SegzyJoe:

@Remii
I quite agree with you, every son of Yorubaland knows that all Yoruba kings pay tribute to Aalafin including Ife. And just as every other Yoruba kingdom got independence from Aalafin, the same way Ife got independence from Oyo.

@OAM4J
Am not trying to downplay the significance of Ife in Yoruba history, infact Ife is the most significant root of the Yoruba race, but the truth remains that untill the early 1950s, the Ooni dynasty  gained ascendancy
during AG government . Pls go and study history very well.

Ti bothers me the way this Ooni has been trying to change history just for selfish reasons. I challenge any Ooni apologist to tell me the name of the Oduduwa son that succeded Oduduwa in Ife.

History has it that the last born Oranmiyan went to war, on his return, Oduduwa had died and the other sons shared everything and gave Yorubaland to Oranmiyan for compensation not realizing it was a strategic mistake to give  land to a warrior, so he lord it over them all and established an kingdom that became  Oyo Empire.

Is it not insultful for Ooni to insinuate that Aalafin is still ruling over a dead empire, infact that man is a disgrace to Yorubaland. Has Ife  and Ooni ever ruled over anybody, attempt to rule Modakeke resulted into bloodbath.

Lets take it one by one.

Oduduwa had one son, Okanbi, with his principal wife, Omonide or Iyamode. Okanbi had seven sons who are Obalades (genuine crowns of Oduduwa) and the sons were

Alaafin of Oyo, Olowu of Owu, Orangun of Ila-orangun, the Owaoboku of Ijeshaland, the Alaketu of Ketu, and two Obas in the Republic of Benin as follows: the Onipopo of Popo and the Onisabe of Sabe. Apart from the seven Obalades, there were other kings who were offsprings of both Okanbi and Oduduwa but were not from either's principal wives. These other nine kings made a total of 16 kings who ruled over the original 16 Yoruba kingdoms. Some historians claim that when Oranmiyan returned from Benin (he didn't go to war), there was no crown for him and he was compensated for this with a bigger kingdom. In truth, Oyo expanded through war starting with Alaafin Sango.

The first Ooni after the death of Oduduwa was Ogun. Ogun was clearly not one of the seven Obalades who had left Ife to start their own kingdoms. But that is not to say that Ogun wasn't a son of Oduduwa or Okanbi through one of the slave wives. I will continue to research this. Personally, I suspect that Ogun was a son of Okanbi or Oduduwa simply because Okanbi and Oduduwa had many sons and could easily have recalled one of them to Ife. That one of the other sons didn't attack Ife and Ogun further lends credence to this point.

isale_gan2:

Kilode to the rescue!  Again.  I love you like ice cream, Peacemaker Soul.     It's a good thing you settled it o jare.  I was in the middle of a long spam-bot worthy response to Katsumoto, who has turned out to be a fake Japanese prince.   Anyway, Kats, my earlier response to Bear goes double for you!  Briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnggg iiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt!

Are you sure you want me to bring it? I have several historical records that supports Eku's position; do you really want me to share? If I do, many more will turn anti-monarchy.

I will introduce my Daikoku MASAMUNE sword to you the next time you mention my heritage.

Katsumoto:

That is precisely my message. Of what relevance is the past military exploit of Oyo? Did it benefit Yoruba people other than some bragging rights? If we are to go with military exploits, then Yoruba should go with Ibadan who managed to defeat the Jihadist at Osogbo rather than Oyo which fell and was sacked. That being said, Yoruba will always have a spiritual connection with Ife and that tops any military/political achievement.

Oyo kingdom did not have army stationed inside Oyo town, so all those armies as Ibadan, Igbon, Ikoyi, Aresa, Oko, Ijaye and so  on, were all subject to Alafin to defended the kingdom. That was why Ibadan had to destroy Ijaye when Kurunmi rebelled against Alafin, and Owu when they rebelled against Ife. Aare Ona Kakanfo, the war generalimo was started by Alaafin Ajagbo as the head of Oyo warriors, the Aare must not stay in the Oyo town with Alaafin,. Emissaries usually sent to wherever the incumbent leaved from there the army  mobilized against target.

The Jihad or Jalumi war did not get to Osogbo, it ended at Inisa by Odo Otin, as matter of fact the name Jalumi came from the Fulanis falling to river unknowingly. The canon marking the end of the war is still at the river bank at Inisa till today. You can google Jalumi or Inisa to confirm.
The Ibadan warriors stationed at Ikirun, about 3 km from Inisa, for some time after the war and it took some agreement between the parties before they left the place, that was the origin of statement  " Ki ogun o to kuro ni Ikirun, oro lo tele" Before warriors left Ikirun, there were some discussions.

Remii:

Oyo kingdom did not have army stationed inside Oyo town, so all those armies as Ibadan, Igbon, Ikoyi, Aresa, Oko, Ijaye and so  on, were all subject to Alafin to defended the kingdom. That was why Ibadan had to destroy Ijaye when Kurunmi rebelled against Alafin, and Owu when they rebelled against Ife. Aare Ona Kakanfo, the war generalimo was started by Alaafin Ajagbo as the head of Oyo warriors, the Aare must not stay in the Oyo town with Alaafin,. Emissaries usually sent to wherever the incumbent leaved from there the army  mobilized against target.

The Jihad or Jalumi war did not get to Osogbo, it ended at Inisa by Odo Otin, as matter of fact the name Jalumi came from the Fulanis falling to river unknowingly. The canon marking the end of the war is still at the river bank at Inisa till today. You can google Jalumi or Inisa to confirm.
The Ibadan warriors stationed at Ikirun, about 3 km from Inisa, for some time after the war and it took some agreement between the parties before they left the place, that was the origin of statement  " Ki ogun o to kuro ni Ikirun, oro lo tele" Before warriors left Ikirun, there were some discussions.

I don't get your point. Are you insinuating that the Ibadan empire was in fact an extension of the Oyo empire? If that is what you are insinuating, then you are wrong. Also, the final battle with the Fulani jihadists was at Osogbo in 1840. The Ibadan Expansionist Wars occured between 1840 - 1878. In that time, virtually all the Oyo dominated areas such as the Ife Kingdom, Akoko, Ekiti, the Ijesha Kingdom, and Yagbe, came under what has been called The Ibadan Empire from which the Fulani invaders had been driven out

See Professor Akinjogbin in his "Wars in Yorubaland, 1793 - 1893: An analytical categorisation"

Ibadan fought Oyo (well remnants of it) between 1859 and 1862 over two issues; the succession of Alaafin Atiba by Alaafin Adelu in 1858. Adelu wasn't recognised by Kurunmi (the Aare Ona kakanfo) but was recognised by Ibadan. Secondly, they had to decide who was the strongest in military terms. Kurunmi lost the war, ijaiye was annexed to Ibadan, and the Alaafin was exposed to action from Ibadan.

See Professor Bolanle Awe's "The Rise of the Ibadan Empire".

See S.A. Akintoye's "Revolution and Power Politics."

I suspect that your account is not different from mine but most historians agree that Ibadan was an empire in its own right and not a tributary of Oyo as you are alluding.

there was no ibadan empire (per se) because the city itself was founded ( or became strategically important) in the 19th century.

it used to be a war camp and besides, the original inhabitants were egba people who then moved (or were forced to move) further south.

till today, there's still some acrimony between the two sides.

oyo had standing armies in different areas and ibadan was one of then- possibly the most principal.

will look into all this later.

Katsumoto:

I don't get your point. Are you insinuating that the Ibadan empire was in fact an extension of the Oyo empire? If that is what you are insinuating, then you are wrong. Also, the final battle with the Fulani jihadists was at Osogbo in 1840. The Ibadan Expansionist Wars occured between 1840 - 1878. In that time, virtually all the Oyo dominated areas such as the Ife Kingdom, Akoko, Ekiti, the Ijesha Kingdom, and Yagbe, came under what has been called The Ibadan Empire from which the Fulani invaders had been driven out

See Professor Akinjogbin in his "Wars in Yorubaland, 1793 - 1893: An analytical categorisation"

Ibadan fought Oyo (well remnants of it) between 1859 and 1862 over two issues; the succession of Alaafin Atiba by Alaafin Adelu in 1858. Adelu wasn't recognised by Kurunmi (the Aare Ona kakanfo) but was recognised by Ibadan. Secondly, they had to decide who was the strongest in military terms. Kurunmi lost the war, ijaiye was annexed to Ibadan, and the Alaafin was exposed to action from Ibadan.

See Professor Bolanle Awe's "The Rise of the Ibadan Empire".

See S.A. Akintoye's "Revolution and Power Politics."

I suspect that your account is not different from mine but most historians agree that Ibadan was an empire in its own right and not a tributary of Oyo as you are alluding.

Do you mean, MILITARISM AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN NINETEENTH CENTURY YORUBA COUNTRY: THE IBADAN EXAMPLE
BY BQLANLE AWE ?

Ibadan came into existence when bands of Yoruba renegades began settling in the area towards the end of the 18 th century, attracted by its strategic location between the forests and the plains. As the community of settlers began to increase in numbers, it spread in area as well. By the end of 1829 the Yoruba military had set up a major base in Ibadan. It expanded even further when refugees began arriving in large numbers from northern Oyo following raids by Fulani warriors.

http://fibsu.org/HomeHistoryofIbadan.htm


people displaced by the fulani wars and internal attacks, fled to ibadan.

tpia@:

there was no ibadan empire (per se) because the city itself was founded in the 19th century.

it was originally a war camp and besides, the original inhabitants were egba people who then moved (or were forced to move) further south.

till today, there's still some acrimony between the two sides.

There was an Ibadan empire as far as eminent Yoruba historians are concerned. The issue most people have with that is because Ibadan wasn't ruled by royal blood. But it was an empire for several reasons
1. It didn't take instructions from anyone
2. It didn't pay tributes to anyone
3. It waged war to achieve its own objectives
4. A city or empire can be founded at any time. Empires rise and fall all the time
5. After the defeat of Kurunmi, Oyo did not stand up to Ibadan again.

The rise of Ibadan after the fall of Oyo is also captured in the following books:
1. J.F. Ade Ajayi and R. Smith: Yoruba Warfare
2. Samuel Johnson: History of the Yorubas

zstranger:

  Do you mean, MILITARISM  AND  ECONOMIC  DEVELOPMENT  IN NINETEENTH  CENTURY  YORUBA  COUNTRY: THE  IBADAN  EXAMPLE
BY  BQLANLE  AWE ?

No, that was a Ph.D thesis at Oxford in the 60s.

tpia@:

Ibadan came into existence when bands of Yoruba renegades began settling in the area towards the end of the 18 th century, attracted by its strategic location between the forests and the plains. As the community of settlers began to increase in numbers, it spread in area as well. By the end of 1829 the Yoruba military had set up a major base in Ibadan. It expanded even further when refugees began arriving in large numbers from northern Oyo following raids by Fulani warriors.

http://fibsu.org/HomeHistoryofIbadan.htm
people displaced by the fulani wars and internal attacks, fled to ibadan.

You should be careful qouting sources that state Yoruba army. There was no Yoruba army; most Yoruba states had their own Armies.

Katsumoto:

There was an Ibadan empire as far as eminent Yoruba historians are concerned. The issue most people have with that is because Ibadan wasn't ruled by royal blood. But it was an empire for several reasons
1. It didn't take instructions from anyone
2. It didn't pay tributes to anyone
3. It waged war to achieve its own objectives
4. A city or empire can be founded at any time. Empires rise and fall all the time
5. After the defeat of Kurunmi, Oyo did not stand up to Ibadan again.

The rise of Ibadan after the fall of Oyo is also captured in the following books:
1. J.F. Ade Ajayi and R. Smith: Yoruba Warfare
2. Samuel Johnson: History of the Yorubas

^^ what you're describing is the collapse of the oyo empire.

it wasnt only ibadan that got semi-autonomy then. Many other kingdoms and areas did as well.

eg abeokuta, dahomey, etc all stopped paying tribute as soon as they saw oyo had been weakened.

tpia@:




^^ what you're describing is the collapse of the oyo empire.

it wasnt only ibadan that got semi-autonomy then. Many other kingdoms and areas did as well.

eg abeokuta, dahomey, etc all stopped paying tribute as soon as they saw oyo had been weakened.

But that doesn't mean there wasn't an Ibadan Empire. That everyone stopped paying tribute to Oyo doesn't preclude the rise of another powerhouse. For much of the 19th Century, the Egba and Ijebu assumed that Ibadan would attack them but fortunately for them, Ibadan was concerned firstly with the the Fulani and then secondly with Ekiti and Ijesha under Ogedengbe Agbogungboro in the Kiriji wars.

if a victor had emerged from the kiriji or ekitiparapo wars perhaps, oyo might not have been the last yoruba empire. Or might have retained its position as the leading one. But the war was fought to a standstill and no clear victor or vanquished emerged from all the interethnic fighting.

Ibadan sacked many Ado communities in 1873 and made a huge haul of prisoners of war and other captives who eventually settled in Iwo, Ibadan and some Remo towns such as Iperu and Makun Sagamu. However, Ado communities especially the mother town offset part of their losses with a large number of slaves and prisoners of war from Owo, Ose and Akoko.

http://ado.ekiti.com/

Katsumoto:

But that doesn't mean there wasn't an Ibadan Empire. That everyone stopped paying tribute to Oyo doesn't preclude the rise of another powerhouse. For much of the 19th Century, the Egba and Ijebu assumed that Ibadan would attack them but fortunately for them, Ibadan was concerned firstly with the the Fulani and then secondly with Ekiti and Ijesha under Ogedengbe Agbogungboro in the Kiriji wars.

they were all fighting over control of the slave and trade routes.

Ibadan stopped the fulani advance, which was most likely the reason why the camp was created in the first place.
(ie to deter or fight the fulani).

i'll look into your posts but to the best of my knowledge, ibadan did not necessarily succeed oyo.

tpia@:

if a victor had emerged from the kiriji or ekitiparapo wars perhaps, oyo might not have been the last yoruba empire. Or might have retained its position as the leading one. But the war was fought to a standstill and no clear victor or vanquished emerged from all the interethnic fighting.

http://ado.ekiti.com/

So if we use the logic that there was no clear winner in the Kiriji wars, consequently Ibadan can not be termed an empire then we can conclude that Rome was also not an empire since it didn't win all wars. Rome even had to build several walls to keep out the marauding vikings. The English didn't have an empire since it lost to the Americans and the Spanish didn't have an empire since it lost the Anglo-Spanish war and its armada in the process.

The major Yoruba state in the 19th century was Ibadan; this can not be disputed.

^^ we're on different pages.



ibadan was a war outpost of the oyo empire which grew into a city due to the influx of war refugees who were fleeing the fulani advance in the north, as well as interethnic fighting.

after the oyo empire fell, ibadan, which had a lot of control over the trade routes between lagos, ijebu and other northward routes, became a major player in the civil wars that ravaged the southwest.

that's it in a nutshell because the actual history is much longer and ideally should take up lots of pages since these things arent black and white like that.


suffice it to say, any collapse of any kingdom usually results in various struggles for supremacy by the different groups that make up that kingdom.

civil wars, etc.

however, if you have any links to your info, kindly share .

Too many versions of history but one fact remain constant: The Oyo Empire collapsed!

The Ooni is right to have pointed out to the Alaafin that the power he is trying to wield had long been gone. Lets look at it this way: You coerce somebody into servitude and then you die and that person is set free. Then years later, your grandson surfaces and wants to claim lordship over the children of the people that had been set free after your death, the people who were under your authority only because you harassed and maimed them to accept that status.

Everything that has a beginning would definitely have an end. Those towns were coerced into Oyo Empire by force and that came to an end when Oyo Empire collapsed. It was not supposed to be for eternity. They have been independent of Oyo before the colonial masters came.

Alaafin should wake up from his slumber and accept the reality that Oyo Empire is now history. If he is claiming superiority over Soun of Ogbomoso, he cannot do same over Olubadan because Ibadan never took orders from Oyo in history. Alaafin should stop excercising the power supposedly derived from a dead empire.

^And do you know of any empire that didnt collapse in the whole of africa during, before or after that period of time?

@Katsumoto,
I appreciate your sense of history about the Okanbi and other sons of Okanbi who were the main royal family of Yorubaland as you ve stated above which I quite agree with you, but what I find funny is your attempt to research an established fact of history about the possibility of Ogun being a son of Oduduwa or Okanbi. For any Yoruba historian, the seven sons of Okanbi as you listed above can not be in doubt, but as for Ogun, no established history has ever linked Ogun to Oduduwa or Okanbi, I tsnad to be proved wrong.

Again, Oyo camps were all over Yorubaland, as someone mentioned above, places like Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin, Ikoyi, Ijaoye, Ede, etc , this to protect the royal family just like the Romans, again to guide against ambitious heir to the throne (Aremo), the day Aalafin died, that same day the first son of Aalafin must die, it therefore becomes his interest the the Aalafin stays alive, these are two main mechanism to check ambitious first son and the Aare Ona kakanfo. Unfortunately, Afonja was from the royal family and he was made Aare, he eventually rebelled which was the begining of the fall of Oyo empire. It was the Ibadan warriors that defended Oyo Emprire from tthe Fulanis.

My concern here is the attempt to promote Ooni or equal Ooni to aalafin in Yoruba land, not even the other royal houses have ever equate themselves with Aalafin except Ooni on the auspices of being thr root of the Yoruba race, but we know quite well that none of the Okanbi sons stayed back in Ife, they all went out to to establish a domain for themselves.

OAM4J:


Is that your way of saying hi to your baby father?

Shush joo I am eyeing some pipu on this thread and as far as they are concerned, I am a new chassis fagin

Ileke-IdI:

Anytime I read of Ekiti in one of those historical stories, I just feel so bubbly inside

Even tho the sate is less than 30 years old.

Quit derailing this thread gaddemmit Insolent and impudent Ile-Ife the source and fountain of knowledge and Oshi Ekiti should never be mentioned in the same section, talkless of the same thread


Now where is that my report to Moderator button sef Someone is gonna get it today, that would teach her

SegzyJoe:

@Katsumoto,
I appreciate your sense of history about the Okanbi and other sons of Okanbi who were the main royal family of Yorubaland as you ve stated above which I quite agree with you, but what I find funny is your attempt to research an established fact of history about the possibility of Ogun being a son of Oduduwa or Okanbi. For any Yoruba historian, the seven sons of Okanbi as you listed above can not be in doubt, but as for Ogun, no established history has ever linked Ogun to Oduduwa or Okanbi, I tsnad to be proved wrong.

Again, Oyo camps were all over Yorubaland, as someone mentioned above, places like Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin, Ikoyi, Ijaoye, Ede, etc , this to protect the royal family just like the Romans, again to guide against ambitious heir to the throne (Aremo), the day Aalafin died, that same day the first son of Aalafin must die, it therefore becomes his interest the the Aalafin stays alive, these are two main mechanism to check ambitious first son and the Aare Ona kakanfo. Unfortunately, Afonja was from the royal family and he was made Aare, he eventually rebelled which was the begining of the fall of Oyo empire. It was the Ibadan warriors that defended Oyo Emprire from tthe Fulanis.

My concern here is the attempt to promote Ooni or equal Ooni to aalafin in Yoruba land, not even the other royal houses have ever equate themselves with Aalafin except Ooni on the auspices of  being thr root of the Yoruba               race, but we know quite well that none of the Okanbi sons stayed back in Ife, they all went out to   to establish  a domain for themselves.

I didn't state categorically that Ogun was a son of Oduduwa or Okanbi; I deduced that he may have been a son on the basis that Okanbi had ONLY SEVEN sons but yet Oduduwa's sons founded 16 kingdoms. There were more kingdoms than sons. Just as I can't CURRENTLY prove that Ogun was a son, so also you can't prove that he wasn't a son.

You are free to keep promoting the supremacy of the Alaafin but as it evident to most analysts or historians, that supremacy ended with the collapse of the Oyo empire. That you were able to beat me up at one point but can no longer do so does not mean I must respect you for ever. I accept the post below.

X-factoria:

Too many versions of history but one fact remain constant: The Oyo Empire collapsed!

The Ooni is right to have pointed out to the Alaafin that the power he is trying to wield had long been gone. Lets look at it this way: You coerce somebody into servitude and then you die and that person is set free. Then years later, your grandson surfaces and wants to claim lordship over the children of the people that had been set free after your death, the people who were under your authority only because you harassed and maimed them to accept that status.

Everything that has a beginning would definitely have an end. Those towns were coerced into Oyo Empire by force and that came to an end when Oyo Empire collapsed. It was not supposed to be for eternity. They have been independent of Oyo before the colonial masters came.

Alaafin should wake up from his slumber and accept the reality that Oyo Empire is now history. If he is claiming superiority over Soun of Ogbomoso, he cannot do same over Olubadan because Ibadan never took orders from Oyo in history. Alaafin should stop excercising the power supposedly derived from a dead empire.

^^^ Who is this Iyalode? You think say I no dey watch you?

Plz dont jelos me, I no dey jelos you okay? If you want, ask God to born you as an Ekiti in your next life or simply marry an Ekiti man jor (I.E Ekt_bear, playmode, etc)

Alaafin should stop all these sole ownership campaign, d world has gone beyond that. Even physically I find it easier to obey ooni than alaafin when d 2 stand together. In stead of trying to replay those good old days of oyo which s not likely now, alaafi should concentrate on his legacy and what d future holds for his domain, how to remain relevant,

Ileke-IdI link=Ile topic=234706.msg8287947#msg8287947 date=1304972802:

^^^ Who is this Iyalode? You think say I no dey watch you?

Plz dont jelos me, I no dey jelos you okay? If you want, ask God to born you as an Ekiti in your next life or simply marry an Ekiti man jor (I.E Ekt_bear, playmode, etc)

Na who be the bushmeat, na who be the hunter, na you dey jolos me, see even your signature recognises abi no be "Ile Ife gbona" you write dia

Katsumoto

i'm just reading through the thread and noticed another misconception.

Ogun was not a son of oduduwa.

tpia@:

Katsumoto

i'm just reading through the thread and noticed another misconception.

Ogun was not a son of oduduwa.

There is still a lot of ambiguity about Oduduwa's origin and his family. Some historians state that Oduduwa had 16 kids while others state that he had 8 OR 1. The question is, whose sons were the other 9 kings that formed Oduduwa's legacy and what was the connection between Oduduwa and Ogun, his successor? In Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yorubas, Ire was founded by Ogundahunsi, son of Ogun. As far as the Onire is concerned, Ogun was also the son of Oduduwa but this account is not supported by Ife.

The fact is that we don't really know, which is a shame.

^^oduduwa's descendants were kings and rulers. ie involved in administration.

ogun is the patron god of blacksmiths, iron working and war. ie skilled labour and weaponry.

obviously, big difference.

not really as ambiguous as it would seem.

Ogun could also be a name. (ex: the pre-coronation name of Oba Ewuare of Benin was Ogun.) Interesting discussion about Oyo and Ibadan above. Learned quite a bit.

tpia@:

^^oduduwa's descendants were kings and rulers. ie involved in administration.

ogun is the patron god of blacksmiths, iron working and war. ie skilled labour and weaponry.

obviously, big difference.

not really as ambiguous as it would seem.

Was Sango, the god of thunder and lightning, not an Alaafin? Ogun was the first Ooni after Oduduwa. This is the list of the 50 Oonis since Oduduwa: Ogun, Osangangan, Obamakin, Ogbogbodirin, Obalufon, Oronmiyan, Ayetise, Lajamisan, Lajodogun, Lafogido, Odidimode Regbesin, Aworokolokun, Ekun, Ajimuda, Gboo-Nijio, Okinlajosin, Adegbalu, Osinkola, Ogbooru, Giesi, Luwoo, Lumobi, Agbedegbede, Ojee-Lokunbirin, Lagunja, Larunka, Ademilu, Omogbogbo, Ajila-Oorun, Adejinle, Olojo, Okiti, Lugbade, Aribiwoso, Osinlade, Adagba, Ojigidiri, Akinmoyero, Gbanlare, Gbegbaaja, Wunmonije, Adegunle Abewelo, Degbinsokun, Oranyigba, Derin Ologbenla, Adelekan Olubuse I, Adekola, Ademiluyi Ajagun, Adesoji Aderemi, and Sijuade Olubuse II.

Please verify this list from any credible source.

In Yoruba mythology, Ogun was the son of Obatala and Oduduwa. He fought and won many battles and was rewarded with the town of Ire. There is a shrine for Ogun at Ire (Ekiti). You have to understand that many of the Yoruba gods and deities were actually human at some point and were deified by worshippers later on.

The information I am presenting is from several books; most of which I have listed already. If you have any source which counters any of these, I am happy to read.

Edit: 50 Oonis

Check the link below for the official list of past Oonis:

http://theooni.org/pastoonis.htm

zstranger:


Check the link below for the official list of past Oonis:

http://theooni.org/pastoonis.htm


There is so much untruths and different versions of the same thing on this thread. People should be careful about telling other people's history.

Dude,

Relax, we are all here to learn. Clearly the list I produced is the same as on that website except a few names are missing. If there is something incorrect with any of the posts and you have the information to dispel, then by all means, share it. You are insinuating that since you are from Ife, you are the only one able to tell Yoruba history accurately.

As this information wasn't recorded but was passed through Oral traditions, there are bound to be a few differences.

As for the misleading information and untruths, I am waiting for you to clear them up.

Katsumoto:

Was Sango, the god of thunder and lightning, not an Alaafin? Ogun was the first Ooni after Oduduwa. This is the list of the 38 Oonis since Oduduwa: Ogun, Osangangan, Obamakin, Ogbogbodirin, Obalufon, Oronmiyan, Ayetise, Lajamisan, Lajodogun, Lafogido, Odidimode Regbesin, Aworokolokun, Ekun, Ajimuda, Gboo-Nijio, Okinlajosin, Adegbalu, Osinkola, Ogbooru, Giesi, Luwoo, Lumobi, Agbedegbede, Ojee-Lokunbirin, Lagunja, Larunka, Ademilu, Omogbogbo, Ajila-Oorun, Adejinle, Olojo, Okiti, Lugbade, Aribiwoso, Osinlade, Adagba, Ojigidiri, Akinmoyero, Gbanlare, Gbegbaaja, Wunmonije, Adegunle Abewelo, Degbinsokun, Oranyigba, Derin Ologbenla, Adelekan Olubuse I, Adekola, Ademiluyi Ajagun, Adesoji Aderemi, and Sijuade Olubuse II.

Please verify this list from any credible source.

In Yoruba mythology, Ogun was the son of Obatala and Oduduwa. He fought and won many battles and was rewarded with the town of Ire. There is a shrine for Ogun at Ire (Ekiti). You have to understand that many of the Yoruba gods and deities were actually human at some point and were deified by worshippers later on.

The information I am presenting is from several books; most of which I have listed already. If you have any source which counters any of these, I am happy to read.

your list is from wiki, and was gotten from ooni.com.

nothing scholarly there.

as per mythology, most of the yoruba legendary figures are twofold- with both a mythological portion and an actual telling of events.

for example, you have oduduwa sending a chicken to spread earth all over the ground- that clearly is mythology aka symbolism, and you'd have to know what the legend is really trying to say. ie what the symbols mean.


not sure if i'm making myself clear.

but in this discussion, we're looking at the factual aspects of what ogun stands for [btw this deity is worshipped in many parts of the west african coast], which are war, metal working, hunting, etc. Not the myths.

clearly, ogun has to do with defence, food production [ from farming instruments made by blacksmiths], etc.

as opposed to the administrative functions of the  non-deified oduduwa sons.

tpia@:

your list is from wiki, and was gotten from ooni.com.

nothing scholarly there.

as per mythology, most of the yoruba legendary figures are twofold- with both a mythological portion and an actual telling of events.

for example, you have oduduwa sending a chicken to spread earth all over the ground- that clearly is mythology aka symbolism, and you'd have to know what the legend is really trying to say. ie what the symbols mean.


not sure if i'm making myself clear.

but in this discussion, we're looking at the factual aspects of what ogun stands for [btw this deity is worshipped in many parts of the west african coast], which are war, metal working, hunting, etc. Not the myths.

clearly, ogun has to do with defence, food production [ from farming instruments made by blacksmiths], etc.

as opposed to the administrative functions of the  non-deified oduduwa sons.

I have never quoted from Wiki; besides one will get the list from someone. All through this debate or any other debate, I haven't tried to pass off another's work as mine. I have quoted all sources.