Timbuktou:


Classic case of sexism. Why can't a woman give birth at 90 if she wanted to? It's not fair, and men are to blame.

Kay17:
@bolded, how do you know that? The feminists clearly show they don't. Do you still think there is no unequal pay in the labour market in Nigeria?

TV01:

Not more, not less, exactly the same? Wanting as an express desire and the effort and timings are totally different. The limiting factors are mostly heavily weighted for females. It's why men can have harems. And children are more biological imperative for women and status for men.

TV01:
Of course we do. We have very little risk and only really have the burden - shared - of provision. Do you know what childbirth can do to a woman? I have a cousin who had 4 by CS. Here the max is 3. I would not have 4 CS' for anything. 1 sef

Yes na. I would love 2 more, 4 sef. But that's effortless for me to say and almost effortless for me to do. One area I don't demand obedience - and wifey has said no more . Truth is, I wouldn't allow it. What even I went through - which was nothing comparitively - I can't go through again. But if I could have multiple wives, why not?

TV01:
^{...and in the West you can have the kids and escape the burden if you are able to act irresponsibly. Some men have 20}

TV01:

Not Nigerian feminists - they love kids and marriage die Our two feminist stalwarts here were both engaged before 20 !

There is no structural or institutionalised pay disparity.


TV

TV01: The whole notion of forced equality is not even the real discussion here. In fact, I feel employment, wages, etc. largely reflect male/female choices and some forms of customary discrimination are actually a good thing.

As Coogar has pointed out for the STEM courses, it's instructive to note the case in medicine. About 60% of female Dr's in the UK leave the profession within 10 years

snakebeat:

I heard some feminist are advocating for the stop of menstruation, they term it as sexism, since men don't menstruate. They say it's either both gender menstruate or both don't. But how they intend to achieve this, is what I don't know.

Perhaps they are already working on a drug that will stop menstrual flow.

*sigh*

Kay17:
Didn't you just say this

TV01:
The whole notion of forced equality is not even the real discussion here. In fact, I feel employment, wages, etc. largely reflect male/female choices and some forms of customary discrimination are actually a good thing.

TV01:
Some forms of customary discrimination made sense and would still be understandable for the overall good. Although I'm not calling for it's re-introduction, or am even certain we could roll back the tide.

TV01:
Customary discrimination was not simply males favoured over females. Customary discrimination is - all things being equal - prefering a married man with kids over a single woman, or a single man. It's women and children first! And it would make sense in the medical profession.

shaybebaby:
Get with the times, the mirena coil in some instances stops the menstrual flow.

shaybebaby:

Get with the times, the mirena coil in some instances stops the menstrual flow.

coogar:


happy fücking days....
i don't longer need to wait 3-5 days every month to do my civic duties to my partner.

TV01:




Yes, I also said this;




Of course no one is fighting cutomary discrimination where it adversely affects men !

TV

TV01:

Quickly pops back in to note that "as ever it favours men"...especially those that want responsibility-free engagement with women. And notice, who bears the risk of any side-effects? Sounds like discrimination to me

TV

bukatyne:
Like I told ESoul, biology is different from perception

bukatyne:
Yes, women have less window for birthing (The chances of an older man birthing a kid with down syndrome/ other health factors are higher) however, a ttcing man does not think of biology . A Yoruba saying ' your child is you breaking even; your grandchild is your profit'. A man is probably thinking I can birth later (biology) after he has had his kids.

bukatyne:
I honestly wonder when men say their wives must have XYZ kids when they are practically contributing minutely to the process

bukatyne:
2 (preferably one of each) is now the new trend in town.

bukatyne:
Different case altogether
Read of a crazy girl who had 15 for about 9 men.
Some people are wack.

Kay17:
So there is unequal pay to the disadvantage of men??

coogar:
i thought ovarian cancer is contagious.
so this mirenia coil still favours the men in the long run? the inventor must be a misogynist - how discriminatory can one be to think of this kinda crazy idea.

shaybebaby:

Get with the times, the mirena coil in some instances stops the menstrual flow.

TV01:

Yes - and how timely a question - men are seriously underpaid relative to women in Tennis . That is not even customary discrimination, as it has no greater purpose. It's "spiteful" discrimination.


TV

TV01:

Presumably it uses powerful chemicals to warp the womens normal bodily - reproductive function?

I once had a girlfriend who insisted on going on the pill. One of the really attractive things about her, was her great skin. That went first. Bad acne. "Small price to pay huh? Afterall, it wasn't on my tab was it? Then I found a prettier one .
TV

shaybebaby:

It was also customary for twin to be butchered in some parts of Nigeria before Mary Slessor changed that. Just because it is customary doesn't not equate to the custom being above reproach.

TV01:

Presumably it uses powerful chemicals to warp the womens normal bodily - reproductive function?

I once had a girlfriend who insisted on going on the pill. One of the really attractive things about her, was her great skin. That went first. Bad acne. "Small price to pay huh? Afterall, it wasn't on my tab was it? Then I found a prettier one .


TV

TV01:
Then I found a prettier one .

TV

TV01:

Pondered, wondered and gon' dered (sorry, best I could do off the cuff !)

Can't be true as a biological imperative. Women have shorter windows and limited opportunity. A womans fertile years are limited relative to a mans. A woman can only be pregnant to delivery once for any 9 month duration.

Men can impregnate as many as they can lie with. The delivery risk (non-existent for men) and post-delivery burden is greater on women also. Simply put, spermatozoa is cheap, the effort minimal, risk low and the burden comparitively light. The male urge is more for "expression", the female for "conception". Nothing to engender fervency in men !

Culturally, it's still women who show more fervency - although men do as well. Men don't have ot work against the clock as much for marriage or children. They handle the pressure better as a result and find more solace/respect in status - apart from marriage.

You need to share - insightfully - on this or take a strike for trolling !

TV

EnlightenedSoul:
We're not talking of so-called limiting factors - although you like to boast of this wider window men supposedly have that they actually don't have by much if you take into account 'trivial' things like, oh IDK, the child's health and mental cognition (here we assume we're working with 'quality' sperm to begin with, regardless of age). We're talking of 'want' here.

EnlightenedSoul:
Men generally not only want children more, they want more of them. Studies show that they even anticipate more happiness at the thought of having them! Women, on the other hand, generally report relatively lower anticipatory levels, and self-report lower levels of happiness and quality of life in literally every area of life after having had said children - even if they don't necessarily express regret in their choices.

EnlightenedSoul:
Due to patriarchal conditioning, which waxes even stronger in the African setting, many men whole-heartedly believe they are worth a not and have failed immeasurably if they cannot successfully produce human trophies to live on after them when they're dead, to serve the function of passing on their genes/family name, etc. Women are brought up to please them in providing these 'heirs', the societal pressure of which to do so remains incredibly immense as well. Reason fertile men are more prone to swiftly divorcing infertile woman, some still having no qualms laying the blame squarely at the woman's feet when he - the man - is the culprit (for fear the spread of the delicate news will spell certain shame, and dawn the beginning of his own 'emasculation' as he sees it).

EnlightenedSoul:
Perhaps oddly understandable in a weird way since men and women do not contribute an even fifty-fifty to the existence of a child. They only contribute fifty-fifty to the chromosomes (and that’s assuming no trisomies, etc).

The woman contributes:

1. 23 chromosomes
2. Mitochondrial DNA
3. The child’s entire first cell - the sperm does not survive fertilization
4. Forty weeks’ gestation
5. And for those who breastfeed, the child’s first nourishment for the next several months to a year/two after birth.

The man contributes:

1. 23 chromosomes

Child-rearing too is generally left largely to the woman, motherhood being the "crown of her glory". Fatherhood? Not so much. Traditionally, it's been rather coldly attributed to (in order of importance):

1) His ability to sire - the more the better as a sure sign of virility (= prowess = manliness). Reason it would be of no surprise if the aforementioned irresponsible man with 20 kids on federal assistance were to BOAST of having fathered his entire ghetto without the intention of having anything to do with them in any way/shape/form.

2) His ability to fund - explicable.

3) The hard disciplinarian - starring as stern step-in for the 'primary' caregiver.

And then, lastly, pulling from my own experiences, how unrealistically early men tend to express their desire for children, leaving me to...

...wondering how the heck that premature bomb crept it's way into a casual conversation? This included, but was not limited to the occasional wistful interjection/speech on what they expected/wanted of their imaginary future children.

EnlightenedSoul:

Men want children more, because society has made it their highest-most function within the patriarchal dynamic. Simply put, a man is what he can put forth, i.e, produce. It's almost as if their very claim to manhood hangs in the balance!

EnlightenedSoul:


We're not talking of so-called limiting factors - although you like to boast of this wider window men supposedly have that they actually don't have by much if you take into account 'trivial' things like, oh IDK, the child's health and mental cognition (here we assume we're working with 'quality' sperm to begin with, regardless of age). We're talking of 'want' here.

Men generally not only want children more, they want more of them. Studies show that they even anticipate more happiness at the thought of having them! Women, on the other hand, generally report relatively lower anticipatory levels, and self-report lower levels of happiness and quality of life in literally every area of life after having had said children - even if they don't necessarily express regret in their choices.

Due to patriarchal conditioning, which waxes even stronger in the African setting, many men whole-heartedly believe they are worth a not and have failed immeasurably if they cannot successfully produce human trophies to live on after them when they're dead, to serve the function of passing on their genes/family name, etc. Women are brought up to please them in providing these 'heirs', the societal pressure of which to do so remains incredibly immense as well. Reason fertile men are more prone to swiftly divorcing infertile woman, some still having no qualms laying the blame squarely at the woman's feet when he - the man - is the culprit (for fear the spread of the delicate news will spell certain shame, and dawn the beginning of his own 'emasculation' as he sees it).

Perhaps oddly understandable in a weird way since men and women do not contribute an even fifty-fifty to the existence of a child. They only contribute fifty-fifty to the chromosomes (and that’s assuming no trisomies, etc).

The woman contributes:

1. 23 chromosomes
2. Mitochondrial DNA
3. The child’s entire first cell - the sperm does not survive fertilization
4. Forty weeks’ gestation
5. And for those who breastfeed, the child’s first nourishment for the next several months to a year/two after birth.

The man contributes:

1. 23 chromosomes

Child-rearing too is generally left largely to the woman, motherhood being the "crown of her glory". Fatherhood? Not so much. Traditionally, it's been rather coldly attributed to (in order of importance):

1) His ability to sire - the more the better as a sure sign of virility (= prowess = manliness). Reason it would be of no surprise if the aforementioned irresponsible man with 20 kids on federal assistance were to BOAST of having fathered his entire ghetto without the intention of having anything to do with them in any way/shape/form.

2) His ability to fund - explicable.

3) The hard disciplinarian - starring as stern step-in for the 'primary' caregiver.

And then, lastly, pulling from my own experiences, how unrealistically early men tend to express their desire for children, leaving me to...

...wondering how the heck that premature bomb crept it's way into a casual conversation? This included, but was not limited to the occasional wistful interjection/speech on what they expected/wanted of their imaginary future children.

Men want children more, because society has made it their highest-most function within the patriarchal dynamic. Simply put, a man is what he can put forth, i.e, produce. It's almost as if their very claim to manhood hangs in the balance!

njokusboy:
Women also start fantasising about children as soon as they are married

coogar:

in other words, you are the inferior gender.

ApexTitan:


Pardon me, is Kay17 female?

FrancisTony:

All thanks to UyiIrediia, AmanfromMars/Muskeeto and Logicboy.

I usually stay away from this topic because its a very difficult topic to discuss without it becoming a male vs female bashing fest
Op of you really want mature discussions on your thread, you may want to change your title to something less confrontational.

I live in the west and here when a feminist talks I totally understand what she is saying and fighting for. They follow up with actions and are very passionate about the things that they fight and campaign for . . which is womens rights. Not one right, not two rights or rights in just some areas . . .they fight for rights in all areas that concern women.

They fight for things such as pay, against the glass ceiling, discrimination, for childcare support, against domestic violence, laws that marginalise women and a whole heap of other things. They go out in the rain and run marathons for their cause, they go to TV stations and eloquently pass accross their views, they sign petitions and obtain thousands of signatures and march down to Downing street. They have a strategy, they know what they want and they go for it.

I dont see much of that in Nigeria. I may be wrong but the flavour of the Nigerian feminist seems to only be within relationships. Howvever relationships are really built on the foundation of cultural and for those who have a religion, religious beleifs as well.
The most rugged of Nigerian feminists will not refuse to cook if her MIL comes visiting just becasue she cooked yesterday and its hubbys turn to cook today.

Some MIL's are more dangerous to the marriage than the man himself.
Its the culture that needs to be tweaked and old things that dont work are the things that need to be done away with
Some pastors have sent women to their grave with the sit and endure advise to a woman who is being abused.
This is cultural and religious advise gone wrong.

Until the Nigerian feminist embraces the "whole thing" and not just bits, they wont wont get much support and they wont be taken seriously.
Go to the grassroots, empower women, send them to school, open shelters for those suffering domestic violence, be out there fighting for the rights of women, lobby govt to pass laws to protect women and so on.

I am all for the rights of women and equal oppourtunities in all areas not just some areas. I should earn the same my male collegues are earning and if I want to retire at the same age as my male collegues then I should be able to.

FrancisTony:
To me, what I understood this to be isn't "men versus women" bash fest but many insecured men on this forum, made it to seem so.

Well, the name "feminism" might not sound cool though "women right activism would have been better".

Now, let me educate you where women are marginalised though it depends on the individuals, anyway.

1) Why would a woman be pestered and called all different sorts of names just because she decided to remain single? but different when it comes to a man. Isn't it marginalisation?
A husband and wife had mutual understanding/agreement on certain things, and some men whom it didn't concern starts telling you how she's a 21st century Jezebel bossing her husband around.

2) You committed the same gender discrimination crime in your original post. Why blaming those divorced American women you listed^^^, instead of finding out what caused the hiatus(probably, their husband), but you lumped the blame on them as sexists would always do.
Again, Kim Kardashian and her mother Kris Jenner has never associated theirselves as a feminist(infact they are anti-feminist).
Kim has divorced twice...
Kris has divorced once....
Lady gaga is also a known anti-feminist and is she having a fufilled life?

3) Why do whenever a female err, her gender would be emphasized on, instead of who did it?.
For instance, when a woman commit a crime, you will hear "women sha" meanwhile, men are expert in that crime.

I guess all these, are not gender discrimination.
Anyhoo, you can't deny gender discrimination.
Like Bisi Fayemi-Adeleye , Ekiti state first lady et al who associate herself as feminist and married. She's carrying out female child rights empowerment.
By the way, No government has taken care of anything about protecting female child rights in Nigeria like you opined; infact they are in support of Child marriage known as yerimarisation. Non-governmental organisation is the sole helper.

Lastly, you claim Nigerian feminists are pseudo, but many, still go ahead to blame feminism for destrowing marriages in Nigeria. Confused much!

Men and women are darn equal.
Men and women represents human and even the holy bible said that God made all things equally in His image.

Are they the same? NO? Infact, no two humans are the same whether male or female.