well welll hmmm since these poof are down in longin this thread

the great superman aka ikeyman coming through; we ve been compelled to speak out

Alluding one's sexual development opp inheritance preference to animal behaviour hmmm not too sure if a  lot of animal right associations will agree with that!!

why dnt yall gay also beat up ur gay patner when he refuses sex advance just like the animals do !!

right lets go

nonesense!!!

bawomolo:

You obviously don't understand the concept of indecent exposure, nudists can't hang around in public due to the presence of kids just like you can't have sex in a public place.  It's a form of etiquette and not discrimination. nudists aren't screaming to walk around in public places anyway.

What about indecent sexual behaviours that is homosexuality? You think we want our kids to see that? They are not having sex, they just want to work around the way they were born. At least we can prove they were born that way.

And actually there were some 3 nudist that were campaining for their right to walk around naked in the UK for years. The last I heard of them was about 6 years ago, one prominent one was a bearded guy from coventry that was always protesting in front of the Old Bailey high court and always getting arrested.

If I can find them on Youtube, I will post. This is the 21st century, it is easy to get evidence.

bawomolo:

This is laughable considering you aren't a biologist or another form of scientist.  No scientists that researches animal homosexuality considers bisexuality an irrelevant phenomenon.

No credible biologist disputes homosexuality doesn't exist in Animals.

I do believe a lot of biologists do not accept these thesis as fact that is why they are still proposals. And with the way opposing views about the non-acceptability of homosexuality is suppressed in the West, don't be too surprised you are not seeing this view. Take the silent protest of not accepting it as the disputation.

Do you want them to be thrown out when gay protesters storm the university everyday and try and publicly shame them for publicly and objectively disputing the gay animal proposal? Didn't you hear on Engineer Othello's news clip form youtube that gays protested when female penguins were put in to test the "supposedly" homosexual penguins?

And that gay mafia is what you want me to allow to enter Nigeria? Lai lai!

lol, Aren't you guys tired of arguing? It's clear you're not going to change the way you think about this topic.

Pataki:

How ludicrous.

I expected sound and better arguments to my claims. If you were going to refute my arguments, please back it up with logical conclusions and references. Where have you gotten the figure that population of gays at any point in time is only 10% to the overall population? You have in way shown homosexuality embraces reproduction. Basic fundamental knowledge of biology tells us that one the characteristics of humans is Reproduction. Does homosexuality encourage reproduction?

That you rather meander your arguments to penguins, is most laughable.

Basic fundamental knowledge of biology tells you humans have sex for both reproduction and pleasure.  The population is probably even less than 10% . It's in the range of 2-12%(from the CDC). this can be easily checked.   The question of logic is subjective on the issue of homosexual behavior.  Is the point of every sexual relationship reproduction?

What about indecent sexual behaviours that is homosexuality? You think we want our kids to see that?

i personally don't find homosexual behavior indecent, it's just one of the numerous sexual lifestyles known to man.  Why would we want kids seeing any form of sexual activity? WTF

And actually there were some 3 nudist that were campaining for their right to walk around naked in the UK for years

whew 3 nudists, what a huge sample size. the nudists are invading.

bawomolo:

whew 3 nudists, what a huge sample size. the nudists are invading.

Yep, I forgot to add that there are nudist I have seen interviewed on TV that find it ridiculous that they can only use a colony to express themselves.

But that is by the way, the argument is that why are you using your standard to JUDGE them when they are not harming anybody? Who are you to judge it is indecent to walk around naked? Are you not open-minded? Have they harmed you? What is your business?

bawomolo:

i personally don't find homosexual behavior indecent, it's just one of the numerous sexual lifestyles known to man.  Why would we want kids seeing any form of sexual activity? WTF

I find homosexuality indecent and so does 139 million Nigerians (Note: I dash you 1m in support), so who are you to deny us to ban it in our society and put it in a colony.

I don't want to be explaining to my kids why 2 men are kissing on the street. I don't want my kids to live in an environment where they will see a man dressing and behaving like a woman.

It's true, Nudists are just taking it back to the time before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, Let them do what they like.


Sagamite, no matter how protective you are of your kids, at some point in their life they will see/meet Homosexuals, even if Nigeria bans gay ppl. What are you going to then?

Badriyyah:

Sagamite, no matter how protective you are of your kids, at some point in their life they will see/meet Homosexuals, even if Nigeria bans gay ppl. What are you going to then?

At least I would have limited the exposure.

There wouldn't be any gay pride day.
There wouldn't be men/women hugging and kissing on the road.
There wouldn't be glorification and positivication of homosexuality on local TV.
There wouldn't be education directed to my kids of an alternative family unit that includes only same sex.

Reasonable achievements in the retarded world we live in nowadays.

@ Pataki

whether it is 'deviant' behaviour is not the key thing here. Sagamite has been arguing about how no 'evidence' exists of homosexuality in animals.

When evidence has been provided he is looking for 'exclusive homosexuality' in animals. Most animals are not monogamous - should we now adopt polygamy widely because of that?

No one is saying animal homosexuality is a justification for human homosexuality, but once it exists (call it deviant, unusual, or whatever name) then it cannot be deemed UNNATURAL (since it exists in 'nature' - the world of animals)

By that definition, homosexuality is a natural phenomenon. If it is natural, why would you legislate against it when the two adults are consenting and not inducing others by force?

The talk of animal consent is stupid and diversionary. No one is legislating for animals here.

Sagamite - can you disprove the evidence given on homosexuality in animals?

What evidence?

Sagamite:

What evidence?

Three youtube videos on the previous page - or is that not evidence now?

More scientific evidence from a world renowned University:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/

From male killer whales that ride the dorsal fin of another male to female bonobos that rub their genitals together, the animal kingdom tolerates all kinds of lifestyles.

A first-ever museum display, "Against Nature?," which opened last month at the University of Oslo's Natural History Museum in Norway, presents 51 species of animals exhibiting homosexuality.

"Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," said Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the exhibition.

debosky:

Three youtube videos on the previous page - or is that not evidence now?

More scientific evidence from a world renowned University:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/

From male killer whales that ride the dorsal fin of another male to female bonobos that rub their genitals together, the animal kingdom tolerates all kinds of lifestyles.

A first-ever museum display, "Against Nature?," which opened last month at the University of Oslo's Natural History Museum in Norway, presents 51 species of animals exhibiting homosexuality.

"Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," said Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the exhibition.

Oh!

Let me first say, thank god you are not running again.

1,500 species but yet they can't film it in its entirety?

Another of my favourite:

"Scientists say that homosexual activity among giraffes is, in many cases, more common than heterosexual activity.

But yet they are struggling to put it on tape when Richard Attenborough is taking cameras 2 miles below sea level to see creatures we have not seen before and using micro-cameras to show rodents that burrow underground.

But all this museum has is pictures that they claim are homosexual activities.

So when they went out to investigate homosexuality in animals in the new millenium, they forgot their cameras?

Are they showing exclusively gay animals that have intercourse because that is a strong indication of PREFERENCE? It shows unambigiously the sexual orientation of the animal. You can't beat that in a scientific argument.

So is camera evidence now your problem?

What happened to the three videos posted by bawomolo? What do you have to say to that?

I am puzzled that camera evidence is now the measure for determining the validity of scientific observation.

Sagamite:

Are they showing exclusively gay animals that have intercourse because that is a strong indication of PREFERENCE? It shows unambigiously the sexual orientation of the animal. You can't beat that in a scientific argument.

Why the drive for exclusivity? What relevance does that bring? Is partial homosexuality acceptable to you? Is exclusivity your grouse?

Homosexuality has been proven in animals, even those with ample members of the opposite sex to mate with. I don't see why animals have to be exclusively hetero or otherwise to show an 'unambiguous sexual orientation'

The key statement is thus

"Homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" are terms defined by societal boundaries, invisible in the animal kingdom.

Kindly refute that if you can.

@ debosky,

There are quite some ironical inputs from your posting which I truly find amusing. I would endeavor to posit them out here and seek for further clarifications and as well  throw out the gaff on how homosexuality addresses the Darwinian principle, expecting that within the ambience of scientific knowledge, you could reasonably answer it.

Is it not ironical that you state: ''No one is saying animal homosexuality is a justification for human homosexuality, but once it exists (call it deviant, unusual, or whatever name) then it cannot be deemed UNNATURAL (since it exists in 'nature' - the world of animals)'' and furthermore affirm conclusively that: ''By that definition, homosexuality is a natural phenomenon.'' My question to you therefore, is that: What then is the justification for homosexuality in humans as a natural phenomenon, if animal homosexuality is not a justification for human homosexuality?

I also seek to know from you, how homosexuality addresses one of the fundamental concept of characteristics of humans, which is REPRODUCTION. Does homosexuality allow for reproduction? If it does not, should such an act not be counted as a deviance to the laws of human nature under the scientific umbrella and most importantly under God and further down the line, to the society (Nigeria) under discussion?

debosky:

So is camera evidence now your problem?

What happened to the three videos posted by bawomolo? What do you have to say to that?

I am puzzled that camera evidence is now the measure for determining the validity of scientific observation.

In the world of today, it will make sense to ask for video evidence when it is easily possible rather than just chop what they tell you because they have a Phd attached to their name. Believe me that does not make them geniuses, so be careful with the reverence.

Bawomolo's video showed nothing! One in particular was pathetic (the dog one), the others I just gave him benefit of doubt as it was not clear the sex of the animals. Also I gave him the benefit because due to my research I had read about the bonobos as well and that was his focus.

debosky:

Why the drive for exclusivity? What relevance does that bring? Is partial homosexuality acceptable to you? Is exclusivity your grouse?

Homosexuality has been proven in animals, even those with ample members of the opposite sex to mate with. I don't see why animals have to be exclusively hetero or otherwise to show an 'unambiguous sexual orientation'

The key statement is thus

"Homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" are terms defined by societal boundaries, invisible in the animal kingdom.

Kindly refute that if you can.

1) Because it is an unassailable proof that it is a SEXUAL PREFERENCE, just like gays claim they can not be attracted to the opposite sex.

2) Demonstrating the PREFERENCE also shows that it is NOT LACK OF THINKING abilities of animals. It shows that the gay ones know what they want and turn down what they don't want, hence removing all ambiguities about homosexualities in animals.

3) Showing that only a sub-set demonstrates homosexuality (not all of that specie of animal) will be proof that some were born straight and others gay. Fantastic case for the gay's cause.

Surely you must agree that is a valid scientific approach?

the others I just gave him benefit of doubt as[b] it was not clear the sex of the animals[/b]

dude, come on man

Sagamite:

1) Because it is an unassailable proof that it is a SEXUAL PREFERENCE, just like gays claim they can not be attracted to the opposite sex.

2) Demonstrating the PREFERENCE also shows that it is NOT LACK OF THINKING abilities of animals. It shows that the gay ones know what they want and turn down what they don't want, hence removing all ambiguities about homosexualities in animals.

3) Showing that only a sub-set demonstrates homosexuality (not all of that specie of animal) will be proof that some were born straight and others gay. Fantastic case for the gay's cause.

Surely you must agree that is a valid scientific approach?

I disagree completely. First of all, animal sexual preferences can never and will never be a basis for determining appropriate human behaviour.

You have done your argument serious damage by even pursuing this absurd line of reasoning. For argument's sake, let me answer:

1) Some homosexuals claim to have had sex with others - most do have heterosexual experiences before 'deciding' that they are better off being strictly homosexual. In that case, your theory of exclusivity flies completely out of the window.

In this case, being 'homosexual' is simply a classification - not an accurate depiction of a person's sexual behaviour.

2) How many animals show any 'preference' that isn't hardwired genetically?

Do lions exhibit PREFERENCE to live in the Masai Plains of East Africa instead of Kraals in South Africa How much 'thinking' can we really say goes into animal choices when they are essentially instinctive? Seeking preference would involve getting insight on the thought process and decision making of animals. Without being able to question them and interrogate them, how would you go about seeking evidence of 'choice'?

3) Born straight or gay is not really the issue - the issue is the validity of that form of sexual expression, not the root cause of it.

Based on your previous argument, the mere existence of this same act in 'nature' defeats your argument that it is an invention of the human mind or that it is against 'natural order' given the example of the animals.

The fact that certain animals are carnivores, or they eat their mates or mate with 100 members of the opposite sex cannot and will not ever be a justification for human behaviour. If not, killing fellow humans for meat would be acceptable behaviour.

here in the uk, i have come across gay people once or twice but cant picture them in nigeria.that thing should not be allowed in naija.anyway, if i know my naija well and the people in it, theres no need for panic.c what 'open mindedness' has led us to. . . .considering allowing gay people live openly.lawwd help us.who the hell let them in that building sef

who the hell let a black man like you in the UK sef?

See how it sounds?

what is all this noise about,isnt being gay 100% better than takeing a life, being a ritualist.the act has always being there from the begining,so its not fashion that came with the trend.just because this guys came out open doesnt mean they should be crucify,those at the national assembly castigateing them are not innocent themself, are they not the same guys that sex young guys through the ass for ritual purpose.and turn around to give them contract and buy them cars.so why spite on the inocent that have no harmful intention,i tell you this truth today,leave it or take it.35% of nigerians are gay.but are hideing it to the hilt.but then time shall tell and they shall all come out to your suprise,and dont get shock if that dear,husband,wife, brother,sister,uncle,anty,friend,colegue,boss etc that has always being against gay people all this while was truely gay but hideing.dont ever be shock,for they are everyday people.please never throw stone in a market square ,you might never know who it might hit,it could be your very own.

I am worried by some of the opinions here. As a disclaimer, I am married with two kids so I am in no way gay.

That said, I grew-up in the northern part of Nigeria in the 80's and back then I knew many openly guy people (aka "Dan Zaria"). They lived amongst us without any harassment and went about their business without molestation. Even while in secondary school and university in the 90's, I met many gay people. So, this is clearly not a western concept that have somehow become fashionable.

What worries me is our tolerance level for people that are different (guys, etc) has diminished to the point that we simply want them dead. This wasn't the case in the past. And it seems to be getting worse by the day (read some of the posting here and you would understand what I mean). I don't know why this is the case, but there is something wrong with our society if we somehow in 2008 we now want to start victimizing guy people that have lived with us all along. Yes, maybe guys have become more vocal, but that doesn't warrant heterosexuals wanting them dead. This is a dangerous precedent.

bawomolo

personally don't find homosexual behavior indecent, it's just one of the numerous sexual lifestyles known to man.  Why would we want kids seeing any form of sexual activity? WTF

u are a living nigerian comedian for real!! the fact those ills are norms in ur eyes shouldnt otherwise be so for all of us. In as much as UK is a civil sioceity a lot of families dnt want their kids in anything to do with homosexuals and the child right potection anit too comfortable with ur  driller exhibitance!

so u can sit here and talk till heaven door open homo arent a norm

u can also ask for gay bishop, hey a lot of people wasnt too comfortable with that!

in nigeria? really?

The beauty of a democracy: those in favor should vote for. Those against should say so. Let the majority carry the day. We should all have a say in what society we live in. We (at least a majority) in naija choose to exclude homosexuality for whatever reason - homophobia or religion. That our society is flawed in other areas (divorce, fornication and adultery is rampant in the society AND the church) doesn't mean we should abdicate our rights/desire for a more wholesome (insert your definition) society. We will always argue about where to draw the line - the moment we accept gays as the norm, brother and sister show up, promise not to have kids and then ask you who they are hurting - I vote a man should wait for and stick to only his wife.

Gay people always deny. Why? They talk and shout too loudly against gay community and at the end they are gay.It looks to me, the more you persecute gay folks, the more you shift toward them and identifying your true identity and orientation. But come on people, what is bad in choosing to Bleep differently? It is a matter of choice or hormones misrepresenting and when adults are involved (i.e no force whatsoever) no worries.God knows all, knows us all and He and only He will judge and hand sentences at the end.

The world is already spoiled even if filled with straight folks. I wonder why we still procreate knowing fully well, everyone here faces H & H.Hell and Heaven choice! I just tire oh!

Totally disgusting, how dare them? Do they think Nigeria has become a morally bankrupt nation? Hell no,

sejeh1:

I am worried by some of the opinions here. As a disclaimer, I am married with two kids so I am in no way gay.

That said, I grew-up in the northern part of Nigeria in the 80's and back then I knew many openly guy people (aka "Dan Zaria". They lived amongst us without any harassment and went about their business without molestation. Even while in secondary school and university in the 90's, I met many gay people. So, this is clearly not a western concept that have somehow become fashionable.

What worries me is our tolerance level for people that are different (guys, etc) has diminished to the point that we simply want them dead. This wasn't the case in the past. And it seems to be getting worse by the day (read some of the posting here and you would understand what I mean). I don't know why this is the case, but there is something wrong with our society if we somehow in 2008 we now want to start victimizing guy people that have lived with us all along. Yes, maybe guys have become more vocal, but that doesn't warrant heterosexuals wanting them dead. This is a dangerous precedent.

you see my friend the only dangerous precedent is allowing those gays breathe,cause next thing you hear is brother wanting to do sister and claiming rights to her, father wanting to do daughter and claiming rights that he brought her to this world and some misinformed nairalanders using some silly historical facts to buttress such claims

gasbi2:

what is all this noise about,isnt being gay 100% better than takeing a life, being a ritualist.the act has always being there from the begining,so its not fashion that came with the trend.just because this guys came out open doesnt mean they should be crucify,those at the national assembly castigateing them are not innocent themself, are they not the same guys that sex young guys through the ass for ritual purpose.and turn around to give them contract and buy them cars.so why spite on the inocent that have no harmful intention,i tell you this truth today,leave it or take it.35% of nigerians are gay.but are hideing it to the hilt.but then time shall tell and they shall all come out to your suprise,and dont get shock if that dear,husband,wife, brother,sister,uncle,anty,friend,colegue,boss etc that has always being against gay people all this while was truely gay but hideing.dont ever be shock,for they are everyday people.please never throw stone in a market square ,you might never know who it might hit,it could be your very own.

all you gay people venting your views facking sh*t in the a*s

iam not one wit suprised that it has now boiled down to otherwise sensible people speaking in support of homosexuality all in the name of freedom and sexual preference. Welcome to the new level of insanity!!! my heart goes out to those of us who are still shouting ourselves hoarse that this is an alltime low in human history. needless to say, i will like to see the faces of this our "experts" and "world class psychologists" when one day somebody wakes up and discovers he has a sexual preference for his bingo(dog). I would like to hear what they will say to him.

[/quote] bawomolo March 16, 2009 09:01 PM ( So what do armed robbers and pocket pickers have in common with homosexuals?[quote]

If you can not perceive what the deviants have in common then you are not qualified to engage in this argument. The armed robbers, petty robbers, pocket pickers and homosexuals are all human beings, born by woman and are social deviants.

In addition, armed robber, petty robber and pocket picker could add homosexuality as another life style as few homosexuals could add armed robber, petty thief and pocket picker as secondary life style.

I could not believe that people are still clutching straw with issue of the backwater farmer’s study of farm animal as to normalize homosexuality. Granted that animal would not react to all deviant behaviors of a fellow animal does not retard the fact that human beings do.

In my father’s compound, stood a Mango tree that has become a nesting anchor to Weaver birds. Sometimes I spent 30 minutes to 60 minutes watching the activities of the birds. Believe it or not, most of these birds are born robbers.

Many hardworking birds would fly miles to fetch weaving materials for their nest while few deviants would wait to steal weaving materials from other in plain view of hustling birds.

There was no punishment handed to the stealing birds. Since the community of weaver birds do not punish social deviants like ones that stole from others bird, would human beings stop punishing social deviants such as robber?

People need to get over it that societies have various ways to deal with social deviants.

the world is going to an end, that is just it,

Funny, a few hundred years ago most of you lot here would have been sold into slavery by humans who thought and who still think you are lesser human beings.
The problem is you use the ejectementa written by doltish and thick witted prophets as a yardstick to judge people.

debosky:

who the hell let a black man like you in the UK sef?

See how it sounds?

gay.
well i have the right to live here legally and intend to leave as soon as i can.
all i know is it wont happen in nigeria, state your claim all you want.