musKeeto:

Is eating right/wrong? who are you to call them wrong? Is homosexuality wrong because you do not like it, because you do not understand it?

Is worshiping right/wrong? Who are you to say it's wrong? Is God not in existence because you do not like Him, because you do not understand Him?

musKeeto:


A - Can I rephrase that to say 'Our ability to know right from wrong is evidence of God'? Could you elucidate a bit what this quote means? What is considered right/wrong varies across different numerous tribes/regions around the world. Can this be said to be evidence of multiple Gods? Are all humans born with the same concept/understanding of morality? Note similarity doesn't necessarily mean same.

B - And WHO has claimed nature 'gave' us a conscience?

I believe morality, and in turn conscience, is modelled and shaped by societies/environments one might find himself in.

I get baffled when the idea of conscience makes sense to an atheist . Well as narrated in the Bible, during creation God imprinted into the nature of man His Divine Image, which draws man toward everything that is morally good and averts him from everything that is morally evil. This inner law works through the voice of conscience, which justly is called the voice of God in man. Because it is an integral part of human nature, it is active in all people regardless of their age, race, education, or development.

As you rightly said, right and wrong varies among different regions of the world, But you will agree with me that in the culture and customs of past and present nations, all people, even the most primitive tribes, distinguish between what is good and what is bad, between good man and evil man, between virtue and vice. They are all agreed on this: that the good is worth striving for, that evil be shunned, and that the one deserves praise, the other, blame. Though in individual cases they may not be one in denominating the same thing good or evil, they are nevertheless agreed as to the general principle that good is to be done and evil avoided. The occasional discrepancy in labeling some actions as good or evil seems to come from the particular circumstances in which a given nation develops. It is a universally recognized principle that one should not do to others what he would not wish them to do to him. Vice everywhere seeks to hide itself or put on the mask of virtue at least in the past, Unlike todays world where vice is celebrated.

Now, every human is familiar with his inner voice which on occasion accuses and oppresses him, and on occasion brings him joy. This small subtle voice, an inborn feeling (conscience). Conscience by its nature is a spiritual instinct, which more clearly and quickly differentiates between good and evil than does the mind.

Deep within man there is a consciousness of God and an idea of what is required of him by God. John wrote, “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world” (John 1:9). By this he implied the light of God shines within every person. Paul recognized this phenomenon among heathen, “By this they show that the process of the Law is written in their hearts which is witnessed by their conscience and thoughts, which either punish or justify one another" ” (Rom. 2:15). The conscience of man dwells in the heart, acting as a moral regulator regarding right or wrong.
The main idea implied in the word “conscience” is “a knowing with oneself.” Since memory and thinking operate as a function of the heart, it is the apparent location for the conscience. The heart/personality is the place where God communicates to the individual. However, it is possible for man continually to reject the message of his conscience and render it inoperative (1 Tim. 4:2). An incapacitated consciousness of God is called a seared conscience.

Our personal experience convinces us that this inner voice, called conscience, is not under our control but expresses itself spontaneously in spite of our will. In addition, just as we cannot persuade ourselves that we are full when we are hungry or that we are rested when we are tired, similarly we cannot convince ourselves that our behavior is correct when our conscience tells us otherwise.

In general, conscience is a very sensitive moral evaluator - especially in children and young people, who are still pure and innocent. If we were not stained by sin, we would not need any external guidance, and conscience alone could precisely direct our behavior. The necessity for written law arose from original sin when man, dimmed by passion, failed to hear clearly the inner voice. Even In daily relationships with people, we subconsciously trust the conscience more than written laws and regulations. Indeed, it is impossible to have laws for every imaginable situation and to foresee how to preclude any attempts at breaking them. After all, shrewd people manage to twist and manipulate even the clearest of laws. So we normally hope that conscience, which works inside every person, will compel the person we are dealing with to do what is morally good and just. Once again, Conscience is in-born, even though society and experiences might try to introduce vices to an individual.

musKeeto:

Get a pet. Some animals, especially domesticated ones, have demonstrated ability to tell right from wrong. Read wide.

Domesticated ones, im thinking dogs, cats, goats, rabbits....You need to open your heart to wisdom....

Thoniameek:


Is worshiping right/wrong? Who are you to say it's wrong? Is God not in existence because you do not like Him, because you do not understand Him?

If you want to worship an invisble, all knowing, all mighty cigar packet, it is your choice, your life. Whether the acts of worship are acceptable to El Cigar Packanna is not my business; that's his to determine and you, as a faithful believer, to follow.
For example, El Cigar Packanna might not want you to have sex before the age of 18, might require you bend your ass sideways facing the south at 9am every morning. Your faithful obligation, my comic destination. See...

My point is there is no proof that human morality required any external influence. But we've seen morality and our sense of whats considered wrong/right change and evolve over the years.

And tbh dear, I do not hate your God. I can not stoop so low. He reminds me of our ancient past. Uncultured, cruel, petty, a psychopath.

winner01:
Domesticated ones, im thinking dogs, cats, goats, rabbits....You need to open your heart to wisdom....

The wisdom from your old storybook?

dalaman:


Animals don't have conscience according to you ? Go and study.

study what....show me an animal that preserves your food till you return from the kitchen or shut up already.

winner01:
study what....show me an animal that preserves your food till you return from the kitchen or shut up already.

Do you have any idea what conscience is?

winner01:
study what....show me an animal that preserves your food till you return from the kitchen or shut up already.

Preserve my food or it's ( the animal) food?

musKeeto:

Yeah, murdering a bunch of people because of their nationality is the same as having consensual homosexual sex. Why am I not surprised?

Consensual sex you say...

How about paedophilia (if the kid gives consent)
How about beastiality too (at least we do worse things to animals, like killing them)
How about necrophilia (at least the deaceased was consenting before he/she died)

come off it, there is never any justification for evil

musKeeto:

If you want to worship an invisble, all knowing, all mighty cigar packet, it is your choice, your life. Whether the acts of worship are acceptable to El Cigar Packanna is not my business; that's his to determine and you, as a faithful believer, to follow.
For example, El Cigar Packanna might not want you to have sex before the age of 18, might require you bend your ass sideways facing the south at 9am every morning. Your faithful obligation, my comic destination. See...

My point is there is no proof that human morality required any external influence. But we've seen morality and our sense of whats considered wrong/right change and evolve over the years.

And tbh dear, I do not hate your God. I can not stoop so low. He reminds me of our ancient past. Uncultured, cruel, petty, a psychopath.

If you do not hate Him, you would be out of this section already

musKeeto:

The wisdom from your old storybook?

Naah, the wisdom that your conscience demands.

musKeeto:

Do you have any idea what conscience is?

i should ask why you believe that there is any such thing as conscience

dalaman:


Preserve my food or it's ( the animal) food?

Your food!!!
I purposely used an illustration you can relate with..
You conscience tells you to return the money you stole or to preserve your brother's meal in his absence after youve had yours, even if you are still hungry.
Point is conscience makes you do as you will want others to do unto you.
Show me an animal that will preserve your food....
I suggest you shut up from here onwards.

winner01:
If you do not hate Him, you would be out of this section already

Ah, an atheist in the religion section must hate God. Simple explanations suffice.

winner01:
Naah, the wisdom that your conscience demands.

Stop spamming my mentions with empty and completely meaningless response.

musKeeto:

Ah, am atheist in the religion section must hate God. Simple explanations suffice.

Real atheists dont care about God or religion, y'all are just wannabe atheists who hate the christian God because of probably bitter experiences....If not, ill like to see you contending with muslims in islam section.

musKeeto:

Stop spamming my mentions with empty and completely meaningless response.

Words of Wisdom can never make meaning to a Kid. Grow up!!!

winner01:
Your food!!!
I purposely used an illustration you can relate with..
You conscience tells you to return the money you stole or to preserve your brother's meal in his absence after youve had yours, even if you are still hungry.
Point is conscience makes you do as you will want others to do unto you.
Show me an animal that will preserve your food....
I suggest you shut up from here onwards.

An animal can be taught how to do that. Dogs have been taught how to do that an more. Some dogs jump into pools to save their owners when they saw them struggling while drawing.


Below is a video of a dog using its conscience to save someone it saw drowning in a pool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UguKrHTPOs

winner01:
Real atheists dont care about God or religion, y'all are just wannabe atheists who hate the christian God because of probably bitter experiences....If not, ill like to see you contending with muslims in islam section.

Real atheists. thats a new one. Have a happy Sunday. May your God cure you of your myopia. Or at least, protect your kids from it.

dalaman:


An animal can be taught how to do that. Dogs have been taught how to do that an more. Some dogs jump into pools to save their owners when they saw them struggling while drawing.


Below is a video of a dog using its conscience to say someone it saw drawing in a pool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UguKrHTPOs

what do you mean by " a dog using its conscience to say someone it saw drawing in a pool." ........Is this not madness, egbami ......

So with that logic, if i subject or teach my dog from birth to learn how to eat uncooked bloody animal parts, im safe to say my dog can use its "conscience" to eat blood...
Conscience is not learnt or taught, what kind of thing is this
This is the worst unintelligent comment ive ever seen. Congratulations, You are a disgrace to yourself.

musKeeto:

Real atheists. thats a new one. Have a happy Sunday. May your God cure you of your myopia. Or at least, protect your kids from it.

Yeah, only God-haters or Anti-theists can be found in religious section....save your worry for your kids, because you will definately worry.

winner01:
what do you mean by " a dog using its conscience to say someone it saw drawing in a pool." ........Is this not madness, egbami ......

So with that logic, if i subject or teach my dog from birth to learn how to eat uncooked bloody animal parts, im safe to say my dog can use its "conscience" to eat blood...
Conscience is not learnt or taught, what kind of thing is this
This is the worst unintelligent comment ive ever seen. Congratulations, You are a disgrace to yourself.

I meant to say "save someone it saw drowning in a pool"

The dog did it unsolicited. Used its conscience to save its owner when it saw it in danger and in need of help. Other dogs can be taught to do that. Kids are taught that. Their conscience is shaped. Many kids will see food opened and leave it like that. Others will even kick it away if it stands on their way, but they can be taught to close it and keep it for their brother or sister, they will learn and act accordingly.

dalaman:


I meant to say "save someone it saw drowning in a pool"

The dog did it unsolicited. Used its conscience to save its owner when it saw it in danger and in need of help. Other dogs can be taught to do that. Kids are taught that. Their conscience is shaped. Many kids will see food opened and leave it like that. Others will even kick it away if it stands on their way, but they can be taught to close it and keep it for their brother or sister, they will learn and act accordingly.

It did not use its "conscience", it used its ability, fortified by learnt skills.
Animals are directed by their abilities, needs, and learned behaviors, not by a moral code...

musKeeto:

Yeah, murdering a bunch of people because of their nationality is the same as having consensual homosexual sex. Why am I not surprised?

My friend, musKeeto AKA sonoflucifer AKA amanfrommars where commest thou from. Long time.

winner01:
It did not use its "conscience", it used its ability, fortified by learnt skills.
Animals are directed by their abilities, needs, and learned behaviors, not by a moral code...

It used it's own conscience. Animals have their own sense of morality, though it is rudimentary but animals like chimps and Gorillas have been shown to posses and understand morality.

frank317:


My friend, musKeeto AKA sonoflucifer AKA amanfrommars where commest thou from. Long time.

Hehee. I'm fine o. My sonoflucifer experience changed me. People will believe any sort of nonsense.

dalaman:


It used it's own conscience. Animals have their own sense of morality, though it is rudimentary but animals like chimps and Gorillas have been shown to posses and understand morality.

Ok, the same way they told yhu that you evolved from apes shey
Give sensible and logical arguments with credible premises, you're not talking to an atheist.

winner01:
Ok, the same way they told yhu that you evolved from apes shey
Give sensible and logical arguments with credible premises, you're not talking to an atheist.

If your dog steals a meat from your plate, it goes and hides somewhere to eat. Why does it do so? Many dogs put their tails in between their legs when they err, why do they do that? Chimps have been shown to understand and exhibit morality. It has been demonstrated. You have been making baseless assumptions without demonstrating or showing if it's true.

Here is an experiment that was done among some monkeys and it showed that they knew and appreciate morality in their own way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

dalaman:


If your dog steals a meat from your plate, it goes and hides somewhere to eat. Why does it do so? Many dogs put their tails in between their legs when they err, why do they do that? Chimps have been shown to understand and exhibit morality. It has been demonstrated. You have been making baseless assumptions without demonstrating or showing if it's true.

Here is an experiment that was done among some monkeys and it showed that they knew and appreciate morality in their own way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

If you give bread to a poultry, a hen will take a chunk of it and run off somewhere to eat it alone, Does this signify conscience ....
If monkeys "appreciate morality" in their own way, does this mean they can choose between good and evil?
If monkeys "appreciate morality" in their own way, dont you think other animals have ways of communicating in their own ways, Dont bees dance, dont cats purr...Does this mean they have a conscience...
obviously you dont know what conscience means
Go read more and come back with more stupid links.

winner01:
If you give bread to a poultry, a hen will take a chunk of it and run off somewhere to eat it alone, Does this signify conscience ....
If monkeys "appreciate morality" in their own way, does this mean they can choose between good and evil?
If monkeys "appreciate morality" in their own way, dont you think other animals have ways of communicating in their own ways, Dont bees dance, dont cats purr...Does this mean they have a conscience...
obviously you dont know what conscience means
Go read more and come back with more stupid links.

Higher animals like monkeys have been shown to demonstrate and understand morality. You are yet to show evidence that they don't. Instead of denying something that has been established why don't you produce your own study that shows that they don't understand or appreciate rudimentary morality. They have their own conscience. Your dog can see you in distress and offer to help you without being trained, Many dog owners can testify to that.

dalaman:


Higher animals like monkeys have been shown to demonstrate and understand morality. You are yet to show evidence that they don't. Instead of denying something that has been established why don't you produce your own study that shows that they don't understand or appreciate rudimentary morality. They have their own conscience. Your dog can see you in distress and offer to help you without being trained, Many dog owners can testify to that.

Darwin also established that humans developed from apes with "evidence", and i should buy that because......
some Animals communicate in their own way and get more impressive when trained...fact still remains that there is no moral code in animals, but some can be taught to do impressive things. It still does not signify conscience...
You should give your own study not another persons, if you want mine. And kindly extend your study to other animals.

winner01:
Darwin also established that humans developed from apes with "evidence", and i should buy that because......
some Animals communicate in their own way and get more impressive when trained...fact still remains that there is no moral code in animals, but some can be taught to do impressive things. It still does not signify conscience...
You should give your own study not another persons, if you want mine. And kindly extend your study to other animals.

You haven't established that at all. You just said it.