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When your maid becomes the madam. - Family (12) - Nairaland

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by SAMBARRY: 11:42am On Aug 14, 2015
Have a nice day. The last time I checked I was very done with the thread
jnrbayano:


You see why I type very little and straight to the point?

I never justify lack of self-control. The Op too. I only said that a lady who is voluptuous is already sexually attracting.

I also suggested that a wife should not relegate her duties such as cooking for her husband, serving the food to her husband dressing the bed etc to her housemaid the time I said "employing another helper (woman)"

I pointed out what a wise wife does. She prays for her husband and mitigate temptation from the family.

Her foolish counterparts rather bring hell (temptation etc) to their homes.

Good morning.
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Toks2008(m): 11:43am On Aug 14, 2015
daimlerbenz:
It's not the same bro. The maid there in the Bible refers not to househelp. Don't equate both.

Some people can argue o.kai

Are maids not females? or girls? which one be house help wey you join?

man slave
male servant
gate man

all na man

some versions use girl
some maids
and some in the next verses even spelt it out so we are on same page bro.
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by SAMBARRY: 11:43am On Aug 14, 2015
Arijosh:
the thing come dey pain you?
go and ask Google search engine. It will give you befitting answer that are meant for fools like you kiss
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Toks2008(m): 11:50am On Aug 14, 2015
LadyFiona:
I won't lie here. It makes you feel and look gooood that you're being admired but acting on that is where problems lies, especially when you have someone that will be hurt in the process of actualising your obsessions. What I am mean is that it goes both ways for both men and women it is not exclusive to men, Once you got the fond glances/attentions/ flattering and the works from an admirer/coworker that you are not getting from your significant other, you fall flat if you are weak, unfaithful, amoral and a nincompoop.

Fiona this is not about sermon on the mount.

Every married people who have experienced what im implying have all corroborated my stand view.

I practically look away from the rethorical online masturbations of some immature folks here with their name calling and hateful words because that does not change anything.

All the men who have overcome this did same thing by sending the maid away.

My writeups are deep and factual and i will be fooling myself expecting teenagers or the imature at heart to catch the drift.

IF A WIFE ABANDONS HER KITCHEN FOR A MAID THEN SHE SHOULD AS WELL MARRY THE MAID FOR HER HUSBAND.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Arijosh(m): 11:59am On Aug 14, 2015
SAMBARRY:
go and ask Google search engine. It will give you befitting answer that are meant for fools like you kiss
#Shoroniyen....... Manner pls
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by SexyStrawberry(f): 11:59am On Aug 14, 2015
ndidibabe:
I guess you are a full house wife. I'm a banker and I leave home as early as 5am and won't come back till 9pm due to traffic. Now, tell me how I can do without a maid. The mistake most ladies make today is to run after rich men and erase the word 'God fearing' from their dictionary. I'm happy for whom I am today and what my man has turned to be. He wasn't a millionaire when I met him but he was a very good christian . Today, he is rich and he is still very God fearing. We have two maids. The two of them have very big boobs but honestly, my man is too big to be randy.

U know, everyone have their lives to live, the most important thing in this life is to have a humble beginning, I am happy for u, I am not a full house wife, I am not even married yet, but no matter what career I choose in life, I am going to make sure that it doesn't come in BTW me n my family, I will make sure it doesn't keep me away from my kids, I mean I will make sure I won't be a stranger to my kids, when I am married, there are lots of things I could do to make me have time for my family, presently, I am my own boss, and I am doing well in my business, what I am trying to say is, for me, anything that will keep me away from my husband for long period of time, I'll cut it off, I must be around my kids a lot and make sure I cook their meals myself with my very own hands, feed my husband and give him great sex *winks* I can do all these and still be a big business independent woman.
I give kudos to u married female bankers sha, I ain't gonna be no fucking banker when I am married, it best fits for single girls who have no husband to come back home to, if I am a banker and I get married, I QUIT! My family comes first biko.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Toks2008(m): 12:01pm On Aug 14, 2015
wakacome:
@Op how old are you??your point is foolish,childish and pathetic.....if u know u truly feel that employing a full grown maid is the problem then employ a male maid now ...or houseboys no dey??my point is a married man that sleeps with another woman that is not his wife is pathetic and we should condemn it and not try to justify nonsense....ok what about men that slept with their daughter??na the wife u go still blame??what about men that sleeps with small small girls wey never even get bre*ast...na the wife u go still blame abi??ode......or u know dey hear news......

Do not try to justify a man acting like a dog and with no self-control by sleeping with his maid all in the name of temptation.....nonsense...so many kids on Nairaland these days.......am sure if you hear a news that a woman slept with the houseboy you will be quick to call her dog,slut and several names but now you are trying to justify a man sleeping with his maid just because your foolishness and dumb upbringing made you to think men are permitted to act like a dog abi??while women should keep their body....fool!!!!

You see why i had always opined that Seun introduces a question and answer stage to ascertain the psycological state of people before they join nairaland.

I read this unwarranted sarcasm many times and i just realized that this ranter just rewrote exactly the message in the write up.

Whoever you are,dont feel cool that im quoting you cos i usually ignore posts like this.

Im only quoting you as a case study. calm down biko,your post is really an embarassment to you and me as well as intelllectually sound people reading this.

Imbibe the reading culture,learn to read and assimilate rather than ...

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Toks2008(m): 12:06pm On Aug 14, 2015
SexyStrawberry:


U know, everyone have their lives to live, the most important thing in this life is to have a humble beginning, I am happy for u, I am not a full house wife, I am not even married yet, but no matter what career I choose in life, I am going to make sure that it doesn't come in BTW me n my family, I will make sure it doesn't keep me away from my kids, I mean I will make sure I won't be a stranger to my kids, when I am married, there are lots of things I could do to make me have time for my family, presently, I am my own boss, and I am doing well in my business, what I am trying to say is, for me, anything that will keep me away from my husband for long period of time, I'll cut it off, I must be around my kids a lot and make sure I cook their meals myself with my very own hands, feed my husband and give him great sex *winks* I can do all these and still be a big business independent woman.
I give kudos to u married female bankers sha, I ain't gonna be no fucking banker when I am married, it best fits for single girls who have no husband to come back home to, if I am a banker and I get married, I QUIT! My family comes first biko.

You keep blowing my mind and i might consider making a move on you and even if you refuse i believe you are worth the stress. You sound so mature and reasonable.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Nobody: 12:23pm On Aug 14, 2015
cococandy:


A minor can't work for pay legally.
So whoever you're paying to keep her as your maid is exploiting her with your help.
I'm sure you won't like to give your own child out to work as an underage maid to anyone but will encourage others to do so to children of poorer parents who are ignorant and greedy and won't mind using their kids to survive.

The earlier you learn that self control is the way out, the better for you. The solution is not using children as maids. It's for those guys who have minds like yours to learn to control themselves.

I don't know what's all these nonsense one reads here everyday. We are talking of how to move the country forward and you're busy propagating child labor because in your mind all men lack self control. If the ladies insult you guys with that phrase, you will start crying. But here you are lending credence to the generalization that men have no self control. Are all of them like you?

Do you all sleep with your female classmates and female colleagues because you come in contact with them everyday? So a man can't have an adult female employee without thinking of sleeping with her? Do you hope to one day employ people as a boss or will women be out of the question because you don't trust yourself around them?

What's wrong with you self? undecided

This is not one of those topics that one will be like just ignore them they are talking nonsense. You're actually here propagating child labor. An offense for which people serve jail time in saner climes.

Pls stop this nonsense. It's enough.

I'll like to point out here that he speaks for himself and not all men.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Nobody: 12:26pm On Aug 14, 2015
Lol, this dude totally stole my response to some news on NL and is claiming it as his own; proof is in the disjointedness of the whole article and his silly albeit implausible conclusion; next time dude if you must plagiarize, show some class, let people know you're well read and versed in the topic you're discussing, give some kudos to the original author of your quote, it doesn't detract from your intellect as a writer, but shows your honesty and sincerety; that stated, I ain't mad at ya. But bros, how can you conclude that na small pikin better as maid, that na capital child labour things na! What I was aiming at when I posted the plagiarized part of your write up, is that the personal touches that endears madam to her husband shouldn't be left to the maid as it could lead to an emotional redirect. I have always maintained that monogamy was not a biological or evolutionary intent same as homosexuality, these are all human albeit western utopic ideals; if a woman finds a man willing to ignore his natural biological tendency for monogamy, she should never become so lackadaisical to the extent of allowing another woman, maid or not come so close to her husband as to awake biological tendencies which are buried in the shallow depths of his subconscious....enjoy yaself
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by repogirl(f): 12:26pm On Aug 14, 2015
I dont quite agree with the OP.in some aspects of his article but he does make a few strong points.

Men are polygamous by nature is not an excuse for indiscipline. Indiscipline is indiscipline and thats it. angry

A promiscuous man will still sleep with a maid whether she has curves or not, he is attracted to the female species and its not about whether she has certain features or not. angry

That a wife is lacking in her duties doesnt give the man the excuse to now sleep.with the maid...like I said indiscipline is indiscipline! angry

Lastly women please dont trust your husband, instead trust and maintain him to be faithful...do your part so in the end if he fumbles, he wont start pointing his finger at you that you drove him to it...you know thats what men sabi, to place blame on the woman all the time! angry
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by DrGroove(f): 12:29pm On Aug 14, 2015
bluice2:



I completely disagree with you. I stay alone and have had two female maids (24 & 29yrs respectively) that come clean up everyday. One handles the interior and the other takes care of 4 adult dogs (bathing, feeding, cleaning of kernels). Tho they come late mornings and leave evenings, I get to meet them on weekends when am home. I have never for once had to urge nor even the thought of even admiring them nor wanting to sleep with them. They have worked for me 3yrs and counting.
Are you married? Because bachelors can control their sexual urges but married men lack the ability.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by tete7000(m): 12:33pm On Aug 14, 2015
Toks2008:


Ride on pastor preach it.

Oga Ade e don tey wey dem don dey preach say fornication na sin but has it stopped some people from doing it or will it stop even you from falling as an imperfect human?

Oga i don give my life to christ 27years ago and i know that while preaching against sexual sin will help,i also believe that we should flee just as the bible admonishes us so lets leave preaching for now and not take steps that will lead us to temptation.

While I agree with that fact that we have to run from temptation, infact the scripture says' flee from all occasion of sin' my disagreement with your write up is that it posits a man as that who is driven around by his passion and has no iota of self control over himself. In quoting that scripture passage and interpreting it the way you did, you gave a public approval to that idea. However as Christians and most especially when discussing sensitive issues of this nature most especially within a secular forum we have to mind how we use and interpret scripture.
The scripture recognises that man by nature is weak and governed by his flesh but went further to make us realise that someone who has been born of the spirit is a new creature and can no longer have his life ruled by the flesh. Jesus says 'He who lives in you is greater than he who lives in the world'. He taught us to pray 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.' St. Paul teaches that 'where sins abound, grace abounds even more'. Let's take advantage of God's grace and pray constantly that God gives us strength to always overcome our weaknesses. Temptation as long as we live on this side of the divide will assail us day and night but it can never be an excuse for sin. A sin is a sin and it is evil. Blessed are the pure in heart, Jesus said, for they shall see God. Hebrew 10: 26-27 warns:
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Let us be careful with what we inadvertently promote. Plenty of people are around looking for justification for evil they do!
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by An2elect2(f): 12:34pm On Aug 14, 2015
And why should a woman keep a maid in the first place? Is your home of secondary importance that it should be at the mercy of your career?

What is more joyful, nurturing a beautiful, healthy home or chasing imaginative dreams and money?

Yes men should exercise self control, but we should help them too! Underrating the power of our weak flesh over our wills, is tantamount to blindness and self deceit. Don't fool yourself! A wife should flee from the temptation of employing a maid too and face her matrimonial responsibilities! If not, why are you a wife then? Said my own.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by pickabeau1: 12:36pm On Aug 14, 2015
DrGroove:

Are you married? Because bachelors can control their sexual urges but married men lack the ability.

Your hate for married men and men in general is astounding
Who did this to you

Why did u not tell him u were not interested
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Nobody: 12:47pm On Aug 14, 2015
chiibekee:
I think a kid here is a help not a maid. will still be going to school with ur children but the major thing is that the kid must be older than ur own kids so that she will stay with then when they are back from school. That's my opinion though.

The fact that kids have to work to escape poverty shows how messed up the country is.

And the fact that people claim that it is good to employ kids so a man will not get tempted to cheat on his wife says a lot about the country's people and mindset and also points to one of the reasons why the country is the way it is.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Xzbit91: 12:51pm On Aug 14, 2015
Toks2008:


Some guys will always say they are different until they come face to face with the situatiion.

Which man will accept that he has the tendency to cheat on his woman? how many ladies have used that phrase...my man is different...just to realize how myopic they have been.

A man no matter how highly placed can decend so low as ladies put it to sleep with a dirty looking maid if she is allowed to do stuffs that madamm should do and that is the message im passing accross.
You jus dey churn out responses from impossible angles, kudos to you! I like the way you dey handle them with matured and reasonable anwers to potential banana skin situations.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by tete7000(m): 12:53pm On Aug 14, 2015
An2elect2:
And why should a woman keep a maid in the first place? Is your home of secondary importance that it should be at the mercy of your career?

What is more joyful, nurturing a beautiful, healthy home or chasing imaginative dreams and money?

Yes men should exercise self control, but we should help them too! Underrating the power of our weak flesh over our wills, is tantamount to blindness and self deceit. Don't fool yourself! A wife should flee from the temptation of employing a maid too and face her matrimonial responsibilities! If not, why are you a wife then? Said my own.


A randy man is randy not because you keep maid but he is by nature unable to exercise restrain over his libido. If he can sleep with your maid, he also has capacity to sleep with your sister,with your cousin, with a randy aunt and even his mother-in-law if situation arises. People keep maid often time out of necessity rather than out of convenience. If you don't keep maid because of your husband will you also isolate yourself from female family members because of a randy man? Let us call a spade a spade, whoever is that man that can't keep away from her wife maid is not fit to be called a human-being, unfortunately even animals when not on heat have a measure of control over their sexual urge. It is all about self control, a gift God is willing to give anyone who yields his life to Him.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by DrGroove(f): 12:55pm On Aug 14, 2015
pickabeau1:


Your hate for married men and men in general is astounding
Who did this to you

Why did u not tell him u were not interested
Lol..i hate nobody!! Just saying it the way it is!! A bachelor can have a form of sexual discipline,not a man who has a wife.Afterall,wife will do nothing than beg,fast,pray and cry!

1 Like

Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by pickabeau1: 12:56pm On Aug 14, 2015
DrGroove:

Lol..i hate nobody!! Just saying it the way it is!! A bachelor can have a form of sexual discipline,not a man who has a wife.Afterall,wife will do nothing than beg,fast,pray and cry!

Do u intend to marry

Please don't

Your mindset... gosh
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by DrGroove(f): 12:58pm On Aug 14, 2015
pickabeau1:


Do u intend to marry

Please don't

Your mindset... gosh
I am married!

3 Likes

Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by DrGroove(f): 12:59pm On Aug 14, 2015
pickabeau1:


Do u intend to marry

Please don't

Your mindset... gosh
I am married!
Marriage for societal respect and recognition..The "Mrs" title.Nothing more!
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by pickabeau1: 1:05pm On Aug 14, 2015
DrGroove:

I am married!
Marriage for societal respect and recognition..The "Mrs" title.Nothing more!

You forgot to mention kids

Interesting perspective...
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by DrGroove(f): 1:09pm On Aug 14, 2015
pickabeau1:


You forgot to mention kids

Interesting perspective...



No..Kids are welcomed without marriage.These days,it's very common.No biggie!

2 Likes

Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by pickabeau1: 1:09pm On Aug 14, 2015
DrGroove:

No..Kids are welcomed without marriage.These days,it's very common.No biggie!

ok..lol

However your stereotypical views about naija men is really something
Reminds me of Kanwuliea
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by Toks2008(m): 1:11pm On Aug 14, 2015
WafiJoe:


Dude in as much as I like your post, I don't like it when people try to BEND the scripture to any shape to suit their talks/sermon. Here is an NIV translation of the same scripture below:

Proverbs 30:18-19 New International Version (NIV)

18 “There are three things that are too amazing for me,
four that I do not understand:
19 the way of an eagle in the sky,
the way of a snake on a rock,
the way of a ship on the high seas,
and the way of a man with a young woman.

You and I knows that at as the time of old, a young lady is mostly call a maid(en), like we call young girls; "chick" today. So please do not abuse the bible.

I think we should stop this forth and back arguments over the use of biblical words.

A maid in the bible means a young woman, it could also mean a virgin but the bottom line is that it means one thing (lady/girl

I think i get where these arguments are coming from, you all think i actually quoted that verse to buttress the hideous act but you all are wrong and infact i just realized i should have left that place as a woman or young woman as some versions put it but i used the king james version(check it) while you all are quoting another version and bothering me over a no issue.

I guess i would have used this quotation sef that best fits into my write up.

Proverbs 30:21-23
:21Under three things the earth quakes, And under four, it cannot bear up: 22Under a slave when he becomes king, And a fool when he is satisfied with food, 23Under an unloved woman when she gets a husband, And a maidservant when she supplants her mistress.
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by An2elect2(f): 1:22pm On Aug 14, 2015
tete7000:


A randy man is randy not because you keep maid but he is by nature unable to exercise restrain over his libido. If he can sleep with your maid, he also has capacity to sleep with your sister,with your cousin, with a randy aunt and even his mother-in-law if situation arises. People keep maid often time out of necessity rather than out of convenience. If you don't keep maid because of your husband will you also isolate yourself from female family members because of a randy man? Let us call a spade a spade, whoever is that man that can't keep away from her wife maid is not fit to be called a human-being, unfortunately even animals when not on heat have a measure of control over their sexual urge. It is all about self control, a gift God is willing to give anyone who yields his life to Him.

Oh dear, i know a randy man is a randy man. And which man doesn't have the proclivity to be randy? Are you a realist? Are you a Christian? Because reality has proven countless times that humans are evil-inclined and therefore are prone to nefarious acts and the last thing they need is an opportunity to try their sick natures.

No man should stand in the face of sexual temptation and beat his chest that he can overcome it. Your self control here, should be to flee from it. If your hand, will cause you to sin, cut it off. This is a figurative speech and its importance in this matter should not be relegated.

If you have heard of countless tales where men have slept with their maids, you should take precaution and avoid any form of temptation whether you have succumbed to it before or not, because YOU, a sinner, CAN FALL FLAT....VERY FLAT. And i bet you will be surprised because you don't know how bad we can be.

Friend, you are boasting. Maybe one day life will expose you and then you will come to realise how weak you are.

The society is now teaching women wrongly. Why should a woman employ a woman like her to do what she is suppose to do if she values her marital life! At the end of the day, we will end up talking about misplaced values.

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Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by daimlerbenz: 1:23pm On Aug 14, 2015
There is a level of wisdom and understanding required to understand and apply the Bible. I am not the only one who has mentioned that the passage used is wrong. Don't in anyway misinterprete or misapply the Bible if you don't understand it. I can't argue with you. I am correcting you ni.

There is a wide difference with the maid mentioned in quoted verse and handmaiden (see vs 23 of quoted chapter)
Toks2008:


Some people can argue o.kai

Are maids not females? or girls? which one be house help wey you join?

man slave
male servant
gate man

all na man

some versions use girl
some maids
and some in the next verses even spelt it out so we are on same page bro.
Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by ORALL: 1:43pm On Aug 14, 2015
Well it seems most nigeria women want contract marriage....

People marry for different reasons,before I marry a lady I must have been told either by her parents or friends how good she is in home keeping...and one of the qualities I search in lady is her ability to take care of the homes and chores...the reasons marriage is so fucke.d up today is that couples have abandoned their roles in marriage,me marrying you I will let you know right from the start that one of. The reasons of me marrying you is because of your homing keeping skills..should you decide to pursue a career or not that is entirely left to you....now matter how we try to make sure that there is balance in marriage,it won't work,some will definitely have to put up with his/her partners bullshi.t...

I maid doing virtually everything that I love to see my wife do automatically make my wife invalid and I will consider such wife as on-important and might as well make the maid my wife...you know your roles and I know mine...I did not marry you to come home by 8pm and watch telemundo till 12 only for you to wake-up this next morning and off you go leaving me at the mercy of a maid all in the process of pursing a career..and you as well is not my slave..I too have roles to play and works to do..

To all you praying and looking for a contract marriage..the kim k marriage type whereby your husband will be paying you some millions of naira every single year that you spend with him...I pray you find such marriage..

2 Likes

Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by ceecee0703(m): 1:51pm On Aug 14, 2015
Mindfulness:


He could have said it without telling people to employ minors and without claiming that men are unable to resist temptation.

Then I would have agreed with him 100%.

read again he said most men....n besides mehn are moved by what they see no matter who they are. so prevention by what means u deem fit is better

2 Likes

Re: When your maid becomes the madam. by tete7000(m): 2:06pm On Aug 14, 2015
An2elect2:


Oh dear, i know a randy man is a randy man. And which man doesn't have the proclivity to be randy? Are you a realist? Are you a Christian? Because reality has proven countless times that humans are evil-inclined and therefore are prone to nefarious acts and the last thing they need is an opportunity to try their sick natures.

No man should stand in the face of sexual temptation and beat his chest that he can overcome it. Your self control here, should be too flee from it. If your hand, will cause you to sin, cut it off. This is a figurative speech and its importance in this matter should not be relegated.

If you have heard of countless tales where men have slept with their maids, you should take precaution and avoid any form of temptation whether you have succumbed to it before or not, because YOU, a sinner, CAN FALL FLAT....VERY FLAT. And i bet you will be surprised because you don't know how bad we can be.

Friend, you are boasting. Maybe one day life will expose you and then you will come to realise how weak you are.

The society is now teaching women wrongly. Why should a woman employ a woman like her to do what she is suppose to do if she values her marital life! At the end of the day, we will end up talking about misplaced values.


If we live like this we basically will be teaching our male children:' My male child you are weak, it is ok to be weak and it is the duty of the society to ensure that you don't fall into temptation. When they become weak, rape and get condemned into prison then we tell them don't mind the society that condemned you to this fate, it is a wicked society. Or do you suppose weakness will be excuse to exonorate such a weak male child? NO! Our appeal however not save the child from incarceration, will it? Do you think it will, I doubt'
I am a christian and honestly you can't be too sure of how many temptations of this nature I have had to face. When God put the fruit in the garden, have you ever ask yourself why? If you haven't I ll explain it to you. Their can be no faith without temptation. There can be no love proven without an avenue to cheat. It is in face of temptation we prove our loyality to either man or God. Consistently leaving in and resisting temptation is what strengthen our resolve to do good. Show me a person who has never had reason to resist temptation and I ll show you one who has never began to live in reality. Our spiritual journey itself consists of everyday saying NO to the devil and YES to God. Will God remove the temptation from the surface of the earth so that we can have a stress-free journey to heaven? Definitely No, Jesus illustrated this in the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13:24-30. Kindly endeavour to study it.

And you ask me which man has stood in face of temptation and resist it? Did you not read about Joseph in the bible? Yes Joseph, he resisted and God promoted him ultimately because of his choice. You want to mention David I guess? Did God not punish him for the sin? Was any excuse from him tenable before God? Definitely NO. And was the woman actually living in the house with him when he committed the sin? No, meaning a lustful man will always seek occasion to perform his nefarios act whether it is present in the house or not. Only a Godly resolve save man from this sin.
I grow up in a house where house girls mostly matured ones are constantly present, so I don't see any big deal in living with house girls. Living with house girls for me is not an issue and I dont see the difference between it and living with any other female relative. Infact they come in and are seen and respected as part of the family.

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