tpia.:

Any idea why they limited their slave raids to the boundaries of present day Nigeria and simply engaged in "peaceful" trade elsewhere even though the Congo coast to their southeast was a steady and ancient slave depot?

Because there wasn't any need to travel all the way to "Congo coast" ports, when key ports New Calabar and Bonny were next door. Let's not forget that there were also non-Aro slave raiders already in Cameroon, EG, Gabon, the Congo and Angola. That would be like Oyo capturing Igbo slaves.

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tpia.:

ok! I'd like to get more info on this Aro connection in Cameroon but I have another question for now.




Ife has a legend saying Igbos used to attack them and cart away slaves and were only defeated with the help of Moremi, an Ife woman.

Who were these Igbos, and where did they come from?

Ife is nowhere near Igboland even if you include the entire Niger Delta.

Was it not stated that the Igbo in Ife mythology are not related to the Igbo people in southeastern Nigeria, and even if they are, I don't know who they could be, unless at their time they had Igbo people nearer them, I'm guessing this legend takes place centuries before the Atlantic slave trade, no?

ezeagu:

Was it not stated that the Igbo in Ife mythology are not related to the Igbo people in southeastern Nigeria, and even if they are, I don't know who they could be, unless at their time they had Igbo people nearer them, I'm guessing this legend takes place centuries before the Atlantic slave trade, no?

I have no idea when the raids took place, or what the legend means.

here's the story as told in modern form

http://books.google.com/books?id=6TN5bjL-m3gC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=moremi+myth&source=bl&ots=bMnA4I5hUS&sig=AXE03DYHtheUQ0dzvnhx_JdoS5A&hl=en&ei=DNpnSpWGO9_ktgeS9uXECw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

tpia.:

I have no idea when the raids took place, or what the legend means.

here's the story as told in modern form

http://books.google.com/books?id=6TN5bjL-m3gC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=moremi+myth&source=bl&ots=bMnA4I5hUS&sig=AXE03DYHtheUQ0dzvnhx_JdoS5A&hl=en&ei=DNpnSpWGO9_ktgeS9uXECw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

It might be there were some indigenous Igbo people around those areas, but were later driven away by the Yoruba settlers, this would be centuries before the Atlantic slave trade though.

.

Okay, I thought about it. It's not official, but here's what I think: The Igbo had migrated to southern Nigeria much earlier than their Yoruba counterparts. When the Yoruba finally arrived they encountered the Igbo (who had stretched their communities considerebly accross Southern Nigeria) and probably stayed around eachother for a bit, hence the language similarities, then there was probably conflict or the Igbo moved away gradually towards the east, I don't know, it's just a thought.

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tpia.:

any evidence for this?

btw, the people you're saying Yorubas met when they arrived in southern Nigeria(?), most likely werent Igbo at that time.

The aborigines of the area were actually probably Capoid types.

There weren't any Capoid's in West Africa, only Negroids. I have read the history of the Yoruba and Igbo, sources show there is evidence of settlement by the Yoruba in their homelands from the second millennium BC, for the Igbo its the fourth millennium BC! The Igbo were 'made' by waves of migrations apparently.

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tpia.:

@ bolded

says who?

Capoids originated from North Africa and then traveled down to Southern Africa, West is and has always been, as far as research has gone, been inhabited by Negroids, unless you can show me a credible source that says otherwise.

tpia.:

same applies to everyone else anywhere in the world.

Including other Nigerian tribes.

Not everyone, there are unique races e.g aboriginal's.

.

Igbos didnt even have access to the sea and are basically landlocked. Igbos did not have organised Cities and Empires during those time and Bight of Biafra was not in any way referring to Igboland its from Ondo, Delta, Bayelsa, Rivers, Akwa Ibo Cross River and Cameroun also Equitorial Guinea

Most people taken as slaves to the New world were Yorubas that was why their culture and religion dominated among the slaves taken to the NEW WORLD. Check Brazil, Cuba and even US

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dayokanu:

Igbos didnt even have access to the sea and are basically landlocked.

The Igbo have/had a very close tie with the ethnicities around them, these ties are exemplified in the secret societies, such as Ekpe, that is shared with the Igbo, Ibibio, Efik etc. Remember that Opobo is a coastal region founded by an Igbo man, these perceived tensions between the eastern ethnicities today are largely a by product of divide and rule. As you can see this European journal details canoe owners taking them to the 'Eboe country'.

dayokanu:

Igbos did not have organised Cities and Empires during those time

Your right about the Empires, I guess our ancestors weren't power hungry tyrannical rulers, plus our country wasn't united under one feudal monarchy, we were 'democratic', (rugged individualism, made us fit perfectly in America), and for "organised cities", either the cities of Onitsha, Enugu, Owerri, Arochuckwu, Nri etc were sprung up in 1900 by the British, along with their respective monarchs, or your not paying attention to your writing.

dayokanu:

Bight of Biafra was not in any way referring to Igboland its from Ondo, Delta, Bayelsa, Rivers, Akwa Ibo Cross River and Cameroun also Equitorial Guinea

. . . . . . Yeah, but most of the people coming out of its major ports (Calabar, Bonny) were Igbo. . . . . . .

dayokanu:

Most people taken as slaves to the New world were Yorubas

No, most people taken to the new world were from Angola, roughly 5 million were taken and 3 million embarked in the 'New World' colonies. http://slavevoyages.org/tast/assessment/estimates.faces?yearFrom=1501&yearTo=1866

dayokanu:

[Yoruba] culture and religion dominated among the slaves taken to the NEW WORLD. Check Brazil, Cuba and even US

Brazil, Cuba? Yes. United states? No.

tpia.:










conjecture but interesting nonetheless.

I knew it! I don't know if anyone remembers, but I once said that the genetics between the Igbo and the Mbundu are very similar according to geneticists, they're not pygmies, but they're still in West-Central Africa.

Brazil, Cuba? Yes. United states? No.

The people who practise these Yoruba religion in Cuba and Brazil were products of slave trade right?

Read about the village of Oyotunji in South Carolina and tell me any African ethnic group tht has anything similar to this in the US. These are not recent Migrants hope you know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyotunji

http://www.church-of-the-lukumi.org/temujinhist.htm

dayokanu:

The people who practise these Yoruba religion in Cuba and Brazil were products of slave trade right?

Read about the village of Oyotunji in South Carolina and tell me any African ethnic group tht has anything similar to this in the US. These are not recent Migrants hope you know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyotunji

http://www.church-of-the-lukumi.org/temujinhist.htm

Oyotunji African Village is a village located near Sheldon, Beaufort County, South Carolina that was founded by the late Oba Efuntola Oseijeman Adelabu Adefunmi I in 1970, as part of a "New World Yoruba" initiative.

Now read about a real African landmark in America from the slave era: Ebo landing

Ebo Landing

Ebo Landing (originally Igbo, also Ibo) is a small moment in the historical southem past. The legend that remains is a reminder of a life and the tradgedy of slavery. Women and men from the Ebo tribe were brought from southern Nigeria, in the western part of Africa, to Savannah, Georgia to be auctioned off as slaves. Two families from St. Simons Island, Georgia purchased these slaves and had them shipped to the Island on a ship named Morovia.

The captain's own slave was the first to commit suicide by drowning in Dunbar Creek. Then the Ebo chief began chanting, "The Sea brought me and the Sea will bring me home." There was no questioning the chief's decisions. They all began chanting together. Chained one to the other, they came into port and were lead toward the dock. But, instead of walking onto the bank into a life of slavery, they all turned and followed their chief into the depths of Dunbar Creek. The painting is a representational piece reflecting the several African cultures and people that were affected in the Old South way of life.

Arts and crafts in everyday life are symbols stemming from African religion. This was in every part of their lives, it can be seen in jewelry, the patterns in their clothes, cooking utensils, homes and religious ceremonies. The amber headdress is worn by women in mourning at a death ceremony. The royal touraco feather protects the Swazi from evil. Patterns in the chief's robe has a woven message inspired from a Kente design called Aberewa ben, "He is omnipotent." He carries a staff from the Messiah tribe bearing the hand and gold key which means "God opens all doors." The snake tattoo biting it's own tail is Aido-Wedo, the god which connects the heavens with the waters.

They say the Ebo tribe still haunts the landing and you can hear the chains and their chants "The Sea brought me and the Sea will bring me home."

http://www.glynncounty.com/History_and_Lore/Ebo_Landing/

Your post would have been true but for this important point

The royal touraco feather protects the Swazi from evil. Patterns in the chief's robe has a woven message inspired from a Kente design called Aberewa ben

Why are all the Igbo gods not remembered in slavery Where are the Amadiohas while the Sango, Obatala, Oya and co survived.

Are you telling us that the slaves of igbo descent forgot their gods

he only thing which slaves were differentiated with was their language and their religion and of all African language and Religion Only the Yoruba language and Religion thrived in the New world

Nobody ever mentioned Igbo culture and religion take a look at the article below


http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/diaspora/nworld.html

dayokanu:

Your post would have been true but for this important point

Why are all the Igbo gods not remembered in slavery Where are the Amadiohas while the Sango, Obatala, Oya and co survived.

Are you telling us that the slaves of igbo descent forgot their gods

Nobody ever mentioned Igbo culture and religion

http://books.google.com/books?id=KJZ2JOG8kZAC&pg=PA133&dq=igbo+culture+red+cap

dayokanu:

he only thing which slaves were differentiated with was their language and their religion and of all African language and Religion Only the Yoruba language and Religion thrived in the New world

I've already agreed that Brazil and Cuba were dominated by Yoruba and Kongo (it even said so in your article), but for the US it is the Igbo culture.

The focus for this area of research is on specific language groups that were common in the diaspora: Aja/Fon, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, and Kanuri (Borno). As is now widely known, enslaved Africans were often concentrated in specific places in the diaspora. Enslaved individuals from the Nigerian hinterland are know to have gone to Bahia (Yoruba, Hausa, Nupe), Jamaica (Igbo), St. Domique/Haiti (Aja/Fon, Yoruba, Igbo), Cuba (Yoruba, Aja/Fon), and the USA (Igbo).

http://www.yorku.ca/nhp/areas/ethnic.htm

Language, there are no Yoruba words in African American vernacular because there were very little Yoruba were present and the American slaves were heavily restricted from speaking their language, and practicing their religions. But in the Caribbean Igbo language dominated:

Jamaican Patois contains many loanwords. Primarily these come from English, but are also borrowed from Spanish, Portuguese, Hindi, Arawak and African languages. Examples from African languages include /dopi/ meaning ghost, from the Twi word adope; obeah, also from Twi, meaning a type of African spell-casting or witchcraft (and also used as a popular scapegoat for common woes); /se/ meaning that (in the sense of "he told me that, " = /im tel mi se/), taken from a West African language; the pronoun /unu/, used for the plural form of you, is taken from the Igbo language. Red eboe describes a fair skinned black person because of the reported account of fair skin among the Igbo.[33] Soso meaning only comes from both the Igbo and Yoruba language.[34]

Check the sources on the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaican_(language)

So who were the Igbo gods worshipped in the New World?

I've already agreed that Brazil and Cuba were dominated by Yoruba and Kongo (it even said so in your article), but for the US it is the Igbo culture.

Evidence of Igbo culture in the US not even a mention of Amadioha was made.

Language, there are no Yoruba words in African American vernacular because there were very little Yoruba were present and the American slaves were heavily restricted from speaking their language, and practicing their religions. But in the Caribbean Igbo language dominated:

Do you know Cuba, Haiti are caribean Islands?

Starting in the 16th century, large numbers of Yoruba natives were transported as slaves to the Caribbean and the Americas. They combined beliefs and practices from their Ifa religion with elements of Roman Catholicism to produce the syncretistic religions of Candomblé, Palo Mayombe, Santeria, Vodun, etc. These are now flourishing in the Caribbean, South America and North America, notably in Brazil, Colombia, Cuba, Grenada, the Guyanas, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, St. Kitts, St. Vincent, Tobago, and Trinidad

Cuba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, St Kitts and Vincent are in the Carribean right So tell us where Amadioha is being worshipped in the Americas or anywhere Igbo language is spoken


http://www.religioustolerance.org/ifa.htm

dayokanu:

So who were the Igbo gods worshipped in the New World?

You don't understand Igbo culture. How can somebody worship their communities god (btw we have hundreds of demi-gods) when their not even in their community, e.g the deity of the river Imo. Igbo people believe in a supreme God, and all the other gods are just spirits that manifested into an object or a place or is guardian of something, even when 'praying' to these gods the supreme god is called first, Chineke Chukwu. This is why Christianity suited Igbo people so much (and we were the ones embracing it the most).

Even Kongo gods are not seen in the new world, but their religion is still practiced, these traditional religions are different.

dayokanu:

Evidence of Igbo culture in the US not even a mention of Amadioha was made.

Maybe its to do with the fact that we have hundreds of gods, oh and heres the mention of an Igbo God you've been desperate for me to give you: Ikenga http://books.google.com/books?id=nSOyBs14tHEC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=Igbo+ikenga

And here's Igbo, Kalabari masquerades: http://books.google.com/books?id=vqpoxEl_0_4C&pg=PA182&dq=Jonkonnu+america+igbo

In Cuba as well (Abakua):
http://books.google.com/books?id=FRUgAU2Z2-MC&pg=RA1-PA202&dq=Abakua+igbo

dayokanu:

Do you know Cuba, Haiti are caribean Islands?

I meant to say the British Caribbean.

dayokanu:

Cuba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, St Kitts and Vincent are in the Carribean right So tell us where Amadioha is being worshipped in the Americas or anywhere Igbo language is spoken

I've already given you examples of Igbo words, if you want some more, alright. Even the nickname for Barbados is from the Igbo language:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PmvSk13sIc0C&pg=PA101&dq=bim+barbados+igbo (scroll down)

As I said before:

ezeagu:

I've already agreed that Brazil and Cuba were dominated by Yoruba and Kongo (it even said so in your article), but for the US it is the Igbo culture.

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHATS THE EAST SIDE OBSESSION WITH AMERICANS BEING IGBO I MEAN PURE RUBBISH, IM SURE THEY ARE BUT THEY DONT SPEAK IGBO NOR DO THEY HAVE IGBO NAMES NOR THE SAME TRADITIONAL BELIEFS, YORUBAS ON THE OTHER HAND ONLY ACKNOWLEGDE THOSE IN BRAZIL , CUBA, PUERTO RICO THAT KNOW THIER YORUBA. ALL THE OTHER ARE LOST ESPECIALLY AA'S"


How is any of that out fault? Lost? Yes I guess we made it tha way. Sorry I apologize for my people. We came here by choice yes? YES. I would love to know how in the world we would still be able to speak native languages that were practically beat out of us centuries ago. I'm going to leave now. Ignorance makes me sick.

jamacia is not now nor ever was part of "america" it was a seperate colony entirely and the things that happend there cannot be blamed on the US only England

@ezeagu
Most cultures were suppressed in America for a long time. unless you were protostant/puritin and english/german you wernt to practice your beliefs or languages in public. how many europeans were called witches and burned alive in the us because they believed in the traditional beliefs of europe? how many chinese were attacked for celebrating thier newyears? how many hispanics were called satanists because of thier traditional holidays? is only recently that cultures are starting to embrace thier roots but there are still those (mostly christian extremests) who are trying to stop this expression

The atlantic slave trade is in the bible. So being Igbo or whatever doesnt really matter. I mean the people who left on those ships, especially AA's, were cursed by the most high.

they ve come again^^^

^^^ And those who deny have posted again.

FowardEast:
I mean the people who left on those ships, especially AA's, were cursed by the most high.

I am afraid, my sister, that you have quite a lot of reading and research to catch up on. The line of thinking that you still indulge in, is now so very very obsolete. The Hamitic theory and the rest of that crap was the Europeans attempt to justify their own savagery!

beneli:

I am afraid, my sister, that you have quite a lot of reading and research to catch up on. The line of thinking that you still indulge in, is now so very very obsolete. The Hamitic theory and the rest of that crap was the Europeans attempt to justify their own savagery!

And I can bet the readings I need to catch up on are the same ones europeans wrote or had a hand in making. Right? I mean sure euro's are savage but alot others are too. Everyday is learning. Can you suggest something?

FowardEast:
Can you suggest something?

You got me there, my sister! I can't think of anything to suggest to you that would make you change your world view. So go on believing what you want to believe.