This thread has been quite a pleasurable read. (though some comments were quite disheartening )
Posts by some reflects the truth, that each person views things using his/her own paradigm.
To the ant on a table, the world is flat

And he gets a boo & a thumbs down from me.I am totally anti-bio diesel of any kind.I remember some years ago when some American & European scientists were jumping up and down with useless stories that biodiesels were the answer to global warming & high crude oil prices,I warned that would usher in a more direct & potentially disastrous crisis:FOOD CRISIS.In a largely hunger-ravaged world,you cant take the corn,sugar cane or vegetable oil that people eat for survival & convert it to fuel,hence I wasnt surprised with the worldwide food crises of last year.

Yes, I don't believe in using food to make fuel, but bio-diesel derived from human and animal wastes is ok, because after processing the waste you can use the residue as fertilizer to grow more crops. (Since human and animal wastes are not food.)

Seun:

Yes, I don't believe in using food to make fuel, but bio-diesel derived from human and animal wastes is ok, because after processing the waste you can use the residue as fertilizer to grow more crops. (Since human and animal wastes are not food.)

Seun it is NOT okay. A test was conducted here and it is still the same problem - will lead to scarcity of food.

there is ongoing research in the use of algae for production of a lot of things, though, primarily fuel, its advantages includes the fact it grows way lot faster than any plant you can think of - the problem is just how to migrate this algae production from labs to industrial - i mean large scale coordinated production.

BTW, the present crude oil are algae sediments

Elrazur - I'm a bit puzzled by your response to Seun's post: Please explain how the use of 'human and animal waste' leads to food scarcity, please signpost us to this research.

I think Seun is referring to Biogas as you can't get diesel from human/animal waste.

Algae, waste vegetable oil and other plants such as jatropha or castor are not food sources, so the argument about competition with food crops is very weak.

SapeleGuy:

Elrazur - I'm a bit puzzled by your response to Seun's post: Please explain how the use of 'human and animal waste' leads to food scarcity, please signpost us to this research.

I think Seun is referring to Biogas as you can't get diesel from human/animal waste.

Algae, waste vegetable oil and other plants such as jatropha or castor are not food sources, so the argument about competition with food crops is very weak.

Yeah I see where you are coming from! The experiment was done to get methane from cow dung and human waste. While this is possible and the kit readily available - cost about 12,000pounds - The cow waste was found to be richer in methane gas than that of Human, and it was subsequently used in powering a car that have undergone minor changes.

The problem however is the actual cost. You will needed at least several kilos of cow dung to get a decent amount of this gas out of. You then need to factor the following. The cost of running a single cow - which comes to around 500pounds a year - then you need at least several of them to make it viable economically. Then there is the cost of feeding to worry about, there is the man power needed etc. To keep this going off course, will require feeding the herd of cows so as to get the needed dungs needed. Oh lets not for get the cost of running the machine that does the conversion, electricity etc.

The point is, it is not exactly economical viable as one will rely on a lot feeds for the cow and a whole lot of overhead cost. The research was done on "Top Gear". I cannot remember the episode, but it is readily available on "Dave channel" if you are in the UK.

You are right, it wasn't diesel. More or less "BioGas".

Here is a video of the whole thing, http://www.livevideo.com/video/dudewheresmycar/35C19DA711984DAF8E0B77A674F5E540/top-gear-methane-powered-car.aspx

Elrazur, Elrazur, Elrazur!

Your evidence is questionable, You should have said your scientist was Jeremy Clarksons grandson! These guys are petrolheads.

In countries like malaysia, india, and even nigeria. Biogas is derived from their soakaway pits with the addition of kitchen waste, the resultant gas is used to power stoves for cooking or generators for electricity.

The whole idea is to turn waste into wealth. It is sustainable and is a good thing.

I never at any point claim the research was from a scientist. Also being a petrol head do not mean they cannot conduct an experiment. And to dimiss the outcome of such experiment is a bit short sighted. The cost and results are there for all to see.

If the use of waste is viable for the long term, then we would have seen it happening every where.

jatropha has been in use for ages, so wat new about this

Elrazur,

This debate is about science -- How can you bring evidence/research that is not scientific or do you think we should overlook this fact because your source is british?

I watched the video and the research to which you refer is at best anecdotal and not credible.  Cowdung is not the only source of methane.

It seems you are willing to lend credence to a non scientific / unvalidated experiment conducted by BBC backroom staff for a motor show program but denigrate a piece of scientific research that has been subjected to peer review at national and continental level but conducted by a Nigerian academic.

Idupaul - The issue is not whether jatropha is new but if it is a food source.

Na wa o! all dis palava on top bull shit!!!

SapeleGuy:

Elrazur,

This debate is about science -- How can you bring evidence/research that is not scientific or do you think we should overlook this fact because your source is british?

I watched the video and the research to which you refer is at best anecdotal and not credible.  Cowdung is not the only source of methane.

No this debate is about a guy who won an award. Not to pour cold water on his "achievements", but there is nothing new or ground breaking about what he did. As a lot of people correctly pointed out - he invented nothing.

First you claim they weren't scientist, but after I pointed out how I never claimed the research was from scientist and you do not have to be one to conduct one either, now you have changed your tune to "should we accept it 'cuz it is British" Jesus flipping wept!, No, accept it because it pointed at the obvious.

Cowdung for your information is one of the richest sources and most likely economical viable source for methane. Ever heard how Cow flatulence contributes to the Green house gas effect? Here get some knowledge.
http://www.purpleslinky.com/Offbeat/Cow-Farts-and-Global-Warming.117060
http://sxxz..com/2008/01/do-cow-farts-cause-global-warming.html

It seems you are willing to lend credence to a non scientific / unvalidated experiment conducted by BBC backroom staff for a motor show program but denigrate a piece of scientific research that has been subjected to peer review at national and continental level but conducted by a Nigerian academic.

Haa funny how you are quick to dismiss them as "backroom staff" ironically enough, both of them - Hamster and captain slow - most likely have more achievements than you have mustered in your existence so far.

I'm sorry, but like I said before the research done by the Nigerian student is not ground breaking. It is more or less an adaptation [I am trying not to use the word "Copy" here] of existing works. Just because his so called "achievements" are been recognised by an award means nothing.  Peer review at national level? Hahaha I would love to see the evidence and know the credentials and experience of those who made the peerage.


I asked you before and you never answered. If using human waste is so viable for the long term, how come it is hasn't made development in leaps and bounds? Here is a clue, the answer lies in the very video you are dismissing!

To dismiss the obvious because it isn't conducted by men in white coat, is very short-sighted .

the noisemaking tribe is back.

*jona:

the noisemaking tribe is back.

If you dont have any good thing to contribute to the post, you better SHUT UP.
Idiot

Elrazur - There is no way you can call that 'ojoro' calculation by the BBC, research. It is funny that you want to know the qualifications of those that conducted the peer review but not the those who did the dodgy calculations.

Secondly, this post is about biodiesel and you have used examples of biogas and methane. That is like comparing akpu and rice or should i say fish and chips. Biogas is best as a cooking fuel and not powering cars. As i said those costs you quoted of £12,000 are very dodgy.

Our man can do it for 12,000 Naira.

http://green.onevillage.tv/?p=171

Peace

^^ Okay.

@Elrazur, please investigate this


Mini Bio Gas Plant

Cost of Actual Device  N12, 000.00 (Twelve Thousand Naira)

Cost of  obtaining 20Kg of Pig Waste Daily ?

Cost of  Water to use in the system daily  ?

Cost of Energy needed to warm the water daily  ?



                                      Total cost to run mini Bio gas plant daily =

Kobojunkie:

@Elrazur, please investigate this


Mini Bio Gas Plant

Cost of Actual Device  N12, 000.00 (Twelve Thousand Naira)

Cost of  obtaining 20Kg of Pig Waste Daily ?

Cost of  Water to use in the system daily  ?

Cost of Energy needed to warm the water daily  ?



                                      Total cost to run mini Bio gas plant daily =

Lol. Oga I just said okay as I can be arsed dragging this along again.

He clearly misses all the point. I am sure one have to pay someone who goes to ferry this 20kilo of shit needed daily right? There are just so many hidden cost that I dont think it is viable.

Nice try - That was almost as convincing as your 'research' and £12,000 costings.
New threads beckon.

SapeleGuy:

Nice try - That was almost as convincing as your 'research' and £12,000 costings.
New threads beckon.

In debate, there comes a point one have to just let some things go. It do not mean I agree with you, or you have "won". You have consistently dodged my questions and only answer what suits you. Even after I called your attention to what you refuse to answer, you STILL ignore them. It ain't a way to debate so I am leaving it all for you.

Seems biogas is looking profitable in Nigeria, Ogun State to be precise.

http://www.suburbancity.net/

Some dudes are building an estate powered by biofuels. If you grab a plot there you get free cooking gas for life. No, I am not messing with you.

Hello ppl,
I successful produced Bio-diesel from waste vegetable oil. Senior thesis in College. Holla at me for info. Economically viable at around 1000 lbs per day.
It can be done for local municipals in Nigeria especially for agricultural purposes. The resulting bio-diesel even meets ASTM standard by adding a final finishing ion-exchange column, an unnecessary process in Nigeria where the standards would not apply.

Ran the trans-esterification process in a batch reactor, easily produced. Used an evaporator instead of water-washing and also even used a centrifuge to separate the glycerine phase from the methyl ester (Biodiesel).
Benefit of evaporation is that the excess methanol can be recycled via a recycle line back into the reactor tank for the next batch along with fresh methanol and potassium hydroxide (instead of sodium hydroxide or lye). Just a simple mass balance is needed for that.

My 2 cents.

the Jatropha Curcas plant yeilds a very good and cheap non edible oil for biodiesel production and the good thing is that it can grow in Nigeria.

santony2k(m) i tried reaching you.I have been doing some research about biodiesel production in Nigeria. Please I have some questions I want to ask because I don’t yet have a direct one on one experience of the production just what I have read on the net so far. Thank you.

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