noblezone:


I asked a simple question you ignored it.

What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam?
or your own Islam is different?

See I am very open minded. I am willing to discuss.

By the way, I have read the Koran, cover to cover and I felt the pulse of Mohammed's heart bit.

The man was brutal in judgement and arrogantly appointed himself as the judge of "sinners" who refused to convert to Islam.

They either convert or

agree to live as second class citizens and pay tax or be executed.


Am I suffering. from Islamaphobia? Yes!
Every normal man on the earth should be.

Where has there been religious violence on this earth as at today, and Islam is not involved?

That someone, cartooned Islam in far away Denmark. innocent people were killed in Nigeria by Islamists.

The spirit in Islam is a very wild and violent one.

It's time you stop lying to self.

The punishment for apostacy is death both in Islam and Christianity as well as other religions. Killing Nigerians for the atrocities committed by the Danes is wrong and such acts were condemned by scholars of Islam and Muslims with sound creed. Muslims are not responsible for the world insecurity they might play a part but the large share of the blame goes to others. The drug wars in Mexico killed more people than ISIS(this is not a defence of daesh) but to tell you how biased the media is. There are Muslims that commits various crimes in the name of Islam but Islam is free from their deeds. Our scholars have demolished the arguments of the extremists but some people are only being mischievous or plain ignorant to accept the fact that the actions of groups like daesh boko haram et al doesn't represent Islam. As for your claim that you've read the Quran cover to cover and reached a conclusion, your case is similar to the extremists that take the texts and apply their own reason and understanding and decided to build a religion around that, I'll advise to reach out to those with knowledge and wisdom from amongst the scholars and students of knowledge that are Muslims and seek clarification from them. I don't know if you're on twitter, tweet these users @AbuIyadSP @AbuKhadeejahSP and they'd clarify things for you if you seek the truth truly

Reyginus:
So how then do we know whose interpretation is correct?

Look at the evidences provided by both parties, then apply your intellect and meditate over it. Afterwards pray for guidance if you're sincere

Pstlyecouture:
few good men with courage to question the abominations of the British.... what a noble act from noblezone ...chat me via whatsapp 08162262663

Am not on whatsapp.

am on telegram instead

Amoto94:
Look at the evidences provided by both parties, then apply your intellect and meditate over it. Afterwards pray for guidance if you're sincere

How come you can analyse the evidence with your intellect to know the truth as put by these scholars but you can't use your intellect and also 'prayers for guidance' to study and interpret the book yourself?

Reyginus:
How come you can analyse the evidence with your intellect to know the truth as put by these scholars but you can't use your intellect and also 'prayers for guidance' to study and interpret the book yourself?

The evidence is in the Qur'an “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the
Messenger, and those in authority amongst
you. And if you differ in anything, then return
it to Allaah and the Messenger, if you truly
believe in Allaah and the Last Day. That is
better and more suitable for final
determination.” [Surah An-Nisaa: 59]
And the statement of Prophet (Peace be upon him): Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I
heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu
‘alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path
due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah
will make him tread one of the paths
towards Paradise. And the angels lower
their wings out of contentment for the
seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in
the heavens and in the earth, even the fish
in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for
the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the
scholar over the worshipper is like the
virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr
over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars
are the inheritors of the prophets, for the
prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a
dirham for inheritance, but rather, they
leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes
hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of
inheritance).’” re the inheritors of the
prophets.” [Related byTirmidhi, Abu Dawud,
Nasa’i, Ibn Maja, Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, and
others]

Amoto94:
The evidence is in the Qur'an “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the
Messenger, and those in authority amongst
you. And if you differ in anything, then return
it to Allaah and the Messenger, if you truly
believe in Allaah and the Last Day. That is
better and more suitable for final
determination.” [Surah An-Nisaa: 59]
And the statement of Prophet (Peace be upon him): Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I
heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu
‘alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path
due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah
will make him tread one of the paths
towards Paradise. And the angels lower
their wings out of contentment for the
seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in
the heavens and in the earth, even the fish
in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for
the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the
scholar over the worshipper is like the
virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr
over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars
are the inheritors of the prophets, for the
prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a
dirham for inheritance, but rather, they
leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes
hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of
inheritance).’” re the inheritors of the
prophets.” [Related byTirmidhi, Abu Dawud,
Nasa’i, Ibn Maja, Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, and
others]

In essence, you don't really need an interpreter to understand it? The Messenger and a messenger are different.

noblezone:


Am not on whatsapp.

am on telegram instead

Telegram haha me am on teleport

Amoto94:
The punishment for apostacy is death both in Islam and Christianity as well as other religions. Killing Nigerians for the atrocities committed by the Danes is wrong and such acts were condemned by scholars of Islam and Muslims with sound creed. Muslims are not responsible for the world insecurity they might play a part but the large share of the blame goes to others. The drug wars in Mexico killed more people than ISIS(this is not a defence of daesh) but to tell you how biased the media is. There are Muslims that commits various crimes in the name of Islam but Islam is free from their deeds. Our scholars have demolished the arguments of the extremists but some people are only being mischievous or plain ignorant to accept the fact that the actions of groups like daesh boko haram et al doesn't represent Islam. As for your claim that you've read the Quran cover to cover and reached a conclusion, your case is similar to the extremists that take the texts and apply their own reason and understanding and decided to build a religion around that, I'll advise to reach out to those with knowledge and wisdom from amongst the scholars and students of knowledge that are Muslims and seek clarification from them. I don't know if you're on twitter, tweet these users @AbuIyadSP @AbuKhadeejahSP and they'd clarify things for you if you seek the truth truly

you have still not answered my question.

What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam;?

State that of Christianity as well.

noblezone:

you have still not answered my question.
What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam;?
State that of Christianity as well.

I have answered your question

Proudlyngwa:
Telegram haha me am on teleport

What exactly is your point?

Amoto94:
I have answered your question

Please eh, I'd like you to quote their respective verses.

noblezone:


What exactly is your point?

Who still does telegram

Reyginus:
In essence, you don't really need an interpreter to understand it? The Messenger and a messenger are different.

You need a knowledgeable person to guide and a specialist at that. The Prophet (peace be upon him) have companions that stayed with him, learned from him. The companions after the death of the Prophet and even before his death taught others as well. It is like asking a carpenter(a layman) to come and explain the works of a Professor in Physiotherapist, that will be an utmost disaster

Amoto94:
You need a knowledgeable person to guide and a specialist at that. The Prophet (peace be upon him) have companions that stayed with him, learned from him. The companions after the death of the Prophet and even before his death taught others as well. It is like asking a carpenter(a layman) to come and explain the works of a Professor in Physiotherapist, that will be an utmost disaster

Why should you believe this knowledgeable person. It is easy to believe a Physiotherapist because his works have been shown to produce results. Positive results. Imagine a potential convert how do these knowledgeable exposition convince him better than the book itself and the results he's seen?

Amoto94:
I have answered your question

Punishment by death!

That is islam not Christianity.

Christianity does not have any human punishment for those who fall out of faith.
His brethren are to persuade and pray for him. If he refuses, let him be.

The act of killing anyone who fall out of faith is murder!!!!

One characteristics of a fake religion is intimidation. Islam is the epitome of intimidation and violence from day one . How many Christians have been murdered in Nigeria because they Joined Islam?

When Christians join Islam in Nigeria, it is shown on National TV and published in newspapers, but when Moslems accept The Christ, they hide it for the fear of Islam.

Mohammed was fake. Islam is a tool for conquest and has nothing to do with God.

Proudlyngwa:

Who still does telegram

Wait. I hope you are not thinking of hardware telegram?
This is 2016, not 1930.
Now, goto your Google Play Store. goto search
type in Telegram. Download and install.
It us more secured than whatsapp.

noblezone:

Wait. I hope you are not thinking of hardware telegram?

This is 2016, not 1930.

Now, goto your Google Play Store.
goto search

type in Telegram.
Download and install.

It us more secured than whatsapp.

Thankhs for the info, I will do that after the match.
Teleport though was a windows program

Reyginus:
Why should you believe this knowledgeable person. It is easy to believe a Physiotherapist because his works have been shown to produce results. Positive results. Imagine a potential convert how do these knowledgeable exposition convince him better than the book itself and the results he's seen?

Among the characteristics of fake religion is the putting all powers of instructions, teachings and interpretations solely on the hands of a few at the top.

Followers dare not have different opinions.

They follow like zombies without asking questions.

Reyginus:
Why should you believe this knowledgeable person. It is easy to believe a Physiotherapist because his works have been shown to produce results. Positive results. Imagine a potential convert how do these knowledgeable exposition convince him better than the book itself and the results he's seen?

The knowledgeable person will explain things to you drawing from past happenings and the end result of those that didn't accept the lessons. An example is the issue of rebellion and the islamic stance: in Islam it is forbidden to rebel against a tyrant ruler because the harm outweighs the benefits. Before the Arab Spring some individuals complained to scholars about the tyranny of the rulers and sought permission the scholars unanimously told the questioners to abandon such plans and remain patient till the condition changes, the people failed to heed to the advice of the scholars and we all can see the outcome of their actions today in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.
Back to the main point of discussion, the scholar will present the evidences from Qur'an and Sunnah and explain them to the one seeking to know the truth from falsehood in clear and concise manner leaving no ambiguity therein. Truth is appealing to the intellect so they say, it's now left for such individual to accept the truth or deny it

noblezone:


Punishment by death!

That is islam not Christianity.

Christianity does not have any human punishment for those who fall out of faith.
His brethren are to persuade and pray for him. If he refuses, let him be.

The act of killing anyone who fall out of faith is murder!!!!

One characteristics of a fake religion is intimidation. Islam is the epitome of intimidation and violence from day one . How many Christians have been murdered in Nigeria because they Joined Islam?

When Christians join Islam in Nigeria, it is shown on National TV and published in newspapers, but when Moslems accept The Christ, they hide it for the fear of Islam.

Mohammed was fake. Islam is a tool for conquest and has nothing to do with God.

You keep on jumping from pillar to post in order to prove a baseless point. That Christians decided to not enforce apostasy law doesn't mean it's not part of Christianity. Stop saying what you don't know- do you know how many reverts that have been ostracised by their Christian family members and society at large? Do you know how many Mermons were killed and banished as a result of their creed? And do you a friend of mine was asked to renounce his religion to get a job in one of the multi-national oil companies? Guy I don't want to go on and on.

stop blaming whites for slavary. Slavery didn't originate with 'whites' nor did it end after it was outlawed in 'white' countries. For example, Muslims began buying and selling large numbers of African slaves 600 years before Europeans did and continued to do so until at least 100 years after. The prevalence of 'white' slavery is also rarely if ever discussed. Between one and one and a half million white European sailors and residents of coastal villages were enslaved by the (Islamic) Barbary pirates. This included many from Britain itself, particularly in Devon and Cornwall. These and other aspects of slavery are rarely, if ever, discussed or debated because it doesn't fit the anti-white agenda. Neither does the fact that it was black (African) tribal leaders who, during military conquests of other tribes or states, captured and enslaved their fellow black Africans then sold them in the slave markets to the highest bidder. With slavery being such a lucrative business wars were often launched with the sole purpose of enslavement in mind. Another source came from within the enslaving societies themselves. Just as Britain disposed of it's convicts, heretics, debtors and ne'er do wells by sending them to the colonies so did the African tribal leaders by selling them as slaves.

Amoto94:
The knowledgeable person will explain things to you drawing from past happenings and the end result of those that didn't accept the lessons. An example is the issue of rebellion and the islamic stance: in Islam it is forbidden to rebel against a tyrant ruler because the harm outweighs the benefits. Before the Arab Spring some individuals complained to scholars about the tyranny of the rulers and sought permission the scholars unanimously told the questioners to abandon such plans and remain patient till the condition changes, the people failed to heed to the advice of the scholars and we all can see the outcome of their actions today in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.
Back to the main point of discussion, the scholar will present the evidences from Qur'an and Sunnah and explain them to the one seeking to know the truth from falsehood in clear and concise manner leaving no ambiguity therein. Truth is appealing to the intellect so they say, it's now left for such individual to accept the truth or deny it

You are missing the point. I'm questioning why I have to agree with the scholar's interpretation of the book. Do you get me now? For example if the book clearly says I should pray five times a day why do I need a scholar to explain this?

noblezone:


Among the characteristics of fake religion is the putting all powers of instructions, teachings and interpretations solely on the hands of a few at the top.

Followers dare not have different opinions.

They follow like zombies without asking questions.

Lol. I wonder how I'm required to see something with my 'intellect' he claims is 'evident' in the book under the instruction of a scholar, but I can't use the same 'intellect' to see the 'evident' thing in the book.

Amoto94:
You keep on jumping from pillar to post in order to prove a baseless point. That Christians decided to not enforce apostasy law doesn't mean it's not part of Christianity. Stop saying what you don't know- do you know how many reverts that have been ostracised by their Christian family members and society at large? Do you know how many Mermons were killed and banished as a result of their creed? And do you a friend of mine was asked to renounce his religion to get a job in one of the multi-national oil companies? Guy I don't want to go on and on.

Okay, I am a Christian.
We dont have any punishment for apostasy let alone death.
I know what I am talking about, its you who dont.

Because you have seen the evil of murder in the name of punishment as perpetuated by Islam, you are now apportioning to Christianity such laws of control and intimidation.

That Christianity has death for apostasy is a big lie from the pit of hell.
Perhaps you have been told more lies.

blueAgent:
stop blaming whites for slavary.
Slavery didn't originate with 'whites' nor did
it end after it was outlawed in 'white'
countries. For example, Muslims began
buying and selling large numbers of African
slaves 600 years before Europeans did and
continued to do so until at least 100 years
after. The prevalence of 'white' slavery is
also rarely if ever discussed. Between one
and one and a half million white European
sailors and residents of coastal villages were
enslaved by the (Islamic) Barbary pirates.
This included many from Britain itself,
particularly in Devon and Cornwall. These
and other aspects of slavery are rarely, if
ever, discussed or debated because it
doesn't fit the anti-white agenda. Neither
does the fact that it was black (African)
tribal leaders who, during military conquests
of other tribes or states, captured and
enslaved their fellow black Africans then sold
them in the slave markets to the highest
bidder. With slavery being such a lucrative
business wars were often launched with the
sole purpose of enslavement in mind.
Another source came from within the
enslaving societies themselves. Just as Britain
disposed of it's convicts, heretics, debtors
and ne'er do wells by sending them to the
colonies so did the African tribal leaders by
selling them as slaves.

My original post only mentioned slavery, it is was not my focus.
I bid you to go back, read it again.

Reyginus:
You are missing the point. I'm questioning why I have to agree with the scholar's interpretation of the book. Do you get me now? For example if the book clearly says I should pray five times a day why do I need a scholar to explain this?

You MUST agree because he is a "scholar"!
If you dare to disagree, then you have fallen into apostasy and death will be your lot.
The "scholar" is not only a teacher, he is also a judge.

Imagine slavery!

Reyginus:
You are missing the point. I'm questioning why I have to agree with the scholar's interpretation of the book. Do you get me now? For example if the book clearly says I should pray five times a day why do I need a scholar to explain this?

The scholar will explain to you how you should pray and what invalidate your prayers. Another evidence why you must follow the interpretation of the scholar is in the verse that states" in the Prophet you have a fine example. The Quran is a book and the Prophet (PBUH) demonstrated to his companions the actions and the interpretation of the Qur'an such works were documented in a collection known as hadith.

Reyginus:
Lol. I wonder how I'm required to see something with my 'intellect' he claims is 'evident' in the book under the instruction of a scholar, but I can't use the same 'intellect' to see the 'evident' thing in the book.

It is "evident" but you are under obligation to submit your "intellect" to that of a "scholar"!
Hahahahaha.

See logic!

Amoto94:
The scholar will explain to you how you should pray and what invalidate your prayers. Another evidence why you must follow the interpretation of the scholar is in the verse that states" in the Prophet you have a fine example. The Quran is a book and the Prophet (PBUH) demonstrated to his companions the actions and the interpretation of the Qur'an such works were documented in a collection known as hadith.

If I were to believe the Koran, your assertions would have helped.
There is a problem here, I dont believe the Koran, as I found so many inconsistencies.

For example, we are discussing the issue of punishment for apostasy.
Mohammed enacted that law so as to have firm control.

Let me tell you this, in Christianity,we have some denominations who allocate absolute powers to their authorities. Some claim such leaders will never make mistakes in issues of doctrines.

The only reason for such is control of the followers.

noblezone:


I was flogged silly to speak their language.
I was chided for eating my dear "fufu" with hands, instead, i should use knife and fork.
Our drugs were called "traditional" and programmed to accept theirs only.

Then I was forced to into a nation created by them.

Dont tell me you dont know all these things.

U should be grateful to them if not for them you could have ended up like and average Aboki man .that is a typical example of Africans left to do things their own way. no education, no foresight.

blueAgent:


U should be grateful to them if not for them you could have ended up like and average Aboki man .that is a typical example of Africans left to do things their own way. no education, no foresight.

You are the typical African who believes there is nothing good in him!
This mentality is the proof that the task masters are still holding us in bondage.

What are you defining as education?
Learning the English Language?

Before the so called education, we were producing our own food (at least)
After being educated, we are now looking for money to buy food.


The equation of education to the ability to speak English is the one of the greatest frauds on the earth.

Amoto94:
The scholar will explain to you how you should pray and what invalidate your prayers. Another evidence why you must follow the interpretation of the scholar is in the verse that states" in the Prophet you have a fine example. The Quran is a book and the Prophet (PBUH) demonstrated to his companions the actions and the interpretation of the Qur'an such works were documented in a collection known as hadith.

This is not an answer. I'm not talking about Prayer but why I should believe a certain person. So are you saying we should agree with the scholars interpretation because:

'The Quran is a book and the Prophet (PBUH) demonstrated to his companions the actions and the interpretation of the Qur'an such works were documented in a collection known as hadith'?