@ Shahan,
Only an erudite could articulately state the points out like this.

Well said.

Lets see what he gets to say next. Am still waiting i guess

excellent review shahan!

@ babs787,
i'm still waiting for your usual bellicose response!

@babs787,

You're only being hilarious when you use a familiar term you borrowed from the Christians on the forum. I guess the Qur'an has no English equivalent for "escapist", and that's why you love to often use the term for those who answer you well.

In any case, I admit to being an escapist actually - I've escaped once and for all from all the demented atrocities and abuses of the Quraish prophet. And I'm so thankful that none of my daughters will be dolls for Muhammad's pedophilia; nor will any one of my sons be used for further gratification of the gay Imams in jannah like the young boys being promised to those long bearded brigand.

Escapist, you say? Indeed. Why don't you just dress warm and see more of why Muhammad's sins will take him to the hell he threatened upon his enemies? Perhaps, a hot cup of Ovaltine will help you sweat more when you read about how the Lord Jesus Christ will judge that pedophilic, incestuous, marauding twister . . . as well as pluck all the 72 virgins from his hands and from those of his rapacious companions.

It's all about this topic: The Second Coming of Jesus Christ!

So, keep reading about the Quriash sinner and learn a few things. Cheers.

@ mrpataki & davidylan,

They have pushed their luck too far this time - thanks to babs787. I'm least interested in the skeptic websites from where he ferrets his baseless arguments; nevermind that his R-IQ blinds him to the multiplied garboil the same websites throw at Muslims and Islam.

When he wakes up from the previous post, we shall next explore other areas of the Quraish twister.

Cheers.

babs like many muslims are quick to point out the lewd acts of Solomon,David and lots daughters which by the way some are recorded in the Koran to portray the Bible as a sexual book like the Koran.
Yes those men did those things but are not our standard.
The only standard is Christ.[/b]What he forgets to add are that [b]Christians are followers and imitators of Christ and not any of those people.

Muhammad acts have been summarised well by shahan.
Thanks shahan.
He Mo was worse off than  all those men combined.
David repented of his sins,lot's daughters got their punishment for their acts,solomon was not praised for his many wives and concubines unlike Muhammad who was still still expecting more frolicking with males and females in jannat.

Thanks to Solomon and his antics with his women, the kingdom was divided into two from the time of his son Rehoboam! That Solomon's line retained the throne is down to God's unfailing promise to David that he would not lack a man to stand before him forever!

Lot's daughters got their just reward, we all know the outcome of their lewd acts. Their children ended up enemies to the Jews and were eventually destroyed! We know the story of Ammon, Moab and Mt Seir!

David? Did he not lose his first son from his liason with Bathseba?

The crux of the matter, while the God of the bible loves his children, HE will not condone sin unlike allah who even seems to encourage it!

This should have been on Mo's tombstone


[b][The prophet's interactions with women, his insatiable lust for lascivious ladies, his lecherous behaviour with his wives and concubines are components that form the model of a true muslim. The prophet is the perfect muslim man for all devout muslims as he is the one whom Allah chose to reveal the Quran to. And because he is the perfect man it is every muslim's duty to follow him. For example, they cannot eat pork because Muhammad disliked it, they have to grow a beard like he had, they have to loot and kill like he did and likewise they have to molest and treat women inhumanly as he did!


Muhammad was not satisfied with his own overflowing harem and had to marry his son's wife. His son being a devoted follower of the "great" prophet was more than happy to divorce his wife. What a great father-in-law Muhammad was, a model for all Islamic father-in-laws. [/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]

Muslim scholar and statesman, Ali Dashti gives the following list of women in Muhammad's life.


Khadija
Sawda
Ayesha
Omm Salama
Hafsa
Zainab (of Jahsh)
Juwariya
Omm Habiba
Safia
Maymuna (of Hareth)
Fatima
Hend
Asma (of Saba)
Zainab (of Khozayma)
Habla
Asma (of Noman)
Maria
Rayhana
Omm Sharik
Maymuna (not of Hareth)
Zainab (third one)
Khawla
Duba [/b]

[b]As a fitting punishment for all his heinous crimes against women, it was a Jewish woman who poisoned him in her rightful quest for revenge after the battle of Khaybar. During the last four years of his life, his health declined, epileptic fits became more frequent and his other infirmities increased. After living a life of rape, perversion, destruction and plunder, at the age of 62, Muhammad gasped his last breath on the lap of his 17 year old child bride Ayesha who watched him die a slow , long and horrible death. [/b]

@babyosisi,

Many thanks for the texts that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Muhammad promised gay imams their debasing pleasure for lewd sex with young boys. I was able launching the sequel to the previous entry about Muhammad's lewdness and found you had anticipated me. Later in the weekend, more will come as the Quraish prophet is closely examined.

Cheers.

I'm really surprised to read that young boys are promised to faithful muslim men in paradise. This is really quizzical and somewhat even more serious than the pedophilia of which Muhammad was accused of.

If this sort of thing is what Muslim men can look forward to in their paradise, then it doesn't stand to reason that young boys are being hanged in Islamic cultures for the very same thing that the Qur'an promises Muslim men in paradise!

bari_kade:

I'm really surprised to read that young boys are promised to faithful muslim men in paradise. This is really quizzical and somewhat even more serious than the pedophilia of which Muhammad was accused of.

If this sort of thing is what Muslim men can look forward to in their paradise, then it doesn't stand to reason that young boys are being hanged in Islamic cultures for the very same thing that the Qur'an promises Muslim men in paradise!

unbelievable, isn't it?

Na wa O. . . really surprising!

To you babysin, davidyla,mrpataki,havila etc, take your time to read every allegations and get back to me.The lengthiness is due to number of allegations levelled at my Prophet by Shahan. Happy reading,

[b]Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
@ Shahan,
Only an erudite could articulately state the points out like this.

Well said.

Lets see what he gets to say next. Am still waiting i guess [/b]
mrpataki,

Longest time. I have not been seeing you. It seems you are fading out. Hold on and stay focused

[b]Davidylan,
At babs787, me "hide" from your nebulous questions when i have the truth, the way and the life as my eternal guide? You must be kidding![/b]

The way, truth and life? (That will be another thread, Insha Allah)? Come off it and don’t tell me that that crap is still deceiving you. It is not even surprising that you still hooked on to that cos jesus even said that he speaks in parables so that you will not see, hear and understand in order to be punished.

[b]Embark on the ark my brother, i didnt even know mohammed had also exported that to the quran too.

The ark that leads to eternal destruction! [/b]

Are you judging? Here you go again, going against Jesus’ preaching. I can see that you really want to be like Jesus. . do you have you proof.

[b]babysin,

YOUNG BOYS

Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic conutries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls.

The relevant verses from the Koran are:

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded. [/b]

You did a good job copying and pasting from one of your sites but copied wrongly.MUST you lie to convince people. May God’s wrath be on liars. Read it from 22 below

Quran 52v22: And we shall provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.
Quran 52v23: There they shall pass from hand to hand a wine cup, free from dirty, false, evil vain talk between them and free from sin (because it will be lawful for them to drink).
Quran 52v24: AND THERE WILL GO ROUND BOY-SERVANTS OF THEIRS, TO SERVE THEM AS IF THEY WERE PRESERVED PEARLS.

[b]Koran 56:17
Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.[/b]

Like I said earlier, May Allah’s wrath be on the liar. Why not read to 18
Quran 56v17: immortal boys will go round them (SERVING)
Quran 56v18: WITH CUPS, AND JUGS, AND A GLASS OF FLOWING WINE

[b]Koran 76:19
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.[/b]

The verses talking about believers
Quran 76v5: verily, the pious and righteous shall drink of a cup (of wine) mixed with (water from a spring in Paradise called) Kafir.
Quran 76v6: A spring wherefrom the slaves of Allah will drink, causing it to gush forth abundantly.
Quran 76v7: They (are those who) fulfill (their) vows and they fear a Day whose evil will be wide-spreading.

Still talking about believers

Quran 76v12: And their recompense shall be paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient.

Quran 76v13: Reclining therein on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun nor the excessive bitter cold (as in Paradise there is no sun nor moon)

Quran 76v14: And the shade thereof is close upon them, and the bunches of fruit thereof will hang low within their reach.

Quran 76v15: AND AMONGST THEM WILL BE PASSED ROUND VESSELS OF SILVER AND CUPS OF CRYSTAL-

Quran 76v16; CRYSTAL-CLEAR, MADE OF SILVER. THEY WILL DETERMINE THE MEASURE THEREOF (ACCORDING TO THEIR WISHES)

Quran 76v17: AND THEY WILL BE GIVEN TO DRINK THERE OF A CUP (OF WINE) MIXED WITH GINGER.

QURAN 76V18: A SPRING THERE CALLED SALSABIL

Quran 76v19: AND ROUND ABOUT THEM WILL (SERVE) BOYS OF EVERLASTING YOUTH. IF YOU SEE THEM, YOU WOULD THINK THEM SCATTERED PEARLS.

Deaconess/evangelist shahan,
Firstly, I thank you and your friends in the like of babyosis, malik, havila, mrpataki etc in increasing my quest for Islamic knowledge (through my reading the Holy Quran each day) and exposing the lies hidden in your bible (due to my reading of the bible most times too) which you failed in admitting having found out the lies yourself(ves).The more you try to mislead me having been misled, the more the IMAN in ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM increases in me and my family having denounced christianity years back. Shahan, I can see that you are very knowledgeable in christianity doctrine than most your friends here on nairaland but couldn’t stand my questions on christianity.

Now to the main issue

You have just stumbled on your proofs. No Muslims challenged your posting of any verse or whatever but when it comes to Muslims asking you questions, you try ignoring the questions (when you don’t have answers) claiming that they have been lifted from sites. My questions are still left unanswered. You posted many allegations but limited your post above to incest which has been answered in other threads and I also told u to back every allegations with verses from the Quran, u failed in doing that but went lifting Daif Hadith for me. Like I said in my response to babysin, May God's wrath be on liars. You claimed that the Holy Quran is not book of Allah but couldn’t quote verses from it except giving me Hadith. You know too well that Muslims wont be able to lay hands on all the Hadiths . It will be highly appreciated if you can scan and post the pages of the Hadith quoted herein and if you can’t, limit your response to Quranic verses in which it is easier for everybody to lay hands on like I have been backing my posts with biblical chapters and verses. If you cannot scan and post it here, then I will be grateful if you can back your questions with verses from the Quran only . If you agree to this, the door is wide opened for round table dialogue.

[b]Qur'an 33:21
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."

How true is this "beautiful pattern (of conduct)" will become clear as we examine the following verses. First, let us see how Muhammad handled sexual lewdness:[/b]

I still hold on to that unlike jesus of the bible that lied to his disciples, christians and also prophesized most things which never materialized.

Before I continue, let me take little of your time by explaining Hadeeth to you.

HADEETH

The various books of Hadith that we see in Muslim society today are the same in relation to Muhammed, as the gospels are to Jesus. They are both similar in that both were complied [in what we possess today] centuries after Muhammed and Jesus respectively [unlike the Koran which was memorized and written down at the time of its revelation and they both present no proof of authenticity [unlike the Koran in which numerous verses say: In this is a sign [or proof]&127;", and then asks you to refute it]. Therefore, objectively speaking both the Hadith and the gospels do not present any evidence as to be considered a 100% reliable representation of the words of the prophets, Muhammad and Jesus. Modern scholarship of both the gospels [the Jesus Seminar] and the Hadith finds them an unreliable representation of the words of the prophets or even their close companions.

Hadith have the same problems of authenticity as the gospels do. Hadith do not represent the words of Muhammed just like the gospels don't represent the words of Jesus in total. Both the Hadith and the Gospels are based on oral traditions that were written down, in the written form that we have today, centuries after the prophets, Muhammed and Jesus.

HISTORY OF COMPILATION OF HADITH:

Out of the books that the majority of Muslims believe in as being authentic, Sahih Bukhari is presented as being the MOST authentic. However a analysis of the history of the books shows that it is anything but authentic. Imam Bokhari the collector of the narration lived in a period over 230 years after the death of the prophet. Out of the 600,000 Hadith (narrations) that he collected, which were initially attributed to the prophet, he threw out as fabrication 592,700 of them and kept only 7300 as being genuine. They further reduce to 2762 Hadith after repetition.

The margin of error in these numbers is so great, that any rational inquirer can see that accepting the book of Bukhari as containing all authentic Hadith or even a majority of authentic Hadith is stupidity. Yet the majority of Muslims unquestionable and Christians accept it as "gospel" truth!

Quran is considered to be the first source of Islam. Hadeeth and Sunnah which is considered to be the secondary source in Islam, must find its validation from the Quran. The Quran is from God, after all, while Hadeeth and Sunnah , even if from the Prophet himself, are from humans.

There are many scientific and logical errors and contradictions in the Book of Bukhari as also in the Gospels and other books. Some examples:

1.The Koran talks of itself as being the only message that God intended the prophet to convey (Koran 42:52, 14:52;69:44;6:19 etc.). The Hadith of Muslim quotes the prophet as saying (Muslim, Zuhd 72, Hanbel 3/12,21,39) that no one should write anything from him other than the Koran. This particular Hadith is in harmony with the Koran, but then another Hadith contradicts not only the Koran but this Hadith. The prophet is quoted as asking, in Hanbel 2/162, Amr bin As, his companion to write everything he spoke.

2. The Koran claims to be the best Hadith (Ahsan ul hadeeth 39:23), and states that after Allah and his ayat (verses) no other Hadith is to be followed (Koran 45:6). The Koran also states that people have fabricated Hadith to mislead from the way of Allah (Koran 31:6 Lahwal Hadith). The Koran challenges people to produce a "Hadith" like the Koran (Koran 52:34) if they are truthful. The difference in language, style and content between the Koran and the other "Hadith" has been evident and is not denied even by those who believe in the Hadith as being genuine.

3. The Koran says in well over 15 places that it is "explained in detail (6:114 etc)." One word used is Tafseel which means a detailed explanation. It further says that it contains a Biyan or clear exposition of everything (16:89). God says in the Koran that He neglected nothing in the Book (6:38). The Koran talks about Moses' Book being Tamam (which means complete), and that the Koran is in no way less than that. The Koran also suggests that it should be Kaafi meaning "enough" for guidance by itself (29:51).

4. The Koran states explicitly that the messenger's duty was only "to convey the message (29:18)," and he said nothing on his own as his own sayings (69:44). It states that the message that the messenger conveyed was the Koran only (42:52 & 14:52 & 69:44). Therefore, to follow God's words in the Koran would be to follow the messenger , (4:80), as the words of the Koran is the messenger's speech (69:40). It also claims to be the Qawl or the speech of the messenger (69:40). The Koran claims that it contains answers to ALL relevant questions (25:33) and contains the best explanation (Tafseer) of itself (25:33 & 2:159). The Koran claims to be the Hukm or commandments of God, according to which humankind is to be judged (5:48). It also states that it is the Shariah or law/way with which God sent the messenger (45:18 & 42:13).

Who would know best on how to talk to humankind but their creator? Therefore, it makes no sense to say that outside sources better explain God's word.

Now let me take you to the verses of the Quran on the authenticity and consistency using 6 principles

PRINCIPLE 1 :
By the Book that makes THINGS CLEAR (Quran : 44.2)

PRINCIPLE 2 :
Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, EXPLAINED IN DETAIL." (Quran : 6.114)

PRINCIPLE 3:
God has revealed the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF repeating itself in various ways (Quran : 39.23)

PRINCIPLE 4:
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of REASONING will be enquired into (Quran : 17.36).

PRINCIPLE 5:
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than God, they would surely have found therein MANY CONTRADICTIONS (Quran : 4.82).

PRINCIPLE 6:
Blessed is He who sent down THE CRITERIA to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (Quran : 25.1)
Putting these 6 principles into simpler terms:
1- The Quran MAKES THINGS CLEAR or it clarifies things

2- The Quran is EXPLAINED IN DETAIL

3- The Quran is CONSISTENT IN ITSELF and so will use appropriate terminology for the same concepts

4- Anything which is to be accepted as 'knowledge' must be either seen, heard or reasoned,

5- If anything is from God, it will be consistent. On the other hand, if it is from humankind, it will contain many contradictions.

6- The Quran also calls itself AL-furqan or the criterion which shows that it's position must be the starting point by which to judge.

These principles may be brief, but you will see them being demonstrated throughout the Quran. Hadeeth and Sunnah must fall within their criteria if it is t

Let us now apply our principles to the idea of 'hadeeth and sunnah' :

There is not a single verse in the Quran referring to what we know as 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'.

PRINCIPLE 1 : The Quran is fully-detailed

The supporters of hadeeth and sunnah claim that hadeeth and sunnah provide the details of Islamic living. We can see that this simply isn't true. The Quran is not a general document. As we can see from the Quranic verse (24.58), the Quran is detailed when Allah wants us to be informed of the details. It only isn't detailed to those who apply an artificial standard of being 'detailed'

Despite the Quran being fully-detailed, we can see nothing of the system of classification which filters the hadeeth and sunnah. Hadeeth relies on a system of classification which tells us which hadeeth is reliable and which isn't. Yet this system is not mentioned in the Quran at all. Instead the system was created and developed by the scholars of sunnism and as expected, there are many standards by which to judge. Everything is relative to a scholar's opinion.

PRINCIPLE 3 : The Quran is consistent internally.

The Quran DOES use the words 'hadeeth' and 'sunnah'. For example :

1.
Such are the Signs of God, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what HADEETH will they believe after God and His Signs? (Quran 45.6)

2.
Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADEETH after this will they then believe? (Quran 7.185)

3.
Then what HADEETH after that, will they believe in? (Quran 77.50)
4.
God has revealed the most beautiful HADEETH (Quran 39.23)

As we can see, even though the Quran is consistent internally, it NEVER uses 'hadeeth and sunnah' to mean 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'. This was a later invention.

PRINCIPLE 4 : In order to accept something as knowledge, we must either HEAR it, SEE it, or use reason to determine it

Hadeeth and Sunnah by its very nature completes goes against this 4th principle. The hadeeth collection of the Sunnis came into thier final nearly 200 years after the Prophet. The compilers of hadeeth had no way of knowing if the hadeeth actually came from the narrator or not. Instead , they relied on either oral and written reports. As for the use of reason, there is very little or none. Some hadeeth exhibit an utter disregard for reason and blatant contradiction to the Quran itself. Furthermore, hadeeth collections have so many classifications by so many scholars, it's impossible to accept any hadeeth, since even Sahih al-bukhari , 'the second most correct book after the Book of Allah' according to sunnis are found with hadeeth which have been reclassified.

PRINCIPLE 5 : If anything is from God, it should not have any inconsistencies. Anything from mankind will have MANY contradictions.

yet another escapist strategy! You are so full of them babs787!

- post on obscure threads when no one is watching but consciously ignore active threads where your lies and prevarications can be torn to shreds and shown up for the inconsistencies in them!

Keep it up!

Mohammed promised them boys of perpetual freshness.
Anyone can read will see that the only thing your quotations refuting mine added was the word"serving" in parenthesis.

So Mohammed promised his followers they'll have young ,wide eyed,prebubertal girls for sex and then young boys as pearls ( to serve them.)
your quote babs.

Quran 76v19: AND ROUND ABOUT THEM WILL (SERVE) BOYS OF EVERLASTING YOUTH. IF YOU SEE THEM, YOU WOULD THINK THEM SCATTERED PEARLS.

The boys are desribed as pearls? and their only jobs were to serve?
More kudos to that politically correct koran of yours.

@shahan,

having done that, let me go into your allegations.

]MUHAMMAD'S SEXUAL LEWDNESS

1. Was Muhammad a pedophile?

Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3310: The Book of Marriage [Kitab Al-Nikah] -
"A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
"Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."

Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, Number 2116:
Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old. (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years.". "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."[/b]

Hadeeth has been explained above and answers have been provided on 9-year-old aisha in most of the threads. So I would not waste my time trying to reason with someone who was so obviously sunk in gross intellectual dishonesty I learnt that you have no other questions except the issue of aisha, you are just re-bringing questions that have been answered in most threads, I’d like to point out to you hate-mongers (shahan, davidylan, havila, mrpataki, babysin etc) that marriage (in which they are cleared about) at puberty, based on historical evidence which documented the norms of various human societies, has widely and often been considered morally acceptable. Indeed, since it has already been clearly and effectively demonstrated at least to any honest and fair-minded person—that there was nothing wrong with marrying a woman at puberty in the society in which 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—lived.

With regards to your statement "Mohammed as a paedophile”, you're wrong. If you had bothered to do some research, instead of coming up with your own rather convenient definitions, you'd find that the definition of a paedophile is someone who is
"sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent children", thus Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—certainly wasn't one.

"Pedophile: also spelled PAEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical paedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1998.

"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
The diagnostic criteria for paedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:

1.Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.

2. The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them

3. The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.

[b]However, the reasons for marrying Aish are;

The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:

a. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).

b. To educate and train Aisha for the purposes of Islam.

c. To utilise her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahy (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet. "He said, 'I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that, " Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p. 285.

Aisha (r.a.) was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.

Aisha lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Qur'an and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aisha (r.a.) was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa (r.a.) and Umm Salama (r.a.) who memorised the Revelation. Like Hafsa (r.a.), she had her own script of the Qur'an written after the Prophet had died.

So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aisha (r.a.) is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurayra, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Anas ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim.

WILL CONTINUE ON THAT LATER.

BAck to your allegation[/b]

I did not deny that the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—married his wife Aishah when she was nine years old, she was not "prepubescent" at the time, but had already reached puberty.

Also, of the women that the Prophet Muhammad-salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam-married, much like the prophets of the Old Testament, Aishah was the only young bride and the only virgin. All of his other wives were older and/or previously married women, including his first wife Khadija who was forty years old when he married her and fifteen years his senior. It's also worth noting that in his younger years, the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was married to one and only one woman for over twenty years—and this was in an age of unlimited polygamy.

So based on all of that, the "paedophile" label doesn't stick since not only was Aishah not "prepubescent", but there is no evidence that the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was "primarily" or "exclusively" interested in children, but quite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

There's considerable evidence—both textual, logical and circumstantial—which, when considered as an integral whole, demonstrates that 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—had reached puberty at the time of her marriage. This evidence includes:

1. marriage" found in Surat al-Nisa' 4:6. In regards to this, four of the well-known classical commentators have the following to say
Tafsir al-Tabari: Clearly states that "And when He said 'they reach the (age of) marriage' then He means they reached puberty (al-hulum)"

Tafsir al-Qurtubi: In regards to the statement "until they reach the (age of) marriage", Imam al-Qurtubi says, "meaning puberty (al-hulum). And said the Most High, 'When children reach puberty' (al-Nur 59),meaning puberty (al-balugh) and state of marriage (wa hal al-nikah)."

Tafsir Ibn Kathir: In explaining, "until they reach the (age of) marriage", he states that "Mujahid said meaning puberty (al-hulum)".

Tafsir al-Jalalayn: Contains the explanation that: "'And Challenge' test 'the orphans' before they reach puberty in their religion and their conduct 'until they reach the (age of) marriage', meaning they reach puberty or the age of fifteen years old according to the Shafi'is".

2 The above ruling regarding the age of marriage is mutually supported by an authentic (hassan) narration in Sunan al-Tirmidhi's Kitab al-Nikah,where 'Aishah herself says: "When the girl reaches nine years of age she is a woman". Reason dictates that this is because she was referring to her own experience in which she reached puberty at the age of nine. If this wasn't the case, all of the just mentioned tafsirs would seemingly need to state that "until they reach the (age of) marriage" means "nine" and not "puberty".

3. In steadfast consistence with the above points, Surat al-Nur 24:59, clearly shows that children are considered adults when they reach puberty, since it says "And when the children among you come to puberty (al-hulum), then let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age)". Indeed, this is a clear Qur'anic reference that the age of discretion (i.e. adulthood) was identified with the onset of puberty.

4. The fact that the various hadiths clearly state that 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—was "betrothed (zawaj)" when she was "six years old" and "consummated (nikah)" her marriage when she was "nine years old", clearly begs the question:
"What, were her parents waiting for?"

Well the obvious answer to why they waited some three years between the betrothal and the consummation of the marriage is that they were waiting for their daughter to reach adulthood—which is, as already demonstrated above, clearly defined as puberty.

5. The above question is answered directly and unambiguously on page 128 of The History of al-Tabari — Volume IX, where it states that "As for 'A'ishah, when he married her she was very young and not yet ready for consummation"—which clearly proves that they were waiting for her to reach puberty (i.e. to be biologically "ready". Likewise, the statement that 'A'ishah—radi Allahu 'anha—was "not yet ready for consummation" would undoubtedly be nonsensical in a social context where marriage to prepubescent children was allowed. Thus it both severely undermines the merely circumstantial evidence which has been brought forward in an ineffectual attempt to prove the contrary, and serves as strong proof that the marriage in question certainly did not involve a prepubescent girl.
The honest conclusion after considering all of the above mutually supporting evidence as a whole, including a statement from 'Aishah herself, is that the marriage took place when 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—had become a "woman"—meaning that she had reached puberty.

By the way, shahan, babysin, havila, malik, davidlan, mrpataki, if you insist on maintaining, in spite of the evidence, that Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was a paedophile, then sound logic dictates that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—gave tacit approval to paedophilia. I know that this might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if you'd do some research (and don't worry, I'm not holding my breath), you'd find that marrying girls at the outset of puberty were very much the norm in first century Palestine (i.e. the time in which Jesus lived)—puberty being taken as a biological sign that a woman was ready to bear children.

Now if marrying young women at such an early age, as all societies throughout human history have done until the modern era—and even some still do, was some sort of perverted crime, then Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—would have been obliged to speak out against it. Indeed, any religious leader who is trying to call people to God-fearingness and righteousness has a moral duty to speak out against any crimes, gross injustices or social ills that he's been made aware of.

However, there's nothing in the four gospels which indicates that Jesus—'alayhi as-salam—ever spoke out against people in his largely Jewish society marrying girls at puberty. On the contrary, the Hebrew world "almah", which occurs in Isaiah 7:14 and is considered by Christians to be a prophecy of Mary's virgin birth, means a young woman, of marriageable age, who has passed the age of puberty.

It's based on this that many scholars think that Mary was around twelve years old when she gave birth to Jesus—'alayhi as-salam, although some feel that she might have been as old as fifteen. However, "in modern terms", regardless of which age you take, her betrothed husband Joseph would still have been guilty of committing a criminal act (at least in the US and UK). To be fair, however, we should mention that even this would not technically be considered paedophilia, since there's no proof he was "primarily" or "exclusively" attracted to young girls. And if you want to get technical, Mary was no longer a girl, based on the standards of the society in which she lived, since she was past the age of puberty, thus she was an adult.

Conclusively, Anyway, getting back to the subject of Jesus' tacit approval of marrying girls just after they'd reached puberty, it seems that Christians have one of two choices: 1) admit that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—failed in his mission as a moral leader (and even Muslims won't admit to this); or 2) recognize that based on the values of the society of his time, which saw nothing wrong with marrying young girls just after they reached puberty, nothing immoral was going on in this regard, thus Jesus was not obligated to speak out against any of it. So just like the Bani Qurayza issue, this is another one where Christians (shahan, havila, mrpataki, davidyaln etc)would be well advised to do some research, set their biases aside and then engage their brains before opening their mouths.

b]2. Did Muhammad commit incest (sex with his relation)?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
[note the threat in his tone to impose his wishes on Abu Bakr, and Muhammad's arrant disregard for *Allah and his Book.][/b]

shahan, ask for God’s forgiveness before saying and posting anything on nairaland because there are wise and knowledgeable Muslims and Christians on nairaland and you don’t have to lie in other to be accepted.

Before I go into explanation, I will like to explain what INCEST is from Dictionary persepective.

Incest: sexual intercourse of kindred within forbidden degrees
Kindred: of the same family related by blood. (both from Collins English dictionary)

Incest: sexual intercourse between persons too closely related for legal marriage (Webster Comprehensive Dictionary)

Based on the definition above on what incest is and the verse you wrote up, I have questions for you.


1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.

Like I said, may God’s anger be on liars. The Prophet (saw) asked Abu Bakr of his hand in marriage and he said "But I am your brother."
The Prophet replied "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

You will never understand the above because your religion christianity never allowed you to do so since you don’t have such in it. I even read with amusement how you Christians on nairaland attack each other despite the fact that you called yourselves Christians. The above quote unlike Christians in which catholic goes against Pentecostal, Jehovah witnesses against protestant etc, we Muslims are brothers IN FAITH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM). The prophet said that “we Muslims are like blocks when laying foundation and when building house, anything that affects any of the blocks, affects the other too, so likewise we Muslims. He also said “you shall not attain piety unless you wish for your brother what you wish for yourself”. I advise you to find and read about BROTHERHOOD IN ISLAM.

[b]3. Did Muhammad use the Qur'an as an licence for his lewd incest?

Sura 033.050
"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Not only did Muhammad use the Qur'an as a licence for incest, but he also used it to buttress his sexual perversion and womanizing, rape of war victims and prostitution. Note well that he arrogated this privilege only to himself and not to other Muslims.
[/b]

You are just re-bringing already explained issues. The issue of incest has been explained up. I pray you don’t die in your ignorance, the above is very glaring but you proved that you have senses but your senses proved useless to you. For better understanding, the above verse included “those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war” and “daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee”. The above verse came during one of the wars fought. In every war, it is usually recorded that men do have larger number of death as a result of their facing the war front. When this happens, the population of men reduces significantly leaving over populous women for fewer men. (we have similar stories in the bible too). For understanding, go and read the battles fought by the Prophet.

Now, having read that the above verse came during war, and after the war, I leave you with a verse in which Allah explained everything

Quran 4v22-24: “And marry not women whom your fathers married, except what has already passed, indeed it was shameful and most hateful, and evil ways. Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: Your mothers, your daughter, your sisters, your father’s sister, your sister’s daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sister, your wive’s mother, your step daughters, under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in – but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them ( to marry their daughters), the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters  in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed. Verily Allah is oft-forgiving more merciful. Also (forbidden to you) are women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands posses. Thus has Allah ordained for you. Except for these, al others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property – Desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them the dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if after the dower is prescribed ye agree mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you. And Allah is all knowing All wise.


a. Can you bring out one issue of rape perpetrated by Prophet Muhammed (saw)?

4. Did Muhammad respect the dowry rites in Aisha's case when he snatched her from her parents?.

Tabari IX:131
"My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

Shahan, to you, does that mean there was no dowry rites because sheep or camel wasn’t slaughtered? Did u say snatched, where was that liar also can you tell me the age of her then?

[b]5. Was Muhammad driven by sex even during his spiritual activities?

[[/b]b]Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 13, Number 2380:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.[/b]

I advise you to go and get book on etiquette of fasting. So you don’t know that someone may kiss one’s wife during fasting. IGNORANCE IS TRULY A DISEASE.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "If you enter (your town) at night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair" Allah's Apostle further said, "(O Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!"

Like I said in one of my posts, I thought you are a don in English Language but you are nothing short of a dullard. Is the above quote referring to the prophet?. Where has your senses gone to, didn’t you read the tone of the quote?

The above quote is telling you the relationship between husband and wife with regards to when a husband comes from a journey and shouldn’t do anything with the wife until she shaves and have her hair combed. What is the issue of prophet here? MAY GOD’S AMGER BE ON LIARS.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3240:
Jabir reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) saw a woman, and so he came to his wife, Zainab, as she was tanning a leather and had sexual intercourse with her. He then went to his Companions and told them: The woman advances and retires in the shape of a devil, so when one of you sees a woman, he should come to his wife, for that will repel what he feels in his heart.

The issue of Hadeeth has been explained up.Can you do me a favour in God’s name by scanning and posting the above here?

6. Were the companions of Muhammad involved in the same sexual lewdness as the Quraish prophet?
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135:
Narrated Jabir: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle
[Note carefully the implications of this: the Prophet's reaction to this practice seem more likely to have been one of consent and not diapproval.][/b]May God’s wrath be on liars. It will be highly appreciated if you can post the scanned Hadith here for people to see. Also you know too well that Muslims wont be able to lay their hands on all the Hadeeth, so posting the scanned page here will buttress your allegations.

[b]Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 136:
Narrated Jabir:We used to practice coitus interruptus while the Quran was being revealed.
[Notice that it was an ongoing and well-established practice among them while the Qur'an was being revealed.]

Same as above.

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

Same as above. MAY LIARS NEVER PROSPER

7. What was Muhammad's view of women in his sexual adventures?

Qur'an 2:223
"Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad)."

I pray u don’t die in your ignorance o cos it will be too late then. Was the verse referring to Muhammed? The verse is on the relationship between husband and wife. Verse 222 is on keeping away from menstruating wife from v222.In verse from v222, Allah told Muhammed to say the below concerning husband having intercourse with wife during menses
Quran 2v222: They ask you concerning menstruation, say: that is an Adha (A HARMFUL THING FOR A HUSBAND TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH HIS WIFE WHILE SHE IS HAVING HER MENSES), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them as Allah has ordained for you. Truly Allah loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughtly their private parts, bodies for their prayers).

Now the verse continues on the husband-wife relationship.

Quran 2V223: your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will and send (good deeds or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offsprings) for your own selves beforehand ) . And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him ( in the Hereafter) and give good tidings to thje believers (O Muhammad saw).

I don’t blame you much because you bible never explained this to you, its incomplete copied, added, subtracted, plagiarized etc. That’s why the Holy Quran is called the complete and last revelation, it contains everything you may be needing. No wonder jesus said he needed to go so that the “paraclete’ will come and tell you things which he failed to tell you because he was never allowed to talk then.  The holy spirit that you Christians referred to as the paraclete has never told you new things aside those of jesus’

8. Where was Muhammad when he received the verses of the Qur'an:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Book 57 Number 119
". . .the Prophet said, "O Um Salama! Don't trouble me by harming 'Aisha, for by God, the Divine Inspiration never came to me while I was under the blanket of any woman amongst you except her."

go and read the life History and you will read where he received the revelation in the cave. This is part of it.

Muhammad would seclude himself in the cave of Mount Hira and worship three days and nights. He would, whenever he wished, return to his family at Mecca and then go back again, taking wihim the necessities of life. Thus he continued to return to Khadijah from time to time until one day the revelation came down to him and the Angel Gabriel (Jibreel) appeared to him and said: "Read!" But as Muhammad was illiterate, having never received any instruction in reading or writing, he said to the angel: "I am not a reader." The angel took a hold of him and squeezed him as much as he could bear, and then said again: "Read!" Then Prophet said: "I am not a reader." The Angel again seized the Prophet and squeezed him and said: "Read! In the Name of Your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), has created a man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught (the writing) by the pen, has taught man that which he knew not." (96:1-4 Quran).

Then the Prophet repeated the words with a trembling heart. He returned to Khadijah from Mount Hira and said: "Wrap me up! Wrap me up!" She wrapped him in a garment until his fear was dispelled. He told Khadijah what had occurred and that he was becoming either a soothsayer or one smitten with madness. She replied: "Allah forbid! He will surely not let such a thing happen, for you speak the truth, you are faithful in trust, you bear the afflictions of the people, you spend in good works what you gain in trade, you are hospitable and you assist your fellow men. Have you seen anything terrible?" Muhammad replied: "Yes," and told her what he had seen. Whereupon, Khadijah said: "Rejoice, O dear husband and be cheerful. He is Whose hands stands Khadijah's life bears witness to the truth of this fact, that you will be the prophet to this people." Then she arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians, and is stated to have translated them into Arabic. When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach. O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

, DO U STILL NEED MORE ABOUT HIS LIFE HISTORY, IF U DO, LET ME KNOW

9. In all of this, did Muhammad feel righteous or sinful about his career?

Sahih Bukhari, Invocations Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
Now the facts are all here, and only a few are quoted. Question: did Muhammad do those things we read of in the Qur'an and Hadith, or did he not??

Based on the above , I don’t have much to say on that, its Allah that knows. Jesus of the bible was even accused of lying likewise the prophets in the bible accused of one thing or the other ranging from fornication, incest to killing innocent souls.

are u satisfied, so u can now anser my questions

Where are the questions? Buried in tonnes of irrelevant verbiage?

@babs787,

You have just won yourself the degree of MIDT - M[/b]aster of Science in [b]I[/b]slamic [b]D[/b]ribbling [b]T[/b]echniques. Congratulations! And I hope you use it well in continuing to fine-tune those embarrassing moments in Muhammad's life.

Now, next assignment before you're considered for a [b]Ph.D along the same discipline - I[/b]slamic [b]D[/b]ribbling.

babs787:

1. [b]Was Muhammad a pedophile?

. . . the definition of a paedophile is someone who is "sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent children", thus Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—certainly wasn't one.

Question #1
Would you, babs787, consider giving your 6 y.o. daughter to a 50 y.o. man to have sex with when she is 9 y.o. in the name of Allah?

babs787:

The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:

a. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
b. To educate and train Aisha for the purposes of Islam.
c. To utilise her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Question #2
a. how many underaged children did Muhammad marry in order to reinforce his ties with his companions?
b. how many 9 y.o. girls did Muhammad have to take to bed to educate them with the purposes of Islam?
c. how many 9 y.o. girls did Muhammad have sex with in order to utilize their capabilities for the sake of islam?

Does it not beggar your MIDT that you'd even try to defend pedophilia on the raw back of Islam?

babs787:

Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahy (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet. "He said, 'I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that, " Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p. 285.

Question #3
Was this after Muhammad snatched her from her parents, or before he took her to bed and had sex with her?

babs787:

Aisha (r.a.) was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

Question #4
Was the poor girl of 9 years old aware that Muhammad's "Allah" was the chief deity besides the 3 daughter goddesses?

babs787:

By the way, shahan, babysin, havila, malik, davidlan, mrpataki, if you insist on maintaining, in spite of the evidence, that Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was a paedophile, then sound logic dictates that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—gave tacit approval to paedophilia. I know that this might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if you'd do some research (and don't worry, I'm not holding my breath), you'd find that marrying girls at the outset of puberty were very much the norm in first century Palestine (i.e. the time in which Jesus lived)—puberty being taken as a biological sign that a woman was ready to bear children.

Question #5
Can you please reference from the Bible itself that Jesus encountered any case of anyone taking 6 year olds as wives and the having sex with them at 9 years of age?

Your MIDT seems to be working well for your R-IQ logic, you know. Just take a look at one reference of how Jesus Christ denounced any hint of child-molestation:

Matt. 18:5-6
"And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

Do you suppose that Muhammad would escape that on judgement day?

babs787:

However, there's nothing in the four gospels which indicates that Jesus—'alayhi as-salam—ever spoke out against people in his largely Jewish society marrying girls at puberty.

True that - and nothing suggests either that He ever tolerated pedophilia.

babs787:

On the contrary, the Hebrew world "almah", which occurs in Isaiah 7:14 and is considered by Christians to be a prophecy of Mary's virgin birth, means a young woman, of marriageable age, who has passed the age of puberty.

Great, so Mary was a young woman, and not a 9 year old girl. Point made.

babs787:

It's based on this that many scholars think that Mary was around twelve years old when she gave birth to Jesus—'alayhi as-salam, although some feel that she might have been as old as fifteen.

MIDT again. It's amazing that your "many scholars" are always setting their "thinking" on spider-webs. . . baseless inferences without facts.

babs787:

However, "in modern terms", regardless of which age you take, her betrothed husband Joseph would still have been guilty of committing a criminal act (at least in the US and UK). To be fair, however, we should mention that even this would not technically be considered paedophilia, since there's no proof he was "primarily" or "exclusively" attracted to young girls. And if you want to get technical, Mary was no longer a girl, based on the standards of the society in which she lived, since she was past the age of puberty, thus she was an adult.

Dribbling back to your own goal post, huh? Point made again - neither the Biblical characters Joseph nor Mary were involved in any hint of pedophilia, as you now admit.

babs787:

Conclusively, Anyway, getting back to the subject of Jesus' tacit approval of marrying girls just after they'd reached puberty, it seems that Christians have one of two choices: 1) admit that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—failed in his mission as a moral leader (and even Muslims won't admit to this); or 2) recognize that based on the values of the society of his time, which saw nothing wrong with marrying young girls just after they reached puberty, nothing immoral was going on in this regard, thus Jesus was not obligated to speak out against any of it. So just like the Bani Qurayza issue, this is another one where Christians (shahan, havila, mrpataki, davidyaln etc)would be well advised to do some research, set their biases aside and then engage their brains before opening their mouths.

After making your "research" and opening your mouth, you only managed to dribble back to your own goal post and made the point that none of the Biblical characters in your Islamic eschatology were ever involved in the pet sport of Muhammad's pedophilia.

babs787:

2. Did Muhammad commit incest (sex with his relation)?

. . .shahan, ask for God’s forgiveness before saying and posting anything on nairaland because there are wise and knowledgeable Muslims and Christians on nairaland and you don’t have to lie in other to be accepted.

At least they can all see I didn't lie by quoting the references from the Qur'an, unless the Qur'an and Hadiths are actual frauds.

babs787:

Based on the definition above on what incest is and the verse you wrote up, I have questions for you.
1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.

Find the answers in the verses quoted:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Question #6
Why did Abu Bakr initially object to Muhammad's lust for underaged Aisha?

babs787:

You will never understand the above because your religion christianity never allowed you to do so since you don’t have such in it.

That's true - for my brother m4malik would never even contemplate taking me to bed, if that's what Islam teaches you.

babs787:

I even read with amusement how you Christians on nairaland attack each other despite the fact that you called yourselves Christians. The above quote unlike Christians in which catholic goes against Pentecostal, Jehovah witnesses against protestant etc, we Muslims are brothers IN FAITH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM). The prophet said that “we Muslims are like blocks when laying foundation and when building house, anything that affects any of the blocks, affects the other too, so likewise we Muslims. He also said “you shall not attain piety unless you wish for your brother what you wish for yourself”. I advise you to find and read about BROTHERHOOD IN ISLAM.

Titters. This "brotherhood" in the disguised monotheism of the bedouin errand-boy doesn't seem to be helping your drivel in the face of the Shiites cleaning the Sunis off the face of the earth; nevermind that the Wahhabis are just waiting in the wings to clean both groups off when the dust settles! My pity is for the remaining 68 or 69 factions that not many people know about, because they're just spectators to the whole Islamo-terror drama.

As for the various denominations in Christianity, whatever could be blamed against them, at least true believers in them know for a certain that their faith in Jesus Christ enables them pursue true righteousness on earth, with a solid hope in the home of righteousness above.

babs787:

3. Did Muhammad use the Qur'an as an licence for his lewd incest?

a.Can you bring out one issue of rape perpetrated by Prophet Muhammed (saw)?

Did you miss the "booties" (prisoners of war with whom Muhammad and his companions indiscriminately had sex with)?

babs787:

4. Did Muhammad respect the dowry rites in Aisha's case when he snatched her from her parents?.

Shahan, to you, does that mean there was no dowry rites because sheep or camel wasn’t slaughtered? Did u say snatched, where was that liar also can you tell me the age of her then?

Sometimes I wonder if you just have a penchant for wasting pages and everyone's time. No wonder not many people have the patience to read your lengthy drivel; but keep it up - it might come in handy for your Ph.D in IDT after this level. When you follow the report already quoted carefully, where was it in that verse that a dowry was paid on Aisha's behalf?

babs787:

5. Was Muhammad driven by sex even during his spiritual activities?

I advise you to go and get book on etiquette of fasting. So you don’t know that someone may kiss one’s wife during fasting. IGNORANCE IS TRULY A DISEASE.

. . . and I don't envy your ignorance, trust me. Pardon me as well if I don't fancy the vocation of a "prophet" sucking the tongue of a child-bride under the guise of fasting - who was he fasting to: his under-aged bride or his cheif deity "Allah"? Is this not the same "prophet" who alluded to the idea that three things distract a Muslim man in prayer - a dog, a woman and a horse?? Your ignorance is actually some kind of bling-bliss!

babs787:

Like I said in one of my posts, I thought you are a don in English Language but you are nothing short of a dullard.

Applause, my dear. Even so, I have not seen your own scholarship making the average mark in elementary English.

babs787:

The above quote is telling you the relationship between husband and wife with regards to when a husband comes from a journey and shouldn’t do anything with the wife until she shaves and have her hair combed. What is the issue of prophet here?

Do you have more than Muhammad as Islam's last-day prophet? One doesn't have to imagine things like a biology professor to understand that Muhammad's mind was always woven with sexcapades.

babs787:

MAY GOD’S AMGER BE ON LIARS.

Amen - the writers of the Qur'an and Hadith are already sizzling under God's anger. While the spelling is "ANGER", I do have you in my prayers that you don't fall under the divine anger like Muhammad did.

babs787:

MAY LIARS NEVER PROSPER

Amin - as above!

babs787:

7. What was Muhammad's view of women in his sexual adventures?

I don’t blame you much because you bible never explained this to you, its incomplete copied, added, subtracted, plagiarized etc. That’s why the Holy Quran is called the complete and last revelation, it contains everything you may be needing.

Right - you mean, like the abrogated verses of the Qur'an that proved too embarrassing for Muhammad; the half truths that he gave his companions that weren't for him personally (for the same reason); and the political redaction of the present Qur'an after the third Caliph Uthman burnt all the extant copies of his day after Muhammad's death, because he feared the obvious dubious duplicity was threatening the so-called coherence of Muhammad's brigand??

babs787:

No wonder jesus said he needed to go so that the “paraclete’ will come and tell you things which he failed to tell you because he was never allowed to talk then.  The holy spirit that you Christians referred to as the paraclete has never told you new things aside those of jesus’

Haven't we been through this before - with conclusive evidence to show how Muhammad failed the test and so will stand before theLord Jesus Christ to be judged in that Day?

babs787:

8. Where was Muhammad when he received the verses of the Qur'an:
. . .
The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach.

Skill, they say, is not an essential commodity among R-IQs like you, babs787. Nevermind that you have an MIDT, but look again at the emboldened words, and ask yourself if something is not missing in a Qur'an produced by a man of mental depression, profound melancholy and sadness! I may not possess the essential skill to state the obvious, but thanks for rising up to the status of your degree!

babs787:

O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

Wonderful that Khadijah was the first disciple of Muhammad's mental depression! Elsewhere, I've helped the case to prove that Muhammad's "Allah" was no more than the cheif deity of his 3 daughter goddesses; so it was only a refined form of the paganistic polytheism of the Orient world that Khadijah swallowed. Poor woman: if only she knew!

babs787:

, DO U STILL NEED MORE ABOUT HIS LIFE HISTORY, IF U DO, LET ME KNOW

Don't we know enough to evaluate for ourselves that the bedoiun errand-boy of the cheif deity "Allah" was nothing more than a fraud and the quintessential sex pervert he demonstrated himself to be in his career??

babs787:

[b]9. In all of this, did Muhammad feel righteous or sinful about his career?
. . .
Based on the above , I don’t have much to say on that, its Allah that knows. Jesus of the bible was even accused of lying likewise the prophets in the bible accused of one thing or the other ranging from fornication, incest to killing innocent souls.

Where can you prove that those accusations against Jesus actually proved true? In Muhammad's case, every single allegation so far was proven to a point. In fairness, I'd say that the only sane thing in all your thesis you've managed to intone is the sincerity in the last line: you don't have much to say on Muhammad's self-confessed sinfulness.

babs787:

are u satisfied, so u can now anser my questions

I just did, bro MIDT!! Cheers!

@ babs787,
Sorry am actually relocating at the moment, so i only have time in the evenings for now to do anything serious on nairaland.

Will be back soon

[b]The Quran in Sura 23:5-6 says:

5 [Most certainly true believers] . . . guard their private parts scrupulously, 6 except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy. (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 3, p. 237)

The key words are "those who are legally in their possession." Maududi (d. 1979) is a highly respected commentator on the Quran, and he interprets the plain meaning of the clause, saying that sex with slave-girls is lawful.

Maududi writes:

Two categories of women have been excluded from the general command of guarding the private parts: (a) wives, (b) women who are legally in one’s possession, i.e. slave-girls. Thus the verse clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one’s slave-girl as with one’s wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately. (Ibid. p. 241, note 7)

The main point in this section, which Maududi overlooks or refuses to criticize, is that Muhammad himself endorses not only the entire institution of slavery, but also sex between male owners and their female slaves within this institution. But how can he and devout Muslims criticize their prophet without seriously damaging Islam? But Muslims must do this, if they think clearly and critically, and for the good of humanity.

It should be noted that Sura 70:29-30, also revealed in Mecca, uses nearly the identical words as Sura 23:5-6. Men must guard their private parts from everyone but their wives and slave-girls, meaning that men may have sex with both "categories" (Maududi’s word).

If readers would like to see these verses in multiple translations, they should go to this website. This one has three translations, and this one is funded by the Saudi royal family.

Sex with slave-girls in times of war

Now Muhammad has emigrated from Mecca to Medina. By the time Sura 4 is revealed, where our next Quranic verse is found, he has fought many wars and skirmishes. For example, he fights the Meccans in the Battle of Badr in AD 624 and again the Meccans at the Battle of Uhud in AD 625. He also exiles the Jewish tribes of Qaynuqa in AD 624 and Nadir in AD 625. He carries forward this policy of sex between male owners and their female slaves to his new city of Medina, with the added twist of enslaving women prisoners of war and permitting his soldiers to have sex with them. For more information on the historical and literary topical contexts of this next sura, please click here.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319). (See also Suras 4:3 and 33:50)

Thus, women captives are sometimes forced to marry their Muslim masters, regardless of the marital status of the women. That is, the masters are allowed to have sex with the enslaved human property[/b]

and babs tells me Mohammed never raped anyone.
Were these captured,helpless slave girls willing participants in his sexcapades or was it another of his humanitarian acts?

by babs

Well the obvious answer to why they waited some three years between the betrothal and the consummation of the marriage is that they were waiting for their daughter to reach adulthood—which is, as already demonstrated above, clearly defined as puberty.

Didn't you read that aisha had a disease where her hair fell out.
Mohammed din't want to contract whatever disease she had,he had no choice but to wait.

And babs if you honestly think women reach puberty at nine then you are sicker than I thought.

[b]Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234) [/b]


Poor girl,she didn't even know what was about to befall her in the hands this 50 year old self confessed maniac.

@ Shahan and Babyosisi, may you NEVER lose your reward from thy Father in heaven who seeth thy works in secret and is going to reward you openly.

I cant believe some people had the patience to read thru babs787's long and tedious drivel!

@shahan,


Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
1[b]. Was Muhammad a pedophile?

. . . the definition of a paedophile is someone who is "sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent children", thus Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—certainly wasn't one.

Question #1
Would you, babs787, consider giving your 6 y.o. daughter to a 50 y.o. man to have sex with when she is 9 y.o. in the name of Allah?[/b]

response to question 1.
consider giving your 6 y.o. daughter to a 50 y.o. man to have sex with when she is 9 y.o.
What was Prophet's age then?
question 2
What was Mary's age when she conceived jesus?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:

a. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
b. To educate and train Aisha for the purposes of Islam.
c. To utilise her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Question #2
a. how many underaged children did Muhammad marry in order to reinforce his ties with his companions?
b. how many 9 y.o. girls did Muhammad have to take to bed to educate them with the purposes of Islam?
c. how many 9 y.o. girls did Muhammad have sex with in order to utilize their capabilities for the sake of islam?

response to question 2
TO YOUR ABOVE QUESTIONS:
a. give me the name and the age of each claimed above.
b. give me the name and age of each taken to bed.
c. give me the name and age of each 9 year old he had sex with.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18: 48 PM
Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahy (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet. "He said, 'I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that, " Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p. 285.

Question #3
Was this after Muhammad snatched her from her parents, or before he took her to bed and had sex with her?

response to Question 3
1.provide your proof that he snatched her from her parents without their consent

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
Aisha (r.a.) was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

Question #4
Was the poor girl of 9 years old aware that Muhammad's "Allah" was the chief deity besides the 3 daughter goddesses?

response to question 4.
provide your proof.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
By the way, shahan, babysin, havila, malik, davidlan, mrpataki, if you insist on maintaining, in spite of the evidence, that Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was a paedophile, then sound logic dictates that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—gave tacit approval to paedophilia. I know that this might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if you'd do some research (and don't worry, I'm not holding my breath), you'd find that marrying girls at the outset of puberty were very much the norm in first century Palestine (i.e. the time in which Jesus lived)—puberty being taken as a biological sign that a woman was ready to bear children.

Question #5
Can you please reference from the Bible itself that Jesus encountered any case of anyone taking 6 year olds as wives and the having sex with them at 9 years of age?

response to question 5
what was mary's age when she conceived jesus.
also go and research about the age daughters were given out in marriage during arabs, jewish era, and when you do that, get in touch with me.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
However, there's nothing in the four gospels which indicates that Jesus—'alayhi as-salam—ever spoke out against people in his largely Jewish society marrying girls at puberty.

True that - and nothing suggests either that He ever tolerated pedophilia.

i can see that you are really sick. the definition of pedolphia had been given, or maybe you give me your own definition of pedolphia. Jesus came to israelite telling them about the oneness of God and also telling them to eschew sin. Now Shahan, If pedolphia was common then, dont you think jesus would have talked about it since he denounced most sinful things being perpetrated then?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
2. Did Muhammad commit incest (sex with his relation)?

. . .shahan, ask for God’s forgiveness before saying and posting anything on nairaland because there are wise and knowledgeable Muslims and Christians on nairaland and you don’t have to lie in other to be accepted.

At least they can all see I didn't lie by quoting the references from the Qur'an, unless the Qur'an and Hadiths are actual frauds.

can you post the meaning of INCEST here for people to read if its different from mine below?
based on my dictionary meaning:
Incest: sexual intercourse of kindred within forbidden degrees
Kindred: of the same family related by blood. (both from Collins English dictionary)

Incest: sexual intercourse between persons too closely related for legal marriage (Webster Comprehensive Dictionary)

If your meaning is no way different from mine, my questions still goes:

1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
Based on the definition above on what incest is and the verse you wrote up, I have questions for you.
1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.

Find the answers in the verses quoted:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

question
still the same questions and i need response from you
1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.


Question #6
Why did Abu Bakr initially object to Muhammad's lust for underaged Aisha?

still the same three questions as above and i need your response


Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
You will never understand the above because your religion christianity never allowed you to do so since you don’t have such in it.

That's true - for my brother m4malik would never even contemplate taking me to bed, if that's what Islam teaches you.

response to question 6
the same questions apply here too.
1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed. or put in another way,were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or put in another way,were they related by blood?

Quote
Well the obvious answer to why they waited some three years between the betrothal and the consummation of the marriage is that they were waiting for their daughter to reach adulthood—which is, as already demonstrated above, clearly defined as puberty.

Didn't you read that aisha had a disease where her hair fell out.
Muhammad din't want to contract whatever disease she had,he had no choice but to wait.

SO SHE HAD A DISEASE FOR THREE YEARS?

[b]And babs if you honestly think women reach puberty at nine then you are sicker than I thought.

Well, i dont give a damn about your rudeness. your predecessor did same and yours will not be the last as long as this site exists.

i can see that you are not with your senses and sick in the head, because if you are okay, you would have read my response above. i only pity you, you continue wallowing in your ignorance. go and meet your pope and ask him to tell you how marriage rite is being performed during the era of jesus christ.

also, find out from him the age of mary when she conceived jesus.

also find out from him the minimum age the arabs and the jews then give out their daughter in marriage.

[b]Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
I even read with amusement how you Christians on nairaland attack each other despite the fact that you called yourselves Christians. The above quote unlike Christians in which catholic goes against Pentecostal, Jehovah witnesses against protestant etc, we Muslims are brothers IN FAITH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM). The prophet said that “we Muslims are like blocks when laying foundation and when building house, anything that affects any of the blocks, affects the other too, so likewise we Muslims. He also said “you shall not attain piety unless you wish for your brother what you wish for yourself”. I advise you to find and read about BROTHERHOOD IN ISLAM.

Titters. This "brotherhood" in the disguised monotheism of the bedouin errand-boy doesn't seem to be helping your drivel in the face of the Shiites cleaning the Sunis off the face of the earth; nevermind that the Wahhabis are just waiting in the wings to clean both groups off when the dust settles! My pity is for the remaining 68 or 69 factions that not many people know about, because they're just spectators to the whole Islamo-terror drama.[/b]

regardless of the fight between sunis and shiites, we still have our same "articles of faith" and also we still read the same Quran and not different as in Jehovah witness bible different from Catholic bible and also King James different from Revised Standard Version and all claiming to have been inspired!!

also, we believe in the five pillars of Islam namely (1) IMAN (2) SOLAAT (3) ZAKAT (4) FASTING IN THE MONTH OF RAMADHAN (5) PILGRIMAGE TO MECCA. here, the jehovah witness are saying jesus wasnt crucified but tied to a stake while others hold on to crucifixtion. also catholic bible comprises 72 books while others 66. am very sure God's curse will surely be on either party because God cursed whoever add or remove from his sayings etc

As for the various denominations in Christianity, whatever could be blamed against them, at least true believers in them know for a certain that their faith in Jesus Christ enables them pursue true righteousness on earth, with a solid hope in the home of righteousness above.


which faith are you talking about here? [b]Is it faith in the sense that people were butchered for their denunciation of trinity or the faith of crucifixtion and tied to a stake or the faith in which Jehovah witness cannot enter and worship with Catholic or white garment worshipping with Protestants. FAITH INDEED.
if you care to know, these are the people killed for denouncing TRINITY
ponthinus Bishop of Lyons and other dissenting Christians killed while a petition was pending before the pope to show merc to them.
saint Iraneus was killed in 200 AD
Leonidias, father of Oregen who founded a theological school, was killed
clement the head of the school fled from alexandria to save his life
oregen was arrested and tortured to death in 154 A.D.
lucian was tortured to death in 312 A.D
Arius was poisoned in 336 A.D
St. john chryssostom was deliberately killed by enforced travelling on foot on snow covered ground
pampilus was arrested tortured and killed in 309 A.D

now, coming into the modern age, we find the number of Unitarians increasing rapidly. the church re-acted in a very brutal manner. some of te important unitarians who suffered imprinsonment or death are:

michael servetus burnt alive 1559
fausto Sozini was thrown into the sea but saved
francis david died in prison, 1579
john biddle died in prision, 1662
thomas emlyn, died in prison, 1741
joseph priestley had his house, laboratory and church burnt to ashes but he escaped to USA. HE DISCOVERED OXYGEN.
Arius was expelled out of the Empire, excommunicateD out of the church (He was the leader of the unitarian movement, 250-336A.D.) and murdered.
peter waldo had to flee in 1184
john wyclef (1408) (oxford theologian who commissioned the translation of the latin valgate bible into english) was declared wanted. he rushed out of the country but hundreds of his followers were burnt to death.

these and many more still coming your way

also hope you will recall how our ancestors were forced into christianity (through mission schools) in Africa by forcing them to change their names to christian names and forcing religion on them. [/b]

more coming on that later in order not to digress

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
3. Did Muhammad use the Qur'an as an licence for his lewd incest?

a.Can you bring out one issue of rape perpetrated by Prophet Muhammed (saw)?

Did you miss the "booties" (prisoners of war with whom Muhammad and his companions indiscriminately had sex with)?

question
i need the proof please (the issue of rape)

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
5. Was Muhammad driven by sex even during his spiritual activities?

I advise you to go and get book on etiquette of fasting. So you don’t know that someone may kiss one’s wife during fasting. IGNORANCE IS TRULY A DISEASE.

. . . and I don't envy your ignorance, trust me. Pardon me as well if I don't fancy the vocation of a "prophet" sucking the tongue of a child-bride under the guise of fasting - who was he fasting to: his under-aged bride or his cheif deity "Allah"? Is this not the same "prophet" who alluded to the idea that three things distract a Muslim man in prayer - a dog, a woman and a horse?? Your ignorance is actually some kind of bling-bliss!

you have really shown your level of ignorance. like i said, i still refer you to the book on fasting and there you will read the 'dos' and 'donts' of fasting.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
The above quote is telling you the relationship between husband and wife with regards to when a husband comes from a journey and shouldn’t do anything with the wife until she shaves and have her hair combed. What is the issue of prophet here?

Do you have more than Muhammad as Islam's last-day prophet? One doesn't have to imagine things like a biology professor to understand that Muhammad's mind was always woven with sexcapades.

I can see that you are really suffering from comprehension.

this is the quote again.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "If you enter (your town) at night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair" Allah's Apostle further said, "(O Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!"

where has your knowledge gone to? why cant you understand simple sentence. the quote says, "The Prophet said" and also "if you" meaning he was talking to some people. NA WA O PROFESSOR SHAHAN.

b]Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
4. Did Muhammad respect the dowry rites in Aisha's case when he snatched her from her parents?.

Shahan, to you, does that mean there was no dowry rites because sheep or camel wasn’t slaughtered? Did u say snatched, where was that liar also can you tell me the age of her then?

Sometimes I wonder if you just have a penchant for wasting pages and everyone's time. No wonder not many people have the patience to read your lengthy drivel; but keep it up - it might come in handy for your Ph.D in IDT after this level. When you follow the report already quoted carefully, where was it in that verse that a dowry was paid on Aisha's behalf?[/b]

shahan, you may call me any names for all i care. i asked u a simple question you couldnt answer. i asked you to give it to me where Prophet snatched Aisha, you couldnt provide but all you could do was name calling, fool.

i still ask you again,
provide your proof on snatching of Aisha

If you still need the story of Aisha, i can provide you and stop hallucinating.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
7. What was Muhammad's view of women in his sexual adventures?

I don’t blame you much because you bible never explained this to you, its incomplete copied, added, subtracted, plagiarized etc. That’s why the Holy Quran is called the complete and last revelation, it contains everything you may be needing.

Right - you mean, like the abrogated verses of the Qur'an that proved too embarrassing for Muhammad; the half truths that he gave his companions that weren't for him personally (for the same reason); and the political redaction of the present Qur'an after the third Caliph Uthman burnt all the extant copies of his day after Muhammad's death, because he feared the obvious dubious duplicity was threatening the so-called coherence of Muhammad's brigand??

sure, just like some verses contradicting each other in the same bible; some verses present in some versions while expunged in others; old testament attributed to moses in which case it wasnt his, also new testament attributed to jesus but wasnt his, romans, corinthians down to revelations included as part of the Gospel of jesus.

and the political redaction of the present Qur'an after the third Caliph Uthman burnt all the extant copies of his day after Muhammad's death, because he feared the obvious dubious duplicity was threatening the so-called coherence of Muhammad's brigand??

that's the more reason we are having different versions of the bible not agreeing . anyone can just wake up and produce his own bible as 'inspired book of God".

In 1990, 'women bible' came and appeared in America and all places in other bibles where the word 'father' is used was changed to 'mother'.

also in 1996, another version of the bible came out namely 'new age bible versions' where the condemned jesus' blood as their saviour. the author was Profeessor G.A. Riplinger.

(ALL THOSE COMING ON THE ORIGIN OF THE BIBLE)

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
No wonder jesus said he needed to go so that the “paraclete’ will come and tell you things which he failed to tell you because he was never allowed to talk then. The holy spirit that you Christians referred to as the paraclete has never told you new things aside those of jesus’

Haven't we been through this before - with conclusive evidence to show how Muhammad failed the test and so will stand before theLord Jesus Christ to be judged in that Day?

please i need your proof to show that jesus will judge and that Prophet will also stand before jesus on that day.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
8. Where was Muhammad when he received the verses of the Qur'an:
. . .
The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach.

The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach. O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

Skill, they say, is not an essential commodity among R-IQs like you, babs787. Nevermind that you have an MIDT, but look again at the emboldened words, and ask yourself if something is not missing in a Qur'an produced by a man of mental depression, profound melancholy and sadness! I may not possess the essential skill to state the obvious, but thanks for rising up to the status of your degree!

am not suprised at you escapist. i have given you part of the story of His Prophethood but you still feigned ignorance.

also provide proof to back your post up

THIS IS THE STORY AGAIN, LIAR

The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach. O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

IF YOU STILL NEED MORE

At the beginning of his mission, Muhammad - hereinafter called the Prophet - opened his soul only to those who were attached to him and tried to free them from the gross practices of their forefathers. After Khadijah, his cousin' Ali was the next companion. The Prophet used often to go into the desert around Mecca with his wife and young cousin that they might together offer their heart felt thanks to the Lord of all nations for His manifold blessings. Once they were surprised by Abu Talib, the father of 'Ali. He said to the Prophet: "O son of my brother, what is this religion you are following?" "It is the religion of Allah of His Angels, of His Messengers and of our ancestor Abraham," answered the Prophet. "Allah has sent me to His servants, to direct them towards the truth, and you, O my uncle, are the most worthy of all. It is meet that I should thus call upon you and it is meet that you should accept the truth and help in spreading it."

For three weary long years, the Prophet labored very quietly to deliver his people from the worship of idols. Polytheism was deeply rooted among the people. It offered attractions, which the new faith in its purity did not possess. The Quraish had personal material interests in the old worship, and their prestige was dependent upon its maintenance. The Prophet had to contend with the idolatrous worship of its followers and to oppose the ruling oligarchy, which governed its destinies.

After three years of constant but quiet struggle, only thirty followers were secured. An important change now occurred in the relations of the Prophet with the citizens of Mecca. His compatriots had begun to doubt his sanity, thinking him crazy or possessed by an evil spirit. Hitherto he preached quietly and unobtrusively. He now decided to appeal publicly to the Meccans, requesting them to abandon their idolatry. For this he arranged a gathering on a neighboring hill and there spoke to them of their folly in the sight of Allah in worshipping pieces of stone which they called their gods. He invited them to abandon their old impious worship and adopt the faith of love, truth and purity. He warned them of the fate that had overtaken past races who had not heeded the preaching of former prophets. But the gathering departed without listening to the warning given them by the Prophet.

DO U STILL NEED MORE?
Now the Prophet and his followers became subject to some persecution and indignity. The hostile Quraish prevented the Prophet from offering his prayers at the Sacred House of the Ka'ba; they pursued him wherever he went; they covered him and his disciples with dirt and filth when engaged in their devotions; they scattered thorns in the places which he frequented for devotion and meditation. Amidst all these trials the Prophet did not waver. He was full of confidence in his mission, even when on several occasions he was put in imminent danger of losing his life.

ARE U SATISFIED. CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE ME THE DETAILED STORY OF JESUS IN THE BIBLE?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

Wonderful that Khadijah was the first disciple of Muhammad's mental depression! Elsewhere, I've helped the case to prove that Muhammad's "Allah" was no more than the cheif deity of his 3 daughter goddesses; so it was only a refined form of the paganistic polytheism of the Orient world that Khadijah swallowed. Poor woman: if only she knew!

PROVIDE your proof.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
, DO U STILL NEED MORE ABOUT HIS LIFE HISTORY, IF U DO, LET ME KNOW

Don't we know enough to evaluate for ourselves that the bedoiun errand-boy of the cheif deity "Allah" was nothing more than a fraud and the quintessential sex pervert he demonstrated himself to be in his career??

i pray for God's fogiveness for your soul. i want you to provide me the proof where "Allah was nothing but a fraud"

quintessential sex pervert he demonstrated himself to be in his career??

it has been answered. you have no questions to ask except on the issue of Aisha.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
[b]9. In all of this, did Muhammad feel righteous or sinful about his career?
. . .
Based on the above , I don’t have much to say on that, its Allah that knows. Jesus of the bible was even accused of lying likewise the prophets in the bible accused of one thing or the other ranging from fornication, incest to killing innocent souls.

Where can you prove that those accusations against Jesus actually proved true? In Muhammad's case, every single allegation so far was proven to a point. In fairness, I'd say that the only sane thing in all your thesis you've managed to intone is the sincerity in the last line: you don't have much to say on Muhammad's self-confessed sinfulness.

really, read the below

1. jesus was accused of stealing in
john 7v8-10: On the feast of the tabernacles, jesus replied his brothers: go to the feast yourselves, I AM NOT GOING UP THE FEAST, and after his brothers were gone HE ALSO WENT UP, NOT PUBLICLY BUT IN PRIVATE

2. Jesus disciples stole grain and he encouraged them because David did so too.
MATHEW 12 v1-4

3. jesus in the bible stole a colt and told his disciples to tell the owner that THE LORD NEEDED IT. EEEEEEEEEWOOOOOOOOOO
Luke 19v29-35.

Referring to the verses below, it is either we say the bible is lying or jesus in the bible lied.

4. jesus coming never materliased

mathew 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another city, for verily, i say unto you, YE SHALL NOT HAVE GONE OVER THE CITIES OF ISRAEL TILL THE SON OF MAN BE COME.

the disciplies fled and have persihed since without any sign of jesus

5. prediction of early 2nd coming never materialised
mathew 24v29-34: , the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, TRULY I SAY TO YOU, THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY TILL ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE

but that generation and many generations have passed away that hardly could we find any again, yet, jesus has not come

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:18:48 PM
are u satisfied, so u can now answer my questions

I just did, bro MIDT!! Cheers!

professor, u never did and you havent and for your information, i have listed some topics below to be addressed. i did the listing in order to remove clumsiness.

NOW IF YOU DONT HAVE QUESTIONS AND HAVING ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS

are you prepared for my questions on

1. crucifiction of jesus (lie or truth)
2. jesus as the only begotten son
3. jesus being sent to the world
4. missing verses in the bible
5. contradictions in the bible.
6. who are the authors of the old and new testament.
7.are you servant (as put by muslims) or son of God (as put by christians).
8. divinity of jesus trinity (1st john 5v7) expunged in other versions
etc

Jesus is Lord.
David oya you must say something here
who has the time to read this whole piece of jargon?

bellottiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
your brother has gone mad again.

please shahan and co, take it easy on him.
I don't want to live with the guilt of aiding someone go off the deep end.

^{and why is seun locking all the threads where these allah slaves are being creamed?}

@ babs when you want to quote someone,
click on reply.
then click on insert quote(for the quote you want to cite)
then type in your nonsense.

If it's on another page,copy and paste it in your reply,highlight it then click on the 2nd icon, bottom row abovefrom your right that says "insert quote"
then babble away.

_{What is it with the indiscriminate removal of threads? And Seun complains that fewer people are visiting the forum!}

Babs787, you might yet get a reprieve from those who help you remove the log that is in your eyes, Seun the faithful servant of allah will soon lock the thread!

One last thing to you, in the multitude of words there wanteth no sin! Posting copious amounts of verbiage that makes a mockery of didactic reasoning such as yours will not help you in your quest to pooh pooh over the gaping inconsistencies, lies, fraud and immoral acts that pervade the quran and its prophet!

Operation carry go with your ignorance!

My Good Lord, I still wonder how many profess to be Christians on one thread, but stir up trouble on others.  Surely sayers and not doers of the WORD!!
@Davidylan this is not for you bro, Who the cap fits, let them wear it,

@babyosisi, davidylan,
Dont mind Seun: he removed my post and just "banned" himself for one hour. You can see why a lot of unexposed young nigeria business men don't go big-time like myspace.com or Google. Because small success like this makes them develop what is called "God-complex."

@Seun,
ban yourself again and see if I really care! You seem to have one set of rules for one group and another set for some others. That's retrogressive!

Havila:



@Seun,
ban yourself again and see if I really care!

CMAO

Havila:

@babyosisi, davidylan,
Dont mind Seun: he removed my post and just "banned" himself for one hour. You can see why a lot of unexposed young nigeria business men don't go big-time like myspace.com or Google. Because small success like this makes them develop what is called "God-complex."

@Seun,
ban yourself again and see if I really care! You seem to have one set of rules for one group and another set for some others. That's retrogressive!

I wasnt really surprised when the number of active members started dwindling, what with the indiscriminate bans, removal of posts and locked threads, it is no wonder the forum hasnt really improved in the last 2 years!

Seems the muslims, whites and foreigners have different rules from the rest of us bloody Nigerian christians!