This is Good!

http://perceivingreality.com/

jackdaniel:

buda => Almost peed on my pants laughing . I am not a blessed teacher, abeg bros,  i am just a seeker of the truth like you all.

And i hope you share your Zen insights with us, cos we are at your lotus feet to learn. We should all learn from one another; share the light and dispel darkness from our soul, lives,families,nation and the earth.

" Let us all seek the truth as She seeks us " because " We are the Ones we have been waiting for "

Share Zen? Now that's a tough challenge, though I constantly do in just about every post. Like Kaballah, its a way of reasoning (or thinking), and most importantly doing. No different to Christianity until one gets bogged down in what Zen is not, and attempts to indoctrinate others. I guess its not a thing to preach, is the thing. Zen does advice the individual to seek their own Satori, after all.

@pastor Nice video.

seems like Scientology is about to get some competition.

Share Zen? Now that's a tough challenge, though I constantly do in just about every post. Like Kaballah, its a way of reasoning (or thinking), and most importantly doing. No different to Christianity until one gets bogged down in what Zen is not, and attempts to indoctrinate others. I guess its not a thing to preach, is the thing. Zen does advice the individual to seek their own Satori, after all.   

buda => At least you can share the koans you know.


Pastor AIO=> nice video.

   seems like Scientology is about to get some competition.   

krayola2 => the sarcastic one , must you always use sarcasm.

jackdaniel:

buda => At least you can share the koans you know.

          "I have passed 125 koans and still I feel like a donkey.
           And now I know I am a donkey."

Sure one can. Zen Koans

Illustration of Kaballah exegesis

read pages 62 and 63 (the link is to page 62, you can start from 61 if u really wanna understand but i typed that out on the previous page of this thread before i found out it was availabe online)

http://books.google.ca/books?id=WxISb61NjkMC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=each+of+the+sefirot+is+designated+by++name&source=bl&ots=EgcFapX1My&sig=eJ79pGI70boEql3W9UmPhriaxoU&hl=en&ei=HbFnSoWIMZOXlAedh4i3CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

When I think of your request, Jackdaniel,
 Certain things come to a mind.
 The first is a vow not to preach,
 The second is the vow just to teach.

 So, do I say, Jackdaniel,
 I live to share Zen;
 Not an ideology or a doctrine,
 But the enriching breathe of the Dharma.

 So I pick up a cross and walk on,
 Stomping a foot in the ground.
 And while leaving huge footprints behind me,
 I devour the Fruit of the Tree.  

 But there is not Zen in mere words
 There is not Satori in not doing.
 In mere words is only death
 In death there is no Dharma.

 D'wanna know what it is?
 There is one, or two, I have found.
 If I say the camel is the mind
 Would it be understood to say why?

Or even, How?

I love this one:

Publishing the Sutras

Tetsugen, a devotee of Zen in Japan, decided to publish the sutras, which at that time were available only in Chinese. The books were to be printed with wood blocks in an edition of seven thousand copies, a tremendous undertaking.

Tetsugen began by traveling and collecting donations for this purpose. A few sympathizers would give him a hundred pieces of gold, but most of the time he received only small coins. He thanked each donor with equal gratitude. After ten years Tetsugen had enough money to begin his task.

It happened that at that time the Uji River overflowed. Famine followed. Tetsugen took the funds he had collected for the books and spent them to save others from starvation. Then he began again his work of collecting.

Several years afterwards an epidemic spread over the country. Tetsugen again gave away what he had collected, to help his people. For a third time he started his work, and after twenty years his wish was fulfilled. The printing blocks which produced the first edition of sutras can be seen today in the Obaku monastery in Kyoto.

The Japanese tell their children that Tetsugen made three sets of sutras, and that the first two invisible sets surpass even the last.

@Pastor
Interesting quote, unfortunately today our pastors [i hope you are not one of them] would rather watch people starve than use the money they have collected for "God's" work to assist the needy.

Jagoon:

@Pastor
Interesting quote, unfortunately today our pastors [i hope you are not one of them] would rather watch people starve than use the money they have collected for "God's" work to assist the needy.

Hope is perilous due to it's fragility and the pain that ensues when it gets crushed. I would advise you to abandon hope in other people and hold instead to hope in your essential nature, truth, dharma or whatever you wanna call it. Hope on what's within you not what is without.

Many wonderful koans have been written and spoken but none so wonderful as life itself.

I thought Zen is a school of Chinese buddhism where meditation and other psychological stuff are thought. Why do you people take it as a subject or skill

skydancer:

I thought Zen is a school of Chinese buddhism where meditation and other psychological stuff are thought. Why do you people take it as a subject or skill

Skydancer, you have thought wrong.

Hey Pastor! Wonderful Koan.

Really Maybe it's not the zen I know. I googled it up and found out that it's actually a school known for it's budhism. Started in China and now the real true stuff doens't exist in china or india. Zen Meditation and Zen buddhism are quite popular

skydancer:

Really Maybe it's not the zen I know. I googled it up and found out that it's actually a school known for it's budhism. Started in China and now the real true stuff doens't exist in china or india. Zen Meditation and Zen buddhism are quite popular

In China it was called Ch'an buddhism which incorporates a lot of elements from Taoism and a little bit from Confucianism. My favourite text from this tradition is called 'The Secret of the Golden Flower'. Even Carl Gustav Jung used to study this manual.

http://www.imperialtours.net/chan_buddhism.htm

Buddhism is said to have traveled into China along the Silk Road in the first half of the first century AD. Its rise to prominence grew in proportion to the increasing traffic along the Silk Road, so that by the Tang dynasty (618-907AD) when China's capital, Chang'an, was one of the world's most prosperous cities, Buddhist translations were for the first time accessible. It was during this period that a new variant of Buddhism arose, which used elements from Daoism to beget a quintessentially Chinese variation of the Indian import. This new school came to be known as the Chan, or in Japan, the Zen school.

General concepts of Buddhism:

The general principles of Buddhism are evident in Chan Buddhism. That is to say that the world is an illusion conjured up by each individual's mind, that every thought has the power to produce a retributive future result (known as karma ), and that it is this that decides what form we will appear in during our next life. Enlightenment occurs when we understand this, and nirvana is attained when we are emancipated from the endless cycle of life and death to join the Universal Mind. The main Chinese variations within Chan Buddhism are as follows:

1) The Theory of the double truth:

This defines two different kinds of truth, a common one and a higher one, on three different levels. At the heart of this complex theory is an examination of the inter-relationship between existence and non-existence. Truth is complicated by the fact that on the one hand there is physical form or existence and, on the other, everything is said to be illusory or non-existent. In which case, what and where is truth - within existence or non-existence? After considering this, the theory then considers the same question for enlightenment.

2) "A good deed entails no retribution". This idea stems from the Daoist belief in non-action, i.e. that action without effort, which is natural and spontaneous to the essence of the individual, does not entail any future retribution or " karma ".

3) The method of attaining enlightenment is to do things without deliberate effort and purpose and live naturally. This (again linked to Daoism ) prepares the mind for enlightenment.

4) That enlightenment occurs suddenly. Although non-action or living the life of non-cultivation diminishes distracting elements and facilitates contemplation, enlightenment itself is not a gradual process but a sudden revelation.

5) Although words can be a useful tool to explain a thought, they can only ever be an approximation to the idea. Thus, the state of enlightenment can never be described.

6) There is no other reality than this phenomenal world. Whereas the unenlightened only see the physical objects around them, the enlightened in addition to this see the Buddha nature within the phenomenal world.

This brief list of variations gives an impression of the far-reaching influence of Daoism on the synthesis of Chan Buddhism.

That is to say that the world is an illusion conjured up by each individual's mind, that every thought has the power to produce a retributive future result (known as karma )

This part is quite pertinent to the title of this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen

Zen is a school of Mahāyāna Buddhism, translated from the Chinese word Chán. Chán is itself derived from the Sanskrit Dhyāna, which means "meditation" (see etymology below).
Zen emphasizes experiential Prajñā—particularly as realized in the form of meditation known as zazen—in the attainment of awakening, often simply called the path of enlightenment. As such, it de-emphasizes both theoretical knowledge and the study of religious texts i[/b]n favor of [b]direct, experiential realization through meditation and dharma practice.
The establishment of Zen is traditionally credited to be in China, the Shaolin temple, by the Southern Indian Pallava prince-turned-monk Bodhidharma, who is recorded as having come to China to teach a "special transmission outside scriptures" which[b] "did not stand upon words"[/b].

Due to the belief that Truth surpasses intellect or conceptual thinking what Zen does is it tries to make the disciple bypass that. Concepts are not the events, but are some degrees removed from the Actual event. Like the many people who want to kill themselves over their various concepts of God. They are yet to know God.
The experience is said above to be achieved via meditation and Dharma. Me personally I don't think that proper meditation is any separate from Dharma.

Here are some excerpts from the Secret of the Golden Flower.

1. NATURAL CONSCIOUSNESS

The natural principles that govern life have been called The Way (Tao); even though names, labels and conceptual thinking are inadequate to properly describe it. The full depth and scope of these principles and their function, ultimately, lies beyond human comprehension. Yet, with those limitations appreciated, it can be said that The Way was, and is, there before anything else; before the Cosmos or life in it ever unfolded. It is the unseen source of all consciousness and energy, and thereby all things are essentially related to one another.

In ancient times those who understood these matters communicated the knowledge verbally. They formed the basis of the original school of thought of Taoist philosophy. These oral teaching were instrumental in the founding of the Complete Reality School of Taoism. That movement became quite popular, yet even as the number of its students swelled the accuracy of its transmission of the much older oral tradition deteriorated. That deterioration has never been completely repaired. At the present time the teachings remain damaged and confused. When teachings become doctrines or academic concerns this kind of erosion tends to occur. Fortunately, there have been those willing and able to convey a genuine understanding outside of the corrupted institutions and doctrines.

The image of a golden flower is meant to suggest a fertile thing that glows with a beautiful feeling of life. The light this flower radiates symbolizes consciousness. Though people often tend to think of consciousness just as “thinking” or “analyzing” or “conceptualizing,” this kind of consciousness also intuitively feels the nature of things. Part of the problem addressed in the Golden Flower Method (and Taoist philosophy in general) is that as children people are taught to believe that their intellectual capacities, like conceptual thinking, planning and analysis, are far superior to their feelings or intuition. As a result, after years of such conditioning, their ability to instinctively discern things does indeed then become increasingly dysfunctional. It’s destructive to teach people to believe that their minds are somehow “higher” and their bodies are somehow “lower.” Such indoctrination creates an imaginary, but nonetheless very troublesome, divide between mind and body, as well as between intelligence and intuitive awareness.

Under the influence of misguided conditioning and the erroneous mental constructs that result, it’s hard for a person to distinguish that which ultimately tends to cause harm from that which enlivens and leads to health and happiness; to know the difference between what is truly natural in life from that which is arbitrary, contrived or human vanity. The mind gets to be a muddle of confusing signals and emotions. As a person begins to identify and strip away erroneous mental constructs, confusion dissipates. If a person continues diligently enough, eventually they can find peace and stability, and lost abilities naturally return.

These are slightly different translations from the one in the book I own. I found them here:
http://www.wokendreams.com/GoldenFlower/GoldenFlower1.html

wonderful posts guys;

In light of the attitude of Zen what do we think of Egregores now.

I mean the idea that egregores/thoughtforms can be cultured ('institutionalized') and used to serve the interests of the community rather than being a negative aspect of it.

Perhaps what we need is actually no thoughtforms at all. How do we go about ridding ourselves of egregores and making Nigeria a Zen nation?

When I think of your request, Jackdaniel,
 Certain things come to a mind.
 The first is a vow not to preach,
 The second is the vow just to teach.

 So, do I say, Jackdaniel,
 I live to share Zen;
 Not an ideology or a doctrine,
 But the enriching breathe of the Dharma.

 So I pick up a cross and walk on,
 Stomping a foot in the ground.
 And while leaving huge footprints behind me,
 I devour the Fruit of the Tree.  

 But there is not Zen in mere words
 There is not Satori in not doing.
 In mere words is only death
 In death there is no Dharma.

 D'wanna know what it is?
 There is one, or two, I have found.
 If I say the camel is the mind
 Would it be understood to say why?

 Or even, How?  

buda => very poetic ; poetry intoxicates my senses in a very positive way  

In light of the attitude of Zen what do we think of Egregores now.

I mean the idea that egregores/thoughtforms can be cultured ('institutionalized') and used to serve the interests of the community rather than being a negative aspect of it.

Perhaps what we need is actually no thoughtforms at all. How do we go about ridding ourselves of egregores and making Nigeria a Zen nation?

pastor AIO => I think it should be done one step at a time. It would be wrong for one to approach the formless directly, without first purifying the thought forms . I would liken it to passing 10000 volts of electricity into a 20 watts bulb, we all know the consequence . I personally believe our aims as mortals lies in the purifyication of our ego's and egregores ; because if that was not essential, we won't be given an ego in the first place. The same goes with being a Nigerian, it is our responsibility. That is why we are here as Nigerians.(In this view, i may be wrong or )

I see the egregores as an underutilized and mis-managed energy. Egregores are capable of providing unimaginable benefits to humanity if constructed and used wisely. I see the understanding and the management of the egregores as the future science of humanity.

This is really a brilliant thread, you guys keep it coming i am enjoying this no one has spoken about geometry so far though. i am curious as per the relation of geometry to the other issues mentioned on the topic.

I thought this was interesting. what y'all think?

Selling Spirituality

From feng shui to holistic medicine, from aromatherapy candles to yoga weekends, spirituality is big business. It promises to soothe away the angst of modern living, and to offer an antidote to shallow materialism. Selling Spirituality is a short, sharp attack on this fallacy. It shows how spirituality has in fact become a powerful commodity in the global marketplace--a cultural addiction that reflects orthodox politics, curbs self-expression and colonizes Eastern beliefs. Exposing how spirituality has today come to embody the privatization of religion in the modern West, Jeremy Carrette and Richard King reveal the people and brands who profit from this corporate hijack, and explore how spirituality can be reclaimed as a means of resistance to capitalism and its frauds.

Reviews
'This book is a long-needed, highly insightful critique of the spiritual supermarket, site of the prostitution of spirituality for personal profit and corporate gain. Jeremy Carrette and Richard King have provided a powerful indictment of the corporate exploitation of 'the spiritual,' using advertising and the media to distort the ethical and philosophical teachings of the world religious traditions to buttress their control of the minds of the people they wish to dominate as their loyal consumers. Serious students and teachers of spiritual thought or practice are well-advised to cultivate their self-critical alertness and hone their critical insight with the help of this hard-edged and illuminating book.' – Robert Thurman, Columbia University, USA

Most consumers of so-called spiritual or New Age teachings are far too preoccupied with their search to realize that they are part of a vast and growing market. The authors, who are well qualified for the task at hand, convincingly demonstrate that spirituality has become a favorite commodity in the global marketplace, which is increasingly exploited or, as they put it, “hijacked” by corporations.

Carrette and King argue that far from being mere simple palliatives for the anxiety-ridden contemporary seeker, spiritual teachings and traditions—from Yoga to Feng Shui—are insidious symptoms of a culture-wide addiction that “reflects orthodox politics, curbs self-expression and colonises Eastern beliefs.” Their trenchant criticism cuts to the quick of New Ageism with its shallow interpretations of genuine wisdom traditions, remodeled to fit the expectations of the narcissistic seeker who, above all, wishes to maintain the status quo while simultaneously giving the appearance of inner growth and spiritual realization.

This book is must-reading for anyone purporting to pursue spirituality or advocate inner growth. It is a sobering sociopolitical account of how traditional wisdom is being perverted—an excellent complement to Chögyam Trungpa’s early work Spiritual Materialism, written from a Tibetan Buddhist perspective.

  I thought this was interesting. what y'all think?

Selling Spirituality

From feng shui to holistic medicine, from aromatherapy candles to yoga weekends, spirituality is big business. It promises to soothe away the angst of modern living, and to offer an antidote to shallow materialism. Selling Spirituality is a short, sharp attack on this fallacy. It shows how spirituality has in fact become a powerful commodity in the global marketplace--a cultural addiction that reflects orthodox politics, curbs self-expression and colonizes Eastern beliefs. Exposing how spirituality has today come to embody the privatization of religion in the modern West, Jeremy Carrette and Richard King reveal the people and brands who profit from this corporate hijack, and explore how spirituality can be reclaimed as a means of resistance to capitalism and its frauds.

Reviews
'This book is a long-needed, highly insightful critique of the spiritual supermarket, site of the prostitution of spirituality for personal profit and corporate gain. Jeremy Carrette and Richard King have provided a powerful indictment of the corporate exploitation of 'the spiritual,' using advertising and the media to distort the ethical and philosophical teachings of the world religious traditions to buttress their control of the minds of the people they wish to dominate as their loyal consumers. Serious students and teachers of spiritual thought or practice are well-advised to cultivate their self-critical alertness and hone their critical insight with the help of this hard-edged and illuminating book.' – Robert Thurman, Columbia University, USA

Most consumers of so-called spiritual or New Age teachings are far too preoccupied with their search to realize that they are part of a vast and growing market. The authors, who are well qualified for the task at hand, convincingly demonstrate that spirituality has become a favorite commodity in the global marketplace, which is increasingly exploited or, as they put it, “hijacked” by corporations.

Carrette and King argue that far from being mere simple palliatives for the anxiety-ridden contemporary seeker, spiritual teachings and traditions—from Yoga to Feng Shui—are insidious symptoms of a culture-wide addiction that “reflects orthodox politics, curbs self-expression and colonises Eastern beliefs.” Their trenchant criticism cuts to the quick of New Ageism with its shallow interpretations of genuine wisdom traditions, remodeled to fit the expectations of the narcissistic seeker who, above all, wishes to maintain the status quo while simultaneously giving the appearance of inner growth and spiritual realization.

This book is must-reading for anyone purporting to pursue spirituality or advocate inner growth. It is a sobering sociopolitical account of how traditional wisdom is being perverted—an excellent complement to Chögyam Trungpa’s early work Spiritual Materialism, written from a Tibetan Buddhist perspective.
   

krayola2=>  all through time, its quite unfortunate there will always exist humans who seek to profit from the ignorance of many.  but one thing is for sure "They can fool some people some times but they cannot fool everybody all the time" 

Pastor AIO:
Here are some excerpts from the Secret of the Golden  Flower.

These are slightly different translations from the one in the book I own.  I found them here:
http://www.wokendreams.com/GoldenFlower/GoldenFlower1.html

Its not one I have read, though I have read the forward of this edition by Jung.

Pastor AIO:

In light of the attitude of Zen what do we think of Egregores now.

I mean the idea that egregores/thoughtforms can be cultured ('institutionalized') and used to serve the interests of the community rather than being a negative aspect of it.

Perhaps what we need is actually no thoughtforms at all. How do we go about ridding ourselves of egregores and making Nigeria a Zen nation?

Egregores seem to be the things one believes, it seems, those things that make one rigid in thought I'd say. Zen on the other hand, seems to be against the idea of beliefs, advocating something else, though I can't say what. Reminds me of something Paul said about when he was a child. One sue must leave childish things at some time, I reckon.

@Pastor AIO

I wish that M_Nwankwo discovers this thread soon, cos I would be interested to know what his contribution to such a thread would be.

Is our Will or our Intent something separate from an egregore? 

Hi Pastor. Apologies for my late reply. I was away on holiday. I have gone through the thread and there  are lot of issues raised that I am not sure where to start. All the same, I will briefly present my view on some of the issues. First, let me say that their is a distinction between the creator, God and his creations. All creations, those that are visible or invinsible, formed or formless come from the radiations or emanations of God. The radiation of God is however not God, even though it has its source in God. A crude analogy will be the sun and its rays. The rays of the sun has its source in the sun but is not the sun. Thus, nothing is really created for what ever we think is created comes from transformation of the radiation of God or precipitation of this radiation of God. Thus human beings, angels, the cosmos, plants, stones etc are simply different precipitations from this radiation of God. Thus it is correct in my view to say that all creatures and the indeed the whole creation came from God, that is that they are emanations from GOD that has taken form but it will be incorrect in my sensing to say that they have God in themselves. The precipitations of the radiations of God can be reproduced in a picture, that is, they can be substantiated into a form. However the ability to percieve the form lies at the point at which such a precipitation came out of the radiation of God . If for example we designate precipations out of the radiations of God to number 1 to 7 for instance, with I being creatures that originated from radiations that are closer to God and 7 being those that are furtherest from God. Then if a creature that came into being at 7 is shown creatures or creations in 6, then it will be formless and yet a creature that has its origin in 5 will clearly see that creatures and worlds in 6 has form. What I am trying to say is that in reality only God is formless, the formlessness in any other thing is not real but apparent and simply defines the origin of the creature and his level spiritual counsciouness. Thus even the entire creation has form, space and time but for a human spirit who is simply a very small part of creation, the spirit can percieve the entire creations as formless, timeless and without space. Thus, only God is eternal. The forms of the radiations of God of which the human spirit is just one specie can only be granted eternal life if God permits. Thus  God is LIFE. All creatures and creations in their many forms are simply a consequence of LIFE but not LIFE itself. Again, my view is that counsciousness is not God. Ego-consciousness (spiritual counsciousness), connsciousness, uncounsciousness etc are intrinsic nature of species that arose from the radiations of God. Some of these species are uncounscious, some are conscious, some are ego counscious and some can develop from uncounsciousness to consciousness. After this brief digression, let me return to the main issue of the thread. I will not like to use the word egregores. I will rather use thought forms. Thought forms as the words say are forms of our thoughts. The impetus for their formation comes from the thoughts which our brain generates. Elemetental beings similar to water, air, fire and earth elements pick up our thoughts and fashion them into a form that embodies our thoughts. Thus, thoughts of evvy, hatred, lust as well as love, humility, heroism etc have distinct colours as well as distinct tones which a person blessed with pure clirvoyant or clairaudient abilities can easily differentiate. Thoughts forms whether they are good or bad are anchored in a plane that people generally refer to the astral world. Thought forms are dependent on their producers and those who think alike. They can cause havoc if they are evil but can also bring blessings if they are good. Thought forms have no will of their own but embodies the expressed toughts of its creator or rather its producer. Thus thought forms are a consequence of the ability of our brain to think. It has no direct connection with the spirit.
Then their is a form produced as a result of our spiritual will. This is much more powerful than thought forms. The human spirit has the ability to open up to the power of God vibrating in creation. The brain has not this connection. As soon as a human spirit will something, which in most cases is not recognised by the brain, the expressed will of the human spirit comes into contact with the neutral power of God vibrating in creation. The union of the human spiritual voilition with the neutral power of God brings into being a form called intutive forms. Like everything else, the fashoning of these forms are carried out by another species of elemental beings. Unlike thought forms which are bound to the astral world, intutive forms penatrate into worlds higher as well as lower than the astral world depending on wheather they are good or evil. If they are pure, radiations from these forms can actually reach as far as heaven by a process of radiation fashioning. Maybe some day we can discuss about fashioning of radiation and how they can form a step ladder drawing a human spirit upwards to the kingdom of God. Now these intuitive forms in the process of their formation, absorb a elemental particle, similar to species form which animal souls originate. The absorption of these elemental particle gives the intuitive form a motive power, that is it can act with or without the consent of its producer or people who wills the same way as the producer . But the intuitive form lacks the capacity to will, it only carries out the original program that led to its formation. Thus if it is an envy form, it can not suddenly change to a lust form or a peace form but carries out envious activities in the most bizzare form. Hell for instance is a world or rather worlds that arose as a results of the evil intutive voilition of men. Hell is not a creation of God but rather the work of man. The same also goes for the masters and enlightened ones of many religions, sects and mystical organisations. Thus for instance, there are a lot of intutive forms that claim to be Jesus Christ and they vary depending on which religious or mystical tradition gave rise to it. What is however unknown to these sages and religious priests is that the object of their worship, veneration and the source of their power are simply their own productions. It is a sham world where everthing is possible and impossible.. Even the religious forum on nairaland and its participants have  thought and in some cases intuitive forms. I will stop here for now. Stay blessed.

@M_nwanko
welcome back from your vacation i don't know what to say but your posts are double edge. They serve to both enlighten and confuse us further

Jagoon:

@M_nwanko
welcome back from your vacation i don't know what to say but your posts are double edge. They serve to both enlighten and confuse us further

Hi Jagoon. I am sorry if my posts seem confusing. Peharps, you can point out aspects of it that are not clear and I will try to put it in a clearer light. Stay blessed.

@M-Nwankwo=> Thanks for sharing your insight, it's really illuminating . Yet, i will wish to draw your attention on certain issues.

1)"on your analysis of the distinction between the creator and the created(enamation)"=> on this issue, i believe that distinction of G-d and his creatures might not be necessary since it relies on the perception of the perceiver. I am of the opinion that G-d is in the whole and not in fragment. This view shouldn't be confused with the source of all creation. i will like to illustrate my point with a simple number formalism which i have used in a previous post, but however with some new points.

Eqn1: G-d={infinity-0-infinity}.

The origin/source and its end can't be known  by beings of causality. I beg to differ in your analysis, by saying all is G-d, but no single unit is G-d. i would define G-d as the sum of the set of all, with no beginning and no end. This in my opinion is why the ancients have always used the circle as a representation of the unity of G-d, because he  is comprised of all. This definiton how ever might be flawed since it is given by a being of casualty , however when i tackle such concepts i try to use the purest of all intuitive representation/formalism a.k.a numbers.


2)

the intuitive form lacks the capacity to will, it only carries out the original program that led to its formation 

    On this i beg to differ; cos i have observed some intuitive form will beyond the realms of their original program e.g The gods of ancient societies born out of the will and intuition for specific purposes, but now due to some factors, have devolve into states of nihilistic chaos.


And also you mentioned about the beings of the elements in your thread, you seem to have a great insight on the activities of the elementals; wow, can you share your view on the elementals, i will love to hear .

Hi jackdaniel. Thanks for your views. I address the issues you raised as follows:

@M-Nwankwo=> Thanks for sharing your insight, it's really illuminating . Yet, i will wish to draw your attention on certain issues.

1)"on your analysis of the distinction between the creator and the created(enamation)"=> on this issue, i believe that distinction of G-d and his creatures might not be necessary since it relies on the perception of the perceiver. I am of the opinion that G-d is in the whole and not in fragment. This view shouldn't be confused with the source of all creation. i will like to illustrate my point with a simple number formalism which i have used in  a previous post, but however with some new points.

Eqn1: G-d={infinity-0-infinity}.

The origin/source and its end can't be known  by beings of causality. I beg to differ in your analysis, by saying all is G-d, but no single unit is G-d. i would define G-d as the sum of the set of all, with no beginning and no end. This in my opinion is why the ancients have always used the circle as a representation of the unity of G-d, because he  is comprised of all. This definiton how ever might be flawed since it is given by a being of casualty , however when i tackle such concepts i try to use the purest of all intuitive representation/formalism a.k.a numbers.

I do not agree that all is God but no single unit is God. If that is the case what are the fragments or single units made of. Secondly how can the fragment or single unit concieve of the whole? If God is comprised of all, are the single units parts of God. If they are, then explain what God will be doing in Ebola virus or even in viruses that Craig Venter haS created in his lab. If however the single units are not parts of God, then what are they? My view is both the parts and the whole are not God but creation of God. I do not know why some ancients uses a circle to represent the unity of God. My view is that a cycle referes to creation for the circle itself is a form, that is,  it can be substantiated in a picture. Thus God has no representation, that is, no form can depict God. Thus, neither the circle, numbers or any formation can be used to depict God. The circle represents the cycling of radiations in the creation of God, it depicts the beginning and the end of the creation of God. God, the creator stands outside and above his creations. A work is not a part of its creator. An artist is not in his paintings, an author is not in his books etc and yet we can learn so much about the talent of the artist or an author by looking at his paintings or books. Although this is a crude anology, it gives a faint reflection of the creator God and his creations.

On this i beg to differ; cos i have observed some intuitive form will beyond the realms of their original program e.g The gods of ancient societies born out of the will and intuition for specific purposes, but now due to some factors, have devolve into states of nihilistic chaos.

Give specific examples and I will reply.

And also you mentioned about the beings of the elements in your thread, you seem to have a great insight on the activities of the elementals; wow, can you share your view on the elementals, i will love to hear

I am permitted to know certain things about elemental beings and will share them if I sense it will be helpful spiritually to discussants. Stay blessed.

 
I do not agree that all is God but no single unit is God. If that is the case what are the fragments or single units made of. Secondly how can the fragment or single unit concieve of the whole? If God is comprised of all, are the single units parts of God. If they are, then explain what God will be doing in Ebola virus or even in viruses that Craig Venter haS created in his lab. If however the single units are not parts of God, then what are they? My view is both the parts and the whole are not God but creation. I do not know why some ancients uses a circle to represent the unity of God. My view is that a cycle referes to creation for the circle itself is a form, that is,  it can be substantiated in a picture. Thus God has no representation, that is, no form can depict God. Thus, neither the circle, numbers or any formation can be used to depict God.
 

@M-nwankwo=> On this issue i'll give one more analysis: a lion is called a lion in it's totality, if you cut it's head ,will you refer to the lions head as the lion or will you refer it as the lions head.The whole makes up the entity, and the part cannot be addressed as the whole. That was my point.I am also of the opinion that the fragment can never perceive the whole in it's totality,"can the lions hair perceive the lion?". The adequate definition of concepts are in thier totality and not in its parts. As i said, my analogy might be wrong because i believe beings of casualty are not capable of describing the non-causal

Give specific examples and I will reply.
 

eg1 The willed gods of the ancients are the demons of the goetia's and legamattons.

I am permitted to know certain things about elemental beings and will share them if I sense it will be helpful spiritually to discussants. Stay blessed.   

=. you could veil it if you choose. I hope the knowledge will be  that which will uplift, rather than that which will destroy   - but the light of knowledge should raised up high, to uplift the spirit. "we are the ones we have been waiting for" 

The earlier post was written in a rush; with a little time on my side, i will comment more.

Seeing the creator in the light of his Totality free's one from the shackles of Duality i.e the concept of Good and Evil. G-d is the embodiment of both duality a.k.a ALL. I will make a reference of the Christian and the Jewish holy literature Isaiah 45:7="I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Yes one will argue; "it says do and not, I am these things", but it should be noted that all was made from the original cause; all that is, is of him and there is non without him .
On your question of the Ebola Virus; i will say G-d is the Ebola virus, but the Ebola virus is not G-d. The concept of duality is bound to create a dogmatic shackle, which tends to be hard to break, this concept is bound to lead the mind into error.We all know that the mind is a slave to classification; due to its limitation. In my believe, a greater form of morality is one that deals with Causes and Consequences. A mind tailored to live by the laws of Cause and Effects would uphold moral virtues in a greater light and stability.
On your question of the artist and the painting, i believe the artist is his painting, but the painting is not the artist. The painting would always be referred to in conjunction with the artist, but not vice-versa. This might sound ludicrous in a world were we are bound to be limited by the laws of separation and duality. Even quantum physics has thrown more light on the interconnectivity of all. The all in my opinion is G-d.

@Jackdaniel

@M-nwankwo=> On this issue i'll give one more analysis: a lion is called a lion in it's totality, if you cut it's head ,will you refer to the lions head as the lion or will you refer it as the lions head.The whole makes up the entity, and the part cannot be addressed as the whole. That was my point.I am also of the opinion that the fragment can never perceive the whole in it's totality,"can the lions hair perceive the lion?". The adequate definition of concepts are in thier totality and not in its parts. As i said, my analogy might be wrong because i believe beings of casualty are not capable of describing the non-causal

By your lion analogy, you seem to be saying that man, viruses, electrons, bacteria, stones, stars etc are parts of God. I have previously asked you  if a virus is a part of God, and what is God doing in Ebola virus or HIV. It is indeed strange that a part of God will infect and kill another part of God. By the way, I could engineer an artificial virus in my lab. Craig Venter has already done so. Are such artifical viruses also parts of God? Are motor cars, aeroplanes, buildings also parts of God? My view is the whole is not God but his creation and the fragments are simply parts, species, or creatures in creation. A part of creation like man cannot concieve of the whole creation, much less of the creator. Only God is non-causal or independent while everything else owns it existence to God and is absolutely dependent on God. Thus I do not share the view that God or his essence is present in creation and his creatures.  

eg1 The willed gods of the ancients are the demons of the goetia's and legamattons.

I do not know  what "willed gods of the ancients" are and how they become "demons of the goetia and legamattons". Kindly explain to me the above. I may then comment on gods and goddesses and the demons or evil intutive forms claiming to be these gods and goddesses.

=. you could veil it if you choose. I hope the knowledge will be  that which will uplift, rather than that which will destroy   - but the light of knowledge should raised up high, to uplift the spirit. "we are the ones we have been waiting for"  

There is no mystery or secret about elemental beings. We cannot be here without them and they are innumerable numbers of them. What we call nature is the work of elemental beings. They are involved with stupendous and simple happenings like the formation of the universes, galaxies, suns etc,  lightining, so called natural "disasters" , air cycles, water cycles, fire etc, as well as recording our actions, words, thoughts and intutive voilition with mathematical exactitude etc. Naturally, different elemental beings carry out these tasks. In ancient times and even today among simple people that are closer to nature, the denser species of these elementals like the gnomes , salamanders, water sprites etc can be seen by people. Atimes some of these people can also see another specie of elementals called the fairies. Specially blessed ones can also see the lords of these elemental beings , called the gods and goddesses and in exceptional cases, specially gifted ones can also see the lords of these gods and goddesses, and on an on the chain of linkage moves upwards till one gets to the sustantiate origin of these radiations which have formed themselves into different elemental beings and their leaders. All elemental beings, high or low are creatures of God and they are servants of God. Some dense ones like the gnomes are small in size, while some are so big that they can hold our entire universe in the palm of their hands. And yet even these mighty ones are just creatures and servants of God. Unfortunately, the connection of human beings to elementals has been lost due o our sinful nature and we are paying a heavy prize for it. Have we not cut of our connection with them, we would have been protected from many a harm including so called natural disasters, diseases etc. We would have through their guidance transformed this earth into a paradise where only the will of God reigns supreme.

In creation, there should be no room for mystism, everything should lie clear before the human spirit. Those who seek will surely find God without books, mystical trianing or religious tradition. God who created man as spirit has equipped man with all the talents. All we need do is to develope these talents into abilities as God wants us. Stay blessed.