DeepSight:


How is being religious irrational and how is being atheist rational?

Can you show the specific thought development that leads one to atheism such that you can sustain the claim that atheism represents rationality?

Is religion limited to imported religion?

The talking god who writes books, is a falsifiable claim.

CoolUsername:


Reading this post just reduced my IQ by 2 points.

Saying there is no God, blew away most of you iq.

DeepSight:


So Dawkins was the Pope for you?

Yea if you say so.

Weah96:

The talking god who writes books, is a falsifiable claim.

The idea of a talking being who writes books seems so odd - you , intelligent rationalists, have to reject the idea!!

And propose that the human intelligence that makes him capable of authoring books came from
imbecilic dumber life forms who came from a cataclysmic volatile nothingness! and that sounds soooooo smart to your intelligent rational minds!!!!

asalimpo:


The idea of a talking being who writes books seems so odd - you , intelligent rationalists, have to reject the idea!!


And propose that the human intelligence that makes him capable of authoring books came from
imbecilic dumber life forms who came from a cataclysmic volatile nothingness! and that sounds soooooo smart to your intelligent rational minds!!!!

Classic case of a non sequitur. Say absolutely nothing in the first sentence, and follow up with an agitated accusation that is totally unrelated to the talking god business.

Did I just hear you describe the talking god business as odd?

DeepSight:


How is being religious irrational and how is being atheist rational?

Can you show the specific thought development that leads one to atheism such that you can sustain the claim that atheism represents rationality?

Is religion limited to imported religion?

First of all, happy new year sire.
It's been a long long while.
How are you?

It's a funny coincidence that I remembered you today, and was thinking that you might been caught up in one of those INFINITY loops in the other universe.

DeepSight:


How is being religious irrational and how is being atheist rational?

Can you show the specific thought development that leads one to atheism such that you can sustain the claim that atheism represents rationality?

Is religion limited to imported religion?

Holding an absolute worldview on core existential issues, without first availing oneself of the benefit of study and analysis, is the definition of irrationality.

My logicalism (if such a word exists) and curiousity had always been a source of argument between me and my sunday school teacher. I always questioned him about things "proved" in the bible and actual, tested evidence.


For the first time in life then, I read "herectical" books and authors, I researched completely and before you knew it, I, SirWere; became an agnostic atheist.







Note: I am not saying that I am not be wrong in saying there is no God.

But then again, I might be wrong.

I remember playing soccer as a young dude. You know when soccer don dey sweet enter body. Then you hear go in and wash up." get ready for bible studies. The annoyance...

Grabs bible proceeds to bible study. At the study you feel so alive and filled with the holyspirit the uncle leading the study literally had an halo hovering over his head. As far as I was concern. Then you go home feeling recharged.

The circle continues, until one day. You leave soccer, wash up. carry bible. Get to the location and find out that uncle has impregnated the top star in bible verses. The shock got my head spinning. My youthful naiveté was hereby violated.

I remember how they kept throwing around 1st corinthians or Matt 18. Because young bible star was in her early teens and uncle was in his mid twenties. The way the elders were blaming the devil got me worried.

Of course, the next uncles and aunties that led any bible study had no more halos. Every one became a suspect of backsliding and falling inside Aunty sarah's honey or mistakenly sitting on uncle john's banana out of wedlock.

GooseBaba:
I remember playing soccer as a young dude. You know when soccer don dey sweet enter body. Then you hear go in and wash up." get ready for bible studies. The annoyance...

Grabs bible proceeds to bible study. At the study you feel so alive and filled with the holyspirit the uncle leading the study literally had an halo hovering over his head. As far as I was concern. Then you go home feeling recharged.

The circle continues, until one day. You leave soccer, wash up. carry bible. Get to the location and find out that uncle has impregnated the top star in bible verses. The shock got my head spinning. My youthful naiveté was hereby violated.

I remember how they kept throwing around 1st corinthians or Matt 18. Because young bible star was in her early teens and uncle was in his mid twenties. The way the elders were blaming the devil got me worried.

Of course, the next uncles and aunties that led any bible study had no more halos. Every one became a suspect of backsliding and falling inside Aunty sarah's honey or mistakenly sitting on uncle john's banana out of wedlock.

How did these experiences disprove the existence of God?

I used to have my doubts. I wondered whether my belief in a God was only because I had been told so. Today I harbor no such thoughts. I have experienced firsthand the miraculous. I just had to admit: it could only have been God.

One question for the logical thinkers: Have you ever seen an intelligently designed product that has no maker? If no, why do u think Man or the universe so intricately crafted would have no creator?

P0intBlank:


How did these experiences disprove the existence of God?

*sign*.......i will pardon your mistake. Kindly go back and read my previous post.

Anyhow sha, me no be atheist. I know many Gods.. But I'm free from abrahamic bondage..

GooseBaba:
I remember playing soccer as a young dude. You know when soccer don dey sweet enter body. Then you hear go in and wash up." get ready for bible studies. The annoyance...

Grabs bible proceeds to bible study. At the study you feel so alive and filled with the holyspirit the uncle leading the study literally had an halo hovering over his head. As far as I was concern. Then you go home feeling recharged.

The circle continues, until one day. You leave soccer, wash up. carry bible. Get to the location and find out that uncle has impregnated the top star in bible verses. The shock got my head spinning. My youthful naiveté was hereby violated.

I remember how they kept throwing around 1st corinthians or Matt 18. Because young bible star was in her early teens and uncle was in his mid twenties. The way the elders were blaming the devil got me worried.

Of course, the next uncles and aunties that led any bible study had no more halos. Every one became a suspect of backsliding and falling inside Aunty sarah's honey or mistakenly sitting on uncle john's banana out of wedlock.

I already knew pastors who lied and drank strong liquor as a child. But there were scriptures which anticipated and addressed those scenarios accordingly. Those things had little effect on my faith.
It was the scriptures which led me away from blind belief. Things didn't add up, starting with that Mary and Joseph story.

The Bible is a composite of several books which politically motivated humans subjectively arranged together. They decided to omit some, change the words in others, and conceal the rest. These books were already recordings of stories passed down orally. After the politicians got their hands on them, they became useless.

what if God was one of us... it would seem odd that this supreme omniscient phenomenon is ironically modeled after this Human Character . We are created in (not from) his image according to religion. (to walk rather than exist and to think rather than know)
Whenever we are in shock as a result of one of his petulant "human-like" traits.. we think it divine wisdom. The more I try to make sense of it, the farther "sense" flees away from me. after decades of chasing my tail.. I concluded.

1: The more knowledge we gain, the better our thought-sight gets. We are purposed for storing data and turning it into insight - Let us Function as designed
2: My ways are not your ways and neither my thoughts - But they are monsignor.. they are. it is inevitable.. man will express himself the only way GOD can... CREATE
3: This existence could all be a little quark swimming in a universe within a cell performing some nondescript function within ... OR
4: We are simply a petri-dish for some alien beings looking for answers just as we

make una no vex.. I was long insane before madness caged me

Atheists neither hear nor understand the Word.

P0intBlank:


One question for the logical thinkers: Have you ever seen an intelligently designed product that has no maker? If no, why do u think Man or the universe so intricately crafted would have no creator?

First of all, your question does not address the issue of the talking god. For example, let's say I agree with you and accept the fact that we were designed by aN intelligent creator. You still have to prove that this intelligent designer told bronze age Jews to write a book. You still have to prove that the intelligent designer is talking to you.

Secondly, intelligently designed things in life don't have a personal relationship with their creators. Steve Jobs didn't create the iPhone so that he could reward or punish it later. The phone has a purpose. If you're going to point to what we observe in nature, then you must describe the whole picture.

On first impression, a Rolex watch looks like it was made by something with consciousness. That is true. But there is an additional factor that requires equal consideration. Humans don't design Rolexes to talk to it. Designed products have a purpose.

Weah96:


I already knew pastors who lied and drank strong liquor as a child. But there were scriptures which anticipated and addressed those scenarios accordingly. Those things had little effect on my faith.
It was the scriptures which led me away from blind belief. Things didn't add up, starting with that Mary and Joseph story.

The Bible is a composite of several books which politically motivated humans subjectively arranged together. They decided to omit some, change the words in others, and conceal the rest. These books were already recordings of stories passed down orally. After the politicians got their hands on them, they became useless.

I guess it depends on the brand/denomination. A Church that frowns on worldly things, alcohol is seen as the devil's tool.

And back then pastors preached alot about salvation they were not rich nor did they preach about riches. All they had was their word and their character. But as a kid, these are the quality one emulates. But when someone you placed on such high moral compass falls short. It chips away that respect or fear one has for them.

But when they say do as say, not as i do. As a kid I saw biblical chancing.. This was way before I knew the book for what it is. A control mechanism.

GooseBaba:


I guess it depends on the brand/denomination. A Church that frowns on worldly things, alcohol is seen as the devil's tool.

And back then pastors preached alot about salvation they were not rich nor did they preach about riches. All they had was their word and their character. But as a kid, these are the quality one emulates. But when someone you placed on such high moral compass falls short. It chips away that respect or fear one has for them.

But when they say do as say, not as i do. As a kid I saw biblical chancing.. This was way before I knew the book for what it is. A control mechanism.

So it was the deception of a trusted MOG that precipitated your eventual renunciation? You were extremely fortunate. Back then, I could have found numerous scriptures which would predict the behavior of such a MOG. It wouldn't have influenced me in the least. I would still be a mental slave.

UyiIredia:
Funny, someone thinks he's more rational by ditching a position that tells you you were creates to accepting one that says you came from ape ancestors. I think it best they sleep with the fishes. They are already doing that.

do you mean sleeping with the fishes like Luca Brasi?

I love this thread didn't know there were so many free thinking intellectual Nigerians out there!
I'm thinking of starting an Atheists society of Nigeria on here but I think we might get lynched by the religionists


I officially abandoned the notion of a god last year after many years of confusion and skepticism for both acientific and personal reasons. Scientific reasons being the lack of substantial proof and personal reasons being the lack of the so called hand of God in my life and the lives of suffereing family members and friends. If there is any kind loving God or justice above the skies surely human beings wouldn't be made to face horrible suffereing here on earth and then even more suffering in the afterlife only because they were unfortunate enough to not be indoctrinated into the church of God.


My dear religionists, ask yourselves this,
Are you not at least 99% atheist? After all you believe in only one out of the many thousands of gods whose religions also offer the option of eternal suffereing in the after life? What makes your own dogma more true than the others?
When there are Muslims willing to bomb and kill people for the sake of Allah what makes you think your own religion is more verifiable.

If there is a god, you and I have about as much chance of ending up in anyone of the various hells on offer

crackjoor:

do you mean sleeping with the fishes like Luca Brasi?

No. I mean it in a different way.

UyiIredia:

No. I mean it in a different way.

Ok.

Weah96:


I was a believer. The story was an indication that the book couldn't be inerrant. If the Bible is not inerrant, then there's no point to it. After all, It was written by the infinity infinity boss of all knowledge.

What does biblical innerancy have to do with Theism as opposed to Atheism? ? ?

Are there not a great many theists of religions all over the world (including so called pagans) who do not source their theism from the Bible?
Are there not even ardent Christians who do not believe in biblical inerrancy?

I am not a religious person, I was once Christian - and yet I do not believe in biblical innerancy.
It appears that the reasons you have given for your atheism so far do not even scratch the surface of the meaning of the word "atheism"

You are basically saying that the fact that one book - the Bible - contains flaws - shows that the creationist worldview is irrational and the atheistic worldview is rational. Now, how rational does such an argument sound to you?

Weah96:


So it was the deception of a trusted MOG that precipitated your eventual renunciation? You were extremely fortunate. Back then, I could have found numerous scriptures which would predict the behavior of such a MOG. It wouldn't have influenced me in the least. I would still be a mental slave.

Ol boy you be genius ohhh... You mean to say by 11 or 12 years old,You had such in depth knowledge of the control book.

It was the actions that made me seek answers from the bible, I remember as a kid I kept waiting to see when my tribe or tribes of my friends would be discussed. Simple things like that created a vacuum. That this book was incomplete. How can the God" of the world not talk about tribes around me.all this question and experiences left to seeking answers from the book. Of course, the answers you get from elders or the one you make up to support the book was simply excuses.

My journey to freedom from abrahamic bondage was mostly about my personal experiences. By taking communion in a church and been challenged for it because I was not a member. So you go to the book. Being called a gentile by a foreigner in a derogatory manner. You go to the book. And when I chose to stop subjecting myself to the narrative of the book or making excuses for it....slippery slope...

DeepSight:


What does biblical innerancy have to do with Theism as opposed to Atheism? ? ?

You are basically saying that the fact that one book - the Bible - contains flaws - shows that the creationist worldview is irrational and the atheistic worldview is rational. Now, how rational does such an argument sound to you?

Christians believe that god speaks to human beings. The Bible is a compilation of those speeches. If the Bible can betray flaws of its human origins, such as making an error, then it's not divinely commissioned.

As a Christian who never spoke to god myself, the Bible served as the proof of his conversations with human beings. Once I realised that it contained errors, there was only one outcome available. Skepticism. I began to question everything. That was when I discovered that I was not alone, the god wasn't talking to anyone. It was all an elaborate fabrication.

My experience on NL has reinforced that discovery. When confronted with my accusation of telling lies, Christians here ask me to prove that they are NOT speaking to god. That's all the edvdence I need.

P0intBlank:
I used to have my doubts. I wondered whether my belief in a God was only because I had been told so. Today I harbor no such thoughts. I have experienced firsthand the miraculous. I just had to admit: it could only have been God.

One question for the logical thinkers: Have you ever seen an intelligently designed product that has no maker? If no, why do u think Man or the universe so intricately crafted would have no creator?

God is an intelligent design to does that mean he has a maker to??

Weah96:


Christians believe that god speaks to human beings. The Bible is a compilation of those speeches. If the Bible can betray flaws of its human origins, such as making an error, then it's not divinely commissioned.

As a Christian who never spoke to god myself, the Bible served as the proof of his conversations with human beings. Once I realised that it contained errors, there was only one outcome available. Skepticism. I began to question everything. That was when I discovered that I was not alone, the god wasn't talking to anyone. It was all an elaborate fabrication.

My experience on NL has reinforced that discovery. When confronted with my accusation of telling lies, Christians here ask me to prove that they are NOT speaking to god. That's all the edvdence I need.

1. How old are you, if you do not mind my asking. I ask for a reason, please - and not to offend you please.

2. Your argument is still centred around the the flaws in the bible, the fact that its a human work (obviously) etc. You need to expand your view.

As far as I am concerned, and from what I can see, you do not even yet have a basic idea of the meaning of words such as "God" - "Creationist" - "Theist" - "Atheist"

Or, there has been nothing in your posts to indicate that you do. Everything in your posts strongly suggests that either you do not know the meaning of any of these words at all, or you have never really given any serious thought to the subject you are attempting to address yourself to.

To convince us otherwise, please can you attempt a rebuttal of the basic creationist worldview - without referring to the bible or its flaws at all. Let that be a starting point at least.

plaetton:


First of all, happy new year sire.
It's been a long long while.
How are you?

Riding the rough waves of life, my dear brother.

A happy New year to you sir.
It has indeed been a while.

It's a funny coincidence that I remembered you today, and was thinking that you might been caught up in one of those INFINITY loops in the other universe.

Oh I don't believe in coincidences, it was perhaps a strong thought wave, yes I was in an infinity loop in another universe.

plaetton:


Holding an absolute worldview on core existential issues, without first availing oneself of the benefit of study and analysis, is the definition of irrationality.

Who told you religionists have not availed themselves of study and analysis?

Do you have any idea the level of thought, study, meditation, inquiry, rebuttal, councils, and institutions of learning that have evolved religions over the centuries? The whole of Western Civilization today owes a great deal to Institutions of Religion and Institutions developed by religious bodies. This same is true for the middle east, India, and most of the far East.

Do you have any Idea how many ancient universities were commissioned by Christian and Islamic authorities? Do you have any idea the advancements in theology, astronomy, and the arts and sciences put forward by these institutions?

It is very easy for you to sit back in your arm chair with your less than a century old life and proclaim that these religions have not put "study and analysis" into the matter of the existence of God. Very easy indeed, i tell you, but most presumptuous, you will find.

There was a time I looked with awful scorn on the general teachings of the Catholic Church. I no longer do so - even though I still do not agree with their teachings. The truth is simply that if you delve deep into the Catechism of the Roman Church, you will find a deep, and even severe level of study and analysis which has taken centuries to build and reform and it is only an arrogant or presumptuous person who would think otherwise - namely - to think that there has not been study and analysis involved in their theist worldview.

Three other important thoughts.

1. Remember that the "study and analysis" here only, as per this discussion is for the purpose of the Theistic discussion only and not for the general body of religionist teachings on other matters.

2. Remember that although I used the Catholic Church as an example, the same applies to religions all over the world. As per the Theistic matter, who told you that there has not been "study and analysis" involved in the worldview of Muslims, Hindus, and all sorts of other traditional and ethnic theistic religions all over the world? What gives you the right to presume so? Something tells me its simply the fact that they have a different point of view from yours.

A person who thinks that someone such as Richard Dawkins has given more "study and analysis" to the matter of the existence of God than the Institution of the Catholic Church has, is, to the the least, and unschooled person.

3. MOST IMPORTANTLY - Remember that over and above "study and analysis" - as important as these may be - the truth is that the human being has an instinctive and intuitive recognition of the existence of its Creator and other invisible beings. This is why the Theistic point view has been the default view of humanity from time immemorial and till this day. In truth, you and your atheistic folk form only a a minuscule and even deviantly unreasonable sect in a world that overwhelmingly recognizes the obvious. This is not to say though, that the majority view is always right, however in the matter of the recognition of God, it is a basic and fundamental instinct built into the human being. This is why a great poster on this forum (Justcool) once described being atheist as being "unhuman" (not inhuman - there is a difference).

everydayperson:
what if God was one of us... it would seem odd that this supreme omniscient phenomenon is ironically modeled after this Human Character . We are created in (not from) his image according to religion. (to walk rather than exist and to think rather than know)
Whenever we are in shock as a result of one of his petulant "human-like" traits.. we think it divine wisdom. The more I try to make sense of it, the farther "sense" flees away from me. after decades of chasing my tail.. I concluded.

1: The more knowledge we gain, the better our thought-sight gets. We are purposed for storing data and turning it into insight - Let us Function as designed
2: My ways are not your ways and neither my thoughts - But they are monsignor.. they are. it is inevitable.. man will express himself the only way GOD can... CREATE
3: This existence could all be a little quark swimming in a universe within a cell performing some nondescript function within ... OR
4: We are simply a petri-dish for some alien beings looking for answers just as we

make una no vex.. I was long insane before madness caged me

I totally feel you, and no you are not insane, anyone who does not have these thoughts is simply a thoughtless person.

Weah96:

The talking god who writes books, is a falsifiable claim.

How so? Please go ahead and falsify it. I'd like to see you do so.

I've never seen so much ignorance in one thread .I'm not sure why one atheist will have numerous accounts - male and female . Who the heck is TheProphetess . JackBizzle is that you ? sonofLucifer ? Cos "she" reasons like both of you . Anyway uncle plaetton continue with the bigoted post , they will surely come in handy .