Contact17 you liked his post because he said I'm not good at guessing ba? DiarisGod ooo

busar:
I won't say anything .... I comment my reserved

I got it!

lexiconkabir:


I got it!

Says who?

Need to commend lexiconkabir and contact17 for the great job you both are doing in this section, جزاكم الله خيرا

Wa iyak busar, but she is to be commended more, she does the most part.

wa iyak ya busar

@lexiconkabir no I don't agree. It just that I'm a little free now.

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with "Jalabi". The problem is malpractices which can be in form of worldly and spiritual sin.

Worldly & spiritual sin in the sense of scamming people, using human body parts or haram means to prepare antidote for some individual. This may lead to arrest and punishable offence. It is also sin punishable offence in akhira unless Allah forgives. As for predicting something for heir cleints, again, it is not all that that is sinful. There is a trace of possible prediction in Islam (Sunnah). This however depends on level of iman. Prophet Muhammad - sallalahu alaiy wasalam said "fear the firasa of mumin; because when he sees, he sees with his internal eyes".

"Jalabi" has traces in hadith. Although name is different but the essence is in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Today however, Jalabi is abused and hijacked by criminals. Not every disease is curable by modern or orthodox medicine. The problems Muslims have today is we are reading Qur'an and hadith/sunnah literally and neglect practical aspect. We read "prophetic medicine" in the Sunnah but when it comes to practical aspect or applying them practically, we are lost. We turn to the West and India for remedy while we have our own solution. We need to be careful not to generalize even amongst Jalabi people. There are different levels of Iman in Islam. So not everything we see that we do not comprehend is false or UN-Islamic.

What we need to curb is malpractices

Wallahu Ta'ala Alam

Empiree:
The thing is, there is nothing wrong with "Jalabi". The problem is malpractices which can be in form of worldly and spiritual sin.

Worldly & spiritual sin in the sense of scamming people, using human body parts or haram means to prepare antidote for some individual. This may lead to arrest and punishable offence. It is also sin punishable offence in akhira unless Allah forgives.

"Jalabi" has traces in hadith. Although name is the only difference but the essence is in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Today however, Jalabi is abused and hijacked by criminals. Not every disease is curable by modern or orthodox medicine. The problems Muslim have today is we are reading Qur'an and hadith/sunnah literally and neglect practical aspect. We read "prophetic medicine" in the Sunnah but when it comes to practical aspect we are lost. We turn to the West and India for remedy while we have our own solution. We need to be careful not to generalize even amongst Jalabi people. There are different levels of Iman in Islam. Not everything we see that we do not comprehend is false or UN-Islamic.

What we need to curb is malpractices

Wallahu Ta'ala Alam

I am sorry but I don't understand your post and it's relation to the topic. Perhaps it's angle I am reading it from?
The topic discussed going to Alfas for fortune telling (which is kufar and shirk) and prayer. It never discussed ruqyah or healing from the sunnah.

Contact17:


I am sorry but I don't understand your post and it's relation to the topic. Perhaps it's angle I am reading it from?
The topic discussed going to Alfas for fortune telling (which is kufar and shirk) and prayer. It never discussed ruqyah or healing from the sunnah.

If they are into this you can't call them Alfa to begin with. You better of to call 'em "Alu Ifa". It's oximoron otherwise.

Empiree:
If they are into this you can't call them Alfa to begin with. You better of to call 'em "Alu Ifa". It's oximoron otherwise.

Empiree:
The thing is, there is nothing wrong with "Jalabi". The problem is malpractices which can be in form of worldly and spiritual sin.

Worldly & spiritual sin in the sense of scamming people, using human body parts or haram means to prepare antidote for some individual. This may lead to arrest and punishable offence. It is also sin punishable offence in akhira unless Allah forgives. As for prdcting something for heir cleint, again, it is not all that that is sinful. There is a trace of pssible prediction in Islam (Sunnah). This however depends on level of iman. Prophet Muhammad - sallalahu alaiy wasalam said "fear the firasa of mumin; because when he sees, he sees with his internal eyes".

"Jalabi" has traces in hadith. Although name is different but the essence is in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Today however, Jalabi is abused and hijacked by criminals. Not every disease is curable by modern or orthodox medicine. The problems Muslims have today is we are reading Qur'an and hadith/sunnah literally and neglect practical aspect. We read "prophetic medicine" in the Sunnah but when it comes to practical aspect or applying them practically, we are lost. We turn to the West and India for remedy while we have our own solution. We need to be careful not to generalize even amongst Jalabi people. There are different levels of Iman in Islam. So not everything we see that we do not comprehend is false or UN-Islamic.

What we need to curb is malpractices

Wallahu Ta'ala Alam

and in this era what is jalabi known as?

however whatever that cannot be proven from the Quran or the Sunnah is what we will go against.

lexiconkabir:




however whatever that cannot be proven from the Quran or the Sunnah is what we will go against.

The essence of Jalabi is IWOSAN. Forget about the name itself. That's nothing. Names of things have changed overtime. If you go to hospitals, names of some things have changed compared to 90s and beyond. Same thing with computer. New computers have USB. The old ones have different ports (round ) but they perform the same function.

Likewise, Quran mentions Ihsan (perfection or purification ) but in Islamic spirituality as we know it today as at-tassawuf or sufism (mythica) is not mention is kitab and Sunnah but the essence is there in the kitab and sunnah.

So jalabi is just a name. I do not know where the word "jalabi" is derived from. But I know the essence. The essence is proven many places in the Quran. Doesn't Quran speaks of "shiffa" a lot? . It says Quran is medicine and healing. This can be both physical and spiritual. Also using leafs for medicine, cure are all proven from the kitab. Quran speaks of leafs, trees etc are not there for fun. They are meant to be used for physical and spiritual problems. If the problems have to be solved by sacrificing animal, the animal must be slaughtered by Shariah injunctions and devoted to Allah alone. This is also proven in the kitab that you can slaughter animal for physical or spiritual healings. Even for material gains

This is also proven in the Sunnah where some Sahaba went out on a trip and came across people who refused to give them water. One of those inhabitants of the land was stung by scorpion or snake. The sahabat helped them healed the wound by extracting the poison with words. Did the prophet (saw) teach them what to say?. Did they receive order from the prophet before they carried out the procedure? . The answer is no. They used their Ijtihad. So the people who refused to give them water now asked for the price for their service? . They gave them sheep I think. When you do jalabi you get paid isn't?.

When they came back home and narrated their ordeal to the prophet (saw), he asked them who taught them what to say to cure the problem? . The said Quran is HEALING. Thereafter the prophet (saw) asked for his fair share of the sheep

This proves that not everything you have to have exact face value for in the sunnah before you carry out voluntary acts, so long as it has isnad in the Quran. If you want hadith for the narration above I can easily provide it. The hadith proves essence of jalabi. But if somee people abuse it today. ....that doesn't negate its essence. Abuse is malpractice, doesn't necessarily mean shirk unless they devoted the service for other than Allah. Jalabi is IWOSAN.

Islam is based on Kitab, Sunnah and Ijtihad.

I already said this like 2x here before. Orthodox medicine doesn't solve everything. Some people are transported back from USA, UK etc to nija for proper care through jalabi. Islam is to be understood in its BROAD context. Otherwise we may be missing out.

and in this era what is jalabi known as?

There are malpractices in everything. Physicians in modern world have abused their positions. Did authority ban hospitals because these doctors abuse their position?. La. We should rather coordinate it rather than throwing baby out with water.

In as much as its very tempting to reply you, i would rather forget it, i dont want to derail this thread since its not for jalabi discussion....

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri and Ibn Abbas (RA) reported that a number of the Prophet's (Peace and Blessing upon Him) companions were on a journey. They stopped one night by the dwellings of a bedouin tribe who refused to host them and give them food.

The chief of that tribe was then stung (by a snake or scorpion). His people tried everything possible to treat him, but to no avail. One of them suggested to seek help from the travellers. When they came to them, one of them said, "By Allah, I can perform ruqyah; but you have refused to host us. So I would not perform the ruqyah until you pledge to give us an offering."

They agreed to give them a flock of thirty sheep, and the companion started blowing (with light spit) on the stung man's sting and reading al-Fatiha. He was immediately cured, like one who was tied and then set free. He stood and walked as if nothing happened to him, and they gave them their pledged offering.

Some of the companions said, "Let us divide this flock among us." Others said, "No, you may not take any pay for reading Allah's Book! Let us not divide the goats until we reach the Prophet (Peace and Blessing upon Him), tell him what happened, and see what he commands us."

When they reached al-Madinah, they came to the Prophet (Peace and Blessing upon Him) and told him what happened. He said (approvingly):

'How did you know that it (al-Fatiha) is a ruqyah? You have done well! And indeed, the best thing to be paid for is Allah's Book*. So, divide it among you; and allot a share for me.' Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and others.

@ Lexiconkabir you have my permission to derail.
Someone else might become confused

^ Jazakallahu khayran for quoting the hadith.

Yes, it is not about Jalabi thread exclusively but it does have trait though

There are other ahadith reflecting the practice of "jalabi" . But forget about malpractices. That's not useful here

Empiree:
There are other ahadith reflecting the practice of "jalabi" . But forget about malpractices. That's not useful here

The topic was written to expose malpractices so that the people may gain knowledge and stay away from misguidance.

.

Contact17:


The topic was written to expose malpractices so that the people may gain knowledge and stay away from misguidance.

Okay, i understand now. The reason i brought this up is bcus some brothers have attacked "jalabi" in the past, that there i nothing like that in islam. Which is wrong far as i know. Yes, malpractices exist especially with everything just messed up now. Nigerian economy contributes big time. So i am saying it is not wise to cancel out jalabi entirely. They have critical (positive) impact in nigeria. We also have to understand that we human are not all in the same level of iman. So "Do It Yourself" doesn't ALWAYS work for some. Some of us need help from others. They just need to get the right jalabi. Far as i am concern, I never really do jalabi with anyone. I only gained deep experience growing up. They do jalabi in the US and Canada very well. Even if they involved in malpractice in the West and they happen to violate the law, the law will take its course

For the topic, what can deduce from that is that it is wrong for muslim to make it his daily job to sit someplace and advertise himself for visits in order to predict the "future". This is wrong concept. And please don't mix that with waliy or people that Allah blessed with "FIRASA". People with firasa may also predict but they wont make it daily job. It is rather random with them and only when it is neccessary

Empiree:
For the topic, what can deduce from that is that it is wrong for muslim to make it his daily job to sit someplace and advertise himself for visits in order to predict the "future". This is wrong concept. And please don't mix that with waliy or people that Allah blessed with "FIRASA". People with firasa may also predict but they wont make it daily job. It is rather random with them and only when it is neccessary

Can you explain that? I know there are situations where truthful people may have true dreams as the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) mentioned that himself.

Empiree:
The essence of Jalabi is IWOSAN. Forget about the name itself. That's nothing. Names of things have changed overtime. If you go to hospitals, names of some things have changed compared to 90s and beyond. Same thing with computer. New computers have USB. The old ones have different ports (round ) but they perform the same function.

The people that do these "malpractices" call it "jalabi" so if truly you wanted us to forget about the name, then we mentioning the name as a malpractice shouldn't have given you a problem in the first place, everything must have a name, and the name this deviant Alfas call it is jalabi, which is what we will call it, any "iwosan" that has no isnad to the book of Allaah or the sunnah we will call it jalabi

Likewise Quran mentions Ihsan (perfection or purification ) but in Islamic spirituality as we know it today as at-tassawuf or sufism (mythica) is not mention is kitab and Sunnah but the essence is there in the kitab and sunnah.

Yes the essence tassawuf is there even if this term is not in the sharee'ah, but as far as your tassawuf dont have any link to Ath-thaqalain, it will be rejected, just like someone saying read yasin x200 so so and so will happen....

So jalabi is just a name. I do not know where the word "jalabi" is derived from. But I know the essence. The essence is proven many places in the Quran. Doesn't Quran speaks of "shiffa" a lot? . It says Quran is medicine and healing. This can be both physical and spiritual. Also using leafs for medicine, cure are all proven from the kitab. Quran speaks of leafs, trees etc are not there for fun. They are meant to be used for physical and spiritual problems. If the problems have to be solved by sacrificing animal, the animal may be slaughtered by Shariah injunctions and devoted to Allah alone. [s]This is also proven in the kitab that you can slaughter animal for physical or spiritual healings. Even for material gains[/s]

Empiree no one is saying that healing is not in islam, but do it in sharee'ah compliant way, that term jalabi is known for what i had said earlier, and that is what we will call it when referring to deviant alfas, sorry i had to strike that part out, you are mixing things up, what i know is act of charity brings healing too, so slaughtering an animal in order to feed people is charity, not that the slaughtering itself is the main thing.

This is also proven in the Sunnah where some Sahaba went out on a trip and came across people who refused to give them water. One of those inhabitants of the land was stung by scorpion or snake. The sahabat helped them healed the wound by extracting the poison with words. Did the prophet (saw) teach them what to say?. Did they receive order from the prophet before they carried out the procedure? . The answer is no. They used their Ijtihad. So the people who refused to give them water now asked for the price for their service? . They gave them sheep I think. When you do jalabi you get paid isn't?.

That case ia different, the prophet was around to authenticate what they did, as we know ijtihad is done in cases where we have no ruling from Quran or sunnah, but once there is clear evidence, no more ijtihad, follow the clear evidence, now in the case of the sahabas the prophet was still receiving wahy, so we cant compare it with today, where the religion is complete.

Now, did the sahabas established a place where they do "jalabi" after the incident like these deviant alfas do today?

When they came back home and narrated their ordeal to the prophet (saw), he asked them who taught them what to say to cure the problem? . The said Quran is HEALING. Thereafter the prophet (saw) asked for his fair share of the sheep

The silence of the prophet here means what they did is correct, we have cases where the sahabas did ijtihad that were wrong and were later corrected by the prophet, like the case of a sahabi that killed his offering before salaah eid, tje prophet corrected him.

This proves that not everything you have to have exact face value for in the sunnah before you carry out voluntary acts, so long as it has isnad in the Quran. If you want hadith for the narration above I can easily provide it. The hadith proves essence of jalabi. But if somee people abuse it today. ....that doesn't negate its essence. Abuse is malpractice, doesn't necessarily mean shirk unless they devoted the service for other than Allah. Jalabi is IWOSAN.

i will keep saying it, nobody is denying the essense of healing from the Quran and Sunnah, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

Islam is based on Kitab, Sunnah and Ijtihad.

Ijtihad of pious salaf, not just anybody, once there is clear proof the ijtihad will be discarded, and as it is, I'm yet to see any salaf that established a place where he "heals" people a.k.a jalabi.

I already said this like 2x here before. Orthodox medicine doesn't solve everything. Some people are transported back from USA, UK etc to nija for proper care through jalabi. Islam is to be understood in its BROAD context. Otherwise we may be missing out.

Ok, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

There are malpractices in everything. Physicians in modern world have abused their positions. Did authority ban hospitals because these doctors abuse their position?. La. We should rather coordinate it rather than throwing baby out with water.

As far as i know, if someone says jalabi, we all know what it means, so if i describe jalabi as what i described earlier. I'm nor wrong because this is what our society knows it as.

@ contact17, i hope you enjoying this and you do not see it as derailment

lexiconkabir:


The people that do these "malpractices" call it "jalabi" so if truly you wanted us to forget about the name, then we mentioning the name as a malpractice shouldn't have given you a problem in the first place, everything must have a name, and the name this deviant Alfas call it is jalabi, which is what we will call it, any "iwosan" that has no isnad to the book of Allaah or the sunnah we will call it jalabi

I dont think you get my point. A doctor will ALWAYS be doctor even if he/she is fraudulent quack doctor. A doctor who abuses his position is also addressed by that not another name. Even if he goes to jail will always be referred to as a doctor.. Name is not the problem. If you invent another name to identify those who malpractice, a new name you invent will also be abused. It doesn't make any difference. Jalabi is Jalabi. The reason modern nigerian alfa see it in negative term is because of the abusers. But if you go to the real ones, they also claim Jalabi. They address those who abuse it simply as abusers. The name doesnt change.

Yes the essence tassawuf is there even if this term is not in the sharee'ah, but as far as your tassawuf dont have any link to Ath-thaqalain, it will be rejected,

See, again, you still dont get it. You can't invent another name or cancel it out just bcus some abuse it. Tassawuf will always be tassawuf. Essence is what matters. Islam is seen in a negative light all over the world but do we change its name bcus of that? No. Tassawuf is base on Kitab and Sunnah but if someone is doing something silly but claims it is "tassawuf", that his problem. You simply single out the person. This Is why Sheik Adam ilory(ra) said,

"People claim that I am a sufi (practitioner of tasawwuf). I respond, "Yes, I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf refers to knowledge, action, compassion, spiritual ecstasy, orthodox belief, and Divinely inspired knowledge. I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf is but an elaboration of Ihsan (inner goodness & excellence), the third part of the true path completed by Islam (outward practice) and Iman (faith).”

"I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf indicates the purification of the soul with mandated acts of obedience to God accompanied by voluntary acts performed seeking Divine proximity. I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf means struggling to overcome the ego and emigrating from sin, due to the saying of Prophet Muhammad (God bless and grant peace to him and his family): 'The true emigrant is the one who emigrates from sin and the true warrior is the one who battles against base desires.'

"I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf means indifference to what is with people and yearning for that which is with God. And I am a sufi only if tasawwuf signifies the unveiling of unseen realities and inspired knowledge of God the Creator.

https://www.nairaland.com/2042359/shaykh-adam-abdullah-al-ilory

See what the Sheik said, did he change the name from "tassawuf"?. He focused on essence. Thats what matters. Remember different sects we have today, they all started with good intention. As time goes, some people derailed. Sufi today is seen in a bad light but the good ones dont cease to be called sufis. Same with Salafis, they have bad tags today, but the good ones dont cease to be called Salafis. Same here with Jalabi.The least you could say is "the so called jalabis". This indicates you are referring to pseudo jalabis. Understand now?. You seem to focus attention on the name which doesnt really effect me. A bad politician will always be called politician. His/her title doesn't change.

just like someone saying read yasin x200 so so and so will happen....

You see, i think you need to understand one thing. Sufism/tassawuf/Ihsan or simply "islamic spirituality" is the scientific and spiritual heart of Islam. Without it, islam is finished. You may say there is no dalil for the counts in kitab and sunnah for specific number of recitation. This is rather literal understanding of religious text. First all, there are some duas in hadith with counts recommended by the prophet(saw). But if you refered to this specific one, then, I am going to ask you this,

When you visit a doctor and he/she prescribes a medication or you buy a box of pills and it says on the label to use 2 pills in the morning, 3 pills in the afternoon, 1 pill at night. You take it exactly like that bcus you trust them, isnt?. On the label, they write that "do not exceed the limits prescribed". You believe them, isnt?. And truly, if you exceed the limit it becomes overdose and that's detrimental to your body. We all follow doctor's instructions on the box of the pills, correct?. So when alfa gives you Yasin to recite 200 times, he knows what he's doing. The counts they give may not directly written in hadith but this is gotten from their "firasa". Remember, it is the people that do dhirk a lot who know this stuff. What does the Qur'an says about them? The answer is here (Quran 21:07)

If you exceed the limit, you will notice strange result. We talked about this before in "Jinn Stories" thread. If you exceed the limit given, your body may overheat. Ask s.ino about this. So my point is, you trusted a non-muslim doctor who tells you to take 2 pills in the morning. Why dont you challenge him where and how he came about the counts?

no one is saying that healing is not in islam, but do it in sharee'ah compliant way

Of Course. Is there anything have said in conflict with Sharia here?,

that term jalabi is known for what i had said earlier, and that is what we will call it when referring to deviant alfas,

Same thing. Bcus it is tagged with deviant alfas does not make Jalabi itself evil. You dont throw the baby away with water. There is ALWAYS going to be abusers. We can't do anything about it for now. You can only expose individual in the dirty tricks

you are mixing things up, what i know is act of charity brings healing too, so slaughtering an animal in order to feed people is charity, not that the slaughtering itself is the main thing.

I dont know how i mixed things up. And of course, i dont dispute @ underlined. Slaughtering itself is simply sacrifice. Quran talks about whatever you sacrifice (with good intention) Allah knows. The meat is distributed to people. In some cases, the one who sacrifices the animal does not eat from it. It Is the same procedure with ileya sacrificial animal. Nothing really peculiar

That case ia different, the prophet was around to authenticate what they did, as we know ijtihad is done in cases where we have no ruling from Quran or sunnah, but once there is clear evidence, no more ijtihad, follow the clear evidence, now in the case of the sahabas the prophet was still receiving wahy, so we cant compare it with today, where the religion is complete.

So where is clear evidence that muslims who condemn "Jalabi" follow today?. Do they exploit prophetic medicines or simply flown themselves to the West for treatment?. Yeye de smell. They have instead abandoned prophetic medicines but criticize those who explore them. What they do is only read the texts but dont know the practical aspect.

Now, did the sahabas established a place where they do "jalabi" after the incident like these deviant alfas do today?

Again, this comparison doesn't work. Prophet was in their midst. His presence with them was enough for all of them. Today, population of muslims is way out of hand. You may as well criticize why they have modern hospitals, that, it did not exist in the time of the prophet(saw). That's also a fixed place to visit. I have said time and again that TIME changes things. What it does not change it ESSENCE

The silence of the prophet here means what they did is correct, we have cases where the sahabas did ijtihad that were wrong and were later corrected by the prophet, like the case of a sahabi that killed his offering before salaah eid, tje prophet corrected him.

Bottomline is, if a jalabi is doing his stuff within the boundaries of Shari'ah, Bismillah. That's my point

i will keep saying it, nobody is denying the essense of healing from the Quran and Sunnah, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

Good. My point. But you have failed to show us "shariah way" of IWOSAN
(JALABI)

Ijtihad of pious salaf, not just anybody, once there is clear proof the ijtihad will be discarded, and as it is, I'm yet to see any salaf that established a place where he "heals" people a.k.a jalabi.

Again, you missed the point. Jalabi is IWOSAN. That should have cleared the air. If you cancel it out, which is exactly what modern muslims are doing in the name of Qur'an and Sunnah", they make us rely on kufar system. When you go to modern hospitals, most of which are non-muslims, you have no idea whats contained in the pills they prescribed to you.Yet you believe them and take the medicines. But you have problems with muslims doing the same even if it is local way?. Understand that those pills and soaps you use contain animal product. This can be pork as well. But we trust them anyways bcus it is "modern", isnt?

Ok, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

How do you know that ALL the JALABIS are non-sharia complaints?

As far as i know, if someone says jalabi, we all know what it means, so if i describe jalabi as what i described earlier. I'm nor wrong because this is what our society knows it as.

That's the problem. It is what people want to believe. It is the same like telling non-muslims that islam is peaceful but if he/she doesn't want to believe bcus of what he/she sees in the media, he/she wont. It is "modern alfas" who themselves were brought up through Jalabi came out of nowhere screaming "Quran and Sunnah" everywhere that are messing things up. Even if they are correct, they do not use wisdom to solve the problem. They condemn Jalabi instead of fishing out the crooks among them
Hope you understand?

Empiree I was with you until you mentioned

"So when alfa gives you Yasin to recite 200 times, he knows what he's doing. The counts they give may not directly written in hadith but this is gotten from their "firasa".

This is how innovation usually starts. Does the Alfa know more than the one whom the Qur'an was revealed to? If the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) didn't say that reciting certain verses would cause a certain thing to happen. Then who is the Alfa to say that? It is similar to people sending messages that saying the shahada 100 will bring good luck. Where did they get that from?

All innovations/ bid’ah introduced into the religion are bad and are not accepted by Allah, as the prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated repeatedly that: "Every newly-invented thing is a bid'ah (innovation), every bid'ah is a going astray, and every going astray will be in the Fire." (Reported by al-Nisaa'i in al-Sunan, Salaat al-'Eedayn, Baab kayfa al-Khutbah). Reports with the same meaning were narrated via Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ahmad, via al-'Irbaad ibn Saariyah by Abu Dawud and via Ibn Mas'ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ibn Maajah..


Alufa/Alfa- is a widely used word for a Muslim scholar (and occasionally any Muslim) not just in Yorubaland but in Nupeland, Borgu, Igalaland, Ebiraland, etc
A Muslim scholar is expected to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah not bring innovations.

"they make us rely on kufar system. When you go to modern hospitals, most of which are non-muslims, you have no idea whats contained in the pills they prescribed to you.Yet you believe them and take the medicines. But you have problems with muslims doing the same even if it is local way?. Understand that those pills and soaps you use contain animal product. This can be pork as well. But we trust them anyways bcus it is "modern",

Modern medicine isn't a Kufar system or do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? There are many Muslims and Muslim countries working hard out there is ensure that they are producing safe medication without using pigs. Usually if a medication contains pork- it will be labelled.
If by using local way you mean herbs, herbs is a form of medication and whoever practices using that should be learned in it.
Lastly if someone is using herbs to cure then they shouldn't bear the title of an Alfa because that is something completely different.

Empiree

^^ Really, I'll suggest you leave him alone, he has been debated severally on this "innovation" issue by brothers on this forum, but he still try to Polish it and try to make it look acceptable, by Allaah it wont be accepted! Debating him on this is a waste of time because all what i said to him are things he's heard before but because he gives his intellect precedence over kitab wa sunnah, he will try to force in these ideas to the Quran, and when he quote "scholars," he quotes soofees. Smh


He tried to force in salaatul faati into the Qur'an, what's more grievous than this? Audhubillaah!

Part of the reasons i was reluctant to reply him apart from derailment, he will still look for something to say no matter how proof is as clear as daylight to everyone...

No dobut there are good Alfas and bad Alfas so it's important to warn people misguidance.

.

Contact17:
Empir.ee I was with you until you mentioned


This is how innovation usually starts. Does the Alfa know more than the one whom the Qur'an was revealed to? If the prophet didn't say that reciting certain verses would cause a certain thing to happen. Then who is the Alfa to say that? It is similar to people sending messages that saying the shahada 100 will bring good luck. Where did they get that from?

You see, the problem is to even imagine @underlined. Qur'an says some muslims know better than others. @underlined is the argument used to silent them. It doesn't make sense to me bcus those true Alfas dont claim such. There are duas in the hadith with counts tags on them. Usually some of the hadith would mention the benefits. Sometimes they dont. These types of ahadith are usually not found in the Sahih Bukhari and Muslims. This is very simple sister. Hadith is collection. Prophet (saw) did not say to follow Sahih Bukhari. He said "follow my sunnah". There are clearly some ahadith with mentions of reciting shahada xyz amounts. As for me, if someone recommends me to recite shahada 100x day for xyz result, i dont pay attention to xyz result. I pay attention to shahada itself. Why is that difficult?. Allah gives rewards he wants. If someone says it brings xyz benefits, I simply discount that and move on. It doesnt mean bid'ah. Nothing is bid'ah if it has isnad in the Qur'an. There are duas in the hadith mentioned with benefits

Alufa/Alfa- is a widely used word for a Muslim scholar (and occasionally any Muslim) not just in Yorubaland but in Nupeland, Borgu, Igalaland, Ebiraland, etc
A Muslim scholar is expected to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah not bring innovations.

Again, this goes back to just names. So far, you have not tell me exactly what "Alu ifa are doing. You said earlier they do shirk. Now you seems to divert a little. Whats going on? If they prescribe recitation of certain ayah for number of counts, that's not bid'ah. Counts have isnad in Hadith, The ayah they prescribed has isnad in the Qur'an. There is huge difference btw reading texting and practising what the text says. You only experience the reality (Haqiqah) through practicing not by reading text.

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Empiree:
You see, the problem is to even imagine @underlined. Qur'an says some muslims know better than the other. @underlined is the argument used to silent them. It doesn't make sense to me bcus those true Alfas dont claim such. There are duas in the hadith with counts tags on them. Usually some of the hadith would mention the benefits. Sometimes they dont. These types of ahadith are usually not found in the Sahih Bukhari and Muslims. This is very simple sister. Hadith is collection. Prophet (saw) did not say to follow Sahih Bukhari. He said "follow my sunnah". There are clearly some ahadith with mention of reciting shahada xyz amounts. As for me, if someone recommends me to recite shahada 100x day for xyz result, i dont pay attention to xyz result. I pay attention to shahada itself. Why is that difficult?. Allah gives rewards he wants. If someone says it brings xyz benefits, I simply discount that and move on. It doesnt mean bid'ah. Nothing is bid'ah if it has isnad in the Qur'an. There are duas in the hadith mentioned with benefits


Again, this goes back to just names. So far, you have not tell me exactly what "Alu ifa are doing. You said earlier they do shirk. Now you seems to divert a little. Whats going on? If they prescribe recitation of certain ayah for number of counts, that's not bid'ah. Counts have isnad in Hadith, The ayah they prescribed has isnad in the Qur'an. There is huge difference btw reading texting and practising what the text says. You only experience the reality (Hakiqah) through practicing not by reading text.

Empiree whats the definition of bid'ah? Pls i need a straightforward answer.