Afam:

I am sorry RichyBlack I will not be going down that route with you - endless diversions and questions without any end in sight.

I don't practice juju so cannot tell you the limits. I thought the issue was whether it exists or not? If correct, then your question about the limits is uncalled for.

Make no mistake about it, on this issue you goofed big time and the earlier you started reconciling the many contradictions you have gotten yourself into the better for you.

Let me break it down for you as regards the position on christianity and juju based on physical laws.

1. You believe in the stories in the bible that clearly defy physical laws based on faith.

2. You believe juju does not exist because it means it will defy physical laws based on science.

While you are at home with the two positions above let me prove the inconsistency and contradiction to you.

Now someone that believes and practices juju could hold a very valid position using the exact same logic you employed

1. The person would claim that he believes in juju even when they defy physical laws based on faith and even personal experience.

2. The person would (or could) claim that christianity is fraud simply because it defies physical laws based on logic.

In fact, the person who believes in juju would be more credible since he/she has personal experience or encounter that can add to the faith whereas in your own case the only thing you have is faith.

I wake up and sleep on science and technology. I challenge theories, I use them and I appreciate them. I also have faith and that gives me a cover for my christian belief. I have seen juju at work and based on my own understanding I believe it is more of evil powers than good powers otherwise I would have delved into it to understand how it works.

If any of the experiences had been based on good things I would have checked it out by getting into it.

You cannot claim that juju does not exist and yet be asking for people to prove it for you.

Personally, if I can make a categorical statement that something does not exist then asking for proof would mean either of two things

1. I am not even convinced in my statement

or

2. I am simply stupid and confused

For example, if I tell you that I am a man (because I have penis) and you tell me that it is a lie and ask me to prove that I am a man by getting naked and displaying my penis do you think I will do so just to prove you wrong? Nope, I will ignore your position and request because they simply don't make sense.

Put differently, if you claim you have 15 heads on your shoulders and I state it is a lie. Do you think I will ask you to prove that you have 15 heads for monetary rewards? Nope, I won't do that because the issue does not exist since I have already made up my mind that it is impossible.

So, anyone that claims that juju does not exist and is still looking for proof is either confused, silly or both as you cannot belong to both sides of the divide at the same time.

Afam,

The existence of juju is not the issue. Of course juju exists - all those charms people carry in their bags, tie around their wastes, head etc., are all juju. Those special rings, those items in the shrine are evidence of the existence of juju. My message has nothing to do with their existence but everything to do with the claims made by proponents of juju. ALL those claims of juju doing this or doing that are false!

You have your view and I have mine. You can NEVER convince me that juju claims are not fraudulent, except you and other juju proponents kick off Juju Arilines so I can stop buying expensive tickets online.

I can NEVER convince you that juju claims are fraudulent because you have seen juju work before your very eyes.

We have a stalemate! Let us respect that stalemate.

All we can do is bring evidence to support our different positions, and hopefully, influence readers (like MyJoe) to see the validity of our different sides.

Trying to discredit me in a bid to discredit my position is not a strategy I'll encourage. Don't fight me, fight my assertion:

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

POSAKOSA1:

rickyblack stop sending me emails.

@POSAKOSA1,

I sent you a warning by private messaging.

You don't have to insult me because I disagree with you. You can state your position and make your points, but no need to insult anyone.

[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

RichyBlacK:

Afam,

The existence of juju is not the issue. Of course juju exists - all those charms people carry in their bags, tie around their wastes, head etc., are all juju. Those special rings, those items in the shrine are evidence of the existence of juju. My message has nothing to do with their existence but everything to do with the claims made by proponents of juju. ALL those claims of juju doing this or doing that are false!

You have your view and I have mine. You can NEVER convince me that juju claims are not fraudulent, except you and other juju proponents kick off Juju Arilines so I can stop buying expensive tickets online.

I can NEVER convince you that juju claims are fraudulent because you have seen juju work before your very eyes.

We have a stalemate! Let us respect that stalemate.

All we can do is bring evidence to support are different positions, and hopefully, influence readers (like MyJoe) to see the validity of our different sides.

Trying to discredit me in a bid to discredit my position is not a strategy I'll encourage. Don't fight me, fight my assertion:

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

Trust me my friend there is no stalemate here. The issues are clear and straightforward enough for any discerning mind to understand.

Now you have brought up the issue of evidence do you have any evidence to support the splitting of the red sea by Moses just to allow the Israelites pass through?

You cannot ask for evidence of juju when you cannot provide any to back up any of the events that defy physical laws in the bible. That would amount to hypocrisy and double standards.

In any case, thanks for agreeing that juju exists. Trust me I would have stopped posting on this thread if you had made this statement a long time ago.

Enjoy the rest of the week.

No human being beheads people expecting it to bring him riches in the Bible. In fact sacrifice is discouraged by the Bible because it is so stupid.

The only supernatural occurrences in the Bible are purported by God, and unless God has come to Earth and is burning millions of dollars in order to prevent bullets from penetrating people, juju is not and has never been real.

Afam:

Trust me my friend there is no stalemate here. The issues are clear and straightforward enough for any discerning mind to understand.

Now you have brought up the issue of evidence do you have any evidence to support the splitting of the red sea by Moses just to allow the Israelites pass through?

You cannot ask for evidence of juju when you cannot provide any to back up any of the events that defy physical laws in the bible. That would amount to hypocrisy and double standards.

In any case, thanks for agreeing that juju exists. Trust me I would have stopped posting on this thread if you had made this statement a long time ago.

Enjoy the rest of the week.

On the existence of juju, I've never stated otherwise. My position has been clear and crisp: ALL juju claims are fraudulent

As regards the stories in the Bible, I do not take them literally. As far a I'm concerned, many of them a metaphorical.

I am a Christian who believes that ALL juju claims are fraudulent.

There is a stalemate. You believe juju claims are true, while I believe they are fraudulent claims. You're sticking to your view and I'm sticking to mine. And 2Pac said "Life goes on".

Kenezi:

No human being beheads people expecting it to bring him riches in the Bible. In fact sacrifice is discouraged by the Bible because it is so stupid.

The only supernatural occurrences in the Bible are purported by God, and unless God has come to Earth and is burning millions of dollars in order to prevent bullets from penetrating people, juju is not and has never been real.

Thank you!

I'm elated that more Nigerians are beginning to see the hoodwink in this colossal fraud called juju.

POSAKOSA1:

No need to leave. I can stay if I want. Its a PUBLIC FORUM.

Is this a follow-up thread?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-343318.0.html

RichyBlacK:

@ChinenyeN,

I meant on this thread.

Our discussion on the other thread was very insightful. You didn't strike me as someone who believed in the fraudulent claims of juju proponent but as someone who believed that a few of those claims are possible. I'll say that the level of that debate was higher that what I'm seeing hear.

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying.

kenezi said:

No human being beheads people expecting it to bring him riches in the Bible. In fact sacrifice is discouraged by the Bible because it is so stupid.

The only supernatural occurrences in the Bible are purported by God, and unless God has come to Earth and is burning millions of dollars in order to prevent bullets from penetrating people, juju is not and has never been real.]kenezi said:

No human being beheads people expecting it to bring him riches in the Bible. In fact sacrifice is discouraged by the Bible because it is so stupid.

The only supernatural occurrences in the Bible are purported by God, and unless God has come to Earth and is burning millions of dollars in order to prevent bullets from penetrating people, juju is not and has never been real.

Please spare us this colonial rubbish. Your oyibo bible ''God'' is Extremely evil.

I believe in the Creator.


The bible ''God'' is NOT the Creator, but a Jewish tribal deity known as ''Yahweh''.


Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible



(Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?)


The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice.  God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh.  Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are "pleasing to the Lord". 



Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God.  "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah.  Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you."  (Genesis 22:1-18)  Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him.  He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar.  Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat.  He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith.  However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.



Even though he didn't kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do.  If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone's prison-bitch.  It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God's love.  There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.



The first seven chapters of Leviticus have extensive rules regarding animal and food sacrifices.  These offerings are supposed to be burnt so that God can smell them.  If you read through these it seems clear to me that the priests were getting their followers to make a big feast for them every week.  The priests were very particular about what kind of food to bring and how to prepare it.


Even more peculiar is God's obsession with first-born sons.  In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."  Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price.  It is clear from the context that "consecrate" means a burning sacrifice.  These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping.  Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers.  What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom?  A kidnapper!  If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham.


However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions.  "Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord.  All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death."  I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession.  Not that it makes any difference.  A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.



Bible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice





Jephthah Burns His Daughter



    "At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites.  And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph.  I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." 



    "So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory.  He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites.  When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy.  When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish.  "My daughter!" he cried out.  "My heart is breaking!  What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back."  And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD.  You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites.  But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin."  "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months.  She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children.  When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin.  So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter."   (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)





God Commands Burning Humans



    [The Lord speaking]  "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel."  (Joshua 7:15 NLT)





Josiah and Human Sacrifice



    At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice.  Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar!  This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David.  On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you."  (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)



    He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them.  Finally, he returned to Jerusalem.  King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant."  There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah.  This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign.  Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah.  He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple.  Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses.  And there has never been a king like him since.  (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)



Human Sacrifice



    Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself.  As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself.  In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble;  (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)





Child Sacrifice



    And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared.  Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace.  For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs…  (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV)  The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.  This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.





Humans are Fuel for Fire



    As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end.  Return it to its sheath!  In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you.  I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction.  You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land.  You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken.  (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)





Burn Nonbelievers



    "Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)





So the next time some Christian tells you about the "love of God", show them this page and ask them "Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?"


Source: Evilbible.com

With upwards of 100,000,000 cell-phones with camera in Nigeria, one would hope that someone will upload a picture of some old woman turning into a cat in Ketu or fleeing robber turning into a goat in Oshodi.

So far, cellphones have shown us the following:
1. The murder of defenseless civilians by the JTF in the Niger Delta
2. The brutal beating of a Nigerian lady (Uzoma Okere) by Naval ratings in Lagos
3. The extrajudicial killing of the leader of the Boko Haram sect (Mohammed Yusuf)

One would think that with so many Nigerians gripped in fear by the fraudsters who claim that juju can solve ALL problems, albeit for a price, that events showing juju at work will be more common than rare events like the extrajudicial murder of the leader of an obscure sect.

When will one of the millions of juju acolytes in Nigeria armed with cellphones furnish us with video evidence of juju?

A hallmark of fraud is that there is hardly any evidence to back the claims made.

And the fraud continues:

[size=18pt]Nigeria: Benin Chief, Four Juju Priests Arrested for Human Trafficking[/size]
Simon Ebegbulem
7 September 2009

Benin — THE National Agency for the Prohibition of Traffic in Persons (NAPTIP), Benin zone, has arrested a Benin Chief, and four juju priests over alleged involvement in human trafficking.

The agency also alleged administering of oath to some girls who are trafficked abroad for prostitution.

According to the Benin zonal Head of NAPTIP, Barrister (Mrs) Olufunke Abiola, who spoke to Vanguard on the arrest of the Chief and the juju priests, the arrest of the Benin Chief of Benin Kingdom, is sequel to a petition by one Mrs Juliet Osifo who claimed that the chief sponsored her daughter, to Italy, enroute Libya but was trapped in Libya after she was arrested by the Libyan authorities.

She expressed worries over what she described as the incessant denials of the "fact that young girls of Benin decent are still in human trafficking and taken away for prostitution.

"Now as you would see, there is a very big case on hand that would prove to every body that no one is exempted, whether Benin, Urhobo, Itsekiri or Yoruba, every body is involved in this and it must stop.

"The young girls are ignorant. Like I said, sometimes, we find it difficult to prove a case against these traffickers because the girl will not want to expose her trafficker and apart from that, they are put under oath.

"So, this zone has been very very busy looking for all the juju priests that put some of the girls under oath. Some of them are even in our cell.

"We asked them to go and renounce that oath of the life of that girl so that the girl can feel free to be a human being because the oath ties them down spiritually."

The Chief, who spoke to Vanguard, admitted that his daughter in Italy requested he should bring the lady to Italy to assist her in her beer parlour, but that she was, however, stuck in Libya. "So what we are doing now is to see how we can bring her back to Nigeria so that she can stay with her parents,"he said.

Meanwhile, over 500 indigenes of Edo state who have been languishing in Libyan jails arrived Benin weekend, just as they appealed to both the state and federal governments to assist their colleagues who are still left in the Arab country to come back home to avert further deaths of the Nigerians.

Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200909080645.html

If those girls knew that those oaths they took in huts reeking of the obnoxious smell of rotting human corpse and decorated with human skeletons, elephant ivory, gorilla skulls and extra-large clay pots filled with blood, were of no effect whatsoever, they would not be sex-slaves/prostitutes in Italy.

The fear of the fraud called juju has kept many girls as prostitutes! This fraud is causing real harm in our society and the proponents MUST be arrested!

Why can't the chief and his band of fraudsters called "juju priests" chant some incantations and disappear, evading being arrested by the police? Simple answer: they cannot do that!

Hopefully, more members of the Nigerian Police Force will grow some balls, seek out these fraudster called "juju priests", arrest them, lock them up and prosecute them for all the crimes they commit, e.g.:
1. Engaging in human trafficking
2. Engaging in cold-blooded murder in the name of a cruel and barbaric act tagged "ritual killing".
3. Lying to the public that they possess supernatural powers.
4. Using trickery and fraud to deceive young illiterate girls from impoverished homes into prostitution

We'll see how any of these con men/women will escape from Kiri-kiri prison by chanting &%^&%$#$@##$! Nonsense!

Richyblack or whatever you call yourself, first of all understand this.  Juju in itself is not inherently bad. It is what is done with such POWERS that may be termed good or bad.

If I visit a traditional medicine man to request a potion or charm as protection against ill-luck or enemies, what is evil or bad about that? If I'm in a farming community ridden by drought, and we solicit the services of a traditional ''rainmaker'' or medicine man to appeal to the higher powers on our behalf for rain, how is that evil? You do the same when you attend your church, and you have NO RIGHT to condemn traditional religion as all evil. If you're ignorant, learn that fact TODAY.

You forget that you have christian priests who blessed mass murderers like George Bush and Hitler. Even today you have millions of American christians, many backed by priests, who believe it is a good thing to invade and bomb innocent children in Iraq based on lies, deception, and greed for oil, like Bush did. I know that wouldn't make you condemn christianity as evil, so quit your stupid double standards and ignorance.

One more thing,  Most of those in Nigeria who patronise traditional priests for evil purposes are christians. You need to appeal to your christian brethren to stop manipulating our traditional religions for their evil purposes.

^^^^ROSSIKE, no need to argue with RICKY. His brain is not working. Let him keep mumbling o himself.

ROSSIKE:

Richyblack or whatever you call yourself, first of all understand this.  Juju in itself is not inherently bad. It is what is done with such POWERS that may be termed good or bad.

If I visit a traditional medicine man to request a potion or charm as protection against ill-luck or enemies, what is evil or bad about that? If I'm in a farming community ridden by drought, and we solicit the services of a traditional ''rainmaker'' or medicine man to appeal to the higher powers on our behalf for rain, how is that evil? You do the same when you attend your church, and you have NO RIGHT to condemn traditional religion as all evil. If you're ignorant, learn that fact TODAY.

You forget that you have christian priests who blessed mass murderers like George Bush and Hitler. Even today you have millions of American christians, many backed by priests, who believe it is a good thing to invade and bomb innocent children in Iraq based on lies, deception, and greed for oil, like Bush did. I know that wouldn't make you condemn christianity as evil, so quit your stupid double standards and ignorance.

One more thing,  Most of those in Nigeria who patronise traditional priests for evil purposes are christians. You need to appeal to your christian brethren to stop manipulating our traditional religions for their evil purposes.

Juju almost ends up bad, even if it initially looks beneficial. If you visit a traditional medicine man for any favours, and by some stroke of luck or as a result of some vague revelations or predictions, you get satisfactory results, you will from then be held hostage by the medicine man. You will then be subject to to control of the medicine man, and you will henceforth be unable to make decisions without input from the medicine man. The same applies to the new age demon casting and all powerful pastors or prophets. Once you get into their hold, you cannot escape, they would use the hold on your mind to rule your life and collect your possessions. Some are so dependent on their pastors that they do not feel a sense security until the pastor lays hands on them or prays for them.

It is this mind control that is the most dangerous aspect of juju.

wirinet:

Juju almost ends up bad, even if it initially looks beneficial. If you visit a traditional medicine man for any favours, and by some stroke of luck or as a result of some vague revelations or predictions, you get satisfactory results, you will from then be held hostage by the medicine man. You will then be subject to to control of the medicine man, and you will henceforth be unable to make decisions without input from the medicine man. The same applies to the new age demon casting and all powerful pastors or prophets. Once you get into their hold, you cannot escape, they would use the hold on your mind to rule your life and collect your possessions. Some are so dependent on their pastors that they do not feel a sense security until the pastor lays hands on them or prays for them.

It is this mind control that is the most dangerous aspect of juju.

In addition to the fact that the so-called juju priest promising this and that has no way of keeping to such promises.

ROSSIKE:

Richyblack or whatever you call yourself, first of all understand this.  Juju in itself is not inherently bad. It is what is done with such POWERS that may be termed good or bad.

ROSSIKE or whatever you call yourself, understand this: ALL juju claims are fraudulent!

If I visit a traditional medicine man to request a potion or charm as protection against ill-luck or enemies, what is evil or bad about that? If I'm in a farming community ridden by drought, and we solicit the services of a traditional ''rainmaker'' or medicine man to appeal to the higher powers on our behalf for rain, how is that evil? You do the same when you attend your church, and you have NO RIGHT to condemn traditional religion as all evil. If you're ignorant, learn that fact TODAY.

For real? Why not visit the juju man to give you constant power supply? Would that be to hard for them juju priests? I bet more Nigerians are concerned about the erratic, sometimes non-existent, power supply in Nigeria than on the annual rainfall levels in Nigeria.

Please learn to read! I'm not condemning traditional religion, all I'm saying that juju claims like "you can turn a corpse to crisp Naira notes", "you can use juju to repel bullets from a gun" or "you can use juju to win World Cup" are fraudulent lies!

If you're ignorant, learn that today!

You forget that you have christian priests who blessed mass murderers like George Bush and Hitler. Even today you have millions of American christians, many backed by priests, who believe it is a good thing to invade and bomb innocent children in Iraq based on lies, deception, and greed for oil, like Bush did. I know that wouldn't make you condemn christianity as evil, so quit your stupid double standards and ignorance.

Of course fraud is not exclusively to juju claims, there are many Christian pastors that make fraudulent claims like: "give the Lord N1 million and He will bless you abundantly" or "Give the Lord N400,000 so we can deliver your child from witchcraft". These pastors are fraudsters.

Stop ranting like a lunatic and stop your stupid ignorance!

One more thing,  Most of those in Nigeria who patronise traditional priests for evil purposes are christians. You need to appeal to your christian brethren to stop manipulating our traditional religions for their evil purposes.

Irrelevant trash talk.

[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

wirinet:

Juju almost ends up bad, even if it initially looks beneficial.  If you visit a traditional medicine man for any favours, and by some stroke of luck or as a result of some vague revelations or predictions, you get satisfactory results, you will from then be held hostage by the medicine man. You will then be subject to to control of the medicine man, and you will henceforth be unable to make decisions without input from the medicine man. The same applies to the new age demon casting and all powerful pastors or prophets. Once you get into their hold, you cannot escape, they would use the hold on your mind to rule your life and collect your possessions. Some are so dependent on their pastors that they do not feel a sense security until the pastor lays hands on them or prays for them.

It is this mind control that is the most dangerous aspect of juju.

The above is my personal observation with people I know who dabble into these things.

MyJoe:

The above is my personal observation with people I know who dabble into these things.

My hypothesis is that the juju fraud was a precursor to the 419 fraud.

How is that so? There is evidence that the fraud of juju was schemed mainly as a get-rich-quick tool, not unlike 419 today. The literature on the slave-trade in West Africa is rife with juju. The Aro Long Juju, a massive fraud on the Aro people of Eastern Nigeria, was used by slave-trading Aro chiefs to get slaves for free and then sell them to White buyers from Europe and the Americas. All kinds of gimmicks were used declare a child slave-bound by the Long Juju whose authority could not be questioned by the hapless masses. The Aro chiefs used this fraud to deceive the people for decades, maybe centuries, until they were stopped by the British in bloody campaign in 1902.

Excerpt from Wikipedia on the fraud of the juju priests of the fraud called Long Juju:

The Confederacy of Arochukwu expanded with alliances with several related Igbo and eastern Cross River neighbors. Several large families of the Aro people began slave trading activities around Igbo and Ibibio lands. Among many of the ethnic groups of eastern Nigeria, anyone who enters a shrine and begs the deity of the shrine for help instantly becomes an osu (sometimes called a "juju slave", a slave of the shrine and a social outcast. The priests of the Ibini Ukpabi oracle (also known as the Long Juju Shrine), popular in midwest and southeast Nigeria, exploited this in order to force travelers and pilgrims into slavery. Agents of the oracle would pose as bandits and chase their victims into the shrine, hoping they would beg the intervention of the god and become osu, so the priests could then sell them off for profit.

As this continued, Aro businessmen from Arochukwu migrated across southern Nigeria and also to Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea and founded numerous settlements. There they spread the Aro trading monopoly.

POSAKOSA1:

Pls update your bibliography. 1902 ? 1905 ? wikipedia ? u need serious help

It's 1902 not 1905. Your knowledge of history is nothing to comment on, so just go to some other thread where they're celebrating the capture of a man who just turned into a goat.

It's scalawags like you that believe in rubbish that need serious help. Go consult your useless juju to help your pea brain understand simple historic facts, like dates.

UNESCO World Heritage site:

Belief in the fraudulent claims of juju created the Osu caste system in Eastern Nigeria. Specifically, the Aro Long Juju was not just a slave-trading gimmick by the Aro Confederacy, it also established a despicable caste system called Osu.

Even today, many ignorant Igbos still look down on fellow Igbos as members of an inferior caste, an unfortunate consequence in accepting the get-rich-quick antics of the juju priests of the Ibini Ukpabi oracle aka Aro Long Juju.

RichyBlacK:

It's 1902 not 1905. Your knowledge of history is nothing to comment on, so just go to some other thread where they're celebrating the capture of a man who just turned into a goat.

It's scalawags like you that believe in rubbish that need serious help. Go consult your useless juju to help your pea brain understand simple historic facts, like dates.

U're such a dimwit.

POSAKOSA1:

U're such a dimwit.  

Okay, I agree.

Will you now leave me to continue demolishing the fraud called juju in peace? I mean without stalking me for a fight? Please, biko, ejo, etc. Thank you!

why does every UGRY person think u're stalking them ? you're the one who opened a thread ? so everyone who responds to your thread is stalking you ?

na real wa!

RICHY

Even today, many ignorant Igbos still look down on fellow Igbos as members of an inferior caste, an unfortunate consequence in accepting the get-rich-quick antics of the juju priests of the Ibini Ukpabi oracle aka Aro Long Juju.

You cannot blame juju for the Osu system in Igboland, your argument is shallow, but are related but not mutually exclusive.

bilymuse:

RICHY

You cannot blame juju for the Osu system in Igboland, your argument is shallow, but are related but not mutually exclusive.

@bilymuse,

Do you want me to show you more evidence?

You've not done any research on this topic so stick to what you know.

bilymuse:

RICHY

You cannot blame juju for the Osu system in Igboland, your argument is shallow, but are related but not mutually exclusive.

Bilymuse,
Can you educate me on this? Thanks.

Richy

@bilymuse,

Do you want me to show you more evidence?

You've not done any research on this topic so stick to what you know.

To blame juju for the Osu system is like blaming Christianity for a Pastor who rape a girl in his care; the issue are related but not mutually exclusive. You need to consider the origin of the Osu system viv a viz the socio economic condition of the period. There are slaves in the bible and there are prophets of God with slaves. Can you conclude that christianity is responsible for slavery

[size=15pt]The Osu Caste System [/size]
Leo Igwe

The Osu caste system is an obnoxious practice among the Igbos -in Nigeria-which has refused to go away despite the impact of Christianity, modern education and civilization, and the human rights culture. In this piece, I will argue that the Osu discrimination is an outdated tradition with no basis for its continued practice and observance in the contemporary Igbo society.

Traditionally, there are two classes of people in Igboland – the Nwadiala and the Osu. The Nwadiala literally meaning ‘sons of the soil’ are the freeborn. They are the masters. While the Osu are the slaves, the strangers, the outcasts and the untouchables. Chinua Achebe in his well-known book, No Longer At Ease asks: What is this thing called Osu? He answers: “Our fathers in their darkness and ignorance called an innocent man Osu, a thing given to the idols, and thereafter he became an outcast, and his children, and his children’s children forever” The Osu are treated as inferior human beings in a state of permanent and irreversible disability. They are subjected to various forms of abuse and discrimination. The Osu are made to live separately from the freeborn. In most cases they reside very close to shrines and marketplaces. The Osu are not allowed to dance, drink, hold hands, associate or have sexual relations with Nwadiala. They are not allowed to break kola nuts at meetings. No Osu can pour libation or pray to God on behalf of a freeborn at any community gathering. It is believed that such prayers will bring calamity and misfortune.

A human rights group outlined the atrocities meted out against the Osu in Igboland. They include: ‘parents administering poison to their children, disinheritance, ostracism, organized attack, heaping harvest offering separately in churches, denial membership in social clubs, violent disruption of marriage ceremonies, denial of chieftaincy titles, deprivation of property and expulsion of wives etc.”

The Osu caste discrimination is very pronounced in the area of marriage. An Osu cannot marry a freeborn. The belief is that any freeborn that marries an Osu defiles the family. So freeborn families are always up in arms against any of their members who wants to marry an Osu. They go to any length to scuttle the plan. Because of the Osu factor, marriages in Igboland are preceded by investigations-elders on both sides travel to native villages to find out the social status of the other party. And if it is found that one of them is an Osu, the plan would be automatically abandoned. Many marriage plans have been aborted, and in fact some married couples have been forced to divorce because of the Osu factor. Chinua Achebe also noted this in his book. When Okonkwo learns that his son wants to marry Clara, an Osu. Okonkwo says: “ Osu is like a leprosy in the minds of my people. I beg of you my son not to bring the mark of shame and leprosy into your family. If you do, your children and your children’s children will curse you and your memory… You will bring sorrow on your head and on the heads of your children.”

But there have been several efforts and initiatives to eradicate this harmful tradition. In 1956, the government of the then Eastern Nigeria passed a law abolishing the Osu caste system. The law freed and discharged anybody called Osu including the children born to such a person. It declared the practice unlawful – and a crime punishable by law. But unfortunately, 50 years after the enactment of this legislation, nobody has been prosecuted or convicted for breaking the law. At best what the legislation has achieved is to drive the practice underground. Also many religious leaders and traditional rulers have spoken out against the practice. Recently Eze Enyeribe Onuoha, the traditional ruler of Umuchieze autonomous community in Imo State urged his community members to abandon the practice. He said: “discrimination against Osus is irrational, illegal, unjust and archaic and opposed to human rights. It is one Umuchieze(Igbo) tradition that should immediately be abolished.”

But statements and declarations like this are not uncommon. But they have always fallen on deaf ears among the Igbo people most of whom think that cultural norms are sacrosanct and should not be tampered with. So the belief in and practice of Osu caste system continue to wax strong in Igboland. In 1997, a person alleged to be an Osu was made a chief in a community in Imo State. But six months later, the community was engulfed in a crisis. And when the case was brought to the court, the presiding judge noted that though the abolition of Osu caste system was in the statute, it was an unenforceable law. The chief was dethroned so that peace would reign in the community.

And not too long ago I met a lady in a friend’s house in Lagos. I was told that she was engaged to a young man from Imo State. And months later I learnt that the marriage plan had been abandoned because the lady was said to be an Osu. There have been several instances like that where young men and women of Igbo extraction have suffered heartbreaks and emotional traumas as a result of this cultural disease. And now the question is, why is it that this cultural practice has refused to go away even among educated Igbos. The reason is not far fetched. The practice of Osu caste system is hinged on religion, supernaturalism and theism. And Igbos are deeply religious and theistic people. Osu are regarded as unclean or untouchable because they are (alleged to be) dedicated to the gods. So it is the dedication to the gods that makes the Osu status a condition of permanent and irreversible disability and stigma.

So this cruel custom will not be eradicated until Igbos begin to realize that gods are imaginary beings, not objective entities. Igbos need to understand that deities and spirits are mental constructs used to control and organize the society at the infancy of the human race. And today that humanity has come of age. Because if one does not believe that the gods and spirits are real, then the idea of treating someone as unclean or untouchable because the person is dedicated to any deity does not make sense at all. Even for the god-believing Igbos, the practice is out rightly baseless. Because most Igbos are Christians and do not profess any belief in the traditional gods to which the Osu were (alleged to be) dedicated. So, it is both sensible and appropriate that all Igbos - believers and non-believers alike renounce and abandon this abhorrent, inhuman and despicable practice. Politically, state authorities must get Igbo communities and associations to remove provisions in their constitution that bar Osu from contesting elections or receiving traditional titles. Legally, the courts must begin to enforce the law abolishing the Osu caste system. And the Nigerian state must rise up to its duty of protecting and defending the humanity, dignity and equal rights of all citizens irrespective of their sex, ethnic origin, religion, belief or birth status.

Most importantly Igbos must begin to envision a new society where people can live and interact, marry and be married, elect and be elected, without division, distinction, discrimination on the basis of Osu or Nwadiala. Hence I want to use this opportunity to appeal to my people-ndi Igbo: Please let’s strive to remove this mark of leprosy and shame from the face of our culture and society.

_____

About the author: Leo Igwe is director of the Centre for Inquiry in Nigeria. He can be reached at nskepticleo@yahoo.com.