you're not seeking the truth. u're looking for a NL consensus approval on your intelligence. but no one here is going to give that to you. esp. with the  Lips sealed Lips sealed comments u're stating.

I agree i am silly in thinking you guys would argue with the same style that i do- no i am not looking for the approval of a group of insignificant people for my intelligence. I just get angry i cannot find any african who could engage me at the same level i want and so it makes me angry.

Especially when everyone is using suppositions as argument and not a drop of logic. I need logic to believe- wisdom comes from within not from the divine or subjective experience.

Until i understand why juju was made conveniently elusive, and what its true limits and nature are, then i remain an unrepentant skeptic

SEFAGO:

I agree i am silly in thinking you guys would argue with the same style that i do- no i am not looking for the approval of a group of insignificant people for my intelligence. I just get angry i cannot find any african who could engage me at the same level i want and so it makes me angry.

Especially when everyone is using suppositions as argument and not a drop of logic. I need logic to believe- wisdom comes from within not from the divine or subjective experience.

When i understand why juju was made conveniently elusive, and what its true limits and nature are, then i remain an unrepentant skeptic

You have been repeating the  SAME NONSENSE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU ARE BORING ME.   with your insignificant and naive self, claiming to be intelligent.


RE-READ the various comments on this thread and then come back to post.


When it comes to particular spiritual matters, it defies logic and cannot be explained. Even not all scientific truths can be properly and logically explained.

One thing you FAIL to understand is that the so called "truth" is relative.

When it comes to particular spiritual matters, it defies logic and cannot be explained. Even not all scientific truths can be properly and logically explained

.

Interesting- who told you that? Who said all spiritual truth cannot be explained by science? who is your authority? How do you know it defies logic? why should it defy logic?

you keep making suppositional statements, and you say i keep repeating the same thiing- it is because like a donkey you keep making the same mistakes

Even not all scientific truths can be properly and logically explained.

big supposition- i knw u dont knw what u are tlking about (maybe some scientific truth cannot be properly explained  but logically? - lol if they are illogical then they are usually rejected.

Well except to u of cause, naija ppl dey break super rules despite winning no nobel laureate in science 

By the way I am talking of the hard sciences: if you can find me one illogical scientific truth- i will shut my mouth up and not post on this thread again- just one

SEFAGO:

.

Interesting- who told you that? Who said all spiritual truth cannot be explained by science? who is your authority? How do you know it defies logic? why should it defy logic?

you keep making suppositional statements, and you say i keep repeating the same thiing- it is because like a donkey you keep making the same mistakes

Now you are revealing your stupidity. and who told you that you are SEFAGO ? Who is your authority ? How do you know that your name is SEFAGO ? Why should it be SEFAGO ? <out of all the available names> what choices affected or impacted your decision ?


Stoooooopid!  

SEFAGO:

big supposition- i knw u dont knw what u are tlking about (maybe some scientific truth cannot be properly explained but logically? - lol if they are illogical then they are usually rejected.

Well except to u of cause, naija ppl dey break super rules despite winning no nobel laureate in science

Simple LOGIC: its IF/THEN and not IF/NOT

There are many illogical scientific "truths" that have been published.


No need arguing with a slowpoke is waste of my ABSOLUTE TIME I shall NEVER get back.    

Now you are revealing your stupidity. and who told you that you are SEFAGO ? Who is your authority ? How do you know that your name is SEFAGO ? Why should it be SEFAGO ? <out of all the available names> what choices affected or impacted your decision ?

your extrapolation is wrong. My name sefago is a statement. People know that the spiritual realm cannot be explained logically" is a bold argument asserted as if it was a universal truth, like "the earth is round"

keep calling me stupid

No need arguing with a slowpoke is waste of my ABSOLUTE TIME I shall NEVER get back

agreed- i am a slowpoke- now find me one of the many scientific[i] truths[/i]. oops u are going to call me names again to hide your ignorant yansh.

A physicist would be laughing his butt of right now. Incase you don't know physics (the most difficult field to describe phenomena) and logic must always go hand in hand, down to einstein's theory of relativity.

Thank god we have logic to destroy the arguments of myth carriers

SEFAGO:

your extrapolation is wrong. My name sefago is a statement. People know that the spiritual realm cannot be explained logically" is a bold argument asserted as if it was a universal truth, like "the earth is round"

keep calling me stupid

Yes you are. Because I have repeated time and time over that the Truth is relative. I have also repeated that[b] there is no such thing as the "absolute" truth. [/b]

If thats hard for you to comprehend, then im sorry but I can't help you

And the juju fraud continues . . .

[size=16pt]Two persons die in a pit while attempting to rescue a dog[/size]
October 20, 2009

Akrodie (B/A) Oct. 20, GNA - Two persons are suspected to have died in a pit in an attempt to rescue a dog that had fallen into it at Akrodie in Asunafo North Municipality.

Residents told the Ghana News Agency that on October 9 the dog, belonging to one Kofi Musah, 43, fell into the pit so he entered it in an attempt to rescue the dog but he did not come up again.

They said a man told Musah's family to provide him with GH¢250 "to use his powerful juju medicine" to rescue Musah from the pit. The family gave an advance of GH¢200 and the man entered the pit but he failed to return. They told the GNA that the incident was the third to occur in the pit.

The Akonodi fetish priest at Akrodie said the incident was spiritual and an extra person had to be sacrificed before the two bodies could be brought out of the pit. "I will still consult my oracles in respect of the removal of the bodies from the pit", the fetish priest said.

A report has been made to the police at Goaso whilst personnel of the fire service are making efforts to retrieve the bodies.


Source: http://www.ghananewsagency.org/s_humaninterest/r_8822/

SEFAGO:

agreed- i am a slowpoke- now find me one of the many scientific[i] truths[/i]. oops u are going to call me names again to hide your ignorant yansh.

A physicist would be laughing his butt of right now. Incase you don't know physics (the most difficult field to describe phenomena) and logic must always go hand in hand, down to einstein's theory of relativity.

I know the type of person you are. You think that science is ABSOLUTE. BUT YOU'RE WRONG.


There have been scientists that have published illogical "truth" about the Black race ?

@ Richy, what is FRAUD to you is not FRAUD to someone else. How hard is that to comprehend, the sooner you understand this, the better.

POSAKOSA1:

@ Richy, what is FRAUD to you is not FRAUD to someone else. How hard is that to comprehend, the sooner you understand this, the better.

Now, I can't make my case to someone who believes juju can stop the earth's rotation, can I?

If thats hard for you to comprehend, then im sorry but I can't help you

I think what you are saying is hard to comprehend- considering the fact that you are making claims that geniuses dare not- like claims of absolute and relative truth especially in regards to science. As if you know what those mean, if you did u wuld have shut up a long time ago.

At least when Descartes produced his argument on a supernatural world/existence of God he did so with sound arguments- you are just displaying what i expected.

There have been scientists that have published illogical "truth" about the Black race ?

haha, do u blame them when all they have is you to go by   . Now notice in my previous posts I said the hard sciences (biology/chemistry/physics/geology)

Race and intelligence are psychological/sociological studies- no one considers them scientific truths well except you maybe. Most people consider it a pseudoscience. wonders shall never end.

I want to deal with only the hard sciences since economics is also a science and one built on models  but iits models are not taken as true OR EXACT.

Man not one thing in this world is illogical- well except of course African juju

SEFAGO:

haha, do u blame them when all they have is you to go by   . Now notice in my previous posts I said the hard sciences (biology/chemistry/physics/geology)

OK THERE HAVE BEEN BIOLOGISTS THAT HAVE PUBLISHED "RUBBISH" ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE. Is that better ? I don't need to give you names, am I correct ?

RichyBlacK:

Now, I can't make my case to someone who believes juju can stop the earth's rotation, can I?

There is no point. Your truth and realities are not my truth and realities.    

@ SEFAGO and if you consider the BIOLOGISTS THAT I SPEAK OF AS SOCIOLOGISTS/PSYCHOLOGISTS, then oooooooBOY!

Agreed -But  these are not scientific truth or neither are they illogical- they meet none of the requirements (they on the other hand have a shitload of data to prove it)- you don't have one proof. I have already assessed what i need to of the situation: you don't even know what a scientific truth is and you use it explicitly- how can you even argue logically for juju when you can't get simple terms down

proudly nigerian but still unable to figure out what i am proud of.

i excuse myself permanently this time

By the way absolute truth is a term meaning total, unsubjective truth, no one in this world can claim to know an absolute truth except if they are God. Has nothing to do with this argument

SEFAGO:

Agreed -But  these are not scientific truth or neither are they illogical- they meet none of the requirements (they on the other hand have a shitload of data to prove it)- you don't have one proof. I have already assessed what i need to of the situation: you don't even know what a scientific truth is and you use it explicitly- how can you even argue logically for juju when you can't get simple terms down

proudly nigerian but still unable to figure out what i am proud of.

i excuse myself permanently this time

<HEHEHE> I hail you in your quest for knowledge and wisdom.

POSAKOSA1:


There is no point. Your truth and realities are not my truth and realities.    

That's acceptable.

My message to all is simple:

Do not be afraid of the fraud called juju. The proponents are con men/women and the whole fraud has been shown time and time again to be based on fear, hallucinations, lies, gimmicks, trickery and forgery.

To those who believe in the nonsense called juju, I ask a simple question: When are you opening [size=14pt]Juju Airlines[/size]? I'm tired of paying for plane tickets, when I can just sit on a mud seat in Agege and instantaneously appear in bar in down-town ATL!

Juju has no power, the real power is the fear put into those juju worshippers. That's what really kills them eventually.

juju is real. This is a man that transformed into a dog

This rich guy has been displaying a high level of stupidity and ignorance. Trying to explain unseen things with our earthly brain is very limited. As so much i beleive in juju, many of its proponents have attached to it so many impossible acts to it and so also the miracles in the bible, such as jesus walked on water, turned water to wine, fed five thousands wit five loaves of bread and two fishes, and the sun and moon standing still. All these are impossible acts, so as we have them included in the bible so we do have them too in juju. But all these dont still diminish the fact that miracles exist in the bible and juju is very real. European witches do cast spells on people, what can you say about that too?

Gender: Male
Age: 20
Location: in beyonce's booty
Local Time: October 24, 2009, 11:02 PM

You mean this guy is 20? Then permit me to say I am highly impressed with the profundity of his intellect and logic having read this thread from the beginning.

To the issue of the existence or otherwise of juju. One can surmise that some people are of a logical bent while some are of the supernatural. I believe it is a matter of bent more than all else because in matters such as this empirical observations are hardly empirical since your bent predetermines the weight or interpretation you give or are prepared to give to what you see or hear. May I humbly disagree with those who see the position of RichyBlack as an issue here since I have encountered some religious folk who are profoundly logical, even rational, while holding on to the core of their religious beliefs. The mistake good followers of their religions make is in thinking that faith is ever enough! But then that is the true nature of religion - you accept it by faith and then everything follows. You ask no questions, following dogmatically. Two examples I can think of right now of religio-rationalists are Rowan Williams (Archbishop of Canterbury) and Desmond Tutu (Archbishop Emeritus of Cape Town). To the list must I add RichyBlack. Problem is such people usually end up not accepting many of the offerings of their religious system, at least not literally. (Try discussing reincarnation with Catholic priests you know and you will be surprised how many of them accept it) Now that makes you a bad follower of your religion, as it is. But since these religio-rationalists can handle it, I personally won't go and on about it. I guess their position is that they can live with their religious since they accept the core issues such as redemption, divinity, etc, but that since the system is administered by humans and is, therefore, not perfect, the individual owes it to himself to let his own rational process play a role.
[b]Does juju exist? Well, I had my early childhood in Edo State where belief in it is rife as I still travel down there occasionally. I am now in my fourth decade on earth, so you can imagine how much of these stories I have ingested. Let me state, however, that they have all remained that: STORIES! I am yet to personally witness anything supernatural.[/b]
But is that sufficient for me to conclude that there are no powers deposited somewhere that some people, through some strange alchemy, have discovered the secrets of tapping into? NO! Because (1) There are other things in existence which I have never seen. (2) The fact that something sounds strange does not mean it cannot exist. (3) There are people I do not associate with frivolities who claim to have personally witnessed some of these things.
The other argument used by those who assert that these things don't exist is that they go against the laws of nature/physics. Well, this one is easy to counter: Who told you nature is the ultimate reality? There could be powers, systems, laws and orders, higher than nature, powers who command and nature obeys.
Does juju exist? I don't know, maybe one day, I will. But honestly, I am not interested. There was a column of ants out there this morning. If you pass that way without looking down, you would hear nothing because they make no sound. But pay them some attention, get a sound intensifier and you will be surprised how much noise they make, those ants! One of the reasons I am not into religion is because it (at least, the African variant) places you in one whirlpool of unfounded, formless fears - demons of barrenness, witches of joblessness and no husband, etc. I would rather have my peace and die in it than live with formless fears. Most witch stories are probably made up to scare people. If witches exist they probably only hurt people who are diabolically inclined since no rational person ever got hurt. Or why would Oba Ovonranmwen's jujus procured with a copious amount of fresh human heads evince less potency than those made by the OPC rookies who regularly hold maneuvres near Afam's football pitch?

I also believe that no witch can harm me. I believe people who get afflicted or attacked one way or the other involve themselves in one form of diabolical powers or the other and so it becomes a war in the spiritual realm where the higher power wins.

But as someone that does not subscribe to diabolical powers my belief is that whatever that is done at that level will not have effect on me since I don't operate on the same level.

It is like conditional logic based on different programming languages.

A code written in PHP will simply be useless if it is expected for a JAVA interpreter to execute the code because they don't have the same syntax and construct.

Again, no one is against RichyBlack holding on to his positions, it is just that such positions are contradictory and cannot stand any objective scrutiny.

I am a christian and see juju as negative power that is at 180 degrees away from my christian belief as regards good and bad.

However, because I have seen it work I will be foolish to wish it away based on convenience. I don't have to like or practice something for me to accept it exists or works. In other words, sentiments have no place on issues like these.

Everything about my work is science based and because I have seen theories updated, changed or even discarded based on recent research I know that the worst thing that can happen to anyone is to become intellectually stubborn all in the name of claiming to be logical.

The regular incandescent bulb wastes up to 90% of energy going into it just to give light whereas the energy wasted is turned into heat. They are based on AC since DC was seen as a current that cannot challenge AC in the long run.

Today, LEDs are taking over and they are based on DC where less than 20% of the energy going into them are wasted to produce light which makes them far more efficient than regular incandescent bulbs.

From consumer electronics to cars and street lights what used to be seen as a difficult or expensive option as regards electricity is now changing the world and the way we use electricity. However, those who condemned DC in the past were physicists and experts in the field who based on the knowledge they had then came up with what they thought was the best.

I believe in respecting other peoples' positions on issues whether I agree with them or not but in doing so we must practice what we preach so when we ask for logic we must be willing to use logic and not discard it when logic proves us wrong. On issues like these there must be no middle ground, we must agree and use a standard to discuss otherwise we would continue to introduce diversions just to prolong and confuse an otherwise simple matter.

I'm pretty sure people do not know all there is to know about the universe. . .

ChinenyeN:

I'm pretty sure people do not know all there is to know about the universe. . .

Correct! It appears man is simply not granted that knowledge. That is why no single religion's theology is sufficient to lay bare everything. That is why some of us have journeyed from religious absolutism to cognitive dissonance, and finally to rationality.

MyJoe:

Correct! It appears man is simply not granted that knowledge. That is why no single religion's theology is sufficient to lay bare everything. That is why some of us have journeyed from religious absolutism to cognitive dissonance, and finally to rationality.

Okay, but juju proponents do not place any limits on what is doable or knowable by their priests or executioners.

I agree that man's knowledge is limited, and science/technology and mathematics acknowledge such limits. This acknowledgment of the limits of any aspect of human endeavor is an important characteristic of detecting fraudulent practices.

On the set of terrestrial and celestial events possible in our universe, the juju proponents effectively place NO LIMITS on the powers of their juju! This is clearly a sign of fraud!


[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

MyJoe:

May I humbly disagree with those who see the position of RichyBlack as an issue here since I have encountered some religious folk who are profoundly logical, even rational, while holding on to the core of their religious beliefs. The mistake good followers of their religions make is in thinking that faith is ever enough! But then that is the true nature of religion - you accept it by faith and then everything follows. You ask no questions, following dogmatically. Two examples I can think of right now of religio-rationalists are Rowan Williams (Archbishop of Canterbury) and Desmond Tutu (Archbishop Emeritus of Cape Town). To the list must I add RichyBlack.

MyJoe,

Thanks for trying to explain my position to those who cannot comprehend the fact that one can be a Christian and still view ALL juju claims as fraudulent.

The soldiers of Her Majesty Queen Victoria who made His Majesty Oba Ovonramwen's juju men understand  the meaning of classical physics were Christians! They feared no juju but respected the teachings of Sir Isaac Newton.

[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

bawomolo:

juju is real. This is a man that transformed into a dog

That any person can believe that a human can instantaneously turn into this dog is just laughable beyond belief!

ChinenyeN:

I'm pretty sure people do not know all there is to know about the universe. . .

It's one thing to admit you don't know everything, it's another thing to assume the unknown is some supernatural quantity that can be harnessed by african technology (juju).

MyJoe:

Correct! It appears man is simply not granted that knowledge. That is why no single religion's theology is sufficient to lay bare everything. That is why some of us have journeyed from religious absolutism to cognitive dissonance, and finally to rationality.

oh shit, tell it like it is.

RichyBlacK:

That any person can believe that a human can instantaneously turn into this dog is just laughable beyond belief!

look at the eyes of that dog, just look at it. na winch!!