Hmmm!!

See what no Footie for a week has turned the Arsenal thread into

Guess[i] "Age ain't nothing but a number"[/i]

Saw this vid from "Blooger" thought to share it!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8oGGm13qWo

GOONER 89

P.S. Could one of you brilliant guys give me a list of the Under 17 Naija team with their ages (Real or otherwise )

debosky:

Let's not fudge statistics - you can't really count players who've barely stepped on the pitch for cameo appearances like Wilshire and Eastmond - they've played peripheral roles in our season.
The bulk of this side has been much older, especially in defence, and even attack as well.

How can you say this when the Likes of Gibbs and Traore have between them played more than Clichy who is supposed to be the first teamer for the left back? or when someone like Ramsey at 18 had 10 starts in MF when even the bulk of the MF itself is below 23?

debosky:

It is a pointless statistic in a sense because we know not all of the so called youth players will make it, we carry them for a couple of years then get rid of them - like we did for Hoyte, Owusu-Abieye and Lupoli. 'Youth' indeed.

That is the price to gain for employing a youth strategy, nothing ventured nothing gained. For every Hoyte, there is a Gibbs and for every Lupoli, there is a Bendtner. The alternative, go and borrow money like Manure or beg an Abrahamovic to come buy you. SIMPLES.

debosky:

The other clubs are NOT going to lie idle and allow Arsenal to take over. . . it won't happen. We've been waiting for years for this 'change' to happen, but it hasn't, while we continue to lose players in the interim and rebuild again and again. If we don't win something to at least hold on to some of these players, we'll ALWAYS be one or two players short.

I agree with you that the other clubs won't lie idle while we build, we haven't fallen short of anyone apart from those 2 clubs and their spending has been shown to be unsustainable. We are looking very good going forwards, I expect Manure to still be thereabouts (as their youth policy is only a bit behind ours and Villa) but Chelsea will be in serious trouble in a few years time without some serious injection of cash, I expected their performances to drop this season but so far its looked like they want to go out with a last hurrah, lets see if they can handle the load of the UCL restart along with prosecuting an FA cup campaign while still keeping their premiership push alive with those rapidly tiring legs.

duduspace,
Not meaning to put words in your mouth, but I'm just trying to get my point across.
We are not comparing respective club youth policies.And I think that's where you are getting the argument wrong.Nobody says it's not right to put youth into consideration when building a squad,but truth is even those who came through the ranks at Arsenal,only Fab4 and to some extent Diaby,can claim to be established enough for AW to bank on.
As for the U-21s you listed,we ll and good,but you and I know they won't be called on by AW when the going gets tough.Of course,the learning experience is vital.
Besides,AW has been in rebuilding mode since God-knows-when.Arsene W tends to be more a business man than a coach.Not bashing any of his competencies,but I think it's time he focussed on transforming some of those talents into world-beaters rather than saving money for the club,as it's not his primary role.
We all know what happened at United:how Giggs,Neville,Scholes,Butt and Beckham became the bedrock for years for United.We don't see that happening to Arsenal.That's a youth poilcy that reaps rewards.Any other thing/stat before that is just for record purposes

@Slimshay

I just felt that a whole lot of facts get lost amidst this noise about absence of trophies, it takes someone willing to consider the prevailing circumstances to dig out the truth. Some of the points may be right about Arsene not buying this player or that player true enough but all things considered, not many managers I know would have kept standards at a reasonably high level (reached a UCL final and missed winning the league by 4 points) within such constraints as Arsene had to work with or even had the courage to undertake such a policy within the outspend your opponent culture which people have now realised doesn't work in the long term even if it does win you some trophies like Chelsea.

Eastbay:

duduspace,
Not meaning to put words in your mouth, but I'm just trying to get my point across.
We are not comparing respective club youth policies.And I think that's where you are getting the argument wrong.Nobody says it's not right to put youth into consideration when building a squad,but truth is even those who came through the ranks at Arsenal,only Fab4 and to some extent Diaby,can claim to be established enough for AW to bank on.
As for the U-21s you listed,we ll and good,but you and I know they won't be called on by AW when the going gets tough.Of course,the learning experience is vital.
Besides,AW has been in rebuilding mode since God-knows-when.Arsene W tends to be more a business man than a coach.Not bashing any of his competencies,but I think it's time he focussed on transforming some of those talents into world-beaters rather than saving money for the club,as it's not his primary role.
We all know what happened at United:how Giggs,Neville,Scholes,Butt and Beckham became the bedrock for years for United.We don't see that happening to Arsenal.That's a youth poilcy that reaps rewards.Any other thing/stat before that is just for record purposes

That is the tag the media have labelled him with but a lot of them are now beginning to see reason with his initiative primary among them is Gary Lineker (just check out his recent post that had Sauron hot and bothered recently). One thing I would agree with Sauron is that Fergie was the first to start a youth policy (but the point is, his youth policy has presently taking a back seat so that he could compete with Chelsea), it was much easier to adhere to a youth policy before Abrahamovic came, The popular Fergie's fledgelings that won the 95/96 premier league had an avg age of 24, but I believe they didn't even have to battle a team put together with an investment close to 300m over a 3 year period in buying players alone.

What Arsene and the board have done is:
1. Show that a youth policy can still be actualised within the present dispensation.
2. Run the club as a going concern with a sustainable model.
3. Show that the board and manager can work hand in hand to achieve this goal, and not the manager working at variance with the board and calling for big name signings (and probably taking bung and dodging tax like our dear neighbor's manager) even if it would bankrupt the club.

I agree totally that Arsenal has to start winning trophies as soon as possible, but with what I see on ground, we have put ourselves in a very good position to begin doing exactly that.

@Eastbay, i think you will have to gaze into the future to realize none of this guys will form the core at Arsenal.

@Dudu to be fair to the scummies the bulk of their debt came from the Glazers borrowing money to buy the club. Spending on personnel has earned them trophies. But well so also came additional debts.

And dont over simplify it into spending or not spending. What i think Debo is trying to say is the same thing evrybody else i guess has been saying. Mix youth signings with experienced signings. Even Wenger  said he thinks he disbanded the Invincibles too early. Thats why i more than welcome the re-signing of Sol and having Sylvester or Gallas around they have won things.

My most present fear now is getting back into an advantageous position in the run-in, what would these guys then do? The last time we were there, we blew it. Thats what experience gives you. Steady heads and steady legs.

Anyways thats in fans land, the need to win shiny metals and hence braging rights. We still need money to be there tommorrow or. . . . .hi Portsmouth.

I agree there is a middle ground to be reached, with Debosky perhaps but not with Sauron or Dayo. We can only reexamine after the fact what signings could and should have been made. We do have 8 players above 25 who we largely got for what some would term "peanuts" even though we do pay them well like Sauron rightly pointed out.
The fact still remains Chelsea and Manure have well outspent us and possibly deserved their short term success. Going forwards its however a different matter entirely and that is what the team has to show in the coming weeks. There must be some heavy metal at the emirates this season.

loyika:

P.S. Could one of you brilliant guys give me a list of the Under 17 Naija team with their ages (Real or otherwise )

That one go hard small, age is nothing at all in Nigeria, it is not even a number.

^^^^Dudu you no well.

Gooner whaiido?!! Long time no see.

And for the play off, so all this fight wey dem dey do never reach abi? Imagine requiring to play extra matches when the world cup is just around the corner. National team managers will go mental. When De Bosque is already begging Rafa to go easy on Torress and Capello is already begging Fergie to rest Shrek his goal machine in this crunch period. Play-offs wont happen, forget it.

@ Dudu

Abramovic's arrival is the weak excuse we keep hearing. Did Abramovich stop Liverpool from winning the CL in 2005? Did it stop them from making another final appearance a few years after that? How much have Liverpool spent compared to us?

Arsenal has been underperforming - that is the reality. Holding on to 07/08 and 05/06 is well and good, but what happened in 06/07? CC final right? moving to a new stadium right? All well and good.

The nature of the abject failures in 08/09 are enough to make anyone feel this system is not working - you still end up losing one or two vital cogs in the summer and that gap is never filled. In after 07/08 we lost Flamini, Hleb and Gilberto. After 08/09 we lost Ade and Kolo, and only replaced Kolo. If we end up trophy-less this season again (as it appears will happen) we're on course to lose another 'big' player - Gallas, Arshavin or Cesc or a combination of the three.

If/when that happens, we'll be back to our 'nearly' position once again.

PS - Utd have always spent big, so claiming they started spending to 'match' Chelski is disingenuous - they bought Stam, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Veron, RVN among other big name expenditures during the period when we were going head to head for titles - as a result, it was no surprise for them to pay so much for Rooney, Hargo and Rio after that period.

Utd will continue to be able to buy players as their bond deal frees up their cash to continue to buy players. If we fail to buy the marquee players to give us the edge, or at least show sufficient desire to win or pick up a 'minor' trophy like the FA cup (NOT CC) we will end up going through the same cycle yet again. Their youth players are often better than ours, especially in defence, and they have as good as, if not a better pull for young British talent. They are able to keep squad members happy, even when not playing frequently - we seem to lack that ability.

The best teams keep their best players, and only sell when they are confident they have sufficient replacements - not Arsenal! We sell too early and end up spending the next 18 months building up someone to take up the same role, after which we repeat the same flaw in yet another part of the team.

We keep being in the 'nearly there' mode. . . .till we find a solution to that, I forsee losing someone integral yet again and being back to square one.

debosky:

@ Dudu
Abramovic's arrival is the weak excuse we keep hearing. Did Abramovich stop Liverpool from winning the CL in 2005? Did it stop them from making another final appearance a few years after that?  How much have Liverpool spent compared to us? 

Liverpool won the CL in 2005 when we also won the FA cup last, they then won the FA cup in the season after that when we also unfortunately lost to Barcelona in the final but since that time, what has either team won? and would you at present in all honesty say that Liverpool is better off than we are? I can tell you that most liverpool fans are looking at our youngsters with envy, like I said it all depends how each club chooses to use its resources afterall I remember most fans blaming Arsene for not shelling out 25m for Torres (a decision that has not brought liverpool any silverware and blows the whole buy big to win idea to smithereens)

debosky:

Arsenal has been underperforming - that is the reality. Holding on to 07/08 and 05/06 is well and good, but what happened in 06/07?  CC final right? moving to a new stadium right? All well and good.

The nature of the abject failures in 08/09 are enough to make anyone feel this system is not working - you still end up losing one or two vital cogs in the summer and that gap is never filled. In after 07/08 we lost Flamini, Hleb and Gilberto. After 08/09 we lost Ade and Kolo, and only replaced Kolo. If we end up trophy-less this season again (as it appears will happen) we're on course to lose another 'big' player - Gallas, Arshavin or Cesc or a combination of the three.

I agree with you that we took some steps backwards after the 07/08 season, but overall between 2005 and now we have created a very good foundation for the club. and I don't believe we will lose another big player or that if we do lose any of our big players that they wouldn't be replaced easily. The most important thing we've done is to achieve real strength in depth without having to spend big to achieve this and things are now looking rosy on the financial front while most other clubs are complaining. We can't lose Song, Diaby and Cesc all at the same time and neither will we lose Vela, Bendtner and Walcott at the same time. It is even more difficult for anyone to get them off us now without having to shell out a large amount of money. I dare say that the barest minimum it would take to pry Cesc of our hands is about 40m and I don't see any club offering that in this season of belt tightening or us not being able to go out and buy big with that kind of money.

debosky:

PS - Utd have always spent big, so claiming they started spending to 'match' Chelski is disingenuous - they bought Stam, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Veron, RVN among other big name expenditures during the period when we were going head to head for titles - as a result, it was no surprise for them to pay so much for Rooney, Hargo and Rio after that period.

Utd will continue to be able to buy players as their bond deal frees up their cash to continue to buy players. If we fail to buy the marquee players to give us the edge, or at least show sufficient desire to win or pick up a 'minor' trophy like the FA cup (NOT CC) we will end up going through the same cycle yet again. Their youth players are often better than ours, especially in defence, and they have as good as, if not a better pull for young British talent. They are able to keep squad members happy, even when not playing frequently - we seem to lack that ability.

The best teams keep their best players, and only sell when they are confident they have sufficient replacements - not Arsenal! We sell too early and end up spending the next 18 months building up someone to take up the same role, after which we repeat the same flaw in yet another part of the team.

We keep being in the 'nearly there' mode. . . .till we find a solution to that, I forsee losing someone integral yet again and being back to square one.

Yes, Manure has always bought big, we've also bought big (relatively) in the past, the bar was raised with the emergence of Chelsea and it became obvious we couldn't continue that with paying back for the stadium so we focused on developing youth. In order to develop youth however, you've got to expose them early to the type of opposition they would be facing which is why the likes of Cesc, Song and Diaby formed our Carling cup team and we've continued to use that competition as a testing ground for youth.
We initially started our youth policy with predominantly English youth (Sidwell, Thomas, Upson, Bentley and co) but with the restrictions on the distances you live from an academy in place preventing us from getting the best youth in England, we had to look abroad (hence the likes of Cesc, Clichy, Song, Bendtner e.t.c.)

For every Bentley and Cashley that leaves, there will be a Clichy and RVP who will resist the overtures of other clubs and stay. In the 07/08 season, we had the 4 musketeers (Rozza, Hleb, Cesc and Flamini) but in 09/10 we now have over 6(add Song, Diaby, Ramsey, Arshavin to the remaining 2) and you've still got the likes of Eastmond and Wilshere waiting in the background and the likes of Lansbury and JET eagerly awaiting a look in if that isn't a step forward for the club, I wonder what is.

Now we definitely can't be silly enough to let all of them go at the same time now can we?
The future is rosy I tell you, just keep the faith.

Sorry i've been out for long,

Whats d word on Chiamaka?

coming this summer.

My brother isnt pleased with Chamakh's signing, he wants one of Dzeko or Benzema instead and TBH, either of those 2 would be nice, he is afraid one of Manure or Chelsea could go for one of those 2 guys. 

Here are his stats on why he thinks Chamack isn't an ideal signing for us:

[Quote]
My people,

I have decided to compare his output to that of some other good strikers, 

08/09 Season, 

Edin Dzeko : - 30 games  - 30 goals & 6 assists (Wolfsburg won the league)

David Villa : 59 games - 49 goals & 8 assists (Valencia finished outside the top 4)

Chamakh : 31 games - 13 goals & 6 assists(Bordeaux won the league)


09/10 Season, 

Edin Dzeko : 29 games - 16 goals & 7 assists (Wolfsburg are midtable this season)

David Villa : 35 games - 28 goals & 6 asists( Valencia are in 3rd position)

Chamakh : 26 games - 10 goals & 1 assist(bordeaux are 3 points clear in the French league)

- Now there is something important to note here for starters the French league is weaker than the EPL, Die Bundesliga & La liga.

I have seen Chamakh a few times and IMHO he is only good enough to be a squad player at the Emirates. Wenger could possibly be looking for the guy to be back up to Rvp, but is he the striker that will put up Torres/Rooney/Drogba type numbers, I think not, the best thing about Chamakh is that he is free, and can play the lone striker role very well, this dude aint prolific at all!

The contract I am hearing they signed him on i.e £10.4m over 4 years is suggesting he is coming to lead the line, I dont like the sound of it at all. This is a player on the Adebayor level at best IMHO, 
[/quote]

I partially agree with him but then Free transfer compared to 25+m no be moimoi, maybe we can still get Villa though as Arsene did say he tried to sign him in January but wouldn't that be overkill? 

Hope Song will make the Port0 clash. . . .

3- 1 win in Porto

FAB4
Gallas/TV5
ED9

Gooners 1800

dayokanu:

How can you include England in a list of countries with talents? Did you smoke saw dust as weed

I'll be lying if I said I expected any better.
The England National Team is full to the brim with talented players.

debosky:

@ Dudu

Abramovic's arrival is the weak excuse we keep hearing. Did Abramovich stop Liverpool from winning the CL in 2005? Did it stop them from making another final appearance a few years after that? How much have Liverpool spent compared to us?

Arsenal has been underperforming - that is the reality. Holding on to 07/08 and 05/06 is well and good, but what happened in 06/07? CC final right? moving to a new stadium right? All well and good.

The nature of the abject failures in 08/09 are enough to make anyone feel this system is not working - you still end up losing one or two vital cogs in the summer and that gap is never filled. In after 07/08 we lost Flamini, Hleb and Gilberto. After 08/09 we lost Ade and Kolo, and only replaced Kolo. If we end up trophy-less this season again (as it appears will happen) we're on course to lose another 'big' player - Gallas, Arshavin or Cesc or a combination of the three.

If/when that happens, we'll be back to our 'nearly' position once again.

PS - Utd have always spent big, so claiming they started spending to 'match' Chelski is disingenuous - they bought Stam, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Veron, RVN among other big name expenditures during the period when we were going head to head for titles - as a result, it was no surprise for them to pay so much for Rooney, Hargo and Rio after that period.

Utd will continue to be able to buy players as their bond deal frees up their cash to continue to buy players. If we fail to buy the marquee players to give us the edge, or at least show sufficient desire to win or pick up a 'minor' trophy like the FA cup (NOT CC) we will end up going through the same cycle yet again. Their youth players are often better than ours, especially in defence, and they have as good as, if not a better pull for young British talent. They are able to keep squad members happy, even when not playing frequently - we seem to lack that ability.

The best teams keep their best players, and only sell when they are confident they have sufficient replacements - not Arsenal! We sell too early and end up spending the next 18 months building up someone to take up the same role, after which we repeat the same flaw in yet another part of the team.

We keep being in the 'nearly there' mode. . . .till we find a solution to that, I forsee losing someone integral yet again and being back to square one.

Brilliant post!!!

Wenger has managed to pull the wool over Duduspace's eyes. . . .The whole Arsenal youth policy is a MYTH!!

Wenger has been using the phrase "the team is maturing" for ages now.
How can it be if it's average age remains so young?
This has been going on for 5 years now.
The answer, of course, is that the players leave once mature, and so you are always in a development phase.

~Sauron~:

Brilliant post!!!

Wenger has managed to pull the wool over Duduspace's eyes. . . .The whole Arsenal youth policy is a MYTH!!

Wenger has been using the phrase "the team is maturing" for ages now.
How can it be if it's average age remains so young?
This has been going on for 5 years now.
The answer, of course, is that the players leave once mature, and so you are always in a development phase.

What happened to debo? did he finally part ways with the pre-season ''In Arsene we trust'' slogan?

Anyways, I'm glad the scales have fallen off our eyes.

Wenger is a good manager, he is just stubborn and arrogant. He has said though, that he will reconsider his youth policy if he fails to win anything again this season. With the rumoured signing of Chamakh (25), maybe he is already considering that.

I'm trying not to focus on this season anymore (though a tiny bit of me wants to believe there's still a chance to win the PL), end of season, we need to let go of Campbell (I hope he's not thinking of extending the loan deal), Silvestre, Almunia and at least 2 of the other outfield players (Il leave LeBoss to decide who and who). Then we bring in quality players and not U21s. We have enough young players in the reserve/U18s to last us another 3 seasons (we beat Chelsea reserves tonight!!!!). Luke Freeman, Coquelin, Aylin, Sunu, JET and Barazite are players that readily come to mind. We don't need to buy more!

There's also this thing about the ManU team. I agree with those who say the team is young. But even when the young players play, they play with that 'indestructable' air around them. That's because they have a winning mentality. The first team has passed this on to them. That's where winning trophies comes into play. Fabregas has really improved in the past season. He is European Champion! Its not his skills or vision that has improved, its his mentality! Gallas brought that to our team at the early stages. We need to win a trophy to have that mentality, even if its the Carling Cup!

For this season, let's keep hoping. Who knows, United and Chelsea maybe knocked out of the Champions League and we may have an easy passage to the finals where its anyone's game. Who says I can't dream?

On a funny note cos I'm sure Debosky won't like the sound of this at all, if you are still wondering where our money is going to, take a look at this, perhaps this is what that 40m from the sale of Kolo and Adebayor went towards?  

Newlon signs up for Queensland Road project

Arsenal Football Club is pleased to announce that a critical contract with the affordable and key worker homes provider, Newlon Housing Trust, has now been signed. This paves the way for the start of the Queensland Road development, situated adjacent to Emirates Stadium.
The initial building works for the development, which received planning permission in March 2009, will consist of the construction of[b] 354 affordable housing units and an Arsenal Sports Centre, which will support and provide a venue for Arsenal's many educational and social inclusion community programmes. [/b] The affordable housing units and Arsenal Sports Centre are expected to be completed in 2013.

Planning permission has also been granted for the construction of a further 375 residential units on the Queensland Road development. The construction timetable for this element of the project has yet to be confirmed.

Meself wan go buy shares in Arsenal football club, who will loan me 10K GBP?  

Meanwhile, enjoy another Mad Jens moment! How Almunia replaced this guy, Il never know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej04-QBhnoE

duduspace:

On a funny note cos I'm sure Debosky won't like the sound of this at all, if you are still wondering where our money is going to, take a look at this, perhaps this is what that 40m from the sale of Kolo and Adebayor went towards?  

Wrong - the property business is completely ring-fenced from the property business, which has it's own stand alone loans with no recourse to footballing income. The last accounts show NO transfer from the footballing side to the property side or vice versa and no provisions have been made to do so as yet. The loans for Queensland have been secured and are not based on football income to support them.

I have read the past 3 Arsenal Holdings results inside out and there is nothing to show that they have been transferring profits from the footie side to property development, and with the loans and projected profitability of the building projects, no reason to do so either.

Even if the 'profits' were used for building, it is yet another case of selling the future, effectively postponing the future till AFTER 2013. By that time the stadium might be empty due to fans refusing to pay the most exorbitant ticket prices in Europe to watch a team unable to win anything.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate Arsenal's contribution to society and attempts to diversify its income. BUT if that is done at the expense  of the footballing aspect of things, then that is where I draw the line.

Arsenal FC will suffer greatly if we continue this barren spell of no trophies - we will be unable to compete for the hearts and minds of Asians and Americans who represent the financial income base fo the future. Those unconverted will never be swayed by only 'beautiful' football with no results.

Arsenal Reserves 2 V chelsea reserves 1

If only it was the first team that had this scoreline the other time,

^^^signs of the future.

Who's up to see Beckham kick a shoe into Demento's face today?!!!

^^^
That team may be Arsenal's future team, it definitely isn't Chelsea's future team. Trust Abrahamovich to spend some millions to bring in more quality players.

debosky:

Arsenal FC will suffer greatly if we continue this barren spell of no trophies - we will be unable to compete for the hearts and minds of Asians and Americans who represent the financial income base fo the future. Those unconverted will never be swayed by only 'beautiful' football with no results.

They are suffering greatly already!!!

Debosky
thts a brilliant piece u have up there

now ure using ur brain ; good one

tkb417:

Debosky
thts a brilliant piece u have up there

now ure using your brain ; good one

Debosky has seen the light.
United's last 2 visits to the Emiraaaati have told Debosky levels pass levels.

~Sauron~:

Debosky has seen the light.
United's last 2 visits have told Debosky levels pass levels.

i believe u my brother

used to feel like dt when we had Djemba Djemba, Fortune, Roy Carol and co
shitty players

Yawaa don gas, AA23,Gallas, Eduardo*, Aluminium and Song did not make it to Portugal. This is not good news at all for the CL hopefuls.

ARSENAL AN EXTENSION OF AYAX OF AMSTERDAM.  SAME SELLING POLICY.  

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT AYAX WON SILVER WARE, BUT THEIR RAISING KIDS AND SELLING THEM HAS CAUGHT UP WITH THEM AND THEY ARE FALLING BEHIND IN THE DUTCH LEAGUE.

THAT'S A SIMILAR TREND IN ARSENAL.

DEBOSKY WELL DONE FOR YOUR INSIGHT.

WE KEEP HEARING THERE IS MONEY TO SPEND, SO WHY THEN IS IT NOT SPENT ON PLAYERS? MY CONCLUSION IS THAT ARSENAL IS BROKE AND THE MANAGER AND BOARD ARE PLAYING CAT AND MOUSE;

THE FANS MUST PROTEST AND SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.  BY THE TIME THEY DONT ATTEND A CLASH WITH CHELSEA, THEY WILL BE SENDING A BIG MESSAGE TO ARSENE STURBON AND THOSE SILLY EXECUTIVES.

Porto wins first leg 2-0.