Poster, dont mind all those saying you should pay your rent. Pay your tithe jare, once you get kicked out of your apartment for not being able to pay, you'll go live with your pastor since being a smarter person;he would have surely paid his own rent. Whichever way, you shouldn't be homeless.
Abi?

viaro:

Hello KunleOshob,

If I am ignorant, it is all well - so I could learn what I don't know by seeking knowledge from experienced teachers of God's Word. That is what I did when anti-tithers started arguing that Hebrews 7:18 "abolishes" tithe. If that were so, I wanted to see the theological basis that sustains that argument, and I found none. There could possibly be some, but honest to God, the only source that came to hand in my search theologically arguing such was a treatise from the Quackers, which was consequently soundly refutted. Yet, the overwhelming theological scholarship across all evangelical quarters that I'm aware of, INCLUDING MAJOR ANTI-TITHING THEOLOGIANS, all agree that Hebrews 7:18 was not abolishing tithes but rather something else.

This 'something else' is what I have excerpted and further discussed in posts #242, particularly #243, and #244.

I have sought to approach this subject as I have often tended to do - and that is, follow the basic principle of Biblical exegesis and not violate that by giving a private interpretation to any verse of the Bible (2 Peter 1:20 - "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

If you carefully go through the posts where I discussed this very issue (unless you want me to repost them here), then I reckon you will find your answers there. Cheers.

I have read the posts you referred me to and not one single one of them answers my question. All i saw was long vain and meaningless attempts to say that heb 7:18 doesn't anull tithing when it clearly does. My question remains can you in[b] one simple sentence [/b] state which commandment was anulled in verse 18 considering the fact that the only commandement previously mentioned in that passage was the commandment to tithe inverse 5 from the KJV

KunleOshob:

I have read the posts you referred me to and not one single one of them answers my question. All i saw was long vain and meaningless attempts to say that heb 7:18 doesn't anull tithing when it clearly does.

That shows that you did not read them at all. I clearly put what those excerpts were pointing to before quoting them, If you are convinced that after reading them you want to write them off as "meaningless", it does not show me that you're out for a discussion - and rather than start all over again with long arguments to no import, I would not be going down that path with you, sorry.

When you honestly can read and draw out from those excerpts the very things that are unmistaken, we can discuss further, thank you.

My question remains can you in[b] one simple sentence [/b] state which commandment was anulled in verse 18 considering the fact that the only commandement previously mentioned in that passage was the commandment to tithe inverse 5 from the KJV

That question has been answered already, please see post referred above.

lordbayor:

Am surprise that some folks still argue about tithing, and to the person who posted and to all those who have been making comment i have somethings to ask

First who said we should pay Tithe (is it GOD or PASTORS)

Pastors asked christians to be tithing, this should not be confused with God's commandment to the children of Israel under the levitical priesthood to tithe a tenth of the produce of the land [not money] and eat out of the tithes with the poor, needy and levites. [deut 14:22-29]

What is tithe (Is it part of your earnings or one tenth of you earnings)

Bibical tithes is a tithe of the produce of one's land or every tenth animal that passes under the rod. It had absolutely nothing to do with other income the Israelites were earning then contrary to the twisted version preached in churches today.

When did tithing started

Tithing started in mesopotamia {mordern day Iraq} were abraham was from. It was a part of their traditions and customs and that was probably why he gave a tithe of his war loot to the King of Salem

What happen when you give your tithe and what happens when you don't

You loose a tenth of your income and your pastor smiles to the bank  

who gives tithe

People that have been deceived into believing that tithing is a part of the christian faith rather than a twisted version of an obsolete jewish practise that as been outlawed with the anullment of the Jewish laws.

i don't have anything to say now anybody who want to say anything can ask because am sure the person who posted this topic have to check himself very well and remember "The Spiritual controls the Physical because the Manifestation of the Spiritual are been witness in the Physical

[i]The word of God is there to see so before you say anything to me make sure you are been inspired from the inside by the Holy spirit

Well you obviously did not have much to say probably due to your shallow knowledge of the tithing concept and the scam derived from it.

KunleOshob:

Tithing started in mesopotamia {mordern day Iraq} were abraham was from.

Please, could you show us your source for that statement - that tithing started in Mesopotamia?

It was a part of their traditions and customs and that was probably why he gave a tithe of his war loot to the King of Salem

Could you show us where the Bible teaches your probability on that statement?

____________________

KunleOshob:

who gives tithe

People that have been deceived into believing that tithing is a part of the christian faith rather than a twisted version of an obsolete jewish practise that as been outlawed with the anullment of the Jewish laws.

I know that Pastor Tunde Bakare says he gives tithes - has he been deceived as well?

viaro:

Please, could you show us your source for that statement - that tithing started in Mesopotamia?

Could you show us where the Bible teaches your probability on that statement?

I won't bother answering these question as i remember vividly well that we already discussed it thouroughly when you were still using your pilgrim.1 I.D and you agreed with me from scriptures that Abraham the first recorded tither in the bible is from mesopotamia. [the land of your in babylonia] Any one hat needs more info on the true origin of tithes hould just do a google search on "babylonian tithe". Kindly note that the babylonian civilization predates the jewish civilization and infact the Progenitor of the Jews Abraham was actually from babylonia

Hebrew is a Semitic language, related to Akkadian, the lingua franca of that time. An Akkadian noun that Abraham was most likely familiar with given his Babylonian background was esretu, meaning "one-tenth". By the time of Abraham, this phrase was used to refer to the "one-tenth tax," or "tithe". Listed below are some specific instances of the Mesopotamian tithe, taken from The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Vol. 4 "E":

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#The_Esretu_.E2.80.94_the_standard_Babylonian_one-tenth_tax

Omo if you like pay the tithe and move into the Church with your family (and hope the Pastor doesnt take over your wife join to the money).
Mugu

KunleOshob:

I won't bother answering these question as i remember vividly well that we already discussed it thouroughly when you were still using your pilgrim.1 I.D and you agreed with me from scriptures that Abraham the first recorded tither in the bible is from mesopotamia. [the land of your in babylonia]

It is okay if you won't answer the question - honestly, I didn't think you would, as I already know that anti-tithers are never open to discussions and never would answer simple questions. I don't remember discussing the origin of tithes with you even if you confuse me with pilgrim.1, but that's okay.

Besides all this, I saw the thread last night where she kept asking you again and again about that same question and you dribbled tight here and there and categorically DENIED asserting that tithing began in Mesopotamia - only to show up here again making the same assertion {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"} which you once denied. Why are you anti-tithers never consistent and LIE all through your Nairaland careers? Why is it that the only things that mark the way you discuss is shameless, gutless falsehood??  

Any one hat needs more info on the true origin of tithes hould just do a google search on "babylonian tithe". Kindly note that the babylonian civilization predates the jewish civilization and infact the Progenitor of the Jews Abraham was actually from babylonia

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#The_Esretu_.E2.80.94_the_standard_Babylonian_one-tenth_tax

Does that link tell you that tithing STARTED IN Mesopotamia?

It's not a big deal, really. I just wanted to know the sort of person you truly are, since I had hopes of thinking you had been possibly misrepresented. But lying through your teeth again just deflates that hope - so you can keep confirming your falsehood and double-standards, for there's nothing further for me to add!  

Kunle, Zikkyl:

You can't get anywhere with these guys, we ought to keep them in our prayers though.

A Christian is supposed to keep Babylonian tradition? There must be something I am missing here if tithe originated from that empire and we still practice is while calling our selves saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Giving is a Christian requirement and the mode of giving seems to be the point of contention, the dude that posted that stuff about the woman who couldn't sell her ware because she stopped paying tithe ought to be in line for a Nobel prize because he sounded like Pastor "Joe" or is a tithe recipient. God is not a politician to engage in quid pro quo

The only value money has is the one we ascribe to it and people have been know to want to do anything to get their hands on this filthy piece of paper, make one wonder.

viaro:

It is okay if you won't answer the question - honestly, I didn't think you would, as I already know that anti-tithers are never open to discussions and never would answer simple questions. I don't remember discussing the origin of tithes with you even if you confuse me with pilgrim.1, but that's okay.

Besides all this, I saw the thread last night where she kept asking you again and again about that same question and you dribbled tight here and there and categorically DENIED asserting that tithing began in Mesopotamia - only to show up here again making the same assertion {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"} which you once denied. Why are you anti-tithers never consistent and LIE all through your Nairaland careers? Why is it that the only things that mark the way you discuss is shameless, gutless falsehood??

Does that link tell you that tithing STARTED IN Mesopotamia?

It's not a big deal, really. I just wanted to know the sort of person you truly are, since I had hopes of thinking you had been possibly misrepresented. But lying through your teeth again just deflates that hope - so you can keep confirming your falsehood and double-standards, for there's nothing further for me to add!

on the contrary you aree the one who is a pathological and chronic liar as i never denied that tithing starte from mesopotamia even in that link that you posted. I now understand why they say that common sense is not common. The first documented case of tithing was done by a man from mesopotamia [abraham] centuries before Israel came into existence, there are also independent records of pagan tithing traditions in the mesopotamia area at that time yet someone in her right senses is trying to deny the origins of tithing. It is clear that the baylonian civilization predates the jewish, it is also clear that they were practising tithing centuries before the Israelites even existed and we know for a fact that the Israelites roots through Abraham is also from babylon. does common sense not dictate that that they learnt tithing from their pagan babylonian ancestors That apart archaeological sources provides evidence that the summerian civilization [also from mesopotamia area] is the world oldest civilization and they practised tithing so common sense dictates that they must have originated it being the world's oldest civilization

ogajim:

You can't get anywhere with these guys, we ought to keep them in our prayers though.

Lol, did you notice your mob-gang is getting closer to what we have been saying all along on principles and not literalism? No, you didn't? Maybe we should hold you up in your own prayers.

A Christian is supposed to keep Babylonian tradition?

There again - is that precisely what I or any other said?

There must be something I am missing here if tithe originated from that empire and we still practice is while calling our selves saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

That was what I asked you mentor and he denied what he already asserted. It wasn't a big deal and I didn't post that question as a trick-question to catch him out. But he showed clearly that he is quite at home to lie between two posts, and that sums it all up for me. I thank you guys very much for convincing me of your hallmark to deliberate falsehood - if it helps your Christian testimony, that's okay.

Giving is a Christian requirement and the mode of giving seems to be the point of contention

Oh shooks! There goes another "requirement" flagged as "Christian" in the subject of "giving". Please be consistent and don't try to resurrect what we already have trashed out: giving (in any form or type) is NOT a requirement, NOT compulsory - but rather VOLUNTARY and comes from the heart. Let it remain as simple as that and don't confuse it with an appeal to REQUIREMENT!

Pay tithe (relocate under d bridge).

Pay your rent to keep your cosy apartment.

Either way, God understands. He is not Man.

KunleOshob:

on the contrary you aree the one who is a pathological and chronic liar as i never denied that tithing starte from mesopotamia even in that link that you posted. I now understand why they say that common sense is not common.

Liars will always come back to show their inconsistency - and I've understood you to be captain of anti-tithing liars, no big deal. The record still stands, and there's nothing you can do to wipe it clean other than admit your error. I shall leave it again and let it be -

(a) Kunle said: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}

(b) viaro asked: {Please, could you show us your source for that statement - that tithing started in Mesopotamia?}

(c)  Kunle replies: {I won't bother answering these question}

I understand why you won't answer the question - you saw your falsehood being exposed and you panicked. But as regards the direct denials you're waving here and there and saying two directly opposite things, here it is:

(a1) Kunle in the other thread: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(a2) Kunle in this thread: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}


(b1)  my observation in this thread:
         Kunle denied saying that tithing originated from Mesopotamia:
        {Besides all this, I saw the thread last night where she kept asking you again
         and again about that same question and you dribbled tight here and there and
         categorically DENIED asserting that tithing began in Mesopotamia}
         ~~ see (a1) above: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(b2)  my observation in this thread:
       Kunle in this threads shows up asserting what he denied earlier:
       {only to show up here again making the same assertion
       {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"} which you once denied.}


So, please tell me the difference in your lying spree between these two:

         (a) "I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"

         (b) "Tithing started in mesopotamia"

You can keep your gutless hypocrisy and slow poison, KunleOshob - that's what plays out many times in the way you argue. Never consistent, hastily jumping to conclusions, and then brazenly lying on top of everything. Well done!

The first documented case of tithing was done by a man from mesopotamia [abraham] centuries before Israel came into existence, there are also independent records of pagan tithing traditions in the mesopotamia area at that time yet someone in her right senses is trying to deny the origins of tithing.

How does that show that "TITHING STARTED IN MESOPOTAMIA" which you asserted here but deny in the other thread?

It is clear that the baylonian civilization predates the jewish, it is also clear that they were practising tithing centuries before the Israelites even existed and we know for a fact that the Israelites roots through Abraham is also from babylon. does common sense not dictate that that they learnt tithing from their pagan babylonian ancestors

Common sense helps us see that lying between two posts is unhealthy - in the first you claimed never to have said tithing began in mesopotamia, now in this thread you asserted the very thing you once denied! What common sense is there in this cacophony?

That apart archaeological sources provides evidence that the summerian civilization [also from mesopotamia area] is the world oldest civilization and they practised tithing so common sense dictates that they must have originated it being the world's oldest civilization

Where do those evidence lead to your assertion that denies one thing and then acclaims the same thing in another as regards the origin of tithes?

Omase oooooo!

viaro:

Liars will always come back to show their inconsistency - and I've understood you to be captain of anti-tithing liars, no big deal. The record still stands, and there's nothing you can do to wipe it clean other than admit your error. I shall leave it again and let it be -

(a) Kunle said: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}

(b) viaro asked: {Please, could you show us your source for that statement - that tithing started in Mesopotamia?}

(c) Kunle replies: {I won't bother answering these question}

I understand why you won't answer the question - you saw your falsehood being exposed and you panicked. But as regards the direct denials you're waving here and there and saying two directly opposite things, here it is:

(a1) Kunle in the other thread: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(a2) Kunle in this thread: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}


(b1) my observation in this thread:
Kunle denied saying that tithing originated from Mesopotamia:
{Besides all this, I saw the thread last night where she kept asking you again
and again about that same question and you dribbled tight here and there and
categorically DENIED asserting that tithing began in Mesopotamia}
~~ see (a1) above: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(b2) my observation in this thread:
Kunle in this threads shows up asserting what he denied earlier:
{only to show up here again making the same assertion
{"Tithing started in mesopotamia"} which you once denied.}


So, please tell me the difference in your lying spree between these two:

(a) "I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"

(b) "Tithing started in mesopotamia"

You can keep your gutless hypocrisy and slow poison, KunleOshob - that's what plays out many times in the way you argue. Never consistent, hastily jumping to conclusions, and then brazenly lying on top of everything. Well done!

How does that show that "TITHING STARTED IN MESOPOTAMIA" which you asserted here but deny in the other thread?

Common sense helps us see that lying between two posts is unhealthy - in the first you claimed never to have said tithing began in mesopotamia, now in this thread you asserted the very thing you once denied! What common sense is there in this cacophony?

Where do those evidence lead to your assertion that denies one thing and then acclaims the same thing in another as regards the origin of tithes?

Everyone knows his incosistencies, He will just do anything at all cost just to win argument. Make yeye of churches and pastors in view of umbelievers that we are labouring to save for christ .

^^^

Viaro vs KunleOshob! Chei. . . Make you guys take am easy o. But shoo. . . money matter dey cause wahala o!

Everyone knows his incosistencies, He will just do anything at all cost just to win argument. Make yeye of churches and pastors in view of umbelievers that we are labouring to save for christ .


Talo je beyen?


Abeg make we hear word jare, no one is making yeye of "Churches" but the scams that comes out of those so called Churches.

Next time Pastor, make use of the spell check provided on NL,

Quick question: Does the guy who own this site "Give" in the Christian way? I mean he created this forum for us to hash out a whole lot of stuff concerning Nigeria, I'll wait for your answer, Feds are closed no work today

ogajim:

Quick question: Does the guy who own this site "Give" in the Christian way? I mean he created this forum for us to hash out a whole lot of stuff concerning Nigeria, I'll wait for your answer, Feds are closed no work today

I did not get your questionn well. and Please the name is joagbaje, not "pastor"

Joagbaje:

I did not get your questionn well. and Please the name is joagbaje, not "pastor"

My question was:


Can the guy who created NL be classified a giver based on this alone considering the kind of impact he has made with this site and the millions of people who have benefited from it one way or another?

My point has been that giving can not be regulated, it must come from the HEART (from the abundance of which speaket the mouth), there is no requirement to give a percentage ( I have not seen it if it exists)

We are God's property and then somehow, he needs a share from what's his? The lack of sufficient offerings and other forms of giving is not enough reason to twist the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for financial gains.

Na wa oooh. You guys have turned this thread to something else. I will need a bulletproof vest and helmet to survive here  Infact i considered backing out, only i have promised Viaro i will be back with my concerns.

@Kunle/Viaro, i am looking forward to the e-party that will be organised for you guys the day you settle your quarrel 

@Viaro

viaro:
Those who receive the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes of their own brethren - but verse 6 shows that even where someone (Melchizedek) was not counted from their pedigree, he also received tithes from the Levites! He would not have been able to do so if and only if (iff) the PRIESTHOOD was a less important issue in the faith of God's people - and it is the priesthood that makes all the difference

The post above was what got me confused as I believed that verse was trying to emphasize the superiority of the Melchizedek priesthood over that of the Levites and nothing more. The comment above appears to see Abraham’s action as an actual tithing activity by the descendants of Abrahams.

Reading through Hebrews 7:1 to verse 8, I would say the writer was still referring to Melchizedek and again the emphasis on the superiority of the priesthood. I am having difficulty interpreting it to imply a continuity of the tithing practice.

Joagbaje:

I did not get your questionn well. and Please the name is joagbaje, not "pastor"

Why you dey fear to answer your name?

Zikkyy:

Why you dey fear to answer your name?

The name your father called him? I think you guys prefer native doctors in nairaland. Abi you are a Abu zola? Hatred flows in your veins.

@Traugott, Zikkyy and all who visit this thread (including my anti-tithing friends ),

Once again I apologise to you all for the way things have turned out. It started simply, progressed with a rumbling, and now seems to have spiralled into a hurricane! Such is the way debates between people on this subject tend to pan out, and I'm not glorying over it - which is why I won't go so far as to lay blame on anyone. On my part, I simply apologise and hope to move on.

____________________

Zikkyy:

@Viaro

viaro: Those who receive the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes of their own brethren - but verse 6 shows that even where someone (Melchizedek) was not counted from their pedigree, he also received tithes from the Levites! He would not have been able to do so if and only if (iff) the PRIESTHOOD was a less important issue in the faith of God's people - and it is the priesthood that makes all the difference

The post above was what got me confused as I believed that verse was trying to emphasize the superiority of the Melchizedek priesthood over that of the Levites and nothing more. The comment above appears to see Abraham’s action as an actual tithing activity by the descendants of Abrahams.

I understand where you're coming from and regret any confusion that might seemingly have risen from that section of my post - it was not intended, and I trust that you could understand it was not encouraging coercive giving at any instance.

Reading through Hebrews 7:1 to verse 8, I would say the writer was still referring to Melchizedek and again the emphasis on the superiority of the priesthood. I am having difficulty interpreting it to imply a continuity of the tithing practice.

Again, there's nobody I know of who does not have difficulties with these things. I acknowledged several times that the thrust of the book of Hebrews was the superiority of the work, the Person and the Priesthood of the Lord Jesus Christ; but particularly with reference to chapter 7 there is no sound theological scholarship arguing that either verse 5 or 8 or 18 "abolishes" tithe. Rather, I have agreed with a few here and elsewhere that these things are not pictured for us in a sense of literalism, but rather showing us principles - the same thing that, at least, TV01 has come back to agree to.

I have made this point clear as simply as I could, excerpting examples from various sources to show the same thing, and noting that my convictions are not to be regarded as 'law' or 'binding' on anyone else who disagrees. The One Person there who lives perpetually is Christ, and I showed verses that led me to that persuasion. The persuasion I argued was not meant to be regarded as a "mandate", and I do hope that that point is always kept in view.

Regards.

ogajim:

My question was:
Can the guy who created NL be classified a giver based on this alone considering the kind of impact he has made with this site and the millions of people who have benefited from it one way or another?

My point has been that giving can not be regulated, it must come from the HEART (from the abundance of which speaket the mouth), there is no requirement to give a percentage ( I have not seen it if it exists)

We are God's property and then somehow, he needs a share from what's his? The lack of sufficient offerings and other forms of giving is not enough reason to twist the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for financial gains.

I have often asked myself if the owner of NL makes money from it, and if he doesnt I will like to contribute financially. Me as a giver dont like to enjoy things free. I use wikipedia and i used to think they make money from it until one day i saw the owner soliciting for donation. It touched me and i said  i have to send money to them" I was going to do a post to ask how naira land is funded. Nigerians like free things.

Life is giving and recieving, even the eco system of gases shows that. The purpose of every venture is contributing to life. NL is contributing to life, Taxi driver is contributing to life.

There is no twixting of scripures as regards tithing. If a man believes in it, you leave him alone so far as he is fulfiled and blessed by it. I am not approaching tithing as a pastor but as a Christian . Why will a pastor twist scripture on tithing for gains, 10% is too small. I give 30% apart from other things i give. Some are giving lands , houses, for gospel why will only 10% be a reason to twist scriptures.   If a man has gift of healing why would he be teaching on 10% when he could have said "if you need a baby ,bring 1million naira"  some will gladly pay 10 million to have a child or get rid of a life threatning cancer.  No pastor forces anybody, He teaches and he goes away.There is nothing like compolsory tithing . Everything is voluntary in the church , even prayer is not by force. So every one should work with their convictions as Paul said.

Romans 14:5
   One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

viaro:

Liars will always come back to show their inconsistency - and I've understood you to be captain of anti-tithing liars, no big deal. The record still stands, and there's nothing you can do to wipe it clean other than admit your error. I shall leave it again and let it be -

(a) Kunle said: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}

(b) viaro asked: {Please, could you show us your source for that statement - that tithing started in Mesopotamia?}

(c) Kunle replies: {I won't bother answering these question}

I understand why you won't answer the question - you saw your falsehood being exposed and you panicked. But as regards the direct denials you're waving here and there and saying two directly opposite things, here it is:

(a1) Kunle in the other thread: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(a2) Kunle in this thread: {"Tithing started in mesopotamia"}


(b1) my observation in this thread:
Kunle denied saying that tithing originated from Mesopotamia:
{Besides all this, I saw the thread last night where she kept asking you again
and again about that same question and you dribbled tight here and there and
categorically DENIED asserting that tithing began in Mesopotamia}
~~ see (a1) above: {"I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"}

(b2) my observation in this thread:
Kunle in this threads shows up asserting what he denied earlier:
{only to show up here again making the same assertion
{"Tithing started in mesopotamia"} which you once denied.}


So, please tell me the difference in your lying spree between these two:

(a) "I never said tithing originated from mesopotamia"

(b) "Tithing started in mesopotamia"

You can keep your gutless hypocrisy and slow poison, KunleOshob - that's what plays out many times in the way you argue. Never consistent, hastily jumping to conclusions, and then brazenly lying on top of everything. Well done!

How does that show that "TITHING STARTED IN MESOPOTAMIA" which you asserted here but deny in the other thread?

Common sense helps us see that lying between two posts is unhealthy - in the first you claimed never to have said tithing began in mesopotamia, now in this thread you asserted the very thing you once denied! What common sense is there in this cacophony?

Where do those evidence lead to your assertion that denies one thing and then acclaims the same thing in another as regards the origin of tithes?

@Pilgrim.1
I only stated that I did not say tithing began in mesopotamia" becos of your penchant to grab at trivialities and and make big arguments out of them whilstignoring the weightier matters of the subject being discussed so i made that consession to pull the rug off your legs and get you to disccus the weighteir matters i was emphasizing in that thread. I want to repeat for emphasis that from all the biblical and extra biblical evidence that we have, tithing did indeed start in mesopotamia several centuries before the Jewish civilization and it is of pagan origins, if you have any evidence to the contrary present it here now instead of grabbing at straws and playing with semantics so as not to expose your folly.

viaro:

@Traugott, Zikkyy and all who visit this thread (including my anti-tithing friends ),

Once again I apologise to you all for the way things have turned out. It started simply, progressed with a rumbling, and now seems to have spiralled into a hurricane! Such is the way debates between people on this subject tend to pan out, and I'm not glorying over it - which is why I won't go so far as to lay blame on anyone. On my part, I simply apologise and hope to move on.

____________________

The post above was what got me confused as I believed that verse was trying to emphasize the superiority of the Melchizedek priesthood over that of the Levites and nothing more. The comment above appears to see Abraham’s action as an actual tithing activity by the descendants of Abrahams.

I understand where you're coming from and regret any confusion that might seemingly have risen from that section of my post - it was not intended, and I trust that you could understand it was not encouraging coercive giving at any instance.

Again, there's nobody I know of who does not have difficulties with these things. I acknowledged several times that the thrust of the book of Hebrews was the superiority of the work, the Person and the Priesthood of the Lord Jesus Christ; but particularly with reference to chapter 7 there is no sound theological scholarship arguing that either verse 5 or 8 or 18 "abolishes" tithe. Rather, I have agreed with a few here and elsewhere that these things are not pictured for us in a sense of literalism, but rather showing us principles - the same thing that, at least, TV01 has come back to agree to.

I have made this point clear as simply as I could, excerpting examples from various sources to show the same thing, and noting that my convictions are not to be regarded as 'law' or 'binding' on anyone else who disagrees. The One Person there who lives perpetually is Christ, and I showed verses that led me to that persuasion. The persuasion I argued was not meant to be regarded as a "mandate", and I do hope that that point is always kept in view.

Regards.

Ba wahala 

KunleOshob:

@Pilgrim.1
I only stated that I did not say tithing began in mesopotamia" becos of your penchant to grab at trivialities and and make big arguments out of them whilstignoring the weightier matters of the subject being discussed so i made that consession to pull the rug off your legs and get you to disccus the weighteir matters i was emphasizing in that thread. I want to repeat for emphasis that from all the biblical and extra biblical evidence that we have, tithing did indeed start in mesopotamia several centuries before the Jewish civilization and it is of pagan origins, if you have any evidence to the contrary present it here now instead of grabbing at straws and playing with semantics so as not to expose your folly.

Oh please end your career of LYING through your teeth and falling all over yourself. You've shown me the 'real' KunleOshob is a gutless liar and nothing more to add. The day you start telling the truth is the day dinosaurs will come back to Hyde Park!

nuella2:

The name your father called him? I think you guys prefer native doctors in nairaland. Abi you are a Abu zola? Hatred flows in your veins.

Are you the P.A  

Joagbaje:

I have often asked myself if the owner of NL makes money from it, and if he doesnt I will like to contribute financially. Me as a giver dont like to enjoy things free. I use wikipedia and i used to think they make money from it until one day i saw the owner soliciting for donation. It touched me and i said  i have to send money to them" I was going to do a post to ask how naira land is funded. Nigerians like free things.

Life is giving and recieving, even the eco system of gases shows that. The purpose of every venture is contributing to life. NL is contributing to life, Taxi driver is contributing to life.

There is no twixting of scripures as regards tithing. If a man believes in it, you leave him alone so far as he is fulfiled and blessed by it. I am not approaching tithing as a pastor but as a Christian . Why will a pastor twist scripture on tithing for gains, 10% is too small. I give 30% apart from other things i give. Some are giving lands , houses, for gospel why will only 10% be a reason to twist scriptures.   If a man has gift of healing why would he be teaching on 10% when he could have said "if you need a baby ,bring 1million naira"  some will gladly pay 10 million to have a child or get rid of a life threatning cancer.  No pastor forces anybody, He teaches and he goes away.There is nothing like compolsory tithing . Everything is voluntary in the church , even prayer is not by force. So every one should work with their convictions as Paul said.

Romans 14:5
   One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The greatest things in the World (Air, Sun, etc) are free and I don't blame any Nigerian for getting anything they could for free either. If Nigerians like free things as you stated, how come no one can get contract without the Customary 10%(Could that be called tithe paid to the owner?)? You as a Christian ought to refrain from generalization Jo.

NL owner has done more for Nigeria than those politicos, pastors, etc who parade themselves as "leaders of Nigeria" and everything is not about money dude.

Nuella2.0: Do you work for a Church/Pastor?

Joagbaje:

I have often asked myself if the owner of NL makes money from it, and if he doesnt I will like to contribute financially. Me as a giver dont like to enjoy things free. I use wikipedia and i used to think they make money from it until one day i saw the owner soliciting for donation. It touched me and i said  i have to send money to them" I was going to do a post to ask how naira land is funded.

You too much abeg! I hope you dont mind if i start calling you Pastor Jo 'The Money Man' Agbaje  

Joagbaje:

There is nothing like compolsory tithing .

Thank you.

Zikkyy:

You too much abeg! I hope you dont mind if i start calling you Pastor Jo 'The Money Man' Agbaje

joagbaje pls