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A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work - Religion (14) - Nairaland

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Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 11:27pm On Sep 11
Abeg I dey go sleep make I get strength for the tomorrow attackers. cheesy

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Tonyosas101(m): 12:00am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


If you go through the thread you will see I was hinting on the beginning of everything. I did not want the thread to follow the normal pattern people are used to because I did not want copy and paste everywhere.

I wanted people to carry out their own unbiased research. So you will see " the beginning of everything " being hinted and since water is the focus I wanted everyone to research the origin of water.

The answer is what I already gave from my own research so anyone is free to argue that with their own unbiased research.
My bad then cos I didn't carry out any research but I still don't get how the answer you gave tallies with the question you asked
That's why I pleaded for the main question & the main answer

Thumbs up for the research you carried out, learnt a lot from it & hope to learn more

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 6:57am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:

My bad then cos I didn't carry out any research but I still don't get how the answer you gave tallies with the question you asked
That's why I pleaded for the main question & the main answer

Thumbs up for the research you carried out, learnt a lot from it & hope to learn more

Here is one honest individual! Now bro the question was meant to distract everyone from the main objective and it worked very well. A few people asked for hints towards the answer and the hints I have clearly showed I was not asking for how mankind would be able to create water. At a point i had to say it in clear terms that, that was not the focus of the thread and everyone should look away from that as it was meant to distract from the main purpose" . However right here we still find them talking about the same question which I repeatedly said was a distraction. grin

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by ModusOperandi(f): 7:30am On Sep 12
Remember It says God first created the heavens and the earth and then the spirit of God hovered over the surface of the waters. This means the earth came first and then waters before anything else

interesting read, but you lost me at the bolded.

if oxygen from the stars was essential for water formation, how did water exist before anything else? didn't God create the stars on the fourth day? does anything else include the stars?

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 7:46am On Sep 12
ModusOperandi:


interesting read, but you lost me at the bolded.

if oxygen from the stars was essential for water formation, how did water exist before anything else? didn't God create the stars on the fourth day? does anything else include the stars?




The saying that oxygen from the stars was essential for water creation on earth is purely speculative talk by scientists which is why they argue about it till date since it cannot be agreed upon generally. Saying water existed before anything else means water existed before all other creation on earth but came after the earth was formed.

Now let's even assume asteroids brought this water as ice to the earth why then is water perfectly suited to this earth and everything on it? Coincidence?

Remember this part of my post



Water is colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has wide margin between its boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water

Look at each of waters characteristic which is so perfectly suited to life on earth yet some scientists argue it came from asteroids. Why did this water "decide" to "by chance" hold all the right qualities for life on earth to depend on it? Did water adapt? Did water mutate? Did water evolve for this purpose from outside the earth?

Can water do any of these things?

If we assume water did evolve to suit the earths needs and this water came from asteroids then that would mean we are dealing with evolution beyond our Earth and that would also mean that we are dealing with a mega ultra stroke of luck occurrence of which evolution on earths chances of occurring are infinitismal how much more the chances of water which is perfectly suited for all life on earth to come from asteroids to the earth.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by JackBizzle: 10:02am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


Here is one honest individual! Now bro the question was meant to distract everyone from the main objective and it worked very well. A few people asked for hints towards the answer and the hints I have clearly showed I was not asking for how mankind would be able to create water. At a point i have to say it in clear terms that, that was not the focus of the thread and everyone should look away from that as it was meant to distract from the main purpose" . However right here we still find them talking about the same question which I repeatedly said was a distraction. grin


I am impressed. Seriously.

This your ability to decieve yourself that you make intelligent posts is quite impressive.

Cc dalaman

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Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by adepeter2027(m): 10:04am On Sep 12
JackBizzle:



I am impressed. Seriously.

This your ability to decieve yourself that you make intelligent posts is quite impressive.

Cc dalaman
You're wicked oooo
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:04am On Sep 12
JackBizzle:



I am impressed. Seriously.

This your ability to decieve yourself that you make intelligent posts is quite impressive.

Cc dalaman

I am not surprised. Seriously!

This your uncanny ability not to see your dumb nature is eerily impressive.

Cc felixomor

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:07am On Sep 12
It's a new day and the hecklers and naysayers for lack of anything to say have begun gathering grin

Even when others are conversing intelligently only they refuse to see this by some strange stroke of luck. cheesy

By their comments ye shall know them grin
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Ranchhoddas(m): 10:07am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:
I need a little favor from you OP

please quote me with the main or real question & the main or real answer to it

Please
Lol
You go wait tire.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:13am On Sep 12
Ranchhoddas:
Lol
You go wait tire.

The person you quoted is obviously smarter than you. He quickly adapted and admitted he did no research as I recommended but also admitted to learning from it.

Your comment to him still shows you have not followed my comments on the thread and my deliberate hints.

Your desperation go soon wear pampers cheesy
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by felixomor: 10:16am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


I am not surprised. Seriously!

This your uncanny ability not to see your dumb nature is eerily impressive.

Cc felixomor

Jumbo dimbo for a reason cheesy

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:21am On Sep 12
felixomor:


Jumbo dimbo for a reason cheesy

You got that right! cheesy

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Tonyosas101(m): 10:23am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


Here is one honest individual! Now bro the question was meant to distract everyone from the main objective and it worked very well. A few people asked for hints towards the answer and the hints I have clearly showed I was not asking for how mankind would be able to create water. At a point i have to say it in clear terms that, that was not the focus of the thread and everyone should look away from that as it was meant to distract from the main purpose" . However right here we still find them talking about the same question which I repeatedly said was a distraction. grin
I'm probably a slow learner cos you still didn't quote me with the question (main objective) & the answer to it
No offence bro & thanks for the replies
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Ranchhoddas(m): 10:23am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


The person you quoted is obviously smarter than you. He quickly adapted and admitted he did no research as I recommended but also admitted to learning from it.

Your comment to him still shows you have not followed my comments on the thread and my deliberate hints.

Your desperation go soon wear pampers cheesy
Gerarahere men.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Ranchhoddas(m): 10:26am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:

I'm probably a slow learner cos you still didn't quote me with the question (main objective) & the answer to it
No offence bro & thanks for the replies


I thought he said you have learnt from it.
Is it not the same thing I've been asking him?
Don't put your hopes up.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:32am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:

I'm probably a slow learner cos you still didn't quote me with the question (main objective) & the answer to it
No offence bro & thanks for the replies



Whatever you thought was a main question in the OP was a distraction as I hinted several times in the thread. However if you carefully go through the thread you will get the direction and understand my final post earlier.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Tonyosas101(m): 10:34am On Sep 12
Ranchhoddas:
I thought he said you have learnt from it.
Is it not the same thing I've been asking him?
Don't put your hopes up.
True, I did learn from his research & I bet you also gained from it as well

What I don't get is the connection between the question, objective & the answer

He could have just post the answer alone as the original post instead
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Tonyosas101(m): 10:39am On Sep 12
butterflylion:


Whatever you thought was a main question in the OP was a distraction as I hinted several times in the thread. However if you carefully go through the thread you will get the direction and understand my final post earlier.

Well!!! you won cos most of us were distracted grin grin

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Ranchhoddas(m): 10:44am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:

True, I did learn from his research & I bet you also gained from it as well

What I don't get is the connection between the question, objective & the answer

He could have just post the answer alone as the original post instead

I did not gain jack. All I saw was a copy and paste description of water and godidit.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by felixomor: 10:55am On Sep 12
Ranchhoddas:
I did not gain jack . Alll I saw was a copy and paste description of water and godidit.

Baskets dont retain water.

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 10:58am On Sep 12
Tonyosas101:


Well!!! you won cos most of us were distracted grin grin

Ahhh finally you see it grin

Despite the number of times I said it was a distraction they all by consensus still refused to understand what "distraction " meant.

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by AgentOfAllah: 10:59am On Sep 12
butterflylion:

Okay now lets look at the reason for my thread. I did ask a specific question regarding how water would be created by man but like i said that was simply a throw off question as i wanted everyone to go back to the beginning as i hinted Bennyann so lets look at the beginning.

To be clear, in discussions that evoke critical thinking, the purpose of questions is to seek/provide clarity, not to throw people off. It's only during a magic trick - where participants are expected to suspend all critical faculties - that a performer may be forgiven for asking "throw off" questions. If I recall correctly though, the purpose of this thread was not to dazzle participants with the magic of equivocation. In fact, you specifically appealed to people's intelligence and critical thinking on several occasions. So, the way I see it, there are three possibilities:

(1) You came up with this poorly conceived excuse of "throw off" as an afterthought, to wriggle yourself out of an equally poorly conceived question, or

(2) You don't understand the import of questions in critical thought processes, or

(3) You deliberately intended to troll people using deception.

Whichever it is, this is solely on you, as it was your responsibility to clarify what the exact purpose of your thread was, but you never did. Instead, you kept making vague remarks like "it's in the beginning", when prodded for clarification. Ergo, I don't think it is fair or honest to blame the people who rightly called you out on your BS, as you are wont to do.

I kept a tab on this thread however, because you promised you'd provide an answer, and I wanted to know if your answer may yet redeem you, and I will come to that immediately. Firstly, I want to quickly point out that ignoring your previous mention was deliberate. It seemed you mistook my persistence on this thread as a desire to partaker in your theist/atheist wankfest (as Sarassin put it). It may have been 2 or 3 years ago, but that's not my style anymore, so please take note.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, since you have provided an "answer" to a question which you admit is a pointless "throw off", there is no longer any need to discuss your followup in context of the question. I however, still wish to take you up on your followup if you are willing. before we proceed, I want to see if we can establish a common ground on the origins of water in the universe. I see that you posted a scientific discussion from the Smithsonian about the origins of water on earth. The first part of this discussion touches upon the origins of water in the universe. Do you agree with that part or not? If not can you please mention, specifically, where your disagreement lies?


butterflylion:

did water send itself here? If it did we should have experienced at least once another asteroid slamming into the earth and enabling us to witness first hand what is assumed to be the origin of water. Would you say that is truly its origin when you have not experienced it and may never do? No wonder science still argues this till today.
As for your question about whether water sent itself here. The answer is a resounding no! It was brought here by gravity. Believe me though, you do not want to witness asteroids or any such sizable cosmic bodies impact the earth first hand. As a direct consequence of impact events, the last terrestrial species that dominated the earth didn't fare very well. Anyway, there is ample evidence that the earth was severally impacted by asteroids. There is also ample evidence that asteroids carry insane quantities of water with them.

2 Likes

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 11:01am On Sep 12
Ranchhoddas:
I did not gain jack. All I saw was a copy and paste description of water and godidit.

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 11:12am On Sep 12
AgentOfAllah:


To be clear, in discussions that evoke critical thinking, the purpose of questions is to seek/provide clarity, not to throw people off. It's only during a magic trick - where participants are expected to suspend all critical faculties - that a performer may be forgiven for asking "throw off" questions. If I recall correctly though, the purpose of this thread was not to dazzle participants with the magic of equivocation. In fact, you specifically appealed to people's intelligence and critical thinking on several occasions. So, the way I see it, there are three possibilities:

(1) You came up with this poorly conceived excuse of "throw off" as an afterthought, to wriggle yourself out of an equally poorly conceived question, or

(2) You don't understand the import of questions in critical thought processes, or

(3) You deliberately intended to troll people using deception.

Whichever it is, this is solely on you, as it was your responsibility to clarify what the exact purpose of your thread was, but you never did. Instead, you kept making vague remarks like "it's in the beginning", when prodded for clarification. Ergo, I don't think it is fair or honest to blame the people who rightly called you out on your BS, as you are wont to do.

I kept a tab on this thread however, because you promised you'd provide an answer, and I wanted to know if your answer may yet redeem you, and I will come to that immediately. Firstly, I want to quickly point out that ignoring your previous mention was deliberate. It seemed you mistook my persistence on this thread as a desire to partaker in your theist/atheist wankfest (as Sarassin put it). It may have been 2 or 3 years ago, but that's not my style anymore, so please take note.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, since you have provided an "answer" to a question which you admit is a pointless "throw off", there is no longer any need to discuss your followup in context of the question. I however, still wish to take you up on your followup if you are willing. before we proceed, I want to see if we can establish a common ground on the origins of water in the universe. I see that you posted a scientific discussion from the Smithsonian about the origins of water on earth. The first part of this discussion touches upon the origins of water in the universe. Do you agree with that part or not? If not can you please mention, specifically, where your disagreement lies?



As for your question about whether water sent itself here. The answer is a resounding no! It was brought here by gravity. Believe me though, you do not want to witness asteroids or any such sizable cosmic bodies impact the earth first hand. As a direct consequence of impact events, the last terrestrial species that dominated the earth didn't fare very well. Anyway, there is ample evidence that the earth was severally impacted by asteroids. There is also ample evidence that asteroids carry insane quantities of water with them.


I will ignore your start off rambling as those are your thought projections as against my deliberate actions prior to writing the OP and dropping the thread.

So you say asteroids came to earth via gravity? Can you tell me what on earth is standing in the way of this phenomenon repeating itself?

Back to your talk about dinosaurs and how they got wiped off by some stroke of luck laser guided asteroid that pinpointed their location how come we are yet to experience no such fluke stroke of luck again?

My question wasn't pointless. The point was for you and everyone else to carry out research and you would admit I repeatedly said that throughout the thread.

From your link the first known asteroid impact was 2 billion years ago. The earth is 4.5billion years old and evolution is said to have begun about 4billion years ago.

Looking at these dates and also following the train of thought that all life evolved from water, how come the probable asteroid that brought water to earth happened 2 billion years ago while evolution began 4 billion years ago?

Can you explain this discrepancy? Did life on earth now evolve from something else first before water came to the scene?

I will follow this step by step with you but kindly address the above. Maybe I have my dates wrong grin

Also the thing about water is that it has a lot of things which push coincidence a bit too far.

This is odd because most liquids become denser when they freeze. Water, however, expands as it changes to ice. And the result? When lakes freeze, ice does not gather at the bottom, but at the top, trapping a layer of warmer water underneath. This is a very happy "fluke" of nature because it gives fish and other living things a chance to survive.

How come this coincidental yet deliberately purposeful fluke? grin

Did water also evolve in order to suit life on earth?
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by Ranchhoddas(m): 11:32am On Sep 12
felixomor:


Baskets dont retain water.
Baskets still have a function. Can't say the same for Ms.

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 11:59am On Sep 12
While waiting for your response AgentOfAllah I would also require your response to this.

I do know that all uncontrolled objects coming in from outer space to the earth such as meteors, asteroids, debris etc experience aerodynamic heating from the karman line which is 330,000 feet above sea level and is the boundary between our atmosphere and outer space and since the earths atmospheric conditions were not definitely what we have today 4.5 billion years ago, how did the ice on this asteroid make it through when even rocks (which are not aerodynamic in nature) get broken into pieces when in such a situation? Except it was also by some fluke of luck that an aerodynamic asteroid was the vehicle that brought this ice in grin

I can itemise all the strokes of luck we have identified so far if you like cheesy
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 12:30pm On Sep 12
Also AgentOfAllah since science arguably claims asteroids brought water to the earth and since they also claim that since life began in this alien water brought in from these asteroids where then did the asteroids bring the ice from? grin

Surely these asteroids would have delivered this same water to other planets and this same water would have also contained the origins of evolutionary life. In fact scientists claim that water is found in 23 places in our solar system. Namely:

Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede, Callisto, Ceres, Mars, Dione, Pluto, Charon, Titan, Mimas, Triton, Titania, Oberon, Umbriel, Tethys, Rhea, Lapetus, The Kuiper Belt, Mercury, The moon, Neptune, Uranus


Let's narrow it down to the moon which scientists also say has water and I believe these asteroids also brought water to the moon and this water contained the origins of evolutionary life same as earth so how is it that the moon which is 4.47 billion years old has no life on it and the earth which is 4.5 billion years old has complete and well balanced life on it? grin

I am just thinking out loud cheesy
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by butterflylion: 12:32pm On Sep 12
Jackbizzle aka jumbo dumbo stop peeking and apply the little brain power you have and say something sensible. cheesy

1 Like

Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by JackBizzle: 12:44pm On Sep 12
butterflylion:



I will ignore your start off rambling as those are your thought projections as against my deliberate actions prior to writing the OP and dropping the thread.

So you say asteroids came to earth via gravity? Can you tell me what on earth is standing in the way of this phenomenon repeating itself?

Back to your talk about dinosaurs and how they got wiped off by some stroke of luck laser guided asteroid that pinpointed their location how come we are yet to experience no such fluke stroke of luck again?

My question wasn't pointless. The point was for you and everyone else to carry out research and you would admit I repeatedly said that throughout the thread.

From your link the first known asteroid impact was 2 billion years ago. The earth is 4.5billion years old and evolution is said to have begun about 4billion years ago.

Looking at these dates and also following the train of thought that all life evolved from water, how come the probable asteroid that brought water to earth happened 2 billion years ago while evolution began 4 billion years ago?

Can you explain this discrepancy? Did life on earth now evolve from something else first before water came to the scene?

I will follow this step by step with you but kindly address the above. Maybe I have my dates wrong grin

Also the thing about water is that it has a lot of things which push coincidence a bit too far.

This is odd because most liquids become denser when they freeze. Water, however, expands as it changes to ice. And the result? When lakes freeze, ice does not gather at the bottom, but at the top, trapping a layer of warmer water underneath. This is a very happy "fluke" of nature because it gives fish and other living things a chance to survive.

How come this coincidental yet deliberately purposeful fluke? grin

Did water also evolve in order to suit life on earth?


Bros. I gats agree with you. What are asteroids wating for?

Asteroids blew up most of the earth once thousands of years ago.....so wetin com happen?
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by JackBizzle: 12:44pm On Sep 12
butterflylion:
Jackbizzle aka jumbo dumbo stop peeking and apply the little brain power you have and say something sensible. cheesy

Jack Dumbo reporting for duty sir.
Re: A Thread For The Intelligent. Let's Put Critical Thought To Work by felixomor: 12:50pm On Sep 12
Ranchhoddas:
Baskets still have a function. Can't say the same for Ms.
Yeah.baskets have Functions other than intellectual talk. cheesy

1 Like

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