patches689:


Shilka is obsolete rubbish that is only a threat to attack helicopters

Helicopter is four times faster than Guided bombs. Fool

NATO and other military world power countries, including Poland, India and Russia the mighty, all still use Shilka today 2014.

Anything South Africa does not have is 'Not Good' including Satellites and amphibious armoured vehicles. Thou art a mumu
.

patches689:


Nope, you said you would post your "uniform" and "gun"

So do it.

Lol (apparently PMC's have uniforms these days, and they issue accountants guns)

And you arent in the US .mil so the rest of your post is a waste of data

I never said I am a soldier, I always say I am a civilian.

I just proved to you that in America, any BSc holder can be a soldier, even if he has BSc Agriculture.

Yes PMC wear uniform in red zones and duty zones, they are like security guards in military zone or like mercenaries.

I am not an accountant in my present PMC job, I am in research team for field operations.

You think PMCs go to war wearing suit and tie, or T-shirt and boxer shorts ?

Post ATR-42 Radar range from your own source and I will post my handgun and camo.

Not only you can make demands, I can too, so I am making my own demand. Simple.

PHOTO: PMC WITH UNIFORM IN IRAQ, INCLUDING CAMO

patches689:


Who said it is only a trainer?

Manufacturer specs.

Gripen 2 seater is trainer version, a 12 year old kid knows that.

It does nothing more than the 1 seater except extra seat for student-instructor training.

I too can start story here that F-7 jet 2 seater version is a miraculous ISTAR version. Get it?

patches689:


hahahahahahahahahahah

South Africa, judge for yourself

Yes brother, we all judge this South African army, thanks bro

.

@overhypedsteve,thatssounds quite interesting,i have personnally read quite a number of books on world politics and its impact on new world,i've read works on:
* rise and fall of the islamic emirates

* the rise,fall and rise again of china
* america's foreign policy and its impact on world geopolitics
* the rise of europe
* america and the new world order
* forces of imperialism:the african dilemma
* clash of civilization: the fall of the soviet
.
i'm an avid reader of historical,political intricacies of our world.i've always loved the political aspects and historical motivations of the great wars,the kingdoms that rose and fell throughout the centuries.it would be interesting if you find time to post those interesting articles once in a while.i read one publication written by PW Botha about the mentality and socio-economic hierachy of the black race,its a very sad speech,botha was the man who made me realize that the white man{west} was a great monster,botha spoke like a monster,you could look it up

EVarn:
@overhypedsteve,thatssounds quite interesting,i have personnally read quite a number of books on world politics and its impact on new world,i've read works on:
* rise and fall of the islamic emirates

* the rise,fall and rise again of china
* america's foreign policy and its impact on world geopolitics
* the rise of europe
* america and the new world order
* forces of imperialism:the african dilemma
* clash of civilization: the fall of the soviet
.
i'm an avid reader of historical,political intricacies of our world.i've always loved the political aspects and historical motivations of the great wars,the kingdoms that rose and fell throughout the centuries.it would be interesting if you find time to post those interesting articles once in a while.i read one publication written by PW Botha about the mentality and socio-economic hierachy of the black race,its a very sad speech,botha was the man who made me realize that the white man{west} was a great monster,botha spoke like a monster,you could look it up

lol. make henry catch u derailing first. I ll create a new thread for this sort of discussions soon. I ve a certain book i ll recommend for you that will give you a practical idea about what the nigerian foreign policy looked like during the apartheid and Angola crisis and how America due to its mishandling of the Angola crisis gave Nigeria the opportunity to play in the center place. This were the exact words of major General Joseph Garba. " Nigeria should be grateful to the united states. Not in the wat Americans expect or particularly like; not in any of the ways nigerians would be quick to rightly protest. But in a way unexpected, unpredictable, and surely regretted by some Americans, including the administration of Gerald ford . For it was the united states that, in its misunderstanding and mishandling of the crisis of the imminent Angola independence, handed Nigeria the foreign policy issue that wouldn catapult her to the center stage and not just Africa's stage...producing for Angola and Africa precisely the government that Americans opposed." a meeting was held at Luanda, Angola between a nigerian delegation led by lt.-colonel General olusegun obasanjo and an Angolan side by president Aghostino Neto on Thursday,5 February,1976 excerpts from an issue of common interest. A discussion between the Angolan defence minister and the Nigerian chief of staff supreme headquaters (OBJ)
chief of staff as for the request for the Nigerian troops, we are closely watching the situation. We believe that in whatever we do, we should perform very well in areas we take on. Our assessment is that, the battle for the liberation of Angola, it will be fought on (1) the battle ground, (2) the diplomatic front and (3) the political side to it , to be fought outside and an Economic aspect to it. We believe that the area which we would handle is the diplomatic side, especially in Africa. We will leave no stone unturned. Unless it is absolutely necessary, nigerian troops for combat should be kept in strategic reserve. Once we re involved it will reduce our effectiveness in the diplomatic arena.
Minister of defence( Angolan. Written as interpreted by the interpreter)- i want clarifications concerning the transportation of the MiGs.
chief of staff supreme headquaters (OBJ): they have to be flown in by our pilots if yours are engaged in other things. I can even go today with your pilots if they are ready to fly them in.
minister of defence (angola)as regards the C130 aircraft, i want to know whether you looked for the sales of new ones or the used ones.
Chief of staff (OBJ) i looked into the purchase of new ones and if the Americans had any inkling that they were coming here they would stop the sale but if you want us to look into second handed ones we will do so.
minister of defence( Angola) this matter is extremely urgent to us. It is not only militarily but also for the question of supply which has to be done by air...
Nigeria's efforts in the liberation of Angola is one of the most important and significant achievements of nigerians foreign policy in the African continent.

EVarn:

(1)we spend a whole fhucking lot of money in training troops,especially since the boko haram saga
.
(2)an average nigerian soldier spends a maximum of one year in training.except he/she is in a special unit/task force,then he/she would spend another 18 months in advanced training{with constant retraining}
.
(3)our training facilities are in excellent conditions,infact they are currently being upgraded.new trainer aircrafts,ships,gunboats,and other training facilities are being purchased.
.
(4)the training system of the nigerian army is top grade.it can be seen through our SBS,STF,JTF,and other spec-ops units,that we have a top notch training system.
.
(5)rotation of force is effective in the nigerian military
.
now tell me about the SANDF.

Numbers and Names please.

agaugust:


You don't need CRAM to sh.oot down a snail slow bomb.

Guided bombs are 20 times slower than missiles.

Shilka radar will scan-track-target a guided bomb and accurately direct 4-barrel cannon fire to blew it into pieces 3km away !

SANDF has no air to ground missile. Unfreeze one frozen Gripen jet, sell it, and but Maverick air to ground missile , SANDF is cash-broke
.

Tell us about the radar on Shilka then.

Again explain to us the process of shooting down a guided bomb. From detection too shoot down.

agaugust:


Manufacturer specs.

Gripen 2 seater is trainer version, a 12 year old kid knows that.

It does nothing more than the 1 seater except extra seat for student-instructor training.

I too can start story here that F-7 jet 2 seater version is a miraculous ISTAR version. Get it?

It isn't a trainer version.

The pilot or navigator in the back seat can control stand-off weapons, with data link control UAV(s) or UCAV(s). He can also control or monitor the aircraft's advanced systems from sensors to EW equipment.

agaugust:


Yes brother, we all judge this South African army, thanks bro

.

Empty and shallow.

1. Cause he might be a section commander yelling commands to his troops.

2. He might be getting instructions.

He carries more ammo than 3 Nigerian soldiers.

MikeCZAR:
Numbers and Names please.

what name and number are you asking for again?

EVarn:
what name and number are you asking for again?

Numbers and Names.

Answer my questions with specific numbers and names.

@overhypedsteve,thats good.did you study political science or foreign relations?.whats the name of the book?

MikeCZAR:
Numbers and Names.
Answer my questions with specific numbers and names.

dont be ridiculous!,how is anybody supposed to know how many times the NA rotate troops{especially in this time of war},or measure the trainining system of an army,on what scale?

EVarn:
@overhypedsteve,thats good.did you study political science or foreign relations?.whats the name of the book?

i ve recommended that book several times here. "Diplomatic soldiering" written by the late General Joseph Garba. Nigeria's first soldier diplomat to rise to the position of president UN security council.

agaugust:


[size=16pt]
Hey you calling me an Ape ? All because I defeated you in military argument and I wrecked your Soweto African Air Force SAAF ?

Wow ! Butt-Hurt now resorts to racist remarks on a black man, well I know you are not black, so you call us Ape.

Your own source CLEARLY says Gripen Jet did less than half of ONLY RECONNAISSANCE in Libya, NOT any ISTAR !

I was just doing you a favour by saying 1 hour, your own source says Gripen jet loiter time in Recce in Libya was only 40 minutes in the air !

NATO did real ISTAR in Libya with NATO dedicated ISTAR aircraft E-3 AWACS flying 24 hours a day and Sweden sent SAAB 340 AWACS !

Any jet fighter with Reconnaissance pods can do Recce ! Gripen Recce is NOT different from an F-7PG jet equipped with Recce pods

South African air force has ZERO ISTAR capability in year 2014 ! NAF is your supreme ISTAR master !
.[/size]

first, i called you an ape because you are behaving like one, not because you are black.

second, i didnt say the grip was the only recce platform deployed

third, f-7 is no where near the same leauge - thats why your airforce needs to buy scorpion jets

agaugust:


You don't need CRAM to sh.oot down a snail slow bomb.

Guided bombs are 20 times slower than missiles.

Shilka radar will scan-track-target a guided bomb and accurately direct 4-barrel cannon fire to blew it into pieces 3km away !

SANDF has no air to ground missile. Unfreeze one frozen Gripen jet, sell it, and but Maverick air to ground missile , SANDF is cash-broke
.

- if you dont need CRAM to sh00t down missiles, why then was CRAM invented specifically to shoot down missiles?
- Guided bombs including the GBU family can travel at speeds up to mach 1,2 (i am busy working out the terminal velocity for the GBU-12 as we speak)
- Shilka is not accurate enough to engage such a small target or pic it up on Radar, that is why Russia developed the Pantsyr system
- SANDF just had its budget increased by a couple of billion

agaugust:


Libya was first attacked in SEAD with over 100 units of Tomahawk missiles, not guided bombs, fool !!!

NATO will use cruise missiles and anti-radar/radiation missiles to first wipe out all your air defences before NATO jets go in with bombs.

By the time NATO jets fly in with bombs, your air defense weapons are already degraded to almost zero level effect.


Guide bombs are big, they are bigger than a human being ! Shilka radar will track it and the AAA guns will b.low it to pieces

A guided bomb has no engine like a missile or rocket, it runs on a simple low power battery ! It glides by fins through the air with free fall speed of gravity about average 85 km/hr, falling slowly like a snail, it does not shoot forward like a missile , you must be damn illiterate !

"When a plane drops a smart bomb, the bomb becomes a particularly heavy glider. It doesn't have any propulsion system of its own, like a missile does , but it does have forward velocity (by virtue of being dropped from a speeding plane). It also has flight fins that generate lift and stabilize its flight path." http://science.howstuffworks.com/smart-bomb.htm

How many science lessons will Nigerians have to teach you daily? Olodo

Mach 1.3 is missile speed !!!! Fool !!!

Show me a source with speed of SAAF Paveway Guided Bomb !!! Fool

The video below proves that guided bombs are slow air/gravity snail-speed, while air to ground missiles are rocket engine super-speed.

#All South Africans Are Born Olodos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26XYeQK1lm4
.

Nope, SEAD is used against legitimate anti-air defences, like SAM's

Shilka and AAA are JDAM food

Auguggugug, again, you speak of science but you fail to understand that when a plane drops a bomb at mach 1,2 the bomb is moving at mach 1,2... there is this thing called inertia, you should learn about it.

Dont talk to us about science when you still try to tell us that air at high altitude is more dense than at low altitude, clown

agaugust:



Helicopter is four times faster than Guided bombs. Fool

NATO and other military world power countries, including Poland, India and Russia the mighty, all still use Shilka today 2014.

Anything South Africa does not have is 'Not Good' including Satellites and amphibious armoured vehicles. Thou art a mumu
.

SPAAG is an obsolete concept, proven by the fact that the US, UK, France and Germany all abandoned it in the 1960's

You have yet to show us any proof that a JDAM falls at only 85km/h.... and explain how a bomb being dropped at mach 1,2 is immune to the forces of inertia and somehow slows down from 1 481.76km/h to 85km/h while falling from 30 000ft

This is gunna be good

agaugust:


I never said I am a soldier, I always say I am a civilian.

I just proved to you that in America, any BSc holder can be a soldier, even if he has BSc Agriculture.

Yes PMC wear uniform in red zones and duty zones, they are like security guards in military zone or like mercenaries.

I am not an accountant in my present PMC job, I am in research team for field operations.

You think PMCs go to war wearing suit and tie, or T-shirt and boxer shorts ?

Post ATR-42 Radar range from your own source and I will post my handgun and camo.

Not only you can make demands, I can too, so I am making my own demand. Simple.

PHOTO: PMC WITH UNIFORM IN IRAQ, INCLUDING CAMO

According to the manufacturer, its 120nm which is around 220km range
http://www.aleniana.com/documents/8005904/17761599/factsheet_ATR_42_MP.pdf

Only the Italian ATR-42 has a 330km radar range - because it is different to other ATR's
http://www.casr.ca/id-fwsar-italy-2.htm

Feel free to post your "uniform" and "gun"

agaugust:


Yes brother, we all judge this South African army, thanks bro

.

0/10, not even worth responding to

agaugust:


Yes brother, we all judge this South African army, thanks bro

.

Your analysis from that pic can clearly be seen as a proof of someone who knows nothing about military. A soldier cannot as always remain glued towards the target without taking a quick snap to the sides in order to inspect the surroundings. This happens particularly to section leaders who give orders and consistently have to take track of every soldier on her or his section. Every soldier in turn will also have to take quick snap to ensure that he is still on the right track of advance with fellow soldiers on a battalion attack. How will you be able to take track of fellow soldiers when you don't know your position in relation to other soldiers at any point in time? losing a track in war zone happens to soldiers who remain glued to the target without looking at the line of attack/defence.

For instance, If you belong to company Alpha, it is important to remain on track with that company when it is the turn of another company (Bravo) to attack. When the turn comes to another company, say Charlie, it is important to look around patiently awaiting for your turn of advancing offensive to come. A soldier is not a horse pulling the cart, he has to always snap to the sides without losing focus to ensure safety of other comrades.

overhypedsteve:
i ve recommended that book several times here. "Diplomatic soldiering" written by the late General Joseph Garba. Nigeria's first soldier diplomat to rise to the position of president UN security council.

i'll check it out one of these days.

MikeCZAR:
It isn't a trainer version.

The pilot or navigator in the back seat can control stand-off weapons, with data link control UAV(s) or UCAV(s). He can also control or monitor the aircraft's advanced systems from sensors to EW equipment.

Show us photo of the fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors and EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of the 2 seater Gripen

Then if 2 seater Gripen trainer version is the fake ISTAR version, it means all the real combat Gripen single seaters are NOT capable of ISTAR.

Anyway, you are telling lies, so.....


Show us photo of your fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors-EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of 2 seater Gripen
.

agaugust:


Show us photo of the fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors and EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of the 2 seater Gripen

Then if 2 seater Gripen trainer version is the fake ISTAR version, it means all the real combat Gripen single seaters are NOT capable of ISTAR.

Anyway, you are telling lies, so.....


Show us photo of your fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors-EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of 2 seater Gripen
.

Show us a picture of your uniform and gun first

agaugust:


Show us photo of the fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors and EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of the 2 seater Gripen

Then if 2 seater Gripen trainer version is the fake ISTAR version, it means all the real combat Gripen single seaters are NOT capable of ISTAR.

Anyway, you are telling lies, so.....


Show us photo of your fake imaginary 'advanced system sensors-EW equipment' inside the back trainers seat of 2 seater Gripen
.

No one said the Gripen D is a ISTAR version of the jet.

The Gripen is a multi-role or should I say swing-role jet. It can perform a wide range of missions, from Close air combat, counter air, combat air patrol, interdiction to interception t mention a few.

I'll post a pictures of both the Litening III pod and the DJRP.


In the meantime explain to us, what is ISTAR?

patches689:


According to the manufacturer, its 120nm which is around 220km range
http://www.aleniana.com/documents/8005904/17761599/factsheet_ATR_42_MP.pdf

Only the Italian ATR-42 has a 330km radar range - because it is different to other ATR's
http://www.casr.ca/id-fwsar-italy-2.htm

Feel free to post your "uniform" and "gun"

Out ranged by the SAAF Super Lynx helicopter.

EVarn:
dont be ridiculous!,how is anybody supposed to know how many times the NA rotate troops{especially in this time of war},or measure the trainining system of an army,on what scale?

So how are going to make claims if you don't know the real numbers and names?

Meaning that was nothing but your opinion, which should be disregarded in this debate.

MikeCZAR:
So how are going to make claims if you don't know the real numbers and names?
Meaning that was nothing but your opinion, which should be disregarded in this debate.

M.U.M.U ! !
those werent just my opinions,they are facts,that it isnt specific doesnt make its false.even the chief of army staff{COAS} would be hard pressed to know how many times he had ordered tactical rotation of troops{until he checks the archives},and as it is,we arent privy to military documents,are we?,incase you have forgotten,we are fighting a war,any field commander could have issued an EFO{Emergency Field Order}.

EVarn

Henry120's

Troop101:
EVarn

^^and what's that supposed to mean?