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Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd - Pets (11) - Nairaland

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Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Jungpablo: 1:42pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
'Higher chances' means there is still some chance of a dog choking on raw bones, right?

And I disagree that the 'only reason' is the disease...what about nutritional deficiencies. Just like humans, dogs also need a balanced diet...they have adapted their dietary requirements over thousands of years of living with humans. They need a diet containing carbohydrates, proteins, fats & oils, vitamins, minerals and of course water, all in the right proportion and quantity.


since people are contributing let me add the little I know too grin firstly low carb and high fat diet is good for dog since fat can be used as a source of energy through ketogenesis while excess carbs will be stored as fat and in raw feeding there is proportion meat: bone: organs people like oluomoadebayo can help since he is a raw feeder and I talked with a breeder in the US some time ago and she is into Raw 100% and she named numerous health benefits like good dental health etc(i can't really remember the rest at the moment) . organs actually contain all the necessary vitamins needed for proper growth by dog. although raw feed contains more proteins but fat, carbohydrates and the rest are present. like eveezy pointed out raw bones is actually safer for dogs in terms of splinting and the rest although chances of contacting diseases and infections such as worms is usually higher especially in younger dogs which is why it is important to always be up to date with yur pet vaccinations schedule and give meat that are disease free and don't give foetus, so far I haven't experience any problem from feeding raw even with little puppies and honestly I would have stuck to raw full time if not that it is usually more expensive. the point is give yur dog good meat and yu will hardly have a problem caused by meat consumption. as for the bones it is safer to give bones after yur dog has finished his meal when yu give bones to a hungry dog, they tend to rush it probably swallow and choke on it and maybe die from bone stuck in the oesophagus or cause injury to the buccal cavity. personally I give bones after meal so my dog can use it to while away the time and lastly chicken legs is actually good for dogs especially large breeds since it contains chrondointin which is important especially for hips and elbow joints to prevent hip and elbow dysplasia. so in conclusion never give a bone to a healthy dog. don't mind any error e no easy to type Abeg

2 Likes

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 1:47pm On May 30, 2018
do u buy life chicken or chicken parts from d market??
if life,then u sud be able to tell if its sick or nt.BT if its chicken parts u buy in d market,my advice is DAT u cook it well and debone before u serve becos no one knows d state of d chicken before being slaughtered.




I don't know any solution used in treating d raw meat BT what I do is DAT I wash it in salt water then rinse in clean water before I serve

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 3:05pm On May 30, 2018
[quote author=agboedeh post=68017590][/quote]

As a medic, I think I can confidently say this post is anything but from a trust worthy source. Anyone who says 'bones can scrub off gingivitis' knows nothing about 'gingivitis'.

And what sort of professional site would post with those fonts...

Can we have the link to that web page

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 4:09pm On May 30, 2018
1. 'Low carb and high fat diet is good for dog?' I believe you meant the reverse.

2. Breeders are not who you should be talking to about animal/dog nutrition...many of them don't even know the contents of dry dog food or can food.

3. 'Organs contain all the necessary vitamins'...In the right amounts? Surely even wild dogs do eat vegetables, grasses and fruits here and there to get more vitamins and minerals. They are not obligate carnivores you know...

4. The fact that raw bones are 'safer' doesn't make them completely safe. Just means raw is safer than cooked, but still has some potential risk.

5. How do you know meat that is disease free? It's not written on them now, is it? Even if you produce the meat yourself, it still does not guarantee 'disease free'...

6. The fact that you have not experienced any problem from feeding raw, does not make it safe. When we talk about risk, we are talking about chances or probability, not guarantees.

7. We often have this impression, albeit wrongly, that if only we can afford it, our dogs just need a 100% meat diet, served with water of course. That is so not true.

8. 'Chicken leg is good because it contains chrondroitin' ...question is are there no safer alternatives? Is chicken leg the only source of chondroitin in Nigeria?

9. 'Never give a bone to a healthy dog?' ...Now you just lost me with this one.

Jungpablo:



since people are contributing let me add the little I know too grin firstly low carb and high fat diet is good for dog since fat can be used as a source of energy through ketogenesis while excess carbs will be stored as fat and in raw feeding there is proportion meat: bone: organs people like oluomoadebayo can help since he is a raw feeder and I talked with a breeder in the US some time ago and she is into Raw 100% and she named numerous health benefits like good dental health etc(i can't really remember the rest at the moment) . organs actually contain all the necessary vitamins needed for proper growth by dog. although raw feed contains more proteins but fat, carbohydrates and the rest are present. like eveezy pointed out raw bones is actually safer for dogs in terms of splinting and the rest although chances of contacting diseases and infections such as worms is usually higher especially in younger dogs which is why it is important to always be up to date with yur pet vaccinations schedule and give meat that are disease free and don't give foetus, so far I haven't experience any problem from feeding raw even with little puppies and honestly I would have stuck to raw full time if not that it is usually more expensive. the point is give yur dog good meat and yu will hardly have a problem caused by meat consumption. as for the bones it is safer to give bones after yur dog has finished his meal when yu give bones to a hungry dog, they tend to rush it probably swallow and choke on it and maybe die from bone stuck in the oesophagus or cause injury to the buccal cavity. personally I give bones after meal so my dog can use it to while away the time and lastly chicken legs is actually good for dogs especially large breeds since it contains chrondointin which is important especially for hips and elbow joints to prevent hip and elbow dysplasia. so in conclusion never give a bone to a healthy dog. don't mind any error e no easy to type Abeg

5 Likes

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 4:29pm On May 30, 2018
There is no way of telling for sure if a bird has a disease just by looking at it, dead or alive...just like saying one can tell if a human has typhoid or HIV just by looking at the person, even a medical doctor can't...well maybe a native doctor or spiritual pastor can, as they often claim, but I'm sure your not gonna go to that extent so you can feed raw.

The best thing to do is just to cook...simple as that.
agboedeh:

do u buy life chicken or chicken parts from d market??
if life,then u sud be able to tell if its sick or nt.BT if its chicken parts u buy in d market,my advice is DAT u cook it well and debone before u serve becos no one knows d state of d chicken before being slaughtered.




I don't know any solution used in treating d raw meat BT what I do is DAT I wash it in salt water then rinse in clean water before I serve

2 Likes

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by durubrian(m): 4:42pm On May 30, 2018
contributions here and there...

I don't intentionally feed raw, although my dog (Bruno) once caught a bird and ate it raw (with the feathers).

lately I've been feeding them goat meat, I noticed they prefer it to any other kinda meat, I get the meat, organs (including brains) from a reliable source (most times it is been killed in my presence), then I microwave (with the blood and everything) for few minutes and feed them( the microwaving kills both pathogenic and non pathogenic microbes) .

they eat this everyday with white rice, sweet potato , noodles, canned/dry food or even eba/fufu (yes, my dogs eat eba in small quantity)...

when you say raw feeding, it should only be done using treated meat not those dirty meat we have in the market, but if you're willing to take the risk and harm your dog, you can feed raw chicken wings et al.

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Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 4:51pm On May 30, 2018
There is nothing wrong in feeding your dog EBA, it's a very good source of carbohydrate. As long as it's balanced with other nutrients as you've been doing, you have no problem...
durubrian:
contributions here and there...

I don't intentionally feed raw, although my dog (Bruno) once caught a bird and ate it raw (with the feathers).

lately I've been feeding them goat meat, I noticed they prefer it to any other kinda meat, I get the meat, organs (including brains) from a reliable source (most times it is been killed in my presence), then I microwave (with the blood and everything) for few minutes and feed them( the microwaving kills both pathogenic and non pathogenic microbes) .

they eat this everyday with white rice, sweet potato , noodles, canned/dry food or even eba/fufu (yes, my dogs eat eba in small quantity)...

when you see raw feeding should only be done using treated meat not those dirty meat we have in the market, but if you're willing to take the risk and harm your dog, you can feed raw chicken wings et al.

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by durubrian(m): 4:59pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
There is nothing wrong in feeding your dog EBA, it's a very good source of carbohydrate. As long as it's balanced with other nutrients as you've been doing, you have no problem...

some people are ignorant of this. they feel it's wrong to feed a dog eba.

I make a special soup for them which I mix with the eba, rice, potato or dry food, I use goat brains, a little red oil,a little animal fat from the goat and any all kinds of vegetables I can lay my hands on (ugu, carrot, water leaf, etc)

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 5:33pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:


As a medic, I think I can confidently say this post is anything but from a trust worthy source. Anyone who says 'bones can scrub off gingivitis' knows nothing about 'gingivitis'.

And what sort of professional site would post with those fonts...

Can we have the link to that web page
I don't think what u use to identify a professional site is its fonts.secondly,I don't know much about gingivitis so I cant argue about DAT.BT since I read that post,watched so many educational videos about raw chicken for dogs,seen two licenced vet who told me raw chicken ain't harmful and also have been giving my dog for some time now and he has nt had any problem, I can say DAT raw chicken is a good source of protein for dogs.people may agree while some may disagree but d main thing is DAT u must be comfortable with what u feed ur dog.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 5:43pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
There is no way of telling for sure if a bird has a disease just by looking at it, dead or alive...just like saying one can tell if a human has typhoid or HIV just by looking at the person, even a medical doctor can't...well maybe a native doctor or spiritual pastor can, as they often claim, but I'm sure your not gonna go to that extent so you can feed raw.

The best thing to do is just to cook...simple as that.
well u can always know if a chicken is sick becos its behavior starts to change,d colour of d feces starts to change and even just by looking at it for sometime u will surely know there is something wrong.chicken are nt human.the way they react to diseases are different.BT as I said earlier,feed ur dog what u are comfortable with.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 6:11pm On May 30, 2018
durubrian:


some people are ignorant of this. they feel it's wrong to feed a dog eba.

I make a special soup for them which I mix with the eba, rice, potato or dry food, I use goat brains, a little red oil,a little animal fat from the goat and any all kinds of vegetables I can lay my hands on (ugu, carrot, water leaf, etc)
You are doing very well...what many of us fail to realize is that these commercial dog foods, canned or dry, we give to our dogs regularly with great results do not contain only meat...they also contain ingredients like corn, soya, grains, vegetables, fruits, etc, etc. Its all about getting the right balance @ the most cost effective price.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 6:19pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:

I don't think what u use to identify a professional site is its fonts.secondly,I don't know much about gingivitis so I cant argue about DAT.BT since I read that post,watched so many educational videos about raw chicken for dogs,seen two licenced vet who told me raw chicken ain't harmful and also have been giving my dog for some time now and he has nt had any problem, I can say DAT raw chicken is a good source of protein for dogs.people may agree while some may disagree but d main thing is DAT u must be comfortable with what u feed ur dog.
Fonts and the general look of a website can definitely act as one of the indicators of a professional website. That website looks more like someone's personal blog.

Nobody is saying raw chicken is not a good source of protein, in fact it's an excellent source I must say, and it also has other benefits as well, but why would I want to put my dog at risk, even the slightest risk, when there are alternatives with similar benefits but without the risks...makes no sense to me!
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 6:30pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:
well u can always know if a chicken is sick becos its behavior starts to change,d colour of d feces starts to change and even just by looking at it for sometime u will surely know there is something wrong.chicken are nt human.the way they react to diseases are different.BT as I said earlier,feed ur dog what u are comfortable with.
I hope you know that symptoms don't just appear immediately an infection occurs. There is something we call incubation period, which is the time interval from the moment infection occurs to the moment symptoms start to appear. This could sometimes last for days, weeks or months depending on the disease, and it happens even in animals. Vets in the house can confirm this.

So how can you tell if an infected chicken in incubation period is actually infected?

Like I said, cooking is the safest option.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 6:42pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
Fonts and the general look of a website can definitely act as one of the indicators of a professional website. That website looks more like someone's personal blog.

Nobody is saying raw chicken is not a good source of protein, in fact it's an excellent source I must say, and it also has other benefits as well, but would I want to put my dog at risk, even the slightest risk, when there are alternatives with similar benefits but without the risks...makes no sense to me!
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 6:52pm On May 30, 2018
if u say u don't want to have d slightest risk then no one should feed their dogs canned and processed food cos they contain chemicals right.you can Neva be 100% safe and dats y I said its safe to feed ur dog raw chicken PROVIDED U KNOW THE SOURCE.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 7:03pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:
if u say u don't want to have d slightest risk then no one should feed their dogs canned and processed food cos they contain chemicals right.you can Neva be 100% safe and dats y I said its safe to feed ur dog raw chicken PROVIDED U KNOW THE SOURCE.
Which chemicals are you talking about? Can you name just 1 or 2 and tell us how they harm our dogs? Please say what you are sure of and not hearsay! We are talking about risk of transmission of diseases and harm from bones, and you're bringing up chemicals. Don't even get me started on 'chemicals' that could be found in your raw chicken o, even if you reared the chicken yourself...
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 7:08pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
Fonts and the general look of a website can definitely act as one of the indicators of a professional website. That website looks more like someone's personal blog.

Nobody is saying raw chicken is not a good source of protein, in fact it's an excellent source I must say, and it also has other benefits as well, but why would I want to put my dog at risk, even the slightest risk, when there are alternatives with similar benefits but without the risks...makes no sense to me!
when u say u don't want even d slightest risk then u also mean DAT we shouldn't feed our dog canned and processed food because of d chemicals used in preserving it.Nothing is wrong in feeding dogs raw chicken provided u know how well d chicken is being reared.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 7:12pm On May 30, 2018
See my response above!
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 7:17pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:

when u say u don't want even d slightest risk then u also mean DAT we shouldn't feed our dog canned and processed food because of d chemicals used in preserving it.Nothing is wrong in feeding dogs raw chicken provided u know how well d chicken is being reared.





By the way, canned dog food is not preserved with 'chemicals' like most of us believe, but by sterilization through heating...just so you know
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Eveezy(m): 7:20pm On May 30, 2018
Infections: it's safer to boil meat cos of infections.
Choking: raw diets are better Dan wen boiled
Balanced diet: comparing raw and boiled meat, raw is better. Only if u don't give ur dog anyoda thing.

I got advice from a few vets about d dangers of raw feeding, truth is that there is actually high risk, to avoid risks, it's safer u boil.

If u re sure of us source ND d meat is properly preserved ND nt exposed, feed raw. My dogs go crazy over raw
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 7:34pm On May 30, 2018
You can never be too sure of your source when even your source cannot be 100% sure that the meat is free of any pathogens...think 'incubation period.'

Even if you reared the chicken yourself and noticed no symptom of disease before killing the chicken, that does not mean the chicken was free of all potentially harmful pathogens or parasites...hence safer to cook. That's just my point.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 7:41pm On May 30, 2018
And when it comes to the nutritional value of raw and cooked, pound for pound the difference in terms of results we get from our dogs is quite negligible and unnoticed... so why do raw, well apart from saving some time and resources of course, when you can get same result with cooked but without those risks.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 7:51pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
Which chemicals are you talking about? Can you name just 1 or 2 and tell us how they harm our dogs? Please say what you are sure of and not hearsay! We are talking about risk of transmission of diseases and harm from bones, and you're bringing up chemicals. Don't even get me started on 'chemicals' that could be found in your raw chicken o, even if you reared the chicken yourself...
wow,there are toxic chemicals in canned food like Bisphenol A (BPA) DAT are nt good for dogs BT y can't u tell us to stop feeding them those.And concerning d chemicals in chicken,its only preserved chickens DAT may contain chemicals nt life ones and dats y I sed DAT he sud always cook those frozen chicken,debone and serve BT for life chickens that u are sure of how it was reared,there is nothing wrong in serving raw.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by durubrian(m): 7:56pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:
wow,there are toxic chemicals in canned food like Bisphenol A (BPA) DAT are nt good for dogs BT y can't u tell us to stop feeding them those.And concerning d chemicals in chicken,its only preserved chickens DAT may contain chemicals nt life ones and dats y I sed DAT he sud always cook those frozen chicken,debone and serve BT for life chickens that u are sure of how it was reared,there is nothing wrong in serving raw.

This is funny.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 8:01pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
Which chemicals are you talking about? Can you name just 1 or 2 and tell us how they harm our dogs? Please say what you are sure of and not hearsay! We are talking about risk of transmission of diseases and harm from bones, and you're bringing up chemicals. Don't even get me started on 'chemicals' that could be found in your raw chicken o, even if you reared the chicken yourself...
So u are saying DAT even life chicken that are reared contains chemicals.epic
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 8:20pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
You can never be too sure of your source when even your source cannot be 100% sure that the meat is free of any pathogens...think 'incubation period.'

Even if you reared the chicken yourself and noticed no symptom of disease before killing the chicken, that does not mean the chicken was free of all potentially harmful pathogens or parasites...hence safer to cook. That's just my point.
well, its always necessary to vaccinate ur broilers and give them medications for potential diseases when rearing them to avoid any loss. So I can say DAT our broilers are free from diseases.

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 8:31pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:

So u are saying DAT even life chicken that are reared contains chemicals.epic
I guess you've not heard about the dangers of using something as common as antibiotics in livestock farming, or maybe you want to tell me that your live chickens don't ever get sick and you never have to give them drugs. When reared chickens fall sick they are give different drugs and these drugs remain in there body for a while even after they're well. When you kill such and use the meat to feed other animals or humans these drugs are consumed unknowingly. Such drugs taken passively from reared livestock can harmful effects on the consumers.

Sometimes even chickens that are well are also given drugs as well for prevention?
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 8:34pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:

well, its always necessary to vaccinate ur broilers and give them medications for potential diseases when rearing them to avoid any loss. So I can say DAT our broilers are free from diseases.
Exactly what I was pointing out above about the 'chemicals'. Abi drugs nor be chemicals again?
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 8:40pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
I guess you've not heard about the dangers of using something as common as antibiotics in livestock farming, or maybe you want to tell me that your live chickens don't ever get sick and you never have to give them drugs. When reared chickens fall sick they are give different drugs and these drugs remain in there body for a while even after they're well. When you kill such and use the meat to feed other animals or humans these drugs are consumed unknowingly. Such drugs taken passively from reared livestock can harmful effects on the consumers.

Sometimes even chickens that are well are also given drugs as well for prevention?
most meds given to chickens are also given to dogs,goats sheep and cows so don't tell me they are harmful to dogs.
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 8:41pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:
wow,there are toxic chemicals in canned food like Bisphenol A (BPA) DAT are nt good for dogs BT y can't u tell us to stop feeding them those.And concerning d chemicals in chicken,its only preserved chickens DAT may contain chemicals nt life ones and dats y I sed DAT he sud always cook those frozen chicken,debone and serve BT for life chickens that u are sure of how it was reared,there is nothing wrong in serving raw.
Well not all of them contain BPA, and most of them preserve by cooking, microwaving or steaming....

But that is besides the point...the argument is cooked vs raw meat, and somehow you have taken us to 'chemicals'...

1 Like

Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by agboedeh: 8:52pm On May 30, 2018
Rany4all:
Well not all of them contain BPA, and most of them preserve by cooking, microwaving or steaming....

But that is besides the point...the argument is cooked vs raw meat, and somehow you have taken us to 'chemicals'...
cooked chicken is good,organic raw chicken is also good for dogs.Feed ur dog d one u are more comfortable with
Re: Murphy the Boerboel and Gustaf the German shepherd by Rany4all(m): 9:02pm On May 30, 2018
agboedeh:
most meds given to chickens are also given to dogs,goats sheep and cows so don't tell me they are harmful to dogs.
Well, that is my area so just sit tight and grab your popcorn let me tell you just how harmful antibiotic use in livestock can be to consumers, whether humans or other animals.

1. If you expose bacteria to low, non-therapeutic doses of antibiotics, they will not be killed but they can learn from that experience and change in such a way that if you expose them to the same antibiotic again, even in therapeutic doses this time, they will still not be killed. We call that antibiotic resistance.

2. When another animal or human consumes meat containing antibiotics these antibiotics are often consumed in low doses so bacteria within the consumer can develop resistance against such antibiotics.

3. If the consumer ever comes down with an infection from these resistant bacteria, then it becomes difficult to treat because that antibiotic will not work against the bacteria.

4. Indiscriminate use of antibiotics in livestock farming is one of the major causes of antibiotic resistance, and its a huge problem for us in healthcare.

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