Emmanystone:

Lolzzzz. You are the one who is afraid of the truth. The truth can not be helped. No matter how much you try to suppress it, it has a way of coming out. Lies smells.

I think we are almost understanding ourselves, the first time the torah was ever presented was just after the exile from babylon, that is when Judaism started taking shape, the jews prior to that time worshipped the baals and asherahs,of the surrounding cities that they lived amongst..
This annoyed the Lord God that was why king cyrus asked Ezra to write it. As the God of cyrus was also Marduk. At least history says so..
Ezra got most of the information he used in writing the torah from babylon...

But before that time the epic of Gilgamesh, the enuma elish where already in existence..it is all about the anunaki gods...The baals and asherahs where the sons and daughters of Enlil...( moloch is ninurta, Nergal is the devil, inanna is lucifer and the Queen of heaven etc.) this always made marduk angry and usually punishes them by making their enemies over run them......

sonmvayina:

I think we are almost understanding ourselves, the first time the torah was ever presented was just after the exile from babylon, that is when Judaism started taking shape, the jews prior to that time worshipped the baals and asherahs,of the surrounduseing cities that they lived amongst..

Guy, you'd really have to give yourself an award for this powerful and insightful piece you just put up here. Wow, good job. The first time Torah was presented or written was when Cyrus asked Ezra to write it abi? In other words, the accounts of the Jews in Egypt, the Red Sea crossing, the 40yrs in the wilderness,.Moses, Joshua, Samson, Prophet Samuel, David, and all the kings of Israel. Prophets down to the last prophet Jeremiah before Israel went into captivity in Babylon were all flash backs? Yeah right.

So, the Ten Commandments, the sacrificial levitical laws were written in Babylon? Ahhhh. Guy, you are a genius.

sonmvayina:

This annoyed the Lord God that was why king cyrus asked Ezra to write it. As the God of cyrus was also Marduk. At least history says so..
Ezra got most of the information he used in writing the torah from babylon...

This is were it gets interesting. How could they have known not to worship Baal or any other God haven not been given rules as to who to worship?

sonmvayina:

But before that time the epic of Gilgamesh, the enuma elish where already in existence..it is all about the anunaki gods

Okay. In other words, Ezra copied from the Enuma Elish?

Pls, i will need you to reconcile these. In Enuma Elish, we don't see laws (moral) daily instructions for men to live by. We only see the creation account, the flood account and basically. If Ezra copied from it, where did he (Ezra), get this daily instructions?

Enuma Elish has no Ten Commandments, but the Torah does, where did it come from?

And, Note, the Ten Commandments are still the guiding rules in today's daily living, how did that come about?

Let's look at certian things in Enuma Elish and the Torah.
Torah: Noah=== (the builder of the Ark) Died at age of 950 years and he died.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim===(the builder of the boat) Has eternal life. Is he alive now? If yes, In which planet?

Genesis: The flood was as a result of sin

Epic of Gil: Pls, what caused the flood?

Genesis: The Rain lasted for 40 days and 40 nights. It wasn't only thw rains that caused the flood, they was under water earth quake (Tsunami).

Epic of Gil: The rain lasted on 6-7/days. Are they the same accounts? Which is more likely to be true? The 80 days rain including Tsunami or the 7days rain?

Genesis: Noah and his family only as humans enterd the Ark.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim his family and the men who build the Boat went in. Again, is it the same account?

Genesis: The Ark was Rectangular.
Epic of Gil: the boat was Square.

I can go on and on. Pls and these ones. Why the differences?

sonmvayina:

...The baals and asherahs where the sons and daughters of Enlil...( moloch is ninurta, Nergal is the devil, inanna is lucifer and the Queen of heaven etc.) this always made marduk angry and usually punishes them by making their enemies over run them......

Let me ask the question Okcornel asked, has this Planet 'Nibiru', been sighted by NASA before? And, these gods, are they on earth today or went back to Nibiru?

I can't believe i spent this time on this.

Emmanystone:

Guy, you'd really have to give yourself an award for this powerful and insightful piece you just put up here. Wow, good job. The first time Torah was presented or written was when Cyrus asked Ezra to write it abi? In other words, the accounts of the Jews in Egypt, the Red Sea crossing, the 40yrs in the wilderness,.Moses, Joshua, Samson, Prophet Samuel, David, and all the kings of Israel. Prophets down to the last prophet Jeremiah before Israel went into captivity in Babylon were all flash backs? Yeah right.

So, the Ten Commandments, the sacrificial levitical laws were written in Babylon? Ahhhh. Guy, you are a genius.

If I may speak on someone else's behalf, I would say that you've missed his point here entirely.

Those stories and myths that you mention have always existed in Hebrew lore. They are contained in the Torah. However the Torah itself, according to Somnaviya, was written by Ezra in the time of King Cyrus.

I would say that the Torah underwent a number of redactions from early in hebrew history up until the time of ezra which was when it was probably set in stone. It drew from Hebrew folklore heavily and there are many instances of references to Hebrew folklore that are not fully narrated in the Torah.

Emmanystone:

Guy, you'd really have to give yourself an award for this powerful and insightful piece you just put up here. Wow, good job. The first time Torah was presented or written was when Cyrus asked Ezra to write it abi? In other words, the accounts of the Jews in Egypt, the Red Sea crossing, the 40yrs in the wilderness,.Moses, Joshua, Samson, Prophet Samuel, David, and all the kings of Israel. Prophets down to the last prophet Jeremiah before Israel went into captivity in Babylon were all flash backs? Yeah right.

So, the Ten Commandments, the sacrificial levitical laws were written in Babylon? Ahhhh. Guy, you are a genius.


This is were it gets interesting. How could they have known not to worship Baal or any other God haven not been given rules as to who to worship?


Okay. In other words, Ezra copied from the Enuma Elish?

Pls, i will need you to reconcile these. In Enuma Elish, we don't see laws (moral) daily instructions for men to live by. We only see the creation account, the flood account and basically. If Ezra copied from it, where did he (Ezra), get this daily instructions?

Enuma Elish has no Ten Commandments, but the Torah does, where did it come from?

And, Note, the Ten Commandments are still the guiding rules in today's daily living, how did that come about?

Let's look at certian things in Enuma Elish and the Torah.
Torah: Noah=== (the builder of the Ark) Died at age of 950 years and he died.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim===(the builder of the boat) Has eternal life. Is he alive now? If yes, In which planet?

Genesis: The flood was as a result of sin

Epic of Gil: Pls, what caused the flood?

Genesis: The Rain lasted for 40 days and 40 nights. It wasn't only thw rains that caused the flood, they was under water earth quake (Tsunami).

Epic of Gil: The rain lasted on 6-7/days. Are they the same accounts? Which is more likely to be true? The 80 days rain including Tsunami or the 7days rain?

Genesis: Noah and his family only as humans enterd the Ark.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim his family and the men who build the Boat went in. Again, is it the same account?

Genesis: The Ark was Rectangular.
Epic of Gil: the boat was Square.

I can go on and on. Pls and these ones. Why the differences?



Let me ask the question Okcornel asked, has this Planet 'Nibiru', been sighted by NASA before? And, these gods, are they on earth today or went back to Nibiru?

I can't believe i spent this time on this.

If you have been following my post so far. You would have understood a thing or 2 about my beliefs.
Firstly I have said on this forum that the Bible is not a history text book, neither is it somebody's diary..it is a spiritual manual telling a spiritual story about a spiritual journey..it tells about journeying from spiritual ignorance ( slavery in Egypt) to spiritual enlightenment (the promised Land) it is expected that at age 40 you should have arrived there...
God is not a man or human being,( Numbers23:19)..but the universal conciousness...so all the stories in the Bible are all parables , you are expected to read it and learn the spiritual message it contains....for example God killing Onan for spilling his seed instead of pregnating his brother's wife is about irresponsible pleasure....that is pleasure without responsibility and it leads to death of the spirit...and so on and so forth..

I guess in one of Paul epistle, he said " the letter killeth" it means don't try to interpret the content of the story because it is a lie, but rather learn the message of the spirit that is what leads to life....comprende??

Nibiru on the other hand is Jupiter or Marduk, it is not another planet outside our solar system..

Emmanystone:

Guy, you'd really have to give yourself an award for this powerful and insightful piece you just put up here. Wow, good job. The first time Torah was presented or written was when Cyrus asked Ezra to write it abi? In other words, the accounts of the Jews in Egypt, the Red Sea crossing, the 40yrs in the wilderness,.Moses, Joshua, Samson, Prophet Samuel, David, and all the kings of Israel. Prophets down to the last prophet Jeremiah before Israel went into captivity in Babylon were all flash backs? Yeah right.

So, the Ten Commandments, the sacrificial levitical laws were written in Babylon? Ahhhh. Guy, you are a genius.


This is were it gets interesting. How could they have known not to worship Baal or any other God haven not been given rules as to who to worship?


Okay. In other words, Ezra copied from the Enuma Elish?

Pls, i will need you to reconcile these. In Enuma Elish, we don't see laws (moral) daily instructions for men to live by. We only see the creation account, the flood account and basically. If Ezra copied from it, where did he (Ezra), get this daily instructions?

Enuma Elish has no Ten Commandments, but the Torah does, where did it come from?

And, Note, the Ten Commandments are still the guiding rules in today's daily living, how did that come about?

Let's look at certian things in Enuma Elish and the Torah.
Torah: Noah=== (the builder of the Ark) Died at age of 950 years and he died.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim===(the builder of the boat) Has eternal life. Is he alive now? If yes, In which planet?

Genesis: The flood was as a result of sin

Epic of Gil: Pls, what caused the flood?

Genesis: The Rain lasted for 40 days and 40 nights. It wasn't only thw rains that caused the flood, they was under water earth quake (Tsunami).

Epic of Gil: The rain lasted on 6-7/days. Are they the same accounts? Which is more likely to be true? The 80 days rain including Tsunami or the 7days rain?

Genesis: Noah and his family only as humans enterd the Ark.
Epic of Gil: Utnapishtim his family and the men who build the Boat went in. Again, is it the same account?

Genesis: The Ark was Rectangular.
Epic of Gil: the boat was Square.

I can go on and on. Pls and these ones. Why the differences?



Let me ask the question Okcornel asked, has this Planet 'Nibiru', been sighted by NASA before? And, these gods, are they on earth today or went back to Nibiru?

I can't believe i spent this time on this.

If you have been following my post so far. You would have understood a thing or 2 about my beliefs.
Firstly I have said on this forum that the Bible is not a history text book, neither is it somebody's diary..it is a spiritual manual telling a spiritual story about a spiritual journey..it tells about journeying from spiritual ignorance ( slavery in Egypt) to spiritual enlightenment (the promised Land) it is expected that at age 40 you should have arrived there...
God is not a man or human being,( Numbers23:19)..but the universal conciousness...so all the stories in the Bible are all parables , you are expected to read it and learn the spiritual message it contains....for example God killing Onan for spilling his seed instead of pregnating his brother's wife is about irresponsible pleasure....that is pleasure without responsibility and it leads to death of the spirit...and so on and so forth..

I guess in one of Paul epistle, he said " the letter killeth" it means don't try to interpret the content of the story because it is a lie, but rather learn the message of the spirit that is what leads to life....comprende??

Nibiru on the other hand is Jupiter or Marduk, it is not another planet outside our solar system..

PastorAIO:


If I may speak on someone else's behalf, I would say that you've missed his point here entirely.

Those stories and myths that you mention have always existed in Hebrew lore. They are contained in the Torah. However the Torah itself, according to Somnaviya, was written by Ezra in the time of King Cyrus.

I would say that the Torah underwent a number of redactions from early in hebrew history up until the time of ezra which was when it was probably set in stone. It drew from Hebrew folklore heavily and there are many instances of references to Hebrew folklore that are not fully narrated in the Torah.

Can you plse answer the questions i raised?

sonmvayina:



If you have been following my post so far. You would have understood a thing or 2 about my beliefs.
Firstly I have said on this forum that the Bible is not a history text book, neither is it somebody's diary..it is a spiritual manual telling a spiritual story about a spiritual journey..it tells about journeying from spiritual ignorance ( slavery in Egypt) to spiritual enlightenment (the promised Land) it is expected that at age 40 you should have arrived there...
God is not a man or human being,( Numbers23:19)..but the universal conciousness...so all the stories in the Bible are all parables , you are expected to read it and learn the spiritual message it contains....for example God killing Onan for spilling his seed instead of pregnating his brother's wife is about irresponsible pleasure....that is pleasure without responsibility and it leads to death of the spirit...and so on and so forth..

I guess in one of Paul epistle, he said " the letter killeth" it means don't try to interpret the content of the story because it is a lie, but rather learn the message of the spirit that is what leads to life....comprende??

Nibiru on the other hand is Jupiter or Marduk, it is not another planet outside our solar system..

Can you pls answer the questions i raised? Don't vere into what is not part of this.

Did everything which happened until Cyrus became King a flashback? You mean King Nebuchadnezzar never existed as a person?

Emmanystone:

Can you plse answer the questions i raised?

Let me highlight your questions that you asked so that you can see that even though they were not addressed to me I did answer them to the best of my knowledge.

Emmanystone:

Guy, you'd really have to give yourself an award for this powerful and insightful piece you just put up here. Wow, good job. The first time Torah was presented or written was when Cyrus asked Ezra to write it abi? In other words, the accounts of the Jews in Egypt, the Red Sea crossing, the 40yrs in the wilderness,.Moses, Joshua, Samson, Prophet Samuel, David, and all the kings of Israel. Prophets down to the last prophet Jeremiah before Israel went into captivity in Babylon were all flash backs? Yeah right.

So, the Ten Commandments, the sacrificial levitical laws were written in Babylon? Ahhhh. Guy, you are a genius.

PastorAIO:


If I may speak on someone else's behalf, I would say that you've missed his point here entirely.

Those stories and myths that you mention have always existed in Hebrew lore. They are contained in the Torah. However the Torah itself, according to Somnaviya, was written by Ezra in the time of King Cyrus.

I would say that the Torah underwent a number of redactions from early in hebrew history up until the time of ezra which was when it was probably set in stone. It drew from Hebrew folklore heavily and there are many instances of references to Hebrew folklore that are not fully narrated in the Torah.

The History of the Yorubas was written by Samuel Johnson in the 18th century. However Yoruba history and the events contained in the book occurred or were rumored to have occurred centuries before.

The Torah is a book. It contains lore and stories that are rumored to have occurred long before the book was written. The story in the book and the book itself don't have to come into existence at the same time. The book can be a compilation of all the various stories that have been told for centuries before hand, added to and redacted many times over the centuries.

This is obvious in the OT because the OT itself makes references of other more authoritative books that it got it's stories from. For example the Book of Jasher.
The Book of the Wars of the Lord was referenced in the Torah itself.

Emmanystone:

Can you pls answer the questions i raised? Don't vere into what is not part of this.

Did everything which happened until Cyrus became King a flashback? You mean King Nebuchadnezzar never existed as a person?

You are the one who is slow to understand....we are talking about the Torah( Genesis to deteronomy) I said they where written by Ezra just after their exile in about 530bc and presented afterwards...and that ,that was the first time anybody knew anything about it...it is a spiritual manual not historical ...and most of the stories where adapted from Babylonian epics...

The serpent of the good tree was Ninghizhida and the serpent of the evil tree that caused death was Inanna and Dimuzi...( The original tale) ......


The Torah is what the Jews refer to as the book of the law and nobody is meant to change it, anybody who those is supposed to be killed and the Messiah is coming to make it known to all people, .for he will have a good knowledge of it...He will also end all wars and oppression and men will hammer their swords into ploughshare and learn of war no more..


All the other books gives the struggle of the Jews ...

Emmanystone:

Can you plse answer the questions i raised?

As for other questions such as 'where is nibiru' etc I think that those stories have just as much validity as the stories in the OT. You might as well ask if scientists have ever discovered any signs the Sun stood still. Or discovered where Jesus went when he was taken up into the clouds.

sonmvayina:


You are the one who is slow to understand....we are talking about the Torah( Genesis to deteronomy) I said they where written by Ezra just after their exile in about 530bc and presented afterwards...and that ,that was the first time anybody knew anything about it...it is a spiritual manual not historical ...and most of the stories where adapted from Babylonian epics...

The serpent of the good tree was Ninghizhida and the serpent of the evil tree that caused death was Inanna and Dimuzi...( The original tale) ......


The Torah is what the Jews refer to as the book of the law and nobody is meant to change it, anybody who those is supposed to be killed and the Messiah is coming to make it known to all people, .for he will have a good knowledge of it...He will also end all wars and oppression and men will hammer their swords into ploughshare and learn of war no more..


All the other books gives the struggle of the Jews ...

What part do you think King Josiah played in the contruction of the Torah?

PastorAIO:


As for other questions such as 'where is nibiru' etc I think that those stories have just as much validity as the stories in the OT. You might as well ask if scientists have ever discovered any signs the Sun stood still. Or discovered where Jesus went when he was taken up into the clouds.

Is that the only question you saw?

Aren't you an advocate of Nibiru? The Nibiru you'd rather have ua believe instead of what Genesis says.

Pls answer my questions.

sonmvayina:


You are the one who is slow to understand....we are talking about the Torah( Genesis to deteronomy) I said they where written by Ezra just after their exile in about 530bc and presented afterwards...and that ,that was the first time anybody knew anything about it...it is a spiritual manual not historical ...and most of the stories where adapted from Babylonian epics...

The serpent of the good tree was Ninghizhida and the serpent of the evil tree that caused death was Inanna and Dimuzi...( The original tale) ......


The Torah is what the Jews refer to as the book of the law and nobody is meant to change it, anybody who those is supposed to be killed and the Messiah is coming to make it known to all people, .for he will have a good knowledge of it...He will also end all wars and oppression and men will hammer their swords into ploughshare and learn of war no more..


All the other books gives the struggle of the Jews ...

Is it me or you? Who is stupid here?

So, Ezra who lived when the Jews were on Exile at the end of their 70yrs in Babylon wrote the first 5books, how did he do that?

I ask you again, did Moses exist? Was they a Red Sea crossing? You only talked about the 40 days being a journey of spiritual darkness to enlightenment. Wonderful!!!
What that means is that, the Jews were never in the wilderness.

The Bible says Ezra read from the Torah to refresh the memories of the Jews, especially on the areas they sinned against YHWH, which led them to captivity. It never says Ezra wrote the Torah. The people listened and repented of their sins. And this was done in the Temple in Jerusalem after their return.

Stop talking what is not relevant pls. No one talked about the snake in the Eden of the tree.

Pls answer my questions point by point and stop jumping about.

Why is Enuma Elish only.on the pages of paper today? Who are the people worshipping Anunnaki and all other gods? You?

PastorAIO:


Let me highlight your questions that you asked so that you can see that even though they were not addressed to me I did answer them to the best of my knowledge.





The History of the Yorubas was written by Samuel Johnson in the 18th century. However Yoruba history and the events contained in the book occurred or were rumored to have occurred centuries before.

The Torah is a book. It contains lore and stories that are rumored to have occurred long before the book was written. The story in the book and the book itself don't have to come into existence at the same time. The book can be a compilation of all the various stories that have been told for centuries before hand, added to and redacted many times over the centuries.

This is obvious in the OT because the OT itself makes references of other more authoritative books that it got it's stories from. For example the Book of Jasher.
The Book of the Wars of the Lord was referenced in the Torah itself.

Plsssss. You guys should give it a rest. You believe in what you believe. Carry on.

Emmanystone:

Plsssss. You guys should give it a rest. You believe in what you believe. Carry on.

I take it that you don't want your questions answered any more. No wahala.

Emmanystone:

Is that the only question you saw?

Aren't you an advocate of Nibiru? The Nibiru you'd rather have ua believe instead of what Genesis says.

Pls answer my questions.

Nope, I'm not an advocate of any Nibiru. Like I said before I give as much credence to nibiru as I give to any other myth such as those you espouse from your book of hebrew myths.

sonmvayina:


I think we are almost understanding ourselves, the first time the torah was ever presented was just after the exile from babylon, that is when Judaism started taking shape, the jews prior to that time worshipped the baals and asherahs,of the surrounding cities that they lived amongst..
This annoyed the Lord God that was why king cyrus asked Ezra to write it. As the God of cyrus was also Marduk. At least history says so..
Ezra got most of the information he used in writing the torah from babylon...

After the exile from Babylon? When you say "presented" what do you mean? Because Moses, who wrote the Torah had lived and died before Ezra and the exile. You are confusing yourself.

]

JMAN05:


After the exile from Babylon? When you say "presented" what do you mean? Because Moses, who wrote the Torah had lived and died before Ezra and the exile. You are confusing yourself.

]

Moses is just a character in the story, it is a spiritual story not a historical one...it means growing from spiritual ignorance (slavey in Egypt) to spiritual enlightenment ( the promised Land) it is expected that age 40 you should have arrived there..

Emmanystone:

Is it me or you? Who is stupid here?

So, Ezra who lived when the Jews were on Exile at the end of their 70yrs in Babylon wrote the first 5books, how did he do that?

I ask you again, did Moses exist? Was they a Red Sea crossing? You only talked about the 40 days being a journey of spiritual darkness to enlightenment. Wonderful!!!
What that means is that, the Jews were never in the wilderness.

The Bible says Ezra read from the Torah to refresh the memories of the Jews, especially on the areas they sinned against YHWH, which led them to captivity. It never says Ezra wrote the Torah. The people listened and repented of their sins. And this was done in the Temple in Jerusalem after their return.

Stop talking what is not relevant pls. No one talked about the snake in the Eden of the tree.

Pls answer my questions point by point and stop jumping about.

Why is Enuma Elish only.on the pages of paper today? Who are the people worshipping Anunnaki and all other gods? You?

You are nothing but I slowpoke....I said the Torah is a spiritual manual, Moss is just a character in the story, same as Abraham, and all the others...for the last time it is not a historical story..they are spiritual stories that Ezra adapted from Babylonian tales....

All the Gods of the old testament are all Anunaki Gods.....Marduk being the father of all the Gods, Enki, Enlil ,Inanna, Nergal...etc.

In the Noah story Enki was the God who gave man the blue print for making the ark. Enlil was the one who brought the flood. Together they all constitute what is referred to as Elohim.

JMAN05:


After the exile from Babylon? When you say "presented" what do you mean? Because Moses, who wrote the Torah had lived and died before Ezra and the exile. You are confusing yourself.

]

Your confusion lies where you cannot tell the difference between fiction and history. Someone calls a book fiction and you say the person is confused because there are ccharacters in the fiction book that according to the fiction lived before the writer of the book.

Emmanystone:

Plsssss. You guys should give it a rest. You believe in what you believe. Carry on.

If you were a sincere guy you would ask for the passage where the Torah makes reference to an older source

"From there they set out and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the desert and bounding the Amorite territory. For Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. That is why the Book of the Wars of the LORD says: '... Waheb in Suphah and the ravines of Arnon, and at the stream of the ravines that lead to the dwelling of Ar, which lies along the border of Moab.'"

Numbers 21-14


Obviously the book of the wars of the Lord already existed before the Torah that's why whoever was writing that part of the Torah could make reference to it.

Therefore the events that the Torah speaks about already existed in Hebrew lore.

PastorAIO:


If you were a sincere guy you would ask for the passage where the Torah makes reference to an older source



Numbers 21-14


Obviously the book of the wars of the Lord already existed before the Torah that's why whoever was writing that part of the Torah could make reference to it.

Therefore the events that the Torah speaks about already existed in Hebrew lore.

Okay, can we go about getting this book of the Wars of the Lord? From there we can ascertain who wrote them and when? Can you provide them or it?

And which Wars are we even talking about here? If the Wars refers to the Wars fought by the Israelites in the Wilderness, then you should know the references made pointed where the accounts were recorded, not that those events happened some years before the Torah was written.


Let me make it clearer for the sincere readers, not the biased bent on twisting the truth.

So many Wars were fought by the Jews trying to claim the land their God gave to them, the accounts or details of what ensued were written in a book Called 'The Book of the Wars of The Lord'. If the compilers of the Jews decided to separate those accounts from the Torah and make reference to them when necessary, didn't mean those accounts took place long before God created the Universe as recorded in the Torah.

Pls, how did we leave off talking about Ezra who lived after Prophet Jeremiah, After King Nebuchadnezzar who took Ezra into Captivity in the first place, and after Prophet Daniel and him (Ezra) writing the Torah to the books of the Wars of the Lord? Are you trying to shift grounds here?

Anyone who came up with the theory of Ezra writing the Torah obviously did not think, and out of desperation, some folks decided to also swallow what was served them hoping they can pass off their lies.

sonmvayina:

You are nothing but I slowpoke....I said the Torah is a spiritual manual, Moss is just a character in the story, same as Abraham, and all the others...for the last time it is not a historical story..they are spiritual stories that Ezra adapted from Babylonian tales....

All the Gods of the old testament are all Anunaki Gods.....Marduk being the father of all the Gods, Enki, Enlil ,Inanna, Nergal...etc.

In the Noah story Enki was the God who gave man the blue print for making the ark. Enlil was the one who brought the flood. Together they all constitute what is referred to as Elohim.

OkCornel, pls pls and pls, come over here and ask this quy the questions you asked Ifenes, he probably didn't see those questions. I am too busy to go over them with this guy.

Or, i will have to find time and repost the questions to this guy.

Guy, If you had tried to answer my questions point by point, your confusion will have been cleared.

Emmanystone:

Okay, can we go about getting this book of the Wars of the Lord? From there we can ascertain who wrote them and when? Can you provide them or it?


And which Wars are we even talking about here? If the Wars refers to the Wars fought by the Israelites in the Wilderness, then you should know the references made pointed where the accounts were recorded, not that those events happened some years before the Torah was written.

Are you serious? Is it me you're asking? Why don't you go to your local bookstore and ask them to order it for you. If they complain insist that the book is mentioned in the bible and they must find it for you.

Let me make it clearer for the sincere readers, not the biased bent on twisting the truth.

So many Wars were fought by the Jews trying to claim the land their God gave to them, the accounts or details of what ensued were written in a book Called 'The Book of the Wars of The Lord'. If the compilers of the Jews decided to separate those accounts from the Torah and make reference to them when necessary, didn't mean those accounts took place long before God created the Universe as recorded in the Torah.

Oh, now you are an expert in the Book. You say that the account of the 'Jews' (hebrew's actually) conquest Canaan was written in the Book.

Okay, another book is now written called the Torah which makes reference to The Book of the Wars. Is it not obvious that the Book of the Wars was written before the Torah?

Not only that but you say the book was an account of the Israelite's conquest of Canaan. The conquest of Canaan continued long after Moses was suipposed to have died. Therefore this amounts to the second evidence that Moses did not write the Torah.

1) The Torah talks about his Death

2) The Torah makes reference to a book about the conquest of Canaan which continued long after Moses death.

PastorAIO:


Are you serious? Is it me you're asking? Why don't you go to your local bookstore and ask them to order it for you. If they complain insist that the book is mentioned in the bible and they must find it for you.



Oh, now you are an expert in the Book. You say that the account of the 'Jews' (hebrew's actually) conquest Canaan was written in the Book.

Okay, another book is now written called the Torah which makes reference to The Book of the Wars. Is it not obvious that the Book of the Wars was written before the Torah?

Not only that but you say the book was an account of the Israelite's conquest of Canaan. The conquest of Canaan continued long after Moses was suipposed to have died. Therefore this amounts to the second evidence that Moses did not write the Torah.

1) The Torah talks about his Death

2) The Torah makes reference to a book about the conquest of Canaan which continued long after Moses death.

And the Book of Wars was referenced by Moses or Joshua who took over from Moses?

Emmanystone:

And the Book of Wars was referenced by Moses or Joshua who took over from Moses?

The Book of Wars was referenced by the writer of the Torah whoever that may be.

Quite unlikely it was Moses as I pointed out earlier.

Emmanystone:

Is it me or you? Who is stupid here?

So, Ezra who lived when the Jews were on Exile at the end of their 70yrs in Babylon wrote the first 5books, how did he do that?

I ask you again, did Moses exist? Was they a Red Sea crossing? You only talked about the 40 days being a journey of spiritual darkness to enlightenment. Wonderful!!!
What that means is that, the Jews were never in the wilderness.

The Bible says Ezra read from the Torah to refresh the memories of the Jews, especially on the areas they sinned against YHWH, which led them to captivity. It never says Ezra wrote the Torah. The people listened and repented of their sins. And this was done in the Temple in Jerusalem after their return.

Stop talking what is not relevant pls. No one talked about the snake in the Eden of the tree.

Pls answer my questions point by point and stop jumping about.

Why is Enuma Elish only.on the pages of paper today? Who are the people worshipping Anunnaki and all other gods? You?

This guy thinks talking about Anunnaki means one must be worshiping them. We are sonmvayina and ifenes are only trying to let you know that those are the guys you worship. You want evidence of what they are saying but you cannot find evidence of Moses writing about his own death.

PastorAIO:


The Book of Wars was referenced by the writer of the Torah whoever that may be.

Quite unlikely it was Moses as I pointed out earlier.

You said Moses couldn't have written the Torah because he was dead, i then asked who referenced the Book of the Wars of the Lord which you brought up. Which book of the Bible mentioned the Book of Wars?

And, i asked you before why you are shifting grounds?

So now it's no longer Ezra who wrote the Torah, but 'Whoever?'.

Am not about the book of the wars which you are trying to make this about, i want to know how Ezra could have written the Torah. Pls let's dwell on this.

Emmanystone:

You said Moses couldn't have written the Torah because he was dead, i then asked who referenced the Book of the Wars of the Lord which you brought up. Which book of the Bible mentioned the Book of Wars?

I don't personally know who wrote about the Book of Wars in the Torah, but I do know that it is in the Torah and I also know that Moses couldn't have written the Torah because the Torah tells us about Moses' death.

You'll find mention of the Book of Wars in Numbers.
aka Bamidbar

And, i asked you before why you are shifting grounds?

So now it's no longer Ezra who wrote the Torah, but 'Whoever?'.

Since ezra qualifies as a 'who' then Whoever includes him too so no need to poo in your pants. Nobody is shifting any grounds. I repeat, I believe that the Torah was redacted numerous times. I also feel that Josiah's 'discovery' contributed to the Torah and it may well be Ezra who finalized the version we have today.

Am not about the book of the wars which you are trying to make this about, i want to know how Ezra could have written the Torah. Pls let's dwell on this.

Ezra could have had a hand in the Torah as it has come down to us because he was a very prominent figure in Jewish religion. It is believed by Jews that Ezra was second to no one except Moses amongst the prophets. He is more respected than Elijah Isaiah etc etc etc..

Ezra made many amendments to the Jewish religion and those amendments and redactions can be seen clearly where there seem to be contradictions in the letter and the spirit of the Torah. Ezra had a very racist streak and I feel that he injected that into the Torah.

The reason that I brought up the Book of Wars is to show you that the Torah had other books it was sourced from and made reference to. Also folk songs and general Hebrew Lore was source material for the torah. Furthermore the reference to the Book of Wars indicates that Moses could not have written the Torah since as you say it was about the wars of canaanite conquest and those wars continued after Moses died.

Ezra made many amendments to the Jewish religion and those amendments and redactions can be seen clearly where there seem to be contradictions in the letter and the spirit of the Torah. Ezra had a very racist streak and I feel that he injected that into the Torah.

The reason that I brought up the Book of Wars is to show you that the Torah had other books it was sourced from and made reference to. Also folk songs and general Hebrew Lore was source material for the torah. Furthermore the reference to the Book of Wars indicates that Moses could not have written the Torah since as you say it was about the wars of canaanite conquest and those wars continued after Moses died. [/quote]

PastorAIO:

I don't personally know who wrote about the Book of Wars in the Torah, but I do know that it is in the Torah and I also know that Moses couldn't have written the Torah because the Torah tells us about Moses' death.

You'll find mention of the Book of Wars in Numbers.
aka Bamidbar

Wikipedia and others sources says the Book of Wars was a record of the wars fought by the Jews in Canaan, just as i said. What does these tell us? The man who wrote the First Five books also wrote that book.

Moses wrote those books if he didn't you won't be the one to say otherwise, the Jews will be.

PastorAIO:

Since ezra qualifies as a 'who' then Whoever includes him too so no need to poo in your pants. Nobody is shifting any grounds. I repeat, I believe that the Torah was redacted numerous times. I also feel that Josiah's 'discovery' contributed to the Torah and it may well be Ezra who finalized the version we have today.

A discussion in my opinion should be to learn not to win or be the one to have the last word. That said, pls can we try be objective in our thoughts here?

First seta of questions i have been trying to put forward are;
Who was Ezra?
When did he live?
What do you mean he wrote the Torah?
Is it the same with the case of Catholicism putting together the Bible books and claiming they wrote it?

Can a man [Ezra] who had died before the last book of the Old Testament (Malachi)was written said to havs been the one who wrote it?

This is really not sensible if you ask me. The Bible (Torah) is a collection of books (Prophesies mostly) written by different prophets, accounts of the Kings, Shepherds, and laymen. All these men lived in different times. If you insist because Ezra is a 'Who' hence; qualifies as the writer of the Old Testament, then Ezra must be immortal. That will also mean, all the prophets never lived or lived only in Ezra's mind.

PastorAIO:

Ezra could have had a hand in the Torah as it has come down to us because he was a very prominent figure in Jewish religion. It is believed by Jews that Ezra was second to no one except Moses amongst the prophets. He is more respected than Elijah Isaiah etc etc etc..

Well, Sources says otherwise as he was said to be a scribe and only a priest. His father was the last priest wbo served in the Temple in Jwrusalem before the exile to Babylon.

Being a scribe also, he recorded events which took place around him. God never revealed the future to him as He did with prophets. If that happened pls post it.



[quote author=PastorAIO post=66438589]

[quote author=PastorAIO post=66438589]

It is not only obvious that the Torah is drawn from previous traditions and lore of the middle east but that it is even incomplete in doing so.


For example. The Creation saga in Genesis 1. There is no mention of the nitty gritty of what actually happened. Just a cursory mention like 'Elohim separated the water from the land' etc.

Yet the creation story was drawn from a much richer source and to get an inkling of that source you have to go out of the Torah. Okay let's not go too far out first. Let's stay within the bible and go to the Book of Job.

There we will see that the act of creation actually involve an epic battle with a sea monster called Leviathan.

In Job 41 God boasts about how he defeated Leviathan in the act of creation:

1a “Can you draw out Leviathanb with a fishhook
or press down his tongue with a cord?
2Can you put a rope in his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3Will he make many pleas to you?
Will he speak to you soft words?
4Will he make a covenant with you
to take him for your servant forever?
5Will you play with him as with a bird,
or will you put him on a leash for your girls?
6Will traders bargain over him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?
7Can you fill his skin with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?
8Lay your hands on him;
remember the battle—you will not do it again!
9c Behold, the hope of a man is false;
he is laid low even at the sight of him.
10No one is so fierce that he dares to stir him up.
Who then is he who can stand before me?
11Who has first given to me, that I should repay him?
Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12“I will not keep silence concerning his limbs,
or his mighty strength, or his goodly frame.
13Who can strip off his outer garment?
Who would come near him with a bridle?

Psalms 74 also talks about the same event:

12Yet God my King is from of old,
working salvation in the midst of the earth.
13You divided the sea by your might;
you broke the heads of the sea monstersd on the waters.
14You crushed the heads of Leviathan;
you gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
15You split open springs and brooks;
you dried up ever-flowing streams.
16Yours is the day, yours also the night;
you have established the heavenly lights and the sun.
17You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth;
you have made summer and winter.

This tradition of creation by defeating a sea serpent is found all through out the middle east. I wouldn't say that they got it from babylon but rather that it is part of the same traditions with not only babylon but Canaan too, and Egypt and even Greece not to mention Scandinavia or Yorubaland. But that is taking you too far out. Let us stay within the bible for now.

Emmanystone:
Wikipedia and others sources says the Book of Wars was a record of the wars fought by the Jews in Canaan, just as i said. What does these tell us? The man who wrote the First Five books also wrote that book.

Moses wrote those books if he didn't you won't be the one to say otherwise, the Jews will be.

I think the main point where you do not get what I am saying and subsequently everything goes over your head is around this issue of a singular author of the Torah.

I will repeat my point very slowly:

The Torah came to it's present form over centuries of redaction and additions.