OneJ:

U said "animals don't have souls & spirit" .Na big lie ooo. The spirit refers to d breathe of life. Spirit is life-giving. (Eccl3 :19,20. James 2:26).. U guys confuse yourselves about understanding of the phrase. "image of God". It simply means that only Adam possessed God-given powers of superior intelligence (which other animals don't have.) for man to have dominion over other animals. ( Gen1:26-28). Seth was in the likeness of Adam ,his father. (Gen5:3).
(Adam was in the image of God just as Jesus was in the image of the invisible God. Therefore, Jesus is the first born of creation. Colossians1:15. He was created. Yes !!!)
Man is never a spirit because "flesh & blood can not inherit the kingdom of God in heaven. Flesh(man) gives birth to flesh(man). Spirit gives birth to spirit "(john3 :5,6. 1Cor15: 40. Man is a fleshly entity. Angels are spirit entities. Pls don't get it twisted.

I will strongly disagree with you dear. Plants have only bodies. Animals have bodies and souls. Man is higher, he has body, soul and his own spirit, which is different from the Spirit of life which gives him life.

Man is primarily a Spirit who has a soul and dwells in a body. Don't get confused please.

You're confusing the spirit of God and man, with the spirit of life. Let's look at the application.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul, like wise animal souls. It is the spirit of life.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Jesus was not created, He was begotten!. From your point of view, I see you as one of those who don't believe in the afterlife, am I correct?.

Primesky:


I will strongly disagree with you dear. Plants have only bodies. Animals have bodies and souls. Man is higher, he has body, soul and his own spirit, which is different from the Spirit of life which gives him life.

Man is primarily a Spirit who has a soul and dwells in a body. Don't get confused please.

You're confusing the spirit of God and man, with the spirit of life. Let's look at the application.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul, like wise animal souls. It is the spirit of life.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Jesus was not created, He was begotten!. From your point of view, I see you as one of those who don't believe in the afterlife, am I correct?.

Please your last sentence leads to a question,can you plainly explain what RESURRECTION means? I asked this question to get what you had in mind with the term AFTERLIFE because i can't find it in my own copy of the Bible but i can see resurrection!

Riofidelio:
Well it's a pity that you only want to stick to the popular ideology in your locality but my friend if you must know animals have both BODY(the physical formation for identity which deteroriates at death and return to dust) SOUL(that innate tendency to store information) and SPIRIT(the breath of life God blew into the nostril of all creatures to sustain the life force in them) at death the only thing that comes out is the spirit(breath) because it's the ACTIVE FORCE keeping creatures alive,so both body and soul DIES! It's like you agreed with the first two so you can read to confirm that animals have spirit in Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 Please stop arguing against God's word out of ignorance,the Bible clearly said all creatures have just the same spirit,for easier understanding your think about your tv set,radio,fan,refridgerator,air conditioner and other electronic devices all have different functions but when there is no electricity to power it they're all useless,the same could be said of the spirit were referring to on this matter it totally differ from ANGELS who are separate unseen intelligent creatures!God bless you.

Animals have body and souls. They however do not have spirit like man does. What they have is the spirit of life, which gives them life!. Please understand the difference.

You guys keep quoting Ecclesiastes 3:18-20,but misinterprete it. What gives life to the 'body'?. It's the spirit of life from God, whether is animal or man, the 'body' survives by God's spirit. When the body dies, it must turn to dust, but the spirit and soul continues to live. This is the one who will face divine judgement.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Well, the truth is you're actually contradicting God's word, by suggesting that after death, both soul and spirit dies or vanishes, which is to say, nothing remains of the man?. Isn't this your position?. But you clearly are wrong!. Simply because you do not understand the application of the words.

When spirit is used in the bible, it could mean different things given the context, know that the bible was translated. For instance, the English has love as a word but the Greek has four different words for love which is applied in different context.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

From the above scripture, you see another use of spirit. This is not mere breath or wind.

Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.


Here, there's a clear distinction between the spirit of man and the spirit of God. This spirit is a personality, who is capable of doing something as can be seen above. And spirits don't die like the flesh die.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Again, here we see souls as entities that continues to live after death. From the above, you see the souls of men who had been murdered, come back to life?. So according to you, if the soul is a mere recorder or center point of emotions which just vanishes after death, how come the souls of the murdered lived and reigned?.

Riofidelio:
Please your last sentence leads to a question,can you plainly explain what RESURRECTION means? I asked this question to get what you had in mind with the term AFTERLIFE because i can't find it in my own copy of the Bible but i can see resurrection!

Well, that's what I mean. Resurrection.

Do you believe in the resurrection?. When we resurrect, where will we be and what kind of body will we have?.

Primesky:


Animals have body and souls. They however do not have spirit like man does. What they have is the spirit of life, which gives them life!. Please understand the difference.

You guys keep quoting Ecclesiastes 3:18-20,but misinterprete it. What gives life to the 'body'?. It's the spirit of life from God, whether is animal or man, the 'body' survives by God's spirit. When the body dies, it must turn to dust, but the spirit and soul continues to live. This is the one who will face divine judgement.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Well, the truth is you're actually contradicting God's word, by suggesting that after death, both soul and spirit dies or vanishes, which is to say, nothing remains of the man?. Isn't this your position?. But you clearly are wrong!. Simply because you do not understand the application of the words.

When spirit is used in the bible, it could mean different things given the context, know that the bible was translated. For instance, the English has love as a word but the Greek has four different words for love which is applied in different context.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

From the above scripture, you see another use of spirit. This is not mere breath or wind.

Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.


Here, there's a clear distinction between the spirit of man and the spirit of God. This spirit is a personality, who is capable of doing something as can be seen above. And spirits don't die like the flesh die.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Again, here we see souls as entities that continues to live after death. From the above, you see the souls of men who had been murdered, come back to life?. So according to you, if the soul is a mere recorder or center point of emotions which just vanishes after death, how come the souls of the murdered lived and reigned?.

They are simply those whose minds were filled with the teachings of Christ so at death nothing survives them than those useful memories that God kept in rebembrance of them.They're Born Again Christians so God has a different plan for them apart from other faithful servant who never got baptized in the SPIRIT,their own resurrection takes place not bodily anymore because they shall be resurrected as spirit beings,what makes them the same personalities are the "recorded information" they kept:their love,their hatred,their motives and all other feelings has totally become the same as that of Jesus Christ: So God has their names written due to their good works. Malachi 3:16 That's why it's their SOULS that could be seen in a revelation of what will happen in the future by a Born again Christian who eventually is also one of them (John).Revelation 20:4 compared to verse 15 They're those that will be trsnsformed into spirit beings to live as kings and priests and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years while all other faithful humans have the hope of living on earth forever as originally planned by God! Revelations 14:6 Concerning those 144,000 born agains Jesus said "John the baptist is lesser than them" why? Because John the baptist never got baptized in the spirit so he is not going to heaven but will be resurrected in the body just like other ancient faithful men! Matthew 11:11 but John is greater than all those faithful men prior to him because he lived as a contemporary of Jesus,saw Him,baptized Him and even directed his own immediate followers to follow Him!

Note that we observers are learning from the engagement in this thread, so thank you for your time and effort. What is being discussed is your individual 'beliefs', with hopefully, scripture in support. It is a rather poignant topic and no one can truly claim to 'know'.

So please tire not! With time, and patience, all will become clearer. Only the dead in spirit would not be further enlightened by the engagement.

Riofidelio:
They are simply those whose minds were filled with the teachings of Christ so at death nothing survives them than those useful memories that God kept in rebembrance of them.They're Born Again Christians so God has a different plan for them apart from other faithful servant who never got baptized in the SPIRIT,their own resurrection takes place not bodily anymore because they shall be resurrected as spirit beings,what makes them the same personalities are the "recorded information" they kept:their love,their hatred,their motives and all other feelings has totally become the same as that of Jesus Christ: So God has their names written due to their good works. Malachi 3:16 That's why it's their SOULS that could be seen in a revelation of what will happen in the future by a Born again Christian who eventually is also one of them (John).Revelation 20:4 compared to verse 15 They're those that will be trsnsformed into spirit beings to live as kings and priests and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years while all other faithful humans have the hope of living on earth forever as originally planned by God! Revelations 14:6 Concerning those 144,000 born agains Jesus said "John the baptist is lesser than them" why? Because John the baptist never got baptized in the spirit so he is not going to heaven but will be resurrected in the body just like other ancient faithful men! Matthew 11:11 but John is greater than all those faithful men prior to him because he lived as a contemporary of Jesus,saw Him,baptized Him and even directed his own immediate followers to follow Him!

Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable fact from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

Riofidelio:
They are simply those whose minds were filled with the teachings of Christ so at death nothing survives them than those useful memories that God kept in rebembrance of them.They're Born Again Christians so God has a different plan for them apart from other faithful servant who never got baptized in the SPIRIT,their own resurrection takes place not bodily anymore because they shall be resurrected as spirit beings,what makes them the same personalities are the "recorded information" they kept:their love,their hatred,their motives and all other feelings has totally become the same as that of Jesus Christ: So God has their names written due to their good works. Malachi 3:16 That's why it's their SOULS that could be seen in a revelation of what will happen in the future by a Born again Christian who eventually is also one of them (John).Revelation 20:4 compared to verse 15 They're those that will be trsnsformed into spirit beings to live as kings and priests and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years while all other faithful humans have the hope of living on earth forever as originally planned by God! Revelations 14:6 Concerning those 144,000 born agains Jesus said "John the baptist is lesser than them" why? Because John the baptist never got baptized in the spirit so he is not going to heaven but will be resurrected in the body just like other ancient faithful men! Matthew 11:11 but John is greater than all those faithful men prior to him because he lived as a contemporary of Jesus,saw Him,baptized Him and even directed his own immediate followers to follow Him!

Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there are obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable facts from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


Here we see that though Samuel was already dead and buried, his spirit was still called out by the woman with familiar spirits, although God forbids us from doing this. Samuel came up and told Saul what was going to happen! Which means, though he was dead, his spirit was still very much alive and conscious!.

Here is another example.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Here we see Father Abraham, who has been long dead and buried, speaking to the spirit of the rich man, mere consciousness can't do that. This is a conscious living person talking and even describing the kind of life the richman had lived while he was still alive in the body in the world.

Again, I will ask you. During the transfiguration, where did Moses and Elijah come from?. Were they mere 'recorded information'?.

3. All true believers in Jesus Christ, will finally go to heaven. This is the promise of God. Heaven is not meant for only 144,000 persons.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed that all those who believe in Him will be where He is to see His glory. So where is Jesus, heaven or earth?, and how can we who believe in Him see His glory, if we don't go to heaven?!.
Here is another one.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Is this promise above by Jesus Christ himself a lie?.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The passage above talks about a great multitude which no man can number, obviously that's not 144,000. At least 144,000 can easily be numbered by anybody. And these people came from all over the world. And this people stood before the throne. Is this not the throne of God?. So where is this throne, in heaven or on earth?.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

I don't know about you, but for me, I believe the words and promises of Jesus Christ, that He will go and prepare a place for me, and after that, He will come again and take me to be with Him where He is!. That's in the bible and it's incontrovertible!.

Primesky:



Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there are obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable facts from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


Here we see that though Samuel was already dead and buried, his spirit was still called out by the woman with familiar spirits, although God forbids us from doing this. Samuel came up and told Saul what was going to happen! Which means, though he was dead, his spirit was still very much alive and conscious!.

Here is another example.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Here we see Father Abraham, who has been long dead and buried, speaking to the spirit of the rich man, mere consciousness can't do that. This is a conscious living person talking and even describing the kind of life the richman had lived while he was still alive in the body in the world.

Again, I will ask you. During the transfiguration, where did Moses and Elijah come from?. Were they mere 'recorded information'?.

3. All true believers in Jesus Christ, will finally go to heaven. This is the promise of God. Heaven is not meant for only 144,000 persons.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed that all those who believe in Him will be where He is to see His glory. So where is Jesus, heaven or earth?, and how can we who believe in Him see His glory, if we don't go to heaven?!.
Here is another one.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Is this promise above by Jesus Christ himself a lie?.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The passage above talks about a great multitude which no man can number, obviously that's not 144,000. At least 144,000 can easily be numbered by anybody. And these people came from all over the world. And this people stood before the throne. Is this not the throne of God?. So where is this throne, in heaven or on earth?.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

I don't know about you, but for me, I believe the words and promises of Jesus Christ, that He will go and prepare a place for me, and after that, He will come again and take me to be with Him where He is!. That's in the bible and it's incontrovertible!.

You only need humility to read, listen, meditate and pray earnestly for the wisdom of God because if not you can't grasp anything worthwhile. First let me remind you that Jesus said He did not come for every nation but only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Matthew 10:6,15:24 Yet at John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so love the world.....sent HIS only begotten son....but have everlasting life" Can you explain why the same Jesus made these two contrary statements? Secondly you quoted 1Samuel,hmmmmmmmm well that's the difference between a Christian(Someone who can adequately explain what the Bible says) and a Churchgoer. Do you think Samuel (a true servant of God) who led the campaign to drive away all the witches and sorcerers and also refused to see Saul again till his death could be forced by a "witch" to come and speak to the same Saul? Or do you think it's God that releases or permits dead Samuel to do so? Well that's where discernment comes in(Proverbs 2:1-5) so let me help you out.That in fact was a DEMON posing and speaking like Samuel not the same Samuel! God's word clearly says the living they know they'll die but the dead knows NOTHING at all,and all their memories is gone,they have NOTHING to do with the living any more! Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 So it's DEMONS putting on dead human's form to discredit God's word(Bible),the dead can't harm nor help the living!

Primesky:



Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there are obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable facts from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


Here we see that though Samuel was already dead and buried, his spirit was still called out by the woman with familiar spirits, although God forbids us from doing this. Samuel came up and told Saul what was going to happen! Which means, though he was dead, his spirit was still very much alive and conscious!.

Here is another example.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Here we see Father Abraham, who has been long dead and buried, speaking to the spirit of the rich man, mere consciousness can't do that. This is a conscious living person talking and even describing the kind of life the richman had lived while he was still alive in the body in the world.

Again, I will ask you. During the transfiguration, where did Moses and Elijah come from?. Were they mere 'recorded information'?.

3. All true believers in Jesus Christ, will finally go to heaven. This is the promise of God. Heaven is not meant for only 144,000 persons.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed that all those who believe in Him will be where He is to see His glory. So where is Jesus, heaven or earth?, and how can we who believe in Him see His glory, if we don't go to heaven?!.
Here is another one.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Is this promise above by Jesus Christ himself a lie?.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The passage above talks about a great multitude which no man can number, obviously that's not 144,000. At least 144,000 can easily be numbered by anybody. And these people came from all over the world. And this people stood before the throne. Is this not the throne of God?. So where is this throne, in heaven or on earth?.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

I don't know about you, but for me, I believe the words and promises of Jesus Christ, that He will go and prepare a place for me, and after that, He will come again and take me to be with Him where He is!. That's in the bible and it's incontrovertible!.

Yes i'm one of Jehovah's witnesses,we believe some people are going to heaven for a purpose but every other person will live on earth! Jesus actually came to gather ONLY those that are going to rule with Him,God's promise to Abraham is that the Christ and all His corulers must be Abraham's descendants. So Jesus' coming is to gather and train them for that purposed(rule the earth). Israelites rejected Him so that invitation was blown open to Gentiles but not after God's promise to Abraham has been fulfilled as the first set of Christians came from Israel and Jesus promised them that He's taking them to heaven because Jerusalem the original place for the Messiah's throne shall be destroyed! Matthew 23:37 That is why those corulers with Christ must have SPIRIT bodies since flesh and blood doesn't have any business in heaven.John 3:6 compared to Psalm 115:16 Their number is 144,000 and they're the fold that matters most to Jesus because they will always be with Him,they're to gather the great crowd of obedient subjects of their kingdom on earth.John 10:16 That is why they must go preaching and teaching in form of a global campaign to alert obedient mankind about their coming government. Daniel 2:44 They don't need voting because God chose and anointed them with HIS spirit,so whoever disagree or disregard them will perish since the kingdom of the Christ belongs to them! Jesus said other humans who want to enjoy the benefit of that kingdom must support the 144,000 born agains in their effort to preach globally. Matthew 28:19,20 compared with Revelations 22:17

Riofidelio:
You only need humility to read, listen, meditate and pray earnestly for the wisdom of God because if not you can't grasp anything worthwhile. First let me remind you that Jesus said He did not come for every nation but only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Matthew 10:6,15:24 Yet at John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so love the world.....sent HIS only begotten son....but have everlasting life" Can you explain why the same Jesus made these two contrary statements? Secondly you quoted 1Samuel,hmmmmmmmm well that's the difference between a Christian(Someone who can adequately explain what the Bible says) and a Churchgoer. Do you think Samuel (a true servant of God) who led the campaign to drive away all the witches and sorcerers and also refused to see Saul again till his death could be forced by a "witch" to come and speak to the same Saul? Or do you think it's God that releases or permits dead Samuel to do so? Well that's where discernment comes in(Proverbs 2:1-5) so let me help you out.That in fact was a DEMON posing and speaking like Samuel not the same Samuel! God's word clearly says the living they know they'll die but the dead knows NOTHING at all,and all their memories is gone,they have NOTHING to do with the living any more! Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 So it's DEMONS putting on dead human's form to discredit God's word(Bible),the dead can't harm nor help the living!

You do not really understand the world you live in my dear. Look at the issue of Samuel. It's true that the devil can manipulate and deceive people with the images of the dead, that's why God forbids us from doing that
(consulting the dead) because we wouldn't know which is which. The bible says it was Samuel and you're saying it wasn't him. Read this passages below carefully.

1 Samuel 28:15 [b]And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.[/b]

The bible says it was Samuel, and Samuel even repeated what he had told Saul while he was still alive. If the bible says it was Samuel, when in fact it wasn't him, then the bible lied!, and shouldn't be trusted. But the bible can't lie!. If it wasn't the spirit of Samuel, the bible would have told us. Stop assuming. It's true the devil can deceive through such means, that's why God forbids it. But this case is clear. Again the passage you're quoting about the dead knowing nothing after death, is totally out of context. I gave you some names before, and you haven't disproved it.

Tell me about Father Abraham talking to the Richman after death?. How did he know about the lifestyle of the Richman on earth?.

Tell me about Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus during the configuration?. Where did they come from?.

Tell me about the spirits of the Saints coming out of their graves and appearing to people after the death of Jesus Christ?.


About Jesus saying he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Hmm... You misunderstand the scriptures!. Have you never read that salvation is from the jews?. As at the time Jesus made that statement, He was not yet crucified, so how can the gentiles be engrafted into the promise of God to Abraham?. Jesus came to save all mankind beginning first with the jews, but they rejected it, so he turned to the gentiles. But it was all God's plan right from the beginning. We become spiritual Israelites by believing in Christ Jesus. Jesus didn't give so much attention to the gentiles while He was still alive as much as He did to the jews because He was not yet lifted up. Remember what He said, 'if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto my self'.
Did you at all think that heaven is only for the jews or that we the gentiles are second class believers?. No my dear. Now see what Jesus said below.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Who are these many?, from where and where?. These are obviously gentiles who ordinarily are not supposed to be part of the promise. But because of Jesus, are now part of it. Remember God said to Abraham that by thy seed shall all the families of the world be blessed. Who or what is the seed of Abraham. God was clearly talking about Jesus Christ.

From the passage above, the kingdom these people will be gathered together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the kingdom of heaven!. It's very clear. So please understand the context of the scriptures. God bless you.

Primesky:


I will strongly disagree with you dear. Plants have only bodies. Animals have bodies and souls. Man is higher, he has body, soul and his own spirit, which is different from the Spirit of life which gives him life.

Man is primarily a Spirit who has a soul and dwells in a body. Don't get confused please.

You're confusing the spirit of God and man, with the spirit of life. Let's look at the application.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul, like wise animal souls. It is the spirit of life.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Jesus was not created, He was begotten!. From your point of view, I see you as one of those who don't believe in the afterlife, am I correct?.

U said "Jesus was not created. He was begotten". Primesky ,U are confused. Man is the image of God,same as Jesus is the image of the same God. He is the firstborn of creation. Colossians 1:15. Pls, quarrel with your Bible. Trinity is built on the falsified insertion of "I am" into Hebrew scriptures(Exodus 3:14. Rather, " I will become what will become.". Every Jew or Israeli knows "I am" is a fraud.) The term "I am" does not exist in Hebrew because their language has no present tense.
Animals & man have the breath of life which the Bible refers to as "spirit".(Eccl3:18-21. James2:26. Ps104:29).It's not rocket science. (the context determines the meaning. At times, the term 'spirit' can also refers to emotions of anger, anxiety or joy. eg my spirit is anxious. Its does not mean that a separate invisible entity in me is anxious. ). The story of Lazarus & rich man is a parable. It NEVER happened in real life. Its a lesson to teach us that no condition is permanent. Jesus said Abraham, David etc never went to heaven. Acts2:31-34. John 3:13. Is Christ a liar? He said the dead are in the grave awaiting the resurrection ( John 5:28,29. Acts24:15. John11:11-14,20-39, Martha confirmed it,she told Jesus, "I know he (Lazarus) will rise in the resurrection on the last day." God's kingdom is a government ruled by king Jesus. Have U ever seen a government where every citizen occupied the throne? Therefore, Christ the king has 144,000 co-rulers in heaven to rule with him for 1000 years. Christ rulership would benefit millions of righteous,earthly citizens of Gods kingdom . (Daniel 2:44. 2pet3:13. Rev14:1-3. Rev 20:4,5. Matt5:3,5.). Only God chooses who goes to heaven or live forever on the forthcoming paradise earth.

OneJ:


U said "Jesus was not created. He was begotten". Primesky ,U are confused. Man is the image of God,same as Jesus is the image of the same God. He is the firstborn of creation. Colossians 1:15. Pls, quarrel with your Bible. Trinity is built on the falsified insertion of "I am" into Hebrew scriptures(Exodus 3:14. Rather, " I will become what will become.". Every Jew or Israeli knows "I am" is a fraud.) The term "I am" does not exist in Hebrew because their language has no present tense.
Animals & man have the breath of life which the Bible refers to as "spirit".(Eccl3:18-21. James2:26. Ps104:29).It's not rocket science. (the context determines the meaning. At times, the term 'spirit' can also refers to emotions of anger, anxiety or joy. eg my spirit is anxious. Its does not mean that a separate invisible entity in me is anxious. ). The story of Lazarus & rich man is a parable. It NEVER happened in real life. Its a lesson to teach us that no condition is permanent. Jesus said Abraham, David etc never went to heaven. Acts2:31-34. John 3:13. Is Christ a liar? He said the dead are in the grave awaiting the resurrection ( John 5:28,29. Acts24:15. John11:11-14,20-39, Martha confirmed it,she told Jesus, "I know he (Lazarus) will rise in the resurrection on the last day." God's kingdom is a government ruled by king Jesus. Have U ever seen a government where every citizen occupied the throne? Therefore, Christ the king has 144,000 co-rulers in heaven to rule with him for 1000 years. Christ rulership would benefit millions of righteous,earthly citizens of Gods kingdom . (Daniel 2:44. 2pet3:13. Rev14:1-3. Rev 20:4,5. Matt5:3,5.). Only God chooses who goes to heaven or live forever on the forthcoming paradise earth.

What a pity!. Who is is confused my brother?. With this mindset of yours, you can never learn. What is the meaning of begotten in the original contest of the Greek language from which that passage was translated?. Can you find out and stop these lies.

You guys twist the scriptures to suit you, and make the word of God a lie. Look at what what your version of the bible says in comparison with what other versions says in John chapter one.

John 1:1 NWT In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
- Jehovah Witness Bible

Really?!, the word was a god?. Like seriously?, is that the way it is?.

John 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.- Christian Bible

This is what you will find in almost all other version of the bible. So why is yours different?.

This is just one of those falsehood you've been taught. So much attempt to deny the diety of Jesus Christ. Your religion went as far as saying Jesus Christ is angel Michael. With all these, it becomes difficult for you to accept the truth. I will urge and beg you to do a thorough study, and know the true Jesus Christ.

To think that you will see the verdict of the Bible and still maintain your position is staggeringly shocking!. Wait, do you even read my post?. Whatever is not in your new world translation bible is fake, is that so?.

You can choose to believe whatever you believe. The only falsifiers of scriptures I have ever seen so far are from the Jehovah witnesses. You the members are not even aware what your chief slaves have done.

You guys believe that your version is the only correct version of scripture, and so even when the truth is presented to you, you will twist it and deny an obvious truth. But no matter how you twist it, know that you will never be able to undo the truth.

If you like remain on earth, but when Jesus comes, I will go with Him to heaven, that's His promise and no man nor angel can tell me otherwise and I believe. How can you be denying an open truth. Lord please have mercy!.

If you want to know about the religion you're in, follow this man on YouTube (Jwtruthministry). He is a former member of your religion, he will show you some hidden and secret things about your religion, you're not aware of. Let it not be like I said it. Go search it out yourself.

I wish you repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal saviour. Shalom.

Primesky:


You do not really understand the world you live in my dear. Look at the issue of Samuel. It's true that the devil can manipulate and deceive people with the images of the dead, that's why God forbids us from doing that
(consulting the dead) because we wouldn't know which is which. The bible says it was Samuel and you're saying it wasn't him. Read this passages below carefully.

1 Samuel 28:15 [b]And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.[/b]

The bible says it was Samuel, and Samuel even repeated what he had told Saul while he was still alive. If the bible says it was Samuel, when in fact it wasn't him, then the bible lied!, and shouldn't be trusted. But the bible can't lie!. If it wasn't the spirit of Samuel, the bible would have told us. Stop assuming. It's true the devil can deceive through such means, that's why God forbids it. But this case is clear. Again the passage you're quoting about the dead knowing nothing after death, is totally out of context. I gave you some names before, and you haven't disproved it.

Tell me about Father Abraham talking to the Richman after death?. How did he know about the lifestyle of the Richman on earth?.

Tell me about Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus during the configuration?. Where did they come from?.

Tell me about the spirits of the Saints coming out of their graves and appearing to people after the death of Jesus Christ?.


About Jesus saying he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Hmm... You misunderstand the scriptures!. Have you never read that salvation is from the jews?. As at the time Jesus made that statement, He was not yet crucified, so how can the gentiles be engrafted into the promise of God to Abraham?. Jesus came to save all mankind beginning first with the jews, but they rejected it, so he turned to the gentiles. But it was all God's plan right from the beginning. We become spiritual Israelites by believing in Christ Jesus. Jesus didn't give so much attention to the gentiles while He was still alive as much as He did to the jews because He was not yet lifted up. Remember what He said, 'if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto my self'.
Did you at all think that heaven is only for the jews or that we the gentiles are second class believers?. No my dear. Now see what Jesus said below.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Who are these many?, from where and where?. These are obviously gentiles who ordinarily are not supposed to be part of the promise. But because of Jesus, are now part of it. Remember God said to Abraham that by thy seed shall all the families of the world be blessed. Who or what is the seed of Abraham. God was clearly talking about Jesus Christ.

From the passage above, the kingdom these people will be gathered together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the kingdom of heaven!. It's very clear. So please understand the context of the scriptures. God bless you.

That's why i said HUMILITY is needed here my friend. If God condemned an act yet it is beneficial so are we to truly trust in HIM? You're sounding as if the "spirit" of the dead can help or harm the living despite the fact that God condemned contacting the spirit of the dead. Well i believe it's not Samuel,you only need thorough meditation to grasp this,the Bible said many things that we believers need to pray earnestly to unravel the sacred secrets. Take for example the Bible said Moses knew God face to face,and later said no man has seen God at anytime. Deuteronomy 34:10 and John 1:18 of course you'll start arguing if i say the spirit talking to Moses was not the Almighty God but an angel representing HIM. Genesis 22:11,12 God's word is not for those who aren't humble to learn so it is not easy to grasp.Moses and Elijah during transfiguration is to confirm to those three honesthearted and faithful Jews that Jesus is the Messiah (whose coming and activities will grant all those ancient faith men a resurrection back to life)so they should continue to listen to Him, that event did not nullify God's word at Ecclesiastes 9:4-10 This is what is called ACCURATE knowledge!

#Primesky. The Bible is a book of sacred secrets and it's only true Christians that can help you to know those secrets. Remember that before Jesus there has never been a time Israelites have to cross their boundary to preach and teach other nations God's word.Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus commissioned this work not for all Jews or Samaritans of His time but for HUMBLE ones amongst them,so it's just those few Christians that understood God's word,whereas the scriptures has been with the nation right from the time of Moses! Whenever Jesus is talking,arrogant Jews do come to debunk His teachings because Jesus often say things that ordinarily if you read from the Bible without listening to him you'll have a different picture. An example is about Enoch and Elijah,the scriptures said Enoch was taken and Elijah went to heaven,but Jesus said "no man has ascended to heaven before" John 3:13 There is no other way for stubborn Jews than to listen and learn from God's son but instead they kept arguing with Him. It was much later that even the Apostles after their anointing with the holy spirit could grasp that for anyone to enter heaven such a person MUST BE BORN AGAIN! Now God's spirit has not been poured until Jesus' sacrifice was taken to God in heaven,therefore it's impossible for any human to ascend to heaven before then! Ecclesiates 3:19-22 So if a true Christian is preaching and teaching,you'll learn about so many hidden secrets that you can't notice all by yourself while reading the scriptures except if you listen to a TRUE Christian(taught by Jesus' group to help you grasp the sacred secrets)

Riofidelio:
#Primesky. The Bible is a book of sacred secrets and it's only true Christians that can help you to know those secrets. Remember that before Jesus there has never been a time Israelites have to cross their boundary to preach and teach other nations God's word.Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus commissioned this work not for all Jews or Samaritans of His time but for HUMBLE ones amongst them,so it's just those few Christians that understood God's word,whereas the scriptures has been with the nation right from the time of Moses! Whenever Jesus is talking,arrogant Jews do come to debunk His teachings because Jesus often say things that ordinarily if you read from the Bible without listening to him you'll have a different picture. An example is about Enoch and Elijah,the scriptures said Enoch was taken and Elijah went to heaven,but Jesus said "no man has ascended to heaven before" John 3:13 There is no other way for stubborn Jews than to listen and learn from God's son but instead they kept arguing with Him. It was much later that even the Apostles after their anointing with the holy spirit could grasp that for anyone to enter heaven such a person MUST BE BORN AGAIN! Now God's spirit has not been poured until Jesus' sacrifice was taken to God in heaven,therefore it's impossible for any human to ascend to heaven before then! Ecclesiates 3:19-22 So if a true Christian is preaching and teaching,you'll learn about so many hidden secrets that you can't notice all by yourself while reading the scriptures except if you listen to a TRUE Christian(taught by Jesus' group to help you grasp the sacred secrets)

I don't know what else to say or do my dear to let you know that your position is contrary to the bible!. You said Elijah and Enoch didn't go to heaven, but the bible never said so. Look at this below.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The bible said Elijah was taken up into heaven!. Wonderful!. Is the bible lying or is Jesus Christ lying?. You're misinterpreting the word of God. Get the contest. Somebody put it rightly. Read this point below

In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

I pray the Lord will help you to understand. The bible does not contradict itself. It's just that men just assume they understand or there is a deliberate act to deceive someone else. The bible is the word of God. It has no lies or contradictions. Understand the context and applications. By the way, without the Holy Spirit guiding you, you can never truly understand it.

Please, tell me who are this special group of Jesus that teaches the secret of God's word?. Because I know that no body or group of persons can completely teach the bible without the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with a special group. The word of God is authority, yes we have pastors and teachers, but ultimately, we depend on the Holy Spirit.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Primesky:


I don't know what else to say or do my dear to let you know that your position is contrary to the bible!. You said Elijah and Enoch didn't go to heaven, but the bible never said so. Look at this below.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The bible said Elijah was taken up into heaven!. Wonderful!. Is the bible lying or is Jesus Christ lying?. You're misinterpreting the word of God. Get the contest. Somebody put it rightly. Read this point below

In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

I pray the Lord will help you to understand. The bible does not contradict itself. It's just that men just assume they understand or there is a deliberate act to deceive someone else. The bible is the word of God. It has no lies or contradictions. Understand the context and applications. By the way, without the Holy Spirit guiding you, you can never truly understand it.

Please, tell me who are this special group of Jesus that teaches the secret of God's word?. Because I know that no body or group of persons can completely teach the bible without the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with a special group. The word of God is authority, yes we have pastors and teachers, but ultimately, we depend on the Holy Spirit.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Hmmmmmmmm because you want to argue you're blinding yourself to the truth. Jesus said it plainly that NO MAN has gone to heaven before His arrival please it's NOT me who said that my friend,Jesus as in JESUS did! I only tried to explain what He meant, the Bible is clear on this issue that flesh and blood can't go to heaven because God didn't make man for heavenly life,then the case of been born again,then the case of been tranformed to spirit,then John(the baptist)is not one of them while all faithful men prior to John are not privileged to be in that group,they're going to rule with Jesus who taught them how to rule,the Apostles are the foundation of the city because going to heaven starts from them. But you blocked your heart to all these verses just to keep arguing,well it's ok my friend after enough evidence to establish facts we're not to continue arguing uneccesarily goodbye! Philippians 2:14 1Timothy 6:4

Fredmatic:
You need the help of the holy ghost to understand the deep things of God, is not sth u go to theological school or mere reading it.

Jesus is God the son not God the father and both are equal in status, but Jesus don't count on it( just like twins childrend that you can hardly differentiate).

Also while on earth he made it clear to us as a father and son relationship, which are clear in all the example he gave and demonstrated

You think you know deep things, but you are very ignorant. God gave Jesus the authority to legislate and govern on his behalf, but it does not mean Jesus and God are equal. Jesus obeys God as His Superior. This is what the bible teaches.

1 cor 15:27-28
“God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

Primesky:


What a pity!. Who is is confused my brother?. With this mindset of yours, you can never learn. What is the meaning of begotten in the original contest of the Greek language from which that passage was translated?. Can you find out and stop these lies.

You guys twist the scriptures to suit you, and make the word of God a lie. Look at what what your version of the bible says in comparison with what other versions says in John chapter one.

John 1:1 NWT In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
- Jehovah Witness Bible

Really?!, the word was a god?. Like seriously?, is that the way it is?.

John 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.- Christian Bible

This is what you will find in almost all other version of the bible. So why is yours different?.

This is just one of those falsehood you've been taught. So much attempt to deny the diety of Jesus Christ. Your religion went as far as saying Jesus Christ is angel Michael. With all these, it becomes difficult for you to accept the truth. I will urge and beg you to do a thorough study, and know the true Jesus Christ.

To think that you will see the verdict of the Bible and still maintain your position is staggeringly shocking!. Wait, do you even read my post?. Whatever is not in your new world translation bible is fake, is that so?.

You can choose to believe whatever you believe. The only falsifiers of scriptures I have ever seen so far are from the Jehovah witnesses. You the members are not even aware what your chief slaves have done.

You guys believe that your version is the only correct version of scripture, and so even when the truth is presented to you, you will twist it and deny an obvious truth. But no matter how you twist it, know that you will never be able to undo the truth.

If you like remain on earth, but when Jesus comes, I will go with Him to heaven, that's His promise and no man nor angel can tell me otherwise and I believe. How can you be denying an open truth. Lord please have mercy!.

If you want to know about the religion you're in, follow this man on YouTube (Jwtruthministry). He is a former member of your religion, he will show you some hidden and secret things about your religion, you're not aware of. Let it not be like I said it. Go search it out yourself.

I wish you repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal saviour. Shalom.

Primesky, there are over 13 different Bible translations ( including one of the oldest Bible known to man, the 2nd Century Sahidic Coptic Bible) which reads : " a god was the word" or "the word was a god". They followed what's in the Greek manuscript.

Please find & read this Thread "Is the Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?".

Acts 28:6 & John 1:1 (KJV) are very similar in Greek grammar & in the manuscript "god" is there in small letters. Una agree say na "a god" in Acts28:6 as una see am for the manuscript but when una see John 1:1 ,una come change small letter "god" wey dey manuscript to big letter "God" wey no dey manuscript.
Primesky, Is that not fraudulent?
Primesky, answer this question with your church mind: in English does "god" & "God" have the same meaning?
Una dey forge 1John5:7 & 1tim 3:16 (KJV) ,una go forge "Godhead" put for KJV where as the older manuscripts says "divine". Una still forge "I am" put for Hebrew scriptures where as "I am" no dey any Hebrew scripture manuscript. Trinity is a confirmed fallacy. Una no dey tire to twist God's word to defend una lie lie. Jesus is the son of God. No two ways about it.

That ex-JW wey U dey follow up & down online, U dey fear to ask am to tell U why JW drive am komot ? He is an unrepentant wrongdoer. I know him type. No atom of truth dey dia mouth.



OneJ Replies :
Primesky, U said "Are these things you know for yourself or they are the things you were told? ....That explains why you don't believe the bible. It is natural that you would believe what your religion (Jehovah's witness or watchtower) tells you...."
Plus other lie lie U post for this thread.
I just dey pity U !!
These are some of the references U can research & investigate . Just take your time. Read everything thoroughly. Then ,come back here to tell Nairalanders whether na JWs write am & make U refute these evidences presented here with solid proof. Be ready to check & cross check different Bible translations.
(1) Source : john 1:1 wikipedia. (Pls Google it & open the first link & read everything,plus endnotes).

(2) Pls Google "An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruption "

(3) Pls Google "Exodus 3:14 (chabad.org). Truth no dey hide but U must be ready to search for it yourself. Humility is the key. Shalom.

OneJ:


Primesky, there are over 13 different Bible translations ( including one of the oldest Bible known to man, the 2nd Century Sahidic Coptic Bible) which reads : " a god was the word" or "the word was a god". They followed what's in the Greek manuscript.

Please find & read this Thread "Is the Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?".

Acts 28:6 & John 1:1 (KJV) are very similar in Greek grammar & in the manuscript "god" is there in small letters. Una agree say na "a god" in Acts28:6 as una see am for the manuscript but when una see John 1:1 ,una come change small letter "god" wey dey manuscript to big letter "God" wey no dey manuscript.
Primesky, Is that not fraudulent?
Primesky, answer this question with your church mind: in English does "god" & "God" have the same meaning?
Una dey forge 1John5:7 & 1tim 3:16 (KJV) ,una go forge "Godhead" put for KJV where as the older manuscripts says "divine". Una still forge "I am" put for Hebrew scriptures where as "I am" no dey any Hebrew scripture manuscript. Trinity is a confirmed fallacy. Una no dey tire to twist God's word to defend una lie lie. Jesus is the son of God. No two ways about it.

That ex-JW wey U dey follow up & down online, U dey fear to ask am to tell U why JW drive am komot ? He is an unrepentant wrongdoer. I know him type. No atom of truth dey dia mouth.

Hmm... Very interesting!. Are these things you know for yourself or are they the things you were told?.

Well, the simple truth is, you're not a Christian!. That explains why you don't believe the bible. It is natural that you would believe what your religion (Jehovah witnesses or watch tower ) tells you.

But you need to do a thorough research now about what you think is truth, so that you don't realise the truth too late. Saying Jesus is the son of God does not make you an absolute believer in Him.

Now because someone among you have seen the lies and deceptions you guys have been teaching for years, and decided to leave, he is now an unrepentant wrongdoer?. I only wish many persons will see this discussions and see the truth for themselves.

The truth remains that the top leaders and founders of the New world Translation bible translated it to suit their doctrine and believe, which is absolutely contrary to the truth of God's word.

Once again my dear, with love and respect, I ask you to do a thorough research yourself and know the real Jesus Christ. Shalom.

Riofidelio:
Hmmmmmmmm because you want to argue you're blinding yourself to the truth. Jesus said it plainly that NO MAN has gone to heaven before His arrival please it's NOT me who said that my friend,Jesus as in JESUS did! I only tried to explain what He meant, the Bible is clear on this issue that flesh and blood can't go to heaven because God didn't make man for heavenly life,then the case of been born again,then the case of been tranformed to spirit,then John(the baptist)is not one of them while all faithful men prior to John are not privileged to be in that group,they're going to rule with Jesus who taught them how to rule,the Apostles are the foundation of the city because going to heaven starts from them. But you blocked your heart to all these verses just to keep arguing,well it's ok my friend after enough evidence to establish facts we're not to continue arguing uneccesarily goodbye! Philippians 2:14 1Timothy 6:4

What on earth?!. Why have you decided to make the bible a lie!.

The truth here is that you're not a Christian, so there's no way we can agree on these points.

All the scriptures I gave to you were not enough for you, instead you misquote, misinterprete and make the bible a lie. By pointing those things in the bible and claiming that they are not so, you have made the word of God a lie. Let God be true and every man a liar!.

Watch Tower modified the scriptures to suit itself by misinterpreting the scriptures. Who and who translated your version of scriptures?. How much of the Greek language and its application do they know. These questions are simple but very salient.

Wake up my brother, Let's not defend religion, instead let's uphold the word of God in truth.

Primesky:


I will strongly disagree with you dear. Plants have only bodies. Animals have bodies and souls. Man is higher, he has body, soul and his own spirit, which is different from the Spirit of life which gives him life.

Man is primarily a Spirit who has a soul and dwells in a body. Don't get confused please.

You're confusing the spirit of God and man, with the spirit of life. Let's look at the application.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul, like wise animal souls. It is the spirit of life.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.


Jesus was not created, He was begotten!. From your point of view, I see you as one of those who don't believe in the afterlife, am I correct?.

Isaac was begotten son too , I guess he isnt a creation


Pastor primesky , How exactly was Jesus begotten... By sexual inter course like Isaac or by Creation ?

Primesky:


Oh wow, interesting!. So in a bid to discredit me, you removed breath and put spirit, hahaha... Oh sorry, maybe there's another version of bible you're using. But I've tried to see. This is what I found below.

Psalms 104:29- KJV. Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, [/b]they die, and return to their dust.

Psalm 104 Vs 29 (NIV) When you hide your face,
they are terrified;
[b]when you take away their breath,
they die and return to the dust.

Psalm 104 :29 7(NLT) But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust.

Psalm 104:29 (Amp) You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their breath, they die And return to their dust.

Are you going to now tell me spirit and breath are the same?. Another failed attempt at denying trinity


For your information, animals don't have both souls and spirits as men do because they were not created in the image of God. , They have souls but not spirit. , Only man has both body, soul and spirit. So stop trying so hard to hide the truth by quoting what I don't know.

Why are you contradicting yourself ?


Lie 1 above: animals don't have spirit.

primesky
Animals have body and souls. They however do not have spirit like man does. What they have is the spirit of life, which gives them life!. Please understand the difference.

Lie 2: They have spirit but not like that of man.

I guess same Ruach is not used for both

Provide the proof for this latest lie ?

OneJ:


Primesky, there are over 13 different Bible translations ( including one of the oldest Bible known to man, the 2nd Century Sahidic Coptic Bible) which reads : " a god was the word" or "the word was a god". They followed what's in the Greek manuscript.

Please find & read this Thread "Is the Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?".

Acts 28:6 & John 1:1 (KJV) are very similar in Greek grammar & in the manuscript "god" is there in small letters. Una agree say na "a god" in Acts28:6 as una see am for the manuscript but when una see John 1:1 ,una come change small letter "god" wey dey manuscript to big letter "God" wey no dey manuscript.
Primesky, Is that not fraudulent?
Primesky, answer this question with your church mind: in English does "god" & "God" have the same meaning?
Una dey forge 1John5:7 & 1tim 3:16 (KJV) ,una go forge "Godhead" put for KJV where as the older manuscripts says "divine". Una still forge "I am" put for Hebrew scriptures where as "I am" no dey any Hebrew scripture manuscript. Trinity is a confirmed fallacy. Una no dey tire to twist God's word to defend una lie lie. Jesus is the son of God. No two ways about it.

That ex-JW wey U dey follow up & down online, U dey fear to ask am to tell U why JW drive am komot ? He is an unrepentant wrongdoer. I know him type. No atom of truth dey dia mouth.


Primesky, U said "Are these things you know for yourself or they are the things you were told? ....That explains why you don't believe the bible. It is natural that you would believe what your religion (Jehovah's witness or watchtower) tells you...."
Plus other lie lie U post for this thread.
I just dey pity U !!
These are some of the references U can research & investigate . Just take your time. Read everything thoroughly. Then ,come back here to tell Nairalanders whether na JWs write am & make U refute these evidences presented here with solid proof. Be ready to check & cross check different Bible translations.
(1) Source : john 1:1 wikipedia. (Pls Google it & open the first link & read everything,plus endnotes).

(2) Pls Google "An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruption "

(3) Pls Google "Exodus 3:14 (chabad.org)" Truth no dey hide but U must be ready to search for it yourself. Humility is the key. Shalom.

Primesky, this is for your attention. Pls, check & research the links above. Shalom.

Prime sky said "what is the meaning of begotten in the original context of the Greek language....?"
The Greek word for begotten is monogenes. The Greek meaning is often applied to mean "one of a kind, one & only, only legitimate child or special child.
The word is used in Hebrew 11:17-19 to describe Isaac, the son of Abraham" .
In a nutshell mono means 'only one' while 'genes' means "born of","produced by".
My question for U: Abraham & Isaac, is theirs a relationship of two equal personalities (as una dey claim), or is it a Father & son relationship ,like Christ & his Father? The word 'begotten' is strictly applied to Father & son relationships. Both of them are never equal. ( John14:28, 1 Cor 11:3). Primesky, any how U wan twist am, U go expose Trinity as falsehood.
Source: monogenes (wikipedia)

OneJ:
Prime sky said "what is the meaning of begotten in the original context of the Greek language....?"
The Greek word for begotten is monogenes. The Greek meaning is often applied to mean "one of a kind, one & only, only legitimate child or special child.
The word is used in Hebrew 11:17-19 to describe Isaac, the son of Abraham" .
In a nutshell mono means 'only one' while 'genes' means "born of","produced by".
My question for U: Abraham & Isaac, is theirs a relationship of two equal personalities (as una dey
claim), or is it a Father & son relationship ,like Christ & his Father? The word 'begotten' is strictly applied to Father & son relationships. Both of them are never equal. ( John14:28, 1 Cor 11:3). Primesky, any how U wan twist am, U go expose Trinity as falsehood.
Source: monogenes (wikipedia)

Nice one from you. So can Abraham then say Isaac was created?. Let's leave the equal first we will come back to that. Can you say in the relationship between Abraham and Isaac, that Isaac was created by Abraham?.

If the bible calls the angels sons of God and then calls Jesus 'the only begotten Son, can you still say He was created or He is in the same class as the angels?.

I gave you an example using water, and I clearly told you that just the same way as water exist in three states, with liquid water being the prime head and yet they (water, vapour and ice) are one and the same! Again, I told you that you as a person, you're a trinity; because you are a spirit having a soul and dwelling in a body. This you have clearly denied, refused and misinterpreted. What more can be done for you now?.

In the trinity God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one and the same, from one source, existing in three distinct bodies. In this Godhead head, God the Father is the Supreme.

Everything the devils are doing in like manner is simply copying what has been, what they've seen, however they do it to attribute worship to themselves. The devil always wants to be like God but he can't!. God has demonstrated His nature in us, by making us a trinity. Man is the only known creation of God having body, soul and spirit, three distinct personalities in one, yet the spirit of man is the Supreme head. You guys should stop trying so hard to deny the diety of Jesus Christ.

Primesky:


Nice one from you. So can Abraham then say Isaac was created?. Let's leave the equal first we will come back to that. Can you say in the relationship between Abraham and Isaac, that Isaac was created by Abraham?.

If the bible calls the angels sons of God and then calls Jesus 'the only begotten Son, can you still say He was created or He is in the same class as the angels?.

Isaac was only begotten son too. He was made just like other sons. So that logic is useless, because its now clear Jesus was made just as other Sons

Now let me answer your question regarding if Abraham created Isaac . Abraham the Father of Isaac himself is a Creation so the glory of bringing forth Isaac must go to God who made him and gave him the necessary gene to make Isaac.

Abraham made Isaac and all other sons by sexual intercourse.



Is the Father of Jesus a Creation too ?

We now establish that the only begotten son is made just as every other son, clearly then the Logical question now is, How did God produce Jesus and other sons and thus become their FATHER?

That's the question you failed to answer

I gave you an example using water, and I clearly told you that just the same way as water exist in three states, with liquid water being the prime head and yet they (water, vapour and ice) are one and the same! Again, I told you that you as a person, you're a trinity; because you are a spirit having a soul and dwelling in a body. This you have clearly denied, refused and misinterpreted. What more can be done for you now?.

In the trinity God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one and the same, from one source, existing in three distinct bodies. In this Godhead head, God the Father is the Supreme.

Everything the devils are doing in like manner is simply copying what has been, what they've seen, however they do it to attribute worship to themselves. The devil always wants to be like God but he can't!. God has demonstrated His nature in us, by making us a trinity. Man is the only known creation of God having body, soul and spirit, three distinct personalities in one, yet the spirit of man is the Supreme head. You guys should stop trying so hard to deny the diety of Jesus Christ.

Stop this analysis already. It has been proved beyond fount that animals have spirit and soul too . which you later acknowledged when you say they have the spirit of life .

So your analogy can only make sense if you admit that animals are also in Gods image .

Can you now see how you sound ?

OneJ:

Primesky, this is for your attention. Pls, check & research the links above. Shalom.

Hahaha... OneJ!, Wikipedia is your proof?.very well I have read that page and nothing different from what we are doing or saying here. Different religions and creed claiming to have the correct version. The ultimate question is, how was it originally in the Greek text from which it was translated?. If I start showing you links, I hope you can read them?. It seems you have enough time so let's go. Please anybody else reading this conversation and wondering what to believe come along, go through this links as well.

1. http://www.ukapologetics.net/08/john11.htm.

My question to you is, if the Original Greek language does not have the 'a' in it, why add it?. How would anybody conclusively say this is what they mean. Translate the bible the way it is in the original text.

2. The original Greek text without any addition and translated is clear and easier to understand even in English.

http://biblehub.com/text/john/1-1.htm

Like someone rightly said:

The Gospel of John, as well as the rest of the bible teaches us that there is only one God. If the text of john 1:1 were to be interpreted "a god" that would imply either henotheism or polytheism; this would be inconsistent. [Not only that but if Jesus were "a god" and not God then wouldn't honoring him in any way would be in direct violation of the second commandment.]

John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation. It is not saying that "a god was the word." That wouldn't make sense. Let me break it down into three statements.

1. "In beginning was the word..."
(en arche en ho logos)
A very simple statement that the Word was in the beginning.
2. "and the word was with the God..."
(kai ho logos en pros ton theon)
This same Word was with God.
3. "and God was the word." -- Properly translated as "and the Word was God."
(kai theos en ho logos)
This same Word was God.

Regarding statement 3 above, the correct English translation is "...and the Word was God," not "and God was the word." This is because if there is only one definite article ("ho"="the" in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative ("subject" form ("theos" and "logos", then the noun with the definite article ("ho"="the" is the subject. In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause. Therefore, "...the Word was God" is the correct translation, not "God was the Word."1 But this does not negate the idea that John is speaking of only one God, not two, even though the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus is "a god," or the "mighty god" as was addressed above.

George

Quoting the sahidic Coptic bible is neither here nor there because they too believe in what you believe about Jesus is that the proof then?. Do we expect them to also translate like us?. The argument and fight against the deity of Jesus Christ started right when He was still here on earth, so no big deal. The fact is, why do you have to add to the original text, that's what the Coptic did too because their language supports it.

Primesky:


Hahaha... OneJ!, Wikipedia is your proof?.very well I have read that page and nothing different from what we are doing or saying here. Different religions and creed claiming to have the correct version. The ultimate question is, how was it originally in the Greek text from which it was translated?. If I start showing you links, I hope you can read them?. It seems you have enough time so let's go. Please anybody else reading this conversation and wondering what to believe come along, go through this links as well.

1. http://www.ukapologetics.net/08/john11.htm.


My question to you is, if the Original Greek language does not have the 'a' in it, why add it?. How would anybody conclusively say this is what they mean. Translate the bible the way it is in the original text.

2.

Stop telling lies. you didn't read the Wikipedia page

If you do, you won't be asking that question at bold

The Wikipedia page says:



The rendering as "a god" is justified by some non-Trinitarians by comparing it with Acts 28:6 which has a similar grammatical construction'[35] "The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead; but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god. "[Ac. 28:6 NIV].


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1


That page went ahead to include many bible versions that added ' a ' at John 1 vs 1.

So until you are able to defend why " a " was added at Act 28 vs 6. Your opinion lacks merit

Peacefullove:



Stop telling lies. you didn't read the Wikipedia page

If you do, you won't be asking that question at bold

The Wikipedia page says:



The rendering as "a god" is justified by some non-Trinitarians by comparing it with Acts 28:6 which has a similar grammatical construction'[35] "The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead; but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god. "[Ac. 28:6 NIV].


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1


That page went ahead to include many bible versions that added ' a ' at John 1 vs 1.

So until you are able to defend why " a " was added at Act 28 vs 6. Your opinion lacks merit

Mr OneJ stop twisting the truth here please. The original Greek text doesn't have that article 'a' in it. Different languages and translators add it to make sense in there own language but it destroys the meaning and intent. Do you ever use context in your speech and wrighting?. You're saying because acts 28 vs 6 has the same grammatical construct, therefore it must be the same thing. But clearly they not!.

Apart from the JWs, there are other religions which do not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God let alone God. So having other interpretation and version makes no sense to me. I had thought you guys were Christians before but I was wrong. A totally different religion built on lies and deceit and you aren't even aware of it. I will not argue with you like this anymore since I now know what you guys do and what you represent. I have always had a false knowledge of JWs. I know you guys and not telling the absolute truth but not like I have seen. You can twist and lie to defend your position.

I will hence forth be posting the lies and deceit of this cult. Not for hatred or anything like that, but for your own benefit. Some of you don't even know what you are into.

From those who have been with you and those who have extensive research of your falsehood. I wish you would be humble enough to read the materials.

For the fact that my own words and point here are being deliberately twisted and misinterpreted means we will never make head way. I want you guys to disprove the lies your religion teaches you. Please be honest. Thank you.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5719164060696576/jehovahs-witnesses-taught-lie-but-then-lie-about-lying

The history of the Jehovah's Witnesses from Charles Taze Russell on is filled with a long list of failed false prophecies, changed doctrines and ruined lives! Shocking as it may be to Jehovah's Witnesses, in 1939 (Watchtower, 11-15-1939, p.339) they were taught God "commands all to worship Christ Jesus" and God grants salvation "only to those who obey him." That made the "worship of Christ Jesus" necessary for "salvation" in 1939! Today worship of Jesus, though scriptural, is considered idolatry. Consequently, that means the 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses were actually idolaters and didn't go to heaven as taught, but instead to the lake of fire (Rev. 21:.

Please why did your organization change this along the way?.

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm

Cc. Peacefullove, oneJ, Reofidelio

The sect known as Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) began with Charles Taze Russell in the 1870’s. Russell was raised a Presbyterian, then joined the Congregational church, and was finally influenced by Adventist teachings. By his own admission, he had a hard time accepting the existence of hell. He sought out the Bible, and as his "studies" continued, he systematically began to reject the major doctrines of historic Christianity. He ultimately established his own belief system, and in 1879 he started publishing a magazine to promote his beliefs. This magazine was the precursor to today’s Watchtower (WT) magazine, by which Jehovah’s Witnesses are typically known.

In this tract we will examine five topics relating to Russell, the JWs, and their parent organization, the Watch Tower Society (WTS). We will show that the beliefs of JWs are unscriptural, and that both Russell and the WTS are completely unreliable as spiritual guides.

[/color]Is the Watch Tower Reliable?

In 1910 Russell wrote, "If anyone lays the Scripture Studies [short for a 7-volume WTS publication entitled Studies in the Scriptures, hereafter abbreviated as Studies] aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years—if he lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood the Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he will be in the light at the end of two years . . . " (WT Reprints, 9-15-1910, 4685). The WTS maintains that it is God’s reliable mouthpiece to the nations, and it claims to be God’s inspired prophet (WT, 4-1-1972, 197)—and yet its prophecies have repeatedly proven to be false. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the WTS is to be rejected as a false prophet.

[color=#006600] Does it mean that only the watch tower can speak for God?.

Among other things, the WTS predicted the following:

1889 "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).

1891 "With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).

1894 "The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).

1897 "Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD" (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
Really?, where's He?!

1916 "The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).

1917 "Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord’s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
1918 "Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).

1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
1923 "1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).

1925 "The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).

1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).

1939 "The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead" (Salvation, 361).

1941 "Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).

1946 "Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).

1966 "Six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).

1968 "The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

Besides false prophesies, the WTS has misled its members through countless changes in doctrine and practice:

"To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT, 7-1879, 7-. The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT, 6-1-1952, 338).

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT 8-1-1965, 479). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT 6-1-1988, 31). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Live Forever, early ed., 179). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Live Forever, later ed., 179). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 985). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! 273).

"There could be nothing against our consciences in going into the army" (WT, 4-15-1903, 120). Due to conscience, Jehovah’s Witnesses must refuse military service (WT, 2-1-1951, 73).

"We may as well join in with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event [Christmas] . . . " (WT Reprints, 12-1-1904, 3468). "Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah . . . What is their source? . . . Satan the devil" (WT, 12-15-1983, 7).

"Everyone in America should take pleasure in displaying the American flag" (WT Reprints, 5-15-1917, 6068). The flag is "an idolatrous symbol" (Awake!, 9-8-71, 14).

A much longer list of such contradictions and doctrinal twists by the WTS could be formed, but this suffices to remove any reason one might have to believe that "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant scriptural counsel to his people . . . " (WT, 5-1-1964, 277). If that is the case, who is to say what will be taught tomorrow?

Cc. Can OneJ, Reofidelio and peacefullove tell us what is happening, why the confusion?.