lagcity:

thanks a lot ezeuche, i threw you a bait and you caught it. this was necessary because i knew you wouldn't be upfront if i brought up the meddling in western politics at first. the North didn't use Akintola, bello's NPC and Zik's NCNC used akintola as fifth column. Bello and Zik were very scared of AG and its radical members. thus they decided to throw a wrench in the AG. so Zik and bello's meddling in the politics of the west caused the wild wild west. if they had just minded their business, there wouldn't be wild wild west. scholars have already concluded on this issue that NCNC and NPC were very strange bed fellows: they weren't really seeing eye to eye and it was a marriage of convenience. these two parties joined together all because of fear of the AG. npc saw ncnc as the lesser evil and vice versa. please ezeuche, don't take my word for it. be intellectually honest enough to ask ppl who actually know this stuff. when i get the time, i'll give you a list of professors from the mid-west and eastern region who told it like it is. no sentiments please. i still have my question for you; was coup and unnecessary bloodshed the perfect solution to the wild wild west?

houvest:

@jmaine. Many stories have been told to justify the killing off 600,000 innocent men women and children in cold blood. Many will still be told. Pray how come not one not even one of the calendars in your granny's story survived for us to see. You are talking of a printed document not an oral evidence. Did you see any of those pictures? Has any person on nl seen one both old and young? How come all the calendars miraculously disappeared the same way they appeared. All these granny stories cannot heal the wound on the conscience of the nation as well as all the rationalisations about the rightness of the scale of the volume of blood poured away in the name vengeance,  Nuff said.  

Don't get too emotional bro . . . No one is justifying any killings . . but the causes are easily discernible . . .I always assumed that . . . all this drawings on calenders to depict recent happenings was a recent trend to reporting and making jest of local events e.g the Otokoto ritual saga of the mid 90s, The bakassi vigilante group, the killing of the notorious criminal called Derico e.t.c  . .  but her story revealed to me that craft have been in existence as far back before the civil war. . so the tradition continues   . . .I might wish to inform you what led to her giving us this story which happened this year  . . .

After GEJ trounced Atiku . . there was this funny calender depicting how Atiku was defeated during the PDP presidential primaries .  . .My granny( maternal) runs a guest house . .  So a staff of ours . . bought one of those and hung it in the bar section and we the young lads saw nothing with it . . we jokingly quipped of the presence of that drawings to her and she flew into rage . .that it should be removed . . . we were wondering why this sudden rage filled with caution, since she bluntly supported GEJ all through. And we were wondering what was really the problem . . she told us it could invite problems and we still insisted we saw nothing wrong with it . . . She now gave us a recount that it was one of such acts that culminated into the violence that resulted into the civil war and she was adamant . . for the first time we saw a woman relieving the fears and regrets of the episode during those trying times . . It might interest you to know that she is Efik who resided in the Eastern region of that era. . .

You need printed evidence but you forgot most of the printed evidence it's still someone else story subjective to the story teller . . . We all chose what we want to believe ,as evident already . .  

houvest:

@negro. My discussion with katsumoto here has transcended that pedantic level. Please cue in to what we are discussing or just read and not contribute. If you want to start a chicken an egg session, please refer to others who may even take you to genesis 1 or much later to 1914 or even to 1960 or 63 wherever it pleases them. But if you want to participate intelligently in this discussion, why not continue from where we are now instead of asking me whether the chicken came before the egg or the other way. round. Hope you understand the parable . No offences intended.

Katsumoto:

Actually it is relevant. Balewa, Bello, and Awo didn't want Nigeria. Zik was the person that wanted Nigeria at all cost; even voting against including a secession clause being inserted in the constitution in 1957. Zik had strong motive for supporting an Igbo coup on the basis that he lost out in the contraption that he helped to create and foister on others. He lost out in the power play with Balewa. Secondly, after assisting Akintola to oust Awo in the West, Akintola allied with Bello instead of with Zik.

Katsumoto:

Actually it is relevant. Balewa, Bello, and Awo didn't want Nigeria. Zik was the person that wanted Nigeria at all cost; even voting against including a secession clause being inserted in the constitution in 1957. Zik had strong motive for supporting an Igbo coup on the basis that he lost out in the contraption that he helped to create and foister on others. He lost out in the power play with Balewa. Secondly, after assisting Akintola to oust Awo in the West, Akintola allied with Bello instead of with Zik.

houvest:

@jmaine. Even if your granny was igbo does not matter. The morale of my post is for you to stop believing every my grammy story. Ask for a little evidence.

I should stop believing every story accepted, but i will believe this . . .considering the emotional attachment that went into her recount and it was[b] spontaneous .[/b] . . Like i said , the printable evidence is someone else stories subject to the originator . . .a reason why claims are being debunked currently on this thread  . . . Do not take it too personal bruv . . . and the moral import of your post is understood  . .

ndu_chucks:

The non points made by houvest are too similar and in many cases identical to those made by his intellectual superior, Dede1 that I am beginning to be suspicious.  You people must be getting your information from the same source.

I smell Bros Dede up in here! Apart from moi, only Dede1 one can hold an arguement with Katzumoto on the civil war, and end up without being badly bruised. I submit that I am the only one tough enough to put that Katz of a guy in his place. I thrash him regularly.  

houvest:

@katsumoto. Your conspiracy theory about Zik being the coup master mind is actually laughable. The man must have been a genius to actually do that and get away with it. Not only that most of the honours he got from Nigeria has been from the northern military goons. Who after seeing all the intelligence reports went ahead to make him the most immortalised nigerian. Sorry pal. You can do better than that. I'm actually laughing away at such a theory.

ndu_chucks:

The non points made by houvest are too similar and in many cases identical to those made by his intellectual superior, Dede1 that I am beginning to be suspicious.  You people must be getting your information from the same source.

I smell Bros Dede up in here! Apart from moi, only Dede1 one can hold an arguement with Katzumoto on the civil war, and end up without being badly bruised. I submit that I am the only one tough enough to put that Katz of a guy in his place. I thrash him regularly.  

As in January, the coup did not take off in the east or mid-west (where no troops were stationed). However, Lt-Col Murtala Muhammed repeatedly sent signals for northern soldiers in Enugu to complete the coup in the Eastern region. Some northern officers attempted to break into the Enugu armoury but were overpowered. The failure of the coup in the east created a stalemate [/b]similar to the one that existed in January 1966 when Nzeogwu was in control of the north, while Ironsi had the south. [b]This time, the counter-coup had succeeded in every region other than the east. The desire of the northern officers to extend the coup to the east led to the civil war, and the war itself may be regarded as a continuation of that coup. Only in January 1970 did northern troops gain control of the east (and by extension the whole of Nigeria) and finish the counter-coup after a four year stalemate.

RoadStar:

hmmm Interesting insight !

Negro_Ntns:

Well, I'm sure few months down this issue will be revisited with a new post.

It is clear to us in West that a coalition of the unwilling is not the way forward in our aspirations. It never was, but thanks to Britain.

RoadStar:

I believe the same feeling that lead to the counter-coup is begining to play up again.
Fear of southern domination.
The whole boko haram debacle seems to be a sheilded uprising by the north.

Katsumoto:

You can count on it and if I have the time, I will be there.  

Chyz*:

Best believe i will be there as well. . . .

EzeUche:

Katsumoto you always try to make the Igbo look like they are the bad guys in this situation. Even though the counter-coup was more brutal than the first coup which targeted people within leadership positions. You give a pass to those who committed heinous acts of brutality with RELIGIOUS undertones to it. Shame on you! Do you support the pogroms that occurred after the counter-coup by you giving a pass to the Northerners?

Your history of events is filled with revisionism. That it places the blame solely on the Ndigbo. With your generalized statements that is nothing but pure BS.

Chyz*:

Best believe i will be there as well. . . .

Ileke-IdI:

If only your presence mattered.  

EzeUche:

Katsumoto you always try to make the Igbo look like they are the bad guys in this situation. Even though the counter-coup was more brutal than the first coup which targeted people within leadership positions. You give a pass to those who committed heinous acts of brutality with RELIGIOUS undertones to it. Shame on you! Do you support the pogroms that occurred after the counter-coup by you giving a pass to the Northerners?

Your history of events is filled with revisionism. That it places the blame solely on the Ndigbo. With your generalized statements that is nothing but pure BS.

alj harem:

please who should be blamed for the civil war?

answer objectivly and do not insult

Katsumoto:

Why don't you provide a rebuttal to the facts and analyses that I presented instead of resorting to an unnecessary and emotional outburst. The facts are on this thread; what is your position?

If you are not satisfied, you can conclude that I am a Northern apologist.

EzeUche:

Of course Nigeria should be blamed for the Civil War, by invading the Eastern Region. That invasion was an act of war by any accounts. If a nation cannot protect its citizens, then the citizens have a right to declare their own nation.