Ileke-IdI:

Th source you provided does not show anybody complaining about this program. . . . and who is complaining on THIS current thread?

It's a GREAT idea. . . . but why waste money to learn about what you can in your own country? What "Positivity" does S.A or any other African country Govt have that can be taught to these children?

Honestly question to YOU: What govt policy does S.A have that can help Nigeria's Govt?
The purpose of this program is for the Nigerian Youths to learn about politics, to learn FROM current politicians so that they can be better educated about the policies of Governance.


ANYWAZ. . . . You've yet to answer KoboJ's question. I'll like the answer to this myself.

E no go hansa! He is busy seeing nonexistent ghosts and gremlins attacking his righteous position.

Hypocrisy Hippocristy na disease name be that!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

KoboJ,

If you dont mind me asking, what's your take on this issue?

I'm really confused by babapupa's comments to your posts.

lol . . . you know me and how I feel our government should spend the little money we have judiciously.

I am not certain what this training is for so I cannot comment extensively on it. It could be for some expert level training or some sort, for which case, I am not against, but yeah, if it is just for exposure to other cultures, then I say government should spend that money on educating our people on cultures here at home first, before we start going over to Japan, South Africa, or France to learn of their culture and their take on leadership.

Imagine the gain we would have if our public school programs also helped expose and educate our kids on other cultures right there in the country and why it is necessary for them to RESPECT the culture of others. We could raise a generation more tolerant in most all ways than the last, and the current.

Ileke-IdI:

Th source you provided does not show anybody complaining about this program. . . . and who is complaining on THIS current thread?

It's a GREAT idea. . . . but why waste money to learn about what you can in your own country? What "Positivity" does S.A or any other African country Govt have that can be taught to these children?

Honestly question to YOU: What govt policy does S.A have that can help Nigeria's Govt?
The purpose of this program is for the Nigerian Youths to learn about politics, to learn FROM current politicians so that they can be better educated about the policies of Governance.


ANYWAZ. . . . You've yet to answer KoboJ's question. I'll like the answer to this myself.

The point here is the fact that it doesn't matter where, people will complain. I'm not sure if this a reading and compression problem, they didn't send them  to SA to learn about SA. Have you asked yourself why other countries send their military folks to Nigeria for military training? Is it your opinion that they send them to Nigeria to learn about Nigeria and not about military training?


I don't get some of you I swear,

babapupa:


How many governors are letting kids take over their seat for one day and participate in council and executive meetings?

What is the big deal in that?. Shiot, their kids sit on their bench all the time. How did that change the price of amala?

Kobojunkie:

Imagine the gain we would have if our public school programs also helped expose and educate our kids on other cultures right there in the country and why it is necessary for them to RESPECT the culture of others. We could raise a generation more tolerant in most all ways than the last, and the current.

Now that is a very vital point!

babapupa:

The point here is the fact that it doesn't matter where, people will complain. I'm not sure if this a reading and compression problem, they didn't send them  to SA to learn about SA. Have you asked yourself why other countries send their military folks to Nigeria for military training? Is it your opinion that they send them to Nigeria to learn about Nigeria and not about military training?

I don't get some of you I swear,

Is alausa now a military camp?
Anyway, the reason other countries send their soldiers here to train is because our army is simply better than theirs. If you send your kids to SA to learn leadership, you are telling them that SA is better than Nigeria. I wouldn't be surprised if these kids grow up only to call for South Africa to please come colonise their state or country.

Kobojunkie:

lol . . . you know me and how I feel our government should spend the little money we have judiciously.

I am not certain what this training is for so I cannot comment extensively on it. It could be for some expert level training or some sort, for which case, I am not against, but yeah, if it is just for exposure to other cultures, t[b]hen I say government should spend that money on educating our people on cultures here at home first, before we start going over to Japan, South Africa, or France to learn of their culture and their take on leadership.[/b]

Imagine the gain we would have if our public school programs also helped expose and educate our kids on other cultures right there in the country and why it is necessary for them to RESPECT the culture of others. We could raise a generation more tolerant in most all ways than the last, and the current.

Ok. . . .I get nkan ti e n so.

babapupa:


The point here is the fact that it doesn't matter where, people will complain. I'm not sure if this a reading and compression problem, they didn't send them  to SA to learn about SA. Have you asked yourself why other countries send their military folks to Nigeria for military training? Is it your opinion that they send them to Nigeria to learn about Nigeria and not about military training?


I don't get some of you I swear,

1. Are yu actually comparing these secondary school travel to militart training? FAIL!

2. Once again, nobody is complain about the program. Just about the expense and it's value in international travel

3. You still havent answered this question:

Kobojunkie:

Are these exchange programs(travel included) at the expense of the STATE or the individuals signing up for the program? Last time I remember, I had to foot the bill myself. All the state did was connect me with information on the right school and contact for the program. I had to pay my way on my own . . . only some PRIVATE scholarships available for most all of these programs.

4. And going to S.A [b]IS [/b]to learn about the policies of S.A. If not, then what is the point? Of course, I'm not only worried about S.A. . . . but also other countries that might follow. . . . I heard that Zimbabwe is next on the list. NIGERIA IS A GOOD ENOUGH spot to learn what you can learn.

While there might be perfectly viable opportunities to deliver leadership training within Nigeria, that doesn't not necessarily make this trip a bad idea.

Resources need to be used judiciously for the greatest overall benefit, and this can be achieved within the country.

That said, I am disappointed in those saying there is nothing to be learned in SA about leadership. . . if we had leaders like Mandela who voluntarily stood down after one term, or Mbeki who left office after it appeared that he was on a vendetta mission against his deputy, things would be much better in Nigeria.

This is apart from the business examples of leadership in SA, and the recent success of Danny Jordaan in leading the organisation responsible for the successful hosting of the WC.

While we recognise the flaws in SA, let's not be disingenuous when trying to prove a point.

If fashola sent these kids to Abuja, they will complain. If he sent them to Adamawa, they will still complain. 'Why send them outside Lagos? Are there no excellent facilities in Lagos? Why not send them to Ikorodu or Badagry to learn Egun and about the slave trade?'

You can't satisfy people, especially Nigerians. Always complaining and criticising even when ordinary school kids gain some exposure and education at the same time. Even if there was no precedent, can't a Nigerian official be a trail blazer? Even when there are numerous instances of Asian, European, and American public institutions spending public funds to educate public officials and school kids, they still complain.

Iwo fa lenu, nkan to ba wun enikan lo le fi enu e so. Those kids are going to SA and they will come back with some education about leadership and a different environment.

debosky:

While there might be perfectly viable opportunities to deliver leadership training within Nigeria, that doesn't not necessarily make this trip a bad idea.

Resources need to be used judiciously for the greatest overall benefit, and this can be achieved within the country.

That said, I am disappointed in those saying there is nothing to be learned in SA about leadership. . . if we had leaders like Mandela who voluntarily stood down after one term, or Mbeki who left office after it appeared that he was on a vendetta mission against his deputy, things would be much better in Nigeria.

This is apart from the business examples of leadership in SA, and the recent success of Danny Jordaan in leading the organisation responsible for the successful hosting of the WC.

While we recognise the flaws in SA, let's not be disingenuous when trying to prove a point.

True that. And that can't be learned in Nigeria? Does Nigeria not also have it's own fair share of "good cop"?

Beaf:

Is alausa now a military camp?
Anyway, the reason other countries send their soldiers here to train is because our army is simply better than theirs. If you send your kids to SA to learn leadership, you are telling them that SA is better than Nigeria. I wouldn't be surprised if these kids grow up only to call for South Africa to please come colonise their state or country.

Are the Chinese telling the Americans and British that America and Britain are better than China by sending their kids to American and British business schools on state funds?

Katsumoto:

Are the Chinese telling the Americans and British that America and Britain are better than China by sending their kids to American and British business schools on state funds?

That is completely different, because a lot of those Chinese students will be farmed out to work in Western branches of Chinese companies and there is a vast cultural gap to bridge. Its a totally different kettle of fish; the Chinese aren't sending their kids to the US and the UK for leadership training, lest poor Chairman Mao rolls, moans and groans in his grave!

Ileke-IdI:

True that. And that can't be learned in Nigeria? Does Nigeria not also have it's own fair share of "good cop"?

Not of the calibre of Nelson Mandela or Mbeki - our current political crises testify to that.

Katsumoto:

If fashola sent these kids to Abuja, they will complain. If he sent them to Adamawa, they will still complain. 'Why send them outside Lagos? Are there no excellent facilities in Lagos? Why not send them to Ikorodu or Badagry to learn Egun and about the slave trade?'

You can't satisfy people, especially Nigerians. Always complaining and criticising even when ordinary school kids gain some exposure and education at the same time. Even if there was no precedent, can't a Nigerian official be a trail blazer? Even when there are numerous instances of Asian, European, and American public institutions spending public funds to educate public officials and school kids, they still complain.

Iwo fa lenu, nkan to ba wun enikan lo le fi enu e so. Those kids are going to SA and they will come back with some education about leadership and a different environment.

There is a risk that ALL criticism (both constructive and superfluous) will be discarded simply because you feel 'all Nigerians complain'.

That is not acceptable - as a government, you must be able to filter the useful from the chaff. No one is saying there is an issue with leadership training - the crux is, given the cost of international travel, are there cheaper yet EQUALLY BENEFICIAL options that could have been selected?

If there are overriding reasons why this trip had to be in SA, that would be the way to address the concerns raised instead of simply painting it as a 'them vs us' matter.

Katsumoto:

Are the Chinese telling the Americans and British that America and Britain are better than China by sending their kids to American and British business schools on state funds?

Sending kids to school abroad is a different ball game. As a matter of fact, I will not object to sending professional Lagosians to workshops that has substance with immense value which we don't have access to in Nigeria. After all, companies send their staff to RSA, UK, US, etc for Engineering, IT or medical workshops but sending toddlers to RSA for leadership workshop is ridiculous. My opinion is they can host the workshop locally, save the money they are exporting to RSA for teh health of our economy.

Nigerian leaders do this rubbish all the time. So, it didn't start with Fashola. Was it not first ladies or LG chairmen in Nigeria who tried to flow into UK en masse for a leadership workshop some 2 years ago before the British embassy gave them the boot?. How about that?.


For your information: One can do 10 yr apprentice for Mandela, Mbeki, Blair, Bush, Gandhi, Clinton etc and still end up a thieving leader. Our problem in Nigeria is not the method of leadership, rather it is our immorality and the ease at which others give us the nod when we commit atrocity because their egunje is assured. BabaPupa is a case study and when you have people like that who promote corruption and irresponsibility at the wake of few naira in their pockets, we have a problem.


Also, when maverick leaders like Bola Ige[God bless his soul] was there, who cared to learn his leadership principles from him?. Did Fashola care to invite the likes of Wole Soyinka or Achebe to talk to these kids?. You think they will gain more from Maputo Mulewewe in South africa than they will gain from an Achebe or Soyinka in Nigeria?. Yet that same Soyinka is invited by the so called South Africans to deliver lectures in all kinds of workshops. Una sorry o.

debosky:

There is a risk that ALL criticism (both constructive and superfluous) will be discarded simply because you feel 'all Nigerians complain'.

That is not acceptable - as a government, you must be able to filter the useful from the chaff. No one is saying there is an issue with leadership training - the crux is, given the cost of international travel, are there cheaper yet EQUALLY BENEFICIAL options that could have been selected?

If there are overriding reasons why this trip had to be in SA, that would be the way to address the concerns raised instead of simply painting it as a 'them vs us' matter.

Since lagosians have started singing the praises of Fashola, many other non-Lagosians have started beefing the guy. There has been a concerted effort to turn public opinion against the man. Fashola is the governor of Lagos state, and ONLY and I repeat ONLY lagosians, have the right to criticise him and they should do it in a civil and open manner and not in a cowardly manner through the pages of newspapers and through the Internet. Anyone that wants to criticise Fashola, should go and criticise their own governors first and request the accounts and notes to the accounts of expenditure.

Kilode? Is Fashola the only governor in Nigeria or is Lagos the only state in Nigeria? Fashola has sent these kids on a learning curve, anyone who doesn't like it should go and jump in the lagoon. Let the citizens of the other states who are complaining here, go and query and criticise their own governors first.

This is not a rant at you Debosky.

Katsumoto:

Since lagosians have started singing the praises of Fashola, many other non-Lagosians have started beefing the guy. There has been a concerted effort to turn public opinion against the man. Fashola is the governor of Lagos state, and ONLY and I repeat ONLY lagosians, have the right to criticise him and they should do it in a civil and open manner and not in a cowardly manner through the pages of newspapers and through the Internet. Anyone that wants to criticise Fashola, should go and criticise their own governors first and request the accounts and notes to the accounts of expenditure.

Kilode? Is Fashola the only governor in Nigeria or is Lagos the only state in Nigeria? Fashola has sent these kids on a learning curve, anyone who doesn't like it should go and jump in the lagoon. Let the citizens of the other states who are complaining here, go and query and criticise their own governors first.

This is not a rant at you Debosky.

So Nigeria is now a confederate nation?. Only Oyo indigenes have the right to criticize akala abi?. I didn't know that when Nnamani was under constant scrutiny by Reuben Abati. Is Abati from Enugu state?

WOW !!!

This from someone who equally criticizes other governors and non-lagoscians comfortably from in front of his own computer !! 

So all those who do not equally sing the governor's praises are definitely not Lagoscians?

UNBEWEAVABLE!!!

Kobojunkie:

Hypocrisy Hippocristy na disease name be that!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

@ Kat

You still haven't addressed the issue - I can understand your frustration, but that is the inescapable burden of being a Lagos governor. Due to the importance of Lagos in the scheme of things in Nigeria, any happenings there will always be subject to great scrutiny.

To bring more people onside as it were, an attempt to give a rational justification for the trip in question would be preferable than this 'us vs them' mentality or a mentality that views any criticism as an attack from the enemy.

Success breeds attention and further scrutiny - that cannot be avoided.

Katsumoto:

Since lagosians have started singing the praises of Fashola, many other non-Lagosians have started beefing the guy. There has been a concerted effort to turn public opinion against the man. Fashola is the governor of Lagos state, and ONLY and I repeat ONLY lagosians, have the right to criticise him and they should do it in a civil and open manner and not in a cowardly manner through the pages of newspapers and through the Internet. Anyone that wants to criticise Fashola, should go and criticise their own governors first and request the accounts and notes to the accounts of expenditure.

Kilode? Is Fashola the only governor in Nigeria or is Lagos the only state in Nigeria? Fashola has sent these kids on a learning curve, anyone who doesn't like it should go and jump in the lagoon. Let the citizens of the other states who are complaining here, go and query and criticise their own governors first.

This is not a rant at you Debosky.

Is it different rules for different states? Seriously, that argument is very weak and unhelpful.
How come the whole country was at Ibori's throat, whereas he was governor of ONLY Delta state and stole ONLY Delta states money? Come on, I'm sure you must have critisised Ibori at some point.
Lagos is not an independent country, everybody is allowed to criticise their fellow citizens.

Beaf:

Is it different rules for different states? Seriously, that argument is very weak and unhelpful.
How come the whole country was at Ibori's throat, whereas he was governor of ONLY Delta state and stole ONLY Delta states money? Come on, I'm sure you must have critisised Ibori at some point.
Lagos is not an independent country, everybody is allowed to criticise their fellow citizens.

You are right; I let my annoyance get the better of me.
I apologise

debosky:

@ Kat

You still haven't addressed the issue - I can understand your frustration, but that is the inescapable burden of being a Lagos governor. Due to the importance of Lagos in the scheme of things in Nigeria, any happenings there will always be subject to great scrutiny.

To bring more people onside as it were, an attempt to give a rational justification for the trip in question would be preferable than this 'us vs them' mentality or a mentality that views any criticism as an attack from the enemy.

Success breeds attention and further scrutiny - that cannot be avoided.

I have a question for those criticising this move; do you know what has been budgeted for this initiative? We don't know whether it is part of an agreement with a body in SA or whether it is sponsored by a corporate. Honestly, how much would it cost to send to send 42 school kids to SA for one week? Without knowing the cost to the tax-payer, it is futile criticising the move.

Katsumoto:

You are right; I let my annoyance get the better of me.
I apologise

I recall someone calling you a gentleman on another thread. I'll repeat it here, you are a gentleman.

Beaf:

I recall someone calling you a gentleman on another thread. I'll repeat it here, you are a gentleman.

Thanks

debosky:

@ Kat

You still haven't addressed the issue - I can understand your frustration, but that is the inescapable burden of being a Lagos governor. Due to the importance of Lagos in the scheme of things in Nigeria, any happenings there will always be subject to great scrutiny.

To bring more people onside as it were, an attempt to give a rational justification for the trip in question would be preferable than this 'us vs them' mentality or a mentality that views any criticism as an attack from the enemy.

Success breeds attention and further scrutiny - that cannot be avoided.

I don't know how long you've been on NL. Obviously, you don't know these clowns, they are not reasonable and it's absolutely pointless to reason with them. Their job is to criticize anything and everything Lagos state good or bad.

Let me give you an assignment, post the most positive thing about Lagos state tomorrow and I bet you  the same clowns will complain and argue their warped opinions,

I don't respect them and their silly and pointless opinions. We all know the difference between genuine concerns and tribal nonsense.

Katsumoto:

I have a question for those criticising this move; do you know what has been budgeted for this initiative? We don't know whether it is part of an agreement with a body in SA or whether it is sponsored by a corporate. Honestly[b], how much would it cost[/b] to send to send 42 school kids to SA for one week? Without knowing the cost to the tax-payer, it is futile criticising the move.

So, even since both sides of this have no knowledge of the above, it is OK to be for this but not OK to be against it at this point? lol

Without knowing the cost to the tax-payer, it is OK(even with limited knowledge and all) to be for this but FUTILE to be against it?

I love Fashola, but this, I do not buy into that much. Lagos should be the pace setter and S.Africa of all places, they don't even respect Nigeria.

Katsumoto:

I have a question for those criticising this move; do you know what has been budgeted for this initiative? We don't know whether it is part of an agreement with a body in SA or whether it is sponsored by a corporate. Honestly, how much would it cost to send to send 42 school kids to SA for one week? Without knowing the cost to the tax-payer, it is futile criticising the move.

If it was advertised that the children had received a grounding in Nigerian culture, there would have been little (if anything) to criticise.

I don't know the fine detail, but to me, the paramount issues in our leadership deficit are;
1. Tribalism
2. Tribalism
3. Tribalism

I would imagine that the solution to our tribal leanings lies with mixing with one another and learning about each others cultures. A trip to South Africa will not stop a Jukun kid sneering at his Tiv schoolmate (something that will develop into full blown tribalism in later years). The answer is to site the training either in Lagos and bring in lots of outside cultural influences or actually send the kids on excursions to various parts of the country. Let them see the beauty of kunu and fura in the North, let them marvel at the sight of plantain sized banana's at Obolo-Afor; Nigeria is a wonderful place, if only we would give it a chance.

All that will happen to these kids, is they will jet off to South Africa to marvel at SA successes and lose sight of little chinks of their identity.

Beaf:

If it was advertised that the children had received a grounding in Nigerian culture, there would have been little (if anything) to criticise.

I don't know the fine detail, but to me, the paramount issues in our leadership deficit are;
1. Tribalism
2. Tribalism
3. Tribalism

I would imagine that the solution to our tribal leanings lies with mixing with one another and learning about each others cultures. A trip to South Africa will not stop a Jukun kid sneering at his Tiv schoolmate (something that will develop into full blown tribalism in later years). The answer is to site the training either in Lagos and bring in lots of outside cultural influences or actually send the kids on excursions to various parts of the country. Let them see the beauty of kunu and fura in the North, let them marvel at the sight of plantain sized banana's at Obolo-Afor; Nigeria is a wonderful place, if only we would give it a chance.

All that will happen to these kids, is they will jet off to South Africa to marvel at SA successes and lose sight of little chinks of their identity.

I am not against your suggestion but they (suggestions) don't have to be mutually exclusive. No one is going to argue that one is better than the other. At the end of the day, Fashola knows the objective and he feels that this is a good way to achieve it. Thats why he is the leader of Lagos state. It is his vision.

The fact is, this is nothing new, this is an annual event and the kids are in SA for good reasons, they are public school kids and the state investing in public school kids in this manner is a beautiful thing. The kids are in SA and this time next year, another grounp will be in another country or maybe even SA.

I'm happy for the kids

I'm happy for their parents

I'm happy for the great state of Lagos


The kids are in SA and if any of you sadists and backward villagers don't like it, jump off the nearest cliff.

WOW . . .  this makes me love living in western society where people are OPEN to criticism from all sides,and those who are not cannot really do anything about it but WHINE . . . I definitely miss that aspect of life here every time I head back home to NIgeria.