Freewilly:

So sad to see my fellow Nigerians kissing up to some white boy in 2006

kind of sad that you could make that statement, a lot of Nigerians are open minded and accept all people regardless of their race or sexuality.

There are no true "Nigerians" as the country Nigeria is an artificial creation.

What makes you Nigerian? your ethnic group or what? If you're claiming to be Nigerian by virtue of your ethnicity then i should point out to you that there are Yorubas and Hausas in the countries surrounding Nigeria, Are they Nigerian??

In the fear of not coming accross as being racist, I do understand Freewilly's perspective. However, it's such a shame that he doesn't have a different avenue of expressing his opinion and therefore get irate easily.

Interesting also is seeing how we blacks readily accept whites as one of us but the reverse is the case with whites. From a constitutional point of view and the fact that Medube was born and of course bred in Nigeria does make him NIGERIAN!

With that cleared up, i am also one of those blacks that believes that though I hold a red passport, I am still Nigerian based on my parents heritage. Until whites are ready to accept us as one of them and not constantly ask us where are root is, i think it's only fair to understand why Freewilly beliefs that being white does not make you African.

Wait till there is Genocide in South Africa to find out how many Afrikaans would remember that they are actually more German or Dutch than South African. They would FLEE!

I have been reading this thread with interest.

luridguy:

yea dey might have light 24 hours water and all that don't forget the country is just a little bit bigger than lagos and u should see the[b] gap between the poor and the rich its huge ........[/b]..nigeria is a difficult country to run but u can't compare ghana with nigeria its not just right

What does the size of the country have to do with anything.  In Nigeria each state has a governor and should be committed to developing the state. So size should not matter. In regards to the gap between the poor and rich...Pleeeeeeease it's the same situation in EVERY  west African country.
Several People have stated Ghana beats Nigeria in relation to just light and water.  Is water and light just!! To me water and light is very important.  One thing with us Africans is we don't give credit where it is due.  The truth is Ghanaian govt is not perfect but is trying very hard to change things for the better.
It is the corrupt govt that is killing Nigeria.  Come on let's be real.  The once giant of Africa has been let down by greedy politicians, flying girlfriends, here, there and everywhere.
We have to also blame ourselves, a lot of the time People leave the shores of Africa and don't return to contribute to the development of their country.
As a Ghanaian the thing that makes me proud is the fact that Ghana is a peaceful place, we live peacefully side by side, and openly accept everybody.  Unfortunately as Medube stated, the majority of crime is committed by foreigners.
All in all, Africa in general should be the RICHEST continent but due to all the corruption in all the countries and to much intervention from outsiders we are dying, both economically and physically.

From what I read, Freewilly's main gripe is that Medube is white and Nigerian...anyway I digress;
Back to Original post...
Medube, saw this article-  http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/26/news/ghana.php
and thot it might interest you.

GUys, guys, guys, dont get my comparison wrong. I am Nigerian (as you can see I've been trying to emphasise to some dumb as*** earlier) and proud of it. I am even married to a Jet Black woman from the middle belt of Nigeria and we have a lovely daughter which we are proud of. I have known and lived Nigeria all my life even more than those who are arguing and have been born and lived in Europe or America or Prison all theirs. If I could do anything to change the present economy, political instability, corruption and many other bad things that affect our great nation, I would have.  

My comparisons between Nigeria and Ghana are based on things and facilities which I saw that can be put in place or corrected in Nigeria thanks to our great resources but then again are highly mismanaged over here. I stated clearly that it makes me sad when I compare Nigeria of the late 70s and early 80s to now.

I wont accept someone who has based all of his or her life in the UK or US, living there, going to school there, working there and in that respect developing there stand up and tell me that I am not Nigerian. Someone who has not been in Nigeria through thick and thin, rather been in the UK and telling me that they speak Igbo or Hausa or Yoruba is more Nigerian than me, thats bulls***. If you are really Nigerian and proud of it, come back home and lets join hands to make this nation a great place, don't sit down in another man's land or in a maximum prison facility and claim to be more Nigerian than me.

And for the record straight, if you want to place your argument that I am not an indeginious Nigerian, then I would agree, but to say that I am a Nigerian National, I am not Nigerian then I think some people need to clarify what the menaning of citizen or nationality is.

Desola:

In the fear of not coming accross as being racist, I do understand Freewilly's perspective. However, it's such a shame that he doesn't have a different avenue of expressing his opinion and therefore get irate easily.

Interesting also is seeing how we blacks readily accept whites as one of us but the reverse is the case with whites. From a constitutional point of view and the fact that Medube was born and of course bred in Nigeria does make him NIGERIAN!

With that cleared up, i am also one of those blacks that believes that though I hold a red passport, I am still Nigerian based on my parents heritage. Until whites are ready to accept us as one of them and not constantly ask us where are root is, i think it's only fair to understand why Freewilly beliefs that being white does not make you African.

I do agree with you on this, we're hardly accepted in white societies. However it doesn't make it right for us to do the same. Trust me i know what it is like to be on the outside. I was born in Northern England and suffered a lot of racist abuse growing up. In fact it was one of the reasons we returned to Nigeria in the 70s.
Africans are treated badly all over the world, i don't know why? but i think we're better than that and shouldn't do the same thing.

Having said that I am still a true African, Nigerian and Ijebu man

Hi guys,

I've been staying in Accra, Ghana for the past 4 months. I was in Lagos for xmas and could not help running off as soon as posible. But then, I  cant say for certain  if Ghana is better than Nigeria, however, it far more organised than Lagos.

Accra has steady power
Good road network with traffic lights
Good communication system land land and mobile (no GPRS yet)
Less population (Population roughly 5m as against Lagos 15m. I dont know the land mass (area)
No "Okada" (you may have to take taxi and/or buses)
I think food is cheaper (though marginally)
Houses (good houses) are very expensive
Water supply in Accra is not quite fantanstic ( I see ppl with Jerry can going about looking for water)
"Cedi" their currency is very weak (20,000 cedis cannot do more than 300 Naira)
Economy is not regulated. Its a free market. I paid for some services in dollars. Some markets may accept Naira
Women in accra a generally "fatter" than in Lagos (they kind of think its cute to be fat)
People here (in Accra) are lazier than in Lagos

Let me stop here (its like am getting personal)


Accra is a nice place though. Between staying in Accra and Lagos, I'll chose Accra. Between Accra and Jos I'll have to really think about it.

cheers

I thought Medube is Asian and not White.

I won't make any excuses for Nigeria, we've had a pathetic bunch of losers in government and we've mismanaged our vast resources.

But doing a comparison of Nigeria and Ghana lets look at the stats

Ghana
Population: 21 Million (approx)
Religions: Christian 63%, Muslim 16%, indigenous beliefs 21%
Ethnic groups: Akan 44%, Moshi-Dagomba 16%, Ewe 13%, Ga 8%, Gurma 3%, Yoruba 1%

Nigeria
Population: 129 Million (approx)
Religions: Muslim 50%, Christian 40%, indigenous beliefs 10%
Ethnic groups:
Africa's most populous country, is composed of more than 250 ethnic groups; the following are the most populous and politically influential: Hausa and Fulani 29%, Yoruba 21%, Igbo (Ibo) 18%, Ijaw 10%, Kanuri 4%, Ibibio 3.5%, Tiv 2.5%

source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Nigeria was created by the British to 'fail', if it wasn't, why combine so many major different ethnic groups into one country. The things (like location of development projects, policies, resource control etc) the government can do in Ghana without too much opposition becomes an herculean task in Nigeria where you have to deal with so much ethnic and religious interests.

I'm not making any excuses for Nigeria but we need to be aware of the overall structure and history of the two countries in order to understand why Ghana is doing a lot better than Nigeria.

naana:

So size should not matter. In regards to the gap between the poor and rich...Pleeeeeeease it's the same situation in EVERY  west African country.

I tend to agree with naana, size has nothing whatsoever to do with any development. If you state ethnic differences, then one might say maybe you have a point, but yet i can counter agrue that point.

Let's break NIgeria down into states where we can look at it in smaller views in terms of development and growth. I want to pick the state of Bayelsa, whish is made up of 90% if not more of 1 ethnic tribe (IJAW). Where the governor down to all the local governemtn are the same tribe. You would expect that Bayelsa with not much divisions within them in terms of religion, ethnicity will be like Accra, South AFrica or even England using their resources, but no, the Governor was caught in the UK with wealth running into millions of Pounds sterling. He was found to have assets in the UK worth £50m and all ths while the people of Bayelsa are living in Mud and tatch houses and live on less than $1 a day.

So now you tell me when you are breaking your analysis down from the CIA fact file or wherever what stops Bayelsa and not Nigeria from becoming a small London since there are no divisions. As pointed out earlier in one of the posts, We are forever living in Denial in Nigeria and Africa and refuse to give praises where it is due.

C'mmon guys, to just say that Ghana is better than Nigeria is far-fetched. There is a lot more than cleanliness and electricity.  I had stayed somewhere in Wuse where we had constant power and water.  That was not enough to say the whole country was right.  There are plenty of impoverished Ghanians as far as I know.  I also know that Nigeria's economy is rated better than Ghana's in the international community.  After SA, it is Nigeria and maybe Botswana before others like Egypt, Lybia, Ghana etc.

So lets be careful about what we say and how we say it.  I can reliably tell you that in the commity of nations, Nigerians are the ones that run their country down.  There are equally clean states like Cross river, Abuja..etc that can match some of those Ghanian cities....  We seem to always use the chaos in Lagos to present what Nigeria is.

Guys, lets be wiser in the next elections to elect people who would lead and not go there to play politics. If it happened in Ukraine, Ghana, kenya, then it can happen in Nigeria. There is power in our vote. I still believe that what is obvious cannot be rigged. If there is an overwhelming support for a particular good candidate, it cannot be rigged.

medube:


So now you tell me when you are breaking your analysis down from the CIA fact file or wherever what stops Bayelsa and not Nigeria from becoming a small London since there are no divisions. As pointed out earlier in one of the posts, We are forever living in Denial in Nigeria and Africa and refuse to give praises where it is due.

You seem to forget that Bayelsa has to rely on the federal government for its monthly allocation and they have no control over their oil resources. Even if the governor was not a crook, the sort of money required to develop a place like Bayelsa, that has been neglected for so long is a lot. Money that will have to come from international donors or the federal government.

Most states in Nigeria can not stand on their own without money from the federal government, a lot of them spend most of the money they get to pay monthly salaries. Even states like Lagos that are 'financially independent' to an extent, can be bought to its knees if the federal government withholds its monthly allocation.
No state in Nigeria can do what you suggest until they have complete control over their resources.

I have no praises for Ghana, why should i ? its like praising someone for been a good dad to his children. it should be the norm.
Just goes to show what 'low expectations' people have about Africa. Its only here that the things that happen in Ghana is news whereas in other parts of the world its seen as the usual way things should be.

@Omon

Cross river is not clean, only Calabar is clean. Once u leave the state capital, it is the usual dumb that you expect in Nigeria.

@Ijebuman
Nigeria's resources should keep it's population and economy vibrant. I think we continue to make these excuses to our demise.

@Medube
Dude u are as Nigerian as any one here. Feel free to run your mouth and accept my apology for Freewilly, i think she is Hating!! Freewilly u sound like a hater,str8 up!!

@Topic
Let us call a spade a spade and not a Garden Fork, Ghana is better than Nigeria and you can use any metrics or facts as a yardstick and Nigerians will argue that we are still the paper giants of Africa. Soon Ghana, Cameron and Senegal will be able to beat us Militarily because we are not investing in our future. I personally think Nigeria is one of the worst countries in Africa, and i find it absurd that Nigerians still claim we have out $hit 2gether.

Kokscity calling it like he see it from Yankee.

Kokscity:


Kokscity calling it like he see it from Yankee.

Kokscity i was expecting you on this thread earlier with your usual views on Nigeria

Kokcity, it is good that companies like MTN do not have to rely on your doomsday prophecy. I can reliably tell you too that not all parts of Ghana is clean. If you want, I can refer you to some videos showing certain areas for you to know that all is not well there. They are equally struggling, I have met a number of them here in the UK

Please let me make it clear to all, even you omon, when I compare Nigeria to Ghana, I am not only talking of cleanliness or only facilities, afterall even the UK and US have dirty areas and slums. One main thing is the attitude towards people, afterall we can all see how some posts from educated persons living outside Naija and have been exposed to different types of cultures and traditions.

Anyways, I didnt mean to start any quarrel between members of this forum, I still love Naija from the bottom of my heart and will continue to do what I can in my powers amongst others to help make it a better place to live in.

Attitude to people is one thing you cannot generalise in Gigeria because of one bad experience.  I have English friends here who want to go back to Nigeria.  They had enjoyed real hospitality there when they were there initially.  I had such a friend during my study in one of the universities. He had worked in the 'dreaded' Niger Delta and before we had finished our course, he told me he had already applied for a job in Nigeria. Now it was not for the money b/because he was not initially payed too well in the first job iin Naija, but he liked the people as well. So my point is, do not generalise, ther are some who ofind it good, others bad. If you stay in lagos, make do to travel round the country and come back to tell of your expereince.

In the present day Ghana, there is good mass eductaion on tourism, I think we are beginning to work in that direction too. So I am not disputing your good experience in Ghana but to put a blanket statement that Ghana is better than Nigeria is misleading.

the reason why nigeria cannot be like ghana can be stated in two words - corruption and irresponsibility. I will talk about irresponsibility because we all know what corruption is. Non accountability is a form of irresponsibility. Everybody doing what ever comes to their mind and no one asks as a check. You can park your car in the middle of the highway and stroll over to the other side to take a lick few metres from a police check point that is collecting twenty naira from every taxi. MEDUBE did u see any such thing as police checkpoint in Ghana? Someone talked about elections and voting the right people in. I want to cry but i can't because the only election that has taken place in Nigeria was that of June 12, all others are selection and allocation. Check (if you can) then u find out that the numbers released where more than the registered voters.

My friend, with the will on our side, we can have another 'June 12' again

what will?.
anyway its bad to say dat,do u want another june 12?,join me on nairaland's chat room

@Ijebuman,

U know i could not sit on the side line too long. I could not resist.

@Omon

My guy,my guy, take a chill pill. I think you have not been home in a while from my exchanges with you. U have too much faith and hope in that country. I keep telling you that what we need is to Arm ourselves and take back this $hit, or else that dam is broken. The next 10 generations in Nigeria are guaranteed to be corrupt, if the police can take Naira 20 on the street, and get away with it. Then think of what that" Ape" in Aso Rock is doing. Nigeria is doomed and i hope we can stay together pass 2007. We need a revolution to get rid of corruption and greed and injustice.

Kokscity is battle ready!!!!!

I mean we can have another sort of election like we had on June 12

@ NA

If a child was to be born today(2006), which country do you think that he or she will want to be born in if they had a choice? Nigeria or Ghana?

Kokscity will have his kid in present day Ghana over present day Nigeria!

The revolution we need does start from telling people to leave Nigeria like you advocate.  Instead we should be thinking of going back home to influence things there.  I can say here that Nigerians in diaspora have not formed enough synergy to fight the ills in our society. If we can have an very strong group with good financing to put pressure on the govt.  It is a shame indeed!  Look at the ripples caused by Jonathan and sowore in the few months of operating their online journalism.Imagine that we have such a strong union in the diaspora to change things back home....

u are right.but...
ok join me in da chatroom
www.nairaland.com/chat.php

Kokscity:

@Ijebuman,

U know i could not sit on the side line too long. I could not resist.

@Omon

My guy,my guy, take a chill pill. I think you have not been home in a while from my exchanges with you. U have too much faith and hope in that country. I keep telling you that what we need is to Arm ourselves and take back this $hit, or else that dam is broken. The next 10 generations in Nigeria are guaranteed to be corrupt, if the police can take Naira 20 on the street, and get away with it. Then think of what that" Ape" in Aso Rock is doing. Nigeria is doomed and i hope we can stay together pass 2007. We need a revolution to get rid of corruption and greed and injustice.

Kokscity is battle ready!!!!!

You are one the very few here who is talking some sense here without pretence.

omon:

If you stay in lagos, make do to travel round the country and come back to tell of your expereince.

omon I have stayed in Lagos, in Warri, in Port harcourt, wherelese do you want me to stay to be able to have a different opinion on Naija.

omon:

Now it was not for the money b/because he was not initially payed too well in the first job iin Naija, but he liked the people as well.

Omon most foreigners that come to Naija come here to make easy money because Oil flows. Go to Murtala Mohammed Airport and see how many foreigners come here for tourism, close to 0.

otokx:

MEDUBE did u see any such thing as police checkpoint in Ghana?

Honestly, I only saw 2 and that was on the way to Togo and they do not talk to passengers only the driver with utmost decency.

So for you guys to sit down in the UK or the US and be able ti judge the difference is totally improper. Come here and experience the real life and then post, Im sure you will be speaking the total opposite of what you are saying. Listen to the news of Nigeria on a daily basis and you will know what is happening. For example, where else in the world does the government wait for 5 air crashes to happen within 2 months to take action. People wake UP!!!

@Omon

Jonathan and Sowore are affecting change from the US abi? They had to leave Nigeria to get that done. My personal belief is that people yearn to be free and if people are looking for better opportunities in life that Naija cannot offer,i think they should leave. Infact mass exodus sometimes makes a country rethink it's policies and it is a form of protest.

Kokscity left Nigeria and did not look back!!!!!! Waiting to kill some of these thieves that are ruling us. Catch them on neutral ground and might egg or even pie them.

Medube

Please push Omon and Ijebuman to wake up. Look @ Omon Snoring !! and Ijebuman is in lullaby land...........Pour water on them and tell them to be battle ready!!!!!!!!

i fink dere's gonna be a solution,cuz the major cause is corruption.

medube:

You are one the very few here who is talking some sense here without pretence.

We don't agree with you so we're not making sense, you have your view and i have mine we don't have to agree but we do need to respect each others' opinion.

medube:

omon I have stayed in Lagos, in Warri, in Port harcourt, wherelese do you want me to stay to be able to have a different opinion on Naija.

Omon most foreigners that come to Naija come here to make easy money because Oil flows. Go to Murtala Mohammed Airport and see how many foreigners come here for tourism, close to 0.

Honestly, I only saw 2 and that was on the way to Togo and they do not talk to passengers only the driver with utmost decency.

So for you guys to sit down in the UK or the US and be able ti judge the difference is totally improper. Come here and experience the real life and then post, I'm sure you will be speaking the total opposite of what you are saying. Listen to the news of Nigeria on a daily basis and you will know what is happening. For example, where else in the world does the government wait for 5 air crashes to happen within 2 months to take action. People wake UP!!!

Making assumptions and generalising is not the way to put your points across. I have family in Nigeria and i visit regularly. I spent half my life in that country (secondary and university) so i do know what i'm talking about. There are a lot of us doing a lot of work on projects in Nigeria, which i can tell you about if you're interested.

For Kokcity and Meduba, this may be interesting for you to read these
article

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/travels/2005/aug/27/travels-27-08-2005-001.htm.

and http://www.accra-mail.com/mailnews.asp?id=15143

You will learn to appreciate another person's point of view.

ijebuman:

We don't agree with you so we're not making sense, you have your view and i have mine we don't have to agree but we do need to respect each others' opinion.

Making assumptions and generalising is not the way to put your points across. I have family in Nigeria and i visit regularly. I spent half of my life in that country (secondary and university) so i do know what i'm talking about. There are a lot of us doing a lot of work on projects in Nigeria, which i can tell you about if you're interested.

I am not sure you follow Nigeria's news more than I do.  I have lived in Nigeria for about 30 years of my life.  (Sorry, initial quote was from meduba)