vaxx:
The bottom line, isreal is a religious country. No need to go forth and back.

what ever religious dogma Nigeria followed doea not have anything to do with development. Nigeria is more liberal than Qatar and saudi Arabia yet tbis nation are moving closer to a developed country.

This is erroneous claim as you have no solid proof to back it up. Even in Africa, Egypt is practically doing well than than any African country bar south Africa. Yet she is very religious.

You don't need to go thru all this jokes. Not all Christian even in Nigeria believe in heaven and hell . Some treat at as a state of the mind, not all Christian belive in hell fire. Different opinion to different people. So is Buddhism. I only identify the type of Buddha affiliate with such belive.

This isn't true. UAE , Qatar, Saudi Arabia proof this notion wrong.

i haven't heard of any nation practicing such except from you Buddha. The bottom line isreal is religion country which gives value and interpretation to religion in her constitution. Isreal the land of Jews.

Well, I guess this is an issue of perception so I'll let it go. I would suggest to you that nations that move away from the religious and tend towards the scientific tend to have longer life expectancies. I in no way mean all nations would adapt to this rule, but on the whole, I think they do.

Here's a list of nations for you to check.

budaatum:

Hopefully you are aware that logical does not necessarily mean valid and true, nor is logical, evidence!

Still, provide your "logical explanation for reincarnation" vaxx.

It has rules and implications. It defines the domains that can be considered "true" and "false" and makes it possible to distinguish one from another.
It can be taught to anyone who is curious and has patience. Only if you have patience Buddha.

I have already established the logic and scienctifc approach to reincarnation. Yours is to go there and pick the flaws.

vaxx:
speculation is science and the first realm of knolwedge. Case close.

I thereby speculate that Creationism is science. Case closed!

(Hmm, that don't sound as corny as I hoped! Creationism is science too, just old and ancient, or "first realm" science done by primitives and which has been superseded by the superior intellect of today.)

It would be very wrong all the same to claim creationism and reincarnation is valid. They both are very not!

budaatum:

Well, I guess this is an issue of perception so I'll let it go. I would suggest to you that nations that move away from the religious and tend towards the scientific tend to have longer life expectancies. I in no way mean all nations would adapt to this rule, but on the whole, I think they do.

Here's a list of nations for you to check.

If confirmation biased is not involved. Economic and political structure influence development.


There are many list of nations there on your list with very strong religious dogma yet they live long and progressed well.

budaatum:

I thereby speculate that Creationism is science. Case closed!

(Hmm, that don't sound as corny as I hoped! Creationism is science too, just old and ancient, or "first realm" science done by primitives and which has been superseded by the superior intellect of today.)

It would be very wrong all the same to claim creationism and reincarnation is valid. They both are very not!

creationism is not speculation. Because the idea has been in failing persistent repetition for now and had been properly refuted, failed, debunked, discarded and thier idea have been regarded as unevidenced fanciful notions.



Reincarnation is not a valid theory, that is your mistake. It is simply a speculation for now.

budaatum:

Yes! All the research into it has not shown it to be untrue! And not accepting it isn't is equivalent to believing there's a million pounds in an empty pocket, and I am personally not that way inclined!

There have been some cases i read some time ago where a child started complaining about remembering her home and her parents. I. E in her previous life. I think her previous life parents where tracked and she could recall the names of her ex relatives.. I'd try and find a link

vaxx:
It has rules and implications. It defines the domains that can be considered "true" and "false" and makes it possible to distinguish one from another.
It can be taught to anyone who is curious and has patience. Only if you have patience Buddha.

I have already established the logic and scienctifc approach to reincarnation. Yours is to go there and pick the flaws.

I wonder if your be "curious and has patience", is not some sly way of you asking me to just accept what you are asserting?

I have no problems engaging or speculating with the implications of an idea, even of reincarnation, a topic I have explored extensively. There is however no scientific evidence that reincarnation has ever happened, nor have you provided any evidence for me to pick flaws in.

Below is a link to a short of Jung's work from The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.9 Part 1) on the subject to show how valuable an idea it could be.
The image below, see the flow of the soul through the process of reincarnation.
http://box5415.temp.domains/~sacreeh5/2013/06/07/carl-jung-on-rebirth-resurrection-metempsychosis/

budaatum:

No you wouldn't. What you'd find is more mothers and children dying at birth and shorter life spans in general. Not only for Nigeria, but everywhere.

Well I guess I've just proven a point here from the stats of Italy and Saudi Arabia.
Well the one's that survive live a long time. Check the stats between the life expectancy of folks in the villages compared to the busy,rowdy and hectic cities of Lagos then you can make conclusions.
Note that life span doesn't necessarily have to do with health or physical conditions of individuals in a community.

kkins25:

There have been some cases i read some time ago where a child started complaining about remembering her home and her parents. I. E in her previous life. I think her previous life parents where tracked and she could recall the names of her ex relatives.. I'd try and find a link

My own mother tells stories from when she was my great great grand mother! Fortunately she doesn't know I've heard the same stories from her very own mother.

kkins25:

There have been some cases i read some time ago where a child started complaining about remembering her home and her parents. I. E in her previous life. I think her previous life parents where tracked and she could recall the names of her ex relatives.. I'd try and find a link

Same thing I was talking about.

vaxx:
The bottom line, isreal is a religious country. No need to go forth and back.

what ever religious dogma Nigeria followed does not have anything to do with development. Nigeria is more liberal than Qatar and saudi Arabia yet this nation are moving closer to a developed country.

This is erroneous claim as you have no solid proof to back it up. Even in Africa, Egypt is practically doing well than than any African country bar south Africa. Yet she is very religious.

You don't need to go thru all this jokes. Not all Christian even in Nigeria believe in heaven and hell . Some treat it as a state of the mind, not all Christian belive in hell fire. Different opinion to different people. So is Buddhism. I only identify the type of Buddha affiliate with such belive.

This isn't true. UAE , Qatar, Saudi Arabia proof this notion wrong.

i haven't heard of any nation practicing such except from you Buddha. The bottom line isreal is religion country which gives value and interpretation to religion in her constitution. Isreal the land of Jews.

All this long talk self, do saudi arabian citizens, qatar, uae, spend 12 at a night vigil waiting for God to provide a helper, or give them a miraculous job?? They take their religion differently. Im pretty sure they don't blame economic downfall on disobedience to God. These countries provide practical solutions to problems. Do countries like Nigeria do the same?? They might not engage in philosophical religion as stated by buda. But they definitely do not depend on their God for everything..

China on the other hand is making the effort to destroy foreign religions like Christianity nd islam..

EmperorHarry:

Well I guess I've just proven a point here from the stats of Italy and Saudi Arabia.
Well the one's that survive live a long time. Check the stats between the life expectancy of folks in the villages compared to the busy,rowdy and hectic cities of Lagos then you can make conclusions.
Note that life span doesn't necessarily have to do with health or physical conditions of individuals in a community.

What does life expectancy have to do with if not health and physical condition?

Over in UK they advocate healthy living and lots of exercise and people live long. Over in Nigeria we pray to God. Is there no difference in life expectancy?

budaatum:

I wonder if your be "curious and has patience", is not some sly way of you asking me to just accept what you are asserting?

I have no problems engaging or speculating with the implications of an idea, even of reincarnation, a topic I have explored extensively. There is however no scientific evidence that reincarnation has ever happened, nor have you provided any evidence for me to pick flaws in.

Below is a link to a short of Jung's work from The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.9 Part 1) on the subject to show how valuable an idea it could be.
http://box5415.temp.domains/~sacreeh5/2013/06/07/carl-jung-on-rebirth-resurrection-metempsychosis/

Science doesn’t reject the idea of reincarnation. The question is: What kind of reincarnation? And what types of evidence are you looking to reject?


If a God can be eternal as speculated why can’t the universe?

If the universe is eternal and, as it appears that the Quantum principle of uncertainty tells us that it is finite, then what can happen, will happen, and not only once but an infinite number of times. Do you agree?

In that case, after we die, there will be a time so long that there isn’t enough paper on earth to write it down. Yet a finite number of time that we won’t experience as star dust but, if the present moment is possible, it must happen again and again, right?

Of course, this is a different type of reincarnation than what you probably thought of but … the idea isn’t new. More than a century ago, Friedrich Nietzsche already thought of it and called it, the Eternal return -

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return)

budaatum:

My own mother tells stories from when she was my great great grand mother! Fortunately she doesn't know I've heard the same stories from her very own mother.

in my case, the girl didnt reincarnae in the same family. She died in family A as a teenager, and got reincarnated in family B. She remembered family A, and fortunately she was reincarnated in family A's lifetime. Of course they took her to a hospital thinking the girl was going insane. The doctor decided to entertain the girls claims and traced the family A that the girl was talking about. He discovered the family.. I cant remember where i read it, probably in the Seth materials by jane roberts.

kkins25:


All this long talk self, do saudi arabian citizens, qatar, uae, spend 12 at a night vigil waiting for God to provide a helper, or give them a miraculous job?? They take their religion differently. Im pretty sure they don't blame economic downfall on disobedience to God. These countries provide practical solutions to problems. Do countries like Nigeria do the same?? They might not engage in philosophical religion as stated by buda. But they definitely do not depend on their God for everything..

China on the other hand is making the effort to destroy foreign religions like Christianity nd islam..

Those two country you mention are more faith believing than Nigeria. They hardly work, almost the techinical work there are handle by foreigners.

Saudi Arabia for instance, pays 500 dollars to her non working class which give more rooms to many lazy youth not willing to work because the social security pays more than what some of them will get if they work. They practically pay nothing for anything.

When it comes to religious activities, they engage in the rituals than average Nigeria a day. There is religion police to enforce everyone perform their daily rituals and abide by the Islamic rule.


China is not a materialistic nation.

It was you who mentioned scientific evidence for your reincarnation! I called it speculation. It would be like asking theist buda to provide evidence for God for an atheist. I don't go there vaxx.

vaxx:
Science doesn’t reject the idea of reincarnation. The question is: What kind of reincarnation? And what types of evidence are you looking to reject?

If a God can be eternal as speculated why can’t the universe?

If the universe is eternal and, as it appears that the Quantum principle of uncertainty tells us that it is finite, then what can happen, will happen, and not only once but an infinite number of times. Do you agree?

In that case, after we die, there will be a time so long that there isn’t enough paper on earth to write it down. Yet a finite number of time that we won’t experience as star dust but, if the present moment is possible, it must happen again and again, right?

Of course, this is a different type of reincarnation than what you probably thought of but … the idea isn’t new. More than a century ago, Friedrich Nietzsche already thought of it and called it, the Eternal return -

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return)

A theory, vaxx. The sort that is not necessarily true, but mere speculation.

kkins25:
in my case, the girl didnt reincarnae in the same family. She died in family A as a teenager, and got reincarnated in family B. She remembered family A, and fortunately she was reincarnated in family A's lifetime. Of course they took her to a hospital thinking the girl was going insane. The doctor decided to entertain the girls claims and traced the family A that the girl was talking about. He discovered the family.. I cant remember where i read it, probably in the Seth materials by jane roberts.

There have been famous stories even in the West. None have stood up to rigorous scrutiny.

budaatum:

What does life expectancy have to do with if not health and physical condition?

Over in UK they advocate healthy living and lots of exercise and people live long. Over in Nigeria we pray to God. Is there no difference in life expectancy?

Yes buda there is a difference in life expectancy but I'm just trying to make you understand that one's afterlife beliefs doesn't decrease or increase a country's life expectancy although it has a influence albeit an insignificant and subjective one.
Nigerians praying for good health whilst cutting down trees and consuming questionable food stuffs etc only shows that the physical state of one's being is as a result of one's environment. A very religious country that prays 5 times a day but take their environment and healthy way of life seriously shouldn't have any problems smashing the average life span of countries in general. Take an example from the bible,Daniel and the 3 Israelites who refused to eat of the Kings meat and wine but took only vegetables.Now the point I'm drawing out this is not the mainstream point but that healthy living and high standard of living isn't dependent on the disillusion of an afterlife even tho it can influence it.
If health and physical condition had to with life expectancy then America would score below average but it depends on how long individuals in a community live regardless of their conditions which may or may not affect their life's span

budaatum:
It was you who mentioned scientific evidence for your reincarnation! I called it speculation. It would be like asking theist buda to provide evidence for God for an atheist. I don't go there vaxx.


A theory, vaxx. The sort that is not necessarily true, but mere speculation.

i haven't said reincarnation is true or valid here. But it is an inteligent perception to speculate. Science hasn't reject it but science will be happy if you participate in establishing its flaws or upholding the fact.

vaxx:


When it comes to religious activities, they engage in the rituals than average Nigeria a day. There is religion police to enforce everyone perform their daily rituals and abide by the Islamic rule.

You would be amazed to find that the religious police do not enforce beliefs and daily ritual in Saudi Arabia. What they enforce is the outward adherence. They do not whip people into mosques.

vaxx:
i haven't said reincarnation is true or valid here. But it is an inteligent perception to speculate. Science hasn't reject it but science will be happy if you participate in establishing its flaws or upholding the fact.

Vaxx, you are tiresome! We could have spent all this time speculating about and doing "science" on reincarnation if you had just accepted my claim that you were speculating instead of you claiming it was true, and which you're now claiming otherwise here.

Welcome back vaxx!

budaatum:

You would be amazed to find that the religious police do not enforce beliefs and daily ritual in Saudi Arabia. What they enforce is the outward adherence. They do not whip people into mosques.

psychologically they enforce the inward adherence too. You selling and working at the praying hour in the kingdom is a taboo. NOBODY will be willing to be get caught in such act as Muslim.

budaatum:

Vaxx, you are tiresome! We could have spent all this time speculating about and doing "science" on reincarnation if you had just accepted my claim that you were speculating instead of you claiming it was true, and which you're now claiming otherwise here.

Welcome back vaxx!

I haven't heard the notion that it was true. You are polishing that statement. Reincarnation is philosophical understanding for now that is thoroughly scrutinised and well explained.

EmperorHarry:

Yes buda there is a difference in life expectancy but I'm just trying to make you understand that one's afterlife beliefs doesn't decrease or increase a country's life expectancy although it has a influence albeit an insignificant and subjective one.
Nigerians praying for good health whilst cutting down trees and consuming questionable food stuffs etc only shows that the physical state of one's being is as a result of one's environment. A very religious country that prays 5 times a day but take their environment and healthy way of life seriously shouldn't have any problems smashing the average life span of countries in general. Take an example from the bible,Daniel and the 3 Israelites who refused to eat of the Kings meat and wine but took only vegetables.Now the point I'm drawing out this is not the mainstream point but that healthy living and high standard of living isn't dependent on the disillusion of an afterlife even tho it can influence it.
If health and physical condition had to with life expectancy then America would score below average but it depends on how long individuals in a community live regardless of their conditions which may or may not affect their life's span

I was stating a subjective opinion and not a verified fact. Do note that some would claim Europe is religious, yet most of Europe has life expectancies in the 80s. This disproves my claim. But we would need to define what we mean by "predominantly religious nations". And the difficulty in defining is shown by vaxx and I arguing whether Israel and Saudi Arabia are religious nations or not. By all measures, both are, but I'm saying it's not that simplistic.

Daniel, you presented above is a very good example. Afterlife stands for a whole heap of ideas, the main one being "belief", as opposed to 'understand', which is what I would say Daniel and his 3 friends understood.

It is my opinion that on the whole, people in countries that adopt a more scientific outlook live longer than those who depend more on the gods.

vaxx:
I haven't heard the notion that it was true. You are polishing that statement. Reincarnation is philosophical understanding for now that is thoroughly scrutinised and well explained.

So, reincarnation is not that people die and are reborn in anyway whatsoever, but that reincarnation is just a philosophical thought exercise?

I can live with that.

budaatum:

So, reincarnation is not that people die and are reborn in anyway whatsoever, but that reincarnation is just a philosophical thought exercise?

I can live with that.

NOBODY knows not even science. But it is well THOUGHT out philosophical conception.

vaxx:
NOBODY knows not even science.

I'm sure someone must have said on here that noone knows what happens after one is dead too. Except me, of course.

You die. We shove your dead body in a box, dig a hole six feet deep and drop you in it to feed the worms so you don't stink up the living!

budaatum:

I was stating a subjective opinion and not a verified fact. Do note that some would claim Europe is religious, yet most of Europe has life expectancies in the 80s. This disproves my claim. But we would need to define what we mean by "predominantly religious nations". And the difficulty in defining is shown by vaxx and I arguing whether Israel and Saudi Arabia are religious nations or not. By all measures, both are, but I'm saying it's not that simplistic.

Daniel, you presented above is a very good example. Afterlife stands for a whole heap of ideas, the main one being "belief", as opposed to 'understand', which is what I would say Daniel and his 3 friends understood.

It is my opinion that on the whole, people in countries that adopt a more scientific outlook live longer than those who depend more on the gods.

It's now your clearing things up..A scientific outlook does improve all areas of life but dependency on gods doesn't mean neglect or disregard of science. A deluded and consciously ignorant persons should be singled out from the whole when blame is been appropriated esp religion in Africa.
Our problems are much deeper than dependency on gods and afterlife beliefs.

budaatum:

I'm sure someone must have said on here that noone knows what happens after one is dead too. Except me, of course.

You die. We shove your dead body in a box, dig a hole six feet deep and drop you in it to feed the worms so you don't stink up the living!

That is what we all know which is valid and anything beyond that is certainly not know.

budaatum:

I'm sure someone must have said on here that noone knows what happens after one is dead too. Except me, of course.

You die. We shove your dead body in a box, dig a hole six feet deep and drop you in it to feed the worms so you don't stink up the living!

Lolll..SMH

vaxx:
That is what we all know which is valid and anything beyond that is certainly not know.

I know there's no beyond! You die. You rot. Worms eat you. The end!