Dede1:


I suggest you write you mean and mean what you write. You can not ask a thick skull to direct you to Ojukwu. If anybody is endowed with a psychotic skull, you have proven beyond reasonable doubt you fit the description. I thought you worth the time but obviously you are incarnate of a drooling dunce.

No. It is the other way around. You are not worth my time, you are nothing but a bag of useless hot air. You want Biafra, go ahead and get it if you think you can.
Your aggression towards me is misplaced. Go and declare your nonviolent independence. Ode!

Katsumoto:

To those who are alluding that since Fela did not sing a song in support of Biafra, he did not support it, you have to be aware of certain facts. During the civil war, Fela had not become a revolutionary singer. In the sixties, Fela's band was called Koola lobitos. His band changed to Africa 70 after he returned fron the US in 1970.

Everyone is aware of Fela's legacy, so I do not need to educate anyone. Anyone who tries to remove from the greatness of Fela is just being disingenuous.

Yet another piece of rabid claptrap from nairaland's resident revisionist historian .Just shut it with these baseless speculations.
In the one vein you are saying he was a non-political singer in the civil war period, which is true, then you are implying in this same period that he secretly supported Biafra!
It's all rubbish anyway, as he or any other right thinking Nigerian of non Eastern extraction, had no reason whatsoever to support such a doomed project.
As a matter of fact, the war was over as a strategic contest with the fall of Port Harcourt to the 3rd Marine Commando division in May 1968, well before Fela's visit to the United States. The consequent access to the high seas, control of maritime trade, and the lucrative oil fields put Gowon in an unassailable position.
Thereafter it was a matter of for how long Ojukwu would be able to  maintain tactical resistance before the inevitable capitulation.

tensor777:

Yet another piece of rabid claptrap from nairaland's resident revisionist historian .Just shut it with these baseless speculations.
In the one vein you are saying he was a non-political singer in the civil war period, which is true, then you are implying in this same period that he secretly supported Biafra!
It's all rubbish anyway, as he or any other right thinking Nigerian of non Eastern extraction, had no reason whatsoever to support such a doomed project.
As a matter of fact, the war was over as a strategic contest with the fall of Port Harcourt to the 3rd Marine Commando division in May 1968, well before Fela's visit to the United States. The consequent access to the high seas, control of maritime trade, and the lucrative oil fields put Gowon in an unassailable position.
Thereafter it was a matter of for how long Ojukwu would be able to  maintain tactical resistance before the inevitable capitulation. 

the only person who is posting rabid claptrap is you my friend, I am in agreement with Katsumoto - Fela DID support Biafra albeit covertly, what you have to understand is that Fela's identity was still evolving at that particular point in time, it was when he spent time in america with sandra isadore a militant black nationalist  that his eyes were opened to the injustice that prevails in this world against the black man.  Prior to Fela's visit to america he was just like any other african man, totally unaware of what was going on around him just driven by materialism.

He actually says it himself that he didnt know what it meant to be an african because he had been taught to aspire to the ways of the white man by everyone around him, his father sent him to europe to train as a doctor because that is what conservative africans beleived african sons should aspire to.  Fortunately for him he found his true calling which was as a musician. 

It is easy with the benefit of hindsight to describe Biafra as a doomed project but pray tell, what would have been your view if your entire family had been massacred by hausa lynch mobs in the north, if you had watched while your pregnant wife's stomach was split open by marauding gangs of hausa thugs how would you view the idea of seceding from such a group of people?

You say no right thinking NON EASTERN person would support such a project - thats a dead give away as to where you come from, i take it you are a yoruba man?  tell me what it is you have benefitted from your alliance with the hausa fulani oligarchy?  The thing that amuses me is that people like you have the guts to talk about pan africanism as if it is some detached ideology that exists in isolation, how is it that you will make the giant leap of being a pan africanist when you display such callous disregard for people whom you live in such close proximity to.

Let me correct your delusional analysis of the civil war - the nigerian army were only able to defeat biafra because they were financed and armed by britain and russia without the support of those two super powers they would have been forced to negotiate with Ojukwu. 

The fall of Port Harcourt occurred because Britain wanted the oil reserves in that regions secured first as a matter of priority, they did not want Ojukwu in contro of that region under any circumstances because of its financial and strategic importance.  the idea was to encircle and cut him off from that region.  Therefore before you start praising and genuflecting before the alter of these genocidal monsters why dont you take the time to understand things in depth.  People like you are the problem we have in nigeria today, people with no sense of morality, you come on here gloating and laughing over a tragedy which resulted in the death of over 3 million people with no sense of shame, are you aware that more people died in biafra than in rwanda?

cap28:

the only person who is posting rabid claptrap is you my friend, I am in agreement with Katsumoto - Fela DID support Biafra albeit covertly, what you have to understand is that Fela's identity was still evolving at that particular point in time, it was when he spent time in america with sandra isadore a militant black nationalist that his eyes were opened to the injustice that prevails in this world against the black man. Prior to Fela's visit to america he was just like any other african man, totally unaware of what was going on around him just driven by materialism.

Any concrete evidence to support that wild conjecture? In what way could he possibly have supported Biafra anyway?

cap28:

You say no right thinking NON EASTERN person would support such a project - thats a dead give away as to where you come from, i take it you are a yoruba man? tell me what it is you have benefitted from your alliance with the hausa fulani oligarchy? The thing that amuses me is that people like you have the guts to talk about pan africanism as if it is some detached ideology that exists in isolation, how is it that you will make the giant leap of being a pan africanist when you display such callous disregard for people whom you live in such close proximity to.

You are totally wrong there about my extraction. However I do not analyse such matters through an ethnic or sectarian prism. Personally I am wont to view the civil war as a clash of wills between Gowon and Ojukwu with the latter fatally overplaying his hand with his ill-fated declaration and his odd underestimation of Gowon's diplomatic and persuasive skills.

tensor777:

Yet another piece of rabid claptrap from nairaland's resident revisionist historian .Just shut it with these baseless speculations.
In the one vein you are saying he was a non-political singer in the civil war period, which is true, then you are implying in this same period that he secretly supported Biafra!
It's all rubbish anyway, as he or any other right thinking Nigerian of non Eastern extraction, had no reason whatsoever to support such a doomed project.
As a matter of fact, the war was over as a strategic contest with the fall of Port Harcourt to the 3rd Marine Commando division in May 1968, well before Fela's visit to the United States. The consequent access to the high seas, control of maritime trade, and the lucrative oil fields put Gowon in an unassailable position.
Thereafter it was a matter of for how long Ojukwu would be able to  maintain tactical resistance before the inevitable capitulation. 

Is there any need for this misplaced aggression? Where in my post did I state that Fela secretly supported Biafra? I hope comprehension is not a problem. I stated that, and I quote again 'To those who are alluding that since Fela did not sing a song in support of Biafra, he did not support it'. That simply implies that by not singing a song in support of Biafra, it remains indeterminate whether Fela was in support or not. In case you missed it, the point of my post was that Fela had not become politicised at the time of the war. So just like other Nigerians of non-eastern origin, he may have or not had sympathies for Biafra.

I honestly did not expect you to go so low as to resort to personal attacks. As it is becoming a pattern, I guess I was wrong about you.

Katsumoto:

Where in my post did I state that Fela secretly supported Biafra? I hope comprehension is not a problem. I stated that, and I quote again 'To those who are alluding that since Fela did not sing a song in support of Biafra, he did not support it'. That simply implies that by not singing a song in support of Biafra, it remains indeterminate whether Fela was in support or not. In case you missed it, the point of my post was that Fela had not become politicised at the time of the war. So just like other Nigerians of non-eastern origin, he may have or not had sympathies for Biafra.

I know exactly what you said. You were sort of hedging your bets. Again the pertinent question is why would Fela, at that time, have supported Ojukwu's fatally doomed project?
Soyinka I understand, as he has always had very reactionary views but I still don't see why anyone would link a Pan Africanist like Fela with something so reactionary.
The truth is that Ojukwu fought his war almost without any diplomatic or political support from powers, potentates and personalities outside his enclave. Even Easterners like Azikiwe and Njoku opposed him.
Only the French gave him wholehearted support and that was for their own strategic reasons.

tensor777:

Any concrete evidence to support that wild conjecture? In what way could he possibly have supported Biafra anyway?
You are totally wrong there about my extraction. However I do not analyse such matters through an ethnic or sectarian prism. Personally I am wont to view the civil war as a clash of wills between Gowon and Ojukwu with the latter fatally overplaying his hand with his ill-fated declaration and his odd underestimation of Gowon's diplomatic and persuasive skills.

why is it that whenever someone comes up with something that you find difficult to swallow, you dismiss it as "wild conjecture"? okay watch these:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CX1BYQiohg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aK9cVg2bU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oJdocv4fxA


Sandra Isadore met and dated Fela in Los Angeles in 1969 and Fela himself credits her for his reawakening, Sandra Isadore taught Fela a black african man what it meant to be a proud african, can you see the irony there? Here you had a continental african man who was trying to distance himself from his roots and on the other hand you had an african american woman saying -no be proud of who you are, these white people told us that africa is a primitiive and backward place but i know they are lying and im depending on you to prove these liars wrong!!!


I dont analyse nigeria's events through an ethnic prism either, i analyse them through the prism of objectivity and honesty, there is no sane human being that would look at the injustice of the biafran war and dismiss it in the cynical and detached way that you have been doing since this thread started.   How can you look at the atroctities committed in the name of war and simply wave it off as some sort of battle of the wills between Ojukwu and Gowon?

Gowon's so called diplomatic skills of persuasion would have amounted to nothing had britain not armed and backed him - you better wake up to who is really running the show in nigeria.

cap28:

Sandra Isadore met and dated Fela in Los Angeles in 1969 and Fela himself credits her for his reawakening, Sandra Isadore taught Fela a black african man what it meant to be a proud african, can you see the irony there? Here you had a continental african man who was trying to distance himself from his roots and on the other hand you had an african american woman saying -no be proud of who you are, these white people told us that africa is a primitiive and backward place but i know they are lying and im depending on you to prove these liars wrong!!!

Well the events you narrated are not in contention. However as I said by 1969 the war was  already over as a strategic contest really, so maybe he was  just concerned about the humanitarian situation in Biafra as many others were.

On the other hand as a Pan Africanist and a proponent of African unity he would not have been in favour of splintering or splitting the "Giant of Africa" if indeed Ojukwu would have been able to accomplish that.

tensor777:

Well the events you narrated are not in contention. However as I said by 1969 the war was  already over as a strategic contest really, so maybe he was  just concerned about the humanitarian situation in Biafra as many others were.

On the other hand as a Pan Africanist and a proponent of African unity he would not have been in favour of splintering or splitting the "Giant of Africa" if indeed Ojukwu would have been able to accomplish that.

tensor you are missing something here, the fact that Fela was a pan africanist does not mean that he was also in support of the artificial borders that had been imposed upon us by the european colonialists - this splitting or splintering that you talk about was merely a desire by a  people who had been forced into an artificial contraption to break away from it and try and build a life in which they could exert control over their own destiny. 

Would you want to live within close proximity to a murderous and hostile people who killed over 50,000 of your kinsmen?

Would you feel comfortable living with a people who regard you as fair game, to be preyed upon and attacked at the slightest whim?

what is wrong with a people desiring to break away from a dangerous and hostile territory in which ones safety or property could not be guaranteed?

Pan africanism is still possible even if africa splits up into thousands of tiny nations, the important thing is our ability to live alongside each other and have mutual respect for each other, as i ve said before these artificial contraptions were not created to foster unity amongst africans they were created purely to aid the colonial administrators in their plunder and pillage of the continent, the creation of these fake countries gave birth to the creation of various comprador cliques whose job was to take over the reigns of power on behalf of the colonialists.

The british (and the northerners for that matter!!) do not want nigeria to split because if nigeria splits that means their northern puppets will have to say good bye to the oil reserves, why do we like to make simple things seem complicated, its so obvious!!!!

cap28:

tensor you are missing something here, the fact that Fela was a pan africanist does not mean that he was also in support of the artificial borders that had been imposed upon us by the european colonialists - this splitting or splintering that you talk about was merely a desire by a  people who had been forced into an artificial contraption to break away from it and try and build a life in which they could exert control over their own destiny. 

Would you want to live within close proximity to a murderous and hostile people who killed over 50,000 of your kinsmen?

Would you feel comfortable living with a people who regard you as fair game, to be preyed upon and attacked at the slightest whim?

what is wrong with a people desiring to break away from a dangerous and hostile territory in which ones safety or property could not be guaranteed?

Pan africanism is still possible even if africa splits up into thousands of tiny nations, the important thing is our ability to live alongside each other and have mutual respect for each other, as i ve said before these artificial contraptions were not created to foster unity amongst africans they were created purely to aid the colonial administrators in their plunder and pillage of the continent, the creation of these fake countries gave birth to the creation of various comprador cliques whose job was to take over the reigns of power on behalf of the colonialists.

The british (and the northerners for that matter!!) do not want nigeria to split because if nigeria splits that means their northern puppets will have to say good bye to the oil reserves, why do we like to make simple things seem complicated, its so obvious!!!!

Fam, u took ur pills today?!

what has Niger Delta got to do with this? Ibos, Yorubas and Hausa should stay very very clear from us or you people will never experience peace in your life again.

noru:

what has Niger Delta got to do with this? Ibos, Yorubas and Hausa should stay very very clear from us or you people will never experience peace in your life again.

Will shut your disease infested asss up. Nigerdelta? Who asked about what you think? Ode. Why don't you go and rescue ur region anuofia?

Nigerdelta has a whole lot to do with it you dunce. What is Nigerdelta? Is there anything special about that region? I mean seriously some of you from that region reason like complete dummies. No wonder Hausa and Yoruba have been using and dumping you and are still doing. Leave the Igbo out of this. The last time I checke Igbos are also Nigerdeltans or whatever the 4k the Nigerian govt termed you so SHTFU.

i would expect anything from fela. i love fela.

cap28:

Pan africanism is still possible even if africa splits up into thousands of tiny nations, the important thing is our ability to live alongside each other and have mutual respect for each other, as i ve said before these artificial contraptions were not created to foster unity amongst africans they were created purely to aid the colonial administrators in their plunder and pillage of the continent, the creation of these fake countries gave birth to the creation of various comprador cliques whose job was to take over the reigns of power on behalf of the colonialists.
The british (and the northerners for that matter!!) do not want nigeria to split because if nigeria splits that means their northern puppets will have to say good bye to the oil reserves, why do we like to make simple things seem complicated, its so obvious!!!!

You are wasting your time pusuing this argument with me as I would never ever agree to splintering Nigeria and it would never happen in the first place. By accident or design Nigeria has already become a heterogenous, multicultural society so anybody thinking of splitting the country along ethnic or sectarian lines is just living in cloud cuckoo land!
What is more,talking about artificial contraptions and what have you is neither here nor there. And so what if it is? Does that change anything? In fact ALL countries that were colonized, including USA are artificial contraptions by your reactionary way of thinking.

@CAP 28

You're right, hindsight is 20/20.
As "a very intelligent and upstanding individual",
Nzeogwu should had weigh the pros and cons
of their intentions in dept.
My criticism of him is not base on the tribalistic
executions of the coup. It is based on their act
of opening or initiating a criminal manner of Govt change.
He or they should have know, that, their own coup certainly
wont be the last. They introduced military criminality to the conscience
to the conscience of the society, certainly, other ambitious officers, or
people were bound to emulate their steps to effect govt change in the future.

You said " Had he succeeded you and i would have been having a totally
different conversations today----"

I disagree with this your above quote. I cannot see anyway he would have
be successful. Though there are chances the coup succeeded, and he had
his ways, by making himself or others the head of govt. But, that certainly
will not be the end of it. Him or whoever he imposed would have be changed
in due course by his inner members or outsider again by violence. So, his
introduction of military criminal intrusion that derailed the young nation is
what i fault him for.
I agree, British colonial elements rigged and manipulated the election to favor
their interest. This their attitude is apparent today in Iraq, Afghan's., Pakistan
and other nations they are working to pacify. However, there are many ways
to tame the shrude. Education of the masses is a better way in my opinion.

Now, you imagine, a condition where there were no military intrusions into
our governance. The 1st, 2ND and all successive administrations were changed
without military- force criminal intrusions. We would certainly have grow and prosper
without all the unnecessary pains we had experienced. So i fault Nzeogwu and his gang
for opening that can of worms (coup) into the nation's consciousness.Military intervention
was/is never a legal frame for effecting a govt change in the constitution. They should have
be treated as a common criminals that they were. And the rightful civilian successors sworn in.

amazonia:

@CAP 28

You're right, hindsight is 20/20.
As "a very intelligent and upstanding individual",
Nzeogwu should had weigh the pros and cons
of their intentions in dept.
My criticism of him is not base on the tribalistic
executions of the coup. It is based on their act
of opening or initiating a criminal manner of Govt change.
He or they should have know, that, their own coup certainly
wont be the last. They introduced military criminality to the conscience
to the conscience of the society, certainly, other ambitious officers, or
people were bound to emulate their steps to effect govt change in the future.

You said " Had he succeeded you and i would have been having a totally
different conversations today----"

I disagree with this your above quote. I cannot see anyway he would have
be successful. Though there are chances the coup succeeded, and he had
his ways, by making himself or others the head of govt. But, that certainly
will not be the end of it. Him or whoever he imposed would have be changed
in due course by his inner members or outsider again by violence. So, his
introduction of military criminal intrusion that derailed the young nation is
what i fault him for.
I agree, British colonial elements rigged and manipulated the election to favor
their interest. This their attitude is apparent today in Iraq, Afghan's., Pakistan
and other nations they are working to pacify. However, there are many ways
to tame the shrude. Education of the masses is a better way in my opinion.

Now, you imagine, a condition where there were no military intrusions into
our governance. The 1st, 2ND and all successive administrations were changed
without military- force criminal intrusions. We would certainly have grow and prosper
without all the unnecessary pains we had experienced. So i fault Nzeogwu and his gang
for opening that can of worms (coup) into the nation's consciousness.Military intervention
was/is never a legal frame for effecting a govt change in the constitution. They should have
be treated as a common criminals that they were. And the rightful civilian successors sworn in.

I don't think you really appreciate what Nzeogwu was trying to do during that coup, what we call the January 66 coup was really a revolution. 

You described military intervention as a criminal way of changing govt, i beg to differ - the issue is not the manner in which power is seized but the intention of the people seeking to topple the existing govt - if the intention is to remove a corrupt system in order to address corruption, inequality and injustice then it doesnt matter if it is done by way of military intervention, sometimes it may become necessary to use violence particularly if the elements that you are trying to get rid of refuse to go quietly. 

Fidel Castro seized power from the corrupt puppet govt of Batista in Cuba some of the corrupt officials who refused to go quietly had to be executed because they were a threat to the stability and progress of the incoming revolutionary govt.

Despite all of this Castro has remained in power since 1959 and Cuba is a much better place for the ordinary Cuban, no right thinking Cuban (apart from the beneficiaries of Batista's govt) would want Cuba to go back to how it was before the revolution.

Another example is Libya - Gadaffi seized power in 1969 by way of a coup d'etat in order to depose pro west King Idris, Gadaffi's coup was bloodless however it was welcomed by the Libyan people becaue the former regime was simply incapable of addressing the needs of average Libyans.

To blame Nzeogwu for the succession of coups that have occurred post January 66 is simply a failure on your part to see the truth of what he was trying to do.  These successive coups have merely been power tussles over control of the oil resources, Nzeogwu had a vision as to where he felt nigeria should be and where he wanted it to go, he can never and should never be held responsible for the subsequent power tussles that have been going on in Nigeria.

CAP 28,

CUBA, LIBYA?
These are no societies we should want to emulate.
These are dictatorship nations till today.
Cuba is still trying to emerge from the 1950s.
Neither of the two have a workable peaceful design
for successions of govts up till today.

Moreover, without their military interventions in govt,
these nations would have been more than what they are
now developmentally. Sometimes, good things, take lot of time to achieve.
The uncertainty that await Libya after the death of Qaddafi is yet to be realized.
Let thank God for what we have now. And hope to perfect it for the next and unborn generations to come.

cap28:


Despite all of this Castro has remained in power since 1959 and Cuba is a much better place for the ordinary Cuban, no right thinking Cuban (apart from the beneficiaries of Batista's govt) would want Cuba to go back to how it was before the revolution.

Dude, to say ure crazy is to give u a huuuuuge compliment; ure completely off ur rocker! Ure insane! Why do u always like pretending like u "know". Cubans today feel their society is a better place? I got some Cubans in Miami that'll love to hear this crazy talk of urs. . . . just dont start the discussion with them without first taking ur Ruger off of "safety". Dumbaszz, wannabe intellectual!

Its about time we stop all these tribal lashings and hatings.How do we move on as a nation when all some sect does is to hate on other tribes? Having misplaced views or not is not the issue.Why hate at all? In anycase for the records Fela was an icon and made a huge mark in Afrika.He deserves respect and nothing short of that.

We were never a country. THis contraption called Nigeria will blow up someday soon into smitherens. I cannot wait to see when that will happen and then this community of mad men would each seat back in the comfort of wherever you individually are commenting from and come up with theories of what went wrong. Definitely history will vindicate the just, it is a matter of time.

And when the holocaust befauls this geographical identity, it wount be the ibos losing 3m souls, they have become much the wiser, other national groups will weep and gnash their teeth because then they will all get a true feel of what it means to gang up against a people seeking for self and sovereign emancipation.

On Aburi we stand!!!

hardbody:

We were never a country. THis contraption called Nigeria will blow up someday soon into smitherens. I cannot wait to see when that will happen and then this community of mad men would each seat back in the comfort of wherever you individually are commenting from and come up with theories of what went wrong. Definitely history will vindicate the just, it is a matter of time.

What has all this pointless whining got to do with the topic. If you want to discuss the possibility of future civil wars in Nigeria why not open a thread for that?

This thread has legs. Wow! My pages are making the homepage.

EzeUche0:

This thread has legs. Wow! My pages are making the homepage.

It gives u a hard-on, dont it?!

bk.babe97y:

It gives u a hard-on, dont it?!

You are gay for saying that. Why are you thinking about what gets me hard?

EzeUche0:

You are gay for saying that. Why are you thinking about what gets me hard?

Yes, I'm gay and I aint denying it!

However, u failed to answer my question. . . .

It gives u a hard-on dont it!?