Gassa007:
And your father will teach the medical students abi?

leave the idiot na

Ok thanks

Gnaeusmagnus:


I'm not arguing against the PhD requirement, I'm merely pointing out the difference between ICAN and fellowship for consultant exams.

Sorry you missed it

[s]

FrLukas:
Opportunity to go to their private clinics and make money.

[/s]

Ok

Misleading tittle

They will still continue giving medical services to patients in hospitals

webgenius:
This is the usual problem with our society. Inadequate knowledge and a desire to generalise all issues. The question we should seek an answer to dispassionately is what is the best practice all over the world? Is what NUC is advocating workable? In most parts of the world medical teaching and practice is carried out by Fellowship-trained Consultants in Clinical Medicine. PhD is required by Graduate medical doctors in the Bassic Sciences and no one is contesting that. The contentious issue is with Clinical Medicine. PhD degrees are not required of academicians in clinical medicine all over the world and it must also be stated that academic papers from Colleges of Medicine, even with our current state, still outclass and outnumber those from all other faculties in almost all Universities in Nigeria and outside Nigeria. Many academic clinicians have also been Professors and Vice-Chancellors of Nigerian universities, and in fact many clinical departments in Nigerian Universities have the highest number of Professors in any faculty in almost all Nigerian Universities.
What then is the recent mis-directive from the NUC? Is it the new battleground between doctors and non doctors within the Nigerian society?
It may surprise many that this recommendation by the NUC is unworkable at this time in our history, maybe in about 30-50 years. At this time, no Nigerian university has programs for PhD in the clinical sciences before the last 2-3 years, not even the reputable University of Ibadan. How can you then wake up and demand PhD certification from clinical lecturers?
The fellowship program run by the National Postgraduate Medical College and the West African Postgraduate Medical College is far more rigorous than a PhD Dissertation and also has substancial academic training as part of the curriculum.
NUC should be working with these institutions to strengthen the training of medical personnel for our country, not trying to stifle or muzzle others into a strait jacket to achieve some personal vainglorious objectives.

I agree with you on this. Infact you gave the best response to the issue at hand

0m0nnakoda:

Those Consultants who want to be professors MUST have doctorates. That is not even up for debate so what is clear is most antagonists have no understanding of the issues.
Over 90% of those who teach medical students in clinical years have no formal relationships with the Medical School/universities.
They are the ones, the ONLY ONES( or other doctors under their supervision ) who teach medical students to listen to the chest ,to examine ,the ,abdomen,deliver babies etc.
A Phd who is not a Fellow CANNOT do that in a teaching or General Hospital. A Phd who is not a Fellow CANNOT have an unsupervised relationship with a patient in a teaching Hospital .
Such a PhD CANNOT do unsupervised teaching on a ward or outpatient clinics and MUST work Under a Fellow.
What happens in Lecture theatres is a complete role reversal but clinical medicine happens in the Labour room not the Lecture theatres


What the Consultants are saying is if you bring these medical students to my clinic or my ward or my theatre they cannot have any kind of contact with my patients unless I approve
Do not send them to my clinic if you bring in these rules let me focus on treatment and not do any teaching.
Legally a patient has every right to refuse medical students but such rights are never explained to patients in Nigeria. Rather Consultants coerce patients in Teaching Hospitals to allow medical students to poke and prod them for no other reason than learning. Sometimes students make mistakes or misbehave and the Consultants can be struck off for their behaviour. So Consultants take significant PERSONAL risks to help medical education
Who needs who more?

By law only a person who has a driving licence can sit in a vehicle on a motorway and teach an unlicensed driver. Not even a Phd from the transport university in Daura can change that.

once you are a staff in teaching hospital you must teach,,,no need for stories abeg

Vaughanlanrewaj:
Seems sanity is gradually settling in Nigeria. A lot of anomaly started in 1985 but thank God people are doing the needful. You don't need to be an academic with residency but if you must be an academic, do the needful like other career academicians even in Pharmacy et al. Get a PhD!

pharmacy doesn't do residency na!!

Sodiquinone:


once you are a staff in teaching hospital you must teach,,,no need for stories abeg

that's a lie

Sodiquinone:


once you are a staff in teaching hospital you must teach,,,no need for stories abeg

They just said they are stopping that so its NUC"s move next.
Let's see.....

Where are they?
Children of hate and anguish...

Gnaeusmagnus:


A large proportion of our university lecturers don't have PhDs.

Really I have no objection to docs getting PhDs, but the issue is many may drop out of lecturing students because of the PhD requirement

Meaning we don't have enough lecturers in the medical school. That has impact on numbers and quality of doctors

which school did you attend? Just curious. Because I was never taught by a lecturer without a PHD

0m0nnakoda:

That is the most painful thing a doctor can do,to send medical students away

It's so painful!!!
To go through years of rigorous Residency training finally become a Consultant, get employed in a teaching hospital and be told you can't teach Medical Students cause you don't have a PHD?

Hell my combined credit load in pathology and pharmacology in year 4 is higher than the work load of the average doctorate degree in Nigeria.

funmisticqueen2:
that's a lie

He's actually right.
All doctors (from professors to house officers) in teaching hospitals teach albeit unofficially.
But it's only Consultants that teach students in the classroom setting.

Yonce:


He's actually right.
All doctors (from professors to house officers) in teaching hospitals teach albeit unofficially.
But it's only Consultants that teach students in the classroom setting.

Not quite true

DCmonster:
NUC are bunch of hypocrites who thinks having a PhD is synonymous to academic brilliancy. I know lots of morons with PhD. Majority of these NUC executive were deprived of the opportunity to be a doctor, so they have serious beef and hatred for doctors. Idiots think it's easy to be a doctor. Show respect 100% you hypocritical NUC. Medical consultancy is superior to PhD!!!

I don't understand what the fuss is about, the instruction is clear. If you want to progress in the academic field get a PhD, simple. If you can't do that, get your ass from the Universities.

peacettw:


Not quite true

Where I'm training that is what happens.
We're taught by any doctor during the ward rounds but only Consultants teach us in the classrooms.

Yonce:


Where I'm training that is what happens.
We're taught by any doctor during the ward rounds but only Consultants teach us in the classrooms.

Interesting cos where I work the hospital consultants have no obligations to teach. The honorary consultants are the ones on strike now.

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peacettw:


Interesting cos where I work the hospital consultants have no obligations to teach. The honorary consultants are the ones on strike now.

No obligations? Wow.
In my school they take over teaching in classrooms after the 2nd MB till graduation.

Yonce:


No obligations? Wow.
In my school they take over teaching in classrooms after the 2nd MB till graduation.

They are most likely honorary consultants. They have a dual duty to the university and the hospital. Although to be fair, some hospital consultants do teach but they are not mandated to do so because their primary duty is to the patients. Also, it is less attractive financial wise to be an honorary consultant cos the pay from the university is quite poor. As a hospital consultant, you earn much more than the honorary consultant despite the later doing 2 jobs.

The chemist down my street is my doctor

I thought teaching is a choice. NUC says if you must teach, get a PhD. This is a must for all teachers in the university...not only those teaching medical students. What is the furry all about? If PhD is 'mere' and 'inferior' to Fellowship, why crying foul? Go get one if it is that easy. In the developed worlds, you don't get hired as a Faculty without a PhD.

Gnaeusmagnus:


That's the problem.

While I think the idea that doctors who want to lecture should get PhD is not a bad idea,(I think it would promote research in our medical colleges) the road to hell is often paved with good intentions

The fact that most consultants don't have PhDs is the issue.

....then they should ask for more time to meet up....not claim their Fellowship is equivalent...some even say ...superior to...PhD.
If it is not PhD, there is none like it. The NUC sets standards for training of manpower...by law. The NHC has allowed them in the past to get away with this nonsense. Best practice requires they get a PhD. The trend in many countries is to run MD/PhD program where those who intend to be academics can enrol into. It is both clinical and substantial research component. The Research component of the Fellowship program is not deep. That you do the Fellowship in 8-10 years doesn't make it equivalent or let alone superior to a PhD. The standard PhD is a minimum of 3 yrs after an academic Masters degree, which itself takes about 2-3 yrs to complete. Many finish PhD from 5 yrs upwards. Should that makes theirs superior to those who obtained their own in 3 yrs? Absolutely no. It is not about how long you do a program.

ybn:
I thought teaching is a choice. NUC says if you must teach, get a PhD. This is a must for all teachers in the university...not only those teaching medical students. What is the furry all about? If PhD is 'mere' and 'inferior' to Fellowship, why crying foul? Go get one if it is that easy. In the developed worlds, you don't get hired as a Faculty without a PhD.

It seems you don't get a grasp of the issue at hand, there's even no where in Nigeria to get the degrees NUC is requesting of doctors. who does a PhD in Cardiology after becoming a cardiologist and to what end? from 300l upwards in medical training what you need most to teach medical students is experience and not necessarily qualifications. From the ward rounds to tutorials, to the clinics to discussion groups and all, if only PhD holders are required to teach and train the next set of Doctors better get ready for the disaster class that would be produced from the next 4 years on.

Sadly this is a battle NUC can't win because even the medical students are worse hit by this action of the consultants because the patients would not be affected in anyway it the physician hat would take care of you and your children tomorrow they're fighting for...

very bleeped up country... imagine doctors going on strike
see careers in medicine you might want to consider https://explicitsuccess.com/how-to-manage-a-business-when-sick/

billbonesmd:
Where are they?
Children of hate and anguish...

You still need the postgraduate training at MD level...which expectedly will have an expanded research component. Elsewhere, it is called MD/PhD.
...NUC isn't wrong afterall...

peacettw:
I totally support this move. The residency training alone should suffice for multiple PhDs

I never knew physicians in Nigeria answer 'Professors' without earning PhDs. That's fraudulent in my view.

In other climes it is practically, all professors of medical courses earn PhDs not fellowships all medical books and articles I've seen are written by consultants with MD, PhD suffix after their names.

NUC must not shift ground, all the consultant earning fat pay as lecturers in our medical colleges must go back and earm their PhDs as obtainable in advanced countries.

NUC should not allow itself to be blackmailed, the FG should get ready to replace the so called consultants. There are many jobless or underpaid physicians, let them take over after FG sacks the overfed consultants who earn double allowance as clinicians and as lecturers (without PhD).

Nigerians stand behind NUC.

Gnaeusmagnus:


A large proportion of our university lecturers don't have PhDs.

Really I have no objection to docs getting PhDs, but the issue is many may drop out of lecturing students because of the PhD requirement

Meaning we don't have enough lecturers in the medical school. That has impact on numbers and quality of doctors

This is blackmail and Nigerians will no longer budge to it.

No PhD, then they should get out of the classrooms and stop armstwisting the FG to bend rules for them. In the UK, Canada, US, it is MD, PhD not fellowships, before you can teach medical students. The illegality must stop. The FG should sack them from the classroom, they are ones indoctrinating our young physicians in training that they can get anything from government as long as they threaten Nigerians with strikes. They are even claiming that their fellowships are bigger than PhDs, what a nonsense! In the Academia? Tufia!

NUC must not stand down on this.

Correcto:
What an irritating comment! The problem with you guys is that you underrate every qualification except yours. If you don't want to have PhD then leave the university and work only in the hospital.

What is the big deal in having a PhD? A fellowship is equal to multiple PhDs.