ezeagu:

[size=18pt]Nigeria would be better now if it were still a British colony.[/size]

Truth.

Quote from: ROSSIKE on Yesterday at 10:46:11 PM
ezeagu said:


Picking at things? You call a 7% literacy rate at independence ''picking at things''?

It's not your fault actually. Afterall, if the Nigerian govt had not decided to bring mass education to the people, you would not have been here typing praise to those who preferred you to be illiterate!

I don't know where you're getting the percent from, literacy was different from area to area.

Of course it was different ''from area to area''.  We are talking about NATIONAL LITERACY RATE.

Just like today when you condemn the Nigerian govt, you never excuse them on the basis that ''Oh, poverty levels are different from area to area'', why because, for you it is one rule for your white lords and another for your compatriots.

You're picking at things, and you have no solid point except for "the British were bad!"

My posts have been filled with solid points against British rule, none of which you've been able to contest.

We're not talking about their intentions, we're talking about what they did and what they were going to do

Are you currently judging the Nigerian govt on what it says it is ''going to do''?

NO.

You judge them on WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.

But again, it is one rule for your pale skinned, white masters, and another rule for your compatriots.

and much of it was positive for Nigerians. You're here arguing in English and you say it's because of the Nigerian government. I wonder if this is the same Nigeria where people would rather go to University abroad.

At least they have a choice of going to uni in Nigeria OR overseas.

Under the British what choices were they? They built no university at all in the country in 90 years. If they did, name them. And how many people could send their kids to Europe or America for university? Today even Onitsha traders send their kids to Europe for uni if they want.

What ''whole railway'' did the British build? One track that went from Nguru (north) to Lagos (south). Another that went from Maiduguri (north) to Port Harcourt (south). All tracks led to the PORTS.

So a railway stretching several hundred miles to a port isn't a whole railway? Two they built. So the railway did nothing for Nigerian cities and economies?

They did a lot for the export of Nigerian resources. The Nigerian economy was designed by the British to be a raw materials source for western industries. The people were barred from adding value to raw materials. The western nations and Britain imposed very high tarriffs on value added products from the colonies. The train routes that led to the ports alone were a direct offshoot of that policy. Thus the railways were not designed for the internal market or to generate internal productivity, industrialization and commerce, but to service the colonial economic policy. It wasn't done for YOUR benefit, but for THEIRS. Even the skeletal road network they built was designed for one thing - the evacuation of Nigerian resources.

You need to understand the REASON for colonial rule in the first place before rushing to proclaim its ''benefits''.

As a source states:

''It was the need to ensure that the exploitation of Nigeria's resources for the benefit of the [British] empire was undertaken in a more efficient manner that led to colonial rule. Thus during the early decades of colonial rule, the colonial authorities in Nigeria were concerned with the provision of basic infrastructure and services in the country[b] to the extent that they were required to enhance the sourcing and shipment of raw materials to Britain''[/b]

Read that one more time since you seem a bit slow.

Defender of colonialist THIEVES.

You sound like a mad person on the street instead of someone that's trying to explain themselves. Or do you not just sound?

But you ARE a defender of colonialist thieves. I've spent pages ''explaining myself'' yet your slavish adulation of the do-nothing Brits continues unabated.

But for the vast majority of Nigerians, the British colonial rulers did a big fat NOTHING.

Hospitals, roads, education, ports, new cities, planned cities, nothing?

Which hospitals? Name them. What ''education''??

Ports!! Did we not have ''ports'' before the white man arrived??

New cities? I don't see any Cape Town, Johannesburg, or Pretoria built by the British using Nigerian resources.

What ''new cities,'' and ''planned cities'' are you referring to? Calabar? Kaduna?

You simply cannot come here and play dumb and not expect to be shown the door.  Coming here to call provincial administrative backwaters with one or two major roads then, ''NEW CITIES'' built by the British is an INSULT to Nigerians.

That is why, despite, your ridiculous objections, the vast majority of our grandparents and great grandparents were STARK ILLITERATES.

I think this is a regional thing then, because the majority of old people I've met can speak English better than younger Nigerians today. If you're grandparents are illiterates it does not mean everybody else has illiterate ones.

You must be a 15 year old kid with 50 year old grandparents to type this drivel. Or you're some pampered adult that's never really mixed with real Nigerians. Do you even visit the rural areas where the majority of Nigerian grandparents and great grandparents live? I highly doubt it or you wouldn't embarass yourself here.

The overwhelming majority of Nigerians who were of school age before independence are ILLITERATES.

NOT because Nigeria couldn't afford to educate them, (afterall where did Awo suddenly find the money to enact free education right after independence?).

But because the ROGUE COLONIAL REGIME you slavishly support deliberately WITHELD education from the majority.

Maybe they withheld education from some regions for political games, okay, but there are many people who will remind you of schools built as early as the 1890's.

Ridiculous. Schools were built in Nigeria even under Abacha. The question is QUANTITY? How many did they leave you before 1960? What was your national literacy rate when they left?

Don't come here playing dumb with ''Oh you know they built schools as early as 1890''. We want figures. Statistics.

Any idea why they did not build a single university in Nigeria for nearly 60 years between 1900 and 1960??

THAT ALONE is enough to convince any person with his head screwed on right, of the diabolical, useless nature of British colonial rule. This was a government that was exporting billions of dollars in today's money worth of resources from Nigeria annually. WHAT EXCUSE DO YOU HAVE FOR THEIR GROSS DERELICTION OF DUTY?

You must really think people here are stuppid.

If a Nigerian regime did that you would abuse them no end. One rule for the whites, another for your compatriots.

I'm not slavishly supporting anything, I just like to say the truth when I see it

You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to you and whacked you in the face.

and let me say it again.

Nigeria would be better now if it were still a British colony.

Based on what evidence?

If they did nothing substantial in their first 100 years, what makes you think the following 50 would have been any much better?

[size=20pt]The colour of their skin does not constitute sufficient evidence of your claim.[/size]

Nigeria: Infant mortality rate under colonial rule:

http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?IndicatorID=25&Country=NG

Today that figure is down to 92.99 per 1000, from 165 per 1000 under British rule, and 100 per 1000 in 2002.

Despite our population increasing THREEFOLD since independence, we managed to cut infant mortality rates by nearly HALF in just 50 years.

It's remarkable progress for a huge population like Nigeria, showing far greater investment in public health and nutrition by post-independence regimes than occurred under colonial rule.

Yet some people want the British back, perhaps so it can revert to 165 per thousand! 

All because they are hypnotized by white skin colour.  Tragic.

ROSSIKE:



Of course it was different ''from area to area''.  We are talking about NATIONAL LITERACY RATE.

Just like today when you condemn the Nigerian govt, you never excuse them on the basis that ''Oh, poverty levels are different from area to area'', why because, for you it is one rule for your white lords and another for your compatriots.

There's a reason why I said from area to area and it was explained later. If I'm supposed to judge the Nigerian governments progress from how much more it does than the colonial government before, there still will be no competition and what a sad low competition it is.

ROSSIKE:

At least they have a choice of going to uni in Nigeria OR overseas.

Under the British what choices were they? They built no university at all in the country in 90 years. If they did, name them. And how many people could send their kids to Europe or America for university? Today even Onitsha traders send their kids to Europe for uni if they want.

University of Ibadan, college of the University of London.

People could send their children overseas like they do now, of course there was no reason to back then for most people.

ROSSIKE:

They did a lot for the export of Nigerian resources. The Nigerian economy was designed by the British to be a raw materials source for western industries. The people were barred from adding value to raw materials. The western nations and Britain imposed very high tarriffs on value added products from the colonies. The train routes that led to the ports alone were a direct offshoot of that policy. Thus the railways were not designed for the internal market or to generate internal productivity, industrialization and commerce, but to service the colonial economic policy. It wasn't done for YOUR benefit, but for THEIRS. Even the skeletal road network they built was designed for one thing - the evacuation of Nigerian resources.

You need to understand the REASON for colonial rule in the first place before rushing to proclaim its ''benefits''.

So the stations in different cities on the railway were where the trains stopped only to steal peoples goods and then sell them in London?

ROSSIKE:

As a source states:

''It was the need to ensure that the exploitation of Nigeria's resources for the benefit of the empire was undertaken in a more efficient manner that led to colonial rule. Thus during the early decades of colonial rule, the colonial authorities in Nigeria were concerned with the provision of basic infrastructure and services in the country[b] to the extent that they were required to enhance the sourcing and shipment of raw materials to Britain''[/b]


But you ARE a defender of colonialist thieves. I've spent pages ''explaining myself'' yet your slavish adulation of the do-nothing Brits continues unabated.

You can't understand somebody else. When did you miss the part saying this was not about the intention of the British but all the positive things their colonial rule did for Nigeria?

ROSSIKE:

Which hospitals? Name them. What ''education''??

No there were no hospitals at all in Nigeria, British officials and missionaries came to spend decades in mosquito filled Nigeria without any medical stations anywhere. Are you actually serious? And you ask me "What education" again in perfect English.

ROSSIKE:

Ports!! Did we not have ''ports'' before the white man arrived??

Slave ports?

ROSSIKE:

New cities? I don't see any Cape Town, Johannesburg, or Pretoria built by the British using Nigerian resources.

What ''new cities,'' and ''planned cities'' are you referring to? Calabar? Kaduna?

[size=18pt]LAGOS COLONY[/size] Enugu, [size=18pt]PORT HARCOURT[/size], Jos, Calabar, Owerre, Onitsha, etc all either new or planned by the British, even Ibadan was risen again under the British.

ROSSIKE:

You simply cannot come here and play dumb and not expect to be shown the door.  Coming here to call provincial administrative backwaters with one or two major roads then, ''NEW CITIES'' built by the British is an INSULT to Nigerians.

Well, you don't know anything about your history. Next you'll say the British stole slaves from Nigerians.

ROSSIKE:

You must be a 15 year old kid with 50 year old grandparents to type this drivel. Or you're some pampered adult that's never really mixed with real Nigerians. Do you even visit the rural areas where the majority of Nigerian grandparents and great grandparents live? I highly doubt it or you wouldn't embarass yourself here.

The overwhelming majority of Nigerians who were of school age before independence are ILLITERATES.

No, I'm actually talking about women like these:

http://images.biafranigeriaworld.com/BNW-Chinua-Achebe-Foundation-Margaret-Ekpo-2.jpg
http://napsnigeria.org/files/Olufumilayo_kuti.gif

And the rest.

ROSSIKE:

Ridiculous. Schools were built in Nigeria even under Abacha. The question is QUANTITY? How many did they leave you before 1960? What was your national literacy rate when they left?

Don't come here playing dumb with ''Oh you know they built schools as early as 1890''. We want figures. Statistics.

Any idea why they did not build a single university in Nigeria for nearly 60 years between 1900 and 1960??

THAT ALONE is enough to convince any person with his head screwed on right, of the diabolical, useless nature of British colonial rule.

Now you're being really silly.

ROSSIKE:

This was a government that was exporting billions of dollars in today's money worth of resources from Nigeria annually.

Some things never change?

ROSSIKE:

You must really think people here are stuppid.

Some.

ROSSIKE:

If a Nigerian regime did that you would abuse them no end.

If a "Nigerian regime" discovered electricity on their own I would not abuse them, in fact if the current "Nigerian regime" discovers electricity one day I will not abuse them for it.

ROSSIKE:

You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to you and whacked you in the face.

Like hospitals and universities, literacy, in fact, electricity did not exist before 1960 in Nigeria. My face ooooh!

ROSSIKE:

Based on what evidence?

Based on the evidence that hundreds of people weren't killing each other over Chelsea v Arsenal (true story).

ROSSIKE:

If they did nothing substantial in their first 100 years,

Except designing the whole foundation of the country you are defending. . . .

ROSSIKE:

what makes you think the following 50 would have been any much better?

Their design of the whole foundation of the country you are defending and the fact that they are the only ones that can handle it to be stable (or unstable), which was part of their design.

ROSSIKE:

[size=20pt]The colour of their skin does not constitute sufficient evidence of your claim.[/size]

Yes but their GDP and HDI does.

ROSSIKE:

Today that figure is down to 92.99 per 1000, from 165 per 1000 under British rule, and 100 per 1000 in 2002.

It's remarkable progress made in just 50 years for a huge population like Nigeria, showing far greater investment in public health and nutrition by post-independence regimes than occurred under colonial rule.

Yet some people want the British back, perhaps so it can revert to 165 per thousand! 

All because they are hypnotized by white skin colour.  Tragic.

Now you're comparing infant mortality rates between now and when African Americans weren't even in the cities to sit at the back of the bus. Had they even discovered DNA yet?

They have the "Common Wealth". That's what keeps them rich. Stupid former colonies who still believe they have to go to, or go through the UK to get what they need. By the way, Nigeria is among.

At least they have a choice of going to uni in Nigeria OR overseas.

Under the British what choices were they? They built no university at all in the country in 90 years. If they did, name them. And how many people could send their kids to Europe or America for university? Today even Onitsha traders send their kids to Europe for uni if they want.

University of Ibadan, college of the University of London.

They built a ''university college'' in Ibadan. It was not a full fledged university until 1963 AFTER they were kicked out. So the British built NO university in Nigeria. In the 50 years of self rule, Nigerians have built over 100 universities. The difference is clear except to a deluded colonized yes-man like you.

People could send their children overseas like they do now, of course there was no reason to back then for most people.

No reason? Well of course there was ''no reason'', since majority of parents themselves were illiterate courtesy of British misrule. Perhaps you're suggesting the ONE ''university college'' was sufficient for the whole 60 million population of Nigeria at the time. How thoughtless can you be?

You need to understand the REASON for colonial rule in the first place before rushing to proclaim its ''benefits''.

So the various stations in different cities on the railway was were the trains stopped only to steal peoples goods and then sell them in London?

You reason like a high school dropout. That there were ''various stations'' along the train routes does not obviate the fact of its essentially exploitative function.

Which hospitals? Name them. What ''education''??

No there were no hospitals at all in Nigeria, British officials and missionaries came to spend decades in mosquito filled Nigeria without any medical stations anywhere.

They built a few clinics for themselves I'm sure, In addition to a few token ones for the masses. But nothing worthy of being called a national health system. Is there any hospital built in your village by colonial rulers?

Ports!! Did we not have ''ports'' before the white man arrived??

Slave ports?

There is no such thing as a ''slave port''. Ports are not defined by the goods or merchandise passing through them at any one period. In pre-colonial Africa, ports were used for trade in a variety of products, which changed in nature over various epochs. International trade in Nigeria did not begin with colonialism.

New cities? I don't see any Cape Town, Johannesburg, or Pretoria built by the British using Nigerian resources.

What ''new cities,'' and ''planned cities'' are you referring to? Calabar? Kaduna?

LAGOS COLONY Enugu, PORT HARCOURT, Jos, Calabar, Owerre, Onitsha

These were administrative centers of govt. Not ''planned new cities''. The British did not lay any real infrastructure in ANY of those places. They did not build any vast housing estates, drainage systems, pipe-borne water or extensive road networks. Visit there today and 99% of the infrastructure was provided by POST COLONIAL NIGERIAN REGIMES.

You must be a 15 year old kid with 50 year old grandparents to type this drivel. Or you're some pampered adult that's never really mixed with real Nigerians. Do you even visit the rural areas where the majority of Nigerian grandparents and great grandparents live? I highly doubt it or you wouldn't embarass yourself here.

The overwhelming majority of Nigerians who were of school age before independence are ILLITERATES.

No, I'm actually talking about women like these:

http://images.biafranigeriaworld.com/BNW-Chinua-Achebe-Foundation-Margaret-Ekpo-2.jpg
http://napsnigeria.org/files/Olufumilayo_kuti.gif

Can you see when I say you're a kid with nothing upstairs? I'm talking the majority of Nigerians and you're mentioning Magaret Ekpo and Funmilayo Kuti, of the tiny elite?

This was a government that was exporting billions of dollars in today's money worth of resources from Nigeria annually.

Some things never change?

A LOT has changed. At least a dummy like you even got to learn to read and write courtesy of Nigerian rule.

If a Nigerian regime did that you would abuse them no end.

If a "Nigerian regime" discovered electricity on their own I would not abuse them, in fact if the current "Nigerian regime" discovers electricity one day I will not abuse them for it.

But you're praising the British for ''introducing electricity'' to Ikoyi? At least the majority of modern Nigerians have enjoyed electricity unlike less than 2% under your British do-nothing masters. Under the British, people without electricity couldn't even afford generators, and those who could, couldn't buy them because there was no wiring in their houses, courtesy of the do-nothing British regime which built no national grid in their 100 years rule.

You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to you and whacked you in the face.

Like hospitals and universities, literacy, in fact, electricity did not exist before 1960 in Nigeria. My face ooooh!

They existed in your colonized brain, and in Ikoyi, not in the real Nigeria.

If they did nothing substantial in their first 100 years,

Except designing the whole foundation of the country you are defending.

What ''foundation''?

Of what use is a ''foundation'' without the actual building?

The colour of their skin does not constitute sufficient evidence of your claim.

Yes but their GDP and HDI does.

THEIR GDP and THEIR HDI.

Do you see why I say you lack common sense?

That they made THEIR economy work for THEM does not mean they will make YOUR economy work for YOU.
In actual fact, THEIR whole raison detre for colonizing YOUR country was for the purpose of making THEIR country work for them at the expense of YOURS working for YOU. They cannot serve two masters.

That they would make things work in Nigeria is directly contradictory to their maintaining a prosperous economy in THEIR country, since they lack natural resources of their own, and depend on you to export yours raw to them, so they can generate jobs and wealth in THEIR country by processing them. Therefore they will NEVER make things work for you in YOUR country, or create conditions for your development or industrialisation even if they ruled you for a million years, because that would be tantamount to suicide for them.

That explains why they built no real infrastructure for you. It explains why they built no universities for you. It explains why they did virtually nothing for you except that which was merely tangential to their primary purpose of  extraction and evacuation of your resources.

Now take that basic bit of common sense and stop IMAGINING that merely because they are ''white people'' with a ''high GDP and HDI'', they will create similar conditions in YOUR country. Stop being NAIVE.

Source of UK Wealth -

BT, Shell, GlaxoSmithkline, BAT, AngloAmerica, Virgin,BA, BAE Systems, British Steel, Barclays, HSBC, Rolls Royce (Engines of which are used in most aircrafts inlcuding the new airbus- Boeing also pays a license to Rolls Royce for using the same design to make engines for their planes). This means that every time you board a flight from New York to Lagos, London to Accra etc, the British get paid. Astra-Zeneca, BBC, Burberry, Dyson, Unilever, PriceWaterHouse Coopers, Ernst & Young, Pret a Manger, Tesco (has a presence in America and China but under different names), The Body Shop plus many more.

The list of global brands below are no longer British owned however they are still British brands developed by the British and/or headquartered in the UK and still have tax obligations.

Jaguar, Cadburys, Aston Martin, Rolls Royce cars, Bentley cars, Mini Cooper, Land Rover and plenty of others.

The British still have plenty of overseas territories all over the world including the Caribbean and South America e.g. Falklands

Question: Before the British introduced palm oil to Malaysia from Nigeria there was absolutely nothing there that could have generated enough income to develop Malaysia to the standard that it is today. Why hasn't Nigeria done the same with their home grown product? Granted, some may say that the British did not impart the same knowledge on to the Nigerians as it did with the Malaysians but what is stopping Nigeria today from taking ownership of their own product?  The Nigeria is about 10 times bigger than Malaysia and can produce 10 times as much palm oil so what is the hold up?

Angiefan said:

Question: Before the British introduced palm oil to Malaysia from Nigeria there was absolutely nothing there that could have generated enough income to develop Malaysia to the standard that it is today.

WRONG. Palm oil was only one of the various sources of income for Malaysia. She was also involved heavily in mining, and more recently, PETROLEUM EXPORT, which has become the major foreign exchange earner for them. Malaysia is no longer the world's largest palm oil producer.

Why hasn't Nigeria done the same with their home grown product? Granted, some may say that the British did not impart the same knowledge on to the Nigerians as it did with the Malaysians but what is stopping Nigeria today from taking ownership of their own product? The Nigeria is about 10 times bigger than Malaysia and can produce 10 times as much palm oil so what is the hold up?

The main thing is there is only so much demand for palm oil in the first place. And there are other competing commodities being exploited, especially in the mining and agricultural sectors.

Nigeria also has undergone almost radical diversification away from petroleum in the last 10 years, another unheralded achievement.

ROSSIKE:


They built a ''university college'' in Ibadan. It was not a full fledged university until 1963 AFTER they were kicked out. So the British built NO university in Nigeria. In the 50 years of self rule, Nigerians have built over 100 universities. The difference is clear except to a deluded colonized yes-man like you.


No reason? Well of course there was ''no reason'', since majority of parents themselves were illiterate courtesy of British misrule. Perhaps you're suggesting the ONE ''university college'' was sufficient for the whole 60 million population of Nigeria at the time. How thoughtless can you be?



You reason like a high school dropout. That there were ''various stations'' along the train routes does not obviate the fact of its essentially exploitative function.



They built a few clinics for themselves I'm sure, In addition to a few token ones for the masses. But nothing worthy of being called a national health system. Is there any hospital built in your village by colonial rulers?

There is no such thing as a ''slave port''. Ports are not defined by the goods or merchandise passing through them at any one period. In pre-colonial Africa, ports were used for trade in a variety of products, which changed in nature over various epochs. International trade in Nigeria did not begin with colonialism.



These were administrative centers of govt. Not ''planned new cities''. The British did not lay any real infrastructure in ANY of those places. They did not build any vast housing estates, drainage systems, pipe-borne water or extensive road networks. Visit there today and 99% of the infrastructure was provided by POST COLONIAL NIGERIAN REGIMES.



Can you see when I say you're a kid with nothing upstairs? I'm talking the majority of Nigerians and you're mentioning Magaret Ekpo and Funmilayo Kuti, of the tiny elite?



A LOT has changed. At least a dummy like you even got to learn to read and write courtesy of Nigerian rule.


But you're praising the British for ''introducing electricity'' to Ikoyi? At least the majority of modern Nigerians have enjoyed electricity unlike less than 2% under your British do-nothing masters. Under the British, people without electricity couldn't even afford generators, and those who could, couldn't buy them because there was no wiring in their houses, courtesy of the do-nothing British regime which built no national grid in their 100 years rule.


They existed in your colonized brain, and in Ikoyi, not in the real Nigeria.


What ''foundation''?

Of what use is a ''foundation'' without the actual building?


THEIR GDP and THEIR HDI.

Do you see why I say you lack common sense?

That they made THEIR economy work for THEM does not mean they will make YOUR economy work for YOU.
In actual fact, THEIR whole raison detre for colonizing YOUR country was for the purpose of making THEIR country work for them at the expense of YOURS working for YOU. They cannot serve two masters.

That they would make things work in Nigeria is directly contradictory to their maintaining a prosperous economy in THEIR country, since they lack natural resources of their own, and depend on you to export yours raw to them, so they can generate jobs and wealth in THEIR country by processing them. Therefore they will NEVER make things work for you in YOUR country, or create conditions for your development or industrialisation even if they ruled you for a million years, because that would be tantamount to suicide for them.

That explains why they built no real infrastructure for you. It explains why they built no universities for you. It explains why they did virtually nothing for you except that which was merely tangential to their primary purpose of  extraction and evacuation of your resources.

Now take that basic bit of common sense and stop IMAGINING that merely because they are ''white people'' with a ''high GDP and HDI'', they will create similar conditions in YOUR country. Stop being NAIVE.

You don't know anything about Nigerian history so replying you again is a waste of time.

I love this thread!

ezeagu said

You don't know anything about Nigerian history so replying you again is a waste of time

Here's a word of advice: Put your dumb obstinacy to one side, zip your know-nothing trap, and LEARN from people like me who are here to SCHOOL YOU on Home Truths.

ROSSIKE:

Angiefan said:



WRONG. Palm oil was only one of the various sources of income for Malaysia. She was also involved heavily in mining, and more recently, PETROLEUM EXPORT, which has become the major foreign exchange earner for them. Malaysia is no longer the world's largest palm oil producer.

Palm oil is still a major player in the Malaysian industry.
So they are not the largest. Big deal! Indonesia which holds the title are still making use of an product that isn't indigenous to their land as are the Malaysians.

ROSSIKE:

The main thing is there is only so much demand for palm oil in the first place. And there are other competing commodities being exploited, especially in the mining and agricultural sectors.

Nigeria also has undergone almost radical diversification away from petroleum in the last 10 years, another unheralded achievement.

Indonesia

As of 2009, Indonesia was the largest producer of palm oil, surpassing Malaysia in 2006, producing more than 20.9 million tonnes. The Indonesian aspires to become the world's top producer of palm oil.[40] FAO data show production increased by over 400% between 1994–2004, to over 8.66 million metric tonnes.

In addition to servicing traditional markets, Indonesia is looking to put more effort into producing biodiesel. Major local and global companies are building mills and refineries, including PT. Astra Agro Lestari terbuka (150,000 tpa biodiesel refinery), PT. Bakrie Group (a biodiesel factory and new plantations), Surya Dumai Group (biodiesel refinery). Cargill (sometimes operating through CTP Holdings of Singapore, is building new refineries and mills in Malaysia and Indonesia, expanding its Rotterdam refinery to handle 300,000 tpa of palm oil, acquiring plantations in Sumatra, Kalimantan, the Indonesian peninsula and Papua New Guinea). Robert Kuok's Wilmar International Limited has plantations and 25 refineries across Indonesia, to supply feedstock to new biodiesel refineries in Singapore, Riau, Indonesia and Rotterdam.[35]
[edit] Malaysia

In 2008, Malaysia produced 17.7 million tonnes of palm oil on 4,500,000 hectares (17,400 sq mi) of land,[39] and was the second largest producer of palm oil, employing more than 570,000 people.[41] Malaysia is the world's second largest exporter of palm oil. About 60% of palm oil exports from Malaysia are shipped to China, the European Union, Pakistan, United States and India. They are mostly made into cooking oil, margarine, specialty fats and oleochemicals.

In December 2006, the Malaysian government initiated merger of Sime Darby Berhad, Golden Hope Plantations Berhad and Kumpulan Guthrie Berhad to create the world’s largest listed oil palm plantation player.[42] In a landmark deal valued at RM31 billion, the merger involved the businesses of eight listed companies controlled by Permodalan Nasional Berhad (PNB) and the Employees Provident Fund (EPF). A special purpose vehicle, Synergy Drive Sdn Bhd, offered to acquire all the businesses including assets and liabilities of the eight listed companies. With 543,000 hectares of plantation in a landbank, the merger resulted in an oil palm plantation entity that could produce 2.5 million tonnes of palm oil or 5% of global production in 2006. A year later, the merger completed and the entity was renamed Sime Darby Berhad.[43]

Again, why can't Nigeria get in on the act? The palm fruit is indigenous to their land and they could easily blow Indonesia and Malaysia out of the water in regards to production. Do you think if the British were able to grow a product like palm oil on their land they would ignore it like Nigeria is doing? It appears that in this case you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

^-- More generally, would be nice if we could fix agriculture in this country

AngieFan, what is stopping YOU from investing in palm oil?

Do you think it is government that invests in palm oil in Malaysia??

In Malaysia, the PRIVATE SECTOR controls palm oil production and exports. Our biggest problem in Nigeria is everyone sitting around waiting for GOVERNMENT to do everything, including build plantations for you. Go to trade websites and you will see numerous ads by private Nigerians selling palm oil on the international market. More are needed, and among those who are in it, greater collaboration is needed so as to collectively increase output.

So what is stopping YOU?

What stops any group of diaspora Nigerians right now from collaborating to acquire land and establish a palm oil plantation in Nigeria?

NOTHING! But they will be the first to come online to remind us of how ''Malaysia took palm oil seed from Nigeria and became the largest producers of it''.

They are waiting for Jonathan to leave what he's doing to start establishing palm oil plantations so we can ''compete with Malaysia''.

AngieFan, you are in UK or USA. YOU have the ability to get together with colleagues and start something in Naija.

If just 1/10th of the diasporans actually put their money where their mouths are, we wouldn't be here discussing this.

Next thing you know, the Chinese who are flooding Naija now will start establishing plantations and exporting palm oil, while you remain in America living in oversized houses and driving Jeep, while ''blaming Nigeria'' instead of coming home to contribute your quota.

I believe the Malaysian govt in wholly involved in the palm oil industry in their country. It all started when the British introduced the fruit to them under colonial rule but I have no idea why production didn't take off in Africa. I wonder why the British decided to ignore a rich large land like Nigeria to focus their efforts on production in Malaysia?

However that being said , I am not interested in palm oil production. Not for my forte or job at all. It is the governments job to come up with ideas and strategies to improve the economy of Nigeria, not mine. Agreed individuals can help but individuals alone do not have access to large funds/the ability to build huge processing plants or set up trade agreements with other countries to help export the product etc. That is why the people elected the government.

^ Fakegerian

Lots of them just giving advise while enjoying their air conditioned offices in obodo oyinbo.

Stop being an internet consultant offering advise we dont need them. We have lots of them in government office.

Angiefan said:

Agreed individuals can help but individuals alone do not have access to large funds/the ability to build huge processing plants

I don't think you know how capitalism works. Fact is individuals DO have access to ''large funds/ability to build processing plants''.  How do you think large companies and multinationals are formed? All you do is create a limited liability company, get some qualified, experienced people on your board, create a business plan, take it to a state government, get land concessions/official endorsement etc, and take the plan straight to a bank, either local or international.

If the plan is sound, you will receive your funding.

ROSSIKE:

ezeagu said


Here's a word of advice: Put your dumb obstinacy to one side, zip your know-nothing trap, and LEARN from people like me who are here to SCHOOL YOU on Home Truths.

The noise of someone who is empty.

ROSSIKE:

Angiefan said:

I don't think you know how capitalism works. Fact is individuals DO have access to ''large funds/ability to build processing plants''.  How do you think large companies and multinationals are formed? All you do is create a limited liability company, get some qualified, experienced people on your board, create a business plan, take it to a state government, get land concessions/official endorsement etc, and take the plan straight to a bank, either local or international.

If the plan is sound, you will receive your funding.  

Again, not my forte or line of work. But if the Malaysians Govt can create an economic boom with palm oil then why can't Nigerians? you still haven't ans the question.

Angiefan said:

Again, not my forte or line of work. But if the Malaysians Govt can create an economic boom with palm oil[b] then why can't Nigerians? you still haven't ans the question[/b].

You really don't get it do you?

Tell me something, are you not a Nigerian?

Do you know what the other four fingers do when you point one?

The private participants in Malaysia's oil palm industry, do you think palm oil was their ''line of work'' or their ''forte'' before they began investing heavily in it?

You see, you cannot be guilty of the same thing you're accusing ''Nigerians'' of. If I called you now and said I owned an oil block or oil well in the Niger Delta that needs exploiting, you will catch the next plane to Port Harcourt to join in the deal.

But if I called you to say I needed help cultivating a palm tree plantation in Abia State or Edo, with a 5-10 year gestation period, you'll slam the phone down on me, after informing me it is not ''your line of work''.

ROSSIKE:

Angiefan said:

You really don't get it do you?

Tell me something, are you not a Nigerian?

Do you know what the other four fingers do when you point one?

The private participants in Malaysia's oil palm industry, do you think palm oil was their ''line of work'' or their ''forte'' before they began investing heavily in it?

You offer really schupid and irritating 'arguments'.

ezeagu said:

You offer really schupid and irritating 'arguments'.

I know it would appear irritating to a cretinous peabrain like you.

What I do is hold up a mirror to loud-mouthed ''critics''.

ROSSIKE:

ezeagu said:

I know it would appear irritating to a cretinous peabrain like you.

What I do is hold up a mirror to loud-mouthed ''critics''.

What you should be doing instead is reading some history books on Nigeria.

ezeagu said:

I know it would appear irritating to a cretinous peabrain like you.

What I do is hold up a mirror to loud-mouthed ''critics''.

What you should be doing instead is reading some history books on Nigeria.

Dude, I've just schooled you in the REAL history of colonial Nigeria, not the whitewashed, airbrushed claptrap you read by white mythorians and their buffoonous black yes-men  - your ilk.

ROSSIKE:

Dude, I've just schooled you in the REAL history of colonial Nigeria, not the whitewashed, airbrushed, claptrap you read by white mythorians and their buffoonous black yes-men  - your ilk.

Funny. You wouldn't know colonial Nigeria history if it said "Hello I'm, Frederick Lugard".

ezeagu:

Funny. You wouldn't know colonial Nigeria history if it said "Hello I'm, Frederick Luagrd".

Ezeagu, abeg stop arguing with these people that are suffering from Ignorance. Like you said, they know nothing about Pre- and Post- Colonial Nigeria. funny enough the same British continued to put napkins on their fore fathers butts when the East discovered that the composition of Nigeria was breeding extreme under-development and strife.

ROSSIKE:

Dude, I've just schooled you in the REAL history of colonial Nigeria, not the whitewashed, airbrushed, claptrap you read by white mythorians and their buffoonous black yes-men  - your ilk.

[b]Look at who is schooling people. Well, you and that your "Akata" Homo-erectus called BK Male Babe should stop spewing your ignorance in public. The British would have left Nigeria in a better state (despite their exploitation) than your fore-fathers that turned the country into a big and disrespectful slum. Nigeria actually went out of hand after your fathers succeeded in putting the East out of the political equation, and started dancing to their ethnic drums on it. Abi na lie? You and your cronies stand up here everytime to wish for "Lagos" as it was before 1960 and in early 1960s without asking who kept it that way, and who turned it into a mega slum.

This is Portharcourt in 1956, take a good look at the road and security there. Look at the youths and the absence of frustration in their outlook, despite the fact that the British were supposedly exploiting Nigeria at that time. Look at the safety and mix of Nigerians and foreigners without any form of fear of kidnapping or brutalisation. I bet you know what will happen now if those foreigners wonder carelessly in such an area, even if there's Mopol men armed to their teeth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK4xoD2Zm60&feature=related [/b]

Justcash said:

Look at who is schooling people. Well, you and that your "Akata" Homo-erectus called BK Male Babe should stop spewing your ignorance in public. The British would have left Nigeria in a better state (despite their exploitation) than your fore-fathers that turned the country into a big and disrespectful slum

Guy, I have already told you to leave the ''slum'' of modern Nigeria and return to your village where 95% of Nigerians lived under colonialism. Yet you remain in the big slum of modern Nigeria, badmouthing her.

You are the epitome of self-contradiction.

Nigeria actually went out of hand after your fathers succeeded in putting the East out of the political equation, and started dancing to their ethnic drums on it.

I've no idea what you're quibbling about here. You seem to have some sort of Biafran sympathies. Funny how the British you worship like a slave are the same people that destroyed your Biafran dream. Incidentally it was for the very same reasons they built no infrastructure commensurate with the time they spent ruling the country directly. I don't expect you to begin to understand what I'm saying.

You and your cronies stand up here everytime to wish for "Lagos" as it was before 1960 and in early 1960s without asking who kept it that way, and who turned it into a mega slum.

I know old people in LONDON who reminisce over London of the 1950s as well - sparsely populated, less traffic jams, cleaner etc etc. So Lagos is not unique in drawing nostalgia over simpler days.

Lagos was simply not as populated then as it is now. In the ''good old days'' of British rule, most Nigerians were stuck in the VILLAGES WORKING AS ILLITERATE FARMERS and HUNTERS.

After the British were kicked out, education, economic opportunities, and infrastructural development EXPANDED DRASTICALLY, and this was what led to the rush to the cities, such as Lagos.

So WE HAVE NO REGRETS ABOUT LAGOS. Nigerians benefited and still benefit from Lagos far more than they did under colonial rule. The GDP of Lagos today surpasses that of the entire Nigeria under British rule. Lagos today contains more educated, middle class people than existed in all of Nigeria during British rule. There is 100 times more infrastructure in Lagos today than existed under the British.

Your really can't compare.

This is Portharcourt in 1956, take a good look at the road and security there.

You have no shame. That two-lane road in your video, what is special about it?

Does it compare to THIS?

(Lagos)

[img]http://forum.bauforum24.biz/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=61594[/img]

Or THIS:



Or THIS:



Or THIS:



Or THIS:






In fact you need to stop embarrassing yourself. Posting some cheap two-lane road with no markings or even pavement to show how great the British did is beyond embarrassing. I suspect you're drunk. Did the British build even ONE ROAD that looks like anything I've just posted above?


THIS was Nigeria's major street in Downtown Lagos in the 1950s, after 70 years of British rule.

[img]http://4.bp..com/_FtuG0ZOGjI4/SxN3pU99XJI/AAAAAAAAB0U/xPPfmqDkYJY/s1600/02-broad-street-lagos-1951.jpg[/img]

Is this not a testament to failure?

What other testament to the uselessness of the British do you want than this picture of Broad Street in the 1950s?

Can you see the people walking barefoot?

On Broad Street?

Do you want me to post an image of this same Broad Street today? Under black rule?

Look at  the youths and the absence of frustration in their outlook, despite the fact that the British were supposedly exploiting Nigeria at that time.

Oh I guess the 165 out of 1000 infant mortality rate statistics I posted were a figment of the western researchers' imaginations! Afterall here's a few happy smiley natives just loving their subservience! What a clown.

Look at the safety and mix of Nigerians and foreigners without any form of fear of kidnapping or brutalisation. I bet you know what will happen now if those foreigners wonder carelessly in such an area, even if there's Mopol men armed to their teeth.

Is it not the same ENGLISH people that brought SHELL to that same area, polluting/destroying the entire landscape where you say ''the people and foreigners are happy and smiling and everybody is safe''?

You really don't think things through before blabbing your subservience, do you?

This is the first time I'll ever agree with this ROSSIKE chap on this forum, despite his excessive Afrocentrist/Pan-African tendencies. Good job correcting some bizarre assumptions on this thread.

One thing I will have to  disagree with regarding the establishing of the University of Ibadan in 1948, about 30-35 years after Nigeria was fully "pacified" by the British, is that you have to take account whether there was a sufficiently large population of literate and "second-generation" Nigerians to warrant establishing a Nigerian university. And by this I mean not only students, but also lecturers, staff and professors that  could result in the indigenous running of the university. So let the Brits slide on that one. There weren't that many Nigerians with Ph.D's or even master's prior to 1960.



@ Justcash, don't derail this thread with pointless whining. What's stopping you from going this very moment and developing Port Harcourt the way you presume the British would have? Did Amaechi institute a Justcash ban in Port Harcourt? By the way, the Western region excluding Lagos was richer than the East and had the same level of infrastructural development, or possibly greater (Ibadan, for example), so I don't see what all this babble about the East is about.


Concerning Port Harcourt read http://www.adakaboro.org/the12dayrev/chap3 to get some sense of what the non-British were turning it into. Apparently liquor houses, gambling centers, and brothels were all that the East could make of Port Harcourt after the British left.  That said, Port Harcourt could actually be something today, so I'm glad it didn't remain in British hands.

PhysicsMHD said:

One thing I will have to  disagree with regarding the establishing of the University of Ibadan in 1948, about 30-35 years after Nigeria was fully "pacified" by the British, is that you have to take account whether there was a sufficiently large population of literate and "second-generation" Nigerians to warrant establishing a Nigerian university. And by this I mean not only students, but also lecturers, staff and professors that  could result in the indigenous running of the university. So let the Brits slide on that one. There weren't that many Nigerians with Ph.D's or even master's prior to 1960.

The British set up universities and engineering institutes in India, South Africa, Egypt et al as early as the 1850s. They seconded professors and lecturers from the UK and elsewhere to form the initial teaching staff in all those places. They had also established in those countries a high number of primary and secondary schools prior, such that there was no shortage of qualified students. So don't make excuses for them. They deliberately witheld education from Nigerians as a matter of state policy dictated from London. They simply did not consider it in their interest to establish higher education in Nigeria. It was only after unremitting pressure from indigenes following WW2 that they grudgingly established the ''University College'', Ibadan.

The British actually had India and Egypt as colonies for much longer than Nigeria and didn't set up colleges and schools immediately or in many locations, so I don't see the difference, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. With regard to South Africa,  I'm pretty puzzled by how they did more for colonial black South Africans than they did for Nigerians, for basically no reason. I had earlier thought that more black South Africans were more integrated into Western life and living since they had been coming to white cities since the 1800s and that that might have been the reason, but I don't really think so  now. The Niger Delta, for example, had been interacting with the British for a long time (trade) and could have immediately benefited from British development when they were made protectorates, but the Brits didn't give a damn. I guess they viewed Nigeria the way Belgians viewed the Congo - exploit, pillage, and move on.  Much of it can directly be blamed on Lugard and British governors like him, who had a kind of twisted respect for indigenous African rule and wanted to see indirect rule of the territories by the British using the African rulers who were forced into protectorates or previously overthrown by British to rule over the communities that the British conquered. Lugard ensured that Nigerians went on living somewhat similar to how they had been for a long time, except with their wealth being transferred to Britain and free labor being used by Britain.

When you consider that Nigeria is inherently politically unstable and that the way they set it up directly contradicted and rubbished the history of the pre-colonial area, it just makes me loath what their colonialism did to this area even more.

(edited)