bermuda1:

The thread is being derailed by a lot of infantile arguments that are premised on ignorance.  If we Nigerians removed petty emotions and looked at issues objectively the sky would surely be our limit

let me just illustrate 2 points why the western countries will continue to do much better than African countries until we change our act


1. Riches are not in resources but in the value added to resources.

Nigeria's main export is crude oil and we export about 2.5m barrels a day. This sells today for $85 a barrell which is about £54

From a barrel of Bonny ligh crude after refining you can get a 73 ltrs of Petrol, 40 litles of diesel amongst others.  In the UK the current avg price of petrol and diesel is £1.25 so the selling price on a barrel for both is £141.25 of which £82.49 is TAX

In the course of a year assuming all remain equal and the Nigeria govt receives all the proceeds for oil. Nigeria receives £49bn a year from crude oil and the UK government receives £75bn from the same oil that nigeria produces. So the western govt make even more money than us from the crude oil we produce.

exactly what i'm thinking.
the west are always saying naija makes a lot of money from oil but in reality, I don't think that is true. we're selling our resources for really cheap (esp if you factor in exchange rates) and importing expensive products/loans.

the question is why? I feel that we are somehow trapped. ex. if you (bermuda1) became president of Nigeria tomorrow, would you be able to change the system?

Read - Reread- Read - Reread, but I still dont understand this foreign exchange argument

Nigeria's main export is crude oil and we export about 2.5m barrels a day. This sells today for $85 a barrell which is about £54

From a barrel of Bonny ligh crude after refining you can get a 73 ltrs of Petrol, 40 litles of diesel amongst others. In the UK the current avg price of petrol and diesel is £1.25 so the selling price on a barrel for both is £141.25 of which £82.49 is TAX

Ok, I reread this again. I would be frank this is totally daft. To quote the Americans "Bullshit", the brits "bollocks" and the French "Connerie"

Yes Nigeria sells her crude oil but I think Britain will see the crude oil at the same market price if they are the same grade. Wouldn't Nigeria be selling oil to whoever at the same price as the UK, and receiving the money in foreign exchange and not naira? I think our crude account is even in foreign currency to prevent any depression that can be due to forex fluctuations.

Tourism and visitors. Everyday about 5 flights (maybe more) leave Nigeria for the united kingdom. These flights carry about 400 passengers. If we conservatively say that each passenger spends about a £1,000. That is £200,000 a day. a year its £73m from Nigeria alone. in 2005 the UK made £14bn from tourism alone

Crap, who told you a passenger spends 1000 pounds each trip even including ticket? Have you factored in that most of these people might be UK citizens and make their money in the UK? A total estimate- which you have provided anyways- gives an idea of how much comes in through tourism.

I agree though we waste money going to all these western countries shopping for crap. Wetin dey UK that you really cannot make in naija?

I always feel that western countries (and now China) are paying chicken change for our oil and natural resources due to the currency exchange rates which is totally unequal. western countries should be paying the full worth of the oil they are buying from us.

Crap, they are not really paying chicken change really. Moreover, the Chinese usually aim to purchase oil blocs especially through CNOOC and Sinopec, and are definitely not cheating Nigeria significantly. Maybe a bit though because the people in NNPC are dullards.

I think the resources are sold at the current market price which trust me Nigerians would be able to figure out we are not dullards. However, when selling resource blocks to companies, this might be an issue since one has to prove the total amount of reserves to evaluate how much a bloc could be worth. I might be wrong- totally clueless about evaluating or pricing of minerals, crude oil etc.

Disturbingly, instead of the Nigerian government using all the oil proceeds to fund a multinational with majority shareholding being controlled by the government which could later purchase stakes in other countries such as petrobras. What a waste!!!

Americana you are not making sense!!!

The best step approach for such an analysis would be to provide economic data the source of UK's GDP and then identifying each part. Anyways the large majority would probably be due to services and finance. London being the most important financial hub for the whole of EU followed probably by Zurich- too lazy to check. Then you have tons of MNC owned by the Brits stealing money from the third world lol.

SEFAGO:

Read - Reread- Read - Reread, but I still dont understand this foreign exchange argument
Ok, I reread this again. I would be frank this is totally daft. To quote the Americans "Bullshit", the brits "bollocks" and the French "Connerie"

Yes Nigeria sells her crude oil but I think Britain will see the crude oil at the same market price if they are the same grade. Wouldn't Nigeria be selling oil to whoever at the same price as the UK, and receiving the money in foreign exchange and not naira? I think our crude account is even in foreign currency to prevent any depression that can be due to forex fluctuations.

Mr Sefago is a shame that after reading and rereading that you still lack the power of comprehension. My argument about Crude is not one of forex. it is about how much countries make from crude oil whatever the currency. Nigeria is only concerned about the extraction of crude, however the main profit from the by products of crude oil which are Petroleum, diesel, kerosene etc

This argument can be looked at in various ways to understand how much the western countries make from our products. If you take cocoa for example. who do you think makes more money from cocoa products, Nestle or the Ivorien Government?

Why companies like Shell, BP, chevron, Esso etc are so profitable is that they are involved in all the value chains of pretroleum process. They extract, refine and market so anywhere you shake them,they dey

NNPC should by now be a major player in the world stage. If you argue that companies like Shell, BP or Esso gave us a head start and it would be difficult to aspire to them, there are companies that are on our level that we cannot smell their backs. companies like petrobras of brasil, Petronas of Malaysia, CNOOC of China etc

One of the reasons why we refuse to grow as a country is that people are unwilling to learn. If you point out why western countries are progressing, people say you are pandering to Oyibo. Meanwhile we go backwards while oyibo goes forward.

The truth is that if you want to pass exam, you are better off hanging out with the intelligent students than the dull ones

it is about how much countries make from crude oil whatever the currency. Nigeria is only concerned about the extraction of crude, however the main profit from the by products of crude oil which are Petroleum, diesel, kerosene etc

From a barrel of Bonny ligh crude after refining you can get a 73 ltrs of Petrol, 40 litles of diesel amongst others. In the UK the current avg price of petrol and diesel is £1.25 so the selling price on a barrel for both is £141.25 of which £82.49 is TAX

Right, my bad. You are actually correct. Dont blame me though its was the way it was written but yeah you are 100% correct in this regards. We could optimize our profits if we decided to develop and sell all the byproducts obtained from refining.

It was Jenifa_ that was talking about forex. Jenifa reminds me of someone though . . .hmm anyways

So you point is that more finished products cost more than just selling of raw materials. You must of course consider process costs which could lessen profits. You just used the value of the products without considering the fact that to reach these final products might require some costs.

One of the reasons why we refuse to grow as a country is that people are unwilling to learn. If you point out why western countries are progressing, people say you are pandering to Oyibo. Meanwhile we go backwards while oyibo goes forward.

Agree with most of what you said

I was the one talking about exchange rates as an example. not bermuda. although I agree with a lot of what he says.


@bermuda,
yes you are better off hanging out with the "intelligent" students. but will they want to hang out with you? if they do, are they not more likely to take advantage of you. the 'dull' one?

to me, our leaders are playing puppet to the west rather than being real leaders and taking charge. that's part of our problem
our interests will often time run contrary to theirs and we just need to challenge the west sometimes rather than be puppets that's all.

i'm pretty sure our leaders know all the stuff we're saying. they know finished goods fetch more than exporting raw materials but why aren't they acting on it? and do they have the power to act on it?

imagine yourself as president. how will you go about changing the situation and what challenges or pressures might you face in taking these actions.

Two answers:
1: the indusrial revolution of 1900.
2: the strong finacial institutions in the city of London.

I think mercantilism is the answer. they've been practicing it for centuries and it has worked for them.

Two answers:
1: the indusrial revolution of 1900.
2: the strong finacial institutions in the city of London.
3. The Slave Trade
4. Colonisation

And who said I wasnt nice

for some reason I don't think the british were heavily involved in the slave trade. I always got the impression that they were against slave trade probably because they were losing out on the profits their counterparts were making off of it. I don't know though

^^^They were.

how significant was their involvement?
I never really learned much about British involvement in the whole slave trade.

Jenifa_:

how significant was their involvement?
I never really learned much about British involvement in the whole slave trade.

At the forefront. They're the no2 beneficiary after the US.

They ended it without having a single black man as a British man (without any other country), unlike the US.

ola olabiy:

At the forefront. They're the no2 beneficiary after the US.

I need to do some reading on that I guess.
what colonies did they import the slaves to?

^^Please do.

Jenifa_:


I need to do some reading on that I guess.
what colonies did they import the slaves to?

The Carribean.
Sierra Leone.
Liberia (especially the US)

The US
Etc.

so the slaves that were returned to sierra leone and liberia. did they come from britain?

what parts of the Caribbean did the british control?

^^All English-speaking parts.

At a time, they owned 1/4 of the world (or thereabouts).

I think they still have 14 islands under their control.

Jamaica, Trini, ST KItts and Nevis, Barbados

Is Jenifa just trolling around?

so the slaves that were returned to sierra leone and liberia. did they come from britain?

Not all, some came as far as brazil

In the carribean, there are about 7,000 islands and they controlled many of them. E.g St Lucia, T$T and many others.

SEFAGO:

Jamaica, Trini, ST KItts and Nevis, Barbados

Is Jenifa just trolling around?

Not all, some came as far as brazil

well i'm in the US. so I got mostly the US perspective of the slave trade.
didn't learn much about British involvements

but of course it all makes sense. duh jamaica
I just never thought of it because of the way I was taught.

when I think slave trade, I think southern US, cuba, brazil, haiti etc.
I'm not thinking of st lucia, st. kitts or t&t or jamaica etc.


but thanks for the lessons. lol

Jenifa_:

well i'm in the US. so I got mostly the US perspective of the slave trade.
didn't learn much about British involvements

but of course it all makes sense. duh jamaica
I just never thought of it because of the way I was taught.

when I think slave trade, I think southern US, cuba, brazil, haiti etc.
I'm not thinking of st lucia, st. kitts or t&t or jamaica etc.


but thanks for the lessons. lol

The british built their economy on the slave trade, it was the slave trade that laid the foundation for their industrial revolution, as the cotton, sugar and tobacco cultivated by african slaves in the carribean, south america and north america was then exported to places like bristol, liverpool and london to be converted into manufactured goods. 

British Corporations which made their money on the back of slavery :

barclays bank, (banking and finance)
Lloyds of london, (insurance)
Tate and Lyle (sugar exports)

The above corporations were invovled in loaning of money to slaveowners
handling monetary transactions of slavery;
insurance of slaves and slave ships;
using slave labour to grow sugar

Contrary to popular opinion the british were not in favour of the aboliton of slavery, they actually deviced many means to avoid it:

Within days of the 1807 anti-slavery act coming into force, British slave traders were already deploying a number of ruses to circumvent it.

Ships were built in Britain and, if the builders felt they could evade the eyes of the law, they were fitted out for carrying slaves. Often it proved more convenient for the vessels to sail with the goods to be traded for slaves, and receive their “special fittings” en route.

Those who benefited included the banks, insurance companies, shipbuilders, sail and later engine makers, and the manufacturers of goods exchanged for men, women and children in Africa.

Slave-owners in the Southern US states, Cuba and Brazil, and the owners of slave-worked plantations and mines, all continued to make large profits from this illegal trade.

Britain even reduced the import duties that imposed penalties on slave grown sugar in the 1840s.

That led to an increase in the exportation of the enslaved from Africa to Cuba and Brazil, as slave grown sugar became much more competitive.

It was cotton that led to the phenomenal economic growth of Lancashire and the north west of England, particularly Liverpool and Manchester.

Some 80 percent of it came from the Americas, where it was grown and packed by slaves.

Compared with the campaign against slave grown sugar, this complicity appears to have worried very few people.

Were there just too many people working directly and indirectly in the import, export, and manufacturing of cotton?

Were those making their millions from it just too influential?

Prior to the 1807 act Liverpool had pleaded that it would collapse without the open trade in enslaved Africans.

In fact it grew, and much of its growth was still based on the “nefarious trade” – which would only start to diminish in the 1860s.

The trade finally stopped when the enslaved in Cuba and Brazil were emancipated in the 1880s, by which time up to 20 million Africans may have lost their lives as a result.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=10962

interesting

Slavery gave rise to capitalism:

The slave trade was vital to the new capitalist world, writes Charlie Kimber

Slavery was not a one-off event – a single horror confined to the 18th century or simply to Africa.

It was one of the products of the rise of capitalism, and in turn it gave a great boost to capitalism’s growth. The black historian Eric Williams wrote that slavery “fertilised the entire productive system”.

Profits derived from the “triangular trade” accounted for between a quarter and a third of the entire new investment made by the British ruling class in the years around 1770.

The slave plantations were crucial sources of cheap raw materials for emerging industries, as markets for British goods and as a source of considerable profit.

A big portion of the money made from slaves was invested in industrial production – in canals, railways, ships and new productive techniques.

The firm of Boulton & Watt, Britain’s most important maker of steam engines, was dependent for a period upon slavery.

Colonial conquest was also important. The historian Robin Blackburn writes, “The profits of the plantations and the slave-based trades probably constituted the largest single source of imperial gains. But Ireland and India greatly swelled the revenues available to Britain’s ruling class.”

Slavery was a fruit of the first wave of capitalist globalisation. It was a central part of the process which Karl Marx called “the primitive accumulation of capital”.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=10966

UK and rich, in the same sentence I know this ain't the jokes section but is this some kinda joke

Busy_body:

UK and rich, in the same sentence I know this ain't the jokes section but is this some kinda joke

The UK is poor?

Knight1:

Education. they sell education.

london is like an international marketplace so, they shouldnt be poor

Even if every single circa 350,000 international student granted a visa pays £7,500 tuition fee per annum, this is not enough to cover only just 3 days (£117.5 million pound per day) of the interest UK has to repay on their debt And this interest is only for a quarter of the actual amount (£4 trillion) they are owing So put that fallacy about making money from Foreign students in a pipe and smoke it

ezeagu:

The UK is poor?

Well, the interest rate figure i quoted above was just for the debt which currently stands at £952.8 billion pounds and this does not include Pension contribution, PFI repayment and Financial sector intervention - which they have no choice to cough up - which if and when added means Britain is actually owing £4 trillion pounds (£4,000,000,000,000) according to the Office for National Statistics which is a Government quango. Now this £4 trillion is without interest added, so go figure.


Or why do you think they have been raising taxes, cutting benefits, devalued the pounds, slashing funding, trying to keep the interest rate low, struggling to maintain their triple AAA rating, got chased like a dog with its tail between by IMF before they were even approached not to bring their begging bowl, etc


Rich ko, loaded ni

^^ ewo grandmama onijongbon.

Ileke-IdI:

^^ ewo grandmama onijongbon.

Awww, is that my sexytime loff Thought you were going to stand me up for Valentine cos i chased away my other suitors just to be with you

^ buhaha. lol. Tell my boo (almost 2 ft ) happy val.

Ha, I nearly forgot, happy valentine my Ekiti lollipop

_{Still saving money for your valentine gift}