Our salvation is a free gift from God. It does not depend on our own works of repentance from sin. Repenting from sin could not save you to begin with and it cannot keep you saved. The only thing that saves is faith in Christ. That is why Christ is referred to as a stumbling block. People stumble over Him because they think that they have to do something to earn their salvation.

Bishopkingsley:





Now let see what God says about those that are forever saved

Now from the scriptures shown we can see

Once God gives you a new heart and put his holy spirit in you God takes over your life and your body and look at what God said the holy spirit will do for you

Ezekiel 36:27 ►
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.


God will move you to do his laws

Now is there any place here where you move your self by yourself by your own power

We see God saying in his Word you are not the one living when he saves you forever rather it is Jesus Christ who now lives inside you

Romans 6:14 ►
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

New Living Translation
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

Hebrews 10:16 ►
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

New Living Translation
“This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

Read down to see more forever saved confirmation

15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

16 “This is the new covenant I will make
with my people on that day,[c] says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[d]
17 Then he says,

“I will never again remember
their sins and lawless deeds.”

This is the almighty God taking an oat with us God vow to never remember our sins because it is Christ who is now living in us sin is not controlling us because we are living a holy life

Galatians 2:
20.My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

awitness41: where is your friend that says obeying God laws only makes you right with God come explain

Galatians 2:20b
For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

I told you the law is like a laboratory test result to show us what is actually wrong with us but the solution of the problem is Jesus

Ezekiel 36:26 ►
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

New Living Translation
And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

Ezekiel 36:27 ►
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Once God gives you this promise above you will be doing God's will like eating beans it will then become so easy it no longer a struggle

We that are saved forever are not the ones living rather it is God living through us
That is why sin has been defeated in our lives

The desire for sin no longer exists it completely dead we dominate sin

We walk in Jesus Righteousness
That same Righteousness Jesus Christ has is what we have

So you need to rightly divide the word of truth if you actually know you are saved

If you have the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues you will never open your mouth and say God can forsake you for one reason or another

Jesus declared I will never leave you or forsake you even to the end of the world

When God writes his word in your heart guess what happens you can never live in sin
How can you live in sin, when the only thing popping up in your heart is the word of God

You will naturally do right when God writes his laws in your heart you will naturally be living right you actually become holy it not a big problem to be holy for God

Because all that is in your heart is God words

This is the level of faith where those who don't have holy spirit don't understand they think it is us that will force ourselves to be obeying God they don't know it flows through us easily like breathing air

The same mind that Jesus has is the same mind I have all we want to be doing is the will of God not even our own we just want to obey God

Our heart is crying my father my father
Each day, and each day we eat the word we just want to please God the desire for sin no longer shows up because when Jesus died we died with him and when he rose up we rose up with him

Oh I wish you can experience this new birth this type of life that Jesus is actually talking about how sweet it is this is the level where God possess you the same way you see Satan takes over mad Men he actually learnt it from God and twisted it

That is how God takes over our body the difference is we are not mad for the wrong things rather we are totally consumed by God words

How can you know this things am talking about when you don't understand who the holy spirit is accept Jesus into your life then the things I say will become a reality to you

Finally you cannot experience this things unless God Himself draws you to himself

God is the one who decides who he want and when he does that you are forever saved

I agree with you.
Who ever God saved is forever saved.
Who ever God saves will have a new nature that hates sin and thus live to please God.
Whoever claims to be saved BUT loves and excuses sin may not have been saved in the first place BECAUSE he hasnt yet become a new creation in Christ.
No one can earn salvation by good works
THere is nothing else to add to assisting the blood of Jesus for our salvation

shadeyinka:

I agree with you.
Who ever God saved is forever saved.
Who ever God saves will have a new nature that hates sin and thus live to please God.
Whoever claims to be saved BUT loves and excuses sin may not have been saved in the first place BECAUSE he hasnt yet become a new creation in Christ.
No one can earn salvation by good works
THere is nothing else to add to assisting the blood of Jesus for our salvation

Glory to God

Declare Jesus as Lord

For us, following Jesus means recognizing him for who he really is. Messiah. Lord. The Son of God. He is the Savior of the world. Paul says, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

one of the great verses in the Bible,

Paul has declared outright that nobody can be justified—"declared righteous" before God—by the works of the law of Moses

(Galatians 2:16). The only way anyone can ever be justified and made acceptable to God is by faith in the Christ who died to pay the penalty for our sins.

Adding any other requirement to this gospel is false
(Galatians 2:4) and worthy of condemnation (Galatians 1:8–9).

sonmvayina:


I follow God's commandments. It is called the Torah by the jews but we igbo calls it omenani and odinani..

Why do you guys love to twist the truth the beliefs in the Torah and Bible and the so called ten commandments of the Christians are completely different from the beliefs in Odinani

Abohboy:


Why do you guys love to twist the truth the beliefs in the Torah and Bible and the so called ten commandments of the Christians are completely different from the beliefs in Odinani

Then you don't really know anything...

Go back to the basics..

sonmvayina:


Then you don't really know anything...

Go back to the basics..

How am I the one that knows nothing?

In Christianity you can pray to God

In Odinani you cannot communicate or even address Chukwu

In Christianity there's Jesus

In Odinani there's no Jesus

In Odinani there's Afa divination through a Dibia with cowrie shells or kola nut

In Christianity there's no such concept of divination talk less of a kola not and cowrie shells

In Odinani there's charms

In Christianity there's no charms

And that's only the tip of the iceberg the religions aren't similar in any type of form whatsoever

Abohboy:


How am I the one that knows nothing?

In Christianity you can pray to God

In Odinani you cannot communicate or even address Chukwu

In Christianity there's Jesus

In Odinani there's no Jesus

In Odinani there's Afa divination through a Dibia with cowrie shells or kola nut

In Christianity there's no such concept of divination talk less of a kola not and cowrie shells

In Odinani there's charms

In Christianity there's no charms

And that's only the tip of the iceberg the religions aren't similar in any type of form whatsoever

Who is talking about Christianity?

I said Torah...read it again.

sonmvayina:


Who is talking about Christianity?

I said Torah...read it again.

The funny thing is that you don't know your Torah very well all the stories I told you in it you showed you don't know it was in Torah

You just claim to believe Torah but you don't know what Torah says about the things of God

sonmvayina:


Who is talking about Christianity?

I said Torah...read it again.

The Torah is simply the old testament of the Christian Bible with a bit more informatio everything I said is still true God came down to speak with Moses in Odinani the supreme deity or Chukwu doesn't speak to or even come into contact with people

Abohboy:



The Torah is simply the old testament of the Christian Bible with a bit more informatio everything I said is still true God came down to speak with Moses in Odinani the supreme deity or Chukwu doesn't speak to or even come into contact with people

Like I said. You dont understand it as much as you think you do....

I can teach it to you if you allow me..

FYI the Torah has got nothing to do with Christianity. It belongs to the jews. They wrote it for their religion called Judaism. And contrary to popular belief it was not written by Moses. It was written by Ezra.

Bishopkingsley:


The funny thing is that you don't know your Torah very well all the stories I told you in it you showed you don't know it was in Torah

You just claim to believe Torah but you don't know what Torah says about the things of God

Well I am still learning it. Even the sages and rabbi are still learning it. ..there are up to 4 layers of it.
But one thing I am 10000% sure is that your Jesus is an idol.

sonmvayina:


Like I said. You dont understand it as much as you think you do....

I can teach it to you if you allow me..

FYI the Torah has got nothing to do with Christianity. It belongs to the jews. They wrote it for their religion called Judaism. And contrary to popular belief it was not written by Moses. It was written by Ezra.

The Torah is the old testament of the Christian Bible with a few extra teachings there's nothing to learn Odinani isn't the same as the Torah not even close

Abohboy:


The Torah is the old testament of the Christian Bible with a few extra teachings there's nothing to learn Odinani isn't the same as the Torah not even close

You don't know anything yet...

sonmvayina:


Well I am still learning it. Even the sages and rabbi are still learning it. ..there are up to 4 layers of it.
But one thing I am 10000% sure is that your Jesus is an idol.

As long as you don't know Torah it shows you are not qualified to speak

We that know everything inside it are the ones who are the oracle of God so until you get to our stage before you can open your mouth

For now am sorry you don't know what you even say that is why I told you about bronze serpent and you open up your mouth to say it not in Torah

When I gave you the prove you ran away so continue to run away instead of saying things that you actually don't know

But when ever you finish reading the Torah then you will understand what Jehovah said about Jesus

Bishopkingsley:


As long as you don't know Torah it shows you are not qualified to speak

We that know everything inside it are the ones who are the oracle of God so until you get to our stage before you can open your mouth

For now am sorry you don't know what you even say that is why I told you about bronze serpent and you open up your mouth to say it not in Torah

When I gave you the prove you ran away so continue to run away instead of saying things that you actually don't know

But when ever you finish reading the Torah then you will understand what Jehovah said about Jesus

Lol...

Tell me what jehovah said about your idol...I am waiting.

sonmvayina:


Lol...

Tell me what jehovah said about your idol...I am waiting.

I told you when you finish to read the Torah you will see it

Because you have not read anything from the Torah yet

Ordinary bronze serpent story you acknowledge that you don't know about it so try to read more of the Torah so that you can know what it actually says

Now let me give you a hint those who practiced Judaism and base their hopes on the Torah are actually waiting for the Messiah they are still waiting for a man to lead Israel

So if you call Jesus an idol I wonder what you will call the man that the Judaism Torah is talking about

My brother you no nothing about what you put your faith on

Bishopkingsley:


I told you when you finish to read the Torah you will see it

Because you have not read anything from the Torah yet

Ordinary bronze serpent story you acknowledge that you don't know about it so try to read more of the Torah so that you can know what it actually says

Now let me give you a hint those who practiced Judaism and base their hopes on the Torah are actually waiting for the Messiah they are still waiting for a man to lead Israel

So if you call Jesus an idol I wonder what you will call the man that the Judaism Torah is talking about

My brother you no nothing about what you put your faith on

You just admitted that your Jesus is an invention. Because the Messiah the Torah spoke of has not come. God and Torah never said the Messiah will be a demi God. So my friend who are you worshipping ?

Think again.

sonmvayina:


You just admitted that your Jesus is an invention. Because the Messiah the Torah spoke of has not come. God and Torah never said the Messiah will be a demi God. So my friend who are you worshipping ?

Think again.

Read the Torah before you open your mouth because it clear you don't know the book

Bishopkingsley:


Read the Torah before you open your mouth because it clear you don't know the book

The Torah contains God's divine laws for mankind which I follow. Who or what do you follow?

sonmvayina:


The Torah contains God's divine laws for mankind which I follow. Who or what do you follow?

Before you did not accept that there was a Messiah to come in the Torah now you have acknowledged it

This shows you don't know the book, now Read the Torah and find out what the Torah said about the Messiah since you have now accepted that indeed there is a Messiah in the book

Now this divine laws are also in the new testaments Bible but because you don't know the Torah or new testaments Bible How then can you understand any things of God

Just read the Torah and find out what it says about the coming Messiah since you agree that he is going to come

Even though before you rejected that he even exists

Bishopkingsley:


Before you did not accept that there was a Messiah to come in the Torah now you have acknowledged it

This shows you don't know the book, now Read the Torah and find out what the Torah said about the Messiah since you have now accepted that indeed there is a Messiah in the book

Now this divine laws are also in the new testaments Bible but because you don't know the Torah or new testaments Bible How then can you understand any things of God

Just read the Torah and find out what it says about the coming Messiah since you agree that he is going to come

Even though before you rejected that he even exists

The Messiah is a man like you and me from the tribe of Judah. That means he must have a father and mother who are Jewish. He is coming to rule and be anointed with a special oil just like David and Solomon. He is not coming to die for sins...

Compeende??

sonmvayina:


The Messiah is a man like you and me from the tribe of Judah. That means he must have a father and mother who are Jewish. He is coming to rule and be anointed with a special oil just like David and Solomon. He is not coming to die for sins...

Compeende??

Now that is not what the Torah says

But let me trap you and show to you how much you don't know Torah show me the place Torah said these things you have said now if you complain about showing the place then I will show you what the Torah actually said about the Messiah

Now let me give you a hint
David called the Messiah my lord
Daniel called him the son of man
All the prophet called him the name they saw his glory on

So show me this fabrication of yours where it is written in the Torah

Bishopkingsley:


Now that is not what the Torah says

But let me trap you and show to you how much you don't know Torah show me the place Torah said these things you have said now if you complain about showing the place then I will show you what the Torah actually said about the Messiah

Now let me give you a hint
David called the Messiah my lord
Daniel called him the son of man
All the prophet called him the name they saw his glory on

So show me this fabrication of yours where it is written in the Torah

Hahaha ha. You don't even know what Torah is.
Torah is Genesis to deuteronomy..it contains God's divine laws. The rest are just foot notes. Jewish history, psalm and Proverbs. The Torah with the rest are called Tanakh...

You and your kindergarten brain.

The Messiah is from the root of David through Solomon his son. .not a demi God.

Demi God's belong to mythology.

Bishopkingsley:


Now that is not what the Torah says

But let me trap you and show to you how much you don't know Torah show me the place Torah said these things you have said now if you complain about showing the place then I will show you what the Torah actually said about the Messiah

Now let me give you a hint
David called the Messiah my lord
Daniel called him the son of man
All the prophet called him the name they saw his glory on

So show me this fabrication of yours where it is written in the Torah

It's a very popular question. Why don't Jews believe Jesus was the Messiah? Aren't the proofs convincing?

This is a sensitive issue, and it is hoped that no one will be offended by the candid answer provided here.

We do not believe that it is prophesied that the Messiah will be crucified. We do not believe that the Messiah will be the son of G-d. We do not believe that he will be raised from the dead any more than anyone else. We do not believe that he will appear twice, in what some Christians call a second coming. We do not believe that the Messiah will be our "savior" in the sense that he will redeem us from our sins.

These are all fascinating claims to make concerning anyone, but they are all irrelevant to the Messiah for whom the Jews have awaited these three thousand years. None of these things are prophesied in the Jewish Bible.

What then is this Messiah for whom we wait? The Messiah will be a mortal man, born of a normal man and woman.He will be a man very learned in all sections of the Torah, and he will be a very righteous man. He will be of the undisputed scion of David through his father. He will become uncontested ruler in the Land of Israel over all the People of Israel, that is, all Twelve Tribes of Israel. He will have at least one son, who will be king after the Messiah dies a normal death at an advanced age.

He will be as described by the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2-4): "full of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of G-d . . . he will smite the tyrant with the rod of his mouth, and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips . . ." (Maimonides explains this last as merely a parable, and not to be taken literally.)

Still, the Messiah will primarily be a prince of peace. As it says (Isaiah 52:7) "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace."

The Messiah will bring an end to all suffering and war. He will rescue the Children of Israel from exile. He will teach the world how to revere truth, and they will all return to G-d (though not necessarily to Judaism). All forms of warfare will be abolished.

The Torah will be strengthened by the teachings and practices of the Messiah. It will not be weakened nor changed in the slightest.

The Jews will no longer be subjugated nor oppressed by other nations. (In fact, there will be no oppression or subjugation anywhere in the world, by anyone against anyone.) The Jews will be free in the Land of Israel. We will have the Holy Temple once again. We will have the full body of the Law restored by the full Sanhedrin and all lesser courts. And the Messiah will do all this on his first try. Indeed, this is how we will know he is the Messiah.

These are the main prophecies that the Torah tells us concerning the Messiah. The man who causes these to happen will be the Messiah. Since these have not happened, the Messiah, the one foretold by the Torah, has not yet come.

It will be through these signs that he will be recognized. It will not be through miracles, nor through resurrection of the dead, nor through any new creation. It will be through the total rescue we will undergo (as described in brief above) that we will know the Messiah. And in truth, we await the Redemption more than we await the Messiah. The Messiah will be G-d's messenger and vehicle for that Redemption.

And that is a very important point. We await our rescue from exile and an end to all human suffering in this world. The Messiah's purpose is not to make it possible for us to go to Heaven. The Torah teaches us how to do that already.

The man the Christians worship may have been a good person, and he may have taught many good things. (Although I hasten to point out that there are many teachings in the Christian Bible that are completely unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, and incompatible to the teachings of the Torah.) But he was not the Messiah for whom we await and have long awaited. He may have been crucified, and that's a horrible thing. But that merely proves to us that he was not the Messiah.

He was not the son of G-d any more than we all are; precisely no more or less. The very thought is repugnant to a Jewish person. G-d having a son in that manner? We shudder at the suggestion.

Nor do we believe he was resurrected. But even if he was, that would not make him the Messiah.

All this that is claimed about Jesus is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Messiah. There will indeed be a resurrection, but not at the time of the Messiah's coming. That will be later.

The Jewish faith has no place for most of the Christian Messiah beliefs. Nor is there any way to reconcile Jesus with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. The two concepts have very little in common.

We still await the Messiah, and our faith is still strong.

..

sonmvayina:

It's a very popular question. Why don't Jews believe Jesus was the Messiah? Aren't the proofs convincing?

This is a sensitive issue, and it is hoped that no one will be offended by the candid answer provided here.

We do not believe that it is prophesied that the Messiah will be crucified. We do not believe that the Messiah will be the son of G-d. We do not believe that he will be raised from the dead any more than anyone else. We do not believe that he will appear twice, in what some Christians call a second coming. We do not believe that the Messiah will be our "savior" in the sense that he will redeem us from our sins.

These are all fascinating claims to make concerning anyone, but they are all irrelevant to the Messiah for whom the Jews have awaited these three thousand years. None of these things are prophesied in the Jewish Bible.

What then is this Messiah for whom we wait? The Messiah will be a mortal man, born of a normal man and woman.He will be a man very learned in all sections of the Torah, and he will be a very righteous man. He will be of the undisputed scion of David through his father. He will become uncontested ruler in the Land of Israel over all the People of Israel, that is, all Twelve Tribes of Israel. He will have at least one son, who will be king after the Messiah dies a normal death at an advanced age.

He will be as described by the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2-4): "full of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of G-d . . . he will smite the tyrant with the rod of his mouth, and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips . . ." (Maimonides explains this last as merely a parable, and not to be taken literally.)

Still, the Messiah will primarily be a prince of peace. As it says (Isaiah 52:7) "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace."

The Messiah will bring an end to all suffering and war. He will rescue the Children of Israel from exile. He will teach the world how to revere truth, and they will all return to G-d (though not necessarily to Judaism). All forms of warfare will be abolished.

The Torah will be strengthened by the teachings and practices of the Messiah. It will not be weakened nor changed in the slightest.

The Jews will no longer be subjugated nor oppressed by other nations. (In fact, there will be no oppression or subjugation anywhere in the world, by anyone against anyone.) The Jews will be free in the Land of Israel. We will have the Holy Temple once again. We will have the full body of the Law restored by the full Sanhedrin and all lesser courts. And the Messiah will do all this on his first try. Indeed, this is how we will know he is the Messiah.

These are the main prophecies that the Torah tells us concerning the Messiah. The man who causes these to happen will be the Messiah. Since these have not happened, the Messiah, the one foretold by the Torah, has not yet come.

It will be through these signs that he will be recognized. It will not be through miracles, nor through resurrection of the dead, nor through any new creation. It will be through the total rescue we will undergo (as described in brief above) that we will know the Messiah. And in truth, we await the Redemption more than we await the Messiah. The Messiah will be G-d's messenger and vehicle for that Redemption.

And that is a very important point. We await our rescue from exile and an end to all human suffering in this world. The Messiah's purpose is not to make it possible for us to go to Heaven. The Torah teaches us how to do that already.

The man the Christians worship may have been a good person, and he may have taught many good things. (Although I hasten to point out that there are many teachings in the Christian Bible that are completely unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, and incompatible to the teachings of the Torah.) But he was not the Messiah for whom we await and have long awaited. He may have been crucified, and that's a horrible thing. But that merely proves to us that he was not the Messiah.

He was not the son of G-d any more than we all are; precisely no more or less. The very thought is repugnant to a Jewish person. G-d having a son in that manner? We shudder at the suggestion.

Nor do we believe he was resurrected. But even if he was, that would not make him the Messiah.

All this that is claimed about Jesus is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Messiah. There will indeed be a resurrection, but not at the time of the Messiah's coming. That will be later.

The Jewish faith has no place for most of the Christian Messiah beliefs. Nor is there any way to reconcile Jesus with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. The two concepts have very little in common.

We still await the Messiah, and our faith is still strong.

Ok I will read this carefully later am coming

sonmvayina:

It's a very popular question. Why don't Jews believe Jesus was the Messiah? Aren't the proofs convincing?

This is a sensitive issue, and it is hoped that no one will be offended by the candid answer provided here.

We do not believe that it is prophesied that the Messiah will be crucified. We do not believe that the Messiah will be the son of G-d. We do not believe that he will be raised from the dead any more than anyone else. We do not believe that he will appear twice, in what some Christians call a second coming. We do not believe that the Messiah will be our "savior" in the sense that he will redeem us from our sins.

These are all fascinating claims to make concerning anyone, but they are all irrelevant to the Messiah for whom the Jews have awaited these three thousand years. None of these things are prophesied in the Jewish Bible.

What then is this Messiah for whom we wait? The Messiah will be a mortal man, born of a normal man and woman.He will be a man very learned in all sections of the Torah, and he will be a very righteous man. He will be of the undisputed scion of David through his father. He will become uncontested ruler in the Land of Israel over all the People of Israel, that is, all Twelve Tribes of Israel. He will have at least one son, who will be king after the Messiah dies a normal death at an advanced age.

He will be as described by the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2-4): "full of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of G-d . . . he will smite the tyrant with the rod of his mouth, and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips . . ." (Maimonides explains this last as merely a parable, and not to be taken literally.)

Still, the Messiah will primarily be a prince of peace. As it says (Isaiah 52:7) "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace."

The Messiah will bring an end to all suffering and war. He will rescue the Children of Israel from exile. He will teach the world how to revere truth, and they will all return to G-d (though not necessarily to Judaism). All forms of warfare will be abolished.

The Torah will be strengthened by the teachings and practices of the Messiah. It will not be weakened nor changed in the slightest.

The Jews will no longer be subjugated nor oppressed by other nations. (In fact, there will be no oppression or subjugation anywhere in the world, by anyone against anyone.) The Jews will be free in the Land of Israel. We will have the Holy Temple once again. We will have the full body of the Law restored by the full Sanhedrin and all lesser courts. And the Messiah will do all this on his first try. Indeed, this is how we will know he is the Messiah.

These are the main prophecies that the Torah tells us concerning the Messiah. The man who causes these to happen will be the Messiah. Since these have not happened, the Messiah, the one foretold by the Torah, has not yet come.

It will be through these signs that he will be recognized. It will not be through miracles, nor through resurrection of the dead, nor through any new creation. It will be through the total rescue we will undergo (as described in brief above) that we will know the Messiah. And in truth, we await the Redemption more than we await the Messiah. The Messiah will be G-d's messenger and vehicle for that Redemption.

And that is a very important point. We await our rescue from exile and an end to all human suffering in this world. The Messiah's purpose is not to make it possible for us to go to Heaven. The Torah teaches us how to do that already.

The man the Christians worship may have been a good person, and he may have taught many good things. (Although I hasten to point out that there are many teachings in the Christian Bible that are completely unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, and incompatible to the teachings of the Torah.) But he was not the Messiah for whom we await and have long awaited. He may have been crucified, and that's a horrible thing. But that merely proves to us that he was not the Messiah.

He was not the son of G-d any more than we all are; precisely no more or less. The very thought is repugnant to a Jewish person. G-d having a son in that manner? We shudder at the suggestion.

Nor do we believe he was resurrected. But even if he was, that would not make him the Messiah.

All this that is claimed about Jesus is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Messiah. There will indeed be a resurrection, but not at the time of the Messiah's coming. That will be later.

The Jewish faith has no place for most of the Christian Messiah beliefs. Nor is there any way to reconcile Jesus with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. The two concepts have very little in common.

We still await the Messiah, and our faith is still strong.

Numbers 21:6-9 is one direct prediction. And it is one of the passages that gives a glimpse, a picture-in-advance, of what the Messiah would be like. Israel was en route from Egypt to the Promised Land when the people (not for the first time) became impatient, ungrateful, and rebellious. Despite God’s provision thus far, they claimed to be afraid that there would be no water and were tired of the same food (provided by God) all the time. In consequence, God sent serpents to bite the people, and some died. But when they confessed their sin, Moses prayed to the Lord, and following God’s instructions, made a copper (or bronze) serpent and placed it on a pole. Then anyone who looked at the serpent would live, even after being bitten.

At one level, this taught Israel to have faith in God even if they could not fully understand what He was asking of them. In Exodus 12, He commanded the Israelites to put the blood of a lamb on their doorposts in order to be spared the plague of death.

But there is another level. In John 3,(Jesus) Yeshua is in conversation with a leading Pharisee, Nicodemus. At one point he remarks, “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life” (John 3:14).

Jesus had his own crucifixion in mind when he was “lifted up” on another tree at his crucifixion; he says as much in John 12:32, “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” Moreover, Isaiah 52:13, fulfilled in Yeshua, speaks of God’s servant being “lifted up.”

Many have noticed the parallels with the serpent on the pole tree . No one in the wilderness was spared being bitten, as no one is spared the bite of sin – we all sin and receive the effects of our sin. The Israelites could be healed if they looked at the serpent; anyone can be healed of sin if we look to Yeshua Jesus with faith. The copper serpent was the only cure for the poisonous bites; Yeshua is the only cure for sin (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Note

The “token of deliverance” was the copper serpent, through whom God performed the healing. In the same way, the token of deliverance today is Yeshua, through whom we can discover that God is the author of our spiritual healing from sin, for he has been lifted up on the crucifixion stake for us.

sonmvayina:


Hahaha ha. You don't even know what Torah is.
Torah is Genesis to deuteronomy..it contains God's divine laws. The rest are just foot notes. Jewish history, psalm and Proverbs. The Torah with the rest are called Tanakh...

You and your kindergarten brain.

The Messiah is from the root of David through Solomon his son. .not a demi God.

Demi God's belong to mythology.

The characteristics of the Jewish Messiah:

1. He will be a servant of God: "Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." (Isaiah 42:1).

2. He will build the kingdom of God: "He shall build a house for my name." (II Samuel 7:13).

3. He will be a national hero who will vanquish the enemies of Israel: "In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely." (Jeremiah 33:16); "And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies; also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee a house." (II Samuel 7:11); "Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him." (Psalms 72:11).

4. His kingdom will be eternal: "And I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever." (II Samuel 7:13).

5. He will have wonderful abilities: "And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord." (Isaiah 11:2).

6. He will engage in acts of moral judgment: "But with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth." (Isaiah 11:4).

7. He will be a light onto the nations: "I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and I will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people for a light of the gentiles. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." (Isaiah 42:6-7).

8. His success will be the result of spiritual, not violent activities: "But with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." (Isaiah 11:4).

9. He will be a stricken and suffering figure who will bear the pain of society: "Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:4-5).

10. He will be a scion of the house of David: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots." (Isaiah 11:1).

11. We do not know exactly when he will appear.

According to what is written in the book of Zechariah, the Messiah will arrive riding on the foal of a donkey: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, behold, they King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9).

In Judaism, the belief in the concept of the Messiah and his essence is given to debate, and has undergone changes over the course of time in accordance with the historical and social contexts throughout the various eras.

#################################

In Christian doctrine, Jesus is identified as the Messiah and is called Christ (from the Greek for Messiah). In the New Testament, Jesus is called Messiah several times, for example the Gospel according to Mark begins with the sentence "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God." (Mark 1:1). The Gospel according to Matthew identifies Jesus as the Messiah and even as the son of God: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." (Matthew 16:16). This statement expresses the belief that Jesus, as the son of God, possesses divine attributes. In the Gospel according to Mark, Jesus admits to the high priest that he is the Messiah: " Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? and Jesus said, I am." (Mark 14:61-62).

Aside from the statements in the New Testament regarding Jesus being the Messiah, in the actions described in the story of his life and death, Jesus does, indeed, show the characteristics of the Messiah as understood in Judaism:

1. He acts in the name of God: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor... This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4:18-21).

2. He will establish the kingdom of God forever  the kingdom of heaven: "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2).

3. He has wonderful abilities that enable him to perform miracles, including raising the dead: " The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Matthew 11:5).

4. He engages in acts of judgment: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." (Mathew 25:31-32).

5. He is presented as pursuing peace and opposing violence: "But I say onto you, That ye resist not evil: but whoever shall smite thee on they right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)

6. Jesus is depicted as suffering, both during the time of his ministry and in his death: "But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation." (Luke 17:25).

7. His ministry is directed not only at the people of Israel but at the gentiles as well: "Whosoever believeth in him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich onto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:11-12).

8. He is a scion of the house of David: "Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David." (Romans 1:3).

9. Jesus is described as riding a donkey foal into Jerusalem: "And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him: and he sat upon him." (Mark j. 11:7).

10. We do not know when he will come, except for the fact that this event will occur at the End of Days: "Watch therefore for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matthew 24: 42-44).


################################

Despite the similarity in the concepts, there are few basic differences between the concept of the Messiah in Judaism and in Christianity:

1. In Judaism, they wrongly say the Messiah is only flesh and blood.

Even though the Tanach states that God will be a father to him and he will be a son to God:
So Judaism fail to understand
Not knowing that he is going to be both flesh and blood and God Almighty.

"I will be his father and he shall be my son." (II Samuel 7:14), but the meaning of this verse is apparently clear : the Messiah will enjoy the benevolence of God as a son enjoys the benevolence of his father.

Contrary to the common belief in Judaism that the Messiah has yet to come,

in Christianity the Messiah has already arrived: "I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Jesus saith onto her, I that speak onto thee am he." (John 4: 25-26). He will return at the End of Days.
But then those who believe only in Torah will cry to Jesus blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord

Repent now before it becomes late

Bishopkingsley:



The characteristics of the Jewish Messiah:

1. He will be a servant of God: "Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." (Isaiah 42:1).

2. He will build the kingdom of God: "He shall build a house for my name." (II Samuel 7:13).

3. He will be a national hero who will vanquish the enemies of Israel: "In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely." (Jeremiah 33:16); "And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies; also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee a house." (II Samuel 7:11); "Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him." (Psalms 72:11).

4. His kingdom will be eternal: "And I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever." (II Samuel 7:13).

5. He will have wonderful abilities: "And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord." (Isaiah 11:2).

6. He will engage in acts of moral judgment: "But with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth." (Isaiah 11:4).

7. He will be a light onto the nations: "I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and I will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people for a light of the gentiles. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." (Isaiah 42:6-7).

8. His success will be the result of spiritual, not violent activities: "But with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." (Isaiah 11:4).

9. He will be a stricken and suffering figure who will bear the pain of society: "Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:4-5).

10. He will be a scion of the house of David: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots." (Isaiah 11:1).

11. We do not know exactly when he will appear.

According to what is written in the book of Zechariah, the Messiah will arrive riding on the foal of a donkey: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, behold, they King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9).

In Judaism, the belief in the concept of the Messiah and his essence is given to debate, and has undergone changes over the course of time in accordance with the historical and social contexts throughout the various eras.

#################################

In Christian doctrine, Jesus is identified as the Messiah and is called Christ (from the Greek for Messiah). In the New Testament, Jesus is called Messiah several times, for example the Gospel according to Mark begins with the sentence "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God." (Mark 1:1). The Gospel according to Matthew identifies Jesus as the Messiah and even as the son of God: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." (Matthew 16:16). This statement expresses the belief that Jesus, as the son of God, possesses divine attributes. In the Gospel according to Mark, Jesus admits to the high priest that he is the Messiah: " Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? and Jesus said, I am." (Mark 14:61-62).

Aside from the statements in the New Testament regarding Jesus being the Messiah, in the actions described in the story of his life and death, Jesus does, indeed, show the characteristics of the Messiah as understood in Judaism:

1. He acts in the name of God: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor... This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4:18-21).

2. He will establish the kingdom of God forever  the kingdom of heaven: "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2).

3. He has wonderful abilities that enable him to perform miracles, including raising the dead: " The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Matthew 11:5).

4. He engages in acts of judgment: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." (Mathew 25:31-32).

5. He is presented as pursuing peace and opposing violence: "But I say onto you, That ye resist not evil: but whoever shall smite thee on they right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)

6. Jesus is depicted as suffering, both during the time of his ministry and in his death: "But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation." (Luke 17:25).

7. His ministry is directed not only at the people of Israel but at the gentiles as well: "Whosoever believeth in him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich onto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:11-12).

8. He is a scion of the house of David: "Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David." (Romans 1:3).

9. Jesus is described as riding a donkey foal into Jerusalem: "And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him: and he sat upon him." (Mark j. 11:7).

10. We do not know when he will come, except for the fact that this event will occur at the End of Days: "Watch therefore for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matthew 24: 42-44).


################################

Despite the similarity in the concepts, there are few basic differences between the concept of the Messiah in Judaism and in Christianity:

1. In Judaism, they wrongly say the Messiah is only flesh and blood.

Even though the Tanach states that God will be a father to him and he will be a son to God:
So Judaism fail to understand
Not knowing that he is going to be both flesh and blood and God Almighty.

"I will be his father and he shall be my son." (II Samuel 7:14), but the meaning of this verse is apparently clear : the Messiah will enjoy the benevolence of God as a son enjoys the benevolence of his father.

Contrary to the common belief in Judaism that the Messiah has yet to come,

in Christianity the Messiah has already arrived: "I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Jesus saith onto her, I that speak onto thee am he." (John 4: 25-26). He will return at the End of Days.
But then those who believe only in Torah will cry to Jesus blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord

Repent nor before it becomes late

Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. Isaiah has already told you who the servant is in 41:6-9.

The major tenant of Christianity is the resurrection and second coming ...is this supported in the Torah?

sonmvayina:


Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. Isaiah has already told you who the servant is in 41:6-9.

The major tenant of Christianity is the resurrection and second coming ...is this supported in the Torah?

sonmvayina:



Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. Isaiah has already told you who the servant is in 41:6-9.

At that time Cyrus of Persia had been expanding his empire. He had conquered all the countries to the north and east, and was now threatening Babylon. The prophet imagines God calling the nations to assemble before him and asking them a question: who is it that has stirred up Cyrus to carry out this conquest? The answer: Yahweh (41:1-4).
As the armies of Cyrus approach these nations the people panic, and in their distress call upon their gods for protection. Isaiah pictures the goldsmiths and other craftsmen helping and encouraging each other as they work overtime to meet the heavy demand for idols (5-7).
The people of Israel, by contrast, are the people of the living God. He chose them long ago and he has not forgotten them. He is always present to strengthen and protect them (8-10). They need not fear their enemies, for God will fight for them - and no enemy can stand against him (11-13).
By God’s power Israel will be victorious. As a farmer threshes and winnows wheat, so Israel will crush and scatter its enemies (14-16). God will answer the prayers of his people, and provide them with all they need for a healthy and prosperous life. His gracious gifts will be a demonstration of his character that all can see (17-20).
God then challenges the gods of the nations to prove their power by predicting coming events. Not only are they unable to predict the future, they cannot even relate the past. He challenges them to prove their existence by doing anything at all, good or bad, but again they are unable. They are lifeless (21-24). God points out that he predicts correctly and acts decisively. None of the gods of the nations predicted Cyrus’s conquest, but the God of Israel did (25-27). These gods can neither predict events nor answer questions. Being lifeless, they can only deceive those who worship them (28-29).

The Servant of Yahweh

In 42:1-4 we meet the first of the four so-called Servant Songs. (The others are in 49:1-6, 50:4-9 and 52:13-53:12.)

The songs gives a mixed indication who this servant is because Bible is not a novel God hides things inside each verse .

Notice
In some cases the whole nation Israel is the servant, in other cases it is the faithful within Israel, while in some cases it is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The probable reason for this threefold meaning is that Israel as a whole failed, and the spiritual blessings God desired for Israel were experienced only by the faithful few who truly believed God. Yet even this faithful remnant did not experience the full blessings God intended for his people. God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled only in Jesus the Messiah. The nation Israel was Abraham’s natural offspring (John 8:37); the few faithful believers within Israel, often referred to as the remnant, were his spiritual offspring (Romans 9:6-7; Galatians 3:29); but the Messiah himself was the one and only perfect off-spring, in whom all God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled and through whom people of all nations are blessed (Galatians 3:16; cf. Genesis 12:1-3,Genesis 12:7).

Although the people of Israel repeatedly failed and suffered God’s punishment, they nevertheless looked forward to a golden age of glory and power. The expectancy of a golden age naturally became greater as the exiles in Babylon learnt that they were about to return to their land. But, having returned and rebuilt their nation, they again failed.

Jesus Christ, the embodiment of ideal Israel, not only suffered God’s punishment because of his people’s sins, but brought the glory and power that Israel hoped for but never achieved (cf. Isaiah 42:1-4 with Matthew 12:17-21; cf. Isaiah 53:4 with Matthew 8:17).

In Matthew 12:17–21, Isaiah 42:1–4 is cited as a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies in the life and work of Jesus Christ: And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all. Yet He warned them not to make Him known, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "Behold!

Isaiah 42:1-4
King James Version
42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Isaiah 53:4 ►
Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:
Matthew 8:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by (Isaiah.. the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. ... This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

My beloved brother
Jesus full filled every thing the Torah and other books said about him