MaxInDHouse:


Have i taught you anything?...

Do you teach evil?

Yes!

That's all I will come for you.

You do not even have to teach me!

All you have to do is commit the crime of teaching evil AND AM GONNA COME FOR YOU!

Dtruthspeaker:


This was as a result of an earlier contention we had which was actually an offshoot from this belief of his.

And that was the first time we began this issue for It was in that argument that I foresaw and perceived that he was standing on this false ground.

So I left of the argument with him then to wait for him to show himself.

Which is what this is his thread clearly exhibits.

Dtruthspeaker:


He first started by speaking rightly so much that I had to reasonable conclude he knew God and understood Him UNTIL...

Well, the important thing is to be sure he doesn't condone or justify sin for one who is Born Again.

When I come to a new thread I read from top to bottom to see where every one lays their eggs from page one you can see my comments on sin and how to handle it as written in the scriptures if you fail to read those post and jump to conclusions it shows you don't have the gentle character the holy spirit gives those who love God

There are no words to use to describe one who thinks he can abuse and insult a person using the name of God and Bible to justify his sinful desires

The kingdom of God does not permit using sin to reward sin if at all you wrongly think that I have sinned and am amazed that no one has corrected you on this path of thinking that you keep justifying wow

If non of your friends can not correct or rebuke you on your sinful way of thinking then I pity you you really need the holy spirit to speak to you since you have refused to read and follow his written word

My job is to pray for you so you can see and follow the commandment of Jesus
We actually don't wrestle against flesh and blood we don't fight men made in the image of God we leave room for God to fight for us our job is to forgive for vengeance is mine says the lord God of host

My assignment in life is to rightly preach what is written and I actually have a lot to do that I actually don't have time to engage those who are bent on not renewing their minds
We don't kill people for God or fight men for God we use faith and obedience on God's word to show our character

Like I have always said may you have peace and grow in the knowledge of the truth

Dtruthspeaker:

Do you teach evil?
Yes!
That's all I will come for you.
You do not even have to teach me!
All you have to do is commit the crime of teaching evil AND AM GONNA COME FOR YOU!

Now consider my question:

Have i taught you anything?...

Instead of "YES" or "NO"

Try to read your response and figure out the correlation between the question i asked and your response!

Surely your god is the most stupid ever to have condone such stupidity among it's worshipers! You can't even comprehend a simple question yet you want to argue!

Dtruthspeaker:


Since about 2012, God Left Churches and so when I saw it, I have never gone there.

So, I have no church for them to submit their Applications!

Well your BRETHREN understands you so i'm less concerned!

MaxInDHouse:


I hope you're not counting me along with your brethren on the topic because i'm only observing your confused god that's unable to organize it's worshipers in order for you guys to have the same line of thought!

I just said hello to you like I would to anyone, without even knowing their religious views.
I greet sinners and supposed-religious people alike.
In fact, I often find sinners to be less guilty in the eyes of God, because they at least haven't deceived themselves with deceitful religion... they still have a chance to find the narrow path.

Truly, out of the 3 people I said hello to (you, BK, DT), I find you and your group to be the least Righteous of all of us.
You always claim supposed-righteousness because you "feel friendly to your friends" and are against war.
As I told you before, even atheists feel friendly to their friends, too, and even have social clubs where they meet, just like the JWs do.
And some atheists are probably pacifists, too.
And as I also told you before, even the Catholic Church, the beast church of Bible prophecy, which is many, many times larger than the JWs... even they do SOME things right, like take a stand against abortion (baby-murdering); and they probably like their own too.
So what... they do somethings right. But will any Pope ever go to Heaven ? No !

Why is that ?
Because as I told you before (and it's still the Truth and always will be in the eyes of God):

It's not what we do right that gets us into Heaven.

It's what we continue to do wrong in sin that keeps us out of Heaven.

God's Grace is a given.
The only variable is us... whether we do our part in keeping the (New) Covenant with God... by doing what Jesus teaches, including repentance, forgiveness, and "sinning no more", by the keeping of the Two Most Important Commandments and the Ten Commandments.

But God Himself knows the rebellious aren't convictable by the Holy Spirit.
What is the Holy Spirit to convict people of besides righteousness and judgement ?
Sin.
But your group, the JWs, cherry-picks Scripture and makes up what they want out of it, but only to pretend they're the most righteous group on the face of the Earth.
But the JWs can't even define what is, (transgression of the Law), because they don't accept God's Law of Commandments, even though Jesus Christ very cleary teaches us to keep them !
Your version of religion therefore has no foundation other than supposed "good feelings", and a lot of bragging.
I also told you before, you can boast when you can claim the JWs are sin-free... or even that they teach their people to grow in the Lord by Love, in order to become sin-free.
But since JWs can't even define what sin is in their supposed-religion, you have no current hope of boasting about that.
So go with your feelings, and end up in Hell if you choose.

Who knows... I might still say hello, though, always keeping hope for everyone (even Kobojunkie, although he gets rebuked, too, until he repents).

shadeyinka:

Well, the important thing is to be sure he doesn't condone or justify sin for one who is Born Again.

Yes! That is The Right and The Good!

Until you're ready to learn the truth please stop greeting me! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11

There's no friendship between light and darkness! 2Corinthians 6:14

So whenever you're greeting your BRETHREN count me out!

awitness41:

I just said hello to you like I would to anyone, without even knowing their religious views.
I greet sinners and supposed-religious people alike.
In fact, I often find sinners to be less guilty in the eyes of God, because they at least haven't deceived themselves with deceitful religion... they still have a chance to find the narrow path.

Truly, out of the 3 people I said hello to (you, BK, DT), I find you and your group to be the least Righteous of all of us.
You always claim supposed-righteousness because you "feel friendly to your friends" and are against war.
As I told you before, even atheists feel friendly to their friends, too, and even have social clubs where they meet, just like the JWs do.
And some atheists are probably pacifists, too.
And as I also told you before, even the Catholic Church, the beast church of Bible prophecy, which is many, many times larger than the JWs... even they do SOME things right, like take a stand against abortion (baby-murdering); and they probably like their own too.
So what... they do somethings right. But will any Pope ever go to Heaven ? No !

Why is that ?
Because as I told you before (and it's still the Truth and always will be in the eyes of God):

It's not what we do right that gets us into Heaven.

It's what we continue to do wrong in sin that keeps us out of Heaven.

God's Grace is a given.
The only variable is us... whether we do our part in keeping the (New) Covenant with God... by doing what Jesus teaches, including repentance, forgiveness, and "sinning no more", by the keeping of the Two Most Important Commandments and the Ten Commandments.

But God Himself knows the rebellious aren't convictable by the Holy Spirit.
What is the Holy Spirit to convict people of besides righteousness and judgement ?
Sin.
But your group, the JWs, cherry-picks Scripture and makes up what they want out of it, but only to pretend they're the most righteous group on the face of the Earth.
But the JWs can't even define what is, (transgression of the Law), because they don't accept God's Law of Commandments, even though Jesus Christ very cleary teaches us to keep them !
You're version of religion therefore has no foundation other than supposed "good feelings", and a lot of bragging.
I also told you before, you can boast when you can claim the JWs are sin-free... or even that they teach their people to grow in the Lord by Love, in order to become sin-free.
But since JWs can't even define what sin is in their supposed-religion, you have no current hope of boasting about that.
So go with your feelings, and end up in Hell if you choose.

Who knows... I might still say hello, though, always keeping hope for everyone (even Kobojunkie, although he gets rebuked, too, until he repents).

Bishopkingsley:
When I come to a new thread I read from top to bottom to see where every one lays their eggs from page one you can see my comments on sin and how to handle it as written in the scriptures if you fail to read those post and jump to conclusions it shows you don't have the gentle character the holy spirit gives those who love God

There are no words to use to describe one who thinks he can abuse and insult a person using the name of God and Bible to justify his sinful desires

The kingdom of God does not permit using sin to reward sin if at all you wrongly think that I have sinned and am amazed that no one has corrected you on this path of thinking that you keep justifying wow

If non of your friends can correct or rebuke you on your sinful way of thinking then I pity you you really need the holy spirit to speak to you since you have refused to read and follow his written word

My job is to pray for you so you can see and follow the commandment of Jesus
We actually don't wrestle against flesh and blood we don't fight men made in the image of God we leave room for God to fight for us our job is to forgive for vengeance is mine says the lord God of host

My assignment in life is to rightly preach what is written and I actually have a lot to do that I actually don't have time to engage those who are bent on not renewing their minds
We don't kill people for God or fight men for God we use faith and obedience to God's word to show our character

Like I have always said may you have peace and grow in the knowledge of the truth

Dear Bishopkingsley it is very good the way display self control over the issue, because I myself don't think I can stand that from anyone.
If he takes advantage of your gentle nature again, I think I will step in and teach him how to abuse his elders properly.

Nancy2020:
Dear Bishopkingsley it is very good the way display self control over the issue, because I myself don't think I can stand that from anyone.
If he takes advantage of your gentle nature again, I think I will step in and teach him how to abuse his elders properly.

Thanks no need let show what it actually means to be Christ like in character to those who don't work according to the spirit

MaxInDHouse:
Until you're ready to learn the truth please stop greeting me! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11

There's no friendship between light and darkness! 2Corinthians 6:14

So whenever you're greeting your BRETHREN count me out!

Noted, Max, don't worry about it anymore... but I still won't see you as my enemy.
My only enemies are the devil and his demons, and any un-salvageable human beings whom God knows.
In fact, allow me to thank you... even though I had an inkling from a JW neighbor who lived in my building, still, I didn't know too much about how the JWs really think until I met you.
Now that I know, I will steer clear and won't interact with you much anymore according to your request, with no offense taken.

One last note - if not for you, then for others who read this:

I once learned a lot about Islam from a Muslim, too, and was grateful for having learned about his beliefs.

And I told that fellow about the Bible and Jesus from a Christian viewpoint, and we talked just fine, not trying to convince the other, but just sharing our beliefs.

When I gave that fellow a Ten Commandments bookmark, he saw it and said "This is the greatest thing anyone can give to another!"

Image that... a Muslim knowing and receiving the morality and Righteousness of God !

And I know he was sincere, because he actually put it in a piece of clear plastic and hung it from his car's rearview mirror !

His dad thought I was trying to "Christianize" his son... but he then realized I was really only trying to share God's Standard of Righteousness that we both agree on (except for the Fourth Commandment), and that I was not trying to harm his son in any way.

From that point on, the dad Muslim called me "brother" - which is no offense to me - as he also knows God's Commandments are good.

From that, I will always know that many Muslims will be more receptive to the Truth once they hear it, than most of Christianity which refuses to receive God's Law.

"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination." - Proverbs 28:9 (NKJV)

"Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you." - Jesus in Matthew 21:31 (NKJV)

Bishopkingsley:


Thanks no need let show what it actually means to be Christ like in character to those who don't work according to the spirit

Some people are still growing, BK.

And some might not get there.

Self-control in keeping Christian composure is one of your admirable strengths, BK.

Of course, I don't always agree with all the doctrines you put forth, like (once-saved-always-saved) or (Jesus IS God (instead of IS LIKE God)) or (Sunday-keeping), but still, I'm sure you sincerely believe them.

But I still carry some trust for BK... because I know you don't reject God's Law in total, and yes, your keeping Christian composure is a very good example.

Of course, while one's composure says a lot, we must always keep in mind the Pope also has good composure self-control-wise, and he's evil !

But it's not on my Spirit that you, BK are like the Pope...

MaxInDHouse:
That is the FRUIT befitting your worthless god!

A JW will never accuse another falsely and get away with it because he/she must provide the evidence or a judicial panel will be set up to look into the matter. That's what a Kingdom means!

MaxInDHouse your to raw when you use worthless and the word God in between it not right please

Now on the issue at hand actually

No there is a better way the Bible recommends, scripture say let me paraphrase

It teaches us to take the blame rather than go to court

1 Corinthians 6
Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated?

So a mature Christian takes the lies from another believer even if the other believer falsely accuses him

MaxInDHouse hope you see the better way from God divine wisdom

awitness41:


Some people are still growing, BK.

And some might not get there.

Self-control in keeping Christian composure is one of your admirable strengths, BK.

Of course, I don't always agree with all the doctrines you put forth, like (once-saved-always-saved) or (Jesus IS God (instead of IS LIKE God)) or (Sunday-keeping), but still, I'm sure you sincerely believe them.

But I still carry some trust for BK... because I know you don't reject God's Law in total, and yes, your keeping Christian composure is a very good example.

Of course, while one's composure says a lot, we must always keep in mind the Pope also has good composure self-control-wise, and he's evil !

But it's not on my Spirit that you, BK are like the Pope...

If at all the prophetical notion from seventh day Adventist about the anti christ is truly the pope then note this all the pope as a person individually are not evil in nature but

Rather the one who will occupy the sit (office) and display the characteristics of the Antichrist so, stop thinking all past pope are evil

So always remember pope is not the problem but the office of the pope

Stop saying all pope are evil note Antichrist may come from any church in Rome because
Actually all churches originate from catholic
Ellen white your founder her name total calculation gives 666 i hope you know that

awitness41:


Of course, I don't always agree with all the doctrines you put forth, like (once-saved-always-saved) or (Jesus IS God (instead of IS LIKE God)) or (Sunday-keeping), but still, I'm sure you sincerely believe them.

One day tell me when we both sit and talk about this topics so I can clearly show you from scriptures what God is saying

Bishopkingsley:


If at all the prophetical notion from seventh day Adventist about the anti christ is truly the pope then note this all the pope as a person individually are not evil in nature but

Rather the one who will occupy the sit (office) and display the characteristics of the Antichrist so, stop thinking all past pope are evil

So always remember pope is not the problem but the office of the pope

Stop saying all pope are evil note Antichrist may come from any church in Rome because
Actually all churches originate from catholic
Ellen white your founder her name total calculation gives 666 i hope you know that

-------

One day tell me when we both sit and talk about this topics so I can clearly show you from scriptures what God is saying

BK, you're wrong on that... Ellen White is not my founder, nor am I an Adventist.
Regarding "once-saved-always-saved" though,, the SDAs are correct, that doctrine is not valid, as noted by their link that I gave. Why should I repeat what is already almost perfectly-said ?
Of course, all churches have some right doctrines and some wrong doctrines.
Unlike many churches, the Adventists are right more often than they are wrong if one is using the Bible for their discernment.
But still, SDAs do have some wrong doctrines too... less than most churches probably, but even so, the SDAs are not perfect like the Bible is, and still carry some wrong doctrines, as well as a lot of pride at the top and in "their person" Ellen White... strange, because they accuse the Catholic church of similar things.

As far as the Popes past and present... one cannot believe they are God's or Jesus' stand-in on Earth and still get to Heaven.
And you know they consider themselves such.
For a standard-issue sinful human being to consider themselves as such is blasphemy... it's what the devil does, tries to be in God's place.
Yet, if any Pope actually read the Bible (as opposed to their sly and evil "Catechism Manual" ), and takes the time to see what Jesus actually says, sure, any Pope, being human still, could still repent and be saved.

Finally, regarding discussing wrong doctrines, let me say that the foundation of all wrong doctrines is not including every relevant Verse on the matter.
In other words, people try to ignore or throw out (or even add to or subtract from) Scripture that doesn't suit what they wish to say.
But no Scripture can be thrown out, and all relevant Scriptures on a given doctrinal topic must be kept and reconciled... for ALL truth !

For example, I quoted Hebrews 10:26-31, which must also be kept regarding "once-saved-always-saved" (OSAS), because it quite clearly points out the fact that people can backslide out of Salvation altogether.
Now I know some OSAS-ers would say, "Well, the people who Hebrews was actually talking about weren't saved in the first place" or something like that, but that's because they would prefer not to notice the part that says "by which they were sanctified"... and so on.
And there are more Verses ignored on the topic, too.

Just think of the JWs... they couldn't possibly come up with half their doctrines (or more) without blatantly ignoring other relevant Scriptures.

Same with the Jesus IS God thing... Jesus is NOT God, but is almost exactly LIKE God in power and authority as God's Son.
One would have to throw out a whole bunch of Scripture to "prove" otherwise... or mangle Scripture beyond belief (literally)... which is exactly what they do to keep whatever treasured (bad) doctrines they wish to keep.

So... anyway, I have to get going, BK.
I know you believe what you believe, and I'm not going to change your mind.
And you won't change my mind either at this point, so we simply have to disgree agreeably and carry on.
I wish you no ill will, but only Peace.

awitness41:


BK, you're wrong on that... Ellen White is not my founder, nor am I an Adventist.
Regarding "once-saved-always-saved" though,, the SDAs are correct, that doctrine is not valid, as noted by their link that I gave. Why should I repeat what is already almost perfectly-said ?
Of course, all churches have some right doctrines and some wrong doctrines.
Unlike many churches, the Adventists are right more often than they are wrong if one is using the Bible for their discernment.
But still, SDAs do have some wrong doctrines too... less than most churches probably, but even so, the SDAs are not perfect like the Bible is, and still carry some wrong doctrines, as well as a lot of pride at the top and in "their person" Ellen White... strange, because they accuse the Catholic church of similar things.

As far as the Popes past and present... one cannot believe they are God's or Jesus' stand-in on Earth and still get to Heaven.
And you know they consider themselves such.
For a standard-issue sinful human being to consider themselves as such is blasphemy... it's what the devil does, tries to be in God's place.
Yet, if any Pope actually read the Bible (as opposed to their sly and evil "Catechism Manual" ), and takes the time to see what Jesus actually says, sure, any Pope, being human still, could still repent and be saved.

Finally, regarding discussing wrong doctrines, let me say that the foundation of all wrong doctrines is not including every relevant Verse on the matter.
In other words, people try to ignore or throw out (or even add to or subtract from) Scripture that doesn't suit what they wish to say.
But no Scripture can be thrown out, and all relevant Scriptures on a given doctrinal topic must be kept and reconciled... for ALL truth !

For example, I quoted Hebrews 10:26-31, which must also be kept regarding "once-saved-always-saved" (OSAS), because it quite clearly points out the fact that people can backslide out of Salvation altogether.
Now I know some OSAS-ers would say, "Well, the people who Hebrews was actually talking about weren't saved in the first place" or something like that, but that's because they would prefer not to notice the part that says "by which they were sanctified"... and so on.
And there are more Verses ignored on the topic, too.

Just think of the JWs... they couldn't possibly come up with half their doctrines (or more) without blatantly ignoring other relevant Scriptures.

Same with the Jesus IS God thing... Jesus is NOT God, but is almost exactly LIKE God in power and authority as God's Son.
One would have to throw out a whole bunch of Scripture to "prove" otherwise... or mangle Scripture beyond belief (literally)... which is exactly what they do to keep whatever treasured (bad) doctrines they wish to keep.

So... anyway, I have to get going, BK.
I know you believe what you believe, and I'm not going to change your mind.
And you won't change my mind either at this point, so we simply have to disgree agreeably and carry on.
I wish you no ill will, but only Peace.

Something got my attention I stopped reading at this juncture

awitness41:


the SDAs are not perfect like the Bible is,

Are you saying that the holy Bible of the living God is not perfect

Because once I hear this from any body then I will know they are not from God

Kindly clarify your statement here

Noted thanks!
You don't offend JW when you greet us but never try to categorize us alongside any religion as fellow believers or worshipers because our own God totally differs from all their Gods once you don't do that then you'll get a smile of pleasure and approval from JWs! Deuteronomy 12:30

awitness41:

Noted, Max, don't worry about it anymore... but I still won't see you as my enemy.
My only enemies are the devil and his demons, and any un-salvageable human beings whom God knows.
In fact, allow me to thank you... even though I had an inkling from a JW neighbor who lived in my building, still, I didn't know too much about how the JWs really think until I met you.
Now that I know, I will steer clear and won't interact with you much anymore according to your request, with no offense taken.
One last note - if not for you, then for others who read this:
I once learned a lot about Islam from a Muslim, too, and was grateful for having learned about his beliefs.
And I told that fellow about the Bible and Jesus from a Christian viewpoint, and we talked just fine, not trying to convince the other, but just sharing our beliefs.
When I gave that fellow a Ten Commandments bookmark, he saw it and said "This is the greatest thing anyone can give to another!"
Image that... a Muslim knowing and receiving the morality and Righteousness of God !
And I know he was sincere, because he actually put it in a piece of clear plastic and hung it from his car's rearview mirror !
His dad thought I was trying to "Christianize" his son... but he then realized I was really only trying to share God's Standard of Righteousness that we both agree on (except for the Fourth Commandment), and that I was not trying to harm his son in any way.
From that point on, the dad Muslim called me "brother" - which is no offense to me - as he also knows God's Commandments are good.
From that, I will always know that many Muslims will be more receptive to the Truth once they hear it, than most of Christianity which refuses to receive God's Law.
"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination." - Proverbs 28:9 (NKJV)
"Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you." - Jesus in Matthew 21:31 (NKJV)

A god that failed to settle the racial prejudice affecting it's worshipers is worthless because the first thing a god supposed to do is unite his worshipers through the standard and form of worship they all engage in. But once that is missing them such a god is worthless it would have been better not to have a god than that which couldn't unite it's worshipers as ONE! John 17:20-23

As for the admonition in Paul's letter it means a Christian shouldn't take vengeance against his fellow believer but in your case with your so called brethren you guys are not on the same page under that worthless TRINITY dogheads yet you're deceiving yourselves claiming TRINITY is a good god!

Bishopkingsley:

MaxInDHouse your to raw when you use worthless and the word God in between it not right please
Now on the issue at hand actually
No there is a better way the Bible recommends, scripture say let me paraphrase
It teaches us to take the blame rather than go to court
1 Corinthians 6
Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated?
So a mature Christian takes the lies from another believer even if the other believer falsely accuses him
MaxInDHouse hope you see the better way from God divine wisdom

MaxInDHouse:
A god that failed to settle the racial prejudice affecting it's worshipers is worthless because the first thing a god supposed to do is unite his worshipers through the standard and form of worship they all engage in. But once that is missing them such a god is worthless it would have been better not to have a god than that which couldn't unite it's worshipers as ONE! John 17:20-23

As for the admonition in Paul's letter it means a Christian shouldn't take vengeance against his fellow believer but in your case with your so called brethren you guys are not on the same page under that worthless TRINITY dogheads yet you're deceiving yourselves claiming TRINITY is a good god!

You want to tell God when to bring everyone under one roof wow

Anyways I have told you when new heaven and new earth comes that when the complete unity will emerge

Right now Bible says we all know in part we do every thing in part

God time to finally defeat all evil has not yet reached so don't mix it up ahead of time

That scriptures is not taking about vengeance only read it properly to see it about also about resolving dispute

Some times I wonder if you actually read Bible

1 Corinthians 6
Topic is Avoiding Lawsuits with Christians

1 When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers[a]!
2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves?
3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.
4 If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church?
5 I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues?
6 But instead, one believer[b] sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

7 Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated?
8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.[c]

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Well according to God's word FAITH at work is the real faith {James 2:26} Jehovah's Witnesses have a solid undeniable EVIDENCE that their God is real as they have demonstrated how the New Heaven (Government under God's arrangement) and the New Earth (Obedient Mankind) will live peacefully in the future!
This people have a GOVERNING BODY and all of them are faithfully obedient to those taking the lead {Hebrews 13:7, 17} that's why it is possible for what Jesus prayed for to manifest in their midst:

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" John 17:22

Where are the WORKS of your DEAD FAITH? James 2:18

Bishopkingsley:

You want to tell God when to bring everyone under one roof wow

Anyways I have told you when new heaven and new earth comes that when the complete unity will emerge

Right now Bible says we all know in part we do every thing in part

God time to finally defeat all evil has not yet reached so don't mix it up ahead of time

That scriptures is not taking about vengeance only read it properly to see it about also about resolving dispute

Some times I wonder if you actually read Bible

1 Corinthians 6
Topic is Avoiding Lawsuits with Christians

1 When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers[a]!
2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves?
3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.
4 If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church?
5 I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues?
6 But instead, one believer[b] sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

7 Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated?
8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.[c]

awitness41:
Hi Max. Hi BK. Hi DTruthSpeaker. (I hold no offense to those I sometimes disagree with... nor should any of you of course, as you know.)
I hope you are having a good Bible Sabbath day today.

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but as for the original topic... a supposedly "Saved" man can definitely choose to be lost again.

This is a great link on the topic here: https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/17/t/can-a-saved-man-choose-to-be-lost-

Also, food for thought... Hebrews 10:26-31 (NKJV):
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God's Part: of the Covenant: Grace.

Our Part of the Covenant: Repent, forgive, and keep God's Commandments (as summarized in the Two Most Important Commandents and the Ten Commandments).

If we do not do our part by keeping Jesus' Teachings (which also include God's Commandments), then we reject God's part (Grace), simple as that.

I don't agree with DTruthSpeaker on all things, but regarding the keeping of God's Commandments... Jesus will tell the lawless and workers of iniquity (inquity = sin = transgression of the Law of God's Commandments) that He never knew them.. meaning they will not be going the Heaven. And we can only keep God's Commandments if we Love God and others as ourself... as Jesus says in John 14:15, "If you Love Me, keep my Commandments."

It's so easy, but the lawless (i.e. not only law-breakers, but also those who claim there is no law), and pretenders who believe God's Grace alone is the entire Covenant between Himself and us... they are sadly mistaken.

A Covenant requires TWO parties to agree.
God has done His part - that is, Grace - already.
We must also do OUR part, or else we reject the Covenant in its entirety.
It's so easy... but lawless people and pretenders deceive themselves with incomplete doctrines, because they like to cherry-pick to suit themselves (or their brand of religion) and do not include all Verses on a given matter.

Anyway... I hope you are doing well.

Now let explain properly
Hebrews 10:26-31

Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation? Answer is no

For if we are willfully sinning after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice concerning sins.” Hebrews 10:26-29 warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, right up to the edge of saving belief, who hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then reject what they have learned and turn away. These are people who are perhaps even aware of their sin and even make a profession of faith. But rather than going on to spiritual maturity, their interest in Christ begins to diminish, the things of the world have more attraction to them rather than less, and eventually they lose all desire for the things of God and they turn away. The Lord illustrated these types of people in the second and third soils of Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. These are those who “receive with joy” the things of the Lord, but who are drawn away by the cares of the world or turned off by difficulties they encounter because of Christ.

Willful sinning” in this passage carries the idea of consciously and deliberately rejecting Christ. To know God’s way, to hear it preached, to study it, to count oneself among the faithful, and then to turn away is to become apostate. Sinning willfully carries with it the idea of sinning continually and deliberately. Such a person does not sin because of ignorance, nor is he carried away by momentary temptations he is too weak to resist. The willful sinner sins because of an established way of thinking and acting which he has no desire to give up. The true believer, on the other hand, is one who lapses into sin and loses temporary fellowship with God. But he will eventually come back to God in repentance because his heavenly Father will continually woo and convict him until he can’t stay away any longer. The true apostate will continue to sin, deliberately, willingly and with abandon. John tells us that “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).

Apostates have knowledge, but no application of that knowledge. They can be found in the presence of the light of Christ, mostly in the church, among God’s people. Judas Iscariot is the perfect example—he had knowledge but he lacked true faith. No other rejecter of the truth had more or better exposure to the love and grace of God than Judas. He was part of Jesus’ inner circle of disciples, eating, sleeping, and traveling with Him for years. He saw the miracles and heard the words of God from Jesus’ very lips, from the best preacher the world has ever known, and yet he not only turned away but was instrumental in the plot to kill Jesus.

Having turned his back on the truth, and with full knowledge choosing to willfully and continually sin, the apostate is then beyond salvation because he has rejected the one true sacrifice for sins: the Lord Jesus Christ. If Christ’s sacrifice is rejected, then all hope of salvation is gone. To turn away willfully from this sacrifice leaves no sacrifice; it leaves only sin, the penalty for which is eternal death. This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not. Anyone who apostatizes is proving he never had genuine faith to begin with (1 John 2:19).

shadeyinka:

Now I think Dtruthspeaker and Bishopkingsley are saying the same thing from two different point

Therefore, a person who is TRULY saved by God is is known by his FRUIT of righteousness and good works

awitness41:

I know you surely did, my friend.

Now let see what God says about those that are forever saved

Now from the scriptures shown we can see

Once God gives you a new heart and put his holy spirit in you God takes over your life and your body and look at what God said the holy spirit will do for you

Ezekiel 36:27 ►
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.


God will move you to do his laws

Now is there any place here where you move your self by yourself by your own power

We see God saying in his Word you are not the one living when he saves you forever rather it is Jesus Christ who now lives inside you

Romans 6:14 ►
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

New Living Translation
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

Hebrews 10:16 ►
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

New Living Translation
“This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

Read down to see more forever saved confirmation

15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

16 “This is the new covenant I will make
with my people on that day,[c] says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[d]
17 Then he says,

“I will never again remember
their sins and lawless deeds.”

This is the almighty God taking an oat with us God vow to never remember our sins because it is Christ who is now living in us sin is not controlling us because we are living a holy life

Galatians 2:
20.My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

awitness41: where is your friend that says obeying God laws only makes you right with God come explain

Galatians 2:20b
For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

I told you the law is like a laboratory test result to show us what is actually wrong with us but the solution of the problem is Jesus

Ezekiel 36:26 ►
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

New Living Translation
And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

Ezekiel 36:27 ►
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Once God gives you this promise above you will be doing God's will like eating beans it will then become so easy it no longer a struggle

We that are saved forever are not the ones living rather it is God living through us
That is why sin has been defeated in our lives

The desire for sin no longer exists it completely dead we dominate sin

We walk in Jesus Righteousness
That same Righteousness Jesus Christ has is what we have

So you need to rightly divide the word of truth if you actually know you are saved

If you have the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues you will never open your mouth and say God can forsake you for one reason or another

Jesus declared I will never leave you or forsake you even to the end of the world

When God writes his word in your heart guess what happens you can never live in sin
How can you live in sin, when the only thing popping up in your heart is the word of God

You will naturally do right when God writes his laws in your heart you will naturally be living right you actually become holy it not a big problem to be holy for God

Because all that is in your heart is God words

This is the level of faith where those who don't have holy spirit don't understand they think it is us that will force ourselves to be obeying God they don't know it flows through us easily like breathing air

The same mind that Jesus has is the same mind I have all we want to be doing is the will of God not even our own we just want to obey God

Our heart is crying my father my father
Each day, and each day we eat the word we just want to please God the desire for sin no longer shows up because when Jesus died we died with him and when he rose up we rose up with him

Oh I wish you can experience this new birth this type of life that Jesus is actually talking about how sweet it is this is the level where God possess you the same way you see Satan takes over mad Men he actually learnt it from God and twisted it

That is how God takes over our body the difference is we are not mad for the wrong things rather we are totally consumed by God words

How can you know this things am talking about when you don't understand who the holy spirit is accept Jesus into your life then the things I say will become a reality to you

Finally you cannot experience this things unless God Himself draws you to himself

God is the one who decides who he want and when he does that you are forever saved

MaxInDHouse:

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Well according to God's word FAITH at work is the real faith {James 2:26} Jehovah's Witnesses have a solid undeniable EVIDENCE that their God is real as they have demonstrated how the New Heaven (Government under God's arrangement) and the New Earth (Obedient Mankind) will live peacefully in the future!
This people have a GOVERNING BODY and all of them are faithfully obedient to those taking the lead {Hebrews 13:7, 17} that's why it is possible for what Jesus prayed for to manifest in their midst:

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" John 17:22

Where are the WORKS of your DEAD FAITH? James 2:18

JW have not one single work the Bible said they don't believe God power works so tell Me how you can say that you have God glory when you don't have the power of God working in your organization

Don't you see how you lie to yourself you already said that God has stopped showing his power because they the GB know that they can't speak in tongues that why they said that because God did not give them his power because they are not actually obeying God commandment

So which glory do you have

Because only God glory that matters

Isaiah 42:8
8. I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols.


Here shows God can't give his praise to any one including angels so if Jesus is angel how come he receives the same praise God get when God vow no other will enjoy it apart from him


This is the mistake many people like JW continue to make: trusting in earthly things, earthly relationships, their own powers or talents or beauty, or the goodness they see in others. But when these things fade and fail as they will inevitably do (being only temporary carriers of the greater glory), these people despair.

Put your faith in the lord Jesus not in your organization which will be burnt up when Jesus comes I hope you know that every thing will be destroyed for the new earth to emerge

Did God's people ever speak in tongues until the first century?
Come on stop fooling around with deception it was meant for a purpose and once that purpose has been met it becomes useless! 1Corinthians 13:8-10
Today God's people are in all languages so what exactly is the purpose of your stupid tongue when you're not united?
For your information Zephaniah prophesied that God's people will speak one spiritual language so that they can worship as ONE BODY and that's exactly what is happening among Jehovah's Witnesses today {Zephaniah 3:9} that's what God's Holy Spirit made possible in the first century to foreshadow the event that will occur in our own time.
Today there's no language on earth that JWs don't have people preaching and teaching in such tongue. That's the purpose of speaking in tongues apart from that your stupid tongue is worthless if there's no UNITY in your TRINITY dogheads!

Bishopkingsley:


JW have not one single work the Bible said they don't believe God power works so tell Me how you can say that you have God glory when you don't have the power of God working in your organization

Don't you see how you lie to yourself you already said that God has stopped showing his power because they the GB know that they can't speak in tongues that why they said that because God did not give them his power because they are not actually obeying God commandment

So which glory do you have

Because only God glory that matters

Isaiah 42:8
8. I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols.


Here shows God can't give his praise to any one including angels so if Jesus is angel how come he receives the same praise God get when God vow no other will enjoy it apart from him


This is the mistake many people like JW continue to make: trusting in earthly things, earthly relationships, their own powers or talents or beauty, or the goodness they see in others. But when these things fade and fail as they will inevitably do (being only temporary carriers of the greater glory), these people despair.

Put your faith in the lord Jesus not in your organization which will be burnt up when Jesus comes I hope you know that every thing will be destroyed for the new earth to emerge

MaxInDHouse:
Did God's people ever speak in tongues until the first century?
Come on stop fooling around with deception it was meant for a purpose and once that purpose has been met it becomes useless! 1Corinthians 13:8-10
Today God's people are in all languages so what exactly is the purpose of your stupid tongue when you're not united?
For your information Zephaniah prophesied that God's people will speak one spiritual language so that they can worship as ONE BODY and that's exactly what is happening among Jehovah's Witnesses today {Zephaniah 3:9} that's what God's Holy Spirit made possible in the first century to foreshadow the event that will occur in our own time.
Today there's no language on earth that JWs don't have people preaching and teaching in such tongue. That's the purpose of speaking in tongues apart from that your stupid tongue is worthless if there's no UNITY in your TRINITY dogheads!

I told you your comments was raw yet your repeated it and sad because you act like you are hell bent on not using gentle kind words even when you know God head is clearly written in your Bible it is a pity that your own defense is to ridicule spiritual things because
Your losing the plot

MaxInDHouse when you are ready to engage in a respectful manner I will gladly respond to you with the same respect

I never want to engage idol worshipers before nah!
Your useless TRINITY dogheads is a worthless god if it can't do anything tangible it's a useless worthless hopeless god you're worshiping in fact that's why i detests you calling me your brother!
Goodbye!

Bishopkingsley:

I told you your comments was raw yet your repeated it and sad because you act like you are hell bent on not using gentle kind words even when you know God head is clearly written in your Bible it is a pity that your own defense is to ridicule spiritual things because
Your losing the plot

MaxInDHouse when you are ready to engage in a respectful manner I will gladly respond to you with the same respect

Bishopkingsley:


Something got my attention I stopped reading at this juncture

Are you saying that the holy Bible of the living God is not perfect

Because once I hear this from any body then I will know they are not from God

Kindly clarify your statement here

(1) I'll repeat what I said here: "... the SDAs are not perfect like the Bible is,"

It should be clear, but to put it in other words, I was saying, the SDAs are NOT perfect, but the BIBLE IS PERFECT.

This is exactly why I implore you to stop ignoring Bible Verses - ANY VERSES - when gathering a doctrine together.

True, the Jehovah's Witnesses might be quite bad doctrinally, by ignoring lots of Scripture to cobble together whatever they believe.

But others are not too far behind in this sinful and adulterous generation.

(2) Finally, to address another question you asked above in a different post... you asked this:
awitness41: where is your friend that says obeying God laws only makes you right with God come explain

I'll explain by something I also said above in this post: https://www.nairaland.com/6616393/once-saved-then-saved-forever/5#106381946

It's not what we do right that gets us into Heaven.

It's what we continue to do wrong in sin that keeps us out of Heaven.

God's Grace is a given.
The only variable is us... whether we do our part in keeping the (New) Covenant with God... by doing what Jesus teaches, including repentance, forgiveness, and "sinning no more", by the keeping of the Two Most Important Commandments and the Ten Commandments.

Obviously, a believer's heart has to be right... to be receptive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit... and they must put "self" aside to live by the Spirit... all things Jesus teaches.

But it's not like a Believer has NO PART to play in their Salvation.

That bad concept can only come by cherry-picking (and sometimes misusing) Verses, without considering ALL OTHER RELEVANT SCRIPTURE, after which one hashes together a false narrative based on incomplete information - again, by not using ALL relevant Scripture on the matter, RECONCILED TOGETHER.

I also mentioned similarly here in another post above:

God's Part of the Covenant: Grace.

Our Part of the Covenant: Repent, forgive, and keep God's Commandments (as summarized in the Two Most Important Commandents and the Ten Commandments).

If we do not do our part by keeping Jesus' Teachings (which also include God's Commandments), then we reject God's part (Grace), simple as that.

I don't agree with DTruthSpeaker on all things, but regarding the keeping of God's Commandments... Jesus will tell the lawless and workers of iniquity (inquity = sin = transgression of the Law of God's Commandments) that He never knew them.. meaning they will not be going the Heaven. And we can only keep God's Commandments if we Love God and others as ourself... as Jesus says in John 14:15, "If you Love Me, keep my Commandments."

It's so easy, but the lawless (i.e. not only law-breakers, but also those who claim there is no law), and pretenders who believe God's Grace alone is the entire Covenant between Himself and us... they are sadly mistaken.

As are those who pretend the Divine Holy Spirit will "take us over" with OR without our consent.

And yes, there is backsliding also... again, see the document here proving it:
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/17/t/can-a-saved-man-choose-to-be-lost-

OR,
besides Hebrews 10 (I saw what you wrote, knowing what you would say ahead of time),
OR the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (who was already forgiven... and by the way, God can UN-forgive already-forgiven sins),
OR Ezekiel 18:19-32 (especially Verses 24 and 26, which the "once-saved-always-saved" people also ignore),
just ask Peter:
2 Peter 1 (NKJV):
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Why would Peter implore us to "make our election sure" if we can't be lost ?
He wouldn't.

To imply or pretend a Believer has little to no say in the matter of their own Salvation, or can't be lost once they're saved, denies free will... so therefore, AGAIN, we need to use ALL relevant Scripture on each doctrinal matter to form a COMPLETE DOCTRINE, containing ALL TRUTH and THROWING OUT NOTHING.

Lastly, please know that when I type in bold and/or in CAPS, I do so for EMPHASIS.
Peace to you, BK.

But I do not want to continue repeat the same thing over and over to those who don't really want to listen anyway.

Nor do I really want to do "religious battle" with any person who is already entrenched in their beliefs, as I myself am (but only because I use ALL relevant Bible Verses reconciled together... line upon line, precept upon precept... to form my doctrinal beliefs, passing the muster of the Holy Spirit who guides me through my Lord Jesus Christ.)

But for thoroughness-sake, one last time... as my God is Witness: If we ignore NO Scripture, then we will come to proper doctrine in everything.

Amen.

MaxInDHouse:
I never want to engage idol worshipers before nah!
Your useless TRINITY dogheads is a worthless god if it can't do anything tangible it's a useless worthless hopeless god you're worshiping in fact that's why i detests you calling me your brother!
Goodbye!

God bless you

Just for the sake of others who might read this besides BK.

There IS backsliding that gets us blotted out from the Book of Life.

We can give up our Salvation if we return to sin.

In addition to the post a couple of posts above here, here are a few more Bible Verses where this is evident:

The Parable of the Fig Tree Which Wasn't Bearing Fruit - Luke 13:6-9 (NKJV)

6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'"

Jesus is the Vine, and His Believers are the Branches - John 15:1-6 (NKJV)

15 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Not only are we to continue to abide in Jesus and "sin no more", but just like the Parable of the Barren Fig tree above, if we simply do not bear fruit (meaning if we don't share the Gospel with others in a trustworthy manner), we will also be "cast out" and "thrown in the fire and be burned". (That means Hell Fire for the unintiated).

There's Love and there's Truth, friends.

God and Jesus are both Love and Truth in full equal measure.

And They require the same of their children... God and Jesus require responsibility, because They Love their children.

So don't be deceived by wishful thinkers whose doctrines are incomplete because they refuse to use ALL relevant BIble Verses on a given matter.

If you use ALL related Bible Verses on a given matter for your discernments, THROWING OUT NONE, and reconcile them together for ALL Truth, you will know the Truth, and will be set free.

Endure to the end in a relationship with God and Jesus - repenting, forgiving, sinning no more, and bearing fruit, by Love.

awitness41:



God can UN-forgive already-forgiven sins),
OR Ezekiel 18:19-32 (especially Verses 24 and 26, which the "once-saved-always-saved" people also ignore),

Let handle this first before I look at the other once

I want to breakdown Ezekiel 18:24. This is a verse that few people have used to belittle God's ultimate power

, saying it proves that God does not forgive future sins and there is no forever saved principle even if when we place our faith in Christ,
that God only forgives past sins. They contended that this verse clearly shows how a believer in Christ could lose their salvation if they turn away from righteousness toward wickedness. Let’s look into it.

Here’s the verse in question.

“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:24 NKJV)

The assertion is that this verse proves that if a saved believer in Christ turns to a lifestyle of sin and wickedness, acting no differently than the unsaved, then that person’s prior righteousness will not be remembered. He will die in his sins and suffer eternal punishment in hell. This then proves that when we place our faith in Christ, only the sins that we’ve committed up to that point are forgiven. Future sins could still send us to hell if we turn from following Christ and live a lifestyle of wickedness.

Well, this assertion is actually fairly easy to disprove.

First, Ezekiel 18:24 says absolutely nothing about eternal judgment. It is talking about physical death, that if those who were once righteous turn to wickedness, then they will not live out their full lives but will die before their time. There is no language whatsoever in this verse to indicate that such a person is being eternally judged. The verse just says they will die.

This becomes abundantly clear when we look at the Hebrew text. The Hebrew word for “die” in this verse is the word “muwth.” It means, “to die (as penalty), be put to death,” “to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct).” This verse is speaking about physical death, not about the eternal judgment of that person.

Second, if you think this verse also means that the person will be eternally condemned, then you have a problem, because you would have to apply that same standard to verse 21, which would contradict clear teaching on salvation. Verse 21 is very similar and says this:

“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.” (Ezekiel 18:21 NKJV)

So if you say that the righteous person who turned to wickedness was eternally judged and sent to hell, then you also have to say this wicked person who turned to righteousness will be eternally saved. But is that the case awitness41?


Now
How is a person saved, by faith or by obeying the Law? We are saved by faith in Christ alone, not by obeying the Law or our own works of righteousness.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)

Yet Ezekiel 18:21 says all who obey the Law will live. If this verse is talking about eternal salvation, then it teaches that the way to be saved is to obey the law. That directly contradicts what Paul said to the Ephesians, what Jesus said in John 3, and a whole host of other verses about faith in Christ being the means of salvation.

Therefore, Ezekiel 18:21 cannot be referring to eternal salvation, just as verse 24 is not talking about eternal condemnation. The message of both verses in Ezekiel 18 is the same and it is the plain reading of the text:

If you want to live out your full life as a blessing from God and not be put to physical death early, then pursue righteousness and not wickedness.

So neither of these verses in Ezekiel 18 are talking about eternal judgment. They’re talking about physical death.

Does this then mean that a saved believer who turns to unrepentant wickedness will still be saved?

YES, 100%! But note knowing this principles won't lead the saved man to live in sin because Jesus actually has taken care of sin for sin shall not have dominion over you

Back to this principle
Does this then mean that a saved believer who turns to unrepentant wickedness will still be saved?

YES, 100%!

And we have proof of that in Scripture. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul speaks of a saved believer who was engaging in wickedness, having an ongoing sexual relationship with his mother-in-law, and was totally unrepentant. What was Paul’s response? He judged the person and decided:

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV)

This unrepentant believer would die early, before his time, just as Ezekiel 18 says will happen to those who turn to wickedness, but he would still be saved. How could that be when he was unrepentant? Because salvation is based on our faith in Christ alone and the moment we place our faith in Christ, all sins (past, present and future) are forgiven. We are eternally saved.

Our salvation is a free gift from God. It does not depend on our own works of repentance from sin. Repenting from sin could not save you to begin with and it cannot keep you saved. The only thing that saves is faith in Christ. That is why Christ is referred to as a stumbling block. People stumble over Him because they think that they have to do something to earn their salvation. “I promise, God, I will repent of all sins and never sin again.” Good luck with that. No!

Since Christ is the Perfect Sacrifice, when we place our faith in Him, ALL SINS (past, present and future) are immediately wiped from our record. I can’t say it enough: Salvation is not based on our behavior but on faith in Christ.

Salvation is not earned. It is a free gift. Therefore, even the most unrighteous, unrepentant person, the thief on the cross for example, will still be saved solely because he has faith in Christ. That is why the message of the cross is called, “The Gospel.” The word “gospel” means “good news.” The good news is that no matter what you’ve done or how badly you’ve messed up your life, God is willing to forgive you and grant you eternal life. All you have to do is believe that God sent His Son, Jesus, to die in your place, to pay your debt of sin for you.

In Colossians 2, Paul said that when we place our faith in Christ, all sins are forgiven, not just the past sins up to that point. Our record before God is wiped clean.

“And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He set aside, nailing it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:13-14 ESV)

The moment you place your faith in Christ, believing that His death on the cross was for you, that He took the punishment you deserve because of your debt of sin to God and that His blood paid for your sins, that very moment, all sins are forgiven, forever. That is why the writer of Hebrews says that Christ sat down at the right hand of the Father, because He offered the perfect sacrifice and no more sacrifice was needed.

To further prove that all sins are forgiven when we place our faith in Christ (past, present and future sins), Paul goes on to say that when we believe in Jesus, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, GUARANTEEING our salvation. Paul says it three times:

“In Him (Jesus) you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory.” (Ephesians 1:13-14 ESV)

“And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30 KJV)

How can we grieve the Holy Spirit? By sinning. But notice here that even when we sin, we remain sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

“Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come.” (2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV)

Notice here that it is God Who keeps us in this faith and secures us, not our own repentance or obedience. This same thought is echoed in the book of Jude.

“Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.” (Jude 1:24-25 KJV)

If it is God Who makes us stand firm in Christ and it is God Who keeps us from falling, then you cannot lose your salvation. It’s not up to you to repent of sins day after day to keep yourself saved. All your sins were nailed to the cross. After we’re saved, repenting of sins daily is definitely something we should do, but that has nothing to do with salvation, only maintaining our fellowship with God.

For all those who think that you still need to repent of sins daily to keep your salvation, let me ask you: Have you repented of ALL sins? No, you haven’t. None of us have. There are sins we are not even aware of or have forgotten about, that only a Perfect God can see. But thanks be to God, because Christ offered the Perfect Sacrifice, sealed us with His Perfect Holy Spirit, and keeps us secure by His power until the day of salvation.

So, bottom line, Ezekiel 18 has nothing to do with someone losing salvation. As believers, we still face the consequence of sin in this life, including possibly losing our lives early due to sin. But for those who trust in Christ, eternal judgment of sin was dealt with completely at the cross. Jesus put it this way:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24 KJV)

God is not waiting until the end of our lives to determine if we’re saved. Eternal salvation, everlasting life, starts the moment you believe in Jesus.

If you are still unsure of this, I’ve done two other videos that might help: One on the sureness of our salvation

God would welcome you into heaven, I urge you to make your commitment to Jesus secure right now. This world is crumbling apart, which is a sign that Jesus is coming very, very soon. Don’t put this off any longer.

Here’s a prayer for salvation that you can pray. But keep in mind that a prayer does not save you. You are saved only when you place your trust in Jesus alone, believing in your heart that He died to pay your debt of sin to God and that He rose from the dead to show you the eternal life that He offers. This prayer, then, is just a way of formalizing that decision, putting a stake in the ground, saying that you are trusting in Him and never going back. If that’s what you would like to do, please pray with me:

“Lord, I have sinned and I need you to save me. I believe that Your Son Jesus died on the cross to pay for my sins and that He rose from the dead to show us the new eternal life You have for us. I believe solely in Jesus to save me, that He paid my debt of sin 100%. Please forgive my sins and save me now, Lord, according to your promises. In Jesus Name.”

After this it now up to God to decide to save you because it not of works least any man should boast

God decides according to his own purpose and plans

You can not be saved unless God Himself draws you towards him

awitness41:



But it's not like a Believer has NO PART to play in their Salvation.

You are totally wrong romans 9:9-24
Does not link your above statement one bit

Am sorry you keep wanting to be a part of your salvation but you keep failing because you are using sense for God and that is not what Bible says you can use on God

God is out to confound the wise to destroy the wisdom of this world stop calculating salvation principles it not with your sense or any thing you want or do

Now is the time to yield to God because all Bible verse you put in your head I will by God's grace knock them down so that God will be lifted high above everything

You must see God as the ultimate the only one who does not need your help for anything

awitness41:



Obviously, a believer's heart has to be right... to be receptive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit... and they must put "self" aside to live by the Spirit... all things Jesus teaches.

This is not what the bible teaches you really don't know the Bible

The holy spirit comes to make us holy not you to be holy before he now comes

God please open this man's eyes to understand that you came for sinners those who are deep in sin to save them

God is not interested in those who have self Righteousness

awitness41:



2 Peter 1:10

What does 2 Peter 1:10 mean?

Earlier, Peter has warned believers that living without the Christlike qualities listed in verse 5 through 7 makes us ineffective and unproductive in our knowledge of Jesus. Such people have become like spiritually blind unbelievers, forgetting they have been forgiven from their sin. Peter now urges his Christian readers to demonstrate the reality of their calling and election.

It's important to understand what Peter is not saying here. In no sense is Peter indicating that eternal salvation is based on behavior. Along with the rest of the New Testament authors, Peter has already been very clear that forgiveness of sin is a gift of grace. We cannot earn it, nor can we lose it through our sins, once we have obtained it. We do not have to meet a certain level of holiness in order to keep our eternal destiny.

What Peter does seem to be saying is far more practical. That is, his point relates to how we actually live and behave. In particular, that saved Christians confirm their salvation, for themselves and other people, by possessing these qualities of Jesus. This does not work in reverse: it is not a hard test for salvation. Nor does it imply that salvation is earned by exhibiting these traits.

Rather, the point seems to be that only those who have been chosen by God and called to faith in Christ can truly possess and "abound" in these qualities. Therefore, those who exhibit them have every good confidence in their relationship with Christ. Those who don't will, at the very least, lack that confidence. If you live as only God's children in Christ are empowered to live, Peter says, you won't have reason to doubt or stumble over your faith. Again, his use of the word "fall" is not about a loss of salvation. In context, this is about a season of wasted time, of unproductiveness and ineffectiveness, of near-blindness and indulging in sin we should have left behind.

Peter is speaking most clearly to those of us who seem to avoid commitment to Christlike living, while still claiming their place in God's family because this one's have understood that once saved is forever saved thereby knowing this truth has made some to avoid real commitment of developing commitments to Christ

. This is unproductive at best, and dangerous at worst it dangerous but it does not mean they will be un saved by God no
Instead, Peter tells the reader to be diligent to demonstrate spiritually mature qualities, as confidence-boosters and evidence of their security in Christ.

In summary, to make one’s calling and election sure is to live out the Christian life in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is to do more than simply pay lip service to Christ. Those who profess salvation but never grow in their walk with God will suffer a lack of assurance, always wondering if they are really saved or not. Those who grow ever more like Christ will be “sure” of their calling and election. They will know they have eternal life (see 1 John 5:13); they will be living testimonies of the power of God to change lives.