PaulOtl:
@MumEmdy
Ok for instance, let's use this old thread as a case study on the predestination things we were earlier on chatting about.
Shey, on the surface level you would think that Judas was betraying Jesus just for the money?
But this topic has brought another angle to it- What if all he was doing was fulfilling prophecy? God's words will never return to him void. Shey someone had to get the job done? To take the fall? Then can we say that it's was predetermined? Predestined for a man (most likely a man that woman) to be used to fulfill that part of betraying Jesus? Was Judas predestined or it could have been any other man at the time? Hmmmm...it begs for pondering. Interesting isn't it? Hehe..I'm smiling here just putting it all into perspective.

Now my thoughts, and based in the little wisdom (I think) I have is that, God has preseen all these events even in heaven before they were acted out on earth. He has seen the end from the end. He has searched the heart of men and seen who is most suitable of a certain role to play. Who is wicked, who is very kind at heart, and who is brave, etc.....God found them all as they were developing, growing. You know he is everlasting nau.
So he saw that Judas will be born as a child, grew up, somehow by chance and time get to meet Jesus. God saw that his heart worshipped money more than anything else. Did God cause him to love money that much? No. God is not wicked. But God allowed it to be out of freewill. So, he kept Judas alive all through the years as he sojourned through life, God didn't let him die in an accident or via murder. He was allowed to live till the appointment period (where he will meet and betray Christ) He was not the only candidate for the position of the greatest betrayer in history, but maybe through God's wisdom, He saw that this Judas of a man is the best amongst all the potential betrayers. His own heart is far gone away from me (from God) and God has seen that he will by time and chance get to cross paths with Jesus and his other disciples. Thus, he allowed him to lead his own self down the road to destruction. And off Judas went, going to his destruction without really knowing he would overly regret it.
Predestination I believe is a real phenomenon. But there's always twist and turns to it, but not in all cases.
Like Pharoe of Egypt had to play that part in the Exodus of he Israelites from Egypt, abi? If you read through, you will ever see where God said that 'i made his heart more hardened towards the Israelites, that he wouldn't allow the go". This should tell us something, right??
So, he had been preselected for this role and though he was king and occupied an enviable rank, he was te most unfortunate of them. His heart was evil and God allowed him to ascend to become king in order to make an example out of him...To ridicule him, and finally destroy him(the sea swallowed him and his chariots, bla bla..)
I hope you got something out of this my enumerations o? There's a lot of wisdom that we need to discover, and it's through God we can get them...I want to know more mysteries and why tis and that is allowed to happen...Gonna be an interesting journey as I grow up older. It helps to even pass time too...lol
Plus you feel you're being carried along wit what God is trying to achieve, is achieving and is teaching is through these life occurrences that we sometimes don't understand......yet.

Sigh..! I don talk wella..but I'm glad I did . I even learned something myself, whilst at it. U see..

If Judas’ heart loved money so much, why is it not on record in the Bible of his other exploits as regarding money or do you think there were no other opportunities before that of Jesus or maybe they were not recorded. Besides Jesus picked Judas to be among his disciples, take it or leave it Judas only played a role he was destined and made to play by God.

You have offend me,here is my son kill him and I will forgive you.

FamilyAdviser:
It was destined that Jesus Christ will come and save the world, one of the stringent policy attached to his coming was his death which he accepted wholeheartedly when every other Angels declined.

What did the angels decline?

Same as Osinbajo didn't betray Tunibu but trying to save him and Nigeria from disasters.

Why did Jesus not save him before then, counsel him since he has seen that he will betray him

slimjohn2k5:
The prophecy had to be fulfilled by someone with such nature.

Yes he betrayed Jesus.

Dtruthspeaker:


Crime section already proves you like lying to yourself, for we see that every criminal planned on committing the crime, long before he commits the crime exactly as written, "the heart of men seeketh evil continually".

So, no God in here. Just Judas, evil and Satan.

It is quite obvious that you are saying God is good but God himself said in Isaiah that he created evil and good and that he does evil and good. You don't know as much as you would like to believe that you know. Take out time and read the Bible.

Rhado:

If Judas’ heart loved money so much, why is it not on record in the Bible of his other exploits as regarding money or do you think there were no other opportunities before that of Jesus or maybe they were not recorded. Besides Jesus picked Judas to be among his disciples, take it or leave it Judas only played a role he was destined and made to play by God.

Oga,we are saying the same thing, albeit, in a slightly different way nau.
If Judas wasn't kept alive and chance didn't lead him to crossing paths with Jesus, then will he have been picked as a disciple? So that's what I outlined too. The lady I tagged knows what I was talking about- we had a chat about predestination.
Now I hope you get my message.

Both...
All things work together for good...

FamilyAdviser:
It was destined that Jesus Christ will come and save the world, one of the stringent policy attached to his coming was his death which he accepted wholeheartedly when every other Angels declined.

We all know the story of how Judas Iscariot Betrayed Jesus:
For instance in Luke 22:4-6

4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money.(G) 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.

In Matthew 27:3-5, Judas tells the chief priests and elders, "'I have sinned,' he said, 'for I have betrayed innocent blood. ... ' So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


Did Judas Iscariot Betrayed Jesus or help him Fulfill the Scripture??

Another tales by Moonlight..

ShaqFu:
He did both. That was his purpose and calling so instead of us to castigate him and label him the sinner or betrayer, we should cekerlbrate him because, if he had not betrayed Jesus, we won't be celebrating Easter.

Cheers to all the Judas out there. Lol.

Let assumed someone has interner illness that people are not aware of. Accidentally, you hit the person with a stick and he died in the process, who will police arrest? Who will they say that killed the person?

PaulOtl:

Oga,we are saying the same thing, albeit, in a slightly different way nau.
If Judas wasn't kept alive and chance didn't lead him to crossing paths with Jesus, then will he have been picked as a disciple? So that's what I outlined too. The lady I tagged knows what I was talking about- we had a chat about predestination.
Now I hope you get my message.

Maybe I do but he’s heart did not love money so much.

What about Judas Osinbajo

drnoel:


Helped him fulfill the scriptures actually. The betrayal was meant to be. The problem was he should have begged for redemption and not commit sucide. That action dammed his soul

d prophesy also predicted his end ...not sure he will repent anyway

yuzjet:
Judas and Satan's side of the story weren't told.

Judas actually told his but the early church leaders threw it out.

slimjohn2k5:
The prophecy had to be fulfilled by someone with such nature.

Yes he betrayed Jesus.

I disagree you with..
The prophecy had to be fulfilled that means Jesus knows that he was to be betrayed he could have stopped it but he choose not to and Judas was preordain to betray him..to me Judas was use as a scapegoat he should be celebrated as a hero..Its not about the love of money,wen the Lord once to use someone u can't escape,take the case of jonah he refuse and he was purnish

Odidigboigbo:
Let assumed someone has interner illness that people are not aware of. Accidentally, you hit the person with a stick and he died in the process, who will police arrest? Who will they say that killed the person?

What do you mean, if the person was sick, is there any evidence even if the sickness was terminal was going to kill such person at that moment you hit him with stick. Of course na you kill the person.

Roycemadeit:


It is quite obvious that you are saying God is good but God himself said in Isaiah that he created evil and good and that he does evil and good. You don't know as much as you would like to believe that you know. Take out your time and read the Bible.

The mere fact battery makers make acid, potter's make fire, does this make these things evil?

No! Not in their hands.

So also All things in the Hands of God are Good.

It is the unlawful use of good, like acid for the pouring on your children or the fire for the burning of your house, which makes it evil.

The unlawful use of evil, is evil, exactly like the car used for murdering people via overspeeding, is unlawful use of the car.

So, God is Good! But who is he that maketh you to do what you might otherwise not have done in line with Law?

Jokerman:
Judas made himself an object of Satan's deceit.

We must ask this question, why Judas?? Why not Peter or John or Bartholomew?

Don't give chance to Satan, so you won't be used....

Jesus admonished us to watch and pray, and Paul and Peter corroborated by asking us to wear the full armour of christ and flee from every appearance of evil.

God will help us

Quick question sir, God knows how Judas will turn out in life when he give rise to his creation right since he(God) knowers all things right? He knows Judas will be greedy and likes money immediately he allowed him into this earth since he knoweth all right? So why will anyone blame Judas for allowing the devil to use him when he’s merely fulfilling one of his many purpose on earth?

Betray nah betray

Dtruthspeaker:


Who can not prophecy that a person who drives at the average speed of 180kph from Abuja to Lagos, will have an accident?

And it is the driver who is blamed for overspeeding and wreck-full driving.

A prophecy tells what shall happen in the future.

So, Judas was very stupid full to allow himself to be used by Satan (same thing he did to Eve, in using her to destroy the man Adam) to betray The Lord, Th6 Lord Himself. E no Fear even after seeing all the The Lord hath done and Said!

How was he used when it was already predetermined?

Peter that denied Chris thrice, will you call him a sinner too? Remember Jesus told them that one of them will betray him thrice so, it was always going to happen regardless...

drnoel:


Helped him fulfill the scriptures actually. The betrayal was meant to be. The problem was he should have begged for redemption and not commit sucide. That action dammed his soul

How can he begged for redemption when everything was designed to be the way it turned out to be? God knows all of this from the day he allowed Judas passage and entrance into this world so why would he be condemned?

Judas wasn't predestined to betray Christ hence any of the disciples could have done it,

Again Judas was always covetous hence JESUS MADE HIM THE TREASURER OF THE DISCIPLES


CHRISTIANS MAKE WE TRY TO THE READ BIBLE SMALL,

Jesus was not killed and was not crucified, but was raised by Allah

Uprightness100:
It was not his destiny. He Personally choose to make the action.

Prophecies had gone forth that one of you will betray me. Prophecies didn't say Judas will betray me. Judas choose to allow the devil enter him and was fully responsible for his action.

So Judas betrayed JESUS.

In the same vain, Endtimes Prophecies have long been written befor us. Prophecies have been written that many will fall and be Casualties of the Endtimes. But it behoves on you and me as individuals to ensure we stand with JESUS Christ, in good or bad, so as not to be the one to be Casualties of the Endtimes.

Going by your logic then Jesus wasn’t meant to die for the sake of mind since in his teachings he never for once said I will die for y’all and the third day I will rise from the dead and ascend into heaven rather he said “The son of man will die and on the third day he will rose from the dead and ascend into heaven”

Rhado:


Maybe I do but he’s heart did not love money so much.

Oh... alright Sir. Well, like you said, the Bible didn't record his other exploits or anything for us to really tell. They say the Bible only recorded the things that God felt was needed for us to know....I don't know , but that's what I was told somewhere, sometime.
Or we could say that he loved money the most out of the 12 disciples? Didn't have the self-control and that's why he regretted afterwards out of guilt (if he loves money so much the he won't need to feel remorseful after and go to hang himself) so I guess it might not have been deep love for money (like you've made me to see) but just a lack of will to not give into the temptation that arose then. Either predestined or towards the latter time, the spirit of mamon just picked him to play that part, seeing that he was the most prone to compromise. Don't forget that Jesus was already sounding them an indirect warning that " one of you will betray me " Yet he still went ahead. There is predestination in life, but Judas own seems to be last minute decision. IMO.

FamilyAdviser:
It was destined that Jesus Christ will come and save the world, one of the stringent policy attached to his coming was his death which he accepted wholeheartedly when every other Angels declined.

We all know the story of how Judas Iscariot Betrayed Jesus:
For instance in Luke 22:4-6

4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money.(G) 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.

In Matthew 27:3-5, Judas tells the chief priests and elders, "'I have sinned,' he said, 'for I have betrayed innocent blood. ... ' So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


Did Judas Iscariot Betrayed Jesus or help him Fulfill the Scripture??

Fake biblical stories.
Mathew 12 vs 20, For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man "jesus" will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
According to this verse jesus was to spend three days and three nights on his grave. jesus was killed on Friday, the first night is Friday, second night is Saturday, and third night is Sunday and jesus was suppose to rise on Monday morning according to biblical verse mentioned above. But here you guys celebrating Sunday as the day jesus rose from death instead of Monday the bible mentioned.

If what Judas did wasn't bad, he wouldn't have committed suicide. Period!

DEV4REAL:
He was the accountant holding the money bag and had being stealing from it, he betrayed his master for money becos he knew Jesus had power to save himself but to his surprise Jesus never did but let himself be killed that was when judas realized he had committed sin he returned d money and hanged himself. Don't be greedy in life and lost for material wealth if not u will end up like judas iscariot

Was God not aware of all this when he was allowing him passage and entrance into this earth? Was God not aware of the kinda life Judas will be living and leading? Was God not aware it would be the same Judas that will betray Jesus his son Sosa the prophecy would be fulfilled?

patrickmuf:
How was he used when it was already predetermined?

Peter that denied Chris thrice, will you call him a sinner too? Remember Jesus told them that one of them will betray him thrice so, it was always going to happen regardless...

That is why I said "Who can not prophecy that a person who drives at the average speed of 180kph from Abuja to Lagos, will have an accident?"

Even you too play the game of pre-determination. You have once said, "make nobody give Wilson moto, hin go scatter am"

You have predetermined Wilson's future, same for Tinunu!

I believe he betrayed Jesus to fulfill the scripture.

There has been prophesy of the coming, the purpose and the death of Jesus.
It was already said they the son of man would be betrayed but woe into him whom the son of man was betrayed. It is better that he was not born.
Looking further, Judas was a treasurer and Bible recorded that he did steal from general purse. This means that he was greedy hence find it simple to fall for the temptation of bribery and betrayal. Don't forget, there's also curse already and this was manifested in the end story of Judas.

Dtruthspeaker:


Who can not prophecy that a person who drives at the average speed of 180kph from Abuja to Lagos, will have an accident?

And it is the driver who is blamed for overspeeding and wreck-full driving.

A prophecy tells what shall happen in the future.

So, Judas was very stupid full to allow himself to be used by Satan (same thing he did to Eve, in using her to destroy the man Adam) to betray The Lord, Th6 Lord Himself. E no Fear even after seeing all the The Lord hath done and Said!

ki nin WI?