There is no "Lagos issue."


Lagos is a city in Nigeria which happens to be in the SW (Yoruba) political zone and has a very Yoruba pre-colonial history and is consequently a Yoruba city.

The only issue here is that there are some people who want to eat their cake and have it too.

If you tell them the city was founded by Benin they say, no it is actually an Awori city.

This seems like a little bit of sleight of hand. It seems little different from saying that Warri is really an Ijaw and Urhobo city and the Itsekiris have no claim to it as they are really a mix of people from Yoruba (Ijebu?) and Edo areas who are not actually from that area, who came in and set up a city-state in a place where there were already some groups existing. Consequently, one can claim that the Itsekiris are really a foreign element to Warri!!  

This is putting things upside down, of course.

If no Itsekiris, then no Warri. It might suck for those in Delta state who might want to imagine that their villages would be important or relevant enough to make their region have a commercial center without that group (Itsekiri), but sometimes reality sucks.

This brings up a question that is actually relevant to Lagos.

The main reason Lagos is important today is because of the emphasis the British put on developing it, going all the way back to the 1850s and then later when it became a capital. Now if one likes Lagos so much, (or doesn't necessarily like it, but thinks it's commercially important) which group is owed more in terms of making Lagos important/relevant enough for the British to even bother about developing it - the Aworis, who were always there, or Benin, which probably started something there?

It could be argued either way, but I don't think it's so clear cut that it's just the Aworis alone.


And if, out of respect for Yoruba tradition and the traditional histories of the actual indigenes of Lagos (the Aworis), one agrees completely with the numerous Yoruba historians and writers who say that it was originally Awori land, and therefore the Yoruba have primacy, but were invaded by Benin, all sorts of characters log on to nairaland to respond that you're claiming that "Benin conquered Yorubaland" and other crap that you didn't actually say. They then accuse you of "Binicentric" history, or claiming "ownership" of Lagos!

This is what I mean by having your cake and eating it too.

Some people want to claim that Awori Yorubas founded Lagos (although I'm not sure that I see how just being there, is equivalent to founding it), but were invaded by another group. Okay.

But if you agree with this first set of people, some other people cry foul at a claim that they were invaded. That's completely understandable.

So you say, okay. There was no invasion. It was simply founded by Benin.

But if you say this, then some second set of people cries foul, claiming that Benin did not found it and does not have "primacy" there because there were Awori farmers and fishermen there.

So there was no invasion, and there was no founding by Benin? Okay. It doesn't even matter for the present, anyway, since it's yet another Yoruba city today anyway and anybody who might have been of ancient Edo descent is a Yoruba today.

But I don't think that the relationship between Benin and Lagos should be dismissed so casually.

At least one Yoruba writer records other traditions:

http://cefolassaocoed.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=74&showall=1


There is also that question of whether the "Eleko of Eko" or "Eleko" (Olu Eko) really means the ruler/lord of the farm. If Eko is indeed "farm," and the city was named "farm" I would be somewhat interested in hearing why the Oba of Lagos's title makes reference to his lordship over a farm. I understand the the Alaafin is owner of the palace (afin). The Olu Eko/Eleko thing isn't so clear to me, however.

I think paramount lord of a war camp makes a little more sense than lord of a farm. . .but hey, what do I know?  I'm definitely not a Lagosian.

Also, for true experts of the history of Lagos, is it true that Olojo Kosoko (the second son of Oba Kosoko) sought refuge in Benin when his father lost out to Oba Akintoye? I actually just want to know if this is true or not, without reference to the "debate" or "issue" of "ownership" of Lagos. It's an interesting story in and of itself and I wanted to know, whether, like the Ogedengbe & Benin story, some of the details are just folktales, or whether the story is actually true. Thanks.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your position in that post isn't clear.

Benin has no claim over Lagos just as the British have no claim over Nigeria. British influence in Nigeria (which is more recent than Bini in Lagos) has certainly eroded in the last 50 years.

Similarly, British Monarchy descended from France, does France have a claim over England? Like you stated with regards to Bini descendants in Lagos, the French descendants of William the conqueror are now so English that many of them don't have any French culture or speak the French language.


Another example, Rome had camps in England, does Rome have claim over England? Bini itself was occupied by the British.
Lagos belongs to the indigenes of Lagos. End of story.

Katsumoto:

You this Bini boy, you no dey gree.  

What I find really curious is that the Bini do not have any records of this event, even though it is very recent while the Bini have records of other events from several centuries ago. Bini have records of settling in Lagos from the 16th Century but no records of an encounter with Ogedengbe Agbogungboro in the late 19th century?  Could it be that they didn't really want to record that event?

Anyway, I agree that there isn't conclusive evidence to support either position.

Katsumoto

The real reason I don't agree is because of what I have read in multiple sources about the Oba of Benin that was reigning at the time that Ogedengbe invaded the outskirts of the Benin kingdom. That Oba (Oba Adolo) was militant. He hounded his brother (a rival claimant to the throne) in Esan land, and fought him for decades (there is a specific written quote from an explorer which confirms this dispute as recorded in Benin tradition by Egharevba and others, but I am having trouble locating it. In the quote, the explorer refers to Esan land as "Ison" or "Isan".


Concerning the Benins not having records of it, that doesn't seem to be true. At least, Egharevba seemed to have been informed of it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=egharevba%20ogedengbe&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wp

He mentions Ebohon's move to check Ogedengbe's advance in (at least) two books:

Jacob U. Egharevba - Concise lives of the famous Iyases of Benin (1946)

http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=_1J0AAAAMAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor

Jacob U. Egharevba - A short history of Benin (1968 - 4th edition)

http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=FukJAQAAIAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor



So I think the account of Ebohon of Ova making Ogedengbe abide by his demand that he leave Benin land was already known decades ago. I don't know how the story developed that the Oba gave Ogedengbe gifts as appeasement, but it doesn't really sound that probable, considering that Oba Adolo had militaristic tendencies.

Also, for true experts of the history of Lagos, is it true that Olojo Kosoko (the second son of Oba Kosoko) sought refuge in Benin when his father lost out to Oba Akintoye? I actually just want to know if this is true or not, without reference to the "debate" or "issue" of "ownership" of Lagos. It's an interesting story in and of itself and I wanted to know, whether, like the Ogedengbe & Benin story, some of the details are just folktales, or whether the story is actually true. Thanks.

kosoko was in exile in whydah [ouidah].


please lets stop all this revisionist history, thanks.

none of it changes actual events and much of it is directed at potential mugus who are seeking a non-existent el dorado.

Katsumoto:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your position in that post isn't clear.

Benin has no claim over Lagos just as the British have no claim over Nigeria. British influence in Nigeria (which is more recent than Bini in Lagos) has certainly eroded in the last 50 years.

Similarly, British Monarchy descended from France, does France have a claim over England? Like you stated with regards to Bini descendants in Lagos, the French descendants of William the conqueror are now so English that many of them don't have any French culture or speak the French language.


Another example, Rome had camps in England, does Rome have claim over England? Bini itself was occupied by the British.
Lagos belongs to the indigenes of Lagos. End of story.

My position was pretty clear. Lagos is a Yoruba city, as I said in the very second line of my post. But, the claim that bringing up the Benin-Lagos connection amounts to claiming "conquest of Yorubaland" or claiming "Benin ownership of Lagos" is faulty. Those who have attempted to explain what "eko" means according to stories that they were told were accused of chauvinism if they didn't agree with the position that it refers to a farm. It could very well refer to the farms of the Awori, but if it does, then if someone claims that there was an invasion (as some Yoruba historians also claim), then there shouldn't be too much of an objection. My point was that some people want to have it both ways: there was no Benin founding and there was no Benin invasion. That's perfectly alright. There are other ways that influence can spread. However, since most Yoruba historians have already opted for one of these choices (the invasion), people should not be accused of chauvinism for their own group and against Yorubas if they agree with this position.

tpia@:

kosoko was in exile in whydah [ouidah].


please lets stop all this revisionist history, thanks.

none of it changes actual events and much of it is directed at potential mugus who are seeking a non-existent el dorado.

Thanks for the information but my question was not at all about Oba Kosoko, but actually about Prince Olojo.

If the Olojo story is false, I would say that it's more like "beer parlor history" than anything.

I have already heard the Benin account of it, and I initially dismissed it as I do when I read that Benin "conquered Dahomey under the Esan general Isidahome" claim, but on second thought, I realized that I wanted to hear from those who REALLY know about the history of the Lagos monarchy about what happened to Prince Olojo when his father lost out in the power struggle.

Who cares about Lagos being Benin or Yoruba land. As long as we are[b] ONE[/b]!!! Yorubas and Edos should leave these petty fights!!! The Yorubas and Benins have a LONG history together and thus, are NATURAL ALLIES to eachother. I am an Itsekiri man and I see Yorubas, Edos, Uhrobos as my BLOOD BROTHERS (culturally and linguistically). Yorubas and Benins should have mutual respect [/b]for eachother (since they were separate but powerful [b]INDEPENDENT Kingdoms) but yet come together to be a STRONGER FORCE!!!

jason123:

Who cares about Lagos being Benin or Yoruba land. As long as we are[b] ONE[/b]!!! Yorubas and Edos should leave these petty fights!!! The Yorubas and Benins have a LONG history together and thus, are NATURAL ALLIES to eachother. I am an Itsekiri man and I see Yorubas, Edos, Uhrobos as my BLOOD BROTHERS (culturally and linguistically). Yorubas and Benins should have mutual respect [/b]for eachother (since they were separate but powerful [b]INDEPENDENT Kingdoms) but yet come together to be a STRONGER FORCE!!!

There is a lot of wrong assumptions in that post. Edo and Yoruba have no issues.

PhysicsQED:


Thanks for the information but my question was not at all about Oba Kosoko, but actually about Prince Olojo.

If the Olojo story is false, I would say that it's more like "beer parlor history" than anything.

I have already heard the Benin account of it, and I initially dismissed it as I do when I read that Benin "conquered Dahomey under the Esan general Isidahome" claim, but on second thought, I realized that I wanted to hear from those who REALLY know about the history of the Lagos monarchy about what happened to Prince Olojo when his father lost out in the power struggle.

kosoko had about 35 children.

in what way is this olojo more important than the other ones, some of who could have also headed to the north or elsewhere in nigeria.

besides, at that time the bights of biafra and benin were administered from fernando po and there was constant insecurity in the lagos region due to the war between abeokuta and dahomey.

in addition, three of kosoko's sons were in bahia, brazil.

@All

There is no way the Benin Conquest of Lagos at a certain point in Nigerian History can be dismissed. Benin influenced Lagos in a lot of ways. If you take your time to study Benin History deeply, you'll realize that the Benin Empire was very adventurous and had a highly disciplined Army. I don't much about the Ogedengbe Assault on Benin but I know that Benin was not conquered by any Nigerian City State or Tribe. The Bini people built a moat around the capital that virtually deterred their enemies from waging war on them. It was the British Army that finally subdued the Benin Kingdom ( By Artillery Bombardment ) during the reign of Oba Ovenramwen Nogbaisi. As for the Aworis of Lagos, it appears they were not a strong people Militarily for them to be assaulted by the Ijebus, the Egbas and Dahomey. People have said the Aworis were farmers. Where were their farming lands, if Lagos had so many lagoons and lakes? It should be noted that the original Lagos did not include places like Epe, Ikorodu, Ketu, Ifako etc ( Primarily settlements founded by Ijebu or Oyo people ). It appears some people are failing to reason despite the glaring evidence before them. Yeah, Lagos is a Yoruba City but it was a vassal state of the Benin Kingdom at a certain period. Cheers.

Katsumoto:

There is a lot of wrong assumptions in that post. Edo and Yoruba have no issues.

Thanks for the reassurance.

These lagos threads are always pretty fun to read.

Yeah jason123, I've never heard of any sort of beef between Yoruba and Bini people before. Aside from the fact that we seem to be extremely popular with their women

L-LOVE A-ALL G-GIRLS O-ON S-SUNDAY.

This has been interesting and educating. Tanx y'all.

According to wikipedia, Lagos (Portuguese pronunciation: [ˈlaɣuʃ], literally  means"Lakes", from the Latin "Laccobriga" It is a city in Nigeria and also a town and a municipality at the mouth of Bensafrim River along the Atlantic Ocean, in the region of the Algarve, in Algarve's Barlavento (windward), Southern Portugal.[1]. The later like the Nigeria Lagos is a historic (Portuguese Discoveries) and touristic city, full of beaches.The majority of the population lives along the coastal line and works in tourism and services.  The Nigeria Lagos and the counterpart in Portugal share a number of similarities which may have informed the portuguese who first discovered Lagos to so name it.  Lagos remains the most visited city in Nigeria like it's counterpart which is one of the most visited cities in the Algarve and Portugal, due to its big variety of beaches, bars, restaurants, and hotels. It is also renowned for its vibrant nightlife and parties.

While the Nigerian Lagos was the point of exit, at a point for West Africa slaves, it,s look-like in Portugalt the first point of entrance for African slaves in the post-medieval Europe. Just as we have Lagos marina in Nigeria, so is in Portugal.The Lagos also have plenty of cultural and night-life entertainment venues. Many local traditions are celebrated, ranging from architecture to gastronomy and handicrafts. Both have many natural interest sites.
As for the name Eko means war camp in Benin. It is worthy of note that part of  the present day Ibo, Yoruba including Lagos and Kogi State were  conquered by the Benin empire while the Oyo empire struglle to retain it,s area as well as the Ijebus,

This thread was hijacked by d numerous owl-eyed homunculus' on nland. At d end of d day, most of us leave d thread more confused dan wen we entered.

redman; stop been silly and tribalistic, i love and study history, against all odd the benin played a role in history of Lagos but the foundation are the Aworis, badagry ( Egun), ijebus but interms of the Oba and chief dress, they are borrowed culture from Benin, even the Eyo of today is originally from the ijebus but branded it including change of clothes and all that. but the amazing thing about lagos is they are all settlers because its a farm land

excellent7 you be a professor of history.

This Lagos issue again?

Lagos is a Yoruba land,

Please stop making reference to Oba as a Benin connection really,  " Oba of Benin" is English and Oba means king in Yoruba land,

Oba okunade Sijuade,

Oba etc,

Oba of Oyo (Alaafin of Oyo), Oba of ife (Ooni of ife), What is the title of the Oba of Benin again?

Now, Benin was present in Lagos but so were they in Ondo, Ekiti and Oyo. The influence they had in Yoruba land is equal to that which Yoruba had in their land,

Benin's influence in Lagos is same as Benin's influence in a few other Yoruba settlements.

So no need to revise history to get primacy in Lagos. It's a Yoruba land, run and ruled by the Yorubas from all over Yoruba land.

But my question remains, why Lagos? Yorubas settled along the coast as you can see them in Togo, Ghana, Benin all along the coasts,  It shouldn't be a thing of doubt that Lagos is Yoruba land.

But Benin had influence; though not anymore, they did once,  It doesn't mean Benin people are coming to claim Lagos from the Yoruba natives.

It just means the Bini people had a hand in pre colonial Lagos. It doesn't mean they controlled Lagos or conquered the land,  No fuss so chill!!!

Welcome to Yoruba land our Bini brothers,  Stop revising history.  I will welcome Bini people anyday than the "Lagos is a no man's land" nut jobs trooping in by the thousands monthly.

There are Bini guys in Akure more than there are in Lagos and Benin had influences in Akure than they did in Lagos why aren't they claiming they "found" Akure? It's just Lagos, because of it's beauty!!

PhysicsQED:


Katsumoto

The real reason I don't agree is because of what I have read in multiple sources about the Oba of Benin that was reigning at the time that Ogedengbe invaded the outskirts of the Benin kingdom. That Oba (Oba Adolo) was militant. He hounded his brother (a rival claimant to the throne) in Esan land, and fought him for decades (there is a specific written quote from an explorer which confirms this dispute as recorded in Benin tradition by Egharevba and others, but I am having trouble locating it. In the quote, the explorer refers to Esan land as "Ison" or "Isan".


Concerning the Benins not having records of it, that doesn't seem to be true. At least, Egharevba seemed to have been informed of it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=egharevba%20ogedengbe&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wp

He mentions Ebohon's move to check Ogedengbe's advance in (at least) two books:

Jacob U. Egharevba - Concise lives of the famous Iyases of Benin (1946)

http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=_1J0AAAAMAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor

Jacob U. Egharevba - A short history of Benin (1968 - 4th edition)

http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=FukJAQAAIAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor



So I think the account of Ebohon of Ova making Ogedengbe abide by his demand that he leave Benin land was already known decades ago. I don't know how the story developed that the Oba gave Ogedengbe gifts as appeasement, but it doesn't really sound that probable, considering that Oba Adolo had militaristic tendencies.

PhysicsABC>>>XYZ

I have since found out that General Ebohon bribed asked Ogedengbe Agbogungboro to leave Bini with several hampers and gift baskets.

I will share with you another time.

@ Olumide



What is the Benin word for king? Do you think it's not "Oba"? If there is some other word, please let us know.

Nobody is revising history anywhere. All that was asked was what "eko" meant, and some people went haywire when some other people tried to explain it to them. If you want to believe that some Awori farms would have made a city that had relevance to "Yorubas from all over Yoruba land" without any Benin involvement, you're welcome to your beliefs, but don't get all worked up when others disagree with such a shaky hypothesis.



@ Katsumoto

I would appreciate it if you could expound on these alleged "bribes" and "gifts."

Ebohon of Ova held his rank for a reason, and the same Oba Adolo even later used him (Ebohon) to put a very bloody end to an uprising in the Esan area.

In fact, come to think of it, the Esan alone could have defeated Ogedengbe, not to talk of Benin. The whole idea of Ogedengbe as some sort of threat to Benin seems like manufactured folktales to me. Think about Asoro who held the British at bay, and the Ologbosere who attacked them without hesitation, and you'll understand that there was no flinching from battle on the part of Benin.

The Nupes raided Northern Edo state, and they were defeated in battle by the Esan, and that's why their raids never got any further than Edo north. If you've ever read Clapperton's journal, where he describes a Nupe battle, you'll understand that the Nupes were a more formidable force than Ogedengbe's army.

Also read up on how the Esan fought the British and you'll have a more realistic perspective.

Ogedengbe could not even have been ruffled the Esan (which had General Isidahomen), not to talk of being a threat to a stronger kingdom like Benin.

eko means oko, meaning farm.

pepper used to be a very valuable commodity in the middle ages and spices were almost worth their weight in gold back then.

PhysicsQED:

@ Katsumoto

I would appreciate it if you could expound on these alleged "bribes" and "gifts."

Ebohon of Ova held his rank for a reason, and the same Oba Adolo even later used him (Ebohon) to put a very bloody end to an uprising in the Esan area.

In fact, come to think of it, the Esan alone could have defeated Ogedengbe, not to talk of Benin. The whole idea of Ogedengbe as some sort of threat to Benin seems like manufactured folktales to me. Think about Asoro who held the British at bay, and the Ologbosere who attacked them without hesitation, and you'll understand that there was no flinching from battle on the part of Benin.

The Nupes raided Northern Edo state, and they were defeated in battle by the Esan, and that's why their raids never got any further than Edo north. If you've ever read Clapperton's journal, where he describes a Nupe battle, you'll understand that the Nupes were a more formidable force than Ogedengbe's army.

Also read up on how the Esan fought the British and you'll have a more realistic perspective.

Ogedengbe could not even have been ruffled the Esan (which had General Isidahomen), not to talk of being a threat to a stronger kingdom like Benin.

Dude,

You couldn't tell I was messing with you?    

BTW, stop that conjecturing about the Nupes being more formidable that Ogedengbe's Army. Fact is that Ogedengbe did not battle the Nupes so we can't say who was stronger on that basis. But if we are to conduct simple analysis; Ogedengbe battled Ibadan to a standstill in the Kiriji wars, the same Ibadan that defeated the Fulanis. Or do you want to argue that the Nupes with their small kingdom were more powerful than the Caliphate?

Secondly, we know that Ogedengbe moved his Army towards Benin. Do you think Ogedengbe was drunk when he made that move? It might have been a gamble but it was a gamble he felt could pay off. If Benin did not feel that Ogedengbe posed considerable threat, then MILITANT Benin would have crushed him just for the insult of threatening Benin. Or what other reason can you put forward for Benin's inaction?

PhysicsQED:

@ Olumide



What is the Benin word for king? Do you think it's not "Oba"? If there is some other word, please let us know.

Nobody is revising history anywhere. All that was asked was what "eko" meant, and some people went haywire when some other people tried to explain it to them. If you want to believe that some Awori farms would have made a city that had relevance to "Yorubas from all over Yoruba land" without any Benin involvement, you're welcome to your beliefs, but don't get all worked up when others disagree with such a shaky hypothesis.

Lol but the kings in ancient Igodomigodo weren't called Oba, Oba is not a Benin word,

the proof is there in the story of your prince's son who he sent back, He made himself Oba not Ogiso because he speaks Yoruba and not Bini,

Ogiso was the name you guys call your kings, It was the Yoruba raised Bini man who changed it to Oba,

Either you don't know, or you are lying in denial,

0lumide:

Lol but the kings in ancient Igodomigodo weren't called Oba,  Oba is not a Benin word, 

the proof is there in the story of your prince's son who he sent back,  He made himself Oba not Ogiso because he speaks Yoruba and not Bini,

Ogiso was the name you guys call your kings,  It was the Yoruba raised Bini man who changed it to Oba, 

Either you don't know, or you are lying in denial,

Ogiso does not mean "king." It is a specific title meaning ruler from the sky (or lord of the sky). It doesn't mean king anymore than Olurin means king of the Ijebu.  I don't see how referring to a king by his title means that the title itself is the word for king.

The title of the unsuccessful first dynasty was dropped. If the prince's son was following Yoruba conventions with regard to kings, why didn't he take one of those much talked about "unique" titles that Yoruba kings have? Why only Oba?

Deji, Awujale, Alaafin, Ooni, Owa Obokun, etc., but he only takes "Oba" when he should have taken a Yoruba title as a Yoruba king? I don't really see it.

Katsumoto:

Dude,

You couldn't tell I was messing with you?    

BTW, stop that conjecturing about the Nupes being more formidable that Ogedengbe's Army. Fact is that Ogedengbe did not battle the Nupes so we can't say who was stronger on that basis. But if we are to conduct simple analysis; Ogedengbe battled Ibadan to a standstill in the Kiriji wars, the same Ibadan that defeated the Fulanis. Or do you want to argue that the Nupes with their small kingdom were more powerful than the Caliphate?

Secondly, we know that Ogedengbe moved his Army towards Benin. Do you think Ogedengbe was drunk when he made that move? It might have been a gamble but it was a gamble he felt could pay off. If Benin did not feel that Ogedengbe posed considerable threat, then MILITANT Benin would have crushed him just for the insult of threatening Benin. Or what other reason can you put forward for Benin's inaction?

1. It didn't actually seem like you were joking, but I see it now.

2. It's not about size. The Caliphate was utterly crushed by both Borno and Fundah in two (unrelated) important battles. I will post evidence of this in a later post.  The Nupe were not much smaller than Borno, and Borno repeatedly held off the Caliphate and even had them on the run on some occasions. The point is, this Caliphate reverence should stop because their military prowess was somewhat exaggerated. That the Nupes did not defeat the Caliphate had very little to do with the actual military capability of the Caliphate.

3. The Nupes were bested by the Caliphate in the same way that Illorin was bested by the Caliphate. The Fulanis wormed their way in as "scholars" and then used deception and division just as they did at Illorin. They never fought a unified Nupe, but instead Mallam Dendo (a Fulani) chipped away at the two rival, warring factions of Nupeland, and his sons later usurped the throne with little effort. The situation with Nupe and Mallam Dendo was very similar to that of Illorin and Alimi.

They never fought a unified Nupe, and if they had, they probably would have had to face some assistance/reinforcements from Benin, which had a shadowy kind of alliance with the Igala and the Nupe (the Igala and Nupe were historical allies). I'll post a quote with regard to this later.

4. I was actually wrong about it being the Nupes that Clapperton referred to. I just looked at the book (pdf) again and it was actually Fundah (which was even smaller than Nupe) that crushed the Fulani (and they even had Sultan Bello himself scampering for his dear life) when they tried to attack. I confused the two.

In fact, at the time that the Nupe invaded the northern Edo area, they were part of the Caliphate and their king was of Fulani descent (descended from Mallam Dendo). So they were merely an extension of the Caliphate. But they were routed when they tried to advance further into Esan land.

5. As for "crushing him" just for the "insult," that's not that likely considering that this presupposes that Benin considered it worth the effort. When you invade and sack a kingdom, there are certain rewards. When you chase down a large roving army, what particular reward do you get for all your troubles?

PhysicsQED:

Ogiso does not mean "king." It is a specific title meaning ruler from the sky. It doesn't mean king anymore than Olurin means king of the Ijebu.  I don't see how referring to a king by his title means that the title itself is the word for king.

The title of the unsuccessful first dynasty was dropped. If the prince's son was following Yoruba conventions with regard to kings, why didn't he take one of those much talked about "unique" titles that Yoruba kings have? Why only Oba?

Deji, Awujale, Alaafin, Ooni, Owa Obokun, etc., but he only takes "Oba" when he should have taken a Yoruba title as a Yoruba king? I don't really see it.

because the Bini don't understand his language and the term he used to describe himself might have died out in Bini because his son, Eweka, will probably be Bini too and not speak Yoruba,

The main thing here is the fact that the Oba dynasty only started when the Yoruba only speaking bini prince started ruling,

Hope now you know Oba is a Yoruba word, Oba dynasty only started when The prince who spoke only Yoruba because he was raised in Yoruba land started ruling,

If Oba was the word Bini people used, how come the first dynasty of Igodomigodo wasn't Oba? Ogiso was what Bini people called their ruler because they believed the ruler came from the sky, which is highly plausible considering many documentaries based on Sumerian gospel talks about visitations from people of another planet, Some Yorubas believe Oduduwa and Obatala came fromthe skies though Obatala existed looooong b4 Oduduwa, just some stooopid propaganda pitching them against each other, That is mostly done why Islamic Yorubas who like to believe Oduduwa came from mecca thereby trying to make Obatala seem less powerful Oduduwa according to them ruled over obatala,

The Caliphate and the Fulanis versus Borno:

"The custom of giving and receiving
presents is of very ancient standing in
Africa, and sanctioned by universal adoption.
Instead of acceding to the reasonable desires of
the Ruler of Bornou, the Chiefs of all the towns,
excepting the Governor of Kano, kept indeed
the horses, but followed the example of many
rude nations of antiquity, as well as that of more
modern times * and sent back the ambassadors to
their monarch, with bundles of sharp-pointed
spears, hinting by these hieroglyphics, that if the
Sheikh wanted corn, he was to come and fight
for it. The Governor of Kano, however, went
even a step beyond this, for he not only retained
the horses sent him, but bound the unsuspecting
ambassadors hand and foot, and taking them to
the market-place, the pitiless Falatah publicly
butchered them in cold blood. The consummation
of this atrocious act, to which I was myself
a spectator, elicited a universal murmur of disapprobation
from the slaves, who form by far the
major part of the inhabitants of the city ; and it
was generally feared, from their deep but not loud
execrations, that they would have risen into open
revolt, and revenged the murder of the Bornouese,
by wreaking their vengeance on the
head of the perpetrator of the abominable crime.
This effervescence of the public mind, nevertheless,
had subsided at the period of my departure
for Soccatoo, without producing any of the effects
so much dreaded by the free population of
Kano ; and the recollection of the revolting and
sanguinary action of the Governor was swallowed
up in other and more important incidents.


As soon as the news of this melancholy catastrophe
reached the ears of the Sheikh of Bornou,
who was then at Kouka, the capital of his
empire, he was so violently exasperated, that he
swore by the Prophet he would have an immediate
and ample revenge of the Falatahs for the
insult they had offered him ; and for this purpose,
instantly assembling a numerous and powerful
army, he hastened to chastise his relentless
enemies. The inhabitants of every Falatah town
opened their gates to the Sheikh till he reached
Murmur, (the place in which Dr. Oudney died
and was buried by my lamented master, in the
former journey,) where the people who refused to
follow the example set them by their countrymen
; and prepared to defend themselves to the
last extremity. The Bornouese, being unwilling
to lose so much time as the investment of the
town, in a formal manner, would inevitably occasion,
contrived to ensnare a number of vultures,
by baiting a crooked bit of iron, sharpened
at the extremity, and resembling in shape a
small sized English fish-hook, with pieces of
putrid beef. These instruments, to which a
long string was attached, were eagerly seized
by those voracious birds, which by this means
were caught with little difficulty. The soldiers
of the Sheikh had no sooner obtained as many
as they fancied would be necessary, by this
stratagem, than they tied pieces of burning
cotton to the claws or tails of the vultures, and
so set them at liberty. The affrighted birds
instantly flew into the town, and alighting on
the thatch of the dwellings, of course set them
on fire, and a general conflagration was the
almost immediate consequence.
This unlocked for calamity distracted the attention
of the besieged ; and all flew to arrest
the progress of the flames, and to snatch their
children from their burning habitations ; whilst
the Bornouese, taking advantage of the general
consternation that prevailed in the town, made
a sudden rush on the massy gates or doors,
(which are made of the bark of the date tree,
fastened and strengthened with iron clasps,) and
so desperate was the assault, that in less than a
minute's time they had entered the place, and
were engaged in their work of death and
slaughter amongst the inhabitants.
The infuriated Bornouese pursued their way
through the burning streets, amidst the crackling
huts of the people, and the general devastation
and ruin respecting neither party, but
frequently overwhelming both themselves and
their enemies in one common destruction.
The male Falatahs were marked out as peculiar
objects of the vengeance of the victorious
troops, one only escaping to tell the dismal tale
to his countrymen ; but not yet satiated with
blood, the pagan soldiers in the army of the
Sheikh captured all the unoffending females
who were running about in every direction,
with their offspring in their arms, or on their
breasts ; and, as with the Gooberites, after amputating
one of their hands, ejected them from
their town, snatched their children from their
embraces, and compelled the poor creatures to
wander without protection, and almost dead
with grief and intense suffering, to other towns
and villages, before arriving at which many
of them were released by death.
Several other Falatah towns were treated in
a similar dreadful manner by the Bornouese,
who marched hastily towards Kano ; but when
about a day's journey from that city, were intercepted
by the troops of the king of Jacoba,
and other allies of Bello, and coming to an engagement,
the latter were utterly routed by the
Sheikh, after a short but sanguinary contest.
The Bornouese obtained immense booty by
this victory, and on drawing near the walls of
Kano, the governor went out to meet them with
the joint forces of that city and the province of
Zeg Zeg, when the Falatahs again suffered a
mortifying defeat, and were obliged to flee back
into Kano, the immense wall of which, with its
ponderous doors, alone prevented the victorious
Sheikh, flushed with success, and glutted
with revenge, from following them into the
town, and annihilating every soul ; in which he
would undoubtedly have been assisted by die
murmuring slaves.
Bello, meantime, was gathering together an
immense army to attack the Sheikh, who, being
made acquainted with the circumstance, in
order more effectually to secure the booty he
had already required, having fulfilled to the
letter his terrible denunciation on the insolent
Falatahs, thought proper to raise the siege of
Kano, and return to his own kingdom, laden
with provisions and spoil; nor did the Gooberites
leave it in the power of Bello to make
reprisals on his triumphant adversaries; so that
they were suffered to retreat unmolested to
Bornou.
The old coffee-pot, tent, and drum, which the
disappointed Falatahs boasted, amongst other
things, they had captured from the Bornouese,
and which were publicly exhibited as trophies
of a victory they had never won, were owned,
the day before I left Soccatoo, by the discomfited
king of Jacoba, as his property, and restored
to that monarch immediately. The prince
informed me that the soldiers of the Sheikh were
so loaded with articles of greater value, that
they they did not think it worth while to have
the trouble of conveying an old worn-out tent,
coffee-pot, &c. to Bornou, and therefore left
them behind for the use of their opponents.
I could hardly forbear laughing to see the
animosity which the Falatahs evinced against
the unconscious coffee-pot, and the dreadful
punishments they inflicted upon it, on all occasions,
as if this inanimate vessel could satisfy
their thirst for vengeance on their enemies. 1
have heard of boys in England, during the period
of the war with France, desperately lopping
off the tops of thistles with a walking-stick,
and exclaiming, with appropriate gesticulation,
" Oh, if you were Frenchmen, we would behead
you in this manner !
" The expression of the Falatah,
with regard to the coffee-pot, was very similar.
I have seen him lift his spear in a transport
of rage, and while his eyes flashed fire, cry out
with dreadful vehemence : " Oh, if you were
the Sheikh of Bornou, thus would I pierce your
vile body !" accompanying his words and gesture
by making, with all the fury of excitement
and disappointed revenge, a valorous thrust at
the ill-used breakfast-preparer of the king of
Jacoba. When it came to be understood, however,
that the coffee-pot did not actually belong
to the Bornouese monarch, but was the property
of one of their most faithful allies, they were overwhelmed
with shame and chagrin ; but hushed
up the matter as well as they were able, vowing,
that as soon as the Gooberites should give them
a short respite, they would be amply revenged
on their spirited and successful antagonists" - RECORDS
OF CAPTAIN CLAPPERTON'S LAST EXPEDITION
TO AFRICA (1830) by Richard Lander

That's 1.

0lumide:

because the Bini don't understand his language and the term he used to describe himself might have died out in Bini because his son, Eweka, will probably be Bini too and not speak Yoruba,

The main thing here is the fact that the Oba dynasty only started when the Yoruba only speaking bini prince started ruling,

Hope now you know Oba is a Yoruba word, Oba dynasty only started when The prince who spoke only Yoruba because he was raised in Yoruba land started ruling,

If Oba was the word Bini people used, how come the first dynasty of Igodomigodo wasn't Oba? Ogiso was what Bini people called their ruler because they believed the ruler came from the sky, which is highly plausible considering many documentaries based on Sumerian gospel talks about visitations from people of another planet, Some Yorubas believe Oduduwa and Obatala came fromthe skies though Obatala existed looooong b4 Oduduwa, just some stooopid propaganda pitching them against each other, That is mostly done why Islamic Yorubas who like to believe Oduduwa came from mecca thereby trying to make Obatala seem less powerful Oduduwa according to them ruled over obatala,

Why would the first dynasty be "Oba dynasty"? I don't even get this. Why would their specific title (Ogiso) be ignored when referring to them?

There isn't some other word for king that I know of, anyway.

And what I want to know is why he didn't take a specific Yoruba title. How will the imported word (oba) survive, but the "term he used to describe himself" (the title) won't? Isn't that just assuming?

My point is, he could have and should have taken a unique Yoruba title, but instead, he merely dropped the title of the unsuccessful predecessors. The unique title would not have been misunderstood any more than the word oba was misunderstood if oba was a foreign word to begin with. Or would he have taken some ridiculously long title composed of two whole sentences of Yoruba? No. It would probably have been formed from one, two or three words (or just from the beginning words of a short sentence, at the most) like most of the other Yoruba kings' titles, and so it would not have been much more complex than the "foreign" word oba itself. If the "imported" word oba survived, whatever title he described himself with should have survived as well, especially considering the extent of the Oba's power and influence.


For an example of what I'm talking about, the Elawure of Usen's title (Elawure) comes from "Olu Awure" which very much seems to be Yoruba. The Oba of Benin should have a similar title if I should accept your premise, but he doesn't. That's an issue which you need to explain convincingly.

The Caliphate and the Fulanis versus Fundah (which was smaller than Nupe):

"WAR WITH FUNDAH.

Fundah was described to me as being a large and populous city, the capital of a kingdom of the same name, and situated on the banks of the
Niger. It is defended by a high wall, except the part facing the sea ; and canoes are continually plying up and down the river, between
the town and the bight of Benin. The inhabitants, having received a quantity of European fire-arms from the coast by this water-conveyance,
no sooner heard of the Falatah conquests, than they perforated the wall of Fundah with innumerable little holes, barely large enough to admit the barrels of muskets, and light for the soldiers to distinguish objects without. The city never was invested in Danfodio's time, that prince wisely contenting himself with the subjection of Houssa, &c. ; but Bello, his successor, having cast an envious eye on so rich and flourishing a kingdom, had long premeditated the conquest of dominions that lay so near and so commodious for the accomplishment of his ambitious views; and attempted to carry his well-matured design into execution a few weeks only after Captain Clapperton had quitted Soccatoo on his former journey (1824). The Sultan accordingly, assembling all his forces, marched with a formidable army towards the devoted Fundah ; and halting about a half
mile from that city, sent the following singular and characteristic message to the king :

BELLO'S MESSAGE.
" Ruler of Fundah ! deliver up your country,
your riches, your people, and your slaves,
to the beloved of God, Mohammed Bello, king
of all the Mussulmans, without reluctance on
your part ; for if you do not suffer him quietly
and peaceably to take possession of your kingdom,
in order to propagate the religion of the
only true Prophet in it, he will shed your blood,
and the blood of your children, and the blood
of your household ; not one shall be left alive :
while your people he will bind with fetters of
iron, to be his slaves and bondsmen for ever
God having so spoken by the mouth of Mohammed!"

KING OF FUNDAH'S ANSWER.
" Sultan of the Falatahs ! The king of
Fundah does not know you or your Prophet ;
he laughs your boastings to scorn, and despises
your impotent threats. Go back to your country,
and live in peace with your people ; for if
you persist in the foolish attempt to invade
his dominions, you will surely fall by his hands ;
and instead of his or his subjects being your
vassals and bondsmen, your slaves shall be his
slaves, and your people his people. Your chiefs
and warriors, and mighty men, will he slaughter
without mercy, and their blood shall be sprinkled
on the walls of his town ; while even your mallams
and emirs will he thrust through with
spears, and cast their bodies into the woods, to
be devoured by lions and birds of prey !"

This insulting and contemptuous message to the beloved of God, the high-minded Bello, irritated the choler of the Falatah monarch to so
great a degree, that he immediately ordered his cavalry to advance to the very walls of Fundah ; and the conquest of that important city was
already effected in his imagination ; the glory and fame he was about to acquire filled him with pride of heart, and the brightest visions of
aggrandizement floated in his fancy. The cavalry were dressed in flowing white tobes; and as they drew near, the mallams, preceding the
horse, read aloud sentences from the Koran, as they were wont to do, till, approaching within a few yards of the fatal wall, they made a simultaneous pause for the infantry to come up. The mallans then embraced the opportunity of reading a few Mohammedan prayers in Arabic,
which no one understood or cared about; and the army unconcernedly prepared to make the attack. They were quite easy as to the result
of it; and contrary to the solemnity of the Moslam character, laughed, joked, and made merry amongst themselves, playing all manner
of antics, just like a fool shaking his bells before the mouth of a cannon about to sweep him to destruction.

Meanwhile the king of Fundah had not been
idle. Anticipating what was actually taking
place, he had prepared to meet the shock of his
powerful antagonist by every means that could
be devised in so pressing an emergency, rallying
the drooping spirits of his people, and dissipating
the dread that even the sound of the Falatah
name could not fail of inspiring. The apertures
already mentioned as being formed in the wall,
the prince caused to be filled with muskets ; and
placing a soldier at each, watched attentively the
motions and advances of his enemies. He
waited till, as it has already been remarked, the
foe, by a strange indifference, began to play the
fool almost close to the walls. Another moment
and a thousand Falatah jaws were extended to
shout the war-cry of their countrymen,
" Allah Ackbar !"
previously to making the premeditated
assault; but before they had uttered the
first syllable of the sentence, their mouths were
suddenly closed by the salute of a volley of musketry
from the fatal wall, which did dreadful
execution amongst them. Hardly knowing
what to make of this rough and ungracious
reception, so entirely different from what they
had ever before experienced, they were petrified
to the spot, and could neither fly, nor prosecute
the assault against the town; but kept their stupid
eyes foolishly staring into each other's countenance,
as if to ask the meaning of what had
taken place.
Whilst the Falatahs were in this state of horrid
suspense, and before they could have time to recover
their presence of mind, another well-directed
discharge of fire-arms from the holes in the wall,
completed the general consternation, broke the
charm that had bound them to the soil, and
away scampered the heroic Mohammedans in
all directions Bello, the beloved of God, and
king of all the Mussulmans ! being the first to
set them the example. At that instant the men
of Fundah, rushing from the gates, accelerated
the flight of the invaders, who were terrorstricken
on hearing the war-cry of their pursuers,
a loud, wild yell, close at their heels ; many
of them were killed, and many taken prisoners,
not one of them daring to make the shadow of
resistance, or even venturing to look behind him.
Being loaded with booty, the successful people of
Fundah discontinued the carnage, and returned
in triumph to their city.
In this disastrous affair, the Falatahs left
five hundred of their best troops dead on the
field, besides a vast number of prisoners and
wounded ; two hundred of the finest horses in
their empire also fell into the hands of the conquerors,
so that the threat of the Fundah monarch
was more than partially accomplished.
This, in African warfare, was considered as a
sanguinary contest : indeed Bello himself was so
severely humbled at the decisive and signal
overthrow, that, for a long season afterwards, he
was ashamed to show himself to his people.
What surprised the Falatahs and their prince
was the death of so many mallams, who, being
placed in front of the horsemen, were consequently
more exposed to the fire of the enemy,
and the first victims to the Fundah musketry ;
but the greatest wonder of all was the loss of an
Arab emir, who received two shots in his breast,
and fell dead from the side of the sultan. These
men were supposed to have a charmed life, and
in all probability believed themselves that they
were invulnerable ; but the result proved on
what a fragile tenure they had held their pretensions
to impenetrability, and opened, in some
measure, the eyes of the multitude to their abominable
deceptions.
The preceding information was first furnished
to me by the king of Jacoba ; and afterwards corroborated
in all its particulars by Mohammed, a
Houssa man, and servant of mine, who accompanied
me to Dunrora. He had been himself a
spectator of the bloody scene he described ; and
fought with the cavalry in the Falatah army, in
their memorable exploit before the walls of
Fundah.
Bello, it was asserted, would not risk the
dangers of a second campaign, the first having
given him a quietus, which, it was generally believed,
would effectually damp his ardour for
conquest during his lifetime. The Falatahs, a
proud, conceited people, and excessively vain of
their national spirit, carefully exclude from their
conversation even an allusion to a defeat ; whilst
their victories are always made the most of, and
repeated a thousand times in every company.
The great eagerness and anxiety which Bello
displayed on Captain Clapperton's former visit
to Soccatoo, to maintain a friendly intercourse
with the English nation, arose undoubtedly
from the expectation, that by the assistance he
should derive by that means, he would find little
difficulty in overcoming his enemies: a universal
despotism which he had attempted, singly
and unprotected, to erect over the minds and
persons of every Pagan nation in the interior,
being a desideratum with him, towards the accomplishment
of which his thoughts and actions
were unceasingly directed." - RECORDS
OF CAPTAIN CLAPPERTON'S LAST EXPEDITION
TO AFRICA (1830) by Richard Lander

^^^^

That's two. The Caliphate was overrated.



The Fulanis eventually overcame Nupe, but only because of pre-existing infighting among the Nupe and the efforts of Mallam Dendo to support different factions for his own personal gain (which is clever, but only possible because of the pre-existing infighting).


The Fulanis only beat Nupe through division and deception. I suspect that the fate they met at the hands of Borno and the smaller Fundah would have met them if they had tried to face a united Nupe that was allied with both Igala and Benin.

"Tabria consists of two towns, lying on the
margins of a stream or river called the Mayyarrow,
which are connected together by a
wooden bridge ; and both places may contain
eighteen thousand inhabitants. They are occasionally
visited by the sovereigns of Nyffe.
An exterminating civil war had been raging
in the kingdom, and was still in active operation
at the period of our arrival ; one party of
the natives siding with Edrisi, a pagan, the
rightful heir to the throne of his deceased father ;
and the other leaning on the side of Mohammed,
a Mussulman, who had disputed his brother's
right of succession. By far the major
part of the people, being pagans, were decidedly
in favour of the former prince ; but the other
having invited the Falatahs to his assistance, had
completely beaten his less fortunate brother, and
it was generally expected that in the next campaign
Edrisi would be driven from the country ;
or, if taken prisoner, decapitated without mercy.
A cessation of hostilities had been resolved on
by the belligerent parties on the day we entered
Tabria ; but the contest would be resumed, it
was affirmed, after the rains."




"The Falatahs left Coulfo for Soccasoo the
day after our arrival at Tabria, with a thousand
slaves, some of whom were partizans of Edrisi,
who had been taken prisoners by that prince.
Besides this, they compelled Mohammed to
present them with four hundred tobes, which
with the slaves they took to Sultan Bello, as a
partial recompence for the services they had
rendered his cause in the late desolating campaign.
Mohammed, called by his people the
Magee, was a most cruel and inhuman prince,
and the greatest scourge that had ever afflicted
his country. He had poisoned, it was confidently
reported, a younger brother and two of
his sons, for having ventured to express their
opinion against his wild and inordinate ambition,
in attempting to rule the kingdom against the
interests and inclinations of the people ; and
because they, in common with their countrymen,
hated the Falatahs most cordially, for the willingness
and alacrity they had ever displayed to
embroil Nyffe in civil war, to the advancement
of their own influence, and the aggrandizement
of their own power.
The war was still raging in Nyffe on my return
to that country from Houssa, with far different
prospects. The pagan brother, Edrisi,
had recovered from the effects of his defeats,
and gained important advantages over Mohammed
and the Falatahs, his allies. This good
success was owing to a large body of men having
come to Edrisi's assistance from Benin, and
inspired with fresh courage his disspirited followers.
very few of them, comparatively speaking,
escaped with life. The week before I revisited
Tabria, Mohammed had experienced another
signal overthrow, and it was generally believed
by the inhabitants that the remnant of the Falatahs,
who had been so roughly handled, would
be obliged to abandon Nyffe in a few days, and
return, discomfited, to Soccasoo, in which case
Edrisi would reign in the kingdom, and Mohammed
either follow the Falatahs, or lose his life
by remaining behind.
On the 25th Captain Clapperton returned
from the camp of Mohammed, and on Tuesday
the 2nd of May we proceeded on our journey
by a path winding along the delightful banks of
the May-yarrow. Passing near to Gonda, a
walled village, and crossing a broad but shallow
stream, we entered by one of the gates into the
town of Coulfo, which is distant from Tabria, in
a direct line, only four miles.
Coulfo is the most considerable market town
in Nyffe, and the general emporium of that part
of Africa. It contains between fifteen and sixteen
thousand resident inhabitants, and, like
These individuals had proceeded up the
Quorra in canoes, and landed at Mulagee, a
small town in Nyffe situated on the banks of
that river ; a junction was then immediately
formed with the pagan natives of the country,
and an attack made on the Mussulmans with
European muskets, a great number of which
they had brought with them ; when the latter,
with the Magee at their head, were defeated
with dreadful slaughter, and the Falatahs being
the objects against whom the fire-arms of the
people of Benin were more particularly directed,
very few of them, comparatively speaking,
escaped with life. The week before I revisited
Tabria, Mohammed had experienced another
signal overthrow, and it was generally believed
by the inhabitants that the remnant of the Falatahs,
who had been so roughly handled, would
be obliged to abandon Nyffe in a few days, and
return, discomfited, to Soccasoo, in which case
Edrisi would reign in the kingdom, and Mohammed
either follow the Falatahs, or lose his life
by remaining behind." - RECORDS
OF CAPTAIN CLAPPERTON'S LAST EXPEDITION
TO AFRICA (1830) by Richard Lander

^^^

Of course, Lander's speculation turned out to be incorrect, and Mallam Dendo manipulated the whole situation to his advantage and the king of the Nupe went on to be a Fulani.

But still, it gives an idea of the kind of alliances Nupe had that could have made a real Caliphate military conquest against a united Nupe kingdom unlikely. In fact, we should recall that at one point in the past, the Nupe were a very very serious threat to Oyo. So size isn't an issue. I think Nupe would have manhandled the Caliphate militarily if elements of their divided kingdom had not been co-opted politically by "agents" of the Caliphate on multiple occasions.

PhysicsQED:

Why would the first dynasty be "Oba dynasty"? I don't even get this. Why would their specific title (Ogiso) be ignored when referring to them?

There isn't some other word for king that I know of, anyway.

And what I want to know is why he didn't take a specific Yoruba title. How will the imported word (oba) survive, but the "term he used to describe himself" (the title) won't? Isn't that just assuming?

My point is, he could have and should have taken a unique Yoruba title, but instead, he merely dropped the title of the unsuccessful predecessors. The unique title would not have been misunderstood any more than the word oba was misunderstood if oba was a foreign word to begin with. Or would he have taken some ridiculously long title composed of two whole sentences of Yoruba? No. It would probably have been formed from one, two or three words (or just from the beginning words of a short sentence, at the most) like most of the other Yoruba kings' titles, and so it would not have been much more complex than the "foreign" word oba itself. If the "imported" word oba survived, whatever title he described himself with should have survived as well, especially considering the extent of the Oba's power and influence.


For an example of what I'm talking about, the Elawure of Usen's title (Elawure) comes from "Olu Awure" which very much seems to be Yoruba. The Oba of Benin should have a similar title if I should accept your premise, but he doesn't. That's an issue which you need to explain convincingly.

What will be your reference to the fact that all of Yorubas call their kings kabiyesi and oba? That bini had influence in all of Yoruba?

And if you read my last comment well, you will see that I stated that it is highly possible that the title he chosed died with him because he was probably the only Yoruba speaker in Benin,

Also, he probably didn't know what to call the land described as Igodomigodo, what? oluigodomigodo of igodomigodo? lol duuude!! Benin is a new name for an ancient city,

Oba is what Yorubas call their kings, all Yorubas, considering that the man speaks yoruba, he might have called himself simple Oba, Hi dad probably told him "lo je oba , " which means go and become king ,

Since Yoruba was his language, he has to call himself Oba, Iya Oba is not a Benin term but didn't a king give his mom that title? That's to show you the Yoruba speaking in the palace,

Iya means mother in Yoruba depending how you call (Iya can mean sufferin), Iya is not mother in Benin but is mother in Yoruba,