funkmrflexx:

Why not just prevent this by making the fruit inaccessible to them. That's the logical thing to do

Has anyone quoted or cited a verse in the Bible where God specifically say He knows all the things men will turn out to be?

When God was talking to Abraham he said:

“The outcry against Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy. I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it. Genesis 18:20-21

Again God said:

“Do not harm the boy, and do not do anything at all to him, for now I do know that you are God-fearing because you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.” Genesis 22:12

Please did the person talking there say He knows everything?

Kobojunkie:
This isn't rocket science abeg! If Adam and Eve were clones and married each other, and they were both the only male and females created, ......

I beg your pardon, but Adam and Eve were both not "the only male and females God" is written to have created.

For before Adam was created from mud God had created Man in his own image, "both male and female created He them". And nor were those created in God's Image) placed to work naked in a garden like Adam, but to be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the sea, for which they were given every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; and every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, and every green herb were they given for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. As opposed to Adam who was not given the fruit of the tree of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to eat.

I make no comment about Cain's marriage however, please note, but just correcting a misconception.

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam and even, He know what they would do. He knew they would be Tempted and they would eat the fruit and bring Sin to the world and He also knows that His son would have to die in order to save us from the sin caused by the fruit

There is a lot you don't know of God's Truth and this because you have yet to in fact read and process the contents of scripture for your own self.

The following is what Jesus Christ said of His laying down of His life for His sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” - John 10 vs 14 - 18

Pay close attention to the fact that He not only did it voluntarily but that it also takes away nothing from Him by doing so. Instead, He gains glory by doing so from the Father and from those who are His sheep. Does that there sound like one who desires your pity in any way?

Something else you ought to be aware of. In Genesis 2 vs 15 - 16, you are told that God planted 2 trees - the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil and the tree of Life. Well, guess who Jesus Christ is?

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” - John 14 vs 6 - 7

Jesus Christ is the embodiment of God's Truth(from the tree of knowledge of good and evil) and God's Life(from the tree of Life) repackaged and reoffered to mankind a second time around by God. Yes, God, through Jesus Christ made to individuals the same offer He made to Adam in the beginning. As we know, Adam rejected the offer but God's plan all along was to give each man a chance at the same offer even after that. And that offer as explained is Jesus Christ.

Yes! God knows that they will fail the temptation. From my point of view, God taught them what i tamed "His principles" without knowing the magnitude of that! They can't fulfil purpose.

GAMZYTK:
Yes! God knows that they will fail the temptation. From my point of view, God taught them what i tamed "His principles" without knowing the magnitude of that! They can't fulfil purpose.

God taught them what?,

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam and even, He know what they would do. He knew they would be Tempted and they would eat the fruit and bring Sin to the world and He also knows that His son would have to die in order to save us from the sin caused by the fruit
Why didn't He just make the fruit inaccessible to them so they don't eat it.
But instead He Allowed them to get access to the fruit, eat and bring sin to the world.
Mind you, He's all knowing and He knows all this would happen before they did. He knew Satan would tempt them and they will fall, He also knew that He would have to curse them when they eat the fruit.
Why not just prevent this by making the fruit inaccessible to them. That's the logical thing to do

Is God all knowing?
No!
He never claimed that.

cornelboy:

Is God all knowing?
No!
He never claimed that.

I thought He's omniscient

O LORD, you have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from far away. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, O LORD, you know it completely. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that I cannot attain it (Psalm 139:1-6).

funkmrflexx:

I thought He's omniscient

Consider what is spoken of Him in scripture.

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46 vs 10

God did infact state that He knows the end of every moment from its beginning.

funkmrflexx:

I thought He's omniscient

That's what false religions claims!

Of course He supposed to be but for a reason He is not presently!

funkmrflexx:

I thought He's omniscient

No. He never said he is.

cornelboy:

No. He never said he is.

The Bible says God knows the end from the beginning. Isn't That omniscience?

So when He created adam and Eve, He knew their end from the moment he created them. If you say otherwise that means the Bible isn't correct

cornelboy:

No. He never said he is.

The New Testament reemphasizes this truth: “God is greater than our heart, and knows all things” (1 John 3:20,

cornelboy:

No. He never said he is.

O LORD, you have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from far away. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, O LORD, you know it completely. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that I cannot attain it (Psalm 139:1-6).

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam and even, He know what they would do. He knew they would be Tempted and they would eat the fruit and bring Sin to the world and He also knows that His son would have to die in order to save us from the sin caused by the fruit
Why didn't He just make the fruit inaccessible to them so they don't eat it.
But instead He Allowed them to get access to the fruit, eat and bring sin to the world.

Mind you, He's all knowing and He knows all this would happen before they did. He knew Satan would tempt them and they will fall, He also knew that He would have to curse them when they eat the fruit.

Why not just prevent this by making the fruit inaccessible to them. That's the logical thing to do

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.

(Copied)

My all point is based on the fact that God knows everything. That's why I'm using His omniscience as a the main point

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam and even, He know what they would do. He knew they would be Tempted and they would eat the fruit and bring Sin to the world and He also knows that His son would have to die in order to save us from the sin caused by the fruit
Why didn't He just make the fruit inaccessible to them so they don't eat it.
But instead He Allowed them to get access to the fruit, eat and bring sin to the world.

Mind you, He's all knowing and He knows all this would happen before they did. He knew Satan would tempt them and they will fall, He also knew that He would have to curse them when they eat the fruit.

Why not just prevent this by making the fruit inaccessible to them. That's the logical thing to do

Moses Maimonides (1135-1204) has set out the problem in the traditional manner:

…”Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest ‘He knows’, then it necessarily follows that [that] man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God’s knowledge would be imperfect.…” (1966, pp. 99-100)

The argument can be extended. The thrust of the argument does not apply only to doing good or ill, but indeed to every human act, from the most mundane to the most significant. The argument could just as well read:

“Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual (let’s say the Prime Minister of Canada), on Feb. 3, 2081, will put on brown shoes when dressing in the morning? If thou sayest ‘He knows’, then it necessarily follows that the Prime Minister is compelled to act (that is, to put on brown shoes) as God knew beforehand he/she would, otherwise God’s knowledge would be imperfect. …”

PhenomenalAustin:
When Cain was cast away after murdering Abel, he went to the land of Nod and married a wife.. Where did the wife come from? I mean, did God create other people same time he created Adam and Eve, orrrrrrr is this fiction?

He married his sister.

Adam had female children, you know the bible doesn't give prominence to the female children.

Genesis 5:4
[4]And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

funkmrflexx:

The Bible says God knows the end from the beginning. Isn't That omniscience?
So when He created adam and Eve, He knew their end from the moment he created them. If you say otherwise that means the Bible isn't correct

God created all heavenly creatures and assigned them duties trusting them as His handiwork just as a manufacturer can trust his own invention so when some decided to rebel God told them what will result from their rebellion: they will never end up being happy because He is the only source of happiness.

Ever since then God turned His face away from whatever Satan and Adams descendants are doing after all they demanded independence which will surely cause their ruin. So He posted His loyal angelic sons to continue roving the planet in search of anyone who is willing to be godly. That's why He never claim to be omniscient because it's only the reports brought to His notice that He knows {Genesis 18:20-21} He is Holy (Pure) what will result from rebellion will always cause Him sadness {Genesis 6:6} so to keep His happy mood He decided to look away only His angels are going up and down bringing reports to Him.
So if you read about someone in the Bible that God made His friend it's the report those angels are bringing to Him that led to such friendship! Job 1:8

Regarding King David God was close to this man because he was sitting on God's throne representing God as the ruler over God's people. Don't think God cares about those who have no business with His righteous decrees from God's standpoint such faithless people are like walking corpse because God doesn't even know they exist! Luke 9:60

funkmrflexx:

O LORD, you have [b]searched me and known me[/b]. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from far away. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, O LORD, you know it completely. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that I cannot attain it (Psalm 139:1-6).

Yet God never said that he knows the outcome of everything.

Study those bolded phrases well. You'd see that God only choose to know about whomever he likes, the righteous ones probably.

You think God would want to know about the wicked thoughts in every wicked human on earth?

funkmrflexx:

The Bible says God knows the end from the beginning. Isn't That omniscience?
So when He created adam and Eve, He knew their end from the moment he created them. If you say otherwise that means the Bible isn't correct

If he really knew their end, he wouldn't have created them.

See the fact is that God can choose to know or do otherwise.
He can know about everything but does he knows everything or does he choose to know about everything?
No!

cornelboy:

No. He never said he is.

Is he omnipotent though? If yes, then the bible contradicts itself. If he is not, then he is no God.

kimco:
Is he omnipotent though? If yes, then the bible contradicts itself. If he is not, then he is no God.

What do you mean when you say the Bible contradicts itself in this instance?

According to scripture, God's Power encompasses all that which He created meaning that He rules over all that is created by Him hence. His Omnipotence in the context of His creation points to His sovereignty over them all, and not some other ideas of men.

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam a..........sible to them. That's the logical thing to do

The Lord is always kindest and is interested in the happiness of all the human beings that are His children only. Gita says that the Lord is the father of all the living beings (Aham Bija Pradah Pita). The father always tries to favour His children and likes to see His children to be always happy. Originally only good path was created and all the human beings were permanently happy forever.

There was no trace of sorrow in their minds. That was called ‘Kruta Yuga’ or ‘Satya Yuga’ in which the deity of justice was standing on four legs. But in due course of time the continuous happiness started boring the human beings. One cannot eat sweets continuously. This reminds the “Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility” in Economics. They were bored and started feeling unhappy. Their minds were disturbed due to continuous happiness.

Therefore there was a need of break in the continuous happiness. That break can be only sorrow, which can be the fruit of sin only. Therefore the chilies were needed as breaks in the continuous eating of sweets.

Only for the happiness of His children, the Lord created the sin. He gave freedom to the souls so that they commit the sins and earn the chilies. Then the Lord arranged the life cycles by keeping sweets and chilies alternatively. Such arrangement alone can bring the real permanent happiness without boring. If it is continuous winter, you will get bored.

Summer is necessary. If it is continuous daytime it will be boring. Night is necessary. Even in the food the Lord created both sweets and chilies so that His children will enjoy the meals without boring. While eating the food, people will eat sweet dishes and hot dishes alternatively. Similarly the life cycle was arranged. Therefore creation of sin originally by the Lord shows only the infinite kindness of the Lord for His children.

Even if you have done two sins continuously, He is not giving the results of those two sins subsequently. In between these two sins a sweet result of good deed is penetrated so that the whole life cycle is an alternative arrangement of sweet and hot dishes i.e., results of good deeds and bad deeds. Such arrangement also shows the infinite kindness of the Lord for His children.

But what are you doing? You are pestering the God by showing false love through words (prayers) and mind (devotion) for removing the chilies and for getting sweets continuously. Since your love is not true, the Lord will not interfere with the theory of Karma, which says that one must enjoy the results of good and bad deeds. Therefore when you are pestering the Lord He is bringing the sweets from your future cycles as pre-matured fixed deposits with reduced values.

He is postponing your present chilies to the future cycles with added interests. Therefore as you are passing through the life cycles you are slowly entering such life cycles in which you are finding many number of chilies and less number of sweets. Remember that your future cycles are going to be full of chilies only without a single sweet.

In such life cycles the Lord cannot help you even if you cry to any extent. Then you are loosing your faith in the Lord and you will do sins only in such life cycles. Such sins will create further life cycles full of chilies only. Like this a chain reaction is set up and there is no end for such cycles of chilies and finally you will be born as a worm in drainage, which continuously undergoes misery only.

By doing rituals and doing certain worships and donations as suggested by astrologers, your sin is not cancelled and you will not get the fruit of a good deed, which was not done by you. These rituals suggested by priests and astrologers are of two types. 1) Trying to please the Lord by prayers (words) and devotion or meditation (mind). This type resembles the path of a prostitute who tries to please a person by words and feelings only to get some fruit from that person practically.

2) Trying to please the Lord by sacrificing work (Karma Sanyasa) and by sacrificing fruit of work (Karma Phala Tyaga) for getting some fruit from the Lord in return. This is the type of business of a merchant in which you give something and take something in return. In both these ways your future sweets are only brought to this life cycle and your present chilies are pushed to your future life cycles, because your love in these two ways is completely false.

In true love you will do Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga without aspiring any fruit in return. Of course sacrifice of words and mind to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return is good, but cannot bring any fruit from the Lord. When you sacrifice words and mind, you are getting peace and pleasure in your heart and that it self is the fruit for that. When you are working in a field you are singing a song.

The owner of the field will pay for your work only but not for your singing. The work alone can bring the fruit, which is called Karma Yoga that consists of Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga. While doing Karma Yoga you may chant or sing or express devotion for your peace and your happiness only. That cannot bring any fruit from the Lord. EX: Suppose you work in the field for one hour and sing the songs for another hour without doing the work, the owner will pay you for one hour only and not for two hours.

There is only one path to get rid of the fruits of your sins and to get the fruit of good deeds, which you have not done. When you serve the Lord in human form here in this world, the Lord in human form will transfer your sins upon Him and will suffer for your sake. As a servant of the Lord, you are entering the second cycle called ‘Deva Yaana’ or ‘Jyothir Marga’ as explained in Gita. You will go to Brahmaloka along with the Lord and derive continuous happiness here and there in the presence of the Lord.

But in this path you should serve the Lord without aspiring any fruit and even this path. Such selfless service consists of Karma Sanyasa as done by Hanuman to Rama and Karma Phala Tyaga as done by Gopikas by offering butter to Krishna. In this path recognition of human incarnation of the Lord is very very important. The Lord comes in every human generation. Otherwise the Lord becomes partial to a particular human generation.

Hanuman and Gopikas never worshipped statues or photos of previous incarnations or the Gods present in the upper worlds like Brahma, Vishnu, Siva etc. In human body only, the Lord can enjoy your sins really as any other human being. Then only He can do the justice to the Law of Justice. Otherwise in the form of a statue or a photo He cannot enjoy your sins and therefore the Lord is never entering the statue or photo as said in Veda ‘Natasya Pratima Asti’.

Therefore the original creation of sin by God cannot be blamed. In fact it shows His infinite kindness to see His children to be really happy with alternative enjoyment of sweet and hot dishes.

kimco:

Is he omnipotent though? If yes, then the bible contradicts itself. If he is not, then he is no God.

Lol. What are the criteria of being a god?
Your little self is in no position to describe what qualities of God should be.

cornelboy:

Lol. What are the criteria of being a god?
Your little self is in no position to describe what qualities of God should be.

There are many insanes but clothings is what's hiding their madness!

cornelboy:

Lol. What are the criteria of being a god?

It depends on the level of education, vocabulary, and beliefs of the person talking about the god. Gods are as various as humans because gods don’t exist outside the human mind and are wholly dependent on the human mind. However, there is one criteria common to all the gods and that is fiction.

When was the last time you hear the “word of god” come out of a god’s mouth instead of a man’s mouth?

The gods are Omniblablabla and can do all things except speak for themselves.

KnownUnknown:

It depends on the level of education, vocabulary, and beliefs of the person talking about the god. Gods are as various as humans because gods don’t exist outside the human mind and are wholly dependent on the human mind. However, there is one criteria common to all the gods and that is fiction.
When was the last time you hear the “word of god” come out of a god’s mouth instead of a man’s mouth?
The gods are Omniblablabla and can do all things except speak for themselves.

What your saying doesn't make any sense to me.
We both have different beliefs about God. So stick to yours while I stick to mine.

My own god is an intelligent being behind existence of all life. The God of the Jews.

cornelboy:

What your saying doesn't make any sense to me.
We both have different beliefs about God. So stick to yours while I stick to mine.

My own god is an intelligent being behind existence of all life. The God of the Jews.

Of course it doesn’t make sense to you. Nothing surprising about that since religion has obviously warped your critical thinking and ability to tell fact from fiction. The “god of the Jews” is a fictional character created by that particular culture.
And of course he can be as intelligent as you want it to be. He can be behind, in the middle, and in front of existence of all life if you want it to be. He can even talk to you if you want. He can be whatever you want him to be.
He is the god of the Jews so I guess the rest of you are afterthoughts.

Kobojunkie:
Your mistake is assuming God didn't expect all of this to happen from before He made man.

it is not all about the all knowingness of God in this case now but his love to give man a free will. Even till now God will never boss it over anybody. It's his highest act of love to make man in his image with the freedom to choose.

tytachile:
it is not all about the all knowingness of God in this case now but his love to give man a free will. Even till now God will never boss it over anybody. It's his highest act of love to make man in his image with the freedom to choose.

Again with the assumptions....

What exactly is it about God's Love that should have kept Him, God, from doing that which He did?

What exactly do you think free will is other than the ability to choose between right and wrong?

God did not want robots but individuals who could choose between right and wrong, and that is what He did. He create man and gave man the freedom to choose right or wrong. Adam's decision to choose wrong is all Adam's and not God's. Adam's son, Abel, chose God, and that was Abel's choice. So God created all those to mine for Himself those who will choose Him.

Kobojunkie:
Again with the assumptions....

What exactly is it about God's Love that should have kept Him, God, from doing that which He did?

What exactly do you think free will is other than the ability to choose between right and wrong?

God did not want robots but individuals who could choose between right and wrong, and that is what He did. He create man and gave man the freedom to choose right or wrong. Adam's decision to choose wrong is all Adam's and not God's. Adam's son, Abel, chose God, and that was Abel's choice. So God created all those to mine for Himself those who choose Him.

wanted to respond to the thread itself not you, but seems we are saying the same thing!

tytachile:
wanted to respond to the thread itself not you, but seems we are saying the same thing!

OK

When folks mention God's Love, I want to tell them that when God buried about 14,000 israelites under the desert sands for their stiffneckedness, that was Love in action. When God part the red sea and buried the Egyptian army in it, that was also Love in action. God is Love and everything He does is Love.

KnownUnknown:

Of course it doesn’t make sense to you. Nothing surprising about that since religion has obviously warped your critical thinking and ability to tell fact from fiction. The “god of the Jews” is a fictional character created by that particular culture.
And of course he can be as intelligent as you want it to be. He can be behind, in the middle, and in front of existence of all life if you want it to be. He can even talk to you if you want. He can be whatever you want him to be.
He is the god of the Jews so I guess the rest of you are afterthoughts.

Lol. Shebi na you give yourself life Abi
Good luck with your imaginary friend you call your God.