Namdio:
Lol, I feel like you've stepped into a trap

Lol, I feel like you've stepped into a trap

Maybe but

People aren't INHERENTLY good.
Nevertheless, we are all capable of good deeds.

Just as even the worst of men have done good before.

The 'best' of us go out of their way to control /discipline themselves but even them have missteps.

Asour:


No. It's not good.
Why do you ask?

Hold on.
Can the killing of hundreds of children and babies be justified, especially when they did nothing wrong? Can such action carried out by adults be justified? Please give a direct answer.

Asour:



Maybe but

People aren't INHERENTLY good.
Nevertheless, we are all capable of good deeds.

Just as even the worst of men have done good before.

The 'best' of us go out of their way to control /discipline themselves but even them have missteps.

Wish there was a higher level of liking

kingxsamz:


Hold on.
Can the killing of hundreds of children and babies be justified, especially when they [b]did nothing wrong? [/b]Can such action carried out by adults be justified? Please give a direct answer.

I certainly know where you're going with this.
About God sanctioning the death of children.....etc.
Right?


Well. I'm not God so I can't answer that.

Namdio:


God never asked for human sacrifice, (the only thing I can think of was a case where a man promised God the first thing that came out to meet him, and it was his only daughter, poor guy)

Abraham didn't kill the Isaac in the end, so...

Also, it wasn't an order it was a request

But I don't think I'm qualified enough to refute you arguments well

Lol, where in my write up did you see "asked for human sacrifice"?
I said he accepted it, not ask.

If you see a man in the bush about to slaughter his son and burn him to ashes, will you shout for help or try to stop him, or will you let him be if he told you "God requested for it"? Let me know.
Also, you ignored the many other atrocious acts carried out by the Christian god in the bible.

Asour:


I certainly know where you're going with this.
About God sanctioning the death of children.....etc.
Right?


Well. I'm not God so I can answer that.

Okay, you can't answer abi?
Great. But you can tell people that "God is good". Okay o, continue.

dhardline:


When people make this statements all I see is the total warped understanding of the scriptures. Hopefully one day you'll build/make/design something with your hands that you are meant to use, when that thing whatsoever it is stops serving its intended purpose I wonder if it would dictate to you what you'll do with it next.

You have not even started to scratch the surface of how great God is.

But Really you are right though on the part that I should stop explaining to you because you would not understand because it has not been given to you to understand.

You said a whole bunch of nothing and completely disregarded what I said because you know you can't defend any of those things I listed, but you want to tell us how morally upright your religion is. Before you do that, conveniently defend every atrocious act I listed in that post, if not, you're not ready.

kingxsamz:


Okay, you can't answer abi?
Great. But you can tell people that "God is good". Okay o, continue.

Yes.
Because the Bible says it.
It isn't my opinion.

Also, as men we aren't always able to clearly assess the deeds of God as we do men.

I don't say God is good because of my feelings.
I say it because the Bible says it.

kingxsamz:


Lol, where in my write up did you see "asked for human sacrifice"?
I said he accepted it, not ask.

If you see a man in the bush about to slaughter his son and burn him to ashes, will you shout for help or try to stop him, or will you let him be if he told you "God requested for it"? Let me know.
Also, you ignored the many other atrocious acts carried out by the Christian god in the bible.

I know, I changed my wording because of it lol.

Yeah, I ignored them because I'm only pointing out the ones I have problem with. Yes people carried out the acts. Yes they received instructions from God to do so. To deny it would be to lie.

The Bible is a historical collection of events, these things happened in wars. It was penned down my men who are prone to painting things through their lens. We cannot know if it was truly God inspired we can only believe it.

Also, I think the asking is more important than the receiving. Permitting something because you know the person isn't ready to change their ways carries a different weight than asking someone to do it.

If someone you loved killed someone to make money and gave you a portion of it, to reject it would be akin to rejecting them, especially if they believe it their only way of making said money. You may accept it, but it doesn't mean you agree with them or what they've done.

The case would be different if you asked them to do it, wouldn't it?

As for the question I've been dancing around, I'll try to stop it if I can, but a man who is stuck in their ways won't be so easily persuaded.

The focus of the story of Abraham and Isaac should be Abraham's openness to hear when God told him to stop. Some may not hear it and go ahead and kill their son, then proceed to blame God for it, when God had nothing to do with it.

Asour:



Yes.
Because the Bible says it.
It isn't my opinion.

Also, as men we aren't always able to clearly assess the deeds of God as we do men.

I don't say God is good because of my feelings.
I say it because the Bible says it.

Since everything this god does is good because the bible says it, will you kill 10 babies if this god asked you to? Be sincere.

kingxsamz:


Okay, you can't answer abi?
Great. But you can tell people that "God is good". Okay o, continue.

You can tell a lot about a person, but you can only say as much as you've experienced with him/her. God is good because we have decided to experience the side of Him that is good.

Even the kindest person you know can lose it and become someone you've can't recognize. Thinking you can know all about any human is an arrogant view. It is impossible, talkless of a being our minds can't even begin to comprehend.

kingxsamz:


Since everything this god does is good because the bible says it, will you kill 10 babies if this god asked you to? Be sincere.

No. I'll tell you why.

[Present day] manifestation of God 'speaking' can easily be false. I.e. go against God's Command IN THE BIBLE.

Since Christ came, Death & direct blood sacrifices have been done away with (New testament). So God's is highly unlikely going to have me do that.

IF/WHEN we get to heaven we can surely know why those cases in the Bible happened.

kingxsamz:


You said a whole bunch of nothing and completely disregarded what I said because you know you can't defend any of those things I listed, but you want to tell us how morally upright your religion is. Before you do that, conveniently defend every atrocious act I listed in that post, if not, you're not ready.

Facepalm: and since you can't understand what I wrote I'll spell it out for you in easier terms.

1.For the wages of sin is death.
2.For all have sinned.

You see that the problem you have is that you do not know that you have already been sentenced to death by the slightest sin against God. For God will not lie and His word MUST be fulfilled. and if so then all who sin MUST die.

So God created you just like a Potter makes a clay pot and chooses if he wants to eat with one or put shit in the other! Same way a man designs an app and says this is a for sending money and not for chatting. You see that the maker or designer chooses what he wills to do with what he has made. If man has that power why do you think/feel God should not? Hence if what we have made fails to do what we have designed it to do we are at liberty to either dispose it, delete it or do what ever we want with it. But God in His infinite mercy know that His word must be fulfilled made an escape for us and GAVE His only son(Jesus Christ) to die the death due to us and asked us to believe in the substitute that He made available to us as the only payment for what we owe. If you still can't decide the answers to your questions from here then I guess I'll have to add prayers for you.

Namdio:


I know, I changed my wording because of it lol.

Yeah, I ignored them because I'm only pointing out the ones I have problem with. Yes people carried out the acts. Yes they received instructions from God to do so. To deny it would be to lie.

The Bible is a historical collection of events, these things happened in wars. It was penned down my men who are prone to painting things through their lens. We cannot know if it was truly God inspired we can only believe it.

Also, I think the asking is more important than the receiving. Permitting something because you know the person isn't ready to change their ways carries a different weight than asking someone to do it.

If someone you loved killed someone to make money and gave you a portion of it, to reject it would be akin to rejecting them, especially if they believe it their only way of making said money. You may accept it, but it doesn't mean you agree with them or what they've done.

The case would be different if you asked them to do it, wouldn't it?

As for the question I've been dancing around, I'll try to stop it if I can, but a man who is stuck in their ways won't be so easily persuaded.

The focus of the story of Abraham and Isaac should be Abraham's openness to hear when God told him to stop. Some may not hear it and go ahead and kill their son, then proceed to blame God for it, when God had nothing to do with it.

Lol, if someone I loved killed someone just to make money, I'm not only going to reject the money, but I'll reject them, and that's if I don't call the police.
But this case is totally different because the god who accepted this sacrifice is omniscient, he knows the result of the outcome and yet let it happen. He did not only let it happen but went as far as granting the request of this person.
It's like you know the future, and someone comes to you that he will kill the first person he sees when he gets home for you, if only you can give him 1 million naira, and then you go ahead to give him 1 million naira even though you know that it'll cost him his little daughter's life.
I'm sure you know how terrible this is, even if you might try to water it down...

As for Abraham and his son.
My point is, an omniscient god "requesting" that a man should slaughter his son just to prove loyalty is a very sick concept. Imagine you at 15 years and your dad tied you up and wanted to cut off your head with a machete. Even if he says a god asked him to do it, won't that experience alone change your entire relationship with your father?
It's like you think this whole sacrifice issue is like a simple case of flogging a child or shouting at them.

dhardline:


Facepalm: and since you can't understand what I wrote I'll spell it out for you in kindergarten so pay attention.

For the wages of sin is death.

Which sin did babies commit for them to be slaughtered by men?

Namdio:


Silence is a sound, the same way nobody is a person (even though the definitions say otherwise).

After all people wouldn't say all I heard was silence. Or Nobody listened.

If silence wasn't a sound how could you hear it?

If Nobody wasn't a person how could it listen?

While everybody didn't listen feels very awkward, I feel it carries more weight than nobody listened.

After all the former tells you that all the people didn't pay attention while the latter says a non-entity did.

It's just a few things I think about, don't have to accept it.

But I'll end with this

In mathematics the definition of a set also includes the empty set, which is meant to contain nothing. An empty set is also an item within the set.

So in "Everybody didn't listen," even that which is nobody didn't listen

I don't mean to come as across as antagonistic but to me this is just an exercise in obfuscation. In your first sentence, you accept the fact that the words you are using have already been defined, and yet you wish that you and I casually discard these definitions just so you can ruminate on pointless oxymorons and pretend that they are factual. If we start divorcing every word from their meanings, then where do we draw the line on what is or isn't sensible?

Asour:


No. I'll tell you why.

[Present day] manifestation of God 'speaking' can easily be false. I.e. go against God's Command IN THE BIBLE.

Since Christ came, Death & direct blood sacrifices have been done away with (New testament). So God's is highly unlikely going to have me do that.

IF/WHEN we get to heaven we can surely know why those cases in the Bible happened.

I asked you if he orders you to will you, I didn't ask you if he'll make such request.
Surely, a god who used to kill babies might have no problem killing more in 2022. I mean, he's God right? He does what he wants.
So answer my question. Will you?

Namdio:


You can tell a lot about a person, but you can only say as much as you've experienced with him/her. God is good because we have decided to experience the side of Him that is good.

Even the kindest person you know can lose it and become someone you've can't recognize. Thinking you can know all about any human is an arrogant view. It is impossible, talkless of a being our minds can't even begin to comprehend.

Okay, so was Hitler bad?

dhardline:


Facepalm: and since you can't understand what I wrote I'll spell it out for you in easier terms.

1.For the wages of sin is death.
2.For all have sinned.

You see that the problem you have is that you do not know that you have already been sentenced to death by the slightest sin against God. For God will not lie and His word MUST be fulfilled. and if so then all who sin MUST die.

So God created you just like a Potter makes a clay pot and chooses if he wants to eat with one or put shit in the other! Same way a man designs an app and says this is a for sending money and not for chatting. You see that the maker or designer chooses what he wills to do with what he has made. If man has that power why do you think/feel God should not? Hence if what we have made fails to do what we have designed it to do we are at liberty to either dispose it, delete it or do what ever we want with it. But God in His infinite mercy know that His word must be fulfilled made an escape for us and GAVE His only son(Jesus Christ) to die the death due to us and asked us to believe in the substitute that He made available to us as the only payment for what we owe. If you still can't decide the answers to your questions from here then I guess I'll have to add prayers for you.

Parables man, parables. None of these address my points. So I'll just ignore from now on.

uche40:


I don't mean to come as across as antagonistic but to me this is just an exercise in obfuscation. In your first sentence, you accept the fact that the words you are using have already been defined, and yet you wish that you and I casually discard these definitions just so you can ruminate on pointless oxymorons and pretend that they are factual. If we start divorcing every word from their meanings, then where do we draw the line on what is or isn't sensible?

It is in the separation of words from their definitions that we get the beauty of idiomatic expressions.

While for normal use it is useless to do such extrapolations, doing so just for the fun of it is also... fun.

Like some people say, even in nonsense there is sense. Certain inspirations can only be arrived at by doing this needless extrapolations.

The reason behind the ruminations being considered, I ask, why draw a line? The point of my rumination was not so that it would be used in exchange for what is normally used, it was to view things from a different pair of lens.

You draw the line where you can make no more extrapolations, when you can find no more oxymorons? It is an exercise that boosts creativity.

There would be no need to examine poetry if the words of the poem were taken for what they literally meant. Deeper layers would not be found.

When you imagine, all ideas are valid ideas. They are to be had. When one ruminates over what you have imagined, you can now decide which is acceptable and which to cast away. But this should happen after.

One may see his situation in a rock, and may even think himself to be a rock. Is that a contradiction? For the man is not the rock, he is clearly a man and the rock is clearly just a rock.

But it is only in the divorce for literal definitions can we truly see what is meant. That he is the only constant thing in a world that constantly changes. Just like the rock remains thought he environment changes, perhaps due to it being displaced or some disaster destroying it's previous habitat.

In the same way I try to bring to mind that the rejection by all is more absolute than the acceptance of none.

kingxsamz:



I asked you if he orders you to will you, I didn't ask you if he'll make such request.
Surely, a god who used to kill babies might have no problem killing more in 2022. I mean, he's God right? He does what he wants.
So answer my question. Will you?

Conjectures aren't easy to answer.

Chances of finding a female atheist in Nigeria is slim let alone finding a decent one. That's like finding a needle in the bottom and middle of the ocean. You will search till infinity.

Like how do you expect someone with a no rule mentality to play decent?

For the whites they might be for some time but might also wake up one day and become a whole new person. That's live of an atheist.

Bro follow God. It's better you live a good life, die and discover you will scammed (419) than die and discover it's all real. Think about it.

I have had many experience that makes me want to give up on this religion thing but each time I look back, how the Bible syncs with creation, how modified the human body is, how they sync with one another and the science behind space and Earth, Mehn! I just knew our existence isn't a mistake and that we weren't formed from a galactical explosion.

God is real bro. You just haven't found the right spark to follow him.

Namdio:
...The point of my rumination was not so that it would be used in exchange for what is normally used, it was to view things from a different pair of lens...

Look, I think it's nice that you seek to be creative with words and learn new meanings from them. As for me, I prefer to stick to the literal interpretations of known terms. Don't get me wrong, I can and very often appreciate the brilliant use of language in poetry and literature. But I don't believe such endeavor serves well in a discussion that aims to establish facts.

Asour:



Conjectures aren't easy to answer.

It's all good, lol.

kingxsamz:


Lol, if someone I loved killed someone just to make money, I'm not only going to reject the money, but I'll reject them, and that's if I don't call the police.
But this case is totally different because the god who accepted this sacrifice is omniscient, he knows the result of the outcome and yet let it happen. He did not only let it happen but went as far as granting the request of this person.
It's like you know the future, and someone comes to you that he will kill the first person he sees when he gets home for you, if only you can give him 1 million naira, and then you go ahead to give him 1 million naira even though you know that it'll cost him his little daughter's life.
I'm sure you know how terrible this is, even if you might try to water it down...

As for Abraham and his son.
My point is, an omniscient god "requesting" that a man should slaughter his son just to prove loyalty is a very sick concept. Imagine you at 15 years and your dad tied you up and wanted to cut off your head with a machete. Even if he says a god asked him to do it, won't that experience alone change your entire relationship with your father?
It's like you think this whole sacrifice issue is like a simple case of flogging a child or shouting at them.

Now to deal with you.

It seems you don't understand the meaning of love. To love someone means to accept them even when they don't accept themselves, to let a person know, I'm with you despite what you've done. It is helping one be the best they can be. Love doesn't accept the action, but the person regardless of the action, because love knows that the person is capable of doing much more. That is what I believe God is.

Now take a look past that one moment of when the person gives you the money from killing. Let me ask, who would the person listen to more, the one who accepted his show of appreciation or the one who not only rejected his show of appreciation but punished him for it?

Don't forget the basis of this, the fact that the person believes a rejection of his offering is a rejection of himself, (you could consider the case of Cain and Abel).

Taking this even further, what if you are the highest authority? You are the one who punishes. You are the police you turn this person in to.

If and when they come out of punishment you have created an outlier in your society, a rebel, who will disobey you because he believes you have rejected him.

In the other case, the person has an opportunity to be constantly influenced by your words, because he believes that you accept him.

Now, imagine if you made laws, and these laws governed how everything worked, literally everything. And no one, not even yourself, is above these laws. This is what happened in that case.

The world works on equivalent exchange, you must give before you get. Most people give up their time in order to get money, no matter the amount. But time is not the only thing you can give. You could give up your ideas, your mind, your opinion, your body, you life and yes even the life of others. The law of equivalent exchange cannot be violated, hence if you give up your daughter in exchange for 1 million you will get it.

The thing is that this happens everyday with us realizing it. When people pour all their time and attention into their work, they're in essence killing their relationship with others (if they don't also spend some time to keep those), sacrificing it you could say. In the end they get the money but have lost those people (though they are still alive). It is the non diabolical aspect of the same thing.

While I can't talk about what God was thinking when He requested for Isaac, I do know, the future is not fixed. Every moment we live we influence it. If someone gives a bad prophecy we can work hard and change it. Being omniscient means he is all knowing, he knows the end of a particular course of action, if you act in a particular way consistently you'll get a particular result. This will be your end.

But it is our responsibility to choose which end we want. Abraham could have decided to carry on and sacrifice his son, but he didn't. There are some times when parents scare children very badly and they refuse to relate with them for a while. Most times things go back to normal.

After all Abraham didn't go through with it, and it could have been explained off as an elaborate prank. It is we who are older who begin to question the believability of our parents because we understand the meaning behind what may have happened.

Yes sacrifice is as trivial as flogging a child. Yes it is as sacred as taking a life. It is something that happens everyday, but that doesn't make it less important.

Perhaps after the event you'll become afraid when you see your dad, or anyone else hold a machete, but the relationship can be mended. But that too takes sacrifice.

kingxsamz:
Okay, so was Hitler bad?

I'll reply to this with another question, was UDHR a good thing?

uche40:

But I don't believe such endeavor serves well in a discussion that aims to establish facts.

I understand where you're coming from. Trying to speak with someone about what is happening now and here and having them be talking about things that don't seem to help is very frustrating.

But it does, doesn't it?

A perfect example would be an analogy, which helps to explain facts to those who don't understand them.

omonnakoda:
As far as topic is concerned.
if you have money and you worship a goat publicly you will still get women in Nigeria
You can marry a wife everyday of the week like Ooni of Ife

kpomkwem

NeckingNgulping:
I'm an atheist, and I found that I'm incapable of dating women who are particularly religious. I could go out on a date with a religious woman, and that's usually solely by merit of me pretending the whole time as though I'm truly in for it.

Since long term relationship with these women would have necessitated that i make pretence a hobby, logic sets in and we inevitably part ways.

In a highly religious country like ours, it's quite hard to find a woman who's an atheist as me, let alone a decent one.

It's not easy at all my brother

I have accepted the fact it's 2 things.

I'll end up not getting married or I'll travel aboard and marry outside the country.

I have no issue dating a religious woman but to marry one and bear children with her. I can't do such, it just wouldnt work.

Issues must arrive because she'll want the kids to follow her beliefs and I'd prefer my children to choose what they want to become when they grow up.

Namdio:


I understand where you're coming from. Trying to speak with someone about what is happening now and here and having them be talking about things that don't seem to help is very frustrating.

But it does, doesn't it?

In your case it didn't, as I'm still yet to get the point you tried to make in your first reply to me. Were you trying to assert that atheism is indeed a religion?

Alot of religious folks over here, I'm out

Namdio:

While I can't talk about what God was thinking when He requested for Isaac, I do know, the future is not fixed. Every moment we live we influence it. If someone gives a bad prophecy we can work hard and change it. Being omniscient means he is all knowing, he knows the end of a particular course of action, if you act in a particular way consistently you'll get a particular result. This will be your end.

But it is our responsibility to choose which end we want. Abraham could have decided to carry on and sacrifice his son, but he didn't. There are some times when parents scare children very badly and they refuse to relate with them for a while. Most times things go back to normal.

Does God know what I'll have for breakfast when I wake up later today?