Namdio:


What I find funny about comments like this is that people fail to realize that Christianity is not originally European.

Islam and Christianity have the same ancestor, Judaism. Hence Christianity is actually Asian, just like Islam.

The thing is that at it's formation Rome was in power in it's locality, so it quickly spread westward, instead of eastward.

So the same Christianity the Europeans used to subjugate Africans, someone else used to subjugate them.

Thanks for further proving my point?

uche40:


In your case it didn't, as I'm still yet to get the point you tried to make in your first reply to me. Were you trying to assert that atheism is indeed a religion?

First, yes (but more on that later). Second, I just had a point of view I wished to share, thought it was cool.

So back to the first point. Yes, I think Atheism is a religion, though not in the traditional sense of a supernatural god who they worship. An atheist's god is facts and figures.

They don't believe in supernatural and mythological gods, but they believe in facts and figures. A lot of atheist will say, they'll believe you if you can prove it with facts and figures. A lot of religious people will only believe you if it agrees with their religion. Show it to them within the confines of what they believe and you've got them.

Some, Atheist consider themselves better than others because they don't believe in things that can't be proven, but ignore the fact that there's a lot of evidence all around.

A lot of religious people consider themselves better because they refuse to believe in facts when the facts speak for themselves.

Belief in nothing, is still believe.

If I could prove to you empirically that God exists would you believe?

uche40:


Does God know what I'll have for breakfast when I wake up later today?

Answering this question involves you doing something a lot of atheist find hard doing.
You'll have to accept that contradictions exist and that they are part of life.

Yes, he does, because for him you have already made the choice. No, because you haven't made the choice yet.

And this is both at once. He both knows and doesn't know, because you both have and have not made the decision

Bro o don't problems with you being an atheist but there are proves..take a trip to Jerusalem nd see for yourself

Namdio:


I'll reply to this with another question, was UDHR a good thing?

What's that?

kingxsamz:
What's that?

Universal Declaration of Human Right

Namdio:


Now to deal with you.

It seems you don't understand the meaning of love. To love someone means to accept them even when they don't accept themselves, to let a person know, I'm with you despite what you've done. It is helping one be the best they can be. Love doesn't accept the action, but the person regardless of the action, because love knows that the person is capable of doing much more. That is what I believe God is.

Now take a look past that one moment of when the person gives you the money from killing. Let me ask, who would the person listen to more, the one who accepted his show of appreciation or the one who not only rejected his show of appreciation but punished him for it?

Don't forget the basis of this, the fact that the person believes a rejection of his offering is a rejection of himself, (you could consider the case of Cain and Abel).

Taking this even further, what if you are the highest authority? You are the one who punishes. You are the police you turn this person in to.

If and when they come out of punishment you have created an outlier in your society, a rebel, who will disobey you because he believes you have rejected him.

In the other case, the person has an opportunity to be constantly influenced by your words, because he believes that you accept him.

Now, imagine if you made laws, and these laws governed how everything worked, literally everything. And no one, not even yourself, is above these laws. This is what happened in that case.

The world works on equivalent exchange, you must give before you get. Most people give up their time in order to get money, no matter the amount. But time is not the only thing you can give. You could give up your ideas, your mind, your opinion, your body, you life and yes even the life of others. The law of equivalent exchange cannot be violated, hence if you give up your daughter in exchange for 1 million you will get it.

The thing is that this happens everyday with us realizing it. When people pour all their time and attention into their work, they're in essence killing their relationship with others (if they don't also spend some time to keep those), sacrificing it you could say. In the end they get the money but have lost those people (though they are still alive). It is the non diabolical aspect of the same thing.

While I can't talk about what God was thinking when He requested for Isaac, I do know, the future is not fixed. Every moment we live we influence it. If someone gives a bad prophecy we can work hard and change it. Being omniscient means he is all knowing, he knows the end of a particular course of action, if you act in a particular way consistently you'll get a particular result. This will be your end.

But it is our responsibility to choose which end we want. Abraham could have decided to carry on and sacrifice his son, but he didn't. There are some times when parents scare children very badly and they refuse to relate with them for a while. Most times things go back to normal.

After all Abraham didn't go through with it, and it could have been explained off as an elaborate prank. It is we who are older who begin to question the believability of our parents because we understand the meaning behind what may have happened.

Yes sacrifice is as trivial as flogging a child. Yes it is as sacred as taking a life. It is something that happens everyday, but that doesn't make it less important.

Perhaps after the event you'll become afraid when you see your dad, or anyone else hold a machete, but the relationship can be mended. But that too takes sacrifice.

Man, what are you saying? You're saying a lot of words and a lot things for a simple case.
You're just compiling different words without addressing the main issue.

How can you be called "good" when you are omniscient and you go ahead to grant the wish of someone who will end up killing a child? you're talking about rejection and bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
How can you know the future and everyone's decision but still go ahead to ask a man to murder his own child? What kind of sick test is that?

Address my point and leave out unnecessary details, or should I call them sermons?

Namdio:


Every moment we live we influence it. If someone gives a bad prophecy we can work hard and change it. Being omniscient means he is all knowing, he knows the end of a particular course of action, if you act in a particular way consistently you'll get a particular result. This will be your end.

And no, being omniscient means you know everything before it happens, even what will happen 50 years from now. What time and day someone will die.

Knowing the end of a particular course of action is something even humans are capable of. If your god can't tell what actions one will take then it's not omniscient.

Namdio:


Universal Declaration of Human Right

And what's bad about that?

Sneakytoucher:
There is something called morals which has got nothing to do with religion. Remember that.

That is unphilosophical and self defeating. There is no MORAL without the MORAL GIVER. So, how do you come about morals without God?

If the moniker could be captivating, just imagine the rest...

mariahAngel:


It's almost hypnotizing trying to count them, so I stopped bothering.



May the universe be with y'all.

Asour:


It's not my opinion. See attached.

People DO GOOD deeds but they aren't INHERENTLY good.
Only God's truly good.
I hope you don't find out the hard way.

You don’t need to quote bible for me, I’m sure everyone knows that line

What’s makes you think only God is good?
Because Jesus said it in one line in the Bible?

It’s just like when Moses called himself the meekest man in the Bible. Their opinions are irrelevant in todays world

People ain't blind na, it's expected.

Lollittaa:

My sweet sweet cooooooks, someone is asking about your moniker.

Namdio:
First, yes (but more on that later).

Please, do tell me more. This discussion just got interesting.

Namdio:
Yes, I think Atheism is a religion, though not in the traditional sense of a supernatural god who they worship. An atheist's god is facts and figures.

Before we continue, I want to remind you that this discussion we are having is framed in the context of the existence, as well as the worship of supernatural creator deities commonly addressed as gods. As I mentioned earlier, I'm looking at what is logical, and more importantly -- factual, not what might/could be.

=================================

Now, let us look at some standard definitions of Atheism:

atheism
/ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/

noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

The above definition is Oxford's. Observe the bolded phrase. Atheism is defined as LACKING belief.

A Theist would say: I have a belief in the existence of God.

An Atheist would say: I don't have a belief in the existence of God.

Here's another definition from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

"The term 'atheist' describes a person who does not believe that God or a divine being exists.
https://iep.utm.edu/atheism/

A person who "does not believe" can also be said to be "lacking belief" in the existence of a God or gods. In both events, belief is absent.

Consider this entry from Britannica:

Instead of saying that an atheist is someone who believes that it is false or probably false that there is a God, a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for the following reasons (which reason is stressed depends on how God is being conceived):
https://www.britannica.com/topic/atheism...of-atheism

Atheism begins when one is skeptical of claims made by God believers that there exists an undetectable supernatural creator, who willfully interacts with the world he created (theism in a nutshell). There are many kinds of atheists, but this is the singular idea that binds them all together. If you reject belief in something, then it simply translates to you not having it. Just in case the picture isn't clear to you yet, let's look at one common definition of Theism -- which is the opposite of Atheism:

theism
/ˈθiːɪz(ə)m/

noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.

Theism.
A-Theism.

The prefix a- signifying absence.

A-theism: without-belief in the existence of a God or gods. Therefore it doesn't even qualify to be called a belief system, talk less of a religion.

=================================

Now, given that the singular idea unifying atheists is their "lack of belief" in a God or gods, it then becomes absurd to posit spurious arguments such as: "An atheist's God is fact and figures". Sorry dear, but atheism is not synonymous with worshipping facts or figures. Have you met the spiritual atheists? They may reject theistic gods who are claimed to interact with humanity such as Yahweh and Allah, but they also believe in stuff like Karma -- and there's no facts or figures supporting such phenomenon. It's a BELIEF.

Namdio:
They don't believe in supernatural and mythological gods, but they believe in facts and figures.

For the record, when something is established to be factual by virtue of the provision of empirical evidence, it ceases to be a matter of belief and becomes a matter of knowledge. Take for example, the phenomena of thunder and lightning. In the ancient times, thunders were believed to be growling noises made by the gods because they were angry and throwing tantrums. It was a natural assumption to make because nobody really knew why thunders occurred, so the ancient people created myths to explain it alongside other "supernatural" occurrences at the time. But now we know that thunders are a result of atmospheric instability and other processes involving the buildup of electricity in moving clouds, the nitty gritty of which you can source from any reputable scientific journals on the internet.

Namdio:

Some, Atheist consider themselves better than others because they don't believe in things that can't be proven, but ignore the fact that there's a lot of evidence all around.

It's easy to claim there is evidence of something. The issue is actually presenting it. Mind you, no rational or honest individual can deny hard empirical evidence when it is presented before him/her. For instance, you'd find it mighty difficult to catch two people arguing that if you throw a cup out the window, it will just float in the air and won't go down. Everybody knows that gravity and its effects are real.

As for the bit about atheists considering themselves superior to others, I think that's an amusing statement you made. I usually hear it from Christians when they get locked into an argument with an atheist and they've manoeuvred themselves into a corner where they have nothing to say. I can't deny that humans generally are competitive in nature. We just are. We want to look and feel better than others. Personally, I can't help but feel better than a Christian when I hear him/her discussing ridiculous things like a talking donkey, or a talking burning bush etc. while keeping a straight face . If you've met any atheist who seems like a bully with a chip on his shoulder, I'd say you should blame his ego on the Christians or God believers surrounding him.

Think about it. These are people who believe that the entire universe, as gargantuan as it is, was made for them alone. The narcissism and entitlement of theists cannot be evidenced in more glaring fashion. They identify themselves as children of the Most High, All Powerful, Wondrous God, who rules over the entire galaxy. From their oh-so-glorious pedestal, they look down on atheists and spit on them, condemning them to be unfortunate simply because the atheists reject the truth. You have others looking at him with pity. To them living without God is like living on the streets with no food or shelter. Here comes Evangelism and Proselytizing. The Christian wants to "save" the atheist and win him to Christ.

The truth is that lack of belief of God never occurs to most atheists as they carry on their daily lives. What you see is simply feedback of atheists being heckled by Christians in their families, schools and offices. Understandably, the atheists can't make any sense out of the outlandish claims made by the religious adherents, and then the gauntlet is set and the request made:

Show us the evidence.

The average theist doesn't have any. All he has are speculations, logical fallacies, appeals to emotion, No True Scotmans. The more seasoned theists who encounter atheists in discussions more often weave decent arguments using sophistry and circumstantial evidence, which sounds smart to the ears, but is insufficient in proving many of the claims made by theistic religions.

Namdio:

A lot of religious people consider themselves better because they refuse to believe in facts when the facts speak for themselves.

That's a weird idea. I fail to relate and/or see how a person can think himself better than somebody else because they reject facts. I think I get what you were trying to say but you put it in a very simplistic manner. To the theists, any fact that doesn't tally with the teachings or doctrines of their Holy Bible is false, irrelevant and at best, misleading.

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
- Romans 3:4

Their Bible is the ultimate source of all things "true". One need look no further than their collective crusade against the Theory of Evolution. Then you have the flat-earthers. Have you ever wondered how many scientific facts exist that Christians believe in -- which directly contradicts their holy book? I think that's an important question right there.

Namdio:
Belief in nothing, is still believe.

No, that's just a badly dressed word salad. And I'm not hungry.

Namdio:

If I could prove to you empirically that God exists would you believe?

Which God exactly? There are many gods you know.

I know how you feel.

Thankfully, a few years ago, I was not actively seeking a relationship, so it wasn't a real issue.

You may still meet people who are religious that you would like to have a relationship with. They are most likely not going to be as willing, ceteris paribus. However, keep an open mind. Not everyone is as religious as we sometimes think is the "norm".

My advice:
- the atheism, and religiosity are not fundamental to your existence, or the existence of your possible spouse.
- be open to have a multi religious home
- seek like minded people but do not artificially limit yourself.

NeckingNgulping:
I'm an atheist, and I found that I'm incapable of dating women who are particularly religious. I could go out on a date with a religious woman, and that's usually solely by merit of me pretending the whole time as though I'm truly in for it.

Since long term relationship with these women would have necessitated that i make pretence a hobby, logic sets in and we inevitably part ways.

In a highly religious country like ours, it's quite hard to find a woman who's an atheist as me, let alone a decent one.

Even "ashawo" get "big god".

Peterrio:
Some might not be very religious, but their thought patterns are still warped in religion.

The very religious ones can even be a challenge to Christian guys

One thing that amazes me from time to time is that they can partake freely in fornication and adultery, while holding the religion very tight

Babysho:


Thanks for further proving my point?

Asian??
Abi middle eastern

All cities have sizeable non religious people.

For some girls, especially upper middle class and up, they have to remain religious while unmarried and/or in Nigeria.

Ballzproblemm:
you are just blowing grammar,make money travel out, you see many non religious people,that's your only solution ,but if na here ,then you are in for a long thing

Went through if, I don't think he blamed "god" for the lack of eligible atheist or atheist-open women in his life.

He's got to open his mind, eyes, and groups to fulfill his goal of being equally yoked.

Lollittaa:
Are you going to blame God for that too?
"if there was a God, He should have found me an atheist girlfriend to date "
Cooooooks please wipe the tears from his eyes.

Namdio:


Answering this question involves you doing something a lot of atheist find hard doing.
You'll have to accept that contradictions exist and that they are part of life.

Yes, he does, because for him you have already made the choice. No, because you haven't made the choice yet.

And this is both at once. He both knows and doesn't know, because you both have and have not made the decision

This is you just uttering rubbish to try and prove a point

emmypsv:
Bro o don't problems with you being an atheist but there are proves..take a trip to Jerusalem nd see for yourself

What proofs are there in Jerusalem??
The Palestinian and Israeli conflict??

NeckingNgulping:


You are the real one.. You only lost a bunch of indoctrinated classmates, people who are hardwired to not see reasons and facts.

Baba go find Winch Marry!!!

Off mic sir.



Add these to your repertoire (if not already there):
- if God is all knowing, then why does evil exist?
- if God knows everything is predetermined, then he has no free will.
- does God call us to salvation, in which case one's lack of salvation is God's fault; or do we have to take the step to salvation: in which case we are responsible for salvation, not god's mercy...

uche40:


Does God know what I'll have for breakfast when I wake up later today?

Love to see Nigerian atheists.

kingxsamz:


Lol, if someone I loved killed someone just to make money, I'm not only going to reject the money, but I'll reject them, and that's if I don't call the police.
But this case is totally different because the god who accepted this sacrifice is omniscient, he knows the result of the outcome and yet let it happen. He did not only let it happen but went as far as granting the request of this person.
It's like you know the future, and someone comes to you that he will kill the first person he sees when he gets home for you, if only you can give him 1 million naira, and then you go ahead to give him 1 million naira even though you know that it'll cost him his little daughter's life.
I'm sure you know how terrible this is, even if you might try to water it down...

As for Abraham and his son.
My point is, an omniscient god "requesting" that a man should slaughter his son just to prove loyalty is a very sick concept. Imagine you at 15 years and your dad tied you up and wanted to cut off your head with a machete. Even if he says a god asked him to do it, won't that experience alone change your entire relationship with your father?
It's like you think this whole sacrifice issue is like a simple case of flogging a child or shouting at them.

I give you 5 years: you will leave the religion.

Please, I beg you, READ AND STUDY the bible, the historicity of the bible, etc.

Namdio:


I know, I changed my wording because of it lol.

Yeah, I ignored them because I'm only pointing out the ones I have problem with. Yes people carried out the acts. Yes they received instructions from God to do so. To deny it would be to lie.

The Bible is a historical collection of events, these things happened in wars. It was penned down my men who are prone to painting things through their lens. We cannot know if it was truly God inspired we can only believe it.

Also, I think the asking is more important than the receiving. Permitting something because you know the person isn't ready to change their ways carries a different weight than asking someone to do it.

If someone you loved killed someone to make money and gave you a portion of it, to reject it would be akin to rejecting them, especially if they believe it their only way of making said money. You may accept it, but it doesn't mean you agree with them or what they've done.

The case would be different if you asked them to do it, wouldn't it?

As for the question I've been dancing around, I'll try to stop it if I can, but a man who is stuck in their ways won't be so easily persuaded.

The focus of the story of Abraham and Isaac should be Abraham's openness to hear when God told him to stop. Some may not hear it and go ahead and kill their son, then proceed to blame God for it, when God had nothing to do with it.

Dliquidmetal:
lmao the usual fallacies,the onus lies on he who makes a claim not the other ways round.
If its not hard to proof your gods existence then you should do that real quick but you dodging it as usual if yall and its very possible for billions of people to be deluded due to a varieties of contributing factors,the evidence is all around you(look in the mirror sef) its we(albeit few) who were lucky enough to transcend indoctrinations that suffer because the price of these knowledge/enlightenment is great.

When you learn — something holds those thoughts and things you learnt. Now, do you have a brain? Yes you do. Can you see it? No you can't. But is it functional? Yes. Can you prove it's functional? Yes! Intelligence.

Dioceseofoyo:


When you learn — something holds those thoughts and things you learnt. Now, do you have a brain? Yes you do. Can you see it? No you can't. But is it functional? Yes. Can you prove it's functional? Yes! Intelligence.

fallacy of faulty equivalent lol
You can't compare my brain to a supernatural deity who's supposed omniscient but you actually did compare it.
My brains existence and functionality can be proven and it could be physically seen if the condition necessitates it,whereas the same can not be said for your god or any gods.

Namdio:

You'll have to accept that contradictions exist

Sorry. Can't do that.

Contradictions are grammatical anomalies where a person claims that A is B and A is also not B. It's like me telling you that the owner of this forum is alive, and he is also dead. My assertion has no truth value, and is therefore bereft of any form of sense.

You are seeking to create two mutually exclusive events and insist that they are actually all-inclusive. Well, I'm not buying. It's a cop-out. Plain and simple.

I asked you if God knows what I'll have for breakfast this morning and you answered below:

Namdio:

Yes, he does, because for him you have already made the choice. No, because you haven't made the choice yet.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Free will is a logical contradiction. God is either omnipotent, or he's not. He's either omniscient, or he's not. You didn't answer my question. You just dodged to run away in silence but you knocked over a lot of stuff on your way to still bring my attention to you.

To prove the absurdity of your logic, let's imagine you in a party with your guys. You are talking to them. They're responding to you. There's communication. There's interaction. So you obviously exist. Can you simultaneously claim that you don't actually exist? That you can shake hands with your guy and not shake hands with him at the same time?

Contradictions can only exist "verbally". I can say that my shoes are purely black, and they are also purely white. However, my claim does not represent the true reality. In fact, you may start to question my sanity if I ever said such to you in real life.

cooooooks:
Off mic sir.



Add these to your repertoire (if not already there):
- if God is all knowing, then why does evil exist?
- if God knows everything is predetermined, then he has no free will.
- does God call us to salvation, in which case one's lack of salvation is God's fault; or do we have to take the step to salvation: in which case we are responsible for salvation, not god's mercy...

I'm not a guy sha.

dhardline:
Will I say Nigerian atheist or atheist in general are a funny lot. How do you desire to have a 'decent' atheist as a girl friend?
Like who are you to require a standard for her when nothing rules her?
Or do you not know God gave man commandments on how to live life and be 'decent' and once God is removed man is free to make up his own rules as he lives and nothing becomes out of place for him. So just go ahead a marry any atheist you come across, she can decide to have 10 husband's and it's not out of place, she can decide to sleep with animals and it's still not out of place for her. She is ruled by nothing just as you claim you are too and hence free to do as she wills.

Oh! You think thoes rules were created by God. It's just what's morally right. I'm an atheist doesn't mean I don't know sleeping with a dog is bad,if not for anything,the diseases I can contract. Or stealing my neighbours property is bad. As human grow and evolve,we tend to find a balance of what's right and wrong to live in harmony with ourselves. The law that holds every person in a country isn't born out of religion,it was ,out of the fact that humans needs organisation and coordination

suicidesheep:


You don’t need to quote bible for me, I’m sure everyone knows that line

What’s makes you think only God is good?
Because Jesus said it in one line in the Bible?

It’s just like when Moses called himself the meekest man in the Bible. Their opinions are irrelevant in todays world

Jesus is NOT Moses though.

VULCAN:
Where exactly do morals emanate from?

You are blissfully unaware that morals emanate from a basic understanding of the invisible aspect of life.

If men are nothing but animal meat then murder is no crime because we kill chickens and cows everyday.

While the spiritual being realises that there is a spark of divine in man, the atheist rejects this because in his blindness, man is just another animal

Don't humans kill themselves everyday?

Weren't Abraham and David praised for killing people?