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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? (40522 Views)
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Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 9:55pm On Nov 27, 2008 |
Chrisbenogor: I was waiting for this very question. Its a sad commentary on the double standard by which athiests try to force inconsistencies into the bible. By this very same standard it can be claimed that thousands of ancient documents, whose authorships are surprisingly NEVER QUESTIONED, are also suspect and thus unreliable. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by mazaje(m): 10:25pm On Nov 27, 2008 |
DavidDylan:The authors never said who they were. . . and the fact still remains that they were unknown. . . |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Chrisbenogor(m): 10:27pm On Nov 27, 2008 |
Eh no wahala when we will get to those documents we will talk about them, you need to understand I am saying the books did not originally have authors thats the point here I am not bothered yet by what they say simply put the authors are unknown. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by mazaje(m): 10:27pm On Nov 27, 2008 |
The Canonical Gospels |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 3:48am On Nov 28, 2008 |
mazaje: this is pretty daft. There are thousands of ancient documents where the authors dont specifically indicate themselves as the authors. Surprisingly no one questions authorship of the documents . . . except of course when it comes to the bible. As usual you have gone to copy and paste long tomes you dont have any idea about. I can equally paste websites specifically providing strong evidence of the authors of the gospels especially the books of Mark, Matthew and Luke. Chrisbenogor: so the books just appeared like magic without authors? you can "say" whatever you wish, you're flat out wrong. The authors are "unknown" to you because as long as they are known it puts another dent in your frustrated attempts to delegitimise the bible. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 3:52am On Nov 28, 2008 |
The funny thing about mazaje's poor copy-paste job is how disconnected it is from his earlier argument. the argument is on authorship of the gospels but his write up is on a totally different subject entirely! SOURCE! |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Chrisbenogor(m): 9:08am On Nov 28, 2008 |
What are you ranting about self david, did the authors of those books state who they were or were they deduced? |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by mazaje(m): 1:32pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
DavidDylan: See this dull and deluded bible apologist, running round to prove a point that is not true, The authors remain unknown and that is a FACT just as the authors of genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers and deutronomy are unknown. . . . when it comes to authorship the bible lacks complete credibility because all it does is lie about its authors by assingning names to stories and tales. . . . . DavidDylan: Its is very relevant what i copied and pasted clearly showed that the people that were believed to have written the books were not the people that wrote the books. . . . . . . |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 8:10pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
Chrisbenogor: Perhaps now you'll understand why i keep reiterating that most of you are either deliberately mischievous or lack the capacity to think. now how many ancient documents do you have were the authors specifically indicated they were the writers? Why do you expect that the authors of the bible ALONE and no other document of history must indicate their names before we accept they were the writers? Papias lived around the same time the gospels were written and he specifically mentions Mark and Matthew as writing gospels. He talks of Mark even being a personal disciple of Peter. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 8:11pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
mazaje: where did it "clearly show" anything about authorship? arguing with you people is an exercise for the idiot . . . anyone hoping to have an serious intellectual discourse with you is in for a shocker. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Chrisbenogor(m): 8:37pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
David I think its having an intellectual discussion with you that is difficult. I have been screaming focus, it does not change the fact that they did not have authors I do not expect anything I only say the original authors are not known how hard is that to admit! |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by mazaje(m): 8:44pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
DavidDylan: look who is talking. . . . . learn to read and comprehend and stop acting like a deranged slowpoke. . . . . . |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 11:16pm On Nov 28, 2008 |
Lady these are the things I say christians ought to know. I suppose you do not know about the document Q either and the synoptic problem of the gospels. Well I am not going to say much, I am on vacay, but I just got a new laptop so I am trying it out, all thanks to BLACK FRIDAY, HEHEHE I LOVE IT!!!! ALL THE CHEAP STUFFF WHOO HOOO!!!!!!!! Anyway, this is the reason why Sacred Tradition is really important, even thought some people because of their pride refuse to acknowledge it (Not you Chris), but the reason we know who wrote what is because of Sacred Tradition and because these writings were kept and used. They weren't just floating around. The ones that were floating around were the ones that were questioned and not included. So because Catholics (early christians) kept to what was taught to them, they knew who taught what and in what way. Each author has his own style of writing, especially to the people he was writing to. Because we know who these people were talking to and what they talked about and their style of teaching we are able to tell who taught what and where. So the writers of the gospels were very well known. Yeah some people say that the early christians weren't "organised religion" when in fact all the information we know of today was kept well because they were "organised" if they weren't "organised" we wouldn't have the info we have today. plain and simple. someone had to have documented it. their organisation may be different and considered disorganised in our day but in their day they were well organised. If everyone realised what sacred tradition is we'll able to counter people who bring up issues to try to break the faith, and bring up falsifications and non-facts just because they saw it and decided to believe it. Basically non-christians (this would be you Chris, ) and those who claim to be christians but don't know a thing about Christ and his teachings |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Chrisbenogor(m): 12:37am On Nov 29, 2008 |
@lady Lol your reply made me laugh, after many shots of vodka I hope I can make some sense, My dear I am not overtly concerned about what the message says my own is that the original authors are not and were not known simple. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by carmelily: 10:06am On Dec 04, 2008 |
Just got back from a busy week away from NL to meet these words from ~Lady~: I am done with you. music to my ears Prayers do work lol now i can go back and read up on all the action i've been missing |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 4:03pm On Dec 04, 2008 |
~Lady~: sacred tradition bla bla bla bla . . . the JEWS kept accurate records and because of them we know those who wrote what. this back-door attempt by Italians who morphed into a religion of fraud to usurp jewish history is pathetic. Chrisbenogor: You havent shown me anything to prove that you're even making a half-hearted attempt at an "intellectual discourse". you cant keep throwing meaningless words around and expect me to lap it up. What is your EVIDENCE that the writers are truly not known? You keep harping on your own poorly explained point of view even in the light of evidence that ii showed you. Smacks of intellectuall dishonesty to me. And pls tell your clueless lapdog mazaje to try another tactic. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 11:53pm On Dec 04, 2008 |
@lady Well then you must have missed my post, the point wasn't about the message. But about how it is we know that these writings truly were those of the credited authors. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 11:57pm On Dec 04, 2008 |
sacred tradition bla bla bla bla . . . the JEWS kept accurate records and because of them we know those who wrote what. this back-door attempt by Italians who morphed into a religion of fraud to usurp jewish history is pathetic. So the Jews kept the New Testament? Oga if anything, you should know that Genesis is sacred tradition. Did Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jospeh, and all write what happened to them, did they write Genesis? The Bible is sacred tradition, stay there deluding yourself. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by DavidDylan(m): 12:02am On Dec 05, 2008 |
~Lady~: what of the old testament? The Italian usurpers who call themselves catholics today wrote and kept them? Much of the New Testament was written by Jews. It stands to reason many of these people must have kept copies for themselves to preserve. ~Lady~: Whose tradition? roman catholic tradition? Why are the roma catholics so gungho about essentially Jewish history? why are they the ones now telling Jews what Genesis means? ~Lady~: Based on what facts? Stay there deluding urself. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 2:07am On Dec 05, 2008 |
what of the old testament? The Italian usurpers who call themselves catholics today wrote and kept them? uh hello those are the people that are the church, u know the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. yes that's right they described themselves as the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church. check our history and u will know or what u think the catholic church started later? ha oga abeg check history o. the church was founded by christ. the practices they had then is what we have now. for real check history. the old testament was given to us by the jews. what they had then is what we have now. seriously checking history won't hurt. Whose tradition? roman catholic tradition? Why are the roma catholics so gungho about essentially Jewish history? why are they the ones now telling Jews what Genesis means? uh hello the only tradition that there was. i'm talking about the fact that genesis was not written by adam, eve, abraham, isaac, jacob and co. and that you know their stories based on sacred tradition. sacred tradition was not started by the church. it was started by the jews. in case u didn't know christianity is a continuation from judaism. afterall we are a new israel. i'm talking about there was no bible when christ taught, and there was no bible that the apostles taught. jesus christ wasn't in the old testament. you know of him today because of what the church preserved. if the jews were able to interpret the old testament well to actually what it was saying they would all be christians today. christ was teaching them what they had turned to ordinary tradition without meaning. today they all say that the prophecies wasn't about christ. if we are to go by their interpretations none of us would be christian. so before you embark on a journey of bashing the church, bcus that's what you do best, you better think first before you stick your foot in your mouth. now carry on. Based on what facts? Stay there deluding yourself. based on the fact that genesis was not written by adam, eve, abraham, jacob, isaac. it was the stories and practices of these people that were handed down (tradition), before moses wrote about them. based on the fact that the apostles did not have a book on the gospel in hand when they were teaching about christ. they handed down (tradition) what christ taught them. based on the fact that most of their writings were not written to be scripture, but were so defined by the church, and you hold it in high regards because of the authority of the church, you think it is scripture on the authority of the church. based on the fact that scripture itself speaks against scripture alone. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Chrisbenogor(m): 12:14pm On Dec 05, 2008 |
The original authors did not say who they were. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 4:06pm On Dec 05, 2008 |
The original authors did not say who they were. Yes they did. If you were my disciple and I write a paper and you are fully aware that I wrote the paper, and you teach from that paper or you keep it as my memoir and then before your death, your disciple inherits the paper, do you and your disciple know that I wrote the paper? Also keep in mind that the Bible may have fully been compiled in 393 AD (I think that's the correct year) but discussions about the books to be included were already taking place in the first century (the apostles were still alive), so these books' authors were already know. The point I was making about the message and the style of teaching and writings is that those are also determinants of the original authors. Remember I was talking about sacred tradition. As time went on different gospels began to appear such as that of Peter, Mary, and such. But because we know the writings style and teaching style of Peter, we were able to tell which books were imposters and if infact Peter did write a gospel (which more than likely he didn't, we don't have one that is authentically attributed to him). |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Ndipe(m): 2:25am On Mar 18, 2009 |
Viable: Col. 2:16-17 Colossians 2:16-23 (New International Version) 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:16-23 |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Bobbyaf(m): 8:00am On Mar 18, 2009 |
Col. 2:16-17 I am sorry to say that you have completely missed the context of that passage. Paul wasn't addressing the seventh-day creation sabbath, but the feast days that were in themselves sabbath days. Bear in mind that there were more than one type of sabbath days. For example, there was the day of feast of the passover; the day of feast of tabernacles, etc, and each carried a particular significance to different participant. Also when Paul spoke of ", do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, " do you actually think he was addressing food in a dietary sense in terms of what we eat and shouldn't eat, and that it doesn't matter what one eats? He was addressing it from sacrificial point of view. Were you aware that there existed an offering of drink and meats, and that these were all tied in with the days of festivals? In Leviticus 2:3-4 "And the remnant of the meat offering shall be Aaron's and his sons': it is a thing most holy of the offerings of the LORD made by fire. And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baked in the oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil." Note also that Paul referred to [b]sabbath days [/b]which logically means that there were different types of Sabbaths. Most Christians have mistakingly come to believe that Paul referred to the Lord's sabbath of creation in Collosians. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Badriyyah(f): 8:53am On Mar 18, 2009 |
It's funny when Christians start attacking other Christians, i've met a lot of Catholics, and I myself decided to go to church because all the other churches were too loud. It is a church, and it worships God, and also puts faith in Jesus, why are so many people trying to throw stones at the church? This is the problem with Christianity today, you are too seperate, and believe you know what is wrong or right. . Funny enough, Nigerian churches seem to be the worst, how can 3 churches DIFFERENT be in one building? What happened to ONE God? Please, before you start jumping on Catholics, you need to sort out the other problems churches face. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Nobody: 10:14am On Mar 18, 2009 |
finally Igot it the hypocrite bobbyaff is amember of the hypocrital seventh day adventist church |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Bobbyaf(m): 7:49am On Mar 19, 2009 |
finally Igot it the hypocrite bobbyaff is amember of the hypocrital seventh day adventist church You didn't get me to do a single thing. Imagine your little brain couldn't even figure it out. Listen Chucwudi44 not choosing to tell what you desired to have known is what you call hypocracy? I thought you knew the meaning of the word. No wonder you can't even spell the word. |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by MrCrackles(m): 7:57am On Mar 19, 2009 |
Topic Na wa ooo |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Nobody: 12:23pm On Mar 21, 2009 |
there is nothing worst than ignorant and non enlightened people arguing about anything. even worse when they are arguing about christianity;a religion more than 2000 years old and you see some one about 24years old claiming almighty knowledge about it. i would rather prefer a scholar(a specialist with widened knowledge of history itself) of any religion be it islam,hindu,christianity argue together about religious issues rather than read or listen to ignorant fools with a cause!!!! |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by emmanx(m): 8:46pm On Mar 22, 2009 |
Hello! Friends Don't condem or criticize so that you will not be condemed or criticized. So all ask God whom you and I serve (I wonder if you serve God at all) is to have mercy on you all for speaking evil of his only church from century. Sorry If I may ask you WHERE WAS OTHER CHURCH WHEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS FOUNDED? I think you guess is as good as mine. Thank you all!!! |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Nobody: 2:02pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
As viee has requested, I've offered that no credible discussant can defend the Papcy from the Bible. NO? Then let's see how you connect that to the Apostles You should know that papacy is not an English word, it means Father in Faith (as the protestants call thier G.Os Daddy which is English) and the faith is in Christ. So, the Pope is the Father in the teachings of Jesus Christ. There are many epistles written by the early fathers that were not included in the Bible and the Bible comfirmed it "not all that happened were written" because the Bible will be too big epecially for the new converts. Also, this was done because education was not common so, the Church compiled that through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for new converts to see the Bible as a small piece they can easily read and digest which is needed for their salvation. Note that Christianity is beyond just been saved (i.e being born again) the fight continues to eventually make heaven Peter was the 1st Pope and was the head of the Apostles (Matt 16:15-20). he was buried in the vatican in Rome, the seat of Papacy |
Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Nobody: 2:28pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Funny enough, Nigerian churches seem to be the worst, how can 3 churches DIFFERENT be in one building? What happened to ONE God? Please, before you start jumping on Catholics, you need to sort out the other problems churches face. Badriyyah, i would like you and other NLs to check out this topic "RELIGION AND HYPOCRISY IN NIGERIA" on niraland. |
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