Twayin:

Don't y'all pentecostals go to pastors and deacons saying "pastor pray for me", if you go to them on earth here telling them to lay hands on you and pray believing that God will answer their prayers on your behalf, how much more the mother of God and all those holy people in heaven?

There are three things Pentecostals do not practice:

(a) they do not go to pastors and say: "pray TO me"; neither do they pray TO pastors. Praying for someone is not the same as praying TO someone.

(b) we can all pray for one another - but nowhere are we taught to pray to departed saints, for that is necromancy!

(c) Mary is NOT the "Mother of GOD", and you cannot the Bible never teaches such.

Twayin:

@ locoman

Don't y'all pentecostals go to pastors and deacons saying "pastor pray for me", if you go to them on earth here telling them to lay hands on you and pray believing that God will answer their prayers on your behalf, how much more the mother of God and all those holy people in heaven?

Just listen to yourself,Who is mother of which God? Jehova God?, the IAM that IAM?, who?, Mary?; If yes is your answer then iam sorry.  Any way, i pray that God will forgive you for calling Mary, whom he(GOD) created, his mother, In Jesus name AMEN

which bible did you write?

or were Isaiah, Moses, Daniel, David, Mark, James, Paul, John and the others all Catholics too?

stop getting ahead of yourselves mate, a council met and decided on what should be the right books to be in the bible, based on what had been taught in the early church up till that time. There is very little similarity between all that went on then and some people creating prayers for Mary to 'pray for them'.

even if Peter died in Rome, Jesus died in Jerusalem, why don't Christians regard Jerusalem as where the center/head of the Church should be? But NO, instead we should regard where one, just one of the Apostles died to be the center of the church? Puleeze

Peter was sent primarily as an apostle to the Jewish nation, while Paul was an apostle for the gentiles, considering that there are far more gentiles in the church today than Jews, then technically, Paul and whoever 'took over' after him (presumably Timothy) should be the POPE

Holy people in heaven indeed, Jesus taught us to pray to our Father in heaven and ask for things in His name, not through Mary or anyone.

@ebos,

ebos:

Where did Peter die? We all know that Peter moved His seat to Rome and was killed there. Since then all his successors have remained in Rome till date. Go and study how Saint Peter died and where.

Peter could have died anywhere - Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, etc. Dying in Rome did not make him the first Pope, and my concerns have been about Catholics defending HOW Peter was made Pope in the Bible. Matt. 16:13-19 did not say that Jesus tried to make Peter a Pope by moving him to Rome!

ebos:

I hope Pilgrim, Locoman, Bigfred & Co should stop telling their Pastors to pray for them.

Asking departed saints to pray for the living is necromancy - dem no tell you before?

No wahala if I pray for you. . . but na abomination if you pray TO me!  

ebos:

When we bow down in the church, it is simply a sign of respect to Mary.

Ok, I hear. I was going to post some images to show that Catholics actually BOE down to statues of Mary, since sonia11 made this statement:

sonia11:

nobody bows down to the saints and we honour mary not worshipping.

You see? So wetin we go believe - una dey bow down to Mary or NOT?

ebos:

Meanwhile, God still manifest His Presence in His Temple. Still wondering how these churches that came up yesterday even the ones I saw when the founders established them could question the power of Catholic Church who wrote the very bible they are quoting. It is surprising.

No, what is surprising is that the same Catholic Church that "wrote" the Bible has not been able to demonstrate that they know what that Bible teaches.

debosky:

which bible did you write?

or were Isaiah, Moses, Daniel, David, Mark, James, Paul, John and the others all Catholics too?

You're not serious. . you made me laff so hard water dey comot for my eyes O!

If we deny that Mary is not the Mother of God the Son made man. Then, we need to ask for forgiveness. Read John Chapter 1. Pilgrim, Bigfred, you are crossing boundary. You all need to ask for forgiveness. This is serious. it is not a sin against ebos but agains,

debosky:

which bible did you write?

or were Isaiah, Moses, Daniel, David, Mark, James, Paul, John and the others all Catholics too?

stop getting ahead of yourselves mate, a council met and decided on what should be the right books to be in the bible, based on what had been taught in the early church up till that time. There is very little similarity between all that went on then and some people creating prayers for Mary to 'pray for them'.

even if Peter died in Rome, Jesus died in Jerusalem, why don't Christians regard Jerusalem as where the center/head of the Church should be? But NO, instead we should regard where one, just one of the Apostles died to be the center of the church? Puleeze

Peter was sent primarily as an apostle to the Jewish nation, while Paul was an apostle for the gentiles, considering that there are far more gentiles in the church today than Jews, then technically, Paul and whoever 'took over' after him (presumably Timothy) should be the POPE

Holy people in heaven indeed, Jesus taught us to pray to our Father in heaven and ask for things in His name, not through Mary or anyone.

debosky
how i wish they understand, but they will block their hearts oH! God pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaase deliver the catholics from ignorance in Jesus name (Amen)

@debosky,

The only interesting thing in your post is that you have technically accepted Pope as the successor of Saint Peter. We thank God for that.

ebos:

If we deny that Mary is not the Mother of God the Son made man. Then, we need to ask for forgiveness. Read John Chapter 1. Pilgrim, Bigfred, you are crossing boundary. You all need to ask for forgiveness. This is serious. it is not a sin against ebos but agains,

eeeeeewwwooooo che! che! che! na wa oooooooo! Come ebos,when God said "lets make man in our own image and likeness", which people was he talking to?.

Which boundary? God have mercy on you.

Did you get me? Mary is the Mother of God the Son made man. Again, let us make man in our own Image - John Chapter 1 answered your question. Once you get the fact, you will accept Mary as the Mother of God.

ebos:

Did you get me? Mary is the Mother of God the Son made man. Again, let us make man in our own Image - John Chapter 1 answered your question. Once you get the fact, you will accept Mary as the Mother of God.

Okay let me ask the question the way you i think you will understand,When God asked "whom shall i send?"who answered Jesus christ, son of God abi? good!, my question now is where was Mary then?. Now because God sent Jesus to this world through a virgin called "Mary" does that qualify Mary to be the mother of God? no i don't think so,because Jesus christ (son made man) was there when ebos,me,I-man,pilgrim and Mary was created don't you thin so.
Now worry is that if you say you are Mary "mother of God" because of the fact she was used by God, then her husband Joseph should also be called the father of God, why the discrimination?Joseph tried also,if he had disvirgined her nko?

@bigfred

Jesus Foster father was Joseph. Nevertheless, Joseph didn’t play much role like Mary.

I don't get how quick people are when it comes to judging others. Why don't you live your life the way you think is better than anyone else's cos no matter what you say and no matter how critical you may be of the Roman Catholic Church, it's not going to stop me from going to MY Roman Catholic Church, and it certainly wont stop me from honouring the woman who bore the saviour of the world-MARY. So you lot can carry on judging  and saying how WRONG my religion may be. It's all good. At the end of the day, you're not God to say what's wrong and what's right. Each to his own.

kellorah:

I don't get how quick people are when it comes to judging others. Why don't you live your life the way you think is better than anyone else's

Dear kellorah,

We would simply have loved the Pope to apply that persuasion to his Vatican crew and not seek to "officially" adjudge others.

So you lot can carry on judging and saying how WRONG my religion may be.

u see, Christainity isnt a religion

but this fervent catholic confirmed catholicsm, is.

Lol, I've just realised I said that, my bad.

@ Pilgrim: I don't see the pope telling me what to do and I certainly don't see him imposing any laws for anyone to follow, especially for non-Roman Catholics.

BTW. . . .we do not worship idols. It's simply regarding symbols, as holy.

Like I said, believe in whatever you feel is best. At the end of the day, it's what you really are that matters. You may not be a church goer but that doesn't mean you won't go to heaven. Let God be the judge.

debosky:


stop getting ahead of yourselves mate, a council met and decided on what should be the right books to be in the bible, based on what had been taught in the early church up till that time. There is very little similarity between all that went on then and some people creating prayers for Mary to 'pray for them'.

Under what authority did this council convene? It certainly wasn't the Protestants or Evangelicals,neither of whom existed then.Emperor Constantine convened a council,whose product is the Bible we argue about today.Problem is,you now assert that Rome,knows nothing about the Bible.That is ludicrous.

They just decided what to include. . .sure if it was obvious what to include,why did  the Roman Emperor have to convene such an elaborate process to make such decisions.Couldn't the "early Church" have done that themselves instead of waiting for the Catholic Church? Was Constantine a model Christian?

And you probably didn't know that Marian devotion was already rife at the time and predates the Council of Nicea.Did you say "some people"?Was it not the same set of people who composed the Council of Nicea?    Without the Council of Nicea,we won't be here now talking about the Bible.

kellorah:

@ Pilgrim: I don't see the pope telling me what to do and I certainly don't see him imposing any laws for anyone to follow, especially for non-Roman Catholics.

No, I wasn't asking that you take "laws" to the Pope. Just as you're concerned that people don't "judge" others, so indeed the Pope ought to cautiously guide his "official" statements. Finito.

kellorah:

BTW. . . .we do not worship idols. It's simply regarding symbols, as holy.

Oh, I haven't as yet accused the Catholic Church of such - and this is about the 3rd time that I would have to correct that misconception.

When we get there, I'll show what's with the "regarding symbols as holy". One step at a time!

About the idols @ pilgrim, I wasn't referring to you. It's all good.


Bottom line is, the Roman Catholic Church rocks.
I don't practise ALL the things the bible tells me cos I believe it's outdated and so, doesn't reflect present time but I will always remain Roman Catholic, not just because I was brought up as one, but because I feel it's safer than any New Age church, it's been around for a long time, I haven't got a 'pastor'' who ends up driving the latest car ''Bro James got for him (ye right)'' and I sooooooooo love the hyms (kinda feels like heaven-I know it's a bit cheesy, but who cares!) No one can ever change my mind, so you lot can carry on saying all you like. Enjoy.

I keep on thanking God everyday for mmaking me a catholic, but that doesnt give me the right to criticize other churches. If you read the bible and understand very well, you will know catholics are on the right path. Praying to Mary is like talking to my mother and she always answer my prayers. I have seen so many divine miracles in catholic church and i believe God is always present in our mass.

@topic: Thick twice, be civilized, stop criticizing, are u worshiping Religion or God, What will u gain from judgiing, the bible says dont criticize, Better change your ways b4 hell boils higher for u.


Am a catholic, baptized, commune and comfirmed in catholic church, served on the alter of God for 9 years, yet i still follow my friends to other churches and i dont criticized their pastors when ever they say bad about catholics,

Religion as Roman Catholicsm is,
is a way of tryin to reach God

Christainity, is a way of life, being intune with God

Sadly, if they studied the bible well
they would understand that

There is Only ONE WAY to the Father. . . .

thru JESUS Christ.

Praying to Mary is like talking to my mother and she always answer my prayers. I have seen so many divine miracles in catholic church and i believe God is always present in our mass

how can u pray to a dead human being(whut sense is that)
and u say she answers ur prayers Gosh!!

Am a catholic, baptized, commune and comfirmed in catholic church, served on the alter of God for 9 years, yet i still follow my friends to other churches

Yet not BornAgain
im sorry Sir, but ur self righteousness no dey reach anywhere

@ To all Catholics

Where have you ever read in the Bible that Jesus or any other apostle ever dug up death body of a prophet or any other person to sanctify it and make it saint ? . But sometime ago the Pope came to Nigeria to carry out that ritual during Sani Abacha.

I need an explanation for this.

It is only in Protestant Churches that we always hear born again – Self-styled born again them. How can the so-called born again believe that the Holy ones (Mary) are (is) still dead?

It will not be surprising that we see most fake Pastors today because the bible foretold it that false prophets or teachers will rise at the end time claiming to have the truth and will turn many away from the Lord – condemning what they don’t understand because of greed. We can today find out where this prophesy has come to pass.

Instead of bashing each others beliefs, why not just leave everything for God.the ultimate judge ? If some people are doing stuff you dont
agree with, pray for them to see the light, and get on with your life. No one is the embodiment of knowledge and we dont have any right to play
God and decide whos beliefs are right or wrong.
Safe.

@wavemasta

If we do not tell our love ones who are at this moment on the wrong side of faith the truth and the danger of what they have been doing how will they ever realise their mistakes and repent? We should be our brothers keeper.

The bible says we can judge our fellow believers but we cant judge the unbelievers

locoman:

@ To all Catholics

Where have you ever read in the Bible that Jesus or any other apostle ever dug up death body of a prophet or any other person to sanctify it and make it saint ? . But sometime ago the Pope came to Nigeria to carry out that ritual during Sani Abacha.

I need an explanation for this.

Kindly show that the pope came to Nigeria to dig up a dead body. WastePipe!

I pity my fellow Christians for their folly. there are a myriad of Christian bodies and churches out there, each with their own persuasive argument. After all, all the protestants babbling here need to do is to find a determined Jehovah's Witness, and they'll be told they are on the wrong path too.

The truth is, whether or not you pray through anyone, or ask any saint for intercession, whether or not you believe in guardian angels or patron saints or in the Lord's Prayer or that the holy day is saturday or sunday, there's one LCF ( least common factor) in Christianity, and that's Jesus. I haven't met a Christian yet that doesn't worship Jesus. That alone is enough to see you through to Heaven provided you keep his comandments. Any other thing is just semantics.

AT times, i think it's cowardice and sheer stupid bigotry that propels people to make these comparisons. There are millions of Pagans out there that don't even believe in Jesus, tens of thousands of Nigerians that feel Christianity is a foreign religion. Go out there are convert these people. No matter what Christian sect he converts to, it still boils down to a soul won for Christ.

But all we get are people too cowardly to do this, dissing fellow Christians. Pitiful.

Gamine:

The bible says we can judge our fellow believers but we can't judge the unbelievers

I have much like for you. Agape and otherwise. But you, my friend, are a Bigot!

locoman:

@ To all Catholics

Where have you ever read in the Bible that Jesus or any other apostle ever dug up death body of a prophet or any other person to sanctify it and make it saint ? . But sometime ago the Pope came to Nigeria to carry out that ritual during Sani Abacha.

I need an explanation for this.

thats why you guys faith is limited. Everything catholics do is in the bible. it needs divince grace to understand the bible and i have not seen any religion that understands the bible more than catholics. I am a born again, right from the day i was baptized. I dont need to show am a born again from the way i dress, talk or walk. God knows my heart and he always answers my prayer. i dont know why so many christain decieve them selves. I have been to redemtion camp, deeper life's camp, Shiloh and many other camps and i know thats where the highest ungodly things happen btw youths. visit night of bliss, the girls there are corrupt and pretendance, the girls turn cheap when they go camps, so why claiming to be reliqious or Godly.

AT times, i think it's cowardice and sheer stupid bigotry that propels people to make these comparisons. There are millions of Pagans out there that don't even believe in Jesus, tens of thousands of Nigerians that feel Christianity is a foreign religion. Go out there are convert these people. No matter what Christian sect he converts to, it still boils down to a soul won for Christ.

If you follow developments in the Muslim world,you will notice that Christians in the Midlde East face unimaginable persecution.One thing is particularly staggering-the near total abscence of indigenous Evangelicals or Protestants in places like Iraq,Egypt or Iran.

Our Evangelical brothers could go out there and help.I want to see Mountain of Fire,Redeemed,Zoe Ministries  converting indigenes living in these horrible places.Its not enough to stay in the relative safety of the Western world and Nigeria and be ranting and raving about the evils of Catholicism.

Where were these people when the Muslim Army swept through Spain,France,North Africa and most of the Byzantine Empire?Now that the world is relatively safe for Christianity,Catholicism ceases to be Christian and becomes idolatory.

I-man,

How bodi?

I decided to take a short break from this thread; but a few things in yours caught my attention.

I-man:

If you follow developments in the Muslim world,you will notice that Christians in the Midlde East face unimaginable persecution.One thing is particularly staggering-the near total abscence of indigenous Evangelicals or Protestants in places like Iraq,Egypt or Iran.

I think it is only fair that people should keep abreast of developments in the places you mentioned. Let's take Iraq, for example. It is not a case of "near total absence" of indigenous Evangelical and Protestant efforts in those places. Most of them suffer more severely for their faith than anyone talks about as we read or hear of others.

However, there is indeed a very strong and growing Evangelical effort in Iraq. The efforts of both the 'Reformed Church in America' and the Presbyterian Church endured the tough years of Saddam Hussein, and even now they have doubled their commitment in the face of increasing persecution to reach millions of Iraqis. Education is one of their most visible efforts; and through the years other "indigenous" churches (Arab Evangelical (Presbyterian) churches, Assyrian Evangelical churches, and the Armenian Evangelical Church) have emerged from these evangelical out reaches - and they are all very active in Iraq.

In Egypt as well as Iran, there are indigenous churches there who face increasing persecutions. We hear very little of them does not mean that there is a "near-total absence".

I-man:

Our Evangelical brothers could go out there and help.I want to see Mountain of Fire,Redeemed,Zoe Ministries converting indigenes living in these horrible places.Its not enough to stay in the relative safety of the Western world and Nigeria and be ranting and raving about the evils of Catholicism.

It's not about "ranting" about the evils of Catholicism. Evangelicals have been those places - and are still very active. However, if discussing Catholicism is another term for "ranting", you only open the door wider for more "rants".

I-man:

Where were these people when the Muslim Army swept through Spain,France,North Africa and most of the Byzantine Empire?

Probably they were in the minority - hiding for fear of the same Catholic mercenaries who chased them around under every clime.

I-man:

Now that the world is relatively safe for Christianity,Catholicism ceases to be Christian and becomes idolatory.

Na wa! Why is it that Catholics like to be so self-accusative?