TMKsouth:


Shame, Morpheus is too caught up in the 'matrix'.

Sepukku:


YOu actually think I am that slow, no?

Shame.

Sepukku:


Some of the stupidest questions I have ever been asked regarding peer reviewed published journals on genetic studies. Do you know what "peer reviewed" means or do you think your uncle in limpopo has to be present during this study so he can orally relay it to you for it to be fact.

All published studies have intros which explain the details of how, who, where and at what time frame they were done. Dummy you are.

Please make sure you read the actual studies below , don't just browse through neh. You just need to click on the "DOI" \ section on the studies, there's lots of them and read through. I know its hard work for you saffers but don't worry I am here, when you are done just come back and we can discuss, neh?


https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08795

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36433881/


LMFAO,no I don't know what peer reviewd journals mean, bu I do know common sense .

Common sense tells me that any study of such magnitude would need a lot of financial backing ,and common sense tells me that no organisation or individual just goes around throwing money at such exercises without having an agenda ( interest in the outcome, be it positive or negative ). For instance Pharmaceutical companies wouldn't sponsor so many scholars, scientists etc if they were not guaranteed a favourable outcome. I doubt very much that many research * facilities want their work to conflict with their funders...just saying .

As for the uncles.... there are clear historical reasons why people like Winnie Mandela insisted on being called MaMpondo instead of Xhosa. She called herself a Xhosa wife though ( which makes sense). Before 96 , the geographical area now called the Eastern Cape province was never regarded as Xhosa- land, but there are areas where real Xhosa people are concentrated ( I'm not talking about clans here) .

So to disprove our uncle's " rumours" that we know as history , science** must be transparent and reach different sections of the area under study. For instance when we talk of HIV stats in SA, we know that from the early 2000s till date , it became compulsory for every pregnant woman in SA to take the test. This made it easy to estimate the number of infected people by province , region and district( hospital records). With one HIV positive pregnant woman , we know there's atleast one infected man out there, so publishing such numbers won't raise to many questions.

Now , I don't know what all the insults are for, and I'm surprised you didn't mention Bantu education, are you trying to get creative after 40 years of repeating the samething to yourself ? .
My uneducated, stupid self , requested for some education but here you are twerking around instead of helping me out. You're clearly passionate about this subject, you even have a thread about it , so I thought it would be easy to educate me with some of the information you picked up from your fellow academics ; atleast one published journal , out of the many you claim you went through. Just pick the one you feel did all the work and I'll do the rest myself.

Let me remind you again, this is all the information I need from you ;

1. Who or what organisation did the genetic tests of the SA population( or atleast part of the population )?
2. When was this : year or era?
3. How many people participated in this exercise?
4. How many participants from each province?
5. From the Provinces, were there results from different municipalities or one section of the province was chosen to represent the whole province?


My lazy arse can't open any links dear , and I'm broke so I don't have any wifi bundles left. So please help by simply answering the above questions ( no dancing around) . This must be before tommorow morning .

TMKsouth:
Morpheus get the hell outta here! Makoko is waiting for you.

JaceBlaze and KingCold have given you far more attention than you deserve.

Lionessza6:

Common sense tells me that any study of such magnitude would need a lot of financial backing ,and common sense tells me that no organisation or individual just goes around throwing money at such exercises without having an agenda ( interest in the outcome, be it positive or negative ). For instance Pharmaceutical companies wouldn't sponsor so many scholars, scientists etc if they were not guaranteed a favourable outcome. I doubt very much that many research * facilities want their work to conflict with their funders...just saying grin.

Lionessza6:

As for the uncles.... there are clear historical reasons why people like Winnie Mandela insisted on being called MaMpondo instead of Xhosa. She called herself a Xhosa wife though ( which makes sense). Before 96 , the geographical area now called the Eastern Cape province was never regarded as Xhosa- land, but there are areas where real Xhosa people are concentrated ( I'm not talking about clans here) .

Lionessza6:

So to disprove our uncle's " rumours" that we know as history , science** must be transparent and reach different sections of the area under study. For instance when we talk of HIV stats in SA, we know that from the early 2000s till date , it became compulsory for every pregnant woman in SA to take the test. This made it easy to estimate the number of infected people by province , region and district( hospital records). With one HIV positive pregnant woman , we know there's atleast one infected man out there, so publishing such numbers won't raise to many questions.

Lionessza6:

Now , I don't know what all the insults are for, and I'm surprised you didn't mention Bantu education, are you trying to get creative after 40 years of repeating the samething to yourself ? grin.
My uneducated, stupid self , requested for some education but here you are twerking around instead of helping me out. You're clearly passionate about this subject, you even have a thread about it grin grin, so I thought it would be easy to educate me with some of the information you picked up from your fellow academics ; atleast one published journal , out of the many you claim you went through. Just pick the one you feel did all the work and I'll do the rest myself.

Lionessza6:

Let me remind you again, this is all the information I need from you grin;

1. Who or what organisation did the genetic tests of the SA population( or atleast part of the population )?
2. When was this : year or era?
3. How many people participated in this exercise?
4. How many participants from each province?
5. From the Provinces, were there results from different municipalities or one section of the province was chosen to represent the whole province?

Lionessza6:

My lazy arse can't open any links dear , and I'm broke so I don't have any wifi bundles left. So please help by simply answering the above questions ( no dancing around) . This must be before tommorow morning grin.

JaceBlaze:


I don't think that you are slow.I KNOW that you are slow

KingCold:
And he feeds off the attention

Sepukku:


Point 1. Apparently common sense is not so common at all. There are several studies that have been undertaken on these subject matters conducted in most universities and research centers around the world including ones in South Africa and sorry to say they are not on this "grand" scale that you pupport.

Point 2 . Since you are the conspiracy theorist, please tell us what this "agenda" is seeing that the human genome project is one that spans the study of human genetic sequencing for pretty much all humans on the planet and not just your Bantu peoples.

Point 3 The pharmaceutical industry example you have mentioned has no bearing on this particular subject matter because one is primarily "profit motivated" and other is purely research based though there are some "commercial" outcomes that do occur. Case in point if you got pregnant by one of your lazy saffer boys and he denied the paternity, how is that you trust the DNA test ( the same source information from these studies) in revealing he is genetically tied to your child so you can collect child support from the state and then in the same breath dismiss a more complex examination of Human genetics.

You are really a bloc head.

@JACEBLAZE and kingcold, this is beat down you were referring to, neh! SMH



Several clans incorporated into one Xhosa grouping and therefore Xhosa peoples would be an amalgamation of these "clans/totems"




I don't know how to relate any of the above ranting with anything ahving to do with extensive studies on the genetic diveristy of humans but what I will tell you is that in this day an age it is quite easy or any scientist without looking at the physical appearance of a person determine through genetics if this person is West African, Khoisan or Ethiopian.



Insults aside, can you read? What specifically do you want me to point to you that is not stated in the "abstracts" or "main body" sections of each study. Please read the study and come back with points that you disagree with. This is how a debate is done. I have made a claim and provided you with source material to buttress my claim now come back with what you see in the source material that is a false. Your aunty and Uncles claims are not good enough.




Stop embarassing yourself Lionessza



You can afford it, Go and buy airtime. You have enough airtime to be on nairaland ona consistent basis, neh.

Lazy girl. You want me to think for you.

Lionessza6:


2. When was this : year or era?

Lionessza6:

3. How many people participated in this exercise?

Lionessza6:

4. How many participants from each province?

Lionessza6:

5. From the Provinces, were there results from different municipalities or one section of the province was chosen to represent the whole province?

Lionessza6:

Genetic research ,medical research , Agricultural research etc can be used for politics and politics and profits go together. I like that you didn't deny my Pharmaceutical industry example, which means deep down you know very well that the outcome of any research can be pre-determined by the funder even before any studies could be conducted. If the pharmaceutical industry can do it, then any organisation with vested interests in a subject matter could do the same. There's no " purely research based "here , no institution can put so much money and time into something that won't get them funding the next financial year lol.

Lionessza6:

Amampondo, Amabhaca and others have never be clans of the Xhosa nation until 1996( forced down their throats by the comrades who came back from God knows where ) . All these groups had their clans, cultural practices etc. And internarriage with Xhosa people was and to some extent is still frowned upon as they don't want " change their blood line). I mentioned Winnie because she talked a lot about this and how as a young woman she was openly chastised by her relatives and community for her marriage with Mandela because " she was destroying their nation " . Even today Mpondo women hardly ever marry what they describe as Xhosa people, and the men never do...... The uncles and aunties history at play I guess. The whole point of this paragraph is to show the importance of taking samples from different sections of a study area as this is a much more complex issue than just a family paternity issue. If truly I needed DNA samples of my run-away baby daddy and he is nowhere to be found, samples from his mother, father , brother or sister ( even if half) could be used to link my bastard to that family and ofcourse the percentages would vary.

Lionessza6:



That's my issue right there, you said several studies from several universities and research centres around the world, the question is , where did they all get their samples from and when ? DNA testing was at its infancy before the 90s, and rather less reliable than in it is now. So this "credible " research is new ?how recent?
So the research was from a small selection of people from the same area ?

Lionessza6:


You're the one embarrassing yourself here as a self- proclaimed intelligent educator of stupid, bantu educated saffas yet you can't help me by answering my simple questions. I told you I wasn't going to open any link here, and since you have gone through all the abstracts of the different journals , why not pick one thatyou find the most interesting and revealing and paste the information I requested instead of twerking around?

Sepukku:


I have helped you enough by finding and giving you the link to the studies. You want me to spoon feed you now. Lazy bum

It is incumbent on you to read and ascertain if what is in there is contrary to your position, come back and then rubbish the topic.

Your deflect debate tactic will not work.
Here is my original post to you, read it slowly,especially the bolded part.

1. Who or what organisation did the genetic tests of the SA population( or atleast part of the population )?
2. When was this : year or era?
3. How many people participated in this exercise?
4. How many participants from each province?
5. From the Provinces, were there results from different municipalities or one section of the province was chosen to represent the whole province?

You're the one who knows South African identities better than its elders , so please educate me by answering the above( i think that will be easy for a super intelligent guy like yourself ) . I do not open links on nairaland.

Sepukku:


Your issue of sample sizes, bias and limitations have been factored in. They were way ahead of you on that one.

Read!

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003309

Sepukku:


What are you on about here? State your position clearly. You are all over the place. Are you saying that what we know as Xhosa peoples today carry a predominance of Khoi ancestry in them and are therefore predominantly Khoi?

My position stands as this

studies continue to indicate that Bantu populations across South Africa carry an average of 25% Khoi ancestry in them and this includes the Xhosa who are a "bantu' speaking peoples as a whole. These same studies indicate that the colored populations of the cape carry a higher degree of Khoi ancestry in them at levels up to 40-60%. The inference on this information would indicate that the coloreds are more Khoi than any Bantu populations that have been tested.

and the spirit instructed the prophet READ!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23516368/

PS just out of curiousity, when you quizzed your uncles and aunties

what language did the AmaMpondo speak before joining the Xhosa nation?

What language did the abaThembu speak before joining the Xhosa nation?

What language did the Amabhaca before joining the Xhosa nation.

Sepukku:


The results of a scientific study cannot be "predetermined." The data that is produced is the data that is produced.
A hypothesis is the only part of a scientific study that is proposed. it is a pre-ference as opposed to "in-ference" upon data that is produced.

What is stupid about your argument is that most of these studies actually lend credence to an early arrival of bantu groups into Southern Africa before European arrivals. They however also confirm varying degrees of admixtures amongst various groups that encountered each other.


READ!

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1801948115

Sepukku:


Stupid question. The studies provide dates that studies were held with specific references to the names of who conducted them and site referencing as well.



Stupid question. The links provide sample data, picture diagrams, graphical representations of tests with standard deviations e.t.c. You need only click on them.



Another Stupid question.


Stupid question.

Lionessza6:


Then post it here as I requested before , why is this so difficult for you. I told you I won't click on any link, it's like you're deliberately elongating this debate or argument. Post the info I requested, you've already said that I'm incapable of reading such complex reports with my saffa small brains, why then don't you help me out by copying and pasting from your links , the specific info I asked for ? I mean you have been copying and pasting the same comments about SA for close to a 100 years now on this forum, so this can't be too much ask for.

Lionessza6:


Attempting to twist my words again to claim fake victory?
No I never said Xhosa people were predominantly San, but yes there are fractions who are the same way that there arealso a lot of those predominantly Bantu

Lionessza6:

My position is that there are also a lot of inbetweeners * who are neither predominantly Bantu nor san ( with 40/60) . And a lot of the

Lionessza6:

Xhosa's I know who took this genetic test, also had other bloodlines like nilotic and Batwa ( pygmies). So you get people with 35% san ancestry , 55% bantu and then the rest made of different bloodlines with some even having European blood( although rare). Note that , this is from my small circle of friends and family and I'm in no way saying these results represent the entire Xhosa nation with all her clans.

Lionessza6:
The point is that different clans and regions can never give out the same genetic results in a place like the Eastern Cape because this is arguable the most generically diverse part of the country( amongst Native Africans). So the only results I'd accept are those that have covered all different clans or atleast districts ( with a significant number of participants).

Lionessza6:

There is a language called IsiMpondo, it sounds like a mixture of Ndebele, Xhosa and Zulu.There is isiBhaca which sounds more like Isiswati( they have no clicks). And then there's Isihlubi which sounds like a a mixture of isi Zulu, Sesotho and IsiXhosa.

Lionessza6:

There is a reason why Xhosa teachers were sent to these regions in the early 90s( most of the students there couldn't write the language ). And even today some still struggle to even speak convincing Xhosa without sounding odd,especially the older generation.

Lionessza6:

AbaThembu are a Xhosa clan and they speak IsiXhosa and their customs reflect that as well unlike the above 3 groups. AmaBhaca even have Marks on their faces, this traditional practice is practiced by a faction of the Zulu population but none amonowg Xhosa people.

JaceBlaze:
Sepukku is in trouble...AGAIN!!!

Lionessza6:



If I'm going to trial for the murder of my husband and I'm know I'm guilty, and I have enough connections and money to make sure that the outcomes of the court case are favourable to me. The judges, prosecutors and my legal team ( who are all in my payroll) could play opposing sides in the court even going as far as painting me as exposing my alduteress lifestyle. But at the end of the day, they have all been paid to make sure I get a lighter sentence or get away with the crime completely . That's what I meant by " predetermined ".

Lionessza6:


Only retarded Eauripens and a few dunderhead Africans would believe the 1900s published journals supporting the empty land theory . That's why in the 60s they shifted goalposts and came up with the " only the Khoe-San were here , and they were only in the Western " . Ofvourse, they are now on sparsely populated adding Xhosas and Swatis in the mix , soon enough they will revise it to add the dreaded AmaZulu . So don't entice me with that rotten fish . Khoe-San lineage goes as far as East Africa and we are supposed to believe that other pastoralists didn't wonder down South for centuries until Europeans came here ? Rubbish .