italo:

1000 words, zero meaning!

Image123:

Webster's Bible Translation
And saith to him, Every man at the beginning presenteth good wine; and when men have well drank, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Bible in Basic English
And said to him, Every man first puts out his best wine and when all have had enough he puts out what is not so good; but you have kept the good wine till now.

How this keeps recurring's beyond me. Don't people ever consider the option that 'drunk' in the verse may be past participle abi wetin be that word my english teacher dey talk? "have well drunk" is different in meaning from "are well drunk" especially if context is played. Well sha, i no ready make people dey blaspheme on my head, let me step aside.

Image123:

i've always wondered, what gets people personal and irate when defending alcohol or saying no to tithes?

Image123:

i've always wondered, what gets people personal and irate when defending alcohol or saying no to tithes?

Pastor Kun:

@Image123
People get irate whhen issues of alcohol and tithes are being discussed in reaction the a glaring, obviously and fraudulent manipulation of scriptures designed to control people's lives by people we are supposed to trust with the truth of God's word. It personally angers me when a man who claims to be serving God (like you and Olaadegbu) wilfully twist the word of God to suit your primordial sentiments.

Pastor Kun:

@Image123
People get irate whhen issues of alcohol and tithes are being discussed in reaction the a glaring, obviously and fraudulent manipulation of scriptures designed to control people's lives by people we are supposed to trust with the truth of God's word. It personally angers me when a man who claims to be serving God (like you and Olaadegbu) wilfully twist the word of God to suit your primordial sentiments.

OLAADEGBU:

You have a good point there. The jury is still out on that. I just perused the website you suggested some time ago and realised a well balanced study on whether Jesus Christ by His teaching and example sanction the use of fermented wine or not.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/4.html

Image123:

Heeeey, bro. Thanks for rebringing up that link, reminiscent. People get memory for nl sha!

Pastor Kun:

@Olaadegbu
As someone rightly pointed out earlier, you are fond of writing several words of meaningless value. I would rather you explain to us why men who claim to serve God like you establish doctrines based on fraudulently manipulating the scriptures? Why would you rather panel beat scriptures to suit your delusions rather than accept it for what it is?

Tonye-t:

It shouldnt get you angered. Common sense shows folks are not meant to agree on everything especially when issues are perceived on individually basis.

The man who eats meat should not look down on the one who doesnt eat. - Rom.14:3

OLAADEGBU:

You are right that everyone is entitled to their own conviction but when folks use Scripture to justify their own habits especially when they accuse Jesus Christ of creating alcohol that could get celebrants drunk then they have crossed the line. It is my summation that Jesus did not teach or sanction the use of alcohol in any way or form.

italo:

None of you has explained to us how people were getting "drunken" during the Lord's Supper in 1Cor 11: 21.

Was it Juice that was getting them drunk?

Thelstan:

+1

@Tonye-T:
Jesus did not force the wine down anybody's throat. It is the duty of every adult to observe moderation. God will not enforce moderation for us because we're not zombies.

Tonye-t:

Pastor Kun:

@Italo
These hypocrites would refuse to address the 1 corinthians issue you raised as it would expose them to be manipulators of scripture. It's so damn obvious that biblical wine is alcoholic yet this clowns keep going to extents to force their delusions into the scripture. I have been asking ola and image to also address luke 7:33-34 for years now neither of them has even attempted to address it rather they evade the issue as it exposes them as liars.

OLAADEGBU:

Lets see what a reputable Bible commentator says about the dangers of alcohol:

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." -- Proverbs 20:1

When someone is in-toxic-ated, he is "poisoned."  The body protests with confused thinking, slurred speech, and impaired vision, memory and judgment.  The victim vomits.  The next day his head throbs with pain, yet he still drinks the poison.  Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been maimed on the roads by drunk drivers, yet the world cannot bring itself to say, "Don't drink."  It can only say "Don't drink and drive."  This is because alcohol is the only enemy man has succeeded in loving.  It destroys his liver, heart and kidneys.  It gives him high blood pressure and causes blood vessels to burst in his skin.  It leads him to beat his wife and abuse his kids.  It will eventually destroy his ability to enjoy the intimacies of the marriage bed.  Yet he still drinks.

He thinks alcohol is a "stimulant."  In truth, it is a suppressant that reduces his inhibitions.  It dulls the naggings of his conscience so that he can commit intimate and other sins that he couldn't indulge in while sober.  A man who gives himself to the demon of alcohol becomes a slave to its addictive properties.  It mocks him.  It steals his dignity.  It takes control of his will.  Whoever is deceived by it (and there are millions) is not wise.  See Proverbs 23:29-35

italo:

Now let's see what Jesus had to say:

Luke 7:33,34: "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners".

italo:

And St. Paul: 1Cor 11:20,21: "So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk".

italo:

These verses show that Jesus drank alcohol, so did the apostles and early church during the "Lord's supper ( mass), so do we today.

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that "they" called Jesus a glutton and drunkard does not mean at all that He was either one, any more than John the Baptist was demon-possessed. He was "a friend of tax collectors and sinners", because He had come "to seek and to save that which is lost" (Luke 19:10), and this was the fallacious basis of the accusers' ridiculous charge.

italo:

They said you were a hypocrite and a liar. What they didn't say was that you were a very shameless one. Have you no fear of God?

italo:

The called him "friend of publicans and sinners" because he feasted with publicans and sinners.

italo:

They called him "glutton" because he ate food.

italo:

They called him "drunkard" because he drank alcohol.

italo:

Nobody calls a man 'drunkard' if the've only seen him drink water or tea or juice.

italo:

And maybe you should tell me what the "bolden" imply to you. I have told you what I derived from the verses.

italo:

So what is the 'Lord's supper' and what is the 'Mass'?

mazaje:

Luke 7:33,34: "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners".

@ OLAADEGBU What was Jesus drinking when the people called him a drunkard?. . .

OLAADEGBU:

What Jesus was drinking should be the least of your worries, as Jesus is still seeking for your lost soul.