mazaje:

Even you don't know whether Jesus existed or not. . you only BELIEVE he existed and that's where it ends. . It begins and ends with BELIEF. . .

mazaje:

He asked you a simple question. will you answer it or not?. . .Again. . .What was Jesus drinking when the people called him a drunkard?. . .

Thelstan:

That's rather straightforward though. Jesus drank alcohol and so they called him a drunkard. John was a wild man of the spirit, eating locusts and wild honey and spreading the gospel without any concern for mundane affairs; and so they would call him a demon-possessed person.

OLAADEGBU:

Don't be too quick to identify yourself with Paul.  Paul corrected Peter and I don't see how that makes Paul an accuser of the brethren.

Since you believe that Jesus drank alcohol because His accusers called Him a drunkard, do you also believe John the Baptist was demon-possessed because his accusers labelled him so?

mazaje:

Use the bible as an excuse . . . Are you kidding me?. . .

Thelstan:

The thread has been taken over by ad hominem posts.

Nothing more to see here.

mazaje:

Sure not me alone, other christians saw it as well. . .What was Jesus drinking when the people called him a drunk?. . .The fact that you don't want to answer it says a lot. . .

dalaman:

OLAADEGBU, what was Jesus drinking when the people called him a drunkard, can you answer please?

OLAADEGBU:

Don't you want to know what Jesus ate before they labelled Him a glutton?

dalaman:

If you aren't going to answer then its fine by me. I just asked a simple question, will you answer it or not? As for what Jesus ate I believe he ate food, you can only label a person that eats a glutton not a person that smokes or laughs, right?

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that "they" called Jesus a glutton and drunkard does not mean at all that He was either one, any more than John the Baptist was demon-possessed. He was "a friend of tax collectors and sinners", because He had come "to seek and to save that which is lost" (Luke 19:10), and this was the fallacious basis of the accusers' ridiculous charge.

Thelstan:

@Olaadegbu

You should take a ride on a Ferris Wheel someday, if you've never.

I think you'll love the thrill.

mazaje:

Even you don't know whether Jesus existed or not. . you only BELIEVE he existed and that's where it ends. . It begins and ends with BELIEF. . .

OLAADEGBU:

Watch how the rascal bit the dust in this short musical video. You will see how Bacchus the alcohol demon was the first one to bite the dust in the pub (beer parlour).

[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_UO8wlZymM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1[/flash]

Thelstan:

@Olaadegbu:

I've known the Carman's song for years but this is my first time seeing the video. Thanks for sharing.

Thelstan:

Did you notice? He said "You demon of alcoholism" not "demon of alcohol"

Thelstan:

Until you see that alcohol is not the problem but alcoholism is, then

OLAADEGBU:

Drinking alcohol may be lawful for a Christian but it is not expedient.

gotizsata:

@Image123
if you believe in witchcraft, then it is true for you, it does not make it true.

please keep that in mind.

come on, lets switch this debate one level higher, stop dragging us into just weak, meaningless quibbles, if you have something challenging, thought provoking, please use this are a forum to explore that. Otherwise, spamming us with cheap, poorly thought ideas is just a waste of everyones time, including yours.

engage us

Image123:

If you need an engagement, get a spouse or get a job. Witchcraft exists, you can drink pure water to that.

gotizsata:

@Image123
if you believe in witchcraft, then it is true for you, it does not make it true.

please keep that in mind.

come on, lets switch this debate one level higher, stop dragging us into just weak, meaningless quibbles, if you have something challenging, thought provoking, please use this are a forum to explore that. Otherwise, spamming us with cheap, poorly thought ideas is just a waste of everyones time, including yours.

engage us

[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKRV6Mpm6cw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1[/flash]

One peaceful afternoon I picked up from my mailbox the strangest looking letter I'd ever seen, a chilling little envelope bordered with flying bats, and eerie serpents whose eyes were tinted green. The letter was addressed to me so as I opened it I froze. What I read turned my complexion three shades of blue. It said, 'My name is Isaac Horowitz. I'm a male witch, a warlock and I feel I need to spend some time with you.'

Now as a Christian from a little church with God's call on my life, a man of faith and power with a challenge to grow I did what any saint would do in my situation. I tore it up said, 'Lord, no way I'm gonna go.' Then gently and methodically the Holy Spirit spoke and reminded me we're God's voice to our nation. It's the church's responsibility to witness, so reluctantly I accepted this witch's invitation.

He had the house you'd expect, the old English cottage, a 'Nightmare on Elm Street' special right to the core, the overgrown ivy, the gate that creaked when opened, somehow you'd expect Freddy to answer this door. The doorbell rang, a hollow gong, the knob twisted then opened, and Isaac stood before me with a grin. His jet black hair and well trimmed beard flowed with his black silk clothes. My skin crawled as he said, 'Please come on in.'

His house was filled with every occultic symbol you could fathom; Hanging pentagrams and horoscope signs, a Ouija board and dungeons and dragons game set on the table, a crystal ball with an incandescent shine. Then graciously he handed me some steaming herbal tea. Its presence caused my memory to jog, I thought of every horror flick I'd seen when I was a kid and thought 'man if you drink this stuff next day you'll be a frog.'

Then he led me to a high backed chair as he meticulously began to unfold his scenario with evil patience. I was given a giant leather bound book jammed with newspaper clippings, thus the reason for this witch's invitation. With eagerness he pointed to each article with pride. He said, 'I healed this woman through a Babylonian chant; You see this man, I cured him while performing druid worship; I was paid to curse this man with AIDS by his aunt.'

On and on, page after page, delightfully he flaunted each incident for an hour without a breath. He said, 'Do you realize through my understanding of the dark regions that I can make you rich or even curse someone to death?' I sat literally intimidated by his immensity in demon power while his face shone with a satanic arrogant bliss. Then placing his hands on the arms of my chair and leaning into my face he said, 'What can your God do to compete with this?'

I knew then how Moses felt, when his rod turned to a serpent and the three Egyptian magicians did the same. It's as if you're sitting there in that stunned moment while your faith gets violated and all you feel is weak, powerless and lame. I desperately and deeply prayed saying, 'Jesus give me wisdom - I don't want to put you through some foolish test. Then a shaft of light shot through my soul igniting my eyes with fire. God stood me up and I threw the book back in his chest.

I said 'Isaac, I'll not compare God's miracles versus Satan's - the issue's not God's kingdom and Satan's lair. The real comparison is the condition of your soul and the condition of mine, and you puppet of the devil, that I will compare. I said, My friend, one day they're coming for you - the soft associates in your incantations - the friendly demons you think you now control. The time will come when you'll be lying in bed wheezing like a dying animal and those spirits lay claim to the rights they own to your soul.'

'Then the room will grow dark, and the most hideous evil faces you ever seen will come flaming out of the floor with a yell! The vile informants that promised reincarnation will claw your spirit and victoriously drag your soul to hell!'

Then I grabbed the book and said, 'In that moment which mantra, which incantation you gonna chant to tell them to leave you alone? I said, My friend, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what I would say, 'I'm bought with the blood of Jesus! Let me go!' '

I said, 'Isaac, when you tossed that book in my lap, you gloated with a sinister victory. You rejoiced when you saw your name in black and white. Now I rejoice, but not that your counsel of demons are subject to Jesus, but that my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life!' Then Isaac jumped up from his chair and screamed, 'You must leave now!' I said, 'I will, but one last obligation - Next time think twice before you rumble with a man of God!!! And by the way thanks for your,  uhh,  witch's invitation.

Image123:

But i know mr, i know. I believed and then i saw. If you can believe, you too can see. Tell me, what do you think Jesus drank, Heineken or Star extra lager?

debosky:

Ola who informed you that Bacchus is the 'alcohol demon'? Is this something you gleaned from the bible or you received this by divine revelation?

debosky:

What do you think Jesus drank?

debosky:

PS - from a 'straight forward understanding' wine is as much fruit of the vine as juice is - they originate from the vine.

debosky:

However, it does appear from the translation of the Greek that Jesus appeared to be speaking only of freshly pressed juice when talking about the Lord's Supper.

debosky:

This is quite separate from the feast of Cana where a different word 'oinos' is used, which generally (but not exclusively) refers to 'alcoholic' wine.

debosky:

In my view, people of either persuasion shouldn't feel a need to force their own interpretations on everyone else.

debosky:

If you feel it was alcoholic, good for you. If you don't, then good for you.

debosky:

Whether or not Jesus made 'alcoholic' wine or drank 'alcoholic wine' takes nothing away from His Deity and His saving power through the cross.

OLAADEGBU:

My Chambers Dictionary informs me that Bacchus is the god of wine. Have you got another word for it?

It is not what anyone of us think that matters but what the Truth book says.

And what's the difficulty of calling it wine instead of the fruit of the vine?

And why do you think folks today use alcoholic wine for their Eucharist or Holy Communion?

Oinos is used for both fermented and unfermented wine.

The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart. Folks will always want to use the Scriptures to justify their addictions.

Whatever we feel doesn't change the fact of the matter.

It does if we begin to accuse Jesus of disregarding Habbakuk 2:15

Image123:

But i know mr, i know. I believed and then i saw. If you can believe, you too can see. Tell me, what do you think Jesus drank, Heineken or Star extra lager?

Pastor AIO:

All these pages just because by force by force Olaadegbu says that Jesus must not drink alcohol.


I need to start a thread about interpreting scriptures and the principles underlying it, but I fear that there'll be no interest in it.

mazaje: Luke 7:33,34: "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners".

@ OLAADEGBU What was Jesus drinking when the people called him a drunkard?. . .

Sorry, i prefare u read it from verse one to understand how these words are used even when there is no drink in the occassion/event.