@ i_DO, Tenkobe, musKeeto, 9icelag, dagboss, Hustle, RealTruth, Lecanno, Cautious, Sovpounds, saxywale, felifeli, debrief08, hercules07, numo86, Tunjman, karpenter YOU ARE ALL BLESSED NOT ONLY WITH TRUTH AND REVELATION OF GOD'S WORD BUT ALSO WITH THE MIND OF CHRIST. And to our other christian brothers and sisters who doesn't share same view with us, YOU ARE ALL BLESSED TOO.

I will like to point out here that none of the people mentioned above including me are anti-Christ nor are we anti church as church is Christ's institution and place of worship to the Most High God who had redeemed our sinful nature through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; but we are anti-religion(True religion to God does not neglect the poor, orphans, those who are hungry, judgment and love as Christ loved us) and religious people who, having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof and obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. We share the light of the biblical truth. When the word of God says: Romans 12:2: Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will (New International Version), it’s talking about the same thing in Philippians 2:5, Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. It's talking about attitudes and same character as if it were Jesus Christ. We can read other translations for more understand. I HOPE WE START BIBLICAL STUDY OF TRUTH HERE ON NAIRALAND SOON SO AS TO LIBERATE THE MINDS OF OUR FELLOW CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN LOVE.

I just read what Adeboye himself said: I quote and amplify

http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/index.php/news/29721-adeboye-urges-nigerians-to-seek-god%E2%80%99s-face.html

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
It is amazing that the so called God’s people (religious people) are the same wicked people in wicked ways and activities. God respects His word and principles, not persons. He loved us as sinners but hate our sins and wickedness that has plagued our land Nigeria.

Now in the light of Adeboye’s word, I guess we should question or will love to start reading about Redeemed Christian Church of God and other big churches in Nigeria taking responsibilities along side with the government. They should also start sacrificing for the orphans, poor, unemployed rather than flying in private jets and also taking responsibilities to participate in moving our dear country forward rather than all this yearly gathering and noise, am not condemning these gatherings, they are good as I also attend here in United States where I reside. But we should also start to see actions as to how their large congregation contributes to national development. Religious people obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. God will help those who help themselves, meaning we all, including these churches and so called men of God have to take responsibilities, sacrifice, work hard and think right as the preacher (Adeboye) had said.

musKeeto:

Nothing new. All Im getting here is threats. No bible verse to back that threat up?

Who dey threaten you? have you started seeing ghosts already?

Thi :Ps garbage dump eating, na so e dey take start o!

goshen360:

@ i_DO, Tenkobe, musKeeto, 9icelag, dagboss, Hustle, RealTruth, Lecanno, Cautious, Sovpounds, saxywale, felifeli, debrief08, hercules07, numo86, Tunjman, karpenter YOU ARE ALL BLESSED NOT ONLY WITH TRUTH AND REVELATION OF GOD'S WORD BUT ALSO WITH THE MIND OF CHRIST. And to our other christian brothers and sisters who doesn't share same view with us, YOU ARE ALL BLESSED TOO.

I will like to point out here that none of the people mentioned above including me are anti-Christ nor are we anti church as church is Christ's institution and place of worship to the Most High God who had redeemed our sinful nature through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; but we are anti-religion(True religion to God does not neglect the poor, orphans, those who are hungry, judgment and love as Christ loved us) and religious people who, having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof and obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. We share the light of the biblical truth. When the word of God says: Romans 12:2: Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will (New International Version), it’s talking about the same thing in Philippians 2:5, Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. It's talking about attitudes and same character as if it were Jesus Christ. We can read other translations for more understand. I HOPE WE START BIBLICAL STUDY OF TRUTH HERE ON NAIRALAND SOON SO AS TO LIBERATE THE MINDS OF OUR FELLOW CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN LOVE.

I just read what Adeboye himself said: I quote and amplify

http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/index.php/news/29721-adeboye-urges-nigerians-to-seek-god%E2%80%99s-face.html

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
It is amazing that the so called God’s people (religious people) are the same wicked people in wicked ways and activities. God respects His word and principles, not persons. He loved us as sinners but hate our sins and wickedness that has plagued our land Nigeria.

Now in the light of Adeboye’s word, I guess we should question or will love to start reading about Redeemed Christian Church of God and other big churches in Nigeria taking responsibilities along side with the government. They should also start sacrificing for the orphans, poor, unemployed rather than flying in private jets and also taking responsibilities to participate in moving our dear country forward rather than all this yearly gathering and noise, am not condemning these gatherings, they are good as I also attend here in United States where I reside. But we should also start to see actions as to how their large congregation contributes to national development. Religious people obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. God will help those who help themselves, meaning we all, including these churches and so called men of God have to take responsibilities, sacrifice, work hard and think right as the preacher (Adeboye) had said.

Well said! and God bless you.

Now, let me address the issue of private jets and community service. Im very much close to the leadership of the RCCG and without giving out too much details, i would want to let you know that the generalization of all men of God lavishing on riches and flying about in jets without helping their immediate communities is uncalled for. Is everything right in the church(rccg in focus) answer is no. Does the leadership have foresight and a clear vision as to how they want the church to affect the lives of the populace in this country. Answer is yes. If i may ask do you know how many parishes the church has world wide? Hmmm, wont say much, Now in a couple of months Dgo will be clocking 70 and every parish in the rccg wants him to come and hold crusades, ordain new pastors, hold conventions and congresses, Open new parishes and lots more all over the world, If you are a frequent traveller, you will know how tough it is to travel to and fro Naija without the hassle and bussles of immigration, The purpose of aquring the jet is not to play around, But to aid the work he is doing for God,

See it as you may, but this same man refused to purchase on of these in liew of what people would say when he could have had it a long time ago. You wont be traveling to 24 countries within two to three weeks and not nearly die of stress, trust me when you can afford what will ease you travels. The motive that everyone has for obtaining what they use is different and should never be generalized.

Now if you are opportuned to be close to the church administratively, you will notice that Dgo has instituted a programme called "Social Corporate Responsibility" that every Province within the church naming system is mandated to embark upon and monthly reports are given to the leadership to ensure that every parish caries out their quota, You may not have benefited, but surely people are and those that do can testify to that, Again do you know that a certain percentage of school fees for all missionaries(workers,pastors, et all ) is being paid by Dgo? Do you know how many peeps are on scholarships, Have you heard about "Heritage home" where orphans are being cared for and educated, ? The amenities that people on the camp ground enjoy for relatively free is financed by? Do you know how many Pastors are employed and paid worldwide?

Like i said, i am most grateful to God to be close to the leadership of this God ordained institution and if i did not know or experience better, i would probably join the band wagon of criticism, Now regardless of all said, there is no perfection anywhere and there are challenges even in the church, There are wrongdoings, lies, fraud and all going on, Do we know say that it is this Individual or that individual that is committing these atrocities,

Honestly i could go on all day, but seriously lets be objective, This is not about quoting bible passages but by doing practical things, setting examples that can be applied to everyday life.

I cant say much about other religious institutions cos i don't know what goes on there, but surely i wont condemn or rather its not in my place to condemn anyone or institution without knowing the real facts,

You may not necessarily agree with all i have said, but i have only tried to clarify some issues that some may not know. I pray we all succeed and join hands together to move this great country forward with the help of God.

Jencejyde

I have these questions:

1. The people who gave us xtianity and the old churches like Catholic and Anglican all have open books. Why not RCCG?

-How much is Go collecting as salary (minus gifts of course)?
-How much are the pastors paid?
-Who agreed these things?
-How much is given to charity?

2. What has RCCG done about the traffic situation wasting time and indirectly causing havoc. The money is there to get a a permanent solution.

Why must other people be stressed and put in agony because some people are going to visit church, everybody knows what they are going for? some people go to kidnap wandering kids, some to steal, some to get hansome husbands

3. Why is there no question and answer session between the heads of the church and the members and public?

Even Jesus/God took questions.

4. Why do pple have to give specific amounts? Why not as their hearts purposeth like in the bible?

In RCCG, they have levels of giving like

1-5million naira
5-10million naira
etc.

5. Why not donate to existing unis and schools instead of building new ones?

Is it a selfish way  OF IMMORTALISING THE G.O.'s name disguised as educational contribution ? I thought this world will pass away. Just asking, NO OFFENCE.

6. Since RCCG is close to the govt. why not lobby for power and pray that the generator importers/PHCN BRIBE TAKERS will be destroyed so there can be light and the economy can explode?

7. What is RCCG doing about jobs? the money is there. the money for private jet could have established a small company that will employ jobless youths who in turn will not go into armed robbery where they will kill and r.ape someone's wife/daughter who could have become a xtian or powerful RCCG choir member?

just asking harmless questions.

Jencejyde:

Well said! and God bless you.

Now, let me address the issue of private jets and community service. Im very much close to the leadership of the RCCG and without giving out too much details, i would want to let you know that the generalization of all men of God lavishing on riches and flying about in jets without helping their immediate communities is uncalled for. Is everything right in the church(rccg in focus) answer is no. Does the leadership have foresight and a clear vision as to how they want the church to affect the lives of the populace in this country. Answer is yes. If i may ask do you know how many parishes the church has world wide? Hmmm, wont say much, Now in a couple of months Dgo will be clocking 70 and every parish in the rccg wants him to come and hold crusades, ordain new pastors, hold conventions and congresses, Open new parishes and lots more all over the world, If you are a frequent traveller, you will know how tough it is to travel to and fro Naija without the hassle and bussles of immigration, The purpose of aquring the jet is not to play around, But to aid the work he is doing for God,

See it as you may, but this same man refused to purchase on of these in liew of what people would say when he could have had it a long time ago. You wont be traveling to 24 countries within two to three weeks and not nearly die of stress, trust me when you can afford what will ease you travels. The motive that everyone has for obtaining what they use is different and should never be generalized.

Now if you are opportuned to be close to the church administratively, you will notice that Dgo has instituted a programme called "Social Corporate Responsibility" that every Province within the church naming system is mandated to embark upon and monthly reports are given to the leadership to ensure that every parish caries out their quota, You may not have benefited, but surely people are and those that do can testify to that, Again do you know that a certain percentage of school fees for all missionaries(workers,pastors, et all ) is being paid by Dgo? Do you know how many peeps are on scholarships, Have you heard about "Heritage home" where orphans are being cared for and educated, ? The amenities that people on the camp ground enjoy for relatively free is financed by? Do you know how many Pastors are employed and paid worldwide?

Like i said, i am most grateful to God to be close to the leadership of this God ordained institution and if i did not know or experience better, i would probably join the band wagon of criticism, Now regardless of all said, there is no perfection anywhere and there are challenges even in the church, There are wrongdoings, lies, fraud and all going on, Do we know say that it is this Individual or that individual that is committing these atrocities,

Honestly i could go on all day, but seriously lets be objective, This is not about quoting bible passages but by doing practical things, setting examples that can be applied to everyday life.

I cant say much about other religious institutions cos i don't know what goes on there, but surely i wont condemn or rather its not in my place to condemn anyone or institution without knowing the real facts,

You may not necessarily agree with all i have said, but i have only tried to clarify some issues that some may not know. I pray we all succeed and join hands together to move this great country forward with the help of God.

YOU HAVE SPOKEN WELL LIKE A TRUE CHRISTIAN UNLIKE OTHER MEMBERS OF RCCG WHO COME HERE TO ELEVATE PST ADEBOYE WITHOUT A REASONABLE THING TO SAY. I PERSONALLY REASON WITH YOUR EXPLANATIONS PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU ARE CLOSER TO THE LEADERSHIP. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT B'COS I USED TO BE CLOSE TO ONE OF THE RCCG PASTOR WHEN I WAS IN FEDERAL POLY , OFFA BEFORE MOVING TO THE UNITED STATES.

Jencejyde:

Well said! and God bless you.

Now, let me address the issue of private jets and community service. Im very much close to the leadership of the RCCG and without giving out too much details, i would want to let you know that the generalization of all men of God lavishing on riches and flying about in jets without helping their immediate communities is uncalled for. Is everything right in the church(rccg in focus) answer is no. Does the leadership have foresight and a clear vision as to how they want the church to affect the lives of the populace in this country. Answer is yes. If i may ask do you know how many parishes the church has world wide? Hmmm, wont say much, Now in a couple of months Dgo will be clocking 70 and every parish in the rccg wants him to come and hold crusades, ordain new pastors, hold conventions and congresses, Open new parishes and lots more all over the world,  If you are a frequent traveller, you will know how tough it is to travel to and fro Naija without the hassle and bussles of immigration,  The purpose of aquring the jet is not to play around, But to aid the work he is doing for God,

See it as you may, but this same man refused to purchase on of these in liew of what people would say when he could have had it a long time ago. You wont be traveling to 24 countries within two to three weeks and not nearly die of stress, trust me when you can afford what will ease you travels. The motive that everyone has for obtaining what they use is different and should never be generalized.

Now if you are opportuned to be close to the church administratively, you will notice that Dgo has instituted a programme called "Social Corporate Responsibility" that every Province within the church naming system is mandated to embark upon and monthly reports are given to the leadership to ensure that every parish caries out their quota,  You may not have benefited, but surely people are and those that do can testify to that,  Again do you know that a certain percentage of school fees for all missionaries(workers,pastors, et all ) is being paid by Dgo? Do you know how many peeps are on scholarships, Have you heard about "Heritage home" where orphans are being cared for and educated, ? The amenities that people on the camp ground enjoy for relatively free is financed by? Do you know how many Pastors are employed and paid worldwide?

Like i said, i am most grateful to God to be close to the leadership of this God ordained institution and if i did not know or experience better, i would probably join the band wagon of criticism,  Now regardless of all said, there is no perfection anywhere and there are challenges even in the church, There are wrongdoings, lies, fraud and all going on,  Do we know say that it is this Individual or that individual that is committing these atrocities,

Honestly i could go on all day, but seriously lets be objective, This is not about quoting bible passages but by doing practical things, setting examples that can be applied to everyday life.

I cant say much about other religious institutions cos i don't know what goes on there, but surely i wont condemn or rather its not in my place to condemn anyone or institution without knowing the real facts,

You may not necessarily agree with all i have said, but i have only tried to clarify some issues that some may not know. I pray we all succeed and join hands together to move this great country forward with the help of God.

Don't mind them. The other day, Aero Contractors cancelled the morning flight from Abuja to PH, split the passengers into three groups, lumped some of them with my flight, some with the next day's flight and the rest with another flight.

Those who fly Arik from Nigeria to London and back know how completely inept that airline is. How can pastors who have several speaking engagements, crusades, workers' meetings and still have to come back home to minister in their local churches, all within a matter of days, cope with such horrendous services?

Many of these complainants here are riding big cars and given the right amount of money, they will buy private jets as well.

When a woman poured expensive perfume at the feet of Jesus, exactly the responses many people have dished out here is what Jesus was fed with. That is why Jesus responded to them (especially the one who was talking about selling the perfume and giving the money to the poor) saying: "the poor you have with you always, but you will not always have me".

Let us face the fact. Jesus came into this world PRIMARILY for spiritual redemption. Giving to the poor is a distant second.

Besides, the emphasis of any true help to the poor is to help them out of poverty and not just giving them money and other such stuff. I know how many times I give to many poor people I meet everywhere and when I pass them 6 months later, they are still in the same state. So what is our giving to the poor really doing?

How many of the so-called giving to the poor/charity champions here even give more than N10 to beggars on the street? I once passed a man in his heavy jeep who stopped his car, scolded a boy carrying his invalid mother for carrying her in the sun and ended up giving her only N500! Imagine!

My branch of Winners is paying for the secondary school education of many orphans in a school we built and funded. My money goes in there and I see how we are transforming the lives of these orphans, some of them AIDS orphans. That is why I usually get very upset when people only talk about private jets; they are blind to the truth and refuse to see the truth.

That is why I say they should spit in the air, but not in my backyard!

I think (no offence o), that buying a private jet is like luxury, you know some people could do with that money.

Jencejyde, if you are a xtian and in a bad situation like you need money for an urgent surgery and you hear that one pastor is flying in jets then you could be discouraged.

yes, RCCG CANNOT  do everything but a lot of people perceive jet as luxury when first class airline travel is there.

I think a lot of church -goers are just waiting for their turn to be workers and pastors so they can steal their own. more questions to come.

Jencejyde:

Well said! and God bless you.

Now, let me address the issue of private jets and community service. Im very much close to the leadership of the RCCG and without giving out too much details, i would want to let you know that the generalization of all men of God lavishing on riches and flying about in jets without helping their immediate communities is uncalled for. Is everything right in the church(rccg in focus) answer is no. Does the leadership have foresight and a clear vision as to how they want the church to affect the lives of the populace in this country. Answer is yes. If i may ask do you know how many parishes the church has world wide? Hmmm, wont say much, Now in a couple of months Dgo will be clocking 70 and every parish in the rccg wants him to come and hold crusades, ordain new pastors, hold conventions and congresses, Open new parishes and lots more all over the world,  If you are a frequent traveller, you will know how tough it is to travel to and fro Naija without the hassle and bussles of immigration,  The purpose of aquring the jet is not to play around, But to aid the work he is doing for God,

See it as you may, but this same man refused to purchase on of these in liew of what people would say when he could have had it a long time ago. You wont be traveling to 24 countries within two to three weeks and not nearly die of stress, trust me when you can afford what will ease you travels. The motive that everyone has for obtaining what they use is different and should never be generalized.

Now if you are opportuned to be close to the church administratively, you will notice that Dgo has instituted a programme called "Social Corporate Responsibility" that every Province within the church naming system is mandated to embark upon and monthly reports are given to the leadership to ensure that every parish caries out their quota,  You may not have benefited, but surely people are and those that do can testify to that,  Again do you know that a certain percentage of school fees for all missionaries(workers,pastors, et all ) is being paid by Dgo? Do you know how many peeps are on scholarships, Have you heard about "Heritage home" where orphans are being cared for and educated, ? The amenities that people on the camp ground enjoy for relatively free is financed by? Do you know how many Pastors are employed and paid worldwide?

Like i said, i am most grateful to God to be close to the leadership of this God ordained institution and if i did not know or experience better, i would probably join the band wagon of criticism,  Now regardless of all said, there is no perfection anywhere and there are challenges even in the church, There are wrongdoings, lies, fraud and all going on,  Do we know say that it is this Individual or that individual that is committing these atrocities,

Honestly i could go on all day, but seriously lets be objective, This is not about quoting bible passages but by doing practical things, setting examples that can be applied to everyday life.

I cant say much about other religious institutions cos i don't know what goes on there, but surely i wont condemn or rather its not in my place to condemn anyone or institution without knowing the real facts,

You may not necessarily agree with all i have said, but i have only tried to clarify some issues that some may not know. I pray we all succeed and join hands together to move this great country forward with the help of God.

All nicely said.

BE CAREFUL: Even drug dealers help their community. That's why on the 1st page I said we should ignore the private jets and poor people. There will always be poor people.

You claim to be close to the leadership of the RCCG. I'm a member of the finance department in my local parish(RCCG). I would like you to state openly on this thread how money goes from a local parish in a remote village all the way to the national secretariat: how much percentage of tithes is submitted, money from the different fellowships etc. If you are what you claim to be, you should be privy to such information.

The focus of most my posts here has been on improving human's ability to think and solve problems on their own. After God created Adam, it was his job to name the animals. Would we in the name of miracles throw research down the drain? Would we in the name of financial breakthrough become sluggards?

stagger:


When a woman poured expensive perfume at the feet of Jesus, exactly the responses many people have dished out here is what Jesus was fed with. That is why Jesus responded to them (especially the one who was talking about selling the perfume and giving the money to the poor) saying: "the poor you have with you always, but you will not always have me".

Let us face the fact. Jesus came into this world PRIMARILY for spiritual redemption. Giving to the poor is a distant second.

Besides, the emphasis of any true help to the poor is to help them out of poverty and not just giving them money and other such stuff. I know how many times I give to many poor people I meet everywhere and when I pass them 6 months later, they are still in the same state. So what is our giving to the poor really doing?

[b]Jesus lived only 33yrs or so thats why He said the poor you will always have but not me.

Pastors are expected to live longer. besides we are meant to worship God not pastor. yes, church should meet the pastor's needs abundantly but not at the expense of those who may starve to death should pastor's

Spiritual redemption manifests through the physical. Jesus was not dirt poor but He was still poor so we can be rich, we are meant to prosper spiritually, financially(which is the koko in this world), maritally, physically(like the arabs), etc.

how do you preach to poor man?

or  a man who needs money for kidney operation?

or a man who has not eaten for two days?

or a man who is homeless?

is it by speaking in tongues or by anointing him?

the poor is the koko, my friend.

every poor is a potential xtian or RCCG member.

people will always make financial mistakes or be lazy or be born into the wrong circumstances?

so we should leave them to starve to death? the poor will always be there.

before you educate a poor man, you have to feed him, clothe him and house him so that the education will enter the skull and the spirit.

MOST OF THE MONEY COMING INTO THE CHURCH IS FROM MEMBERS NOT THE PASTORS AND IN A NORMAL SOCIETY IT IS MEANT TO HELP MEMBERS SO thats why people are worried and asking questions.

in the bible, when someone was in need, rich  or big men sold their property, assets etc and brought the money into the church to help homeless, sick and poor people.

so can these pastors who are role models and 'next to God' sell their jets and assets to help the homeless both in the church and outside?[/b]

[size=14Pt]
EVERYONE KNOWS THE SALARY OF THE POPE(minus gifts) SO WHY NOT NIGERIAN PENTECOSTAL PASTORS?[/size]

stagger:

Let us face the fact. Jesus came into this world PRIMARILY for spiritual redemption. Giving to the poor is a distant second.

Thank God you called it a fact, not the TRUTH.

musKeeto:

All nicely said.

BE CAREFUL: Even drug dealers help their community. That's why on the 1st page I said we should ignore the private jets and poor people. There will always be poor people.

You claim to be close to the leadership of the RCCG. I'm a member of the finance department in my local parish(RCCG). I would like you to state openly on this thread how money goes from a local parish in a remote village all the way to the national secretariat: how much percentage of tithes is submitted, money from the different fellowships etc. If you are what you claim to be, you should be privy to such information.

The focus of most my posts here has been on improving human's ability to think and solve problems on their own. After God created Adam, it was his job to name the animals. Would we in the name of miracles throw research down the drain? Would we in the name of financial breakthrough become sluggards?

musKeeto is still on this thread after more than 15 hours!!!!! Have you contributed on any other thread besides this??

sovpounds:

musKeeto is still on this thread after more than 15 hours!!!!! Have you contributed on any other thread besides this??

I don't know if you realise but nairaland ha something called notifications. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can check the timestamps of my post. Also check my recent posts too on my profile. If that still doesn't satisfy you, then bear with me.

goshen360:

YOU HAVE SPOKEN WELL LIKE A TRUE CHRISTIAN UNLIKE OTHER MEMBERS OF RCCG WHO COME HERE TO ELEVATE PST ADEBOYE WITHOUT A REASONABLE THING TO SAY. I PERSONALLY REASON WITH YOUR EXPLANATIONS PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU ARE CLOSER TO THE LEADERSHIP. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT B'COS I USED TO BE CLOSE TO ONE OF THE RCCG PASTOR WHEN I WAS IN FEDERAL POLY , OFFA BEFORE MOVING TO THE UNITED STATES.

@ goshen360, you are a solid personality and your maturity comes through in the way you write. I want to engage you and Muskeeto outside this forum but as you may have noticed, I am not a frequent NL user. I imagine there is an inbox facility of some sort here. If there's none, any ideas on how we can rub minds?
Thanks also to jencejyde for being objective in the end. Bottomline is that Christ has built His church (not just a denomination) on the foundation of Truth and the gates of hell won't prevail againt our onslaught.

@ musKeeto, pls send me email or adding request on my yahoo at goshen360@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks

goshen360:

@ i_DO, Tenkobe, musKeeto, 9icelag, dagboss, Hustle, RealTruth, Lecanno, Cautious, Sovpounds, saxywale, felifeli, debrief08, hercules07, numo86, Tunjman, karpenter YOU ARE ALL BLESSED NOT ONLY WITH TRUTH AND REVELATION OF GOD'S WORD BUT ALSO WITH THE MIND OF CHRIST. And to our other christian brothers and sisters who doesn't share same view with us, YOU ARE ALL BLESSED TOO.

I will like to point out here that none of the people mentioned above including me are anti-Christ nor are we anti church as church is Christ's institution and place of worship to the Most High God who had redeemed our sinful nature through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; but we are anti-religion(True religion to God does not neglect the poor, orphans, those who are hungry, judgment and love as Christ loved us) and religious people who, having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof and obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. We share the light of the biblical truth. When the word of God says: Romans 12:2: Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will (New International Version), it’s talking about the same thing in Philippians 2:5, Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. It's talking about attitudes and same character as if it were Jesus Christ. We can read other translations for more understand. I HOPE WE START BIBLICAL STUDY OF TRUTH HERE ON NAIRALAND SOON SO AS TO LIBERATE THE MINDS OF OUR FELLOW CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN LOVE.

I just read what Adeboye himself said: I quote and amplify

http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/index.php/news/29721-adeboye-urges-nigerians-to-seek-god%E2%80%99s-face.html

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
It is amazing that the so called God’s people (religious people) are the same wicked people in wicked ways and activities. God respects His word and principles, not persons. He loved us as sinners but hate our sins and wickedness that has plagued our land Nigeria.

Now in the light of Adeboye’s word, I guess we should question or will love to start reading about Redeemed Christian Church of God and other big churches in Nigeria taking responsibilities along side with the government. They should also start sacrificing for the orphans, poor, unemployed rather than flying in private jets and also taking responsibilities to participate in moving our dear country forward rather than all this yearly gathering and noise, am not condemning these gatherings, they are good as I also attend here in United States where I reside. But we should also start to see actions as to how their large congregation contributes to national development. Religious people obviously thinks that when we give our lives to Christ, that we lost our minds, thinking God will descend down to come solve the problems we can solve by ourselves. Americans developed America and so other developed countries. God will help those who help themselves, meaning we all, including these churches and so called men of God have to take responsibilities, sacrifice, work hard and think right as the preacher (Adeboye) had said.

Thanks for declaring me as BLESSED.

freshera:

Jencejyde

I have these questions:

1. The people who gave us xtianity and the old churtches like Catholic and Anglican all have open books. Why not RCCG?

-How much is Go collecting as salary (minus gifts of course)?
-How much are the pastors paid?
-Who agreed these things?
-How much is given to charity?

2. What has RCCG done about the traffic situation wasting time and indirectly causing havoc. The money is there to get a apermanent situation.

Why must other people be stressed and put in agony because some people are going to visit church?

3. Why is there no question and answer session between the heads of the church and the members and public?

Even Jesus/God took questions.

4. Why do pple have to give specific amounts? Why not as their hearts purposeth?

In RCCG, they have levels of giving like

1-5million naira
5-10million naira
etc.

5. Why not donate to existing unis and schools instead of building new ones?

Is it a selfish way  OF IMMORTALISING THE G.O. disguised as educational contribution ? I thought this world will pass away. Just asking, NO OFFENCE.

6. Since RCCG is close to the govt. why not lobby for power and pray that the generator importers/PHCN BRIBE TAKERS will be destroyed so there can be light and the economy can explode?

Hmmm, very well said.

1. The people who gave us xtianity and the old churches like Catholic and Anglican all have open books. Why not RCCG?

-How much is Go collecting as salary (minus gifts of course)?
-How much are the pastors paid?
-Who agreed these things?
-How much is given to charity?

I may not ver well depth in theology as my core is IT. One thing i do know is that we all, whether anglicans, catholics, baptist or pentecostal all practise christianity. When you say open books, are you saying the rccg should declare its earning? pls elaborate.

Under intelligence, i may not answer some of your questions here, but I will give you an insight. The Go is an honorable member that was entrusted by the founder to carry on with the vison of the founder, hence what he gets is unquantifiable. People willingly do things and give him gifts beyond what you can imagine,  Pastors are paid on a salary scale level that may not be much but is ok, considering that the institution is not a profit making organization and the number of workers are enormous. It is the administration that was set up in the early days as early as the 80( well that's when i got involved) that put up this structure and Believe me sir, much and i say this with all sincerity, a lot is given out to charity by the church and individuals who are members as well. I mentioned something about Social corporate responsibility in my earlier post, pls endevour to check.

2. What has RCCG done about the traffic situation wasting time and indirectly causing havoc. The money is there to get a apermanent situation.

Why must other people be stressed and put in agony because some people are going to visit church?

Again the RCCG is not Govt. Its a church and there is a limit to which they can go about some certain activities under the constitution. Yes they have had their fare share of causing traffic during programmes along the expressway, even i was frustrated too. Apologies on behalf of the church if you have encounterd such previously. But let me say that this peculiar one only occurs during monthly programs along the express and not everywhere in Lagos oh, But as i speak to you, Security and traffic committees have been formed of whom have dealt with the situation admirably in recent times,

You say the money is there and yet i told you that its a Church primarily and not profit oriented and the Camp ground which houses dwellers also has maintenance needs and development, Is it priority or in the name of pro activeness for the rccg to embark on fixing traffic or roads when we have a govt? Dont you think the church has its own needs?

3. Why is there no question and answer session between the heads of the church and the members and public?

Even Jesus/God took questions,

Yes it could be done, but mind you lets be focused on the objective here and not see the rccg as the govt in power. in-house the rccg has a lot of programmes to address the needs of its congregations at various levels.


4. Why do pple have to give specific amounts? Why not as their hearts purposeth?

In RCCG, they have levels of giving like

1-5million naira
5-10million naira
etc.

Good talk, let me remind you again that even in the rccg there is no perfection, pls read my earlier post again. I have heard of such practices too and it has been highly condemned by the leadership with serious penalties for any offender, but should i now say it is how the whole institution operates?

When there are projects that need to be done, true that the church pleads with the congregation to donate monetarily or spiritually to support such. But never have they FORCED anyone to give, It is voluntarily, As i speak to you, There are member's who give millions to the church monthly VOLUNTARILY because they desire to do so. They have it and believe if they support the work of God, they will continually be blessed, Do you think they were forced or jazzed, did they put guns to their heads, We are talking about a church that is the fastest growing in the world with branches spread worldwide, do you know how much tha amounts to?  

Surely we are all different, so if one person decides not to give, another person will.

5. Why not donate to existing unis and schools instead of building new ones?

The only Uni that the rccg has is RUN(Redeemers University) and surely the church has contributed to projects in other Universities and still does.

It is not everything that one does that you get to hear, that's absolutely impossible. But if you manage to get close to the administration, you will find out that many programmes are being run to a positive end.

Well those who want to immortalize a man are free to do that, but my bible tells me to put my trust in God and not man. I respect the man of God and have great admiration for what he has accomplished but surely i do not worship him, That immortalizing thing is absolute bullocks, dunno but men, this is 2011, anyone doing that is on a long thing.

6. Since RCCG is close to the govt. why not lobby for power and pray that the generator importers/PHCN BRIBE TAKERS will be destroyed so there can be light and the economy can explode?

Hahahah! you know, i was speaking with one of our directors and we shared something similar. Its a complicated situation cos govt is politics and i know the leadership of this institution will never want to be seen as practicing politics. Unfortunately, its is true that most of the member's hold high positions in govt and , hmmmm May God help us to be better individuals and do the right thing regardless of where we are positioned, Easier said than done especially when i particularly know what goes on in these place, In short, We simply have some few good people surrounded  by loads of corrupt ones and its a do or die situation, Only prayer with tactical actions that can deliver us from this state we are in now, As for light, i can tell you that the rccg generates their own light and it is solely financed by the leadership after careful planning and structuring plus the individuals acted with integrity.

Hope i have been able to answer ur questions as sincerely as possible. God Bless!

musKeeto:

I don't know if you realise but nairaland ha something called notifications. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can check the timestamps of my post. Also check my recent posts too on my profile. If that still doesn't satisfy you, then bear with me.

I was just joking o.

cautious:

@ goshen360, you are a solid personality and your maturity comes through in the way you write. I want to engage you and Muskeeto outside this forum but as you may have noticed, I am not a frequent NL user. I imagine there is an inbox facility of some sort here. If there's none, any ideas on how we can rub minds?
Thanks also to jencejyde for being objective in the end. Bottomline is that Christ has built His church (not just a denomination) on the foundation of Truth and the gates of hell won't prevail againt our onslaught.  

Thank you sir!

sovpounds:

I was just joking o.

Na wa for you o. The way things are heating up here, even jokes are seen as snide remarks, my bad, no wahala, hope say na joke sha, if not

goshen360:

@ musKeeto, pls send me email or adding request on my yahoo at goshen360@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks

cautious:

@ goshen360, you are a solid personality and your maturity comes through in the way you write. I want to engage you and Muskeeto outside this forum but as you may have noticed, I am not a frequent NL user. I imagine there is an inbox facility of some sort here. If there's none, any ideas on how we can rub minds?
Thanks also to jencejyde for being objective in the end. Bottomline is that Christ has built His church (not just a denomination) on the foundation of Truth and the gates of hell won't prevail againt our onslaught.  

I'd prefer we use emails. I closed my accounts on social networking sites. Most of my views on Christianity attracted a lot of enemies , even close friends and family felt like I was an Anti-Christ. Also some church members would post my comments to the pastors in my parish.

EDIT:prnckash@gmail.com

@ Jencyjyde- u have time to be replying musketeer and the others, it seems u are not aware that G.O said nobody should defend him anywhere. Let God be his judge

Musketeers and others are entitled to their views - it doesn’t necessarily make it right.

Let those of us who want to worship the true living God who answers prayers, who made Nebuchadnezzer King, turned him into an animal for 7yrs and restored his throne to show his supremacy, who gave all christians the mandate to preach the gospel "unto the ends of the earth" continue to do so.

Let those of us who believe in tithes and offerings- and have seen a very clear manifestation of what obeying God's word can do for you continue to do so.
Why people disregard God’s word in order to be “clever – clever here meaning with-holding what God has commanded his children to give for the furtherance of his work on earth” because of fear that one pastor somewhere is eating your money beats me – leave the pastor to eat the money. He is answerable to God.

Let the Musketeers of this world and his ilk continue to apply "human and economic logic" to God's word - theories that have done the world-including the so called developed economies no good. Abi no be dis same world we dey wey Europe & America enter economic shambles?

Jencejyde:

Hmmm,  very well said.

1. The people who gave us xtianity and the old churches like Catholic and Anglican all have open books. Why not RCCG?

-How much is Go collecting as salary (minus gifts of course)?
-How much are the pastors paid?
-Who agreed these things?
-How much is given to charity?

I may not ver well depth in theology as my core is IT. One thing i do know is that we all, whether anglicans, catholics, baptist or pentecostal all practise christianity. When you say open books, are you saying the rccg should declare its earning? pls elaborate.

Under intelligence, i may not answer some of your questions here, but I will give you an insight. The Go is an honorable member that was entrusted by the founder to carry on with the vison of the founder, hence what he gets is unquantifiable. People willingly do things and give him gifts beyond what you can imagine,   Pastors are paid on a salary scale level that may not be much but is ok, considering that the institution is not a profit making organization and the number of workers are enormous. It is the administration that was set up in the early days as early as the 80( well that's when i got involved) that put up this structure and Believe me sir, much and i say this with all sincerity, a lot is given out to charity by the church and individuals who are members as well. I mentioned something about Social corporate responsibility in my earlier post, pls endevour to check.

2. What has RCCG done about the traffic situation wasting time and indirectly causing havoc. The money is there to get a apermanent situation.

Why must other people be stressed and put in agony because some people are going to visit church?

Again the RCCG is not Govt. Its a church and there is a limit to which they can go about some certain activities under the constitution. Yes they have had their fare share of causing traffic during programmes along the expressway, even i was frustrated too. Apologies on behalf of the church if you have encounterd such previously. But let me say that this peculiar one only occurs during monthly programs along the express and not everywhere in Lagos oh,  But as i speak to you, Security and traffic committees have been formed of whom have dealt with the situation admirably in recent times,

You say the money is there and yet i told you that its a Church primarily and not profit oriented and the Camp ground which houses dwellers also has maintenance needs and development, Is it priority or in the name of pro activeness for the rccg to embark on fixing traffic or roads when we have a govt? Dont you think the church has its own needs?

3. Why is there no question and answer session between the heads of the church and the members and public?

Even Jesus/God took questions,

Yes it could be done, but mind you lets be focused on the objective here and not see the rccg as the govt in power. in-house the rccg has a lot of programmes to address the needs of its congregations at various levels.


4. Why do pple have to give specific amounts? Why not as their hearts purposeth?

In RCCG, they have levels of giving like

1-5million naira
5-10million naira
etc.

Good talk, let me remind you again that even in the rccg there is no perfection, pls read my earlier post again. I have heard of such practices too and it has been highly condemned by the leadership with serious penalties for any offender, but should i now say it is how the whole institution operates?

When there are projects that need to be done, true that the church pleads with the congregation to donate monetarily or spiritually to support such. But never have they FORCED anyone to give, It is voluntarily,  As i speak to you, There are member's who give millions to the church monthly VOLUNTARILY because they desire to do so. They have it and believe if they support the work of God, they will continually be blessed,  Do you think they were forced or jazzed, did they put guns to their heads,  We are talking about a church that is the fastest growing in the world with branches spread worldwide,  do you know how much tha amounts to?  

Surely we are all different, so if one person decides not to give, another person will.

5. Why not donate to existing unis and schools instead of building new ones?

The only Uni that the rccg has is RUN(Redeemers University) and surely the church has contributed to projects in other Universities and still does.

It is not everything that one does that you get to hear, that's absolutely impossible. But if you manage to get close to the administration, you will find out that many programmes are being run to a positive end.

Well those who want to immortalize a man are free to do that, but my bible tells me to put my trust in God and not man. I respect the man of God and have great admiration for what he has accomplished but surely i do not worship him,  That immortalizing thing is absolute bullocks, dunno but men, this is 2011,  anyone doing that is on a long thing.

6. Since RCCG is close to the govt. why not lobby for power and pray that the generator importers/PHCN BRIBE TAKERS will be destroyed so there can be light and the economy can explode?

Hahahah! you know, i was speaking with one of our directors and we shared something similar. Its a complicated situation cos govt is politics and i know the leadership of this institution will never want to be seen as practicing politics. Unfortunately, its is true that most of the member's hold high positions in govt and , hmmmm May God help us to be better individuals and do the right thing regardless of where we are positioned,  Easier said than done especially when i particularly know what goes on in these place,  In short, We simply have some few good people surrounded  by loads of corrupt ones and its a do or die situation, Only prayer with tactical actions that can deliver us from this state we are in now,  As for light, i can tell you that the rccg generates their own light and it is solely financed by the leadership after careful planning and structuring plus the individuals acted with integrity.

Hope i have been able to answer your questions as sincerely as possible. God Bless!

YES SIR. THANK YOU SIR

@ cautious, muskeeto and people of like passion as i am, kindly send me email or adding request on yahoo messenger. Together, we can start this revolution. goshen360@yahoo.co.uk

freshera:

[b]Jesus lived only 33yrs or so thats why He said the poor you will always have but not me.

Pastors are expected to live longer. besides we are meant to worship God not pastor. yes, church should meet the pastor's needs abundantly but not at the expense of those who may starve to death should pastor's

Spiritual redemption manifests through the physical. Jesus was not dirt poor but He was still poor so we can be rich, we are meant to prosper spiritually, financially(which is the koko in this world), maritally, physically(like the arabs), etc.

how do you preach to poor man?

or  a man who needs money for kidney operation?

or a man who has not eaten for two days?

or a man who is homeless?

is it by speaking in tongues or by anointing him?

the poor is the koko, my friend.

every poor is a potential xtian or RCCG member.

people will always make financial mistakes or be lazy or be born into the wrong circumstances?

so we should leave them to starve to death? the poor will always be there.

before you educate a poor man, you have to feed him, clothe him and house him so that the education will enter the skull and the spirit.

MOST OF THE MONEY COMING INTO THE CHURCH IS FROM MEMBERS NOT THE PASTORS AND IN A NORMAL SOCIETY IT IS MEANT TO HELP MEMBERS SO thats why people are worried and asking questions.

in the bible, when someone was in need, rich  or big men sold their property, assets etc and brought the money into the church to help homeless, sick and poor people.

So can these pastors who are role models and 'next to God' sell their jets and assets to help the homeless both in the church and outside?[/b]

[size=14Pt]
EVERYONE KNOWS THE SALARY OF THE POPE(minus gifts) SO WHY NOT NIGERIAN PENTECOSTAL PASTORS?[/size]

The highlighted points in blue: I agree with your analysis there 100%. Even God said that he that giveth to the poor lendeth to the Lord! I agree 100%. The poor should never be left to starve to death. But they also should not be left to remain poor. This is where the church can do a lot more.

The point highlighted in green is what is seriously missing in our churches; again I agree 100%. A lot more needs to be done.

But I will not ask someone who I know bought a private jet with his personal money to sell it. No one has a right to tell me what I do with my property, so I do not see why I should tell another man what to do with his, especially when I know he gives as well, and heavily too (people usually don't like to talk about this one).

I don't know the pope's salary o (and it is not my business really), but I know my own parish pastor's own: ZERO. He still practises his architecture!

NaijaNile:

@ Jencyjyde- u have time to be replying musketeer and the others, it seems u are not aware that G.O said nobody should defend him anywhere. Let God be his judge

Why people disregard God’s word in order to be “clever – clever here meaning with-holding what God has commanded his children to give for the furtherance of his work on earth” because of fear that one pastor somewhere is eating your money beats me – leave the pastor to eat the money. He is answerable to God.

Let the Musketeers of this world and his ilk continue to apply "human and economic logic" to God's word - theories that have done the world-including the so called developed economies no good. Abi no be dis same world we dey wey Europe & America enter economic shambles?

[size=13pt]THE SAME HUMAN LOGIC PRODUCED THIS INTERNET AND THE COMPUTERS WE ARE USING?

why didn't God come down and invent computers for us? sometimes we need to use what he has given us. when it is finished, we ask for more.

THE SAME HUMAN LOGIC THAT  gave MILLIONS OF NIGERIANS AND OTHER AFRICANS WESTERN EDUCATION AND CIVILIZATION??

THE SAME HUMAN LOGIC THAT PRODUCED MEASLES, TETANUS AND POLIO VACCINES THAT KEPT RCCG MEMBERS ALIVE WHEN THEY WERE BABIES???[/size]


there are millions of poor and illiterate nigerians who are falling prey to fake pastors. we want to help. thats what this is all about. is that bad?

musKeeto:

All nicely said.

BE CAREFUL: Even drug dealers help their community. That's why on the 1st page I said we should ignore the private jets and poor people. There will always be poor people.

You claim to be close to the leadership of the RCCG. I'm a member of the finance department in my local parish(RCCG). I would like you to state openly on this thread how money goes from a local parish in a remote village all the way to the national secretariat: how much percentage of tithes is submitted, money from the different fellowships etc. If you are what you claim to be, you should be privy to such information.

The focus of most my posts here has been on improving human's ability to think and solve problems on their own. After God created Adam, it was his job to name the animals. Would we in the name of miracles throw research down the drain? Would we in the name of financial breakthrough become sluggards?

Haha , bros u still dey here? and you are even a member in the institution working there? abi you dey lie.hahahaa just kidding

What province are you under,what Area and what zone? , plus i know the same structure of naming is now used in the US and would soon be universal in all RCCG. And if ur in the Local parish then that means you are subject to the National headquaters, Well i need not say more, Ill just maintain that im very close to the Leadership.

Neways, since i am also into intelligence, i would humbly decline to state the information you have requested openly on this thread as it is not based on auditing or classified purposes. this is simply a discussion thread. Disseminating info on the structure and full processes of an institution to which i belong indiscriminately without any serious purpose is simply to act in stupidity. With security threat levels rising everyday, Haba! cmon you should know better.

Yes i am privy to such and surely i need not brag about that.

I sincerely appreciate your contributions, but was taken aback when you used derogatory statements to state some of your points. In life, i believe sometimes we start off on the wrong paths, but gradually with time we beginning to understand and share views in a much more positive manner.

Sincerely i applaud your acumen but like i said, i just responded after careful consideration to clarify some things. I offer a handshake in good stead believing we can still share positive views and brainstorm to find lasting solutions to some of our every day challenges within and outside the church.

Of course we should always try to improve ourselves as individuals and that should not be tied or identified with religious or social sentiments, but alas! we live in world where society is rapidly changing and values, ideals and moral standards are constantly vanishing. We that still share these sentiments should only continue to share them whenever we have the opportunity. I pray God will teach us all IJN.

stagger:

The highlighted points in blue: I agree with your analysis there 100%. Even God said that he that giveth to the poor lendeth to the Lord! I agree 100%. The poor should never be left to starve to death. But they also should not be left to remain poor. This is where the church can do a lot more.

The point highlighted in green is what is seriously missing in our churches; again I agree 100%. A lot more needs to be done.

But I will not ask someone who I know bought a private jet with his personal money to sell it. No one has a right to tell me what I do with my property, so I do not see why I should tell another man what to do with his, especially when I know he gives as well, and heavily too (people usually don't like to talk about this one).

I don't know the pope's salary o (and it is not my business really), but I know my own parish pastor's own: ZERO. He still practises his architecture!

the pope's salary is known by both catholics and non-catholics. you can google the exact amount.

anywayz, God help us all.

stagger:


Let us face the fact. Jesus came into this world PRIMARILY for spiritual redemption. Giving to the poor is a distant second.

I know Muskeeto replied already but I can't ignore this comment. So how do define spiritual redemption if Jesus Himself said He came to give abundant life? Sir, setting the poor free is incorporated in the message of the cross. Justice is the theme Jesus taught which includes catering for the poor and oppressed. When Jesus sent John's disciples back to him in Matt 11, He said "the poor have the gospel preached to them". Shows He spent time ministering to them. When He reeled out His judgement criteria in Matt 25, His words were "I was hungry and you fed me, ". If you attempt to separate the salvation experience from our responsibility to the poor or relegate it to the background, then you nullify scripture sir. Jesus' ministry defined in Isaiah 61:1 has the poor as core. Read through scripture and this truth will stare at you.

freshera:

the pope's salary is known by both catholics and non-catholics. you can google the exact amount.

anywayz, God help us all.

Don't you get the logic? A man like myself with 2 businesses and several staff to pay every month has no bloody time going to dig around as to what the pope or a pastor is earning. Only jobless people who have nothing to contribute to humanity and society do.

NaijaNile:

@ Jencyjyde- u have time to be replying musketeer and the others, it seems u are not aware that G.O said nobody should defend him anywhere. Let God be his judge

Musketeers and others are entitled to their views - it doesn’t necessarily make it right.

Let those of us who want to worship the true living God who answers prayers, who made Nebuchadnezzer King, turned him into an animal for 7yrs and restored his throne to show his supremacy, who gave all christians the mandate to preach the gospel "unto the ends of the earth" continue to do so.

Let those of us who believe in tithes and offerings- and have seen a very clear manifestation of what obeying God's word can do for you continue to do so.
Why people disregard God’s word in order to be “clever – clever here meaning with-holding what God has commanded his children to give for the furtherance of his work on earth” because of fear that one pastor somewhere is eating your money beats me – leave the pastor to eat the money. He is answerable to God.

Let the Musketeers of this world and his ilk continue to apply "human and economic logic" to God's word - theories that have done the world-including the so called developed economies no good. Abi no be dis same world we dey wey Europe & America enter economic shambles?

Ha!, Its not like that oh, plus who am i to defend Daddy, not even close.

What we are simply doing is to express opinions, its a forum init? and in so doing, try to reach a compromise and see postives in every indivudals opinion with a view to learning and applying it to make our society better. At the same time discovering the negatives with a view to respectfully condemn such and hopefully we can all benefit one way or the other.

Trust me, I believe in the awesomeness of Jesus, cos a lot has happened in my life that ordinarily my intelligence would never have been able to concur. But in so saying i still need to read to pass exams abi, i still need to go to work and liase and brainstorm to move my organization forward abi? Surely this is in no way to prove what is not and basically at the end of it all. No one knows what tomorrow holds, we can only hope and pray, but we should not forget to plan as well.

God Bless!

stagger:

Don't you get the logic? A man like myself with 2 businesses and several staff to pay every month has no bloody time going to dig around as to what the pope or a pastor is earning. Only jobless people who have nothing to contribute to humanity and society do.

Big Boy!

Jencejyde:

Haha , bros u still dey here? and you are even a member in the institution working there? abi you dey lie.hahahaa just kidding

What province are you under,what Area and what zone? , plus i know the same structure of naming is now used in the US and would soon be universal in all RCCG. And if your in the Local parish then that means you are subject to the National headquaters,  Well i need not say more,  Ill just maintain that im very close to the Leadership.

Neways, since i am also into intelligence, i would humbly decline to state the information you have requested openly on this thread as it is not based on auditing or classified purposes. this is simply a discussion thread. Disseminating info on the structure and full processes of an institution to which i belong indiscriminately without any serious purpose is simply to act in stupidity. With security threat levels rising everyday, Haba! cmon you should know better.

Yes i am privy to such and surely i need not brag about that.

I sincerely appreciate your contributions, but was taken aback when you used derogatory statements to state some of your points. In life, i believe sometimes we start off on the wrong paths, but gradually with time we beginning to understand and share views in a much more positive manner.

Sincerely i applaud your acumen but like i said, i just responded after careful consideration to clarify some things. I offer a handshake in good stead believing we can still share positive views and brainstorm to find lasting solutions to some of our every day challenges within and outside the church.

Of course we should always try to improve ourselves as individuals and that should not be tied or identified with religious or social sentiments, but alas! we live in world where society is rapidly changing and values, ideals and moral standards are constantly vanishing. We that still share these sentiments should only continue to share them whenever we have the opportunity. I pray God will teach us all IJN.

Lmao, I was actually expecting that. I would do you a favor by not disclosing much, but I was shocked the first time I had to do remittance (my parish being an Area hq in Rivers State). Money from even the house fellowships was included. This was apart from 100% tithe and other information I would not like to disclose. After calculating the number of parishes under my area, I did the multiplication through zones, regions and all. The figure was so staggering (lol), and my conscience won't allow me to contribute to such 'madness'. It just won't. I still give offerings but I ensure my tithes are given to a brother in need or gifts for people.

I'm first a Christian then a Nigerian.  We have become a very religious country, to the point of sheer laziness. We now believe in God for everything. This has been the focus of most of my posts.  I accept your handshake. Even brothers fight.

NaijaNile:

@ Jencyjyde- u have time to be replying musketeer and the others, it seems u are not aware that G.O said nobody should defend him anywhere. Let God be his judge

Musketeers and others are entitled to their views - it doesn’t necessarily make it right.

Let those of us who want to worship the true living God who answers prayers, who made Nebuchadnezzer King, turned him into an animal for 7yrs and restored his throne to show his supremacy, who gave all christians the mandate to preach the gospel "unto the ends of the earth" continue to do so.

Let those of us who believe in tithes and offerings- and have seen a very clear manifestation of what obeying God's word can do for you continue to do so.
Why people disregard God’s word in order to be “clever – clever here meaning with-holding what God has commanded his children to give for the furtherance of his work on earth” because of fear that one pastor somewhere is eating your money beats me – leave the pastor to eat the money. He is answerable to God.

Let the Musketeers of this world and his ilk continue to apply "human and economic logic" to God's word - theories that have done the world-including the so called developed economies no good. Abi no be dis same world we dey wey Europe & America enter economic shambles?

First, thank you for accepting we are entitle to our views. You're also entitled to yours. I've no beef with tithes and offerings. In fact, I steer away from such arguments as best as I can. Do I believe in tithes? NO. Does it matter? Well, would paying or not paying tithes earn one salvation?

1 Corinthians
I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Romans 14
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.


I don't believe God would give me something in order to throw it to the wind. If one suspects a pastor is stealing or eating his tithes, he has every right to question the pastor,  God didn't make us fools. How can you feed wrong? And ask God to judge? That pastor go fat wella o,

It's also amazing how most Nigerians would run to the Europe and America whose economies are 'crashing' now,  don't deceive yourself. I suspect if I got you a visa, you'd be on that pulpit next Sunday testifying to God.


A short story before I get to bed.
While visiting an Asian country last year, I got on one of the buses. Upon entering the bus, a stranger walked up to my friend and asked of my nationality. He was so elated when my friend told him I was Nigerian that he almost suffocated me with hugs. After he had alighted from the bus, I asked my friend what had made a total stranger so happy to see me. He said the stranger was a Muslim and had heard Nigerians were Muslims. To say I was shocked was beyond an understatement.

I learnt a valuable lesson that day. You see, when that stranger hugged me, he wasn't hugging me, he was hugging an identity 'Muslim'. That perception immediately transformed me to one of his brothers in just a second. All humans have one way or the other treated people this way. Nairaland is an anonymous forum and sometimes from people's comments, we create a wrong perception about them. I feel that most of us here are Christians, but this story should apply to everyone. Learn to appreciate people for who they are, not where they're from or their background. Learn to look at both sides of the coin. Let's stop behaving like our foolish politicians. That someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't necessarily mean he disagrees with your person.

Let's preach love as Jesus taught it. Even if one is not a Christian, one can learn valuable lessons from the life of Jesus. I've learnt a lot from some Hindu friends I have, even Buddhism too. When you open your mind more, you begin to see and understand the universality of God's word, the Bible. You begin to understand and grasp slowly love that transcends skin color, accent or class.

One love to everyone. Sleep don dey catch me,