RichyBlacK:

I can't believe someone can say "there is nothing wrong with tribalism", go on to compare humans with amala and iyan, and then confuse "choice" with "prejudice".

@poster, fashie that babe one time! You no need that kin yeye human being for your life. Babes full ground. No waste anytime with that kin person, I take God beg you. If she no talk to you, no give am any face. Nonsense! If the babe jam solid Igbo guy, she think say the guy go get time for am? She jam solid Yoruba guy wey like am die, she dey do shakara. After when she cross thirty, she go turn born-again dey look for bobos inside church. Thunder fire her head. Forget about her immediately!

Tribalists and racists, are just people with a high dose of inferiority complex. They're usually people who have experienced discrimination in their past, and have come to see it as the only way of existing.

@RichyBLACK, 

I believe you read my post WRONg cause NO WHERE in my post did I EVER COMPARE IYAN AND amala with HUmans. I merely gave an example of what I do in my daily life and many of us do anyway which I consider the main issue in this, FREEDOM OF CHOICE, no matter what the CRITERIA.


trib·al·ism (trb-lzm)
             1. The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
             2. A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.


You may not like it but I have great respect for people who are loyal to their tribe and beliefs. I may not agree with it and it may affect me and if it causes me harm, I believe I have a right to defend myself in that case but I still respect them for their loyalty and their beliefs. In this case, this lady decided to go with her tribal ideals over this dude and I respect her choice. I do not even know the guy enough myself to say he lost much. Heck, for all we know he may have been trying to get into her pants and her rejecting him saved her from such, WHO KNOWS , LOL I Just think we are making a big fuzz over nothing. About me being rejected for my skin color, yes I have and I have had to prove myself over and over that is how I got where I am today, I work with some of the coolest dudes in the world and they do not even see my skin color cause they know I am good at my job. I have had to deal with rejection most of my life to get to where I am today and I thank my God everyday for the opportunities He and He alone has opened for me through all that. so perish the thought that these experiences are unique to just those of you who have a problem with " TRIBALISM".

Kobojunkie's second to last post has more than put this thread in the best perspective.
I remember talking about racism with a couple of white colleagues one afternoon, they were shocked into an awkward silence when i told them bluntly that EVERYONE black, white, green, blue is RACIST to a certain degree.

Kobo made mention of the power of choice - white people choose not to relate to blacks, many blacks here (my humble self included) would NEVER dream of dating an Asian, Igbos dont like to marry yorubas e.t.c. however way you look at it we are merely expressing that innate capacity for prejudice. The only time prejudice is wrong is when you use it as a weapon to deny me my rights and priviledges, beyond that you are absolutely free to dislike me for my skin color or shape of my nose. It is none of my business.

Why is Adeniyi crying? The lady does not like you and is clinging to your tribe as an excuse to push you away. An igbo uncle of mine waited 4 yrs before he could get parental permission to marry his yoruba girlfriend. He won over her parents by careful persuasion, prayer and patience. I dont remember him going to sulk in one corner of his room and putting up paper ads to bemoan tribalistic Nigerians.

davidylan:

Kobojunkie's second to last post has more than put this thread in the best perspective.
I remember talking about racism with a couple of white colleagues one afternoon, they were shocked into an awkward silence when i told them bluntly that EVERYONE black, white, green, blue is RACIST to a certain degree.

Kobo made mention of the power of choice - white people choose not to relate to blacks, many blacks here (my humble self included) would NEVER dream of dating an Asian, Igbos don't like to marry yorubas e.t.c. however way you look at it we are merely expressing that innate capacity for prejudice. The only time prejudice is wrong is when you use it as a weapon to deny me my rights and priviledges, beyond that you are absolutely free to dislike me for my skin color or shape of my nose. It is none of my business.
Why is Adeniyi crying? The lady does not like you and is clinging to your tribe as an excuse to push you away. An igbo uncle of mine waited 4 years before he could get parental permission to marry his yoruba girlfriend. He won over her parents by careful persuasion, prayer and patience. I don't remember him going to sulk in one corner of his room and putting up paper ads to bemoan tribalistic Nigerians.

OH GOSH!!! I could not have said it better, thank you for that @David . I can not wait for the ALIENS to arrive on planet EARTH and then we get to see who will be the first to step out and actually marry or create ties with the green monsters ( JOKING )

almondjoy:

There is nothing to "prove". If someone is shallow-minded enough to judge you by your tribal characteristics without getting to know you---do not ever bother with that person. Because you have not even reached the tip of the iceberg. This girl might also have some innate "primitive" beliefs not conducive to any healthy union--based on her environment, level of exposure or upbringing.

That type of person is not worth knowing at all, lest he or she drags you to the level of your mind being a "muskeg of mediocrity"! Seek forth your own kind so the future of your unborn children can be meaningful! BTW-it might be wise to confront the beast in "tribalism" before you tackle the monster of "oyinbo racism." Only then can you face the true enemy with one solid voice! Cheers!

what happened is stereotyping caused by either by her general believes or personal experience.therefore proving that u are different will make her see the damage stereotyping is doing to her.

but of course she may not actually have cut him off strictly because of his tribe but some other issues pertaining to her standard.

davidylan:

Kobojunkie's second to last post has more than put this thread in the best perspective.
I remember talking about racism with a couple of white colleagues one afternoon, they were shocked into an awkward silence when i told them bluntly that EVERYONE black, white, green, blue is RACIST to a certain degree.
Kobo made mention of the power of choice - white people choose not to relate to blacks, many blacks here (my humble self included) would NEVER dream of dating an Asian, Igbos don't like to marry yorubas e.t.c. however way you look at it we are merely expressing that innate capacity for prejudice. The only time prejudice is wrong is when you use it as a weapon to deny me my rights and priviledges, beyond that you are absolutely free to dislike me for my skin color or shape of my nose. It is none of my business.

WORD!

Kobojunkie:



@RichyBLACK,

I believe you read my post WRONg cause NO WHERE in my post did I EVER COMPARE IYAN AND amala with HUmans. I merely gave an example of what I do in my daily life and many of us do anyway which I consider the main issue in this, FREEDOM OF CHOICE, no matter what the CRITERIA.


trib·al·ism (trb-lzm)
1. The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
2. A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.


You may not like it but I have great respect for people who are loyal to their tribe and beliefs. I may not agree with it and it may affect me and if it causes me harm, I believe I have a right to defend myself in that case but I still respect them for their loyalty and their beliefs. In this case, this lady decided to go with her tribal ideals over this dude and I respect her choice. I do not even know the guy enough myself to say he lost much. Heck, for all we know he may have been trying to get into her pants and her rejecting him saved her from such, WHO KNOWS , LOL I Just think we are making a big fuzz over nothing. About me being rejected for my skin color, yes I have and I have had to prove myself over and over that is how I got where I am today, I work with some of the coolest dudes in the world and they do not even see my skin color cause they know I am good at my job. I have had to deal with rejection most of my life to get to where I am today and I thank my God everyday for the opportunities He and He alone has opened for me through all that. so perish the thought that these experiences are unique to just those of you who have a problem with " TRIBALISM".

@Kobojunkie:
Two interesting statements from you:
1. "Tribalism is not wrong"
2. "there is nothing wrong with tribalism"

In contemporary discourse, the word "tribe", and hence "tribalism", do not apply to groups like the Hausas , Igbos, or Yorubas. A more appropriate term is "ethnic group". This brings us to ethnocentrism. Some views may help:
A. Ethnocentrism the feeling that one's group has a mode of living, values, and patterns of adaptation that are superior to those of other groups. It is coupled with a generalized contempt for members of other groups. Ethnocentrism may manifest itself in attitudes of superiority or sometimes hostility. Violence, discrimination, proselytizing, and verbal aggressiveness are other means whereby ethnocentrism may be expressed.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-ethnocen.html
B. Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. It is defined as the viewpoint that “one’s own group is the center of everything,” against which all other groups are judged. Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. Within this ideology, individuals will judge other groups in relation to their own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behaviour, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and sub-divisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism

Now we look at racism:
A. Racism has many definitions, the most common and widely accepted is that members of one "race" are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other "races." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
B. The belief that one 'racial group' is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination. www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/ref/gloss/glossary.html
C. discrimination on the basis of race www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/colorwater/terms.html

From Part I, Article 1 of the United Nations International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (NEW YORK 7 March 1966)
1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
2. This Convention shall not apply to distinctions, exclusions, restrictions or preferences made by a State Party to this Convention between citizens and non-citizens.
3. Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as affecting in any way the legal provisions of States Parties concerning nationality, citizenship or naturalization, provided that such provisions do not discriminate against any particular nationality.
4. Special measures taken for the sole purpose of securing adequate advancement of certain racial or ethnic groups or individuals requiring such protection as may be necessary in order to ensure such groups or individuals equal enjoyment or exercise of human rights and fundamental freedoms shall not be deemed racial discrimination, provided, however, that such measures do not, as a consequence, lead to the maintenance of separate rights for different racial groups and that they shall not be continued after the objectives for which they were taken have been achieved.
http://www.hri.org/docs/ICERD66.html


Enough with background material. Let's jump into the talk. You, Kobojunkie, from your statements, are an advocate of "tribalism". That is settled. Based on the logic you've used in justifying your advocacy for tribalism, it does not seem far-fetched to conclude that you advocate "ethnocentrism". It also seems that you advocate "racism" and "racial discrimination". If you do not advocate any of these, then there is a contradiction some where, and I'll like you to point it out.

If I change "tribalism" in your statements to "racism", would they still accurately reflect your opinion? That is, are you also saying that:
1. "Racism is not wrong"
2. "there is nothing wrong with racism"

From reading your posts, it seems that you're very insensitive to the feelings of others. Just because you've triumphed over the potentially negative emotions that discrimination brings, does not give you the right to rubbish the real emotions others (like adeniyi83) have of it. You may be a superhuman and have no feelings whatsoever when someone discriminates against you because of your ethnic origin. However, the vast majority of humans will feel bad if they are discriminated against - they are not superhumans like you. And stop saying that they are selfish! With that kind of circuitous logic, every expression of sadness, pain, or grief would be a selfish act. I mean, someone is deliberately hurt by someone else, and the victim is in pain, and all you can come up with is something like: "Stop crying, you're being selfish! You wanted the guy to miss hitting your head with the baseball bat, but he did not miss. He hit your head with the bat and that's that. It did not go the way you wanted - you're just selfish crying like that". Horrible!!!

I agree that we humans have all kinds of negative tendencies, however, the long-term goal of civilization is to separate us from those tendencies. Many of us have felt like beheading one or two people but have not done it; like screwing a neighbor's lonely wife but suppressed the thought; like calling a girl "biatch!" but have just kept quiet; like smashing an ex-boyfriend's car's windscreen but walked away. We exercise restraint on ourselves and do not act out all we want to do. Human nature is not perfect. If not for the struggles of the so-called akatas (as you referred to them), you think you'll be enjoying America as a black person today? They struggled against the human tendency to discriminate based on race and ethnicity. And today, you're enjoying from that struggle, whether you're courageous enough to admit it or not!

@Richyblack,
meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen,u r da bomb.tel them ooooooooo!

@ Kobojunkie and Davidylan, you do have a point that we are all prejudice to some point, knowingly or not. That is the simple truth for many people, in fact most people probably. I think to acknowledge some of the things we often do doesn't mean that its automatically the right way to go about things. As far as Davidylans point about not depriving people of their individual rights, sometimes "isms" do motivate people to take away a persons right. Sometimes rights are incompatible, what happens when someones supposed right to discriminate collides with another persons right not to be discriminated against?

@ Almond joy, thanks!

RichyBlacK:

I can't believe someone can say "there is nothing wrong with tribalism", go on to compare humans with amala and iyan, and then confuse "choice" with "prejudice".

@poster, fashie that babe one time! You no need that kin yeye human being for your life. Babes full ground. No waste anytime with that kin person, I take God beg you. If she no talk to you, no give am any face. Nonsense! If the babe jam solid Igbo guy, she think say the guy go get time for am? She jam solid Yoruba guy wey like am die, she dey do shakara. After when she cross thirty, she go turn born-again dey look for bobos inside church. Thunder fire her head. Forget about her immediately!

Tribalists and racists, are just people with a high dose of inferiority complex. They're usually people who have experienced discrimination in their past, and have come to see it as the only way of existing.

Richyblack, you are THE man!! Pre-ee-each it, bro'!!! I say. . . .pree-ea-ach!! Abeg, make I laugh, well. . .well!!

RichyBlacK:

You may be a superhuman and have no feelings whatsoever when someone discriminates against you because of your ethnic origin. However, the vast majority of humans will feel bad if they are discriminated against - they are not superhumans like you. And stop saying that they are selfish! With that kind of circuitous logic, every expression of sadness, pain, or grief would be a selfish act. I mean, someone is deliberately hurt by someone else, and the victim is in pain, and all you can come up with is something like: "Stop crying, you're being selfish! You wanted the guy to miss hitting your head with the baseball bat, but he did not miss. He hit your head with the bat and that's that. It did not go the way you wanted - you're just selfish crying like that". Horrible!!!

I agree that we humans have all kinds of negative tendencies, however, the long-term goal of civilization is to separate us from those tendencies. Many of us have felt like beheading one or two people but have not done it; like screwing a neighbor's lonely wife but suppressed the thought; like calling a girl "biatch!" but have just kept quiet; like smashing an ex-boyfriend's car's windscreen but walked away. We exercise restraint on ourselves and do not act out all we want to do. Human nature is not perfect. If not for the struggles of the so-called akatas (as you referred to them), you think you'll be enjoying America as a black person today? They struggled against the human tendency to discriminate based on race and ethnicity. And today, you're enjoying from that struggle, whether you're courageous enough to admit it or not!

WORD!! That was deep, man!! Thank you for expressing it all so well.  Nothing more to add.

londoner:

you do have a point that we are all prejudice to some point, knowingly or not. That is the simple truth for many people, in fact most people probably. I think to acknowledge some of the things we often do doesn't mean that its automatically the right way to go about things. As far as Davidylans point about not depriving people of their individual rights, sometimes "isms" do motivate people to take away a persons right. Sometimes rights are incompatible, what happens when someones supposed right to discriminate collides with another persons right not to be discriminated against?

Hmmmn. . . . . .true! In other words, the freedom to swing your arms ends where my nose begins.

Happy Birthday, Adeniyi

Aint crying, am just pissed @ the girl's attitude. This is not the first time i am experiecing it; though on other occassion was from uneducated people, but from educated person; its totally crazy.

I was once told by my teacher education was not just books; but also morals.

Whatnext, thanx so much. Atleast, a message of goodwill from 'the battle front'.

adeniyi83:

Aint crying, am just pissed @ the girl's attitude. This is not the first time i am experiecing it; though on other occassion was from uneducated people, but from educated person; its totally crazy.

I was once told by my teacher education was not just books; but also morals.

Your teacher was very correct, o jare! And I do hope people would stop thinking good behaviour is solely influenced by this "education" thingy. . . .I have seen university professors exhibiting naked tribalism & nepotism, right within the ivory tower. True!!

TRIBALISM IN NIGERIA: STRENGTHENING THE CURATIVE ELEMENTS

The contemporary Europe is undoubtedly a bastion of peace, economic and political stability. A situation, which sharply contrasted with the war-torn medieval period of the Hapsburgs and the Martin Luthers. The willingness to rise above ethnic and religious sentiments has ushered in a new era, What has emerged is a successful, big and united Europe of nation states, devoid of the differences in tribe and tongue.

And looking at her geo-political, socio and economic arrangements, one would say that lessons learnt from the past, have helped to shape those ideals.

A people united by a sense of history, culture and race, effectively protecting whatever is European or Caucasian interest. Grass-root inter-cultural exchanges, between youths of the respective states have helped to cement that bond. In such a way, that they are strategically aimed to promote unity, and cultural awareness.

Instances abound of native Belgians, with Greek, Russian, Italian and Spanish first names and vice versa. On the other hand, equal opportunities for French families with non-French surnames, are no longer news and vice versa. It is interesting to note, that the sense of the "One Europe" is continentally spread, and the leaders are ever busy entrenching the values on their respective population. Some of the results could be seen when the Oscar Lafontains and the Michael Portillos, stood to be elected in different top political positions in Germany and Britain respectively.

On a smaller political front; one major reason why Nigeria was yet to achieve a true "One Nigeria", has been the implicit use of "ethnic difference" as a weapon by politicians across the land, to discredit one another. Most recent example, was the molestation of the Vice President in Lagos, by some young PDP members of Lagos state, led by one Muyiwa Collins. Quite a regrettable incident. Nigeria's failure to improve on ethnic relationship beyond that of the level of their illiterate forebears, have continued to be an embarrassment. Time after time, one is compelled to question the ethnic intolerance that has pervaded a nation, whose forebears were evidently hospitable in that regard,


Descendants of freed slaves from Brazil, and those, whose freedom ships berthed in Sierra-Leone, were warmly welcomed. Their assimilation into port cities such as Onitsha, Warri, Lagos (Eko) and Port-Harcourt, was quite historic. DNA wasn't then around, and most probably, wouldn't have been considered if it had existed.

In the Elizabethan period, people were evidently free to choose and live where ever they wanted to. A tradition which must have given birth to many settlements, without the resentment of the aboriginal inhabitants. In Igboland for example, Migrant farmers and fishermen from Nupe, Igala and Jukun settled peacefully amongst the locals, which is why some 35% of the present Anambra state communities, trace their origins to Igala. In the middle-belt and Yoruba hinterland, one would still find such families and communities, that were of different origins.

So the question is: From whom did Nigerians of today inherit ethnic hatred? Certainly not from their forefathers. Therefore, the lack of finesse, ethnic and intra-ethnic tolerance, could rightly be said to be precipitated by the modern political parameters, enmeshed not really in the service of humanity, but materialism.

Evidences have shown, that political upheavals associated with ethnicity have in most cases, in their aftermath, positively reshaped their victims world view. The racial ideologies of the pre and post war Germans differ a lot, attesting to the fact. But, the last Nigerian civil war, and the routine ethnic massacres have all failed to change the mind-set of Nigerians. This is very sad, happening in a nation that boasts of the highest number of intellectuals in Africa. Such unabated ethnic jingoism, would continue to make the Nigerian nation-hood look like a "Rwanda" in waiting.

A closer look at the other African nations would indicate that they have fared better than Nigeria in this regard. Black South Africans, by virtue of their turbulent history, or otherwise have been so lucky to have a different political mind-set, entrenched rather, in black national consciousness. Quest for a South African president of this or that extraction was no longer necessary. To the extent that a South African of Nigerian Igbo extraction, got elected to the National Assembly for that matter. What a good start!

More evidence of the South African political maturity have shown in the last two presidential elections, in which the aspirants from the ruling ANC weren't from the majority Zulu tribe. The same would be said of Ghana, Togo and the Republic of Benin, where the various ethnic groups have lived in peace for centuries, without resorting to occasional "butchering" of one another. If Mr.Rawlings of Ghana were to be a Nigerian, God knows what would have been his fate. Ghana is a well known bastion of peace, some of whose ethnic groups traced their origins to different parts of the present day Nigeria.

In hindsight, the people of Nigeria, have always looked for the things that divide them, than unite them as a people. In view of the volatility of matters relating to ethnicity, It has become pertinent to tap on the natural facts that have the potentials to create unity. Those facts should be proudly articulated and developed as the basis for a virile and enduring society.

Most of the lower Middle-belt and southern Nigerian languages are of the Kwa language group. So many phonetic similarities abound in them, and sometimes do translate to similar meanings. It is not uncommon to hear such names as Ochefu, Ikwue, Agaba-idu, Ukpo, Ochi etc., amongst the Idoma and Igbo. Such corroborates the legend of the affinity of Aro-Chukwu and Idoma, and on the other hand, the Onojas of Ogrugu Nnsuka and Igala (Afigbo,1981 Ahiajioku lectures). In all, It further presses home the theory that they probably might have broken away from the Igbo, sometime in the distant past.

Also, between the Igbo and Yoruba, existed many striking phonetic similarities: the existence of towns in Yoruba land with "Igbo" appended to them, such as Igbo-Ora, Igbomina, Ijebu-Igbo etc. Ekiti or Etiti in Igbo, Okuta (stone) or Okwute in Igbo etc.

All these, plus the history of the autochtonous Igbo people of Ile-Ife, who were defeated and driven away reveals a lot. And that underlines the fact, that the people of this part of the world, have long been living and relating to one another in unquantifiable ways. And these should be the basis to celebrate that common heritage.

For instance, the "Edi" festival that the Yoruba mark to celebrate the defeat of the aboriginal Igbo people of Ile-Ife is perfectly in order. But, I'm of the opinion, that the event should be made to gain more national awareness, to serve as a unifying element in the context of one Nigeria. One thing should be made clear: there was, and have been only one Igbo people known to mankind. And it's no other Igbo, than the Igbo we all know today.

So, by creating the awareness, the younger generation would have been helped to understand that their history was interwoven with one another. Thereby, eliminating the "stranger" mentality on both sides, and creating a sound basis for ethnic tolerance. Take a look at the Internet chat-rooms, and see the venom Nigerians are pouring on one another, fortifying ethnic positions. And these are the leaders of tomorrow?

Language, as a unifying element has done pretty well in the North. The preponderance of Hausa, a Chadian language, as the lingua franca has served as a soothing balm for ethnic relationship. A native Hausa from Sokoto, quickly finds a peaceful home among the Gwari-speakers 700 km south, and vice versa. It is worth celebrating as a unifying heritage. But again, should not be used as an instrument, by its native speakers to advance selfish and dangerous goals. Such that may not be in the interest of the language's majority non-native speakers.

And for the language being synonymous with Islam, It is incumbent upon the Hausa elites to continue to enlighten the adherents of the Islamic faith. The "Almajiris", for instance, who beg for alms, and are first to be recruited to "butcher" those who gave it to them, needed to be informed that Islam and Christianity were of the same Abrahamic family. Perhaps, the idea to worship in one building, but in different sections "Cathedral mosque", as is currently done somewhere in Ghana may be considered

On the other hand, the Igbo, as the major migratory birds in Nigeria seem to understand the prerequisites; majority of whom are multi-lingual, non-violent and do contribute financially to the welfare of their host communities. But again, they need to adopt more "likeable" attitudes. This is very vital! Retired, Chief Justice Oputa, recently cautioned on what he described as "boastful" behaviour of his kinsmen. While the high commercial activities in their area, have attracted other Nigerians, who have similarly called the South East and parts of the Igbo South South their home, more work is needed to be done on the public relation front.

Finally, strategic decisions by all Eze-Ndigbo in every Nigerian community should include; increase in the invitation of non Igbos to their annual New-yam festival. In the long term, such intimation will produce a good social mix, and less ethnic tension. Just as Christmas has become a race-blind event, so too, could New-yam festival, with time, effort and the right social behaviour, turn out to be an all-Nigerian carnival. Hence, creating the much needed atmosphere for a peaceful co-existence. There are lots of evidences which suggests, that majority of the present day Nigerians could be distant cousins. And that should be a source of strength.

Source- http://nigeriaworld.com/articles/2006/apr/101.html

RichyBlacK:


Enough with background material. Let's jump into the talk. You, Kobojunkie, from your statements, are an advocate of "tribalism". That is settled. Based on the logic you've used in justifying your advocacy for tribalism, it does not seem far-fetched to conclude that you advocate "ethnocentrism". It also seems that you advocate "racism" and "racial discrimination". If you do not advocate any of these, then there is a contradiction some where, and I'll like you to point it out.

If I change "tribalism" in your statements to "racism", would they still accurately reflect your opinion? That is, are you also saying that:
1. "Racism is not wrong"
2. "there is nothing wrong with racism"

From reading your posts, it seems that you're very insensitive to the feelings of others. Just because you've triumphed over the potentially negative emotions that discrimination brings, does not give you the right to rubbish the real emotions others (like adeniyi83) have of it. You may be a superhuman and have no feelings whatsoever when someone discriminates against you because of your ethnic origin. However, the vast majority of humans will feel bad if they are discriminated against - they are not superhumans like you. And stop saying that they are selfish! With that kind of circuitous logic, every expression of sadness, pain, or grief would be a selfish act. I mean, someone is deliberately hurt by someone else, and the victim is in pain, and all you can come up with is something like: "Stop crying, you're being selfish! You wanted the guy to miss hitting your head with the baseball bat, but he did not miss. He hit your head with the bat and that's that. It did not go the way you wanted - you're just selfish crying like that". Horrible!!!

I agree that we humans have all kinds of negative tendencies, however, the long-term goal of civilization is to separate us from those tendencies. Many of us have felt like beheading one or two people but have not done it; like screwing a neighbor's lonely wife but suppressed the thought; like calling a girl "biatch!" but have just kept quiet; like smashing an ex-boyfriend's car's windscreen but walked away. We exercise restraint on ourselves and do not act out all we want to do. Human nature is not perfect. If not for the struggles of the so-called akatas (as you referred to them), you think you'll be enjoying America as a black person today? They struggled against the human tendency to discriminate based on race and ethnicity. And today, you're enjoying from that struggle, whether you're courageous enough to admit it or not!

Did you get all that from reading my posts or trying to READ INTO MY POSTS @RichyBlack  Please can we stick to the topic here The Fact stands,  I do not agree with his take on TRIBALISM being the problem. I believe She has a right to Decide if He is good enough for her or not and she picked tribal factors to push it on, simple. And Do I hate her for that,  NO cause I believe she has a right to choose as she wants to. Now about the whole some of us have at one time or another thought of bashing another's head in but have practised restraint instead, that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with freedom of choice as I chose to address it and you know it. Fact remains that she had a choice to make and she made it and he heard tribe was the issue. I am not Boohooing the dude,  I am simply giving my take on it. TO call me Racist?? Well,  that would matter if I believe there is any such thing as race when it comes to humans so in my world,  that word does not apply cause I see all persons as being same and we are all raised differently and look different. I do respect being who are tribalistic and I  helped above, I posted the very dictionary meaning of the word itself. If an indian girl told us that she would not matter her friend cause he is american, I am sure many would understand her, why not understand the case here of this girl refusing this boy cause he is not of the same tribe??


HERE is my take on Racism , since you bring it up yourself. We are all racist to some level, whether we want to accept it or not. Those who focus so much on the topic end up doing their own selves in as I see it as I do Jealousy, both sides Loose. I mean you used the black americans for example vs the whites. I will use it this way. The majority of the blacks I have met who go on and on about how racist whites are do not see the monster eating up at them at all. They are more like bitter people who are consumed by this monster and most everything they think of is under the control of the monster. The racist on the other hand has the same issues, he is seriously limited in his thinking and majority of the time can not see far ahead of where his racist side can. I choose not to even bother myself with thoughts of the monster and so racism, may exist but I instead choose to take situations as they present themselves.

I know we can play the HERO and UNDERDOG game in here but fact remains,  She did not want him and Tribe was her reason. Should he blame TRIBALISM? I would think not but if he wants to do that, that is fine by me but I do not have to Agree with him cause I do not see the world as he does. Do I think the girl did the right thing ?? ABSOLUTELY, why?? cause it is her life and she exercised her right as a human to choice to get involved with someone she did not want to based on whatever standard she so chose to apply in the case and I greatly respect her for that. Simple!!

londoner:

@ Kobojunkie and Davidylan, you do have a point that we are all prejudice to some point, knowingly or not. That is the simple truth for many people, in fact most people probably. I think to acknowledge some of the things we often do doesn't mean that its automatically the right way to go about things. As far as Davidylans point about not depriving people of their individual rights, sometimes "isms" do motivate people to take away a persons right. Sometimes rights are incompatible, what happens when someones supposed right to discriminate collides with another persons right not to be discriminated against?

The reason I point out that this situation among many is simple a matter of her being able to make a choice as a human being. @Londoner,  Now for the case of right and wrong ,  Do you ever notice how it is mostly right when it favours us even though it might inconvenience the other In this case, if we turn the cards around a bit, say it was the girl posting above that she would not date a yoruba man cause she wants to remain loyal to her tribe, I believe this debate would have gone way differently. Or say a black american girl posted that she just could not get herself to date a white guy, the story would have been completely different as I believe many would tell her it is ok. But in this case this is the dude now here to say he was rejected cause he was not of the right tribe for her and BOOM,  we are all against her But is she really wrong when in this case,  this is not about us or anyone else but her own life and she made her choice and use tribe as he reason. I mean it is not like she is deciding if the man get's to live or die based on his tribe. She is SIMPLY MAKING A DECISION TO FORE GO GETTING HIM INTO HER LIFE CAUSE OF HIS TRIBE. I mean if She were to, right after him go out with an HAUSA Man,  would she still be TRIBALISTIC AND EVIL  As for the other, Claiming this has to do with racism and ethnocentrism is to make this so much bigger than it actually is. All she did is decide to opt out of having a relationship with this one dude cause he is not her type, the next hausa man who comes her way may be her type, who knows,

Kobojunkie:


The reason I point out that this situation among many is simple a matter of her being able to make a choice as a human being. @Londoner,  Now for the case of right and wrong ,  Do you ever notice how it is mostly right when it favours us even though it might inconvenience the other In this case, if we turn the cards around a bit, say it was the girl posting above that she would not date a yoruba man cause she wants to remain loyal to her tribe, I believe this debate would have gone way differently. Or say a black american girl posted that she just could not get herself to date a white guy, the story would have been completely different as I believe many would tell her it is ok. But in this case this is the dude now here to say he was rejected cause he was not of the right tribe for her and BOOM,  we are all against her But is she really wrong when in this case,  this is not about us or anyone else but her own life and she made her choice and use tribe as he reason. I mean it is not like she is deciding if the man get's to live or die based on his tribe. She is SIMPLY MAKING A DECISION TO FORE GO GETTING HIM INTO HER LIFE CAUSE OF HIS TRIBE. I mean if She were to, right after him go out with an HAUSA Man,  would she still be TRIBALISTIC AND EVIL  As for the other, Claiming this has to do with racism and ethnocentrism is to make this so much bigger than it actually is. All she did is decide to opt out of having a relationship with this one dude cause he is not her type, the next hausa man who comes her way may be her type, who knows,

If someone came here and said they are Igbo and met a Yoruba guy that she actually liked, but wanted to stop talking to him because she found out he was Yoruba, I doubt many people would say she should go ahead.  If a Black American woman came here and said she wants to date Black, but she met a man she liked who is White, I doubt people would advise her to stop talking to him.

I do get your point though, many of us, including myself have ideals when it comes to a  partner. That doesn't mean she can't talk to him though, they are still coworkers and it sounds as if he has done nothing to her personally. At the very least she should have kept that info to herself.

Well, if you read what he said, he OVERHEARD the conversation she was having with someone else on the issue. It is not that he actually got first hand details from her as to why. I mean the short we get is that according to what he heard, that is all to it. Even to me that short does not make complete sense, or even enough sense for him to claim tribalism is the issue. For one, he did not even mention where he happens to be.

adeniyi83 (m)
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Why Are Nigerians So Tribalistic?
« on: October 03, 2007, 11:50 AM »

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Why are Nigerians tribalistic?

I met a chic when i just started working in my office, we got a a little close and when she found out that i was Yoruba, she stopped talking to me. I later overheard her telling a fellow Igbo collegue that she didn't know i was Yoruba, considering that i am light skinned.


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If she is in Lagos, then I believe she can not be deemed tribalistic at all cause she is among yorubas and at one time or another she WILL HAVE TO converse with other yorubas. If he happened to be in an Igbo area where the only Yoruba's she has been exposed to have not really given her something good to go with, she has a right to decide to completely stay away from yorubas. It could also be that she discovered something about him that she found appalling and decided instead of telling the other employee the truth, to just make him go away by telling him it was just tribe. I don't believe we know enough of the story to actually say TRIBALISM is the issue.

Kobo, you are a damn tribalist. People like you ain't fit to live in a civilised society. I heard her say it clearly.

Now this is another thing about the whole arguement, if you are not for his view, you are evil and not fit to live among the civilized?? yet I do and I love my life and enjoy the people around me ,

adeniyi83:

Aint crying, am just pissed @ the girl's attitude. This is not the first time i am experiecing it; though on other occassion was from uneducated people, but from educated person; its totally crazy.
I was once told by my teacher education was not just books; but also morals.

@adeniyi83

Once again, thanks for bringing us back to the topic!  No one is discussing our "choice" or "preferences" over a certain idea or person.  The bone of contention here is Tribalism--or baseless assumption that one tribe is better than another in terms of who to associate with.  How someone just discounts or favors you on the basis of coming from a particular tribe---without even getting to know what your think and feel about issues.  


This is very common in Nigeria.  Just the fact that the "girl" mentioned that she did not know you were "yoruba"  is tribalistic.  What has that got to do with you meeting her and just having a social engagement? Should have seen you as a person first then wait for the manifestations later. This is after personally giving you the benefit of the doubt that your accounts of the events are accurate.

As for all the long talk about everyone being prejudiced or tribal to a certain degree--Yes! Now that is what we have to make a conscious effort to get rid of. It is there alright, but what you choose to do with it is another story.  It is not only when it infringes on the liberty and rights of others that it becomes a problem.  You are limiting your own rights and benefits from intergrating with others different from you.  Now, how can that not be a sad thing? Your mind subconsciously becomes a cocoon. Impenetrable and lacking objectivity.

Tribalism or Racism in any form has no benefits.  Because it has nothing to do with having love for your own tribe or race--but everything to do with thinking yours is superior to others-in Nigeria period! No matter how we try to hide the fact--it always shows! So let us not get too intellectual about a "local" or "domestic" Nigerian problem that cuts across all works of life.

@Adeniyi, the article you posted, while informative, suggests a rosey picture of relations amongst Europeans, Ghanaians and South African tribes. Scratch the surface and you will find tribalism and racism in all its forms.

Its not a Nigerian trait, its a human tendancy.

almondjoy:

As for all the long talk about everyone being prejucided or tribal to a certain degree--Yes!  But it is not only when it infringes on the liberty and rights of other that it becomes a problem.  You are limiting your own rights and benefits from intergrating with others different from you.  Now, how can that not be a sad thing?

How does a woman's conscious right to choose her mate based on mundane issues such as race, height, wealth status, aesthetic qualities e.t.c. infringing on your rights and liberties?

Would you marry an ugly woman or a prostitute? Is that not limiting the rights and benefits of prostitutes from integrating with others different from them?

Happy Brithday Adeniyi,

davidylan:

How does a woman's conscious right to choose her mate based on mundane issues such as race, height, wealth status, aesthetic qualities e.t.c. infringing on your rights and liberties?

Erm. . . .it infringes on the other person's right to be chosen?? Or it infringes on his liberty to be assesed purely on his own merits as a warm, rational, considerate human being, instead of just another faceless man from X ethnic group, who may be seen as likely to exhibit certain peculiar traits, based on the fact that he just happens to come from that group? Or it deprives the guy of the chance to widen his circle of friends, by adding her to the list? Alright, am joking.

But the truth still remains. . . .what that girl did was 'discrimination'. . .pure & simple. We may try to 'sugar-coat' any way, we like. You are free to see it as 'freedom of choice'. And I'm free to see it as discrimination based on tribal or ethnic grounds.

End of story!

Thank you, Londoner

davidylan:

How does a woman's conscious right to choose her mate based on mundane issues such as race, height, wealth status, aesthetic qualities e.t.c. infringing on your rights and liberties?

Would you marry an ugly woman or a prostitute? Is that not limiting the rights and benefits of prostitutes from integrating with others different from them?

This is not the topic here david.  The lady said quote on quote from the poster's initial entry that she did not know the poster was "yoruba".  So?  This is just a platonic meeting.    Now you do not think that was uncalled for?  Did she go around making note of all the non-yoruba folks around the place?

We are not talking of chosing a marriage partner.  Now you are really taking this topic to some humorous angle--talking of infringing rights of prostitutes and ugly people.  We are talking "tribes" david--tribes!

@adeniyi83,

Happy Birthday!

Nna, make you smile and enjoy yourself this weekend! As per dat babe, I don tell you finish, forget am one time. You no need am for your life.

Hey Richy, thanx so much, i hope to hang out with my peeps and catch some bottles after work.

@adeniyi83

Is this your real birthday or your Nairaland birthday?