dahonestboss: @herakari

1. since Biblical morality, and the assertion that a God is responsbile for defining and dictating actions as moral by many Christians is a point of contention and is frequently used in arguments on the matter. This issue is compounded by the fact that the morality as defined by the Old Testament is different than the morality defined by the New Testament which is different than the morality exercised by most people today (in general, people today believe the Bible is immoral, including many Christians on many points such as slavery, the killing of homosexuals, and so forth).

As an atheist, if you are to be consistent, then as I see it, two scenarios follow depending on what you believe. If you are a moral relativist (you do not judge other cultures, such as the Iranians, because their moral code is different than your own), then you must necessarily also not use the morality argument as a reason to be an atheist – simply because the morality of Scripture was practiced by a now extinct culture does not mean it alone can be judged. If you believe in universal morality, then the answer to another question becomes central to your belief system: who or what determines which actions are moral and which are not? This is my dilemma. I do believe in absolute morals, but I cannot reconcile the fact that I do not trust any human being, no matter how smart they are, including myself, to prescribe to me what is moral and what is not. Sure, I go by my gut, and I consider myself a pretty moral person, but I am also not so arrogant to believe that I uniquely know what is moral and what is not especially since I will readily acknowledge that the older I get the more moral I become – actions I would have considered moral 10 years ago I consider immoral today, so how am I sure that I will not also think that actions I take today as moral will not be immoral to me 10 years from now?

I have seen a few atheist writings about this topic that attempt to create some logical formula for judging an action, such as this one from ebonmusing: “Always minimize both actual and potential suffering; always maximize both actual and potential happiness.“

I am not convinced. Although his essay is thorough and attempts to explain how and why morality can be universal and where it comes from, I don’t buy most of it, nor do I even think his rule is valid. I have several simple examples which defeat it, and I’ll post them in a comment if you can’t come up with them on your own (they are trivial).

This example shouldn’t distract you from the fact that question above still isn’t sufficiently answered. Think on it. I think you’ll be hard pressed.

2.What I mean is this: how much do you actually know about the science most atheists parrot? Most atheists know as little science as most Christians know as little theology. Just as a Christian trusts his priest to tell him what he believes, an atheist trusts scientists with a Ph.D. tacked to their name to tell them what they believe. But how many times have the scientists turned out to be wrong? I only ask this because it seems this is central to the problem that most atheists have. They are repulsed by the phrase “believe” – they are addicted instead to the phrase “know”. But honestly, do you really know, or are you just believing what you’re told? I would like to remind you that in the 1970′s the scientists of the day were seriously concerned that we were about to enter an ice age, and less than 30 years later they are now convinced Earth is about to turn into a desert.

Unless you’ve observed something yourself, or observed and interpreted the evidence yourself and drew your own conclusions, you are just as guilty as faith as any religious person. I will demonstrate this fact by asking you, the atheist, the following questions.

These are all questions that would typically appear on a 100 level biological anthropology couse taught in universities around the world. They relate to your favorite topic: evolution. I will post the answers (and the reasons why you should believe me) at the bottom of the post:

Name the major extinct hominid species from which human beings are presently believed to have evolved.
How long ago did the modern human (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) come into existence?
How long ago did early hominids leave Africa?
How long ago did hominids split from the other primates?
Which biological feature is believed to be the most important in the evolution of man, and why?
Name one phyisical trait or behavior that is unique to the genus Homo.
Who were the neanderthals? Where did they live, when did they live, and why are they gone?
A major event occurred approximately 70,000 years ago very relevant to the evolution of humanity. What was the event, and why is it significant?
If you can’t answer these questions, I think my point is illustrated. And please don’t dwell on the fact that even if you don’t know the answers, the answers exist. Because if you could answer these questions you would know enough to know how little we actually know about these topics.

3. so what are your proof to your common sense ? since you dont believe in science, did the world just came up by itself ? for example, if you are walking by the road and you saw a pen, did it just appeared ther by itself ? did the sun and the moon just came up ? without any supremembeing behind it to make it happpen? your eyes processes millions of colours in less than a milli seconds, your DNA process over billions of codes, how would you classified these or make me believe that there are no God to mke all these things works out? your common sense is the cause of your believe, its deceiving you bro, step up

4. you are very wrong, very very wrong. you common sense as you,ve always claim has made you blind to see. i should be given you proof of these, but it would soon be classified as scam by you, so whats the need ? unless you wont

5. if you said that i culled it from somewhere, can you tell me what is wrong with that? you should answer them regardless of where it came from.
This belief is fundamental to the atheist position. You must answer yes to this question or you have a very hard time denying most, if not all, religious beliefs. However, you should also see how absurd this statement is. The fact that it is always impossible to prove that something does not exist does not change the fact that it cannot be known that something doesn’t exist. So mustn’t you be agnostic? I’ve heard responses to this one too, but they have so far been illegitimate and unsatisfying.

6.i said ''what does the atheism position offer you? NOT what does the atheist religion offer you ? get it right. and why on earth would you believe that ''because finland, etc is not a christian country, thats why their standard of living is so high'' ? I live in Finland, and if you say that they dont practice religion here, then you are a big liar and makes me doubt any of your next post.
there are many world developed countries out there that practice christianity and are still developed. it should not be a basis of your argument.

7. your common sense is deceiving you. pls deal with fact and not what you are mde to believe by your common sense

8. I have heard very few atheists intelligently debate this issue without bringing up the Bible. Let’s assume that it is totally allegorical and Christians didn’t literally believe in Jesus and believed only that the Bible books were stories told by God to illustrate his word. Would this change how you viewed the belief in God? If not, why not?

9. now you are passing through the corner

10. I saved the best for last. I want you to think long and hard about this. We have as little or less evidence that E.T. landed in Roswell than any evidence we have for the truth in any part of the Bible and yet almost every single atheist I meet believes that we are not alone in the universe despite there being no evidence whatsoever. They hand-wave me to death with stories like, “even if only one in a trillion stars had planets and only one in a trillion planets had life and only one in a trillion planets with life hosted intelligent life there would still be eleventy-gazillion earths in the universe”, or they make up fairy tales about Area 51.

If you are an atheist, I am going to require that you also do not believe in E.T. And if you acknowledge that E.T. has not been observed but is likely to exist, I demand that you also acknowledge that God has not been observed but is likely to exist.

have you think the bible is written by ordinary men? many of the things that were in the bible are all coming to pass, the bible is so complete and its the best and widely read book in the world. pls correct your common sense, it goes beyond that.

WAITING

Morality is culturally defined of what's acceptable and what's not. Not good and bad. I think all acts have the inherent value of either being good or bad. Its not left to culture or gods.

The problem with the bible is; as long as it records extraordinary events as true, its always going to be false. The bible doesn't seem considered in separating the truth from superstition. The beauty in Science is how it works. Its assumptions are simple and basic, follows the nature of reality and knowledge. It accepts the need to filter facts from errors.

Common sense deals with very simple premises: I exist. Everyone uses it.

As to the Paley's watch and your pen: I agree every complexity requires a simpler cause, not everything requires a cause. Existence/Reality wouldn't require one. If the universe is broken down to the most basic bits (the background/material that forms everything), I would say those bits are our Cause.

God is anything, thus must be defined. I'm an atheist to well defined gods/religions like Islam.

Commonsense and Reason = thinking. Faith = is definitely not thinking.

Kay 17:

Morality is culturally defined of what's acceptable and what's not. Not good and bad. I think all acts have the inherent value of either being good or bad. Its not left to culture or gods.

The problem with the bible is; as long as it records extraordinary events as true, its always going to be false. The bible doesn't seem considered in separating the truth from superstition. The beauty in Science is how it works. Its assumptions are simple and basic, follows the nature of reality and knowledge. It accepts the need to filter facts from errors.

Common sense deals with very simple premises: I exist. Everyone uses it.

As to the Paley's watch and your pen: I agree every complexity requires a simpler cause, not everything requires a cause. Existence/Reality wouldn't require one. If the universe is broken down to the most basic bits (the background/material that forms everything), I would say those bits are our Cause.

God is anything, thus must be defined. I'm an atheist to well defined gods/religions like Islam.

Commonsense and Reason = thinking. Faith = is definitely not thinking.

Nice one.

Enigma:

Not my problem. I simply reiterate that evangelical atheism in particular has been proven conclusively to be a religion --- from intellectual and legal/judicial perspectives.


By the way it is threadS not thread.

I actually saw that as a continuous rant from you.

Of course you would --- but deep down you know the home truths touched where they were meant to touch.

Talking of rants, are you blind to the daily rants of you and fellow evangelical atheists?

Kay 17:
I actually saw that as a continuous rant from you.

LOL. . . .

kinesis: it wud be stupid to say i have not tesed what am saying. i dont js go behind d scene and come out with a phenomenal statement without backing. my personal experience with God, coupled by so many other factor have made me draw a conclusion that God exists. and its okay if u refuse to refute it. then u might as well say spirituality doesnt exist. u crave for knowledge that u cannot understand. yeah i know u need to understand everything but given the fact that u r God, how do u xpect mere mortals to understand ur existence

and as for theist being annoying, i think they r d most open people. it is the atheists that never want to listen, they only do to disprove the opinions of theists. so i find they on the verge of insanity, craving for too much knowledge. the science we all study will eventually equate with religion or christianity as i might say, but for some, it may be too late to reconsider their steps.

i have listened to atheist from my 100 level in skul nd still do not understand why they disprove Gods existence when it is staring them in the face.

What test did you carry out about your god? Put your test out here let us analyse it and see how factual it is.

dahonestboss: @herakari

1. since Biblical morality, and the assertion that a God is responsbile for defining and dictating actions as moral by many Christians is a point of contention and is frequently used in arguments on the matter. This issue is compounded by the fact that the morality as defined by the Old Testament is different than the morality defined by the New Testament which is different than the morality exercised by most people today (in general, people today believe the Bible is immoral, including many Christians on many points such as slavery, the killing of homosexuals, and so forth).

As an atheist, if you are to be consistent, then as I see it, two scenarios follow depending on what you believe. If you are a moral relativist (you do not judge other cultures, such as the Iranians, because their moral code is different than your own), then you must necessarily also not use the morality argument as a reason to be an atheist – simply because the morality of Scripture was practiced by a now extinct culture does not mean it alone can be judged. If you believe in universal morality, then the answer to another question becomes central to your belief system: who or what determines which actions are moral and which are not? This is my dilemma. I do believe in absolute morals, but I cannot reconcile the fact that I do not trust any human being, no matter how smart they are, including myself, to prescribe to me what is moral and what is not. Sure, I go by my gut, and I consider myself a pretty moral person, but I am also not so arrogant to believe that I uniquely know what is moral and what is not especially since I will readily acknowledge that the older I get the more moral I become – actions I would have considered moral 10 years ago I consider immoral today, so how am I sure that I will not also think that actions I take today as moral will not be immoral to me 10 years from now?

I have seen a few atheist writings about this topic that attempt to create some logical formula for judging an action, such as this one from ebonmusing: “Always minimize both actual and potential suffering; always maximize both actual and potential happiness.“

I am not convinced. Although his essay is thorough and attempts to explain how and why morality can be universal and where it comes from, I don’t buy most of it, nor do I even think his rule is valid. I have several simple examples which defeat it, and I’ll post them in a comment if you can’t come up with them on your own (they are trivial).

This example shouldn’t distract you from the fact that question above still isn’t sufficiently answered. Think on it. I think you’ll be hard pressed.

2.What I mean is this: how much do you actually know about the science most atheists parrot? Most atheists know as little science as most Christians know as little theology. Just as a Christian trusts his priest to tell him what he believes, an atheist trusts scientists with a Ph.D. tacked to their name to tell them what they believe. But how many times have the scientists turned out to be wrong? I only ask this because it seems this is central to the problem that most atheists have. They are repulsed by the phrase “believe” – they are addicted instead to the phrase “know”. But honestly, do you really know, or are you just believing what you’re told? I would like to remind you that in the 1970′s the scientists of the day were seriously concerned that we were about to enter an ice age, and less than 30 years later they are now convinced Earth is about to turn into a desert.

Unless you’ve observed something yourself, or observed and interpreted the evidence yourself and drew your own conclusions, you are just as guilty as faith as any religious person. I will demonstrate this fact by asking you, the atheist, the following questions.

These are all questions that would typically appear on a 100 level biological anthropology couse taught in universities around the world. They relate to your favorite topic: evolution. I will post the answers (and the reasons why you should believe me) at the bottom of the post:

Name the major extinct hominid species from which human beings are presently believed to have evolved.
How long ago did the modern human (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) come into existence?
How long ago did early hominids leave Africa?
How long ago did hominids split from the other primates?
Which biological feature is believed to be the most important in the evolution of man, and why?
Name one phyisical trait or behavior that is unique to the genus Homo.
Who were the neanderthals? Where did they live, when did they live, and why are they gone?
A major event occurred approximately 70,000 years ago very relevant to the evolution of humanity. What was the event, and why is it significant?
If you can’t answer these questions, I think my point is illustrated. And please don’t dwell on the fact that even if you don’t know the answers, the answers exist. Because if you could answer these questions you would know enough to know how little we actually know about these topics.

3. so what are your proof to your common sense ? since you dont believe in science, did the world just came up by itself ? for example, if you are walking by the road and you saw a pen, did it just appeared ther by itself ? did the sun and the moon just came up ? without any supremembeing behind it to make it happpen? your eyes processes millions of colours in less than a milli seconds, your DNA process over billions of codes, how would you classified these or make me believe that there are no God to mke all these things works out? your common sense is the cause of your believe, its deceiving you bro, step up

4. you are very wrong, very very wrong. you common sense as you,ve always claim has made you blind to see. i should be given you proof of these, but it would soon be classified as scam by you, so whats the need ? unless you wont

5. if you said that i culled it from somewhere, can you tell me what is wrong with that? you should answer them regardless of where it came from.
This belief is fundamental to the atheist position. You must answer yes to this question or you have a very hard time denying most, if not all, religious beliefs. However, you should also see how absurd this statement is. The fact that it is always impossible to prove that something does not exist does not change the fact that it cannot be known that something doesn’t exist. So mustn’t you be agnostic? I’ve heard responses to this one too, but they have so far been illegitimate and unsatisfying.

6.i said ''what does the atheism position offer you? NOT what does the atheist religion offer you ? get it right. and why on earth would you believe that ''because finland, etc is not a christian country, thats why their standard of living is so high'' ? I live in Finland, and if you say that they dont practice religion here, then you are a big liar and makes me doubt any of your next post.
there are many world developed countries out there that practice christianity and are still developed. it should not be a basis of your argument.

7. your common sense is deceiving you. pls deal with fact and not what you are mde to believe by your common sense

8. I have heard very few atheists intelligently debate this issue without bringing up the Bible. Let’s assume that it is totally allegorical and Christians didn’t literally believe in Jesus and believed only that the Bible books were stories told by God to illustrate his word. Would this change how you viewed the belief in God? If not, why not?

9. now you are passing through the corner

10. I saved the best for last. I want you to think long and hard about this. We have as little or less evidence that E.T. landed in Roswell than any evidence we have for the truth in any part of the Bible and yet almost every single atheist I meet believes that we are not alone in the universe despite there being no evidence whatsoever. They hand-wave me to death with stories like, “even if only one in a trillion stars had planets and only one in a trillion planets had life and only one in a trillion planets with life hosted intelligent life there would still be eleventy-gazillion earths in the universe”, or they make up fairy tales about Area 51.

If you are an atheist, I am going to require that you also do not believe in E.T. And if you acknowledge that E.T. has not been observed but is likely to exist, I demand that you also acknowledge that God has not been observed but is likely to exist.

have you think the bible is written by ordinary men? many of the things that were in the bible are all coming to pass, the bible is so complete and its the best and widely read book in the world. pls correct your common sense, it goes beyond that.

WAITING

Please I want the ten minutes I spent strugling to read this post back. Pathetic!

Harakiri&Kay17,you guy are just so smart,bold and sturbborn atheist.

Now,let look at prayer that was answered,people pray to God and they received according to what asked.Can we say their prayers were answered by accident or God?how does our believes actually work for us?

D sage: Harakiri&Kay17,you guy are just so smart,bold and sturbborn atheist.

Now,let look at prayer that was answered,people pray to God and they received according to what asked.Can we say their prayers were answered by accident or God?how does our believes actually work for us?

does this mean no christian has ever prayed for world peace? besides a study has been carried, pray
er works ...not

D sage: Harakiri&Kay17,you guy are just so smart,bold and sturbborn atheist.

Now,let look at prayer that was answered,people pray to God and they received according to what asked.Can we say their prayers were answered by accident or God?how does our believes actually work for us?

does this mean no christian has ever prayed for world peace? besides a study has been carried, prayer works ...not

D sage: Harakiri&Kay17,you guy are just so smart,bold and sturbborn atheist.

Now,let look at prayer that was answered,people pray to God and they received according to what asked.Can we say their prayers were answered by accident or God?how does our believes actually work for us?

You get answer because you want an answer.what the heck? How do non-theist get answers?

thehomer:

Does this then mean that initially, this God of yours wasn't omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient but later came to have these properties and thus became a God?

off topic, accept Humans have a God first before we discuss about His attributes.

thehomer:

This is a poor definition because according to that definition, I'm a God, computer programmers are Gods, sculptors and potters are Gods etc.

you finally get my point
yes it means Computer programers are Gods unto the Programs they create
Scultpors/ Potters are God unto the artforms they create - they can choose the dimension, color longevity of the works of thier hands and guess what the Creations have NO SAY!!!

thehomer:




This is a logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy. If one encounters a dog, the options on how it came to be there aren't that it either created itself or was made. Again, it could have been born.



You're still following your false dichotomy. I already answered this by telling you that humans are born.

its not logical fallacy if the point of contention is the origin of the specie not the

everything is either yes or No, there are no maybe's

so you agree that Humans are born in otherwords not Self_created which means the Very 1st Human was fearfully and Wonderfully created by a God. We are the works of His Hands.

will reply other posts later brb

snthesis:
off topic, accept Humans have a God first before we discuss about His attributes.

Ok, let me take a leap of faith say there is a "God". One "God".

Can you show us how we can know without.
1) Religious texts because we are not religious so those texts are like Harry potter.
2) Religious dogma/doctrine because of the same reasons listed.
3)AnecdoteS. You can't use them because extraordinary stories rquire extraordinary evidence. Unless you have "hard" emprical evidence, don't use them.
4)Personal beliefs are excluded because some of them can be ridiculous and irrational. Besides if you can't prove it, then it's just your personal BS.

Deal?

PS: DON'T QUOTE THE BIBLE AND THEN SAY, "IT'S NOT THE BIBLE, IT'S THE WORD".
SO DON'T QUOTE THE BIBLE OR "THE WORD" OR "THE WAY" OR "BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH" OR "ANYOTHERFUCKINGNAMEYOUCANCOMEUPWITH"

snthesis:

off topic, accept Humans have a God first before we discuss about His attributes.

No it is not off topic. It clearly demonstrate the erroneous way you're reasoning about this God of yours. Why should I accept that humans have a God? Are you willing to accept that Ganesha is out there?

snthesis:
you finally get my point
yes it means Computer programers are Gods unto the Programs they create
Scultpors/ Potters are God unto the artforms they create - they can choose the dimension, color longevity of the works of thier hands and guess what the Creations have NO SAY!!!

Then your definition of a God is meaningless.

snthesis:
its not logical fallacy if the point of contention is the origin of the specie not the

Not the what? The bone of contention is whether or not there was an organism that one could consistently call the first human not whether or not there was a living thing.

snthesis:
everything is either yes or No, there are no maybe's

Have you heard of the idea that the location of an atom's electron is determined by probability? i.e a maybe?

snthesis:
so you agree that Humans are born in otherwords not Self_created which means the Very 1st Human was fearfully and Wonderfully created by a God. We are the works of His Hands.

You have effectively shown why your argument is a fallacious false dichotomy. The fact that humans are born means that they are neither self created nor created by someone else.

snthesis:
will reply other posts later brb

Sure. Take your time. Just don't run away like others often do.

snthesis:

off topic, accept Humans have a God first before we discuss about His attributes.



you finally get my point
yes it means Computer programers are Gods unto the Programs they create
Scultpors/ Potters are God unto the artforms they create - they can choose the dimension, color longevity of the works of thier hands and guess what the Creations have NO SAY!!!


its not logical fallacy if the point of contention is the origin of the specie not the

everything is either yes or No, there are no maybe's

so you agree that Humans are born in otherwords not Self_created which means the Very 1st Human was fearfully and Wonderfully created by a God. We are the works of His Hands.

will reply other posts later brb

except, we d not tell the pots we love them. and pots are not alive. unless you smokin one.

snthesis: are you an atheist? do you have questions about your maker- God? bring it on, dont by shy? but please come with an open mind. your questions will be answered logically, which i know appeals to you.I can understand how lonely it must feel and i am here as a medium to comfort and guide you back to Him that made you.

Let's start this way: who created God?

snthesis:

off topic, accept Humans have a God first before we discuss about His attributes.



you finally get my point
yes it means Computer programers are Gods unto the Programs they create
Scultpors/ Potters are God unto the artforms they create - they can choose the dimension, color longevity of the works of thier hands and guess what the Creations have NO SAY!!!


its not logical fallacy if the point of contention is the origin of the specie not the

everything is either yes or No, there are no maybe's

so you agree that Humans are born in otherwords not Self_created which means the Very 1st Human was fearfully and Wonderfully created by a God. We are the works of His Hands.

will reply other posts later brb

Try to spring your premise together. What's is the design in man? What is his purpose?? WHO is his creator? Why does he need to be created??

Kay 17:

Try to spring your premise together. What's is the design in man? What is his purpose?? WHO is his creator? Why does he need to be created??

Man purpose ends in grave,all, everything about man,dude. On a side note,Theists keep making things up to feel comfortable, which I quite understand viewing it from a passionate angle. But, trying to prove them as facts, when they are not and shove them in other's people throats is appalling to say the least.

D sage: Harakiri&Kay17,you guy are just so smart,bold and sturbborn atheist.

Now,let look at prayer that was answered,people pray to God and they received according to what asked.Can we say their prayers were answered by accident or God?how does our believes actually work for us?

Perhaps you ought to ask yourself why Nigeria keeps moving progressively from bad to worse in-spite of all the megatons of prayers uttered each day. Churches and Mosques are competing with the number of residential houses and yet. . .with all this abundance of religion, how does this reflect on the minds of the people? Has it made Nigerians less dishonest to each other? Has it quelled the Boko Haram crisis? Has it stopped the scourge of corruption?

Speak the truth to yourself (even when you feel free to lie to the world).

Nuff said!

Harakiri,i quite agree with you that despite be an highly religions nation we are still progressing from bad to worst&there were still a corruptn everywere.

The prayer i was talking about is the one says by an individuals in relation to their personal problems.Now,in your own personal perspective,how do you think our prayers were answered.

Is it by our personal believes in prayer,by a true living God or by accident?Because as an individual(theist)our prayers solved many problem we are facing for us.

D sage: Harakiri,i quite agree with you that despite be an highly religions nation we are still progressing from bad to worst&there were still a corruptn everywere.

The prayer i was talking about is the one says by an individuals in relation to their personal problems.Now,in your own personal perspective,how do you think our prayers were answered.

Is it by our personal believes in prayer,by a true living God or by accident?Because as an individual(theist)our prayers solved many problem we are facing for us.

What you still don't understand is that a non-religious person has no business with prayer. Prayer is a theist "thing". Let's break the difference down a bit shall we?

(1)
THEIST : Believes in "God"
ATHEIST : Has no belief in "God"

(2)
THEIST : Believes a supernatural being will help him/her deal with life's problems
ATHEIST : Does not believe in such things and is solely responsible for his/her life (both good and bad)

(3)
THEIST : Derives morality from religious manuscripts
ATHEIST : Utilizes basic common sense to tell what's good from what's bad


Can you still the crystal clear difference?

D sage: Harakiri,i quite agree with you that despite be an highly religions nation we are still progressing from bad to worst&there were still a corruptn everywere.

The prayer i was talking about is the one says by an individuals in relation to their personal problems.Now,in your own personal perspective,how do you think our prayers were answered.

Is it by our personal believes in prayer,by a true living God or by accident?Because as an individual(theist)our prayers solved many problem we are facing for us.

Sir, Have you visited any General or Othorpedic Hospital recently ? You should try and do so and you will see that prayer doesn't work.

If you can sincerely come back here and tell me that those patients, some having stayed there for months and years have no "mustard seed" faith for god to answer their prayers then you are a demented fellow.

Forget those fabricated testimonies you hear at church. They are just hoaxes. Go to hospitals, you will see real human suffering and then you will wonder where the hell god is.

First let me make it known that I’m not an “atheist” so I hope this thread is not exclusive to atheists.

Secondly I’m not after “proof” supporting the legitimacy of the biblical god.

I’m only here because of my curiosity and there was a certain thing that I hoped the arrogant author of this thread could help me understand.


After the fall out with Lucifer, God banishes this villain from heaven and places this dangerous anti-hero on the same plane as his beloved creations – Adam and Eve – thereby exposing them to a potential threat. If God couldn’t abide in the same abode with Lucifer because of his treachery, surely his creations may not have wanted to host God’s antithesis either.
Whats more, if Lucifer had beef with God and was banished from heaven what better way to attack god but through his creations. What type of loving parent will kick out an adversary from their presence and dump them in the same space as their innocent child?

i'm back

apologies for my absence

thehomer:

Maybe you should refer to biologists for a more apt definition.



You need to know that conservapaedia is a poor source of accurate information on such topics.

since u r better versed in the concept of evolution- pls enlighten me

snthesis: i'm back

was she a good phuck?

harakiri: @Religious folks. . .A few questions for you since that's what this thread is all about :


(1)How did Judas Iscariot die? Was it through hanging or falling?Let's take these two inconsistencies for starters:


(a) Matthew 27:5: Here Judas threw away the silver and went to hang himself and thus : JUDAS DIED BY COMMITTING SUICIDE.

(b) Acts 1:18: Here Judas bought a field with the silver,fell headlong and his intestines spew forth and thus : JUDAS DIED BY ACCIDENT (there is no proof of suicidal tendencies here rather Judas was investing his money in real estate).


(2)Who did Cain marry? Who are those mysterious people in the land of Nod? The bible clearly depicts another established civilization there so they are evidently NOT children of Adam and Eve.

thread derailer alert
open a thread on Judas iscariot and ur 21 questions and i'll explain them berra
dis thread is to help atheist

Kay 17:


Third point: there is no God, but priests and pastors lying and pretending to be his mouthpiece. And if there is God why would he want you to believe rather than KNOW he exists?? Disbelief wouldn't stop him from existing right?

why is it difficult to understand simple terms
i defined what God is, and it has nothing to do with religion
how can you (MAN) say there is no GOD- are you implying that you created yourself
if YOU didnt create yourself, it means you were made, YOu have a GOD!!!!

harakiri:

All you've written here still doesn't prove the biblical god exists. These are mere sentiments that carry no weight.

basically u are saying God doesnt exist because you do not believe what was written in the bible>>>> hmmm! i think i just found a root cause for Atheism- d lack of believe in "religious books" - now that i have identified a root cause, hopefully a solution to ur unbelief in GOD is not too far away- i pray it wont be too late for u sha

hi snthesis am really enjoying the discussion. @all atheist thanks for civil questions witout insult it really make for good read.

Seun: If God created all good & evil in the universe, how can God not be at least partly evil?

another thread derailer- the Nature of God is actually inconsequential to this thread, but i will enlighten you a bit, but before that i would like you your point of view on the following-

wats ur definition of evil? and how is evil created?

Seun: If God created all good & evil in the universe, how can God not be at least partly evil?

Who created God? If the universe is to intricate to not have been intelligently designed,

sowwii o, this doesnt add up- too intricate and yet not intelligently designed shouldn't it be the reverse case -an intricate piece of work shows that a lot of skill and knowledgeable effort was inserted which would definitely speak volumes of the Maker. it is not fathomable that an intricate design can occur by random - that is sheer madness.
in terms of logical probability- which is more intricate in design and thus less likely to occur at random- an amoeba or a light bulb if you answered honestly your answer would be an amoeba- this implies that it is more likely to find an already produced light bulb before an amoeba can occur.

Seun: then a creature who designed such an intricate world must have been intricate himself

hey!! i see a light at the end of a tunnel- basically u admit that whoever created this world in general and humans in specific must be more knowledgeable that the creations He made. Basically He is God because He made us.

Seun:

Who created God? If God could just exist without a designer, then the universe could have sprung up the same way!!

i sense pride- wow!!!, another root cause for atheism discovered, hmm!! the prognosis is quite fascinating.
i previously clearly logically defined what it entails to be a God unto ur creations. i'll repeat it once again.

as i stated b4:
if a creature was not self created it implies it was made, it has a Maker , a God.
now if a creature is self Created, then it is a God unto itself.

now where does that leave Man
is Man a self Created Being?
if we are, it implies we are God(s)unto ourselves
but if we aren't, it implies we have a God.

and i will break it down a bit further -eva wondered why "He says He created us in His Image"- one aspect of that which is often overlooked is the fact that He gave us the ability to also "create" to be designers and builders just like Him, ever wondered why the Human mind is so innovative. anyways back to the illustration-

God created Man
Man created Robots with artificial intelligence.

God is "God" unto Man
Man is "God" unto Robots

case in point- a Robot called Seun with his Artificial intelligence says "who created Man? if Man could just exist without a designer, then "i- Seun the robot" could have sprung up the same way!!, ,

the boundaries of the creation and the Creator is very clear and simple "if a creature was not self created it implies it was made, it has a Maker , a God" no long thing

snthesis:
basically u are saying God doesnt exist because you do not believe what was written in the bible>>>> hmmm! i think i just found a root cause for Atheism- d lack of believe in "religious books"

Tadaaaaa!!!!!! I give you 4/10 for coming to this conclusion at least. Now I urge you to go study your said religious book sceptically and maybe, just maybe you will earn the remaining 6 marks.