dorox:
My honest opinion is that you made no sense at all, read through ijawkid's explanation of philipians 2:1-12 and judge for yourself if it is not consistent with what jesus said about himself in the bible.

I won't even say anything anymore to haibe......


I have always adviced and goshen too said it that we shuld always read thru contexts and also use other translations or renderings of d holy scripture other than d KJV....

They are so confused that they dnt know which to choose...

Either d kenotic dogma or d Chalcedon Creed.....

Its all crazy....

If d trinity dogma was d only way one culd learn about God,then I rather be an atheist.......

Its like one trying to tell me that God is like noob saibot of mortal kombat....

That has an inner soul that runs out to fight and then comes back...

That's what people are explaining God as.....

With such confusion why won't many delve into d dis-belief of God since d confusion surrounding is existence is so complicated and vague.........

I hands up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ayomivic:

If that is the question then the answer is NO.There is God and there is Jesus the evidence are plenty in the bible from Genesis to revelation even Jesus says it many times that there was God the father, not need of argue on this.

what you mean by there is God then there is jesus? This stance somewhat confuses people..if you say there is God and then there is jesus are you assuming that jesus is not God? I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand ...
There is no God without the father, son and holy spirit..Once you take one away there is no God..
The confusion about the Godhead is that people think The Father is the same person playing the Father, son and holy spirit or vice versa..Neither are they three gods playing one God..

The Godhead or God are three distinct persons and they are all the one God.. they are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.
Metaphorically for lack better word the nature or essence of the Godhead could be assumed to be like a 3D equilateral Triangle..Three equal sides forming One triangle..If you want to draw a 3D of an equilateral triangle you only need one side to to have no idea of what a 3D triangle should look like. Because they are all have same essence and nature ,perceiving one.side means you perceiving all. That's why jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father..

Now its the roles that are different ..the Father is the one that loves and the son the beloved. The holy spirit is the one that witnesses this love.. The bible says the Father chooses who will be saved and the son redeems them and the Holy spirit seals them..

nyameke: what you mean by there is God then there is jesus? This stance somewhat confuses people..if you say there is God and then there is jesus are you assuming that jesus is not God? I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand ...
There is no God without the father, son and holy spirit..Once you take one away there is no God..
The confusion about the Godhead is that people think The Father is the same person playing the Father, son and holy spirit or vice versa..Neither are they three gods playing one God..

The Godhead or God are three distinct persons and they are all the one God.. they are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.
Metaphorically for lack better word the nature or essence of the Godhead could be assumed to be like a 3D equilateral Triangle..Three equal sides forming One triangle..If you want to draw a 3D of an equilateral triangle you only need one side to to have no idea of what a 3D triangle should look like. Because they are all have same essence and nature ,perceiving one.side means you perceiving all. That's why jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father..

Now its the roles that are different ..the Father is the one that loves and the son the beloved. The holy spirit is the one that witnesses this love.. The bible says the Father chooses who will be saved and the son redeems them and the Holy spirit seals them..

you are just being stiff necked..the explanation given by ijawkid says it all..All u guys have been debating is between Jehovah and Jesus, what about the holyspirit? Where in the bible does it say that the holyspirit is Jehovah or Jesus? Or that the holy spirit sent Jehovah or Jesus on an errand. The Father has a name, Jehovah or Yaweh, the son is Jesus what is the name of the holyspirit? Evry person has a name. Jehovah uses the holyspirit and neva the other way around. Stop arguing, even u do not understand the trinity cos according to u guys it's a mystery. A mystery u guys created!

dorox:
My honest opinion is that you made no sense at all, read through ijawkid's explanation of philipians 2:1-12 and judge for yourself if it is not consistent with what jesus said about himself in the bible.

What exactly d̶̲̅σ you believe?

[size=18pt]Absolutely not.[/size]

Not only is it common sense but in the bible itself, Jesus made several references to God (Almighty the Creator) as his "father".

How could he have been his OWN father? And when he was being crucified, WHO did he pray to? Who did he ask "why has thou forsaken me?" and later on request to "let thy will be done"?

No offence but although I am not one, I know that being a Christian is not about just going to church every Sunday to yell "Amen". It's about believing in and abiding by the laws of the religion not to mention STUDYING the text (the Bible).

If some of you did, you'd know that Jesus was a man, he was not God (as in the CREATOR).

Image123: Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Jesus Christ is God Almighty. We better believe it if we claim to believe the Bible. understanding it is another matter for mary and martha. No one should expect to completely understand God, it's another realm. Farther than man's realm to animals. yet no animal or dog no matter how intelligent or old understands what we see as simple such as 2+2= 4. It's simply out of its realm, yet true. that we don't understand or know something does not make it untrue.

Hilarity.

Fr0sbel: God the Father and Jesus Christ are ONE and the SAME.

Isaiah 9:6 - "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

1. Child is Born - Jesus
2. Called a SON - The SON of GOD
3. Government ( universal ) will be on His shoulders

4. He will be called :

a)Wonderful Counsellor

b)Mighty God

c)Everlasting Father

d)Prince of Peace.



Case closed !!

Case is NOT closed. B and C are meant to emphasize that they believed he would have prophet like abilities. If you are suggesting they ( b/c) meant that he was THE CREATOR, then you will notice they contradict NUMBER 2: "SON OF GOD".

Mind you the terms "God" and "Lord" << especially were used to describe people of significance and power. What is the owner of a land or property called? "landLORD". Such was the case in ancient European societies to describe nobility and owners of property. Their power made them God like.

The Bible was being translated to English at those same times (Old English) and those were the only terms they could use to describe the influence and power of Jesus. The SUPREME BEING and ALMIGHTY GOD were used to describe the ULTIMATE, the CREATOR. Jesus was not that.

Now, another key thing is that the bible has been reprinted over twenty times. People who did not understand the power of translation and the context because they did not know how to interpret the meanings, failed to realize the point. The point is that this child upon being born was dubbed "ordained to lead" and thus called God like, so they (those who do not understand the importance of ACCURATE translation and interpretation) printed "MIGHTY GOD", which is false.

Let's say there was a tribe where "Selay Tunoo" meant "Rising Star". And a child is born and named "Selay Tunoo" BECAUSE he was born at dusk or was unusually pleasant at birth (something like that), and he grew to do good things. And people wrote about him. Lets say in order to tell his story so that the whole world could understand, they called him "The Sun"...they would be right along the lines because the Sun is a form of a Star but OFF because it meant specifically "RISING STAR". So by calling Jesus "God" or "Lord" it doesn't mean he was the CREATOR, it just means he was a great man of influence....its just another case of poor translation and misinterpretation.

MsDarkSkin: [size=18pt]Absolutely not.[/size]

Not only is it common sense but in the bible itself, Jesus made several references to God as his "father".
How could he have been his OWN father? And when he was being crucified, WHO did he pray to? Who did he ask "why has thou forsaken me?" and later on request to "let thy will be done"?

No offence but although I am not one, I know that being a Christian is not about just going to church every Sunday to yell "Amen". It's about believing in and abiding by the laws of the religion not to mention STUDYING the text (the Bible).

If some of you did, you'd know that Jesus was a man, he was not God.

On the bolded. It is true that Jesus is man, but He is also God, not the Father though.

Goshen360:

On the bolded. It is true that Jesus is man, but He is also God, not the Father though.

Well what I mean is he was "God like" in his lifestyle. But not the Creator, so yes. I agree with you.

MsDarkSkin:

Hilarity.





Case is NOT closed. B and C are meant to emphasize that they believed he would have prophet like abilities. If you are suggesting they ( b/c) meant that he was THE CREATOR, then you will notice they contradict NUMBER 2: "SON OF GOD".

Mind you the terms "God" and "Lord" << especially were used to describe people of significance and power. What is the owner of a land or property called? "landLORD". Such was the case in ancient European societies to describe nobility and owners of property. Their power made them God like.

The Bible was being translated to English at those same times (Old English) and those were the only terms they could use to describe the influence and power of Jesus. The SUPREME BEING and ALMIGHTY GOD were used to describe the ULTIMATE, the CREATOR. Jesus was not that.

Now, another key thing is that the bible has been reprinted over twenty times. People who did not understand the power of translation and the context because they did not know how to interpret the meanings, failed to realize the point. The point is that this child upon being born was dubbed "ordained to lead" and thus called God like, so they (those who do not understand the importance of ACCURATE translation and interpretation) printed "MIGHTY GOD", which is false.

Let's say there was a tribe where "Selay Tunoo" meant "Rising Star". And a child is born and named "Selay Tunoo" BECAUSE he was born at dusk or was unusually pleasant at birth (something like that), and he grew to do good things. And people wrote about him. Lets say in order to tell his story so that the whole world could understand, they called him "The Sun"...they would be right along the lines because the Sun is a form of a Star but OFF because it meant specifically "RISING STAR". So by calling Jesus "God" or "Lord" it doesn't mean he was the CREATOR, it just means he was a great man of influence....its just another case of poor translation and misinterpretation.

ok stop it woman because you are absolutely not making any sense..All your are doing is making baseless assumptions..You are wrong and I don't have the time to respond to all that but I leave you with this..

Yahweh/Jesus is Prime Creator of All-That-Is because:

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” - John 1:3

Colossians 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence..
The Bible also says “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be save

Btw I have already explained on another thread a while back why Yahweh is jesus so no need to explain that again..

Btw all this back and forth would not help anyone.. What you should all be talking about is salvationand whom you get it from.. Jesus is the only one through whom salvation is attained ..The bible says there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved..

Now these are what most unbelievers and other religions say:
1.Jesus is only an Ascended Master? (False ..Jesus is Prime Creator of All that-Is)

2.Jesus is not God? Jesus is not Yahweh? (False and False.. There is only one God as the father ,son and Holy spirit )

3.Jesus is not the only way to salvation? We can save ourselves? We can be saved with the names of other enlightened beings or Deities ? (All False!!!)

Who are those beings/people that say things contrary to the Truth that the Real Christ came to reveal? They are what the Bible calls the “Fallen Angels”. They are any “Lords of Light”, Angelic Beings, higher dimensional Entities that say anything that contradicts the core of what Christianity is all about throughout time..

All beings that consider jesus as an ascended master, great prophet, teacher but not the one through which all believers will be saved are following the luciferian agenda..
They would confuse you and say all manner of things..The do these by mixing the truth with lies to confuse people..do not be fooled.. jesus said the devil is a liar..The greatest form of deception is to mix false with the truth and present it as truth..

Rat poison is 99% food and only 1% poison.. food for thought let those who have ears hear.

@msdarkskin thanks for the comment but try to understand that God is triune , father, son and holy spirit.
they exist throughout eternity as a
perfect, loving family as one. Remember, as
christians we worship the one God existing
as three separate persons and the thing
that makes them one is their incredible
love for each other. they are in perfect
harmony and perfect agreement.The words
used in the old testament that the muslims
and various other religions use against us is
“THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE”.The word
“one” doesnt mean one in the mathematical
singularity , the hebrew word for “one” is
the same word used when the lord said that
a man shall leave his mother and father and
join with his wife to become “one” flesh.He
is indicating a unity of more than one, but
functioning as one- a perfect family.They
are not three gods, three gods would be
three individuals, they are three persons,
the difference between an individual and a
person is- an individual is independant and
needs no one, a person is personal and
relational. a person has to exist in relation
to another- therefore what does it mean
that we are made in the image of God? it
means we were made to be in relationship,
just as the father, son, and spirit are, and
we are therefore also meant to be in a
relationship with our creator.father, son
are relational terms in the make up of God,
they are equal with the spirit but the
father cannot exist without the son and
the spirit cannot exist without the father
and son. when i say relational, i mean, you
cant be a father without a son, and you
cant be a son without a father.Iwould not
be here without the prior relationship
between my mother and father.The reason
im explaining this is, the bible collapses if
you dont read it with the triune God in
mind, once you get around that,things
become clearer.
Lets see how they work together- the
father wills it, the son executes it
empowered by the spirit. you see this
happening from genesis through to
revelation.in the book of John you see “in
the beginning there was the word,and the
word was with God and the word was God.”
the bible is clear that Jesus is the word
and the universe was created by Gods
word.In genesis the spirit is hovering over
the formless earth in order to anoint the
word (Jesus)to create.In john we see the
spirit in a form of a dove hovering over the
waters of the jordan in order to annoint
Jesus to go out and begin his ministry, and
the father speaks from heaven.
So,we have the triune God, and his very
being is love.Love has to be shared. there
has to be something to love otherwise there
cannot be love. The father, son, and spirit
share this incredible , perfect love which
explodes out into creation.God knew
creation would fall into sin, however the
plan of salvation was already in place.
The son was so willing to deal with the
trinitarian fury that he willingly separated
from his father and entered our dimension
as one of us in order to pay the fine we
deserved. He had to be God to pay the
penalty, and he had to be human in order to
die.We actually were not involved, the plan
of salvation that was introduced and
executed by God, packaged and given to us
as a gift. If Jesus was living in such a
perfect, loving environment with his father,
why did he do this? what was missing in
heaven that made him lower himself and
endure such suffering, our blessed hope is
to go and be with him in heaven, what was
his blessed hope that he actually took the
totally astounding step that he did.he
didnt just die, he suffered immeasurably
more than any human could handle, he took
the past, present and future sins into his
body and cried out exactly what we cry out
“why” -he bargained with his father in
gethsemany as the blood ran out of his
pores to please let this cup pass from him,
he took up his cross and with immeasurable
resolve , went on to be lynched, hung,
drawn and quartered, as isaiah put it- you
couldnt recognise if he was human. Yet he
was innocent.
What was missing in heaven that made him
go through all that? it was you, you were
missing, he could have left you as a child of
satan, but he didnt, he loves you that much.
The questions you ask are good and
relevant, and there are some fantastic
answers but dont forget,Jesus knows why,
hes been there done that, put your faith
and trust in him, he will give you the
answers in time.

Jesus is the Christ,the redeemer not the Almighty God,the creator.
JOHN 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son , . . . "

I rest my case.

nyameke: ok stop it woman because you are absolutely not making any sense..All your are doing is making baseless assumptions..You are wrong and I don't have the time to respond to all that but I leave you with this..

Yahweh/Jesus is Prime Creator of All-That-Is because:

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” - John 1:3

Colossians 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence..
The Bible also says “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be save

Btw I have already explained on another thread a while back why Yahweh is jesus so no need to explain that again..

In other words you are saying Yahweh is noob saibot of mortal kombat...........
Mumu trinity apologists...


U fail to read ur colossians between lines.....

Jesus was a medium an agent of creation.....

Through Jesus or by Jesus all things were created.....

Ofcus that should be d exception of Yahweh who gave Jesus that power and responsibility to engage in creation....

When u guys read d bible u throw away ur senses because paganism has enveloped it..

Please compare 1corinthians 15:27 $ 28

And see what it means when it says Jesus has all power and authority...

He is not d source of all power,but 1 who had received power from Yahweh...

Jesus was given power to do what ever he has achieved and all that is still to d glory of Yahweh his God and Father...


Because ""Yahweh is greater than he is""

How can Jesus be greater than himself.....

Trinity will make adults think like toddlers.....

MsDarkSkin:

Hilarity.





Case is NOT closed. B and C are meant to emphasize that they believed he would have prophet like abilities. If you are suggesting they ( b/c) meant that he was THE CREATOR, then you will notice they contradict NUMBER 2: "SON OF GOD".

Mind you the terms "God" and "Lord" << especially were used to describe people of significance and power. What is the owner of a land or property called? "landLORD". Such was the case in ancient European societies to describe nobility and owners of property. Their power made them God like.

The Bible was being translated to English at those same times (Old English) and those were the only terms they could use to describe the influence and power of Jesus. The SUPREME BEING and ALMIGHTY GOD were used to describe the ULTIMATE, the CREATOR. Jesus was not that.

Now, another key thing is that the bible has been reprinted over twenty times. People who did not understand the power of translation and the context because they did not know how to interpret the meanings, failed to realize the point. The point is that this child upon being born was dubbed "ordained to lead" and thus called God like, so they (those who do not understand the importance of ACCURATE translation and interpretation) printed "MIGHTY GOD", which is false.

Let's say there was a tribe where "Selay Tunoo" meant "Rising Star". And a child is born and named "Selay Tunoo" BECAUSE he was born at dusk or was unusually pleasant at birth (something like that), and he grew to do good things. And people wrote about him. Lets say in order to tell his story so that the whole world could understand, they called him "The Sun"...they would be right along the lines because the Sun is a form of a Star but OFF because it meant specifically "RISING STAR". So by calling Jesus "God" or "Lord" it doesn't mean he was the CREATOR, it just means he was a great man of influence....its just another case of poor translation and misinterpretation.

U really have a good understanding...

Thumbs up...

I have told these apologists that the KJV has really led to many misconceptions and confusions.......


I told them to either choose d kenotic dogma or d trinitarian dogma...

But they are choosing both and acting like kids

@kola oloye how can you explain john1:1 and Hebrews 1:8"but unto the son he saith: Thy
throne, O God, is for
ever and ever - If this
be said of the Son of
God, i.e. Jesus Christ,
then Jesus Christ must
be God; and indeed the
design of the apostle
is to prove this. The
words here quoted are
taken from Psalm
45:6.

haibe: @kola oloye how can you explain john1:1 and Hebrews 1:8"but unto the son he saith: Thy
throne, O God, is for
ever and ever - If this
be said of the Son of
God, i.e. Jesus Christ,
then Jesus Christ must
be God; and indeed the
design of the apostle
is to prove this. The
words here quoted are
taken from Psalm
45:6.

Please verse 9 of hebrews 1 says another God anointed this god mentioned in verse 8...

Who is that God that did d annointing and who was d god that was annointed?

Did Jesus annoint himself or some1 higher and different from him did??

Read d whole hebrews bro and see if Jesus is Yahweh...

Read d context......

And like I told u use other translations.................


If david called Jesus a god in psalms 45:6 what do u tink he meant??

Oboy reason and read the whole verse......

Has anyone bothered to ask why Jesus prayed to someone (God the father). Does God almighty need to pray to anyone since he is almighty? Please we should not confuse ourselves with what preachers tell us. Look into the bible and believe the truth for yourselves without fear or shame to admit it.

@chiteny the biblical evidence for the divinity of
Christ is overwhelming. Only a person who is
spiritually blind would deny this fact. There are
many passages in the Bible which specifically
refer to Jesus Christ as God.
(1) The prophet Isaiah identifies the
future Messiah as Immanuel which means “God
with us” (Isa. 7:14). He says the Christ child is
“the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the
Prince of Peace” (Isa. 9:6-7). Jeremiah refers
to the coming King as “The LORD Our
Righteousness” (Jer. 23:5-6) Jesus is literally
“Jehovah Our Righteousness.” Micah says that
the Messiah is not a created being; He is God
Almighty who has existed “from
everlasting” (Mic. 5:2). Malachi describes
Christ as the Lord who comes to His temple to
judge Israel (Mal. 3:1-2). The Psalmist of Israel
says that the messianic throne is God’s own
throne (Ps. 45:1, 6-7). In Psalm 2 the phrase
“the Son” is set poetically in parallel with
Jehovah. The Son and the Father are equal in
power and glory (see Ps. 110:1).
(2) The apostle John says that “the
Word was with God, and the Word was God
(1:1). All things were made by God’s Son (1:2-3).
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among
us (1:14). When the apostle Thomas saw the
risen Messiah he “said unto Him, My Lord and
my God” (Jn. 20:28). Jesus identified Himself
as Jehovah when He said “before Abraham was
I AM” (Jn. 8:57-59). Our Lord’s enemies
understood that Christ taught His own divinity
when they said that Jesus “said that God was
His Father, making Himself equal with God” (Jn.
5:17-26). When the Savior said “I and my
Father are one,” the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him “…because that thou, being a man,
makest thyself God” (Jn. 10:33). Instead of
emphatically denying that He was God, Jesus
told the Jews that His works proved that He
was divine, “that the Father is in Me, and I in
Him” (Jn. 10:39). Jesus told the apostle John,
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning
and the end….He that overcometh shall inherit
all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be
my son” (Rev. 21:6-7).
(3) The apostle Paul says that “Christ…
is…the eternally blessed God” (Rom. 9:6), who
before the incarnation existed “in the form of
God” (Phil. 2:5-. “He is the image of the
invisible God” who created everything (Col.
1:15-16). Paul teaches, “For in Him dwelleth all
the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col.
2:8-10). Therefore, it is appropriate for the
apostle to refer to Jesus as “The King eternal,
immortal, invisible, the only wise God” (1 Tim.
2:3-4); as “God our Savior” (1 Tim. 2:3-4;Tit.
1:3; 2:10); or, “our great God and Savior” (Tit.
2:13); or, “the only wise God our Savior” (Jude
25). Paul says that only the King of kings “hath
immortality, dwelling in the light which no man
can approach unto” (1 Tim. 6:14-16). The author
of the Hebrews says that God the Father
explicitly identifies the Son as God. “But unto
the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for
ever and ever” (Heb. 1:.
(4) There are a number of instances in
the Bible where the names “Son of God” and
“Lord” indicate Christ’s essential deity. For the
title “Son of God” used in a Trinitarian sense
see: Mt. 11:27; 14:26, 33; 16:16; 21:33-46;
22:41-46; 26:63-65. For passages in which the
title “Lord” indicates deity see: Lk. 2:11; 3:4-6;
1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:11.There are many Old
Testament passages which speak of God or
Jehovah which are taken by the Spirit inspired
authors of the New Testament and applied
directly to Jesus Christ (e.g., read Isa. 40:3—
Mt. 3:3; Mal. 4:5-6—Lk. 1:17; Isa. 45:22-23—
Rom. 14:10; cf. Phil. 2:10; Ps. 68:17-18—Eph.
4:7-8; Ps. 45:6-7—Heb. 1:6-9; Ps. 102:1, 25-27
—Heb. 1:8-12; Dt. 31:6—Heb. 13:5; etc.). These
parallels between Jehovah and Jesus are so
explicit one could say that “the whole New
Testament is based upon the thought that
there is…[an] essential unity between Jesus
Christ and the covenant of the God of
Israel.”

haibe: @chiteny the biblical evidence for the divinity of
Christ is overwhelming. Only a person who is
spiritually blind would deny this fact. There are
many passages in the Bible which specifically
refer to Jesus Christ as God.
(1) The prophet Isaiah identifies the
future Messiah as Immanuel which means “God
with us” (Isa. 7:14). He says the Christ child is
“the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the
Prince of Peace” (Isa. 9:6-7). Jeremiah refers
to the coming King as “The LORD Our
Righteousness” (Jer. 23:5-6) Jesus is literally
“Jehovah Our Righteousness.” Micah says that
the Messiah is not a created being; He is God
Almighty who has existed “from
everlasting” (Mic. 5:2). Malachi describes
Christ as the Lord who comes to His temple to
judge Israel (Mal. 3:1-2). The Psalmist of Israel
says that the messianic throne is God’s own
throne (Ps. 45:1, 6-7). In Psalm 2 the phrase
“the Son” is set poetically in parallel with
Jehovah. The Son and the Father are equal in
power and glory (see Ps. 110:1).
(2) The apostle John says that “the
Word was with God, and the Word was God
(1:1). All things were made by God’s Son (1:2-3).
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among
us (1:14). When the apostle Thomas saw the
risen Messiah he “said unto Him, My Lord and
my God” (Jn. 20:28). Jesus identified Himself
as Jehovah when He said “before Abraham was
I AM” (Jn. 8:57-59). Our Lord’s enemies
understood that Christ taught His own divinity
when they said that Jesus “said that God was
His Father, making Himself equal with God” (Jn.
5:17-26). When the Savior said “I and my
Father are one,” the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him “…because that thou, being a man,
makest thyself God” (Jn. 10:33). Instead of
emphatically denying that He was God, Jesus
told the Jews that His works proved that He
was divine, “that the Father is in Me, and I in
Him” (Jn. 10:39). Jesus told the apostle John,
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning
and the end….He that overcometh shall inherit
all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be
my son” (Rev. 21:6-7).
(3) The apostle Paul says that “Christ…
is…the eternally blessed God” (Rom. 9:6), who
before the incarnation existed “in the form of
God” (Phil. 2:5-. “He is the image of the
invisible God” who created everything (Col.
1:15-16). Paul teaches, “For in Him dwelleth all
the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col.
2:8-10). Therefore, it is appropriate for the
apostle to refer to Jesus as “The King eternal,
immortal, invisible, the only wise God” (1 Tim.
2:3-4); as “God our Savior” (1 Tim. 2:3-4;Tit.
1:3; 2:10); or, “our great God and Savior” (Tit.
2:13); or, “the only wise God our Savior” (Jude
25). Paul says that only the King of kings “hath
immortality, dwelling in the light which no man
can approach unto” (1 Tim. 6:14-16). The author
of the Hebrews says that God the Father
explicitly identifies the Son as God. “But unto
the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for
ever and ever” (Heb. 1:.
(4) There are a number of instances in
the Bible where the names “Son of God” and
“Lord” indicate Christ’s essential deity. For the
title “Son of God” used in a Trinitarian sense
see: Mt. 11:27; 14:26, 33; 16:16; 21:33-46;
22:41-46; 26:63-65. For passages in which the
title “Lord” indicates deity see: Lk. 2:11; 3:4-6;
1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:11.There are many Old
Testament passages which speak of God or
Jehovah which are taken by the Spirit inspired
authors of the New Testament and applied
directly to Jesus Christ (e.g., read Isa. 40:3—
Mt. 3:3; Mal. 4:5-6—Lk. 1:17; Isa. 45:22-23—
Rom. 14:10; cf. Phil. 2:10; Ps. 68:17-18—Eph.
4:7-8; Ps. 45:6-7—Heb. 1:6-9; Ps. 102:1, 25-27
—Heb. 1:8-12; Dt. 31:6—Heb. 13:5; etc.). These
parallels between Jehovah and Jesus are so
explicit one could say that “the whole New
Testament is based upon the thought that
there is…[an] essential unity between Jesus
Christ and the covenant of the God of
Israel.”

U haven't answered d question I raised regarding hebrews 1:9....

And from ya childish analogy it means if I name my child ""IMMANUEL"" then it means my child is Yahweh or God

And it means all d persons answering IMMANUEL today are all Gods or Yahwehs.................

That Immanuel argument has been debunked a long time ago....
So erase it from 1 of ur proofs that Jesus is Yahweh.....

Let's go back and analyze hebrews 1:8 $ 9....

Let's take it slowly...

Let me show u that Jesus is different from Yahweh and isn't Yahweh,but a representative of Yahweh...

chiteny: Has anyone bothered to ask why Jesus prayed to someone (God the father). Does God almighty need to pray to anyone since he is almighty? Please we should not confuse ourselves with what preachers tell us. Look into the bible and believe the truth for yourselves without fear or shame to admit it.

Have you bordered to ask why Jesus increasd in wisdom and stature(luke 2:52)?
Oh! S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ because he is God he shouldn't grow in stature while in flesh right? Why is it hard for you to understand that being as a man he must live as a man or S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ you think because Jesus is God in flesh he should not eat at all?
How else can you all be taught that jesus being a man had to live like a man, he had to follow the principle of being a man and its the duty of man to pray and that's just what he did, he prayed to the father in heaven simple! This trinity of a thing isn't that hard to understand now... Hehe may God help us ☺☺ ℓ̊ can't imagine jesus because he is God not eating, sleeping, praying knowing that he is in the nature of a man. You people think very funny o.

ijawkid:


U haven't answered d question I raised regarding hebrews 1:9....

And from ya childish analogy it means if I name my child ""IMMANUEL"" then it means my child is Yahweh or God

And it means all d persons answering IMMANUEL today are all Gods or Yahwehs.................

That Immanuel argument has been debunked a long time ago....
So erase it from 1 of ur proofs that Jesus is Yahweh.....

Let's go back and analyze hebrews 1:8 $ 9....

Let's take it slowly...

Let me show u that Jesus is different from Yahweh and isn't Yahweh,but a representative of Yahweh...

God with us, if he is not God, he can never be called God. Why are you S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ childish. Φƙα̲̅ψ why is it only Jesus ☺₪ earth that was called God?

haibe:

God with us, if he is not God, he can never be called God. Why are you S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ childish. Φƙα̲̅ψ why is it only Jesus ☺₪ earth that was called God?

See u....

Na now I knw say that ya bible u no dey dust am read...

Satan is also called God.....

You and I and all d princes and kings and judges were all called Gods or God on individual basis...

U think d name or title God is bound to 1 person?

That title God can apply to anybody.....

Yahweh himself called moses a God......................

Like I asked u earlier....

If I name my pikin IMMANUEL can my child be called God

Many of my freinds answer the same name IMMANUEL...

Are they God

The Father has his personal name which is Yahweh...

The son has his personal name which is Jesus.......

They are 2 different persons that is why there names are different....

Don't u get it??

The title ""GOD"" is nobodies name.....................

The title also LORD is nobodies name........

ijawkid:

See u....

Na now I knw say that ya bible u no dey dust am read...

Satan is also called God.....

You and I and all d princes and kings and judges were all called Gods or God on individual basis...

U think d name or title God is bound to 1 person?

That title God can apply to anybody.....

Yahweh himself called moses a God......................

Like I asked u earlier....

If I name my pikin IMMANUEL can my child be called God

Many of my freinds answer the same name IMMANUEL...

Are they God

The Father has his personal name which is Yahweh...

The son has his personal name which is Jesus.......

They are 2 different persons that is why there names are different....

Don't u get it??

The title ""GOD"" is nobodies name.....................

The title also LORD is nobodies name........

I did not say no one is called a god, i said no one is called God. I shouldn't be telling you the difference between "a god" and "God".
And you are not even sure of what you are saying. Was Jesus called Jesus before he came to earth as a man? Yahweh is God's name(fada, son and spirit) all one while Jesus is God the son's name as a man.

@ haibe,

Can I ask you two questions? One after the other, then we can go from the question. Trinity is NOT as difficult as you are making it.

ijawkid:


Please verse 9 of hebrews 1 says another God anointed this god mentioned in verse 8...

Who is that God that did d annointing and who was d god that was annointed?

Did Jesus annoint himself or some1 higher and different from him did??

Read d whole hebrews bro and see if Jesus is Yahweh...

Read d context......

And like I told u use other translations.................


If david called Jesus a god in psalms 45:6 what do u tink he meant??

Oboy reason and read the whole verse......

I never said the father did not anoint jesus, of course he did because he was as a man.
Wait a minute are you saying Jesus is a god and not God?

Goshen360: @ haibe,

Can I ask you two questions? One after the other, then we can go from the question. Trinity is NOT as difficult as you are making it.

Yes you can

haibe:
I did not say no one is called a god, i said no one is called God. I shouldn't be telling you the difference between "a god" and "God".
And you are not even sure of what you are saying. Was Jesus called Jesus before he came to earth as a man? Yahweh is God's name(fada, son and spirit) all one while Jesus is God the son's name as a man.

What u jus said sounds so silly because Jesus wuld never say it...

What did Jesus tell his followers about himself and his name..........

Oh u want to differentiate god and God eh

Its like u want us to go in depth into this issue.....

Let me give u a hint as to where ur small letter g and big letter G came from....

In d original hebrew and greek texts there were no upper and lower case for ur information....

So when u saw elohim or theos it was all in d upper casing irrespective of the god being talked about.....big letters...

English translators chose to start differentiaiting which god is which.......

Instead of sticking to d personal names of d individuals they started using god,lord for individuals when they knew those titles aren't names neither are they meant for 1-3 persons...........


Now back to d immanuel issue..........

If I name my child immanuel like d way we have many immanuels here on earth,does that make my child God or god??

Satan was called the God ....

What more do u want??
God is nobodies name my nigga

Please read ya bible well..........ok

@ijawkid i only used the word god and God to differentiate btw lesser gods and almighty God. I thought u wuld undastand, every one knows small g' is used 4 gods other than the almighty or is the bible trying to tell us we humans and satan are the almighty God? No
and are u saying God decided to name jesus God wit us from his own name(God)?

haibe: @ijawkid i only used the word god and God to differentiate btw lesser gods and almighty God. I thought u wuld undastand, every one knows small g' is used 4 gods other than the almighty or is the bible trying to tell us we humans and satan are the almighty God? No
and are u saying God decided to name jesus God wit us from his own name(God)?

Now let's discuss on hebrew 1:8 and 9..

U refused delving into it......

Now let me clear u on this God wahala.......

Read this piece of write up judiciously....

We will focus on d hebrews u quoted and why u need to use other translations and read in context.....

Goshen has always reminded u of that.......


Now put on ya sit belt and let's analyze d title ""GOD" and what hebrews 1 was talkin about....




Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will
last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the
scepter of your kingdom. (NIV) 1. The English language makes a clear distinction between “God” and “god.” Thus, in English Bibles,
the heavenly Father is called “God,” while lesser
divinities, people with God’s authority on earth and
important people such as kings, are also called
“god” (2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22).
The Hebrew and Aramaic languages cannot make the distinction between “God” and “god.” Since
Hebrew and Aramaic have only capital letters,
every use is “GOD.” Furthermore, although the
Greek language has both upper case and lower case
letters as English does, the early Greek manuscripts
did not blend them. It was the style of writing at the time of the New Testament to make
manuscripts in all capital letters, so the Greek
manuscripts were, like the Hebrew text, all upper
case script. Scholars call these manuscripts
“uncials,” and that style was popular until the early
ninth century or so when a smaller script was developed for books. [1] Since all texts were in upper case script, if we
translated Genesis 1:1 and 2 as it appeared in the
Hebrew manuscripts, it would read: IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE
HEAVENS AND THE EARTH NOW THE EARTH
WAS FORMLESS AND EMPTY DARKNESS WAS
OVER THE SURFACE OF THE DEEP AND THE
SPIRIT OF GOD WAS HOVERING OVER THE
WATERS. Actually, Bible students should be aware that in
both the early Hebrew and Greek manuscripts there
were no spaces between the words, no punctuation
marks, no chapters and no verses. The original texts
of both the Old and New Testament were capital
letters all run together, and it looked like this: INTHEBEGINNINGGODCREATEDTHE
HEAVENSANDTHEEARTHNOWTHEEARTH
WASFORMLESSANDEMPTYDARKNESS
WASOVERTHESURFAEOFTHEDEEPAND
THESPIRITOFGODWASHOVERINGOVER
THEWATERS Of course, the entire Bible was hand-printed
exactly the same way, with every letter in upper
case and no spaces between any words. As you can
imagine, that made reading very difficult, and so it
was common to read aloud, even when reading to
yourself, to make it easier. That is why Philip the Evangelist could hear the Ethiopian eunuch reading
the scroll of Isaiah (Acts 8:30). Such a text was
hard to read and practically impossible to teach
from. Imagine not being able to say, “Turn to
Chapter 5, verse 15.” Therefore, divisions in the
text began to appear quite early. However, because scribes lived far apart and hand-copied
manuscripts, the divisions in the various
manuscripts were not uniform. The first
standardized divisions between verses came into
being around 900 AD., and the modern chapter
divisions were made in the 1200s. It should now be very clear that there was just no
way to distinguish between “God” and “god” in the
early texts, and so it must always be determined
from the context whether or not the word “GOD”
is referring to the Father or to some lesser being.
Although it was usual that the presence of the definite article in the Greek text alerted the reader
that the “GOD” being referred to was the Father,
this was not always the case (see the note on John 10:33). For example, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, the word “theos” has the definite article, but the verse is
referring to the Devil. Context is always the final
judge of whether theos should be translated “God”
or “god.” 2. The Semitic languages, and both the Latin and Greek spoken by the early Christians, used the word
“God” with a broader meaning than we do today.
“God” was a descriptive title applied to a range of
authorities, including great people, rulers and people
acting with God’s authority. In John 10:33, when
the Jews challenged Jesus and said he was claiming to be “a god” (mistranslated in most versions as
“God”; see our note on that verse), he answered
them by asking them if they had read in the Old
Testament that people to whom the Word of God
came were called “GODS” (and we use all caps here
because the earliest texts did. It is hard to escape the modern notion that “God” refers to the True
God and “gods” referred to lesser deities). Any study of the words for “God” in both Hebrew
and Greek will show that they were applied to
people as well as to God. This is strange to English-
speaking people because we use “God” in reference
only to the true God, but both Hebrew and Greek
used “God” of God, great men, other gods, angels and divine beings. It is the context that determines
whether “God” or a great person is being referred
to. This is actually a cause of occasional
disagreement between translators, and they
sometimes argue about whether “GOD” refers to
God, the Father, or to a powerful person or representative of God. One example of this occurs
in Exodus 21:6, which instructs a master whose
servant wishes to serve him for life to bring the
servant “to Elohim.” The KJV, the NIV and many
others believe that the owner of the servant is
supposed to bring the servant before the local authorities, and so they translate Elohim as
“judges” (see also Ex. 22:8 and 9 for more examples)
. Other translators felt that the master was
required to bring the servant to God, so they
translated Elohim as “God.”(e.g., NRSV) Thus, the
verse will read, “God” or “judges,” depending on the translation. Hebrews 1:8 is like other verses in that just because
the word “theos” (“GOD”) is used does not mean
that it refers to the Father. It could easily be
referring to “god” in the biblical sense that great
men are called “god.” The Septuagint uses the word
theos for God, but also for men in places like Psalm 82 where men represent God. The context must be
the determining factor in deciding what “GOD”
refers to. In this case, in Hebrews that we are
studying, the context is clear. Throughout the
entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to
be lesser than God the Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.” 3. The context must determine whether Christ is being referred to as the Supreme Being or just a
man with great authority, so it must be read
carefully. In this case, however, one need not read
far to find that Christ, called “God,” himself has a
“God.” The very next verse, Hebrews 1:9, says,
“therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.” Thus, Christ cannot be the supreme
God, because the supreme God does not have a God.
Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others
and “anointed” him. This makes it abundantly clear
that the use of theos here in Hebrews is not
referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another
God. Andrews Norton writes: Here the context proves that the word “God” does
not denote the Supreme Being, but is used in an
inferior sense. This is admitted by some of the most
respectable Trinitarian critics. Thus, the Rev. Dr.
Mayer remarks: “Here the Son is addressed by the
title God: but the context shows that it is an official title which designates him as a king: he has
a kingdom, a throne and a scepter; and in verse 9 he
is compared with other kings, who are called his
fellows; but God can have no fellows. As the Son,
therefore, he is classed with the kings of the earth,
and his superiority over them consists in this, that he is anointed with the oil of gladness above them;
inasmuch as their thrones are temporary, but his
shall be everlasting.” [2] 4. The verse is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7. The Jews read this verse for centuries and, knowing the
flexibility of the word “God,” never concluded that
the Messiah would somehow be part of a Triune
God. 5. We must note that the verse in the Greek text can also be translated as, “Thy throne is God.”
However, because the verse is a reference from the
Old Testament, and because we believe that God,
the Father, is calling His Christ a “god” (i.e., one
with divine authority), there is no need to translate
the verse other than, “Thy throne, O god, is forever.”

ijawkid:

In other words you are saying Yahweh is noob saibot of mortal kombat...........
Mumu trinity apologists...


U fail to read ur colossians between lines.....

Jesus was a medium an agent of creation.....

Through Jesus or by Jesus all things were created.....

Ofcus that should be d exception of Yahweh who gave Jesus that power and responsibility to engage in creation....

When u guys read d bible u throw away ur senses because paganism has enveloped it..

Please compare 1corinthians 15:27 $ 28

And see what it means when it says Jesus has all power and authority...

He is not d source of all power,but 1 who had received power from Yahweh...

Jesus was given power to do what ever he has achieved and all that is still to d glory of Yahweh his God and Father...


Because ""Yahweh is greater than he is""

How can Jesus be greater than himself.....

Trinity will make adults think like toddlers.....

look at this cretin calling names..You are soo ignorant its not even funny trust me..your level of consciousness is low so I am going to let nature take its course on you...

I have explained that your " How can Jesus be greater than himself " drivel a few times but you never got it because you lack wisdom ..I will try one more time and then leave you alone...

First of Jesus cannot be greater than himself..The Godhead is not one being playing three persons at the same time... The Godhead is three distinct persons.. they each have a will and can speak, love etc and yet each is In the other and they are God (I used an equilateral triangle as an example last time). The real name of this God I'm the Hebrew scriptures is Yod Heh Vav Heh”...

""In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the Word was God" The father didn't create the Word( Yashua), the Word was right there with the father right from the beginning not after, and this Word was also God.

The father created the universe through the word/ son..In other words The Word created the universe..The father directs and the son obeys and acts with the power of God... So the roles are different But they are God.. Each is in the other and equal.. Seeng one means you've seen the other.

The fathers role is " greater" just like a man's role is " greater" than the woman... Greater here does not mean better or higher quality..It just means more, or of higher quantity/ rank..

The man is the head, directs and leads; the woman acts, submits, and obeys..This is all done out of love and not because one is mumu and the other of higher quality..In their core or essence the man and the woman are equal and one but the roles are different ..

Now if you operate with lower consciousness like most of mankind you won't understand this.. To them the woman is beneath the man because she submits and obeys...
This is as simple as I can explain this if you can't get this then you are not meant to get it so don't worry and let nature take it course

nyameke: look at this cretin calling names..You are soo ignorant its not even funny trust me..your level of consciousness is low so I am going to let nature take its course on you...

I have explained that your " How can Jesus be greater than himself " drivel a few times but you never got it because you lack wisdom ..I will try one more time and then leave you alone...

First of Jesus cannot be greater than himself..The Godhead is not one being playing three persons at the same time... The Godhead is three distinct persons.. they each have a will and can speak, love etc and yet each is In the other and they are God (I used an equilateral triangle as an example last time). The real name of this God I'm the Hebrew scriptures is Yod Heh Vav Heh”...

""In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the Word was God" The father didn't create the Word( Yashua), the Word was right there with the father right from the beginning not after, and this Word was also God.

The father created the universe through the word/ son..In other words The Word created the universe..The father directs and the son obeys and acts with the power of God... So the roles are different But they are God.. Each is in the other and equal.. Seeng one means you've seen the other.

The fathers role is " greater" just like a man's role is " greater" than the woman... Greater here does not mean better or higher quality..It just means more, or of higher quantity/ rank..

The man is the head, directs and leads; the woman acts, submits, and obeys..This is all done out of love and not because one is mumu and the other of higher quality..In their core or essence the man and the woman are equal and one but the roles are different ..

Now if you operate with lower consciousness like most of mankind you won't understand this.. To them the woman is beneath the man because she submits and obeys...
This is as simple as I can explain this if you can't get this then you are not meant to get it so don't worry and let nature take it course

Read that research work up there my freind...lol


That john 1:1 following ya analogy will only mean we have 2 true Gods instead of 1...

Because John 1:1 says the word which was God was with another God....

The context is what u shuld be considering,not just reading John 1:1 like a story.......

If Jesus was with somebody in d beginning,who was it??

And is he still d person he was with..................

Then we can call Jesus noob saibot.....


Sorry if I used some words on u...I'm sorry...

Please just read up that write up I tagged to naibe's comment about the title God and d review of hebrews 1:8 $ 9...

I earlier had given u guys many examples...

If u dnt read d bible in d right context u will end up confusing yaself...

I gave d example of d word LUCIFER ....

If I tell u Jesus is LUCIFER I know u will so argue with me...

But if u understand that word and then read scriptures in context u'll understand many points in d scriptures..

haibe:
Yes you can

Okay, Q1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Gen. 1:1

In this context, which God is this or what God is this talking about?