i dnt follow any religion cuz they all have flaws. however i'm convinced in my soul dat GOD is watching over me. i believe in GOD directly, nt thru any religion....

IF MEN WERE GOD!!!...*SMH*

Avicenna:
What I meant is that it requires a single person to develop immunity to a disease for generations later to be completely immune to it. If for instance,a man is born with scales and the environment changes(comets,tsunami,diseases,drought,famine etc) in such a way that having scales becomes an advantage in that crucial fight for survival,all generations will soon have scales.

Considering how long it takes to develop that immunity, what do you think would happen to the population prior?

Your example, while valid, is just too simplistic. Imagine a single error mutation in the development of the heart or blood? Considering the millions of yrs it would take to correct that error... do you think we would have made it to the yr 2012? Statistically our chances would be a big fat zero.

I believe it is perfectly ok to not have a belief in "god", but to try to use science to justify that belief makes no sense to me. Much of your logic here is deeply flawed.

We are still existing. Whichever way adaptation occured.
Am off to my bed. Not spending all night here.

@op,if I may ask you a simple question, how do you think the universe came about?

davidylan:

Considering how long it takes to develop that immunity, what do you think would happen to the population prior?

Your example, while valid, is just too simplistic. Imagine a single error mutation in the development of the heart or blood? Considering the millions of yrs it would take to correct that error... do you think we would have made it to the yr 2012? Statistically our chances would be a big fat zero.

I believe it is perfectly ok to not have a belief in "god", but to try to use science to justify that belief makes no sense to me. Much of your logic here is deeply flawed.

You seem to think the mutations will occur at once in all populations. No, It doesn't work like that. Mutation of the genes controlling the heart will most likely result in death even before birth. But it may result in an even stronger heart. Bear in mind,this take place over thousands of years. Our ability to adapt is what helped us here. Without it,statistically,we will be dead. Extinct.
We are different,me and you in biologically profound ways. Do you know that when the bubonic plague struck,there were people with immunity to it? All it requires was those people to breed and the human race continues. In a short time,we will be back to the 450 million they were then.

seguun: @op,if I may ask you a simple question, how do you think the universe came about?

The BiG BANG.
What happened before that cannot be adequately explained and proven......yet. Until the LHC tests it out that is. ( The CERN project)

Avicenna:
You seem to think the mutations will occur at once in all populations. No, It doesn't work like that. Mutation of the genes controlling the heart will most likely result in death even before birth. But it may result in an even stronger heart. Bear in mind,this take place over thousands of years. Our ability to adapt is what helped us here. Without it,statistically,we will be dead. Extinct.
We are different,me and you in biologically profound ways. Do you know that when the bubonic plague struck,there were people with immunity to it? All it requires was those people to breed and the human race continues. In a short time,we will back to the 450 million they were then.

thumbs up

Avicenna:
You seem to think the mutations will occur at once in all populations. No, It doesn't work like that. Mutation of the genes controlling the heart will most likely result in death even before birth. But it may result in an even stronger heart. Bear in mind,this take place over thousands of years. Our ability to adapt is what helped us here. Without it,statistically,we will be dead. Extinct.
We are different,me and you in biologically profound ways. Do you know that when the bubonic plague struck,there were people with immunity to it? All it requires was those people to breed and the human race continues. In a short time,we will back to the 450 million they were then.

One simple question... how did we survive prior to developing our circulatory system?

Avicenna:
My 'soul' which I regard as my mind tells me to do this. I have no fear. None whatsoever.

I just realised u Don't know what u r saying becuz, u Just Spoke out of Mind and u made ME run more closer to GOD, wen i was actualy enjoying ur teachins and believing u, 1 way or the other from the beginning. May be u smoked WEED d hour b4 u wrote this....

davidylan:

One simple question... how did we survive prior to developing our circulatory system?

The reason we develop a circulatory system is that the surface area to volume ratio was getting smaller. And the unicellullar organisms method of transportation was no longer adequate. It either remain like that or innovate.
A unicellullar organism,poriferans, had not much need for a complex structure.
I don't want to go deep into basic biology. The results is obvious.

Bimfo:
I just realised u Don't know what u r saying becuz, u Just Spoke out of Mind and u made ME run more closer to GOD, wen i was actualy enjoying ur teachins and believing u, 1 way or the other from the beginning. May be u smoked WEED d hour b4 u wrote this....

Hehe. See you purposely misreading my post. I have a mind. It is what religionists regard as your soul. Just semantics. I m in full control of my mind. I can assure you I m NOT out of my mind.
Btw,I spoke weed after I posted this,hehehe.
Just kidding with ya.

Bimfo:
I just realised u Don't know what u r saying becuz, u Just Spoke out of Mind and u made ME run more closer to GOD, wen i was actualy enjoying ur teachins and believing u, 1 way or the other from the beginning. May be u smoked WEED d hour b4 u wrote this....

Hehe. See you purposely misreading my post. I have a mind. It is what religionists regard as your soul. Just semantics. I m in full control of my mind. I can assure you I m NOT out of my mind.
Btw,I smoke weed AFTER I posted this,hehehe.
Just kidding with ya.

E be lyk say Seun go go hell, with all this nonsense wey dey im site... SEUN, ask for Mercy, beg for MERCY, cos GOD will soon visit NAIRALAND....

Avicenna:
The reason we develop a circulatory system is that the surface area to volume ratio was getting smaller. And the unicellullar organisms method of transportation was no longer adequate. It either remain like that or innovate.
A unicellullar organism,poriferans, had not much need for a complex structure.
I don't want to go deep into basic biology. The results is obvious.

you dint answer the question... he asked "One simple question... how did we survive prior to developing our circulatory system?"

davidylan:

Considering how long it takes to develop that immunity, what do you think would happen to the population prior?

Your example, while valid, is just too simplistic. Imagine a single error mutation in the development of the heart or blood? Considering the millions of yrs it would take to correct that error... do you think we would have made it to the yr 2012? Statistically our chances would be a big fat zero.

With all due respect this is nothing more than an argument from incredulity which was your primary tool of argumentation when we last debated such matters. The bubonic plague(which happened several times), is an example of where immunity is not even required to survive a disease. If a virus/bacteria kills all its host before they can be transmitted, then it will in turn go into extinction/isolation(if a viable carrier exists).
If an error that was so severe that its prevalence in a population could cause extinction, then statistically it is unlikely to have propagated very far in the first place. Like the virus/bacteria, if a disease kills all its "host" before they can be transmit, then it will in turn go into extinction/isolation. After all, it has to be benign enough to at least allow for organism to reproduce.

davidylan:
I believe it is perfectly ok to not have a belief in "god", but to try to use science to justify that belief makes no sense to me. Much of your logic here is deeply flawed.

Many if not all claims with "god" are invariably scientific. Virgin birth is a scientific claim. Being able to raise the dead is a scientific claim. Floating up to heaven(the) sky unaided is a scientific claim. If the premise for a belief in god revolves around erroneous scientific claims then disbelief because of science the only logical path. We use science to debunk bad science.

fortran12:

you dint answer the question... he asked "One simple question... how did we survive prior to developing our circulatory system?"

See,some primitive forms of circulatory system have always existed. They are not even worthy of being regarded as a system. If he wants to know the in-depth technical details,I will refer you and him to the secondary school Modern Biology. Its not necessary to type easy things like that here.

Avicenna, do not reject God Most High, but you can study the history of your people to know yourself better and see therein the cover-ups and deceits - including Christianity-Islam-Judaism religions of impostors. Please consider the articles here

http://dierklange.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=32

@Op
I for one wish you the best. It is probably not going to be easy for you(in your personal life), but knowing the truth of things rarely is. People cannot even define the thing called God in any meaningful/coherent/clear manner, so you are clearly wise for not sweating the small stuff like "If there is no God, why are we not dead already?" and other silly retorts/questions.

Idehn: @Op
I for one wish you the best. It is probably not going to be easy for you(in your personal life), but knowing the truth of things rarely is. People cannot even define the thing called God in any meaningful/coherent/clear manner, so do not sweat the small stuff like "If there is no God, why are we not dead already?" and other silly retorts etc. . .

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

omg, I'm so happy I saw this post. I understand some people's need for religion, because they don't want to feel like they are alone(even though they are), and people also want to belong to some group, which religion tends to provide...but the notion of a some supernatural diety coming down from heaven to smite us all..kinda seems like a threat. Plus in my opinion, religion is a key factor in Nigeria's current situation, cos people are taught to wait for God to come save them, and that God will provide, and hope like this might be fun to have...but its kind of baseless

Avicenna:
Mutation of the genes controlling the heart will most likely result in death even before birth. But it may result in an even stronger heart. Bear in mind,this take place over thousands of years. Our ability to adapt is what helped us here. Without it,statistically,we will be dead. Extinct.
We are different,me and you in biologically profound ways. Do you know that when the bubonic plague struck,there were people with immunity to it? All it requires was those people to breed and the human race continues. In a short time,we will be back to the 450 million they were then.

True. Thing is, we always lived. The nature of creation ensured that humans remained on earth, regardless of whatever plague or calamity they faced or whatever means they took to adapt.
The earth itself, is positioned at just the right distance from the sun that all living things on earth
tolerate temperatures. The combination of gases in the atmosphere forms Ozone which is supposed to protect us (before human activities started destroying it.)
The Sun rotates at an axis that ensures that sunlight gets to every location and ensures the growth of vegetation that carry out photosynthesis that provides the oxygen we need to exist.
That, right there is order that has being kept in place for millions of years.
Also, the sun's gravitational pull holds the solar system together, the planets, the comets and space dust are attracted and held together by that pull. If not for that pull, things will float off into space and the temperature of the earth will be too cold to support life and living creatures will perish. This gravitational pull, if it was greater than it is, the earth will be drawn so close to the sun that the temperature will be too hot for living things to survive.
How did that pull come about? How has it being kept at just the right amount over all these centuries to ensure evolution and survival?
If you maintain that these things don't prove the existence of a force behind creation then I have nothing else to tell you.

Sorry for the epistle, Avicenna but one last question; if living things came about by spontaneous generation, then every living thing came from inorganic matter, energy and space and if all things are made up of inorganic matter, energy and space, then where did consciousness come from?

Avicenna:
The BiG BANG.
What happened before that cannot be adequately explained and proven......yet. Until the LHC tests it out that is. ( The CERN project)

Do you know Allah talks about the big bang in the quran?
The Miracle Of Quran-The Big Bang
Theory - YouTube
VIDEO - 2 min - youtube.com
rtsp://v8.cache7.c.youtube.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQmxONYl5fOVGRMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOvd75zhkcC3Tww=/0/0/0/video.3gp

@Avicenna

I am not here to argue with you over what you have chosen to do. All I can tell you is that Jesus Christ is coming soon. This has nothing to do with man made religion. This is fact. This is the wrong time to give up on Christ Jesus and God the Almighty Father because we are living in the last days. Seek Him (Jesus) and you will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). I can personally tell you that if it is not for God Almighty and His son Jesus Christ the Messiah and the Holy Spirit, I don't know where I will be today. I have been through so much trials and tribulations but Jesus Christ never forsook me.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one cometh to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). We go through so many life challenges but at the end Jesus Christ grants us the victory. I implore you to seek Jesus the Good Shepherd. He is at the door of your heart knocking and asking to come in. Tomorrow might be too late. Do not believe the lies of the evil one satan telling you that you are free. You may think you are free but you are not. The enemy has come to kill, steal and destroy but Jesus Christ came to give us life, eternal life (John 10:10). Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). Repent now and give your life to Christ Jesus please because tomorrow might be too late. You are in my prayers.

dasparrow: @Avicenna

I am not here to argue with you over what you have chosen to do. All I can tell you is that Jesus Christ is coming soon. This has nothing to do with man made religion. This is fact. This is the wrong time to give up on Christ Jesus and God the Almighty Father because we are living in the last days. Seek Him (Jesus) and you will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). I can personally tell you that if it is not for God Almighty and His son Jesus Christ the Messiah and the Holy Spirit, I don't know where I will be today. I have been through so much trials and tribulations but Jesus Christ never forsook me.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one cometh to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). We go through so many life challenges but at the end Jesus Christ grants us the victory. I implore you to seek Jesus the Good Shepherd. He is at the door of your heart knocking and asking to come in. Tomorrow might be too late. Do not believe the lies of the evil one satan telling you that you are free. You may think you are free but you are not. The enemy has come to kill, steal and destroy but Jesus Christ came to give us life, eternal life (John 10:10). Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). Repent now and give your life to Christ Jesus please because tomorrow might be too late. You are in my prayers.

nice. love the combination of old and new testament

Avicenna:
The BiG BANG.
What happened before that cannot be adequately explained and proven......yet. Until the LHC tests it out that is. ( The CERN project)

Do you know Allah talks about the big bang in the quran? please kindly read this article:The Miracle of the Space Fabric -
Mentioned in the Glorious Quran and
confirmed by Science.
The Big Bang Theory and the Cosmic
Crunch in the Noble Quran:
The sections of this article are:
1- The Universe was formed from hot
gaseous in the Noble Quran.
2- The Bible never mentioned
anything about the formation of the
Universe.
3- Articles and links of official web
sites that confirm the Noble Quran's
claims.
4- When the Cosmic Crunch to the
Universe occurs, the Day of
Judgment shall come. Prophet
Muhammad predicted that the Sun will
rise from the West.
1-
The Universe was formed from hot
gaseous in the Noble Quran:
Let us look what Allah Almighty said
about the Universe in the Noble
Quran:
"Moreover He comprehended in
His design the sky, and it had
been (as) smoke: He said to it and
to the earth: 'Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We
do come (together), in willing
obedience.' So He completed them as
seven firmaments in two Days, and He
assigned to each heaven its duty and
command. And We adorned the lower
heaven with lights, and (provided it)
with guard. Such is the Decree of
(Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of
Knowledge. (The Noble Quran,
41:11-12)"
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the
heavens and the earth were joined
together (as one unit of creation),
before we clove them asunder?
We made from water every living
thing. Will they not then believe? (The
Noble Quran, 21:30)"
The Arabic word for "sky" in Noble
Verse 41:11 above is "samaa", which
is the same word used for "heaven"
and "Universe". Since the 7 heavens
didn't exist yet (because the seven
firmaments or heavens were
mentioned in the next Noble Verse
41:12), then this CLEARLY MAKES the
"samaa" be referring to the Universe,
since the heaven was the entire
Universe when GOD Almighty
"comprehended in His design the sky".
He then later divided it into seven
firmaments or heavens.
Anyway, as we clearly see above in
the Noble Verses, Allah Almighty
initially created the Universe or the
"samaa" with smoke (Dukhan).
Dukhan in Arabic refers to the smoke
coming from fire, which is always HOT
GAS.
A new star forming out of a cloud of
gas and dust (nebula), which is one of
the remnants of the "smoke" that
was the origin of the whole
universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather
and Henbest, page 50)
Allah Almighty said: "Then He turned
to the heaven when it was smoke...
(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"
The Noble Quran on the Origin of the
Universe
Only Islam claims that the universe
was originated from Dust and Hot Gas,
or Smoke.
Now as to Noble Verse 21:30 above,
according to the Big Bang Theory, the
Universe experienced an unbelievable
explosion from the hot gases that were
forming it, which caused the Universe
(which consisted of the ball of gases)
to split and expand. The Earth was
separated then from the gaseous mass
that was forming the Universe. The
gases according to the scientific
articles below in this article made "the
universe be consisted of compact ball
of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons,
electrons, and their anti-particles --
plus radiation. There were not
differentiated planets, stars, suns,
galaxies. Five billion years ago, the
compact hydrogen soup blasted apart
with huge force, matter was hurled in
all directions, and the universe
doubled in size. This expansion of
the universe is still going
on." [taken from "Ask Yahoo" web site
at http://ask.yahoo.com/
ask/20001027.html
]
It is really interesting to know that the
Big Bang Theory suggests that the
Universe is still expanding until today,
because this is EXACTLY what Allah
Almighty also claimed in the Noble
Quran:
"And the firmament, We constructed
with power and skill and verily We
are expanding it. (The Noble Quran,
51:47)"
Again, the word "samaa" was used for
"firmament". "samaa" as I mentioned
above means either "heaven", or
"Universe" depending on how it is
used. Certainly, the meaning of the
word "samaa" in Noble Verse 51:47 is
"Universe".
Please visit How could Allah create the
world in 6 days if science has proved
that the world and universe took
millions of years to make?
Also, since Allah Almighty didn't have
any names for the explosive gases
(such as hydrogen) 1400 years ago,
He summed them up by calling them
"smoke (dukhan)", which is literally a
hot gas. Smoke is also ball-shaped and
compacted together while it is hot and
in the air. This description perfectly
fits what the big bang theory suggests
from the shape of the "compact ball"
of gases that formed the Universe.
2-
The Bible never mentioned anything
about the formation of the Universe:
No where in the Bible do we see any
mention of the creation of the
Universe. The Bible lacks a great deal
of information about how GOD
Almighty created things.
3-
Articles and links of official web sites
that confirm the Noble Quran's claims:
The following links and article prove
that the Big Bang Theory existed in
the Noble Quran 1400 years ago.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/
verses_sci.htm
http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/pub/bigbang/
part1.html
This page has "Next" button at the
bottom of it which continues with the
next pages.
http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry//
ask/acosmexp.html
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/
features/news/21nov00.html
http://www.er.doe.gov/feature_
articles_2001/June/Decades/38.html
The following article was taken from
http://ask.yahoo.com/
ask/20001027.html
Note: The underlined in dark green
words prove that the Universe was
originally formed by hot gaseous.
Dear Yahoo!
What exactly is the Big Bang
Theory?
Gigi
Atlanta, Georgia
Dear Gigi:
The Big Bang Theory is
currently the dominant
scientific explanation for the
origin of the universe. It was
first proposed in 1927 by a
Belgian priest named George
Lemaître.
We found a collection of sites
about the Big Bang theory in a
Yahoo! Astrophysics
subcategory called Universal
Origins by searching on "big
bang." This mind-boggling
array of resources proved a
little too scientific, so we tried
to find a simpler place to start.
A fascinating physics study
module called Violence in
the Cosmos provided us with
some Big Bang basics:
Ten to twenty billion years
ago, the universe consisted
of a compact ball of
hydrogen -- protons,
neutrons, electrons, and
their anti-particles -- plus
radiation. There were no
differentiated planets,
stars, suns, galaxies.
Five billion years ago, the
compact hydrogen soup
blasted apart with huge
force, matter was hurled in
all directions, and the
universe doubled in size.
This expansion of the
universe is still going on.
The blast caused a major
decrease in the density and
temperature of the
universe after which no
new particles could be
formed. Then the particle
wars began. Particles and
anti-particles fought it out
in a frenzy of self-
destruction. The universe
was left with a greatly
reduced collection of
positively-charged nuclei
and negatively-charged
electrons in a vast plasma
soup.
Although plasma (ionized
gas) rarely occurs on
Earth's electrically neutral
surface, 99% of the matter
of the Universe still exists
in a plasma state.
The Big Bang produced the
light elements hydrogen
and helium. Heavier
elements are usually
produced in the violent
processes associated with
the death of stars.
Despite later discoveries by
astronomer Edwin Hubble and
Nobel Prize-winning scientists
Arno Penzias and Robert
Wilson that appear to support
Lemaître's theory, the theory
remains controversial and
alternative explanations for the
origin of the universe abound.
The following article was taken
from http://
www.cosmiverse.com/
space122204.html
Big Bang
Theory -
Proof at
Last
December
22, 2000
07:45 CDT
For the first
time, an actual measurement
has been made of the
temperature of the cosmic
microwave background
radiation, at a time when the
Universe was only about 2.5
billion years old. A team of
astronomers from India, France
and ESO achieved this
fundamental and very difficult
observation by obtaining a
detailed spectrum of a quasar
in the distant Universe, using
the UV-Visual Echelle
Spectrograph (UVES)
instrument at the ESO 8.2-m
VLT KUEYEN telescope at the
Paranal Observatory.
Most astrophysicists believe
that the Universe was formed
in what is known as the Big
Bang. If this were true, the
glow of this primeval fireball
should have been warmer in
the past - which is exactly what
they found by the new
measurements.
According to a recent press
release by the European
Southern Observatory: This
analysis of the VLT spectrum of
the distant quasar not only
gives the definitive proof of the
presence of the relict radiation
in the early Universe, it also
shows that it was indeed
significantly warmer than it is
today, as predicted by the
theory.
American physicists Arno A.
Penzias and Robert W. Wilson,
who were rewarded with the
Nobel Prize in 1978,
discovered the primeval
fireball's relict radiation. Their
discovery was made in 1964
by means of radio
observations. Precision
measurements by the COBE
satellite later showed that this
ancient radiation fills the
Universe, with a present-day
temperature of slightly less
than 3 degrees above zero.
This radiation comes from all
directions, yet it is extremely
uniform. Slight temperature
variations in different
directions have been
measured most recently by
means of detailed observations
from a balloon above
Antarctica (the Boomerang
experiment).
Since the universe is
expanding, it must have been
denser in the past. A particular
prediction of the Big Bang
theory is also that the
temperature of the CMBR must
have been higher at earlier
times. However, although quite
a few attempts have been
made, no clear observational
confirmation of this has been
possible so far. In fact, the best
observations until now have
only been able to establish
upper limits to the cosmic
temperature at earlier epochs.
It was actually suggested more
than 30 years ago that
observing specific absorption
lines in the spectra of distant
quasars could test the
predicted increase of
temperature with distance
(redshift).
The idea is simply that at
earlier epochs, the CMBR was
hot enough to excite certain
atomic levels, and thus to give
rise to particular absorption
lines in the spectrum of a
celestial object.
Some faint
absorption
lines of
neutral
carbon
atoms were found to be
especially promising, in the
sense that they were predicted
to be very sensitive to the
surrounding temperature.
However, previous generations
of (smaller) astronomical
telescopes were unable to
achieve spectra of sufficient
quality of these faint
absorption lines in faint and
remote objects in the early
(more distant) Universe.
The advent of 8-m class
telescopes has now changed
this situation. A few years ago,
the 10-m Keck telescope
(Mauna Kea, Hawaii, USA)
obtained a spectrum of a
quasar that was sufficiently
detailed to determine an upper
limit to the temperature of the
CMBR at the corresponding
epoch, about 3.4 billion years
after the Big Bang.
However, a major difficulty of
such observations is the
necessity to exclude other
sources of excitation (heating).
It is well known that some
other physical processes may
also affect the observed
absorption lines, such as
collisions between the atoms
and heating by the ultraviolet
light emitted by young and hot
stars.
The main problem is therefore
to disentangle the various
effects in order to "isolate" that
of the CMBR. This can only be
achieved by means of
exceptionally "clean" and
detailed spectra of these faint
objects, a demanding task. For
that reason all previous
measurements have only led
to upper limits on the CMBR
temperature.
The new VLT spectrum of the
quasar PKS 1232+0815
provides the long hoped-for
break-through in this
important area of cosmological
research.
On its way to us, the light from
this distant object is absorbed
by intervening material,
among other by a gaseous
cloud in a galaxy at high
redshift (z = 2.34). This
distance corresponds to a
cosmic time when the Universe
was less than one fifth of its
present age.
Another detailed analysis
allowed the determination of
the physical conditions in the
cloud - the presence of
molecular hydrogen lines was
crucial for this to succeed. It
clearly showed that the
excitation process of atomic
collisions couldn't be solely
responsible for the shape and
strength of the observed
absorption lines. An additional
source of heat must be present
and this can only be the
heating by the CMBR.
Moreover, it was possible to
place constraints on the effect
of other possible excitation
processes. This made it
possible for the astronomers to
derive the temperature T of the
CMBR at this large distance
and early cosmic epoch and to
place a very firm lower limit on
this temperature. The final
result is that T is hotter than 6
K and cooler than 14 K; this is
in full agreement with the Big
Bang prediction of T = 9 K.
This is thus the first real proof
that the CMBR was indeed
warmer in the past.
Source: Press Release
4-
When the Cosmic Crunch to the
Universe occurs, the Day of Judgment
shall come:
Please also visit: The Miracle of the
Space Fabric - Mentioned in the
Glorious Quran and confirmed by
Science.
Let us look at what Allah Almighty said
about the "Cosmic Crunch" Theory:
ﻳﻮﻡ ﻧﻄﻮﻱ ﺍﻟﺴﻤﺎﺀ ﻛﻄﻲ ﺍﻟﺴﺠﻞ ﻟﻠﻜﺘﺐ
ﻛﻤﺎ ﺑﺪﺃﻧﺎ ﺃﻭﻝ ﺧﻠﻖ ﻧﻌﻴﺪﻩ ﻭﻋﺪﺍ ﻋﻠﻴﻨﺎ ﺇﻧﺎ ﻛﻨﺎ
ﻓﻌﻠﻴﻦ
"The Day that We roll up the
heavens like a scroll rolled up for
books (completed),- even as We
produced the first creation, so shall
We produce a new one: a promise We
have undertaken: truly shall We fulfill
it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
Notice here how Allah Almighty Said
that He will ROLL BACK the heavens
like a scroll rolled up.
NASA's discovery only 8
years ago!
The following link and quote
were sent to me by brother
Usman; may Allah Almighty
always be pleased with him.
"The simplest version of the
inflationary theory, an
extension of the Big Bang
theory, predicts that the
density of the universe is very
close to the critical density,
and that the geometry of
the universe is flat, like a
sheet of paper. That is the
result confirmed by the WMAP
science." (http://
map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/
uni_shape.html
)
They have discovered only 8
years ago; that the Universe is
flat! The best way the NASA
scientists could describe the
Universe is "like a sheet of
paper," which Allah Almighty
has already described 1,400
years ago to a goat herder and
illiterate Bedouin and Shepard,
our beloved and blessed
Prophet Muhammad, Peace,
Mercy and Blessings be upon
him. Ameen.
From: Ozee JR <usmantech@
hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: A New Miracle of
Quran subhanAllah, Not yet
found by anyone - NOT A
Useless email inshAllah Trust
me. - NASA/TIME/BBC
To: quransearchcom@
yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009,
8:31 AM
As'salamu Alaikum dear
brother Osama,
You are the first one I am
telling, besides my brother,
This miracle I have not found
documented anywhere and
Science found this about 8
years ago only !!!!!!!
Confirmed By NASA and the
links I will give you will be
NASA/TIME/BBC
( 21:104) -
The Day that we roll up the
heavens like a scroll rolled up
for books (completed)
1. Allah is comparing the
Universe to a Scroll of Paper,
1400 years ago. And see what
the best scientists in the world
at NASA found out in the 21st
CENTURY !!!! 2001 !!!
"and that the geometry of the
universe is flat, like a sheet of
paper" - NASA
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
universe/uni_shape.html
They have found out only 8
years ago that Universe is flat
and the best way NASA
scentist use to describe to a
layman is like a sheet of
paper , Allah describes the
universe as a scroll 1400 years
ago !!! Who can know
something that scentist were
only able to find out 8 years
ago ?? Arab goat herders ? or
the One who has first hand
knowledge of it ? The Creater
Allah that Abraham , Moses,
Jesus, Mohammed prayed to ?
THIS IS NOT A THEORY
From the same NASA Page:
"That is the result confirmed
by the WMAP science.
Measurements from WMAP
The WMAP spacecraft can
measure the basic parameters
of the Big Bang theory
including the geometry of the
universe. If the universe were
open, the brightest microwave
background fluctuations
(or "spots" would be about
half a degree across. If the
universe were flat, the spots
would be about 1 degree
across. While if the universe
were closed, the brightest
spots would be about 1.5
degrees across.
Recent measurements (c.
2001) by a number of ground-
based and balloon-based
experiments, including MAT/
TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima,
and DASI, have shown that the
brightest spots are about 1
degree across. Thus the
universe was known to be flat
to within about 15% accuracy
prior to the WMAP results.
WMAP has confirmed this
result with very high accuracy
and precision. We now know
that the universe is flat with
only a 2% margin of error."
Also:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/
tech/727073.stm
http://www.time.com/time/
covers/1101010625/story.html
2. Yun Wang1
, Jan Michael Kratochvil
, Andrei Linde2
, and Marina Shmakova3
Department of Physics &
Astronomy,
Univ. of Oklahoma
Have written a detailed
scientific paper on end of
Universe:
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-
ph/0409264
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/
astro-ph/
pdf/0409/0409264v2.pdf
Abstract
In a broad class of dark energy
models, the universe may
collapse within a finite time tc.
Here
we study a representative
model of dark energy with a
linear potential, V (φ) = V0(1 +
αφ). This
model is the simplest
doomsday model, in which the
universe collapses rather
quickly after it stops
expanding. Observational data
from type Ia supernovae (SNe
Ia), cosmic microwave
background
anisotropy (CMB), and large
scale structure (LSS) are
complementary in constraining
dark energy
models. Using the new SN Ia
data (Riess sample), the CMB
data from WMAP, and the LSS
data
from 2dF, we find that the
collapse time of the universe is
tc > ∼ 42 (24) gigayears from
today at 68%
(95%) confidence.
PACS numbers: 98.80.Cq,
11.25.-w, 04.65.+e
Allah likens the end of universe
roll up the heavens like a scroll
rolled up for books ,
a scroll takes a long time to
write (relatively) and once
written it is rolled up very very
quickly (relatively). This is
what
these sceintists have found out
in 2008 !!! I will not go into this
too much as this is too
complicated a topic for me and
should be
taken as something of interest.
also on expansion
Allahsays in the Holy Quran
what means " And it is We
Who have constructed the
heaven with might, and
verily, it is We Who are
steadily expanding it.
(Qur'an, 51:47)
And also Allah uses the word
we have constructed the
heaven with might, as we all
know scientifically no citation
required that heaven was
created with incredible energy
and force, an imposter god/
holy book would have used the
words we constructed the
heavens with ease, no problem
for any god, easy job, i dont
need might I am God. But Allah
describes that massive energy
was required for the creation of
the Earth.
I think I am going to revisit
each and ever miracle and
reanalyze them
Please reply if you find this
useful and any comments
where I might have gone
wrong or misunderstood
something.
Allah Hafiz
Usman
The following article http://
www.bigear.org/vol1no4/wheeler.htm
, which contains an interview with a
Scientist, Professor John Archibald
Wheeler, who was a colleague of
Albert Einstein, explains the Noble
Verse above in good details.
Important Note: Before we go into
the article, it is important to know that
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him had also talked about the "Cosmic
Crunch" Theory by predicting that the
Sun around the time of the Cosmic
Crunch's occurrence would rise from
the West and set in the East due to a
change in our orbit's rotation. Who
knows, perhaps the "Cosmic Crunch"
would cause the Earth to flip upside
down, which would cause the sun to
rise from the West and set in the East,
or perhaps it would change the
rotation of the sun and its planets all
together:
Narrated Abu Dhar: "The Prophet
asked me at sunset, 'Do you know
where the sun goes (at the time of
sunset)?' I replied, 'Allah and His
Apostle know better.' He said, 'It goes
(i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself
underneath the Throne and takes the
permission to rise again, and it is
permitted and then (a time will come
when) it will be about to prostrate
itself but its prostration will not be
accepted, and it will ask permission to
go on its course but it will not be
permitted, but it will be ordered to
return whence it has come and so
it will rise in the west. And that is
the interpretation of the Statement of
Allah: 'And the sun Runs its fixed
course For a term (decreed). that is
The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in
Might, The All-Knowing.' (36.38)
(Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Beginning of Creation, Volume 4, Book
54, Number 421) "
Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle
said, 'The Hour will not be
established.......The Miracle of the Space Fabric -
Mentioned in the Glorious Quran and
confirmed by Science.
The Big Bang Theory and the Cosmic
Crunch in the Noble Quran:
The sections of this article are:
1- The Universe was formed from hot
gaseous in the Noble Quran.
2- The Bible never mentioned
anything about the formation of the
Universe.
3- Articles and links of official web
sites that confirm the Noble Quran's
claims.
4- When the Cosmic Crunch to the
Universe occurs, the Day of
Judgment shall come. Prophet
Muhammad predicted that the Sun will
rise from the West.
1-
The Universe was formed from hot
gaseous in the Noble Quran:
Let us look what Allah Almighty said
about the Universe in the Noble
Quran:
"Moreover He comprehended in
His design the sky, and it had
been (as) smoke: He said to it and
to the earth: 'Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We
do come (together), in willing
obedience.' So He completed them as
seven firmaments in two Days, and He
assigned to each heaven its duty and
command. And We adorned the lower
heaven with lights, and (provided it)
with guard. Such is the Decree of
(Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of
Knowledge. (The Noble Quran,
41:11-12)"
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the
heavens and the earth were joined
together (as one unit of creation),
before we clove them asunder?
We made from water every living
thing. Will they not then believe? (The
Noble Quran, 21:30)"
The Arabic word for "sky" in Noble
Verse 41:11 above is "samaa", which
is the same word used for "heaven"
and "Universe". Since the 7 heavens
didn't exist yet (because the seven
firmaments or heavens were
mentioned in the next Noble Verse
41:12), then this CLEARLY MAKES the
"samaa" be referring to the Universe,
since the heaven was the entire
Universe when GOD Almighty
"comprehended in His design the sky".
He then later divided it into seven
firmaments or heavens.
Anyway, as we clearly see above in
the Noble Verses, Allah Almighty
initially created the Universe or the
"samaa" with smoke (Dukhan).
Dukhan in Arabic refers to the smoke
coming from fire, which is always HOT
GAS.
A new star forming out of a cloud of
gas and dust (nebula), which is one of
the remnants of the "smoke" that
was the origin of the whole
universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather
and Henbest, page 50)
Allah Almighty said: "Then He turned
to the heaven when it was smoke...
(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"
The Noble Quran on the Origin of the
Universe
Only Islam claims that the universe
was originated from Dust and Hot Gas,
or Smoke.
Now as to Noble Verse 21:30 above,
according to the Big Bang Theory, the
Universe experienced an unbelievable
explosion from the hot gases that were
forming it, which caused the Universe
(which consisted of the ball of gases)
to split and expand. The Earth was
separated then from the gaseous mass
that was forming the Universe. The
gases according to the scientific
articles below in this article made "the
universe be consisted of compact ball
of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons,
electrons, and their anti-particles --
plus radiation. There were not
differentiated planets, stars, suns,
galaxies. Five billion years ago, the
compact hydrogen soup blasted apart
with huge force, matter was hurled in
all directions, and the universe
doubled in size. This expansion of
the universe is still going
on." [taken from "Ask Yahoo" web site
at http://ask.yahoo.com/
ask/20001027.html
]
It is really interesting to know that the
Big Bang Theory suggests that the
Universe is still expanding until today,
because this is EXACTLY what Allah
Almighty also claimed in the Noble
Quran:
"And the firmament, We constructed
with power and skill and verily We
are expanding it. (The Noble Quran,
51:47)"
Again, the word "samaa" was used for
"firmament". "samaa" as I mentioned
above means either "heaven", or
"Universe" depending on how it is
used. Certainly, the meaning of the
word "samaa" in Noble Verse 51:47 is
"Universe".
Please visit How could Allah create the
world in 6 days if science has proved
that the world and universe took
millions of years to make?
Also, since Allah Almighty didn't have
any names for the explosive gases
(such as hydrogen) 1400 years ago,
He summed them up by calling them
"smoke (dukhan)", which is literally a
hot gas. Smoke is also ball-shaped and
compacted together while it is hot and
in the air. This description perfectly
fits what the big bang theory suggests
from the shape of the "compact ball"
of gases that formed the Universe.
2-
The Bible never mentioned anything
about the formation of the Universe:
No where in the Bible do we see any
mention of the creation of the
Universe. The Bible lacks a great deal
of information about how GOD
Almighty created things.
3-
Articles and links of official web sites
that confirm the Noble Quran's claims:
The following links and article prove
that the Big Bang Theory existed in
the Noble Quran 1400 years ago.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/
verses_sci.htm
http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/pub/bigbang/
part1.html
This page has "Next" button at the
bottom of it which continues with the
next pages.
http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry//
ask/acosmexp.html
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/
features/news/21nov00.html
http://www.er.doe.gov/feature_
articles_2001/June/Decades/38.html
The following article was taken from
http://ask.yahoo.com/
ask/20001027.html
Note: The underlined in dark green
words prove that the Universe was
originally formed by hot gaseous.
Dear Yahoo!
What exactly is the Big Bang
Theory?
Gigi
Atlanta, Georgia
Dear Gigi:
The Big Bang Theory is
currently the dominant
scientific explanation for the
origin of the universe. It was
first proposed in 1927 by a
Belgian priest named George
Lemaître.
We found a collection of sites
about the Big Bang theory in a
Yahoo! Astrophysics
subcategory called Universal
Origins by searching on "big
bang." This mind-boggling
array of resources proved a
little too scientific, so we tried
to find a simpler place to start.
A fascinating physics study
module called Violence in
the Cosmos provided us with
some Big Bang basics:
Ten to twenty billion years
ago, the universe consisted
of a compact ball of
hydrogen -- protons,
neutrons, electrons, and
their anti-particles -- plus
radiation. There were no
differentiated planets,
stars, suns, galaxies.
Five billion years ago, the
compact hydrogen soup
blasted apart with huge
force, matter was hurled in
all directions, and the
universe doubled in size.
This expansion of the
universe is still going on.
The blast caused a major
decrease in the density and
temperature of the
universe after which no
new particles could be
formed. Then the particle
wars began. Particles and
anti-particles fought it out
in a frenzy of self-
destruction. The universe
was left with a greatly
reduced collection of
positively-charged nuclei
and negatively-charged
electrons in a vast plasma
soup.
Although plasma (ionized
gas) rarely occurs on
Earth's electrically neutral
surface, 99% of the matter
of the Universe still exists
in a plasma state.
The Big Bang produced the
light elements hydrogen
and helium. Heavier
elements are usually
produced in the violent
processes associated with
the death of stars.
Despite later discoveries by
astronomer Edwin Hubble and
Nobel Prize-winning scientists
Arno Penzias and Robert
Wilson that appear to support
Lemaître's theory, the theory
remains controversial and
alternative explanations for the
origin of the universe abound.
The following article was taken
from http://
www.cosmiverse.com/
space122204.html
Big Bang
Theory -
Proof at
Last
December
22, 2000
07:45 CDT
For the first
time, an actual measurement
has been made of the
temperature of the cosmic
microwave background
radiation, at a time when the
Universe was only about 2.5
billion years old. A team of
astronomers from India, France
and ESO achieved this
fundamental and very difficult
observation by obtaining a
detailed spectrum of a quasar
in the distant Universe, using
the UV-Visual Echelle
Spectrograph (UVES)
instrument at the ESO 8.2-m
VLT KUEYEN telescope at the
Paranal Observatory.
Most astrophysicists believe
that the Universe was formed
in what is known as the Big
Bang. If this were true, the
glow of this primeval fireball
should have been warmer in
the past - which is exactly what
they found by the new
measurements.
According to a recent press
release by the European
Southern Observatory: This
analysis of the VLT spectrum of
the distant quasar not only
gives the definitive proof of the
presence of the relict radiation
in the early Universe, it also
shows that it was indeed
significantly warmer than it is
today, as predicted by the
theory.
American physicists Arno A.
Penzias and Robert W. Wilson,
who were rewarded with the
Nobel Prize in 1978,
discovered the primeval
fireball's relict radiation. Their
discovery was made in 1964
by means of radio
observations. Precision
measurements by the COBE
satellite later showed that this
ancient radiation fills the
Universe, with a present-day
temperature of slightly less
than 3 degrees above zero.
This radiation comes from all
directions, yet it is extremely
uniform. Slight temperature
variations in different
directions have been
measured most recently by
means of detailed observations
from a balloon above
Antarctica (the Boomerang
experiment).
Since the universe is
expanding, it must have been
denser in the past. A particular
prediction of the Big Bang
theory is also that the
temperature of the CMBR must
have been higher at earlier
times. However, although quite
a few attempts have been
made, no clear observational
confirmation of this has been
possible so far. In fact, the best
observations until now have
only been able to establish
upper limits to the cosmic
temperature at earlier epochs.
It was actually suggested more
than 30 years ago that
observing specific absorption
lines in the spectra of distant
quasars could test the
predicted increase of
temperature with distance
(redshift).
The idea is simply that at
earlier epochs, the CMBR was
hot enough to excite certain
atomic levels, and thus to give
rise to particular absorption
lines in the spectrum of a
celestial object.
Some faint
absorption
lines of
neutral
carbon
atoms were found to be
especially promising, in the
sense that they were predicted
to be very sensitive to the
surrounding temperature.
However, previous generations
of (smaller) astronomical
telescopes were unable to
achieve spectra of sufficient
quality of these faint
absorption lines in faint and
remote objects in the early
(more distant) Universe.
The advent of 8-m class
telescopes has now changed
this situation. A few years ago,
the 10-m Keck telescope
(Mauna Kea, Hawaii, USA)
obtained a spectrum of a
quasar that was sufficiently
detailed to determine an upper
limit to the temperature of the
CMBR at the corresponding
epoch, about 3.4 billion years
after the Big Bang.
However, a major difficulty of
such observations is the
necessity to exclude other
sources of excitation (heating).
It is well known that some
other physical processes may
also affect the observed
absorption lines, such as
collisions between the atoms
and heating by the ultraviolet
light emitted by young and hot
stars.
The main problem is therefore
to disentangle the various
effects in order to "isolate" that
of the CMBR. This can only be
achieved by means of
exceptionally "clean" and
detailed spectra of these faint
objects, a demanding task. For
that reason all previous
measurements have only led
to upper limits on the CMBR
temperature.
The new VLT spectrum of the
quasar PKS 1232+0815
provides the long hoped-for
break-through in this
important area of cosmological
research.
On its way to us, the light from
this distant object is absorbed
by intervening material,
among other by a gaseous
cloud in a galaxy at high
redshift (z = 2.34). This
distance corresponds to a
cosmic time when the Universe
was less than one fifth of its
present age.
Another detailed analysis
allowed the determination of
the physical conditions in the
cloud - the presence of
molecular hydrogen lines was
crucial for this to succeed. It
clearly showed that the
excitation process of atomic
collisions couldn't be solely
responsible for the shape and
strength of the observed
absorption lines. An additional
source of heat must be present
and this can only be the
heating by the CMBR.
Moreover, it was possible to
place constraints on the effect
of other possible excitation
processes. This made it
possible for the astronomers to
derive the temperature T of the
CMBR at this large distance
and early cosmic epoch and to
place a very firm lower limit on
this temperature. The final
result is that T is hotter than 6
K and cooler than 14 K; this is
in full agreement with the Big
Bang prediction of T = 9 K.
This is thus the first real proof
that the CMBR was indeed
warmer in the past.
Source: Press Release
4-
When the Cosmic Crunch to the
Universe occurs, the Day of Judgment
shall come:
Please also visit: The Miracle of the
Space Fabric - Mentioned in the
Glorious Quran and confirmed by
Science.
Let us look at what Allah Almighty said
about the "Cosmic Crunch" Theory:
ﻳﻮﻡ ﻧﻄﻮﻱ ﺍﻟﺴﻤﺎﺀ ﻛﻄﻲ ﺍﻟﺴﺠﻞ ﻟﻠﻜﺘﺐ
ﻛﻤﺎ ﺑﺪﺃﻧﺎ ﺃﻭﻝ ﺧﻠﻖ ﻧﻌﻴﺪﻩ ﻭﻋﺪﺍ ﻋﻠﻴﻨﺎ ﺇﻧﺎ ﻛﻨﺎ
ﻓﻌﻠﻴﻦ
"The Day that We roll up the
heavens like a scroll rolled up for
books (completed),- even as We
produced the first creation, so shall
We produce a new one: a promise We
have undertaken: truly shall We fulfill
it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
Notice here how Allah Almighty Said
that He will ROLL BACK the heavens
like a scroll rolled up.
NASA's discovery only 8
years ago!
The following link and quote
were sent to me by brother
Usman; may Allah Almighty
always be pleased with him.
"The simplest version of the
inflationary theory, an
extension of the Big Bang
theory, predicts that the
density of the universe is very
close to the critical density,
and that the geometry of
the universe is flat, like a
sheet of paper. That is the
result confirmed by the WMAP
science." (http://
map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/
uni_shape.html
)
They have discovered only 8
years ago; that the Universe is
flat! The best way the NASA
scientists could describe the
Universe is "like a sheet of
paper," which Allah Almighty
has already described 1,400
years ago to a goat herder and
illiterate Bedouin and Shepard,
our beloved and blessed
Prophet Muhammad, Peace,
Mercy and Blessings be upon
him. Ameen.
From: Ozee JR <usmantech@
hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: A New Miracle of
Quran subhanAllah, Not yet
found by anyone - NOT A
Useless email inshAllah Trust
me. - NASA/TIME/BBC
To: quransearchcom@
yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009,
8:31 AM
As'salamu Alaikum dear
brother Osama,
You are the first one I am
telling, besides my brother,
This miracle I have not found
documented anywhere and
Science found this about 8
years ago only !!!!!!!
Confirmed By NASA and the
links I will give you will be
NASA/TIME/BBC
( 21:104) -
The Day that we roll up the
heavens like a scroll rolled up
for books (completed)
1. Allah is comparing the
Universe to a Scroll of Paper,
1400 years ago. And see what
the best scientists in the world
at NASA found out in the 21st
CENTURY !!!! 2001 !!!
"and that the geometry of the
universe is flat, like a sheet of
paper" - NASA
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
universe/uni_shape.html
They have found out only 8
years ago that Universe is flat
and the best way NASA
scentist use to describe to a
layman is like a sheet of
paper , Allah describes the
universe as a scroll 1400 years
ago !!! Who can know
something that scentist were
only able to find out 8 years
ago ?? Arab goat herders ? or
the One who has first hand
knowledge of it ? The Creater
Allah that Abraham , Moses,
Jesus, Mohammed prayed to ?
THIS IS NOT A THEORY
From the same NASA Page:
"That is the result confirmed
by the WMAP science.
Measurements from WMAP
The WMAP spacecraft can
measure the basic parameters
of the Big Bang theory
including the geometry of the
universe. If the universe were
open, the brightest microwave
background fluctuations
(or "spots" would be about
half a degree across. If the
universe were flat, the spots
would be about 1 degree
across. While if the universe
were closed, the brightest
spots would be about 1.5
degrees across.
Recent measurements (c.
2001) by a number of ground-
based and balloon-based
experiments, including MAT/
TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima,
and DASI, have shown that the
brightest spots are about 1
degree across. Thus the
universe was known to be flat
to within about 15% accuracy
prior to the WMAP results.
WMAP has confirmed this
result with very high accuracy
and precision. We now know
that the universe is flat with
only a 2% margin of error."
Also:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/
tech/727073.stm
http://www.time.com/time/
covers/1101010625/story.html
2. Yun Wang1
, Jan Michael Kratochvil
, Andrei Linde2
, and Marina Shmakova3
Department of Physics &
Astronomy,
Univ. of Oklahoma
Have written a detailed
scientific paper on end of
Universe:
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-
ph/0409264
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/
astro-ph/
pdf/0409/0409264v2.pdf
Abstract
In a broad class of dark energy
models, the universe may
collapse within a finite time tc.
Here
we study a representative
model of dark energy with a
linear potential, V (φ) = V0(1 +
αφ). This
model is the simplest
doomsday model, in which the
universe collapses rather
quickly after it stops
expanding. Observational data
from type Ia supernovae (SNe
Ia), cosmic microwave
background
anisotropy (CMB), and large
scale structure (LSS) are
complementary in constraining
dark energy
models. Using the new SN Ia
data (Riess sample), the CMB
data from WMAP, and the LSS
data
from 2dF, we find that the
collapse time of the universe is
tc > ∼ 42 (24) gigayears from
today at 68%
(95%) confidence.
PACS numbers: 98.80.Cq,
11.25.-w, 04.65.+e
Allah likens the end of universe
roll up the heavens like a scroll
rolled up for books ,
a scroll takes a long time to
write (relatively) and once
written it is rolled up very very
quickly (relatively). This is
what
these sceintists have found out
in 2008 !!! I will not go into this
too much as this is too
complicated a topic for me and
should be
taken as something of interest.
also on expansion
Allahsays in the Holy Quran
what means " And it is We
Who have constructed the
heaven with might, and
verily, it is We Who are
steadily expanding it.
(Qur'an, 51:47)
And also Allah uses the word
we have constructed the
heaven with might, as we all
know scientifically no citation
required that heaven was
created with incredible energy
and force, an imposter god/
holy book would have used the
words we constructed the
heavens with ease, no problem
for any god, easy job, i dont
need might I am God. But Allah
describes that massive energy
was required for the creation of
the Earth.
I think I am going to revisit
each and ever miracle and
reanalyze them
Please reply if you find this
useful and any comments
where I might have gone
wrong or misunderstood
something.
Allah Hafiz
Usman
The following article http://
www.bigear.org/vol1no4/wheeler.htm
, which contains an interview with a
Scientist, Professor John Archibald
Wheeler, who was a colleague of
Albert Einstein, explains the Noble
Verse above in good details.
Important Note: Before we go into
the article, it is important to know that
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon
him had also talked about the "Cosmic
Crunch" Theory by predicting that the
Sun around the time of the Cosmic
Crunch's occurrence would rise from
the West and set in the East due to a
change in our orbit's rotation. Who
knows, perhaps the "Cosmic Crunch"
would cause the Earth to flip upside
down, which would cause the sun to
rise from the West and set in the East,
or perhaps it would change the
rotation of the sun and its planets all
together:
Narrated Abu Dhar: "The Prophet
asked me at sunset, 'Do you know
where the sun goes (at the time of
sunset)?' I replied, 'Allah and His
Apostle know better.' He said, 'It goes
(i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself
underneath the Throne and takes the
permission to rise again, and it is
permitted and then (a time will come
when) it will be about to prostrate
itself but its prostration will not be
accepted, and it will ask permission to
go on its course but it will not be
permitted, but it will be ordered to
return whence it has come and so
it will rise in the west. And that is
the interpretation of the Statement of
Allah: 'And the sun Runs its fixed
course For a term (decreed). that is
The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in
Might, The All-Knowing.' (36.38)
(Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Beginning of Creation, Volume 4, Book
54, Number 421) "
Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle
said, 'The Hour will not be
established........ and till the sun
rises from the West. So when the
sun will rise and the people will
see it (rising from the West) they
will all believe (embrace Islam)
but that will be the time when:
(As Allah said,) 'No good will it do
to a soul to believe then, if it
believed not before, nor earned
good (by deeds of righteousness)
through its Faith.' (6.158) And the
Hour will be established while two
men spreading a garment in front of
them but they will not be able to sell
it, nor fold it up; and the Hour will be
established when a man has milked
his she-camel and has taken away the
milk but he will not be able to drink it;
and the Hour will be established
before a man repairing a tank (for his
livestock) is able to water (his
animals) in it; and the Hour will be
established when a person has raised
a morsel (of food) to his mouth but will
not be able to eat it.' (Translation of
Sahih Bukhari, Afflictions and the End
of the World, Volume 9, Book 88,
Number 237) "
"The Day ye shall see it, every mother
giving suck shall forget her suckling-
babe, and every pregnant female shall
drop her load (unformed): thou shalt
see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet
not drunk: but dreadful will be the
Wrath of God. (The Noble Quran,
22:2)"
Is it possible for the sun to rise
from the West and for the moon to
be swallowed by the sun relatively
quickly?
See what Western Scientists say
about this.
Continuing with the article......
Cosmic Search Vol. 1 No. 4
FORUM: John A. Wheeler
From the Big Bang to the Big
Crunch
Scientist-philosopher, teacher-
cosmologist, father of the Black Hole,
Wheeler's thoughts encompass the
entire cosmos from the Big Bang to
the Big Crunch.
This exclusive interview with John A.
Wheeler was made by Mirjana R.
Gearhart of COSMIC SEARCH.
COSMIC SEARCH: You have often
commented that the greatest
discoveries of science are yet to come.
What do you have in mind?
Wheeler: To me, the greatest
discovery yet to come will be to find
how this universe, coming into being
from a Big Bang, developed its laws of
operation. I call this "Law without Law"
[Or "Order from Disorder"].
COSMIC SEARCH: Could you explain
further?
Wheeler: One of the biggest
problems is how to state the problem.
It's an old saying that the minute you
can state a problem correctly you
understand 90 percent of the problem.
One of the greatest problems concerns
the meaning of measurement or
observation. According to quantum
theory, measurements can influence
what happens. The fact that it is
difficult to talk about this problem in
an easy way suggests that we have
much to learn.
This is a partial response to your
question. Putting it another way:
How can we possibly imagine the
universe with all its regularities and its
laws coming into being out of
something utterly helter-skelter,
higgledy-piggledy and random?
Or, in still another form:
If you were the Lord constructing the
universe, how would you have gone
about it?
COSMIC SEARCH: That certainly is a
very deep question.
Wheeler: It's inspiring to read the life
of Charles Darwin and think how the
division of plant and animal kingdoms,
all this myriad of order, came about
through the miracles of evolution,
natural selection and chance
mutation. To me this is a marvelous
indication that you can get order by
starting with disorder.
COSMIC SEARCH: Do you think there
can be any progress on this problem?
Wheeler: One of the conditions, I
think, for advance in this field, as in
any field, is believing that advance is
possible. What I hope I'm creating is a
sense of faith that it can be done. Faith
is the number one element. It isn't
something that spreads itself
uniformly. Faith is concentrated in a
few people at particular times and
places. If you can involve young
people in an atmosphere of hope and
faith, then I think they'll figure out how
to get the answer. Faith and hope are
absolutely central to everything one
does.
You need people who have
imagination, daring and the ability to
get somewhere. That, to me, is the
way research works.
Of course another point to all of this is
to keep in touch with key ideas, with
what people are doing. Make sure you
aren't overlooking something. Here's
where it's so important to talk with the
young people. Some modest young
person comes along with some idea no
one else is paying any attention to. His
idea may just be the central point.
I'm very fortunate that at Austin, the
University of Texas has been willing to
finance this kind of work, bringing in
two or three people each year for a
period of time. So, we'll see what
happens.
COSMIC SEARCH: You were a
colleague of Albert Einstein. We are
celebrating the 100th anniversary of
his birth this year. When did you first
meet him?
Wheeler: October 1933, the month
he took up permanent residence in the
U.S. was my first meeting with
Einstein. Then in 1953, when I first
started to teach relativity at Princeton,
he was kind enough to invite me to
bring my students around to his house
for discussions. So, we sat around the
dining room table and his secretary,
Helen Dukas, and his stepdaughter,
Margot, brought tea and the students
asked him questions.
COSMIC SEARCH: Are there some
tenets of his that stand out in your
mind?
Wheeler: Yes, his work revolved
around three rules which apply to all
science, our problems, and times:
1. Out of clutter, find simplicity;
2. From discord make harmony;
and finally
3. In the middle of difficulty lies
opportunity.
COSMIC SEARCH: You began your
work in relativity about that time
then?
Albert Einstein, Hidekei Yukawa
and John A. Wheeler at Princeton
in 1954. Yukawa received the
Nobel prize in physics in 1949.
Wheeler: Yes, it was about the period
1952-53-54-55, Einstein's last four
years, when l was just getting into
relativity. The thing that really got me
into it more than anything else was
this concern about what happens to a
cloud of matter when it collapses.
What's the final state?
I had not yet invented the term "black
hole". I hadn't yet realized how
important it was to attach a name to
this concept.
COSMIC SEARCH: How did you come
up with the name "black hole"?
Wheeler: It was an act of desperation,
to force people to believe in it. It was
in 1968, at the time of the discussion
of whether pulsars were related to
neutron stars or to these completely
collapsed objects. I wanted a way of
emphasizing that these objects were
real. Thus, the name "black hole".
Diagrammatic representation of a
black hole suggesting how space
is curved or warped by its
enormous gravitational pull. All
details of infalling material are
wiped out in the black hole, only
the net mass, charge and angular
momentum remaining. A black
hole is the ultimate trash
compactor.
The Russians used the term frozen star
-- their point of attention was how it
looked from the outside, where the
material moves much more slowly
until it comes to a horizon. [Or critical
distance. From inside this distance
there is no escape.] But, from the
point of view of someone who's on the
material itself, falling in, there's
nothing special about the horizon. He
keeps on going in. There's nothing
frozen about what happens to him. So,
I felt that that aspect of it needed
more emphasis.
COSMIC SEARCH: A few years ago
you asked the question: "Are life and
mind irrelevant to the structure of the
universe, or are they central to it?"
Have you found an answer?
Wheeler: No, I'm one of the most
baffled men in the world on this
subject. There is a line of investigation
involving the anthropic (or man-
related) principle -- the idea that the
universe has to be much as it is or life
would be impossible. Not only life as
we know it, but any life at all would be
impossible. On what else can a
comprehensible universe be built but
the demand for comprehensibility?
My Princeton colleague, Robert Dicke,
expressed it this way:
What good is a universe without
somebody around to look at it?
That, to be sure, was an old idea,
going back not only to the Bishop
Berkeley of the time of Newton, but all
the way back to Parmenides, the
precursor of Socrates and Plato.
But it was new in the form that Dicke
put it. He said if you want an observer
around, you need life, and if you want
life, you need heavy elements. To
make heavy elements out of
hydrogen, you need thermonuclear
combustion. To have thermonuclear
combustion, you need a time of
cooking in a star of several billion
years. In order to stretch out several
billion years in its time dimension, the
universe, according to general
relativity, must be several billion years
across in its space dimensions.
So why is the universe as big as it is?
Because we're here!
COSMIC SEARCH: A very interesting
view.
Wheeler: You could put it another
way: You can say there's an efficiency
expert who's come to look over the
Lord's shoulder. He says,
"Why, Lord, you're wasting a lot of
money on this universe. See, you've
put one hundred billion (10^11) stars
in the Milky Way, and you've put one
hundred billion (10^11) Milky Ways in
the universe -- that's ten billion trillion
(10^11) stars -- that's a mighty
extravagant way to get one planet (the
Earth) with life on it so there'll be
somebody around to be aware of this
universe. Now, Lord, we efficiency
people want to cut you down, but we
won't cut you down to one star.
Instead of 10 billion trillion stars, we'll
cut you down to one hundred billion
stars -- that's enough to make one
galaxy. This will be a great economy
move."
"The universe starts with a Big
Bang, expands to a maximum
dimension, then recontracts and
collapses (to the Big Crunch); no
more awe-inspiring prediction
was ever made." Quotation from
Charles W. Misner, Kip S. Thorne
and John A. Wheeler in
"Gravitation", W. H. Freeman, San
Francisco, 1973, page 1196.
From me, Osama Abdallah: Please
visit Allah Almighty said in the
Noble Quran that He is
"Expanding" the Universe.
continuing with the article....
The only problem is, according to
general relativity, when you cut the
amount of mass down by a factor of
100 billion, you also cut the size of the
universe down by the same amount,
just enough universe for one galaxy.
You also cut down the time from the
Big Bang to the Big Crunch from 100
billion years to just one year which
isn't time enough to evolve even one
star, let alone evolve life.
Put it another way. There's no obvious
extravagance of scale in the
construction of the universe. The
efficiency expert would have a right to
complain if life had been created on
several planets, in several parts of the
universe, because then he could say
that's more than you really need in
order for somebody to be around to be
aware of the universe. But, if you have
life on one planet only (the Earth),
then, it's not obvious that you're being
extravagant.
The anthropic principle provides a new
perspective on the question of life
elsewhere in space. It puts in question
the common view that the universe is
a big machine; that man is
unimportant in the scheme of things;
that we're an accidental bit of dust
that doesn't have anything to do with
it all. From that point of view, it is not
very important whether you're going
to have life on a billion planets or on
just one planet -- or no life at all. Life
or no life still wouldn't matter in the
scheme of the universe.
But, if we adopt this other perspective
that Dicke suggests -- the anthropic
principle -- then it's quite a different
assessment that we make. Then the
universe has to be such as to permit
awareness of that universe; otherwise
the universe has no meaning.
We are now nearer the Big Bang than
the Big Crunch since the universe, as
we observe it, is still expanding.
The anthropic principle looks at this
universe, that universe and the other
universe and rules out as mere
meaningless machines all those in
which awareness does not develop
somewhere at some time. Stronger
than the anthropic principle is what I
might call the participatory principle.
According to it we could not even
imagine a universe that did not
somewhere and for some stretch of
time contain observers because the
very building materials of the universe
are these acts of observer-
participancy. You wouldn't have the
stuff out of which to build the universe
otherwise. This participatory principle
takes for its foundation the absolutely
central point of the quantum:
No elementary phenomenon is a
phenomenon until it is an observed (or
registered) phenomenon.
COSMIC SEARCH: You also
collaborated with Niels Bohr. Could
you tell us about him?
Wheeler: As a student in 1934, 1
applied for a fellowship to go to
Copenhagen to study with Bohr. I
remember writing down my reason on
the application:
"Bohr sees further ahead in physics
than any other man alive".
My fellowship was granted and the
next year I went to study with Bohr,
the great leader of physics and father
figure of all physicists. There in
Copenhagen, Christian Moller, just
back from Rome, reported Fermi's
results on the capture of slow
neutrons. Bohr immediately became
terribly concerned, and interrupting
Moller, talked and talked while
walking back and forth. All the while
you could see the liquid drop model of
the nucleus taking shape right there
before your eyes. For him no physics
was of any interest unless it yielded
some paradox or some beautiful way
of seeing things simply.
I do not remember anyone at Bohr's
institute who ever succeeded in
finishing a seminar talk, even though
he was the invited speaker. He might
be able to speak fifteen minutes, but
soon Bohr would take over and would
use the whole time discussing the
meaning of the speaker's results and
what they proved or disproved.
COSMIC SEARCH: You were also
involved with Bohr later, weren't you?
Wheeler: Yes, I was down at the pier
in New York on January 16,1939, to
meet him, and I had hardly said
"Hello" when I learned that just before
his ship left Copenhagen, he had been
told of the discovery of nuclear fission
by Hahn and Strassmann. So we
dropped everything else and started
to work on fission.
During the war I met Bohr in
Washington at the time he was
dividing his time between Los Alamos
and Washington. He told me
confidentially about his discussions
with President Roosevelt about the
future of nuclear energy. He told me
about his efforts to work out some
kind of control of nuclear energy after
the war.
Bohr made a great impression on
Roosevelt and they had several
discussions. The last speech Roosevelt
wrote -- he died while he was still
working on it -- had in it some words,
quoted by Roosevelt from Thomas
Jefferson, about how scientists serve
as indispensable means of
communication for bringing peace
between different countries of the
world.
It was enormously impressive to me to
see Bohr's courage in facing up to
what the great questions were. I can
vividly remember him saying to me:
"I must always seem to you like an
amateur. But I am always an
amateur."
Of course, that is a very modest way of
saying that one is a pioneer, an
explorer. If you are working on
something new, then you are
necessarily an amateur.
COSMIC SEARCH: Niels Bohr created
one of the world's most influential
schools of modem physics in
Copenhagen. You, too, have educated
many leading physicists, both in
nuclear physics and in general
relativity, at Princeton. Do you have
some thoughts about educating
students?
Wheeler: Shouldn't you rephrase
your question? After all, I'm sure that
it is really the students who educate
me! We all know that the real reason
universities have students is to
educate the professors. But, in order
to be educated by the students, one
has to put good questions to them.
You try out your questions on the
students. If there are questions that
the students get interested in, then
they start to tell you new things and
keep you asking more new questions.
Pretty soon you have learned a great
deal.
COSMIC SEARCH: What insights can
one gain from the collapse of a star
into a black hole as regards the
ultimate collapse of the universe?
Wheeler: I would regard the black
hole as a here-and-now model for the
collapse of the universe. We've come
to recognize that in the typical closed
model universe, a black hole that
forms at some point in the history of
the universe is not a singularity -- a
Gate of Time -- separate and distinct
from the Big Crunch, but is part and
parcel of the same thing.
"Think of yourself in an ice cave
with time pointing upward from
the floor (the Big Bang). The roof
represents the Big Crunch and
the icicles represent black holes.
The water level represents the
time where we are now,
beginning to engulf a few icicles.
That's when black holes are
formed."
Let me put it this way. If you'll permit,
let's imagine ourselves as in an ice
cave, and let's think of time as
pointing upward from the floor. The
floor of ice represents the Big Bang.
The roof of ice represents the Big
Crunch -- and some spikes hanging
down, icicles, represent black holes.
Think of water gradually filling the
cave as it comes up, representing the
advance of time. No water, and you're
back at the Big Bang; a little water,
and you're in the early days of the
universe. More water and your time
level is where we are now. As the
water rises -- as time goes on -- it
engulfs a few of the spikes, the icicles
-- that's the moment when black holes
are formed. Keep the water level going
on up and you get to the point where
the spikes are completely immersed
and the water even reaches to the top
of the cave. Then you have arrived at
the Big Crunch. From this point of
view, you can see that the Big Crunch
or final Gate of Time is not distinct in
nature from the black hole. They're
the same kind of animal. In that sense,
learning about a black hole is learning
about the final stages of the universe.
Although many articles are being
written about the outsides of black
holes, hardly any deal with the
question of what happens inside the
black hole, on the way to the Big
Crunch. All the indications I can see
point to it being the direct opposite of
what happens on the outside. The
outside settles down to a steady
standard condition. If it's perturbed a
little bit away from that ideal state, it
once again reverts to the steady
condition.
But, on the inside, the condition is the
exact opposite, in the sense that if the
collapse of matter is not exactly
symmetric, then the perturbations
from the infalling matter will get worse
and worse, and bigger and bigger.
There will be so-called "mixmaster"
oscillations. Matter -- and space
geometry as well -- will be driven into
a gigantic chaos. If, as we believe, the
black hole is really part and parcel of
the final singularity, then these
"mixmaster" oscillations should be a
common property of black holes and
the big crunch. We have much to learn
from studying this chaos from the
theoretical end. That doesn't mean
these extreme conditions have no
observational consequences; they
certainly do.
One might question this point. One
might ask, what sense is it to talk
about the physics inside a black hole?
Who's ever going to fall inside a black
hole? But, here we are living inside -- if
Einstein is correct -- a closed universe,
and we will eventually head into a Big
Crunch ourselves -- so the laugh's on
us!
COSMIC SEARCH: If that is true --
that the last laugh is on us, how does
that affect mankind's attitude?
Wheeler: If the universe is only going
to last for a finite time, I think it's far
too early in the scheme of things to try
to draw conclusions about how we
should react. We're still so much in the
learning phase. We have to keep
separate what we're learning from our
attitudes.
To me to live a one-life-only in a one-
life-only universe provides a poetic
parallelism. How precious life is! Every
day, every person one meets, every
experience -- that's all we're going to
have. It distresses me that so many
people go through life in an alienated
spirit, not realizing that this is the only
opportunity they have -- they'll never
have it again.
COSMIC SEARCH: We certainly are at
a very important time in mankind's
thinking about its place in the
universe. Thank you, Professor
Wheeler, for sharing with us a glimpse
of these great discoveries yet to come.
John Archibald Wheeler
has been at the forefront of
theoretical physics for nearly
five decades. In the 1930's,
with Niels Bohr, he developed
the first general theory of nuclear
fission.
According to the "liquid drop"
model of Bohr and Wheeler
(1939), a slow neutron entering a
uranium 235 nucleus causes it to
split like a drop of liquid into two
smaller drops representing the
nuclei of a tellurium 137 atom and
a zirconium 97 atom while
emitting two neutrons. Energy
released by this type of reaction
forms the basis of nuclear fission
power.
In the 1940's, with a student, Richard
Feynman, he discovered a new
approach to electrodynamics which
has proven to be of great value. In the
1950's he found new solutions to
Einstein's gravitational equations of
importance in astrophysics. In the
1960s he pioneered studies involving
gravitational collapse, neutron stars
and Black Holes (a name he invented).
More recently Wheeler has proposed
and analyzed "delayed choice"
experiments. In them a difference in
what one measures on the particle --
or photon -- now makes an
irretrievable difference in what one
has the right to say the particle
already did in the past. This effect,
which makes it impossible to monitor
the events of nature with complete
detachment, he calls "observer-
participancy".
Wheeler is a scientist-philosopher
whose thoughts encompass the entire
cosmos from its smallest
microstructure to its astronomical
maximum, while spanning its past and
future between the two "Gates of
Time": the "Big Bang" beginning and
the "Big Crunch" ending. The Gates of
Time is also a term he coined.
Wheeler's dynamic career gives
special meaning to the statement that
scientists are even more interesting
than science.
Wheeler is Director of the Center for
Theoretical Physics at the University of
Texas, Austin. Before going to Austin
in 1976, he was the Joseph Henry
Professor of Physics at Princeton
University, where he had been a
faculty member for 38 years.
Born in Florida in 1911, he received
his doctorate from Johns Hopkins
University in 1933. In 1938 he joined
the physics faculty of Princeton
University where he served until his
move to Austin in 1976. Wheeler is
past president of the American
Physical Society, recipient of the
Albert Einstein Prize of the Strauss
Foundation (1965), the Enrico Fermi
Award for his work on nuclear fission
(presented by President Lyndon
Johnson in 1968), the Franklin Medal
of the Franklin Institute (1969), and
the National Medal of Science (1971),
as well as numerous honorary
degrees.
He is the author of many scientific
articles and author or co-author of six
books. His famous, monumental 1280-
page text "Gravitation" (1973) was
written in collaboration with his former
students Kip Thorne and Charles
Misner; his most recent, "Frontiers of
Time", appeared in 1979.
A man of great modesty, Wheeler
radiates a contagious enthusiasm
coupled with a charming informality.
He has a fondness for paradox as
epitomized by: "We will first
understand how simple the universe is
when we recognize how strange it is".
Wheeler on Science
"The greatest discoveries are yet to
come."
"What good is a universe without
somebody around to look at it?"
"There's no obvious extravagance of
scale in the construction of the
universe."
"If you're working on something
new, then you are necessarily an
amateur."
"So, why is the universe as big as it
is? Because we're here!"
Learning about a black hole is
learning about the final stages of
the universe."
"You have to keep separate what
we're learning from our attitudes"
"We will first understand how
simple the universe is when we
recognize how strange it is."
"The real reason universities have
students is to educate the
professors."
"You need people who have the
imagination, daring and ability to
get somewhere. That is the way
research works. "
"No elementary phenomenon is a
phenomenon until it is an observed
phenomenon. "
www.answering-christianity.com/hot_gas.htm - 79k

The saga continues.
Christians stop weeping.
Muslims have accepted the OP's decision.
Move on. Rejection is not the end of YOUR KINGDOM OF GOD!
Love is not by force. Haba!!!!

Callotti: The saga continues.
Christians stop weeping.
Muslims have accepted the OP's decision.
Move on. Rejection is not the end of YOUR KINGDOM OF GOD!
Love is not by force. Haba!!!!

Me sef tire... no b dem dem reject na..

mazaje: I got this reasons from some where, I added a little to it and it completely sums up why I do not believe in God and religion. Here are the reasons. . .


[b]*[/b]There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that any God exists.

[b]*[/b]God cannot explain all that exists because God itself cannot be explained. This claim just gratuitously swaps one mystery for another.

[b]*[/b]Religions do not explain any mechanism or process whereby God created everything. It is effectively an appeal to magic.

[b]*[/b]Religious faith is generally indistinguishable from gullibility. Trust and faith, as human concepts, are normally based on experience and reason. Religious faith is necessarily based on belief in unproved and unknowable things.

[b]*[/b]A god or anything that exists outside the realm of natural reality is necessarily unknowable, unintelligible and incoherent. It is therefore irrational to believe in something that is supernatural.

[b]*[/b]Religious scripture:
[b]*[/b]is man-made
[b]*[/b]contains many translation, historical and scientific and interpretation errors
[b]*[/b]is often self-contradictory
[b]*[/b]often contradicts known facts
[b]*[/b]promotes conversion by violence
[b]*[/b]calls for punishment and death to unbelievers
[b]*[/b]contains virtually no specific and unequivocal predictions
[b]*[/b]contains only vague predictions beyond its own time
[b]*[/b]contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of God
[b]*[/b]Scripture contains too much that is vague, metaphorical and symbolic to be instructions from a divine being to humans. A perfect being would be expected to be able to communicate much better than that.

[b]*[/b]In order to render most of scripture useful, it must necessarily be interpreted. This makes it easily twisted to support nefarious purposes.

[b]*[/b]The problems with scriptures outweigh any good messages they may contain. If read at all, they should be considered opinion and philosophy and taken with a grain of salt.

[b]*[/b]Morals are based on human sympathy and empathy not on divine guidance. it varies from culture to culture and is always evolving. Establishing moral codes based on theism is unnecessary, riddled with contradictions, and fraught with danger.

[b]*[/b]Religion is divisive in that it pits groups of otherwise indistinguishable people against one another. There are already more than enough differences for humans to fight over. And religion is the most intransigent of such divisions because many people feel it is a divine duty to revile those who believe differently than they do even if they don't see the reason in it.

[b]*[/b]Religions are generally intractable when it comes to substantive compromise with other religions or belief systems.

[b]*[/b]All suggested ways to perceive God rely on internal mechanisms that are subject to personal desires, suggestion, and mistakes. On the question of communicating with God, religion insidiously asks us all to deceive ourselves.

[b]*[/b]People are animals. We are only special due to our more developed brain. (We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees)

[b]*[/b]Every culture that has existed has had God myths and other superstitions. This is often used as an argument for the existence of God. Rather than indicating that there is a true God, this indicates that people are simply attracted to the idea.


[b]*[/b]Goodness, truth, wisdom and all other purported attributes of God are human concepts. When applied to a presumed entity so completely different in kind as to be supernatural, they are meaningless. The idea of God is thus incoherent.

[b]*[/b]Infinity is a concept humans cannot comprehend except in a limited mathematical sense. If God is infinite, this also renders him unintelligible.

*[/b]Belief in an afterlife is insidious, besides there is no evidence to show the human consciousness survives bodily death.

[b]*[/b]Organized religion wastes untold amounts of money and resources that could be used to care for people, promote real knowledge, and advance the human race.

[b]*[/b]Theism puts God above people thereby making people subservient, unimportant and expendable.

[b]*[/b]Religion relies on guilt, fear and outlandish promises to gain obedience.

[b]*[/b]Theism generally precludes any possibility of testing God or questioning his existence substantively. It is something like the wizard of Oz saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[b]*[/b]The methods used in proselytizing for religion bear an unmistakable resemblance to the methods of con men. But the scriptures consider this the great commission of mankind.

[b]*There are many good rational and logical arguments against theism but not one argument in favor of it that doesn't rely on a fallacy or assumption.

[b]*[/b]There are so many Gods put forth by thousands of religions that no one could ever be certain of picking the correct one, assuming that one exists.


[b]*[/b]Prayer is totally subjective and cannot be shown to have any more efficacy than pure chance.

[b]*[/b]There is no discernable difference between believing in God and having an imaginary friend.

[b]*[/b]People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavor except religion.

[b]*[/b]Unequivocal miracles do not occur.

[b]*[/b]God supposedly speaks directly to the human spirit. This must be, at least partly, the same concept as mind. People who receive messages in their minds are invariably delusional.

[b]*[/b]There is no positive correlation between belief in God and being a moral person.

[b]*[/b]Belief in religion has spawned uncounted cults that draw people in by appealing to the concept of faith without proof and the promise of prophets to come. Some examples are: Jim Jones and the People's Temple, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, Marshal Applewhite and Heaven's Gate. These groups had religious followers who were convinced to brutalize, mutilate and kill themselves and their children on the basis of this kind of blind faith.

[b]*[/b]Religion has an extremely violent history that includes such things as crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, genocide, terrorism and holy war. Untold millions have died in the name of religious icons and for religious beliefs.

[b]*[/b]Religions have a long history of misogyny.Religion is just like racism because it segregates people

[b]*[/b]Religious dogma is practically immune to the incorporation of new facts. The best it can do is strained reinterpretation.

[b]*[/b]The argument that God cannot be proven not to exist is irrelevant when one considers that to do so requires that the concept of a supernatural God be intelligible and coherent, which it is not.

[b]*[/b]There is a well known argument commonly called "The Problem of Evil". It basically says that if an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God exists, unnecessary or gratuitous evil would not exist in the world. Thus if God sees this type of evil and does nothing he is either not omnibenevolent because he doesn't care or not omnipotent because he is unable to stop it. There are many counter-arguments that have been used. However the only one that really could defeat the Problem of Evil is if one says that we cannot apply human standards to decide what is or is not gratuitous evil. This may well be true, but that argument renders God unintelligible and meaningless to humans. Either way, the concept of God seems to be highly doubtful.

[b]*[/b]Theists claim that God has given humans free will. However, this free will is anything but free. The choices are forced on pain of death and eternal suffering. It is equivalent to having a slave and saying something like: "I grant you your freedom to leave at any time. But if you do, I will torture you mercilessly and kill you as slowly as possible."

All Gods/gods are invented by humans. God does not exist!

dasparrow: @Avicenna

I am not here to argue with you over what you have chosen to do. All I can tell you is that Jesus Christ is coming soon. This has nothing to do with man made religion. This is fact. This is the wrong time to give up on Christ Jesus and God the Almighty Father because we are living in the last days. Seek Him (Jesus) and you will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). I can personally tell you that if it is not for God Almighty and His son Jesus Christ the Messiah and the Holy Spirit, I don't know where I will be today. I have been through so much trials and tribulations but Jesus Christ never forsook me.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one cometh to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). We go through so many life challenges but at the end Jesus Christ grants us the victory. I implore you to seek Jesus the Good Shepherd. He is at the door of your heart knocking and asking to come in. Tomorrow might be too late. Do not believe the lies of the evil one satan telling you that you are free. You may think you are free but you are not. The enemy has come to kill, steal and destroy but Jesus Christ came to give us life, eternal life (John 10:10). Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). Repent now and give your life to Christ Jesus please because tomorrow might be too late. You are in my prayers.

Stop the fraud! How many people will you sell the dummy of Jesus Christ is coming very soon to? Will he ever come? It has always been very soon for a thousand years now. When the whole of Africa was jungle, when Europe was primitive and when America was yet to be discovered, it has always been Jesus Christ is coming soon.

Doubting that God exists
Apart from seeing yourself see this too
http://youtube.com/scoantv

By the time you finish watching one or two videos there,
You will conclude one of these two things

Either God exists or Devil exists, each of which confirms the other.

Many of you have powerful handsets, cars, music gadgets etc. despite the cost and sophiscation of those equipment, would they function on their own? The way you are the one controlling those equipment the way Almighty God controlling your life. Don't be deceived God is in existence. That you questioned His existence is even one of the signs of his existent.