^
Don't mind them. Yeye bois. They are making their money duh. We are here spreading the gospel,lolz

i think these 2 verses may be implying that tongues is one of many languages on earth

1 corinthians 14

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

Goshen360: ^
Don't mind them. Yeye bois. They are making their money duh. We are here spreading the gospel,lolz

True True. The gospel is eternal wealth. their wealth can be eaten by moth

^
Let Enigma come and ijawkid come and let's do it verse by verse. Okay, I just saw you pulled up the whole chapter.

verse 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

ahhh i think Goshen and Jo may be right after all. that verse sounds like the person uttering the tongue does not even know what he is uttering and must pray that he understands what he utters.

Goshen360: ^
Let Enigma come and ijawkid come and let's do it verse by verse. Okay, I just saw you pulled up the whole chapter.

no doubt. no doubt. ill be here. i am waiting on that denver nuggets and lakers game. my boy andre miller about to break some ankles tonight

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. KJV

Okay. Here Pauls admonished us to follow Charity AND desire spiritual gifts BUT rather that we may prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

Eagerly pursue and seek to acquire [this] love [make it your aim, your great quest]; and earnestly desire and cultivate the spiritual endowments (gifts), especially that you may prophesy (interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching).

What do you understand by this verse one?

buzugee: no doubt. no doubt. ill be here. i am waiting on that denver nuggets and lakers game. my boy andre miller about to break some ankles tonight

Do we wait for both Enigma and ijawkid to join us along OR we go ahead and trash it out together?

Goshen360: 1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. KJV

Okay. Here Pauls admonished us to follow Charity AND desire spiritual gifts BUT rather that we may prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

Eagerly pursue and seek to acquire [this] love [make it your aim, your great quest]; and earnestly desire and cultivate the spiritual endowments (gifts), especially that you may prophesy (interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching).

What do you understand by this verse one?

verse one means follow after things that will help others as opposed to yourself ( charity, that is ) and prophesying is a charitable thing because you are helping to save others. its a selfless charitable act. so chapter one is an emphasis on being selfless. seek spiritual gifts and not carnal gifts. spiritual gifts are selfless. so basically seek to enrich your spirit and to be charitable to others by sharing with them your spiritual gifts.
thats what i got from it.

Goshen360:

Do we wait for both Enigma and ijawkid to join us along OR we go ahead and trash it out together?

the more the merrier. no rush here.

Well, I will not stay too long cos it's 8:20pm here and I will get up from the computer by 9pm. Okay.

This verse 1 of 1 Cor. 14 gives us basically 2 things.

1. Charity which means Love. Love is NOT a gift of the Spirit but FRUIT of the Spirit.

2. Spiritual Gifts which is same as spiritual endowment. Among this spiritual gifts is Prophesy. The rest are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 namely:

Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 1 Cor. 12:1

* word of wisdom through the Spirit,

* word of knowledge through the same Spirit

* to another faith by the same Spirit,

* to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

* to another the working of miracles,

* to another prophecy,

* to another discerning of spirits,

* to another [different] kinds of tongues,

* to another the interpretation of tongues.

So when Paul was saying follow after Charity (Love) AND desire the spiritual gifts but in desiring these spiritual gifts LET YOUR PRIORITY BE PROPHESY among these spiritual gifts. Can you blend what I just said with what you said. If there is any difference we resolve it before we continue.

Goshen360: Well, I will not stay too long cos it's 8:20pm here and I will get up from the computer by 9pm. Okay.

This verse 1 of 1 Cor. 14 gives us basically 2 things.

1. Charity which means Love. Love is NOT a gift of the Spirit but FRUIT of the Spirit.

2. Spiritual Gifts which is same as spiritual endowment. Among this spiritual gifts is Prophesy. The rest are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 namely:

Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 1 Cor. 12:1

* word of wisdom through the Spirit,

* word of knowledge through the same Spirit

* to another faith by the same Spirit,

* to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

* to another the working of miracles,

* to another prophecy,

* to another discerning of spirits,

* to another [different] kinds of tongues,

* to another the interpretation of tongues.

So when Paul was saying follow after Charity (Love) AND desire the spiritual gifts but in desiring these spiritual gifts LET YOUR PRIORITY BE PROPHESY among these spiritual gifts. Can you blend what I just said with what you said. If there is any difference we resolve it before we continue.

yup i can definitely blend it smoothly. lets proceed if you will

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV


21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him, however it may be that in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning, because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding].


Common English Bible (CEB)
14 Pursue love, and use your ambition to try to get spiritual gifts but especially so that you might prophesy. 2 This is because those who speak in a tongue don’t speak to people but to God; no one understands it—they speak mysteries by the Spirit.

Now in verse 2 taken from different translations, Paul INTRODUCED ANOTHER OF THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL GIFTS. And here Paul introduced "gift of tongues" from the 1 Cor 12:8-10 which I showed you above. In 1 Cor. 12:10, it is called "kinds of tongues"

Now the things we need to clear as Enigma argued before is, wheather "unknown" is put in bracket or not. Let's look at this first. I mean weather UNKNOWN is placed in bracket such as (UNKNOWN). In the Amplified version, UNKNOWN is placed in bracket, as seen above. I will respond if I can still respond brother.

Goshen360: 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV


21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him, however it may be that in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning, because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding].


Common English Bible (CEB)
14 Pursue love, and use your ambition to try to get spiritual gifts but especially so that you might prophesy. 2 This is because those who speak in a tongue don’t speak to people but to God; no one understands it—they speak mysteries by the Spirit.

Now in verse 2 taken from different translations, Paul INTRODUCED ANOTHER OF THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL GIFTS. And here Paul introduced "gift of tongues" from the 1 Cor 12:8-10 which I showed you above. In 1 Cor. 12:10, it is called "kinds of tongues"

Now the things we need to clear as Enigma argued before is, wheather "unknown" is put in bracket or not. Let's look at this first. I mean weather UNKNOWN is placed in bracket such as (UNKNOWN). I will respond if I can still respond brother.

what i get from this is that if you speak an alien language, man cannot understand you, only God can, because he is the originator of all languages. as simple as that.

^
I know you understand this verse also perfectly. But we need to establish one thing here. Tongues is the same thing as language right. We need to determine if it is just "tongues" OR "UKNOWN TONGUES" from the translations. We can as well call it "language" OR UNKNOWN LANGUAGE" Let us establish this first.

So todays christianity has decided to discard 1 aspect of speaking in tongues(speaking in known earthly tongues) and chose to keep praying in unknown tongues?

Is that not so?

Because that is what you goshen is saying..

My point is even on d fact that it has ceased....

I would have loved to see d apostles speak in the real tongues back then in d 1st century,but not todays type...

1 corinthians 13 never told us that it would cease partially,it said all will cease...

Wether u want to classify them or not those abilities aren't needed anymore...theyr
Gone..

You Àgreed that mayb the main aspect of it has been done away with(d preaching with various tongues),but u still cling to d fact that praying in unknown tongues has not ceased...
That's not biblical.....paul said every every will cease...


The early patriachs of old didn't need to speak Ór pray in tongues...

Even Jesus who had d holy §pirit swimming in his system never needed to,I mentioned that earlier.....

Wa§ it that those servants of God were less spiritual or had less holy spirit because they never prayed in unknown tongues

People have always prayed to God with there native tongue...

Why the introduction of speakin in tongues??


The ability or d gift of tongues was giving for a reason to a fledgling congregation and that reason was long established and so it has been done away with...

Simple!!!

Evidence??

The rubbish people speak today..

Its .all acting,they are forcing it...


And I could remember some1 saying even satan can make many persons spit out utterances...
Even d demons can speak in various tongues...
We gotta be Çareful..

From the bible .we should know what will stand in these last days.....

I have relatives who all speak in tonguÉs and they are just all daft spiritually speaking...

Immoral,smokers,politicians that embessle public funds etc.....

My ex girl freind that also attends winners claims she speaks in tongues...

I just SMH and laugh....

Its all gone bro....

We don't need it,Love is what will remain...

I repeat it LOVE is what will remain..

And I aint seeing that love...

Which means something is wrong somewhere....

Goshen360: ^
I know you understand this verse also perfectly. But we need to establish one thing here. Tongues is the same thing as language right. We need to determine if it is just "tongues" OR "UKNOWN TONGUES" from the translations. We can as well call it "language" OR UNKNOWN LANGUAGE" Let us establish this first.

does not matter if it is known or unknown, it is still a tongue. dig ? it may be alien to man but it is still a tongue. the distinction is redundant. dig ?

I like to add one thing especially for the benefit of ijawkid.


When it says "if there be tongues, they shall cease" ---- it does not necessarily mean that the gift of tongues has ceased for the whole Christian church. It does not necessarily mean that God by the Spirit can still not give a particular person the gift and power of tongues today.

One way of looking at it is this: even if an individual is given the power or gift of tongues, it is temporary anyway and he will not always (continue to) speak in tongues.

So, "tongues shall cease" is not necessarily a dispensational thing; but can be seen as a realistic acceptance that the individual given the gift, at any time in history including today will not necessarily always have it. Even for the people in Acts, it is just recorded that they spoke in tongues the once, we don't know that they repeated it. The only hint we have that it could have been a repeated experience for some is Paul saying "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all." However, even that does not suggest that it continued indefinitely for him.

One interesting thing so far on this thread is that the active participants seem to be agreed that the most prevalent practice today does not match what the Bible says.

A Christian that don't pray in the spirit is missing a lot. It is a way in training our spirit to hear the holy spirit. I have heard of testimonies of Christians that spoke in a language they didn't learn and someone in the congregation testifies that the person was speaking his native language. I don't agree any form of speaking in tongue has ceased.

Enigma: I like to add one thing especially for the benefit of ijawkid.


When it says "if there be tongues, they shall cease" ---- it does not necessarily mean that the gift of tongues has ceased for the whole Christian church. It does not necessarily mean that God by the Spirit can still not give a particular person the gift and power of tongues today.

One way of looking at it is this: even if an individual is given the power or gift of tongues, it is temporary anyway and he will not always (continue to) speak in tongues.

So, "tongues shall cease" is not necessarily a dispensational thing; but can be seen as a realistic acceptance that the individual given the gift, at any time in history including today will not necessarily always have it. Even for the people in Acts, it is just recorded that they spoke in tongues the once, we don't know that they repeated it. The only hint we have that it could have been a repeated experience for some is Paul saying "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all." However, even that does not suggest that it continued indefinitely for him.

One interesting thing so far on this thread is that the active participants seem to be agreed that the most prevalent practice today does not match what the Bible says.

In all d truth is clear as to what we are seeing today....

I want 1 of them to come to my village or any other interior village and deliver Gods message in dialects they'v never spoken nor understood b4.....
Lol

Let them make d speaking in tongues useful as it was back then in d 1st century..

Good morning guys. Can we continue verse by verse please.

Goshen360: Good morning guys. Can we continue verse by verse please.

Please continue but I don't think I will join in each verse; I will chip in contributions now and then.

Enigma: I like to add one thing especially for the benefit of ijawkid.


When it says "if there be tongues, they shall cease" ---- it does not necessarily mean that the gift of tongues has ceased for the whole Christian church. It does not necessarily mean that God by the Spirit can still not give a particular person the gift and power of tongues today.

One way of looking at it is this: even if an individual is given the power or gift of tongues, it is temporary anyway and he will not always (continue to) speak in tongues.

So, "tongues shall cease" is not necessarily a dispensational thing; but can be seen as a realistic acceptance that the individual given the gift, at any time in history including today will not necessarily always have it. Even for the people in Acts, it is just recorded that they spoke in tongues the once, we don't know that they repeated it. The only hint we have that it could have been a repeated experience for some is Paul saying "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all." However, even that does not suggest that it continued indefinitely for him.

One interesting thing so far on this thread is that the active participants seem to be agreed that the most prevalent practice today does not match what the Bible says.

YOU RIGHT. WHAT THEY DOING TODAY IS NOT SPEAKING IN TONGUES. THEY ARE HAVING VOLUNTARILY INDUCED EPILEPTIC FITS AND SPASM OF THEIR BUCCAL CAVITY

Goshen360: Good morning guys. Can we continue verse by verse please.

NO DOUBT NO DOUBT. LET ME EAT FIRST THOUGH. MY BRAIN IS CURRENTLY ON HIATUS MAYNE MY BOYS NUGGETS SMASHED ON THE LAKERS YESTERDAY. KOBE THOUGHT HE WAS IN THE RAIN FOREST YESTERDAY WITH THE WAY 3 POINTERS WAS RAINING ON EM.

Hello friends, I do conducive to greet them warmly.
Buzugee, Bon Apetit!
Goshen360 not you worry about basketball ... every game is revenge ...
I argue that the devil also speaks languages. Not only I say so, but many Christian priests.
I'm trying to explain in this thread, that the fact of speaking in tongues does not mean that the person is transmitting a message from God, can be quite the opposite.
A hug!

Ptolomeus: Hello friends, I do conducive to greet them warmly.
Buzugee, Bon Apetit!
Goshen360 not you worry about basketball ... every game is revenge ...
I argue that the devil also speaks languages. Not only I say so, but many Christian priests.
I'm trying to explain in this thread, that the fact of speaking in tongues does not mean that the person is transmitting a message from God, can be quite the opposite.
A hug!

Bon Apetit my Montevideo brother Ptolomeus. Oh yeah devil can speak in tongue too. i believe T D snakes and creflo dollar and eddie longdong speak in tongues

@ Ptolomeus,
I understand you. This is the mis-use of tongues in the church. When someone speak, the fact that we are not speaking to man but to God, the speaker of tongue is to keep quiet

@ buzugee,
Can we continue?

Goshen360: @ Ptolomeus,
I understand you. This is the mis-use of tongues in the church. When someone speak, the fact that we are not speaking to man but to God, the speaker of tongue is to keep quiet

@ buzugee,
Can we continue?

sup Field marshal. shoot

Okay bro. The question we need to also ask from this verse 2 is, WHAT KIND OF TONGUES OR LANGUAGE IS IT THAT SOMEONE WILL SPEAK TO GOD THAT NO MAN (under heaven) WILL UNDERSTAND HIM EXCEPT GOD? Do you have an idea of this language or tongue?

Goshen360: Okay bro. The question we need to also ask from this verse 2 is, WHAT KIND OF TONGUES OR LANGUAGE IS IT THAT SOMEONE WILL SPEAK TO GOD THAT NO MAN (under heaven) WILL UNDERSTAND HIM EXCEPT GOD? Do you have an idea of this language or tongue?

sounds like heavenly language of some sort, i would assume. seeing as no man understands it. either that or it is eskimo language

^
Stop joking please. lolz. Okay. You are assuming right. Let's do some bible linking now. The language or tongues that were spoken in Acts on the day of Pentecost WAS A KNOWN LANGUAGE/TONGUES, How come Paul is saying here that when a man speaks a language to God, no man understands him except God and there is no language under heaven that no man will not understand, if not you and I , another person somewhere will definitely understand. How come this one mentioned here in speaking to God, no man understands?

Can you figure that out? I will explain my point in a moment anyway.

Goshen360: ^
Stop joking please. lolz. Okay. You are assuming right. Let's do some bible linking now. The language or tongues that were spoken in Acts on the day of Pentecost WAS A KNOWN LANGUAGE/TONGUES, How come Paul is saying here that when a man speaks a language to God, no man understands him except God and there is no language under heaven that no man will not understand, if not you and I , another person somewhere will definitely understand. How come this one mentioned here in speaking to God, no man understands?

Can you figure that out? I will explain my point in a moment anyway.

means it is a language understood only by God. it is not human language. i would presume it is spiritual language