We can stick with this thread or go full throttle into the 1955 Non-aligned nations conference that included most of the so-called 3rd World countries, but the facts must not be lost in translation; China's might has eclipsed those of other 1st World nations(Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand, etc) and even threatening that of the US, and you still want to classify it as a 3rd World?

Most people and US governmental agencies that have a good understanding of Chinese capabilities do not regard as 3rd World in any way.

@wendymanda,

Don't waste your time with naijaking1. He is a typical Mr-Know-It-All as you stated and this is not the first time he will be making a wrong statement and hoping that it will be accepted as a statement of fact.

To him, this issue is now about China's rapid development and/or what most of the people in the US think about China as if US is the world.

@naijaking1,

Can you define a 3rd world country? If yes, let's have it. If no, then shut the hell up.

Myself, I was talking about privatization. In any case, PHCN has already been privatised. ESKOM is running things.

I think we had a power station in Lagos . . . cant recall where exactly . . . using thermal energy. The power minister was on a visit there recently. Hopefully it will be rehabilitated.

whereabouts in Lagos are you talking about?

there is an old thermal plant at Ijora, long been decommissioned

There is the Egbin Thermal station, on the outskirts of Lagos to the East, largest plant in the country at ~1300MW, but dogged by poor gas supply issues, ditto the 190MW AES Barges (formerly Enron) which are also at Egbin.

Chevron has plans to build a power station in Lagos, preliminary work has started on that.

We meed massive investments, even with the quantum of power that SA has, ESKOM is investing close to $30 b in the next 5-10 years to increase power! And some people feel a couple of plants for $2b will solve the problem overnight.

Conservation is good, but like someone said. . .conserving something that is grossly inadequate will not make the desired difference, power generation is abysmally low in Nigeria - there is more electricity per capita in the Gaza Strip and Iraq than Nigeria. . .and we are not at war.

Yeh its the one in Egbin. One of the issues we have is our dependence on only one source and our poor management. I think we should use a lot of sources like I mentioned and a PPP is in order too to help our ever ailing power system.

The amount of dollars needed may be too much of load on the govt alone. I think we are going to do a PPP in railway system . . . china's proposal was cancelled . . . we can do thesame in the power sector

PPP is being considered, but there are lots of hurdles in the way

AGIP built the Okpai plant, and are not too enthusiastic to expand it to the 960MW as planned due to some pricing issues, the other IPPs have some similar problems, some linked to tariffs which are too low to be economical.

The main problem right now, however, is the militancy in the Delta. Any sustained energy generation in Nigeria will have to come from gas for the most part - its the cheapest and most abundant resource we have.

Yes, there's coal in Kogi and the S/E states, but its much dirtier, pollutes much more and takes longer to build. There is a consideration underway for the Chinese to build 5,000MW generating facilities from coal, but I envisage that taking at least 5 years to come on stream.

The government needs to sort out the ND problems as quickly as possible - doing that frees up the abundant gas for power generation, while at the same time increasing hydro generation and going into coal generation as well.

debosky:

Conservation is good, but like someone said. . .conserving something that is grossly inadequate will not make the desired difference, power generation is abysmally low in Nigeria - there is more electricity per capita in the Gaza Strip and Iraq than Nigeria. . .and we are not at war.

On the contrary you conserve something to save cost, minimize wastage or to manage what is available due to limited supply.

and this are the same people berating the presidency for keeping a foreign reserve? The same people are angling that we conserve electricity supply that we are lucky to recieve for a few hrs each week?

Na wa for naija people!

Most people and US governmental agencies that have a good understanding of Chinese capabilities do not regard as 3rd World in any way.

Let's forget what the Chinese call themselves because America the Great has spoken. Even though American's regard China as a 3rd World. But it's fine for you to live in your own world. Please don't embarrass yourself beyond this forum. It's better to look stupid behind a computer screen than when other people are actually around.

Most people and US governmental agencies that have a good understanding of Chinese capabilities do not regard as 3rd World in any way.

Abi,na the same Chinese people wey dey wash up on the coast dead,like that dead whale at Bar Beach.

wendymanda:

Let's forget what the Chinese call themselves because America the Great has spoken. Even though American's regard China as a 3rd World. But it's fine for you to live in your own world. Please don't embarrass yourself beyond this forum. It's better to look stupid behind a computer screen than when other people are actually around.

As predicted, we are going to change the topic to: Is China a 3rd World country?

Before we do that, let's not forget the context of this diversion, and that was your lumping of Nigeria and China as 3rd World countries.

Everybody knows the role of China and India in forming the non-aligned nation after the WWII. Nigeria and other small countries signed on as members, but that's where the comparison ends.

If China is a 3rd World country, then Nigeria must be a '9th World' country in terms of technology, develoment and power supply.

While Nigeria can barely crank out 4500MW of electricity, China has almost completed its 3 Gorges Dam capable of producing 225,500 MW.

If comparing Nigeria with China inflates your ego, go ahead, but the reality differs.

naijaking1:

While Nigeria can barely crank out 4500MW of electricity, China has almost completed its 3 Gorges Dam capable of producing 225,500 MW.

All these power plants China is building,when it can simply conserve energy.One Energy lore is that China is building a coal power station every week.

I saw this other story-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6769743.stm

China is now building about two power stations every week,

Afam,
like i said earlier on, we must have this power supply before we start thinking about conserving it.
there is no power supply in nigeria and that is the issue.
assuming everybody in nig has 2wts bulbs without other appliancies in their houses, can there be light when nepa is off.
in my village, it is a common experience that we used to have quarter current then which cannot serve the bulbs talkless of other things so how can one manage in such situation.
let there be light and once the officials are not corrupt, everybody will be forced by monthly bills to shape their useage.
who will be interested in managing power supply when you pay the same amount wether u use it or not because their is no computerized billing systems of which those who are connected to the nepa officials will surelly use the services only to end up paying little or nothing at the end of the day.

In fact China is even demolishing some power plants they have at the moment and building up massive and gigantic nuclear, hydropower plants!

These guys are incredible!

http://www.china.org.cn/english/environment/230842.htm

As predicted, we are going to change the topic to: Is China a 3rd World country?

Before we do that, let's not forget the context of this diversion, and that was your lumping of Nigeria and China as 3rd World countries.

Everybody knows the role of China and India in forming the non-aligned nation after the WWII. Nigeria and other small countries signed on as members, but that's where the comparison ends.

If China is a 3rd World country, then Nigeria must be a '9th World' country in terms of technology, develoment and power supply.

While Nigeria can barely crank out 4500MW of electricity, China has almost completed its 3 Gorges Dam capable of producing 225,500 MW.

If comparing Nigeria with China inflates your ego, go ahead, but the reality differs.

Yes, mh ego is inflated by the fact that Nigeria is a 3rd world. If I can remember you were the one that diverted to correct a correct statment with a wrong one. Just because China has more technology does not change the fact that its a 3rd World country. It just makes it a better one that Nigeria. Making up things and calling it facts inflated your ego then go ahead and live in your bliss.

There is a general 'un-organization' in the energy sector (as with every sector called nigeria)
although the idea to promote use of energy saving technology is noble, the point is there is no energy to even save.
the town planning for example in lagos is completely warped, there is pratically no clear seperation btw industrial, commercial and residential districts.
this is a major drawback for enegry distribution for very obviouse reasons. so while my good friend works hard conserving energy, his nextdoor neighbour is busy sucking up the available energy with his heavy duty printing machine or some industrial equipment, all this within an epileptic power supply system.

The way forward first is to completely fragmentise (we call it deregulation) the energy sector.
power generation distinct from distribution.
the next thing is for town planners to survey their cities and determine the power requirements and enact or implement laws regarding power utilization.
I believe we need to be told what to have (especially for residences) and what not to have. (e.g can we have industrial mixers, printing machines, etc in our garages "and still try to use energy saving technologies"

wendymanda:

Yes, mh ego is inflated by the fact that Nigeria is a 3rd world. If I can remember you were the one that diverted to correct a correct statment with a wrong one. Just because China has more technology does not change the fact that its a 3rd World country. It just makes it a better one that Nigeria. Making up things and calling it facts inflated your ego then go ahead and live in your bliss.

Once again, no need to change the topic.

I would not come down to your level and attack your personality, or even your ego; inflated or deflated.

There is a serious discussion going on here about improving Nigeria's power supply, not your personality or mine.

At least somebody in naija goverment has more common sense than AFAM.

Improving generation and transmission is the first solution to our power problems, not conserving what we don't have.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=95937

The amount voted may be inadequate, mismanaged, or stolen outright, but the thought is in the right direction.

naijaking1:

At least somebody in naija goverment has more common sense than AFAM.

Improving generation and transmission is the first solution to our power problems, not conserving what we don't have.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=95937

The amount voted may be inadequate, mismanaged, or stolen outright, but the thought is in the right direction.

For someone talking about not attacking personalities the first statement summarizes your warped sense of reasoning.

Now that you have been exposed as a habitual liar on China not being a 3rd world country you are beginning to look for a way out.

Bloody liar, next time think before you start using your hands to type anything.

@topic,

No one is here to force anyone to agree with anything so people should stop getting worked up over nothing.

I wrote an article on something I know that is already helping a lot of people save costs as regards power.

As long as there are people that find the idea ok and are benefiting from it I am ok.

For those that believe that there is no power not to talk about conservation go ahead, you are entitled to your opinions but please don't force me to agree with them and don't abuse me for not agreeing with them.

It is this idea of trying to convince people at all cost that leads to unnecessary frustrations which ultimately results to insulting others.

So, believe what you want to believe but allow me to hold my own beliefs too.

Once again, no need to change the topic.

How am I changing the topic just because you know your wrong

I would not come down to your level and attack your personality, or even your ego; inflated or deflated.

Come down to my level. Please give me a break. There you go again, mistaking up for down.

There is a serious discussion going on here about improving Nigeria's power supply, not your personality or mine.
I was discussing my take when you decided to interject you nonesense. Now that you've realized how stupid you look you want to pin the blame on me

wendymanda:

There is a serious discussion going on here about improving Nigeria's power supply, not your personality or mine.
I was discussing my take when you decided to interject you nonesense. Now that you've realized how stupid you look you want to pin the blame on me

The average Nigerian will rather go to war than accept his/her mistakes and the unfortunate thing is that those that are usually wrong are the ones that will want everyone to believe they know what they are talking about.

Rather than lick his wounds for making a fool of himself he has chosen to blame everyone but himself for his outright stupidity.

Afam:

For someone talking about not attacking personalities the first statement summarizes your warped sense of reasoning.

Now that you have been exposed as a habitual liar on China not being a 3rd world country you are beginning to look for a way out.

Bloody liar, next time think before you start using your hands to type anything.

Attacking personalities is your stock in trade, I do not know any time you don't feel you're at war with somebody.

Go to the last page, you'll see your unwarranted personal attack on me, not that it boardered me or anything, but as a diagnostic tool, I would recommend that you look back, look at the mirrow, and look at your persona.

More than 80% of nairalanders have very strong negative opinion about you, but I thought you were simply misunderstood.

Now I know that you are a pathologic case, you really need help.

Please go take your medicine.

wendymanda:

How am I changing the topic just because you know your wrong

Come down to my level. Please give me a break. There you go again, mistaking up for down.

There is a serious discussion going on here about improving Nigeria's power supply, not your personality or mine.
I was discussing my take when you decided to interject you nonesense. Now that you've realized how stupid you look you want to pin the blame on me

To the extent that I realize that you felt that I interjected in your discussion, I apologize. No personal harm intended.

Happy Thanksgiving!

naijaking1:

Attacking personalities is your stock in trade, I do not know any time you don't feel you're at war with somebody.

Go to the last page, you'll see your unwarranted personal attack on me, not that it boardered me or anything, but as a diagnostic tool, I would recommend that you look back, look at the mirrow, and look at your persona.

More than 80% of nairalanders have very strong negative opinion about you, but I thought you were simply misunderstood.

Now I know that you are a pathologic case, you really need help.

Please go take your medicine.

You are sinking deeper and deeper into the hole you dug for yourself.

Even 100% of users of this forum may have negative opinion about me (I never knew you conducted a poll) but not a single person can state that I have insulted him or her on this forum unless I am responding in kind to insult directed at my person (no apologies for that and will continue to tow that line).

And the hypocrisy is coming to light, so it took my responding in kind to your insults for you to change your view from "being misunderstood" to "a pathologic case"? Wonderful. So, if I had not bothered to reply your insults in kind you would have still believed that I was being misunderstood abi? You are pathetic and disgusting my friend.

But as usual, it is the same person that will insult that will turn around and complain about insults when the person is responded to in kind.

Sorry, I do not need to go to any page to see the unwarranted attack on you because I am certain it was a response to yours. This is a way of life for me, I never insult people, whether big or small, poor or rich, I respect people regardless of age, race, gender or status.

So, your lie won't work here, on the contrary I will advice you to go and check your posts and if you have any respect for truth you will see where you introduced the insults.

Remember, those who constantly preach peace may be the most ready for war so do not mistake one's simplicity for stupidity.

Talking about China. . .

@naijaking1

Here's a quote from that link you supplied:

China, has always been considered part of the Third World, although it is industrializing, has nuclear weapons, and has urban centers of intense development. In general, Latin America, Mexico, Africa, and most of Asia are still considered Third World.

Afam:

You are sinking deeper and deeper into the hole you dug for yourself.

Even 100% of users of this forum may have negative opinion about me (I never knew you conducted a poll) but not a single person can state that I have insulted him or her on this forum unless I am responding in kind to insult directed at my person (no apologies for that and will continue to tow that line).

And the hypocrisy is coming to light, so it took my responding in kind to your insults for you to change your view from "being misunderstood" to "a pathologic case"? Wonderful. So, if I had not bothered to reply your insults in kind you would have still believed that I was being misunderstood abi? You are pathetic and disgusting my friend.

But as usual, it is the same person that will insult that will turn around and complain about insults when the person is responded to in kind.

Sorry, I do not need to go to any page to see the unwarranted attack on you because I am certain it was a response to yours. This is a way of life for me, I never insult people, whether big or small, poor or rich, I respect people regardless of age, race, gender or status.

So, your lie won't work here, on the contrary I will advice you to go and check your posts and if you have any respect for truth you will see where you introduced the insults.

Remember, those who constantly preach peace may be the most ready for war so do not mistake one's simplicity for stupidity.

Remember what a positive initial response you recieved for this article; from me and others?

Unfortunately, when majority of the opinion began to lean toward the conclusion that one can only conserve what he has, you simply lost it, and began going personal against people who genuinely disagreed with you.

If you don't have the capacity to realize when you are insulting the people debating an issue with you, then that is another issue.

Most people like me come to this forum to have fun, relax, exchange ideas, but definitely not to be abused.
If you're hurting people and you don't even realize it, then you must take steps to address the issue on your own.

Your previous experience with people in different threads seem to be the over riding influence on how you conduct yourself in every new topic, but it should not be so.

Every new topic should be an opportunity to agree/disagree, learn new things, and move on, but to you, it's always another opportunity to settle some long forgotten scores- you're probably not the only one guilty of this practice, but you seem to have elevated it to an art form.

Anybody that doubts or wonders why and how I draw my conclusion about you should simply go back to page 1 of this thread and see what I'm talking about.

In the past, I had wondered why a group of 4-5 nairalanders would 'gang-up' against you to the extent of not participating in any thread that bears your name. I told them how wrong it was to annihilate an opposing view, believing that everybody(including you) had a right to make his views known.

For not respecting an opposing view, and trying to change the topic of your own thread simply because you see an opportunity to haul insults at someone who previously disagreed with you, I say that you are no better than those guys who wanted to avoid you like a plague.

Maybe you're an intellectual plague pretending to be open to new ideas, time will tell.

Purist:

Talking about China. . .

@naijaking1

Here's a quote from that link you supplied:

You must also have missed this part of the report about who is or is not part of the 3rd World, by the same article:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/General/ThirdWorld_def.html


Third World, the technologically less advanced, or developing, nations of Asia, Africa, and Latin America, generally characterized as poor, having economies distorted by their dependence on the export of primary products to the developed countries in return for finished products. These nations also tend to have high rates of illiteracy, disease, and population growth and unstable governments. The term Third World was originally intended to distinguish the nonaligned nations that gained independence from colonial rule beginning after World War II from the Western nations and from those that formed the former Eastern bloc, and sometimes more specifically from the United States and from the former Soviet Union (the first and second worlds, respectively). For the most part the term has not included China. Politically, the Third World emerged at the Bandung Conference (1955), which resulted in the establishment of the Nonaligned Movement. Numerically, the Third World dominates the United Nations, but the group is diverse culturally and increasingly economically, and its unity is only hypothetical. The oil-rich nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Libya, and the newly emerged industrial states, such as Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore, have little in common with desperately poor nations, such as Haiti, Chad, and Afghanistan.

naijaking1:

Remember what a positive initial response you recieved for this article; from me and others?

Unfortunately, when majority of the opinion began to lean toward the conclusion that one can only conserve what he has, you simply lost it, and began going personal against people who genuinely disagreed with you.

If you don't have the capacity to realize when you are insulting the people debating an issue with you, then that is another issue.

Most people like me come to this forum to have fun, relax, exchange ideas, but definitely not to be abused.
If you're hurting people and you don't even realize it, then you must take steps to address the issue on your own.

Your previous experience with people in different threads seem to be the over riding influence on how you conduct yourself in every new topic, but it should not be so.

Every new topic should be an opportunity to agree/disagree, learn new things, and move on, but to you, it's always another opportunity to settle some long forgotten scores- you're probably not the only one guilty of this practice, but you seem to have elevated it to an art form.

Anybody that doubts or wonders why and how I draw my conclusion about you should simply go back to page 1 of this thread and see what I'm talking about.

In the past, I had wondered why a group of 4-5 nairalanders would 'gang-up' against you to the extent of not participating in any thread that bears your name. I told them how wrong it was to annihilate an opposing view, believing that everybody(including you) had a right to make his views known.

For not respecting an opposing view, and trying to change the topic of your own thread simply because you see an opportunity to haul insults at someone who previously disagreed with you, I say that you are no better than those guys who wanted to avoid you like a plague.

Maybe you're an intellectual plague pretending to be open to new ideas, time will tell.

Thanks for the lecture but I advice you practice what you preach.

I hate people who distort facts to score cheap points.

On this forum I have seen people like you come and go and your style is usually the same - insult people that disagree with you and when responded to in kind begin to complain and lie about who started the insults.

Not a single person on this forum can state that I insulted him or her for having opposing views on any issue.

But a lot of people can state that I have responded to their insults in kind and I will continue to do so because it is my right.

So, it is in your own best interest to stick to issues if you want to or insult people if you fancy that, but just remember that there are people that believe that people should be given as much as they are willing to give others, this works like magic as you noticed concerning some people that avoid threads with Afam because I will effortlessly return your insults without blinking, get that straight.

In conclusion, I relate well with people either as friends or as foes so it really doesn't matter how you come across.

Unless you are blind you would have noticed that there are people that I always disagree with on this forum without such disagreements leading to insults. I respect such people, not people like you that think you have a right to insult people and when responded to in kind you start to complain and lie about what you started.

This is a discussion forum where issues are meant to be discussed not a social networking site where people simply come to make friends, chat or gossip.

So, focus on issues and you will be just fine or focus on Afam you will be just fine too only that you will get as much as you give or just join the gang.

My complete response on this topic when a lot of people maintained that there is no power in Nigeria and hence you cannot conserve energy is reproduced below.

Afam (m)
Lagos, Nigeria
Posts: 2494
nnajiafam
Online Online


Re: Nigeria Power Problem - Why Energy Conservation Is A Must
« #63 on: November 18, 2007, 07:33 AM »
Modify message
For those that see power at all conserve.

For those that don't see power at all (like your folks in Enugu) wait for generation and transmission.

Case closed. I guess this is simple enough.

Unless of course you are pissed off that I did not agree with you that there is no power in Nigeria.

Afam with his un-resolved issues.

Afam, please get in touch with me on 08064476759. I need to discuss with u the possibility of using ur articles in a new energy magazine coming up VERY SOON! And to also discuss the possibility of ur being a regular columnist.
Yemi