edicolove: There is a simple question above begging for an answer.

Was Abdul Mutalab, the underwear plane bomber motivated by poverty?

I told you all there are agents of BH on the prowl on NL and around many internet sites like saharareporters.com. This is very real.

edicolove:

I am very very very proud of the things I learn from my pastor and I can boldly and openly share it with you. I can even paste the text of his message on this forum. But can you do the same? Can you post for us all to read what those Imams are teaching you in the mosque? Since you were born, how many christian suicide bombers have you seen or heard of? That's right, you have no answer. Keep fooling youself there. David Mark has warned you lot. If you like don't listen, but when your cup gets full, you will get the message eventually!

maasoap: That's where you christians usually get perception about Muslims wrong. There is little or no teachings in most of the mosques. Many of you believe in hearsay because if you even had opportunity to listen to Islamic sermon, you wouldn't want to hear it. Why? Because you have been programmed from the childhood into believing that Islam is evil. You even asked how christian suicide bombers have heard of but if we mention now, the next arguement will be comparison.

Beaf!:
'Mark to Northern Leaders'
Mark is a Useless f00l. So he is a 'southern leader' talking to 'northern leaders'. It is utterances like this that make me loose interest in the one nigeria $hit! Besides, is Mark not from the Middlebelt?

Mr. Mark is that not what you, GEJ, and all the 'southern leaders' ever wanted? The same reason you all have been reluctant to go after the sponsors and busy sending JTF to kill the foot-soldiers while the sponsors keep on recruiting more bombers/foot-soldiers for you to kill?

edicolove:

You are obviously one of those Nigerians who sit somewhere in agege or in malaysia and have no clue of how Nigeria works. For you to say David mark can call Almajiris together? You have just exposed yourself. SMH!

maasoap: Mark! Mark!! Mark!!! Don't mock Islam. Don't cause trouble for yourself. You're not a Muslim, don't address the faith you nothing about just to score a cheap point. Feel free to condemn Boko activities but don't condemn Islam in whatever form. You're a leader and you really need to stay away from making reckless statement like this.

edicolove:

I lived next to a mosque for over four years in lagos. I know what they preach in the mosque. They insult jews all day long. They keep preaching that boko haram is not the problem. They say America and Israel is behind the bombing. They never condemn Boko Aram or any other act of terrorism around the world. If they can be that way in Lagos, then I can tell you they are far worse in the North. Have you not noticed that every major attck on Christians start after friday jumat service? Please spare us the stories. Silence means consent. I don't hear general condemnation coming from muslims. Not buhari, not tinubu, ibb, gusau, and so on. So don't tell me stories. And please, there are no christian suicide bombers. You aint fooling anyone with that bile. It is a terrible sin to take your life as a christian.

paddy_lo: Mark To Northern Leaders: Boko Haram May Break Nigeria

25/06/2012 14:15:00 WRITTEN BY EMMA UCHE, IN UYO
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R-L; PRESIDENT GOODLUCK JONATHAN, PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, SEN. DAVID MARK, DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, SEN. IKE EKWEREMADU WHILE BEHIND IS SEN. UDOMA EGBA DURING THE OPENING OF THE SENATE 2012 RETREAT IN UYO, AKWA IBOM STATE. JUNE 25, 2012

… Says Religious Fundamentalism, Not Poverty Responsible For Boko Haram Crisis

UYO, June 25, (THEWILL) - President of the Senate, David Mark on Monday sounded a strong warning to Northern Leaders to check the rising violent activities of the deadly fundamentalists group Boko Haram, saying its activities could lead to the nation’s disintegration.

Mark, who made the remark at the Senate Retreat in Uyo, Akwa Ibom State, also declared that the northern leaders’ code of silence on the issue in the face of the Boko Haram’s continuous violence shows that the leaders are as guilty as the perpetrators of the mayhem.

“If the elders in the North cannot speak out and stop this menace let them tell us. Let them come out and say so boldly, because the belief out there is that some elders know about these people and decide to keep quite. If care is not taking, the way things are going, if the Boko Haram menace is not halted, it can lead to break up of Nigeria. Because there is an extent to which the people can take it,” Mark stated.

Mark, who also debunked often-touted insinuations that poverty is the root cause of the crisis said, “It is all about religious fundamentalism and ideology.

“Poverty is not the cause, otherwise if every poor person decides to carry arms then Nigeria will seize to exist. So if people talk about poverty and hunger as the cause of the Boko Haram menace I say no.”

The Senate President further added that bombing of churches almost every Sunday and killing of innocent Christian worshippers has stretched the patience of the people to the limit; such that the leaders are finding it increasingly difficult to persuade their followers not to seek retaliation. “There is limit to human endurance,” he chipped.

Nonetheless, Mark cautioned Christians on the danger of retaliation saying, that doing so means that they (Boko Haram) have succeeded in achieving their target. “Leave vengeance to God”, he appealed.

“I think it is time we educate the suicide bombers in the North that it is a wrong belief that killing innocent people would automatically take you to heaven where they would inherit 17 virgins. Of course it would be an uphill task for one person to handle 17 virgins,” he contended.

He said religious leaders and preachers should desist from indoctrinating their adherents into suicide bombings, adding that government should think seriously on issuing licenses to preachers as a way of checkmating the evil ones among them.

Mark also called on government to seek international collaboration with its neighbours as well as Western countries on ways to tackle and uproot the Boko Haram sect.

While declaring open the retreat the 2011 Senate Retreat taking place at the Ibom Meridien and Golf Resort, the Senate President attributed the emergence and upsurge of terrorist activities in the country to some “disgruntled and over-ambitious politicians.”

Also addressing senators at the retreat tagged “The National Assembly and National Security: Securing the Future for Development”, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan noted with sadness that unguarded remarks and statements by ‘do-or-die’ politicians had led to destruction of several lives and properties in the northern parts of the country.

President Jonathan warned such politicians to stop promoting ethnic and religious politics adding that national security should not be sacrificed on the altar of partisan politics.

He called for joint collaboration between the executive, legislature and judiciary arms of government on the need to review and strengthen existing laws on terrorism to reduce the activities of the Sect.

Meanwhile, host governor, Godswill Akpabio while welcoming the participants described the retreat, as a divinely arranged coming at a time Nigeria is experiencing security challenges.

Akpabio said that a strong union between the executive, legislature and Judiciary was capable of solving the Boko Haram problem.

According to the Governor, “the bombs and the killings would not deter the government of President Goodluck Jonathan from delivering on its mandate of transforming the country.”

curtain: Wats wrong wit dis bitter truth, unless u ar tryin 2 tell us dat boko boys ar not fightin 4 a reward in heaven, mark knws nd respects dier convoluted minded course, dats y he has 2 use dsame belief 2 preach 2 dem since their clerics hav become economical wit d truth, he sees no sense in killin d innocents as dey do. i guess wats itching u is dat he reduced the number of d virgins to 17 wen u pland 2 swim in d ocean of sex wit 72 virgin..... Can evn an insult quantify d live dats lost in
d name of religion? To hell wit religion. ARRANT NONSENSE.

lacasa: Well, david mark has given his opinion on the matter anϑ i wld say he has chosen τ̅o take the easy way, instead of the real hard truth abt boko-haram.

if he thinks bokoharam is purely a religious issue then, i think our senate president is not being true τ̅o himself anϑ Nigerians as a whole.

what fuels violence the fastest in any society is first of all "Poverty anϑ Unemployment". Without this, i doubt even if there were radical preachers anϑ financial sponsors for committing suicide bombings, it wldnt be †ђªt easy to find the people τ̅o carry these bombs anϑ commit suicide bombimgs.

if tђere wasn't an alarming rate of poverty anϑ unemployment in Nigeria; the north in this case, i dnt think religious fanatists wld be our problem.

Let's not forget, "an idle mind they say is the devil's workshop".

The Senate president is from Benue state which falls under the Northern region (former middle-belt) anϑ part anϑ parcel of the Northern Political Elites.

What i can deduce from his statement is †ђªt if he goes with the reality †ђªt the level of poverty anϑ worrying levels of unemployment in the region is as a failure of good leadership from the same people such as himself who ave been at the top echelon of power, during the IBB regime where he was a governor to a minister of communication anϑ now presently the Senate President.

He has used this stance τ̅o shy away from the fact that if he goes with the fUll "reality" of the situation, it wld be a confession of incompetence anϑ bad leadership on his part as a top northern leader anϑ elite for well over 20 years.

Though, i agree †ђªt the religious leaders need τ̅o be checkmatd on the kind of teachings anϑ radical views †ђªt can give rise τ̅o fanatism in both Islam anϑ Christianity, but the most important anϑ urgent problem is the problem of "Poverty anϑ Education".

i just don't see Ђδω an educated man †ђªt has something doing striving τ̅o develop himself anϑ upgrade hos social standing anϑ †ђªt of his family as we all aspire τ̅o, will fall victim τ̅o radical teachings and go with a bomb τ̅o waste his life anϑ others after enduring the hassles of educating anϑ empowering himself for years, be him a muslim or a xtian.

I for one can't fathom Ђδω.

paddy_lo: Mark To Northern Leaders: Boko Haram May Break Nigeria

25/06/2012 14:15:00 WRITTEN BY EMMA UCHE, IN UYO
Font size: Decrease font Enlarge font
image
[img]http://thewillnigeria.com/thumbnail.php?file=MARKUO_320638196.jpg&size=article_medium[/img]
R-L; PRESIDENT GOODLUCK JONATHAN, PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, SEN. DAVID MARK, DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, SEN. IKE EKWEREMADU WHILE BEHIND IS SEN. UDOMA EGBA DURING THE OPENING OF THE SENATE 2012 RETREAT IN UYO, AKWA IBOM STATE. JUNE 25, 2012

… Says Religious Fundamentalism, Not Poverty Responsible For Boko Haram Crisis

UYO, June 25, (THEWILL) - President of the Senate, David Mark on Monday sounded a strong warning to Northern Leaders to check the rising violent activities of the deadly fundamentalists group Boko Haram, saying its activities could lead to the nation’s disintegration.

Mark, who made the remark at the Senate Retreat in Uyo, Akwa Ibom State, also declared that the northern leaders’ code of silence on the issue in the face of the Boko Haram’s continuous violence shows that the leaders are as guilty as the perpetrators of the mayhem.

“If the elders in the North cannot speak out and stop this menace let them tell us. Let them come out and say so boldly, because the belief out there is that some elders know about these people and decide to keep quite. If care is not taking, the way things are going, if the Boko Haram menace is not halted, it can lead to break up of Nigeria. Because there is an extent to which the people can take it,” Mark stated.

Mark, who also debunked often-touted insinuations that poverty is the root cause of the crisis said, “It is all about religious fundamentalism and ideology.

“Poverty is not the cause, otherwise if every poor person decides to carry arms then Nigeria will seize to exist. So if people talk about poverty and hunger as the cause of the Boko Haram menace I say no.”

The Senate President further added that bombing of churches almost every Sunday and killing of innocent Christian worshippers has stretched the patience of the people to the limit; such that the leaders are finding it increasingly difficult to persuade their followers not to seek retaliation. “There is limit to human endurance,” he chipped.

Nonetheless, Mark cautioned Christians on the danger of retaliation saying, that doing so means that they (Boko Haram) have succeeded in achieving their target. “Leave vengeance to God”, he appealed.

“I think it is time we educate the suicide bombers in the North that it is a wrong belief that killing innocent people would automatically take you to heaven where they would inherit 17 virgins. Of course it would be an uphill task for one person to handle 17 virgins,” he contended.

He said religious leaders and preachers should desist from indoctrinating their adherents into suicide bombings, adding that government should think seriously on issuing licenses to preachers as a way of checkmating the evil ones among them.

Mark also called on government to seek international collaboration with its neighbours as well as Western countries on ways to tackle and uproot the Boko Haram sect.

While declaring open the retreat the 2011 Senate Retreat taking place at the Ibom Meridien and Golf Resort, the Senate President attributed the emergence and upsurge of terrorist activities in the country to some “disgruntled and over-ambitious politicians.”

Also addressing senators at the retreat tagged “The National Assembly and National Security: Securing the Future for Development”, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan noted with sadness that unguarded remarks and statements by ‘do-or-die’ politicians had led to destruction of several lives and properties in the northern parts of the country.

President Jonathan warned such politicians to stop promoting ethnic and religious politics adding that national security should not be sacrificed on the altar of partisan politics.

He called for joint collaboration between the executive, legislature and judiciary arms of government on the need to review and strengthen existing laws on terrorism to reduce the activities of the Sect.

Meanwhile, host governor, Godswill Akpabio while welcoming the participants described the retreat, as a divinely arranged coming at a time Nigeria is experiencing security challenges.

Akpabio said that a strong union between the executive, legislature and Judiciary was capable of solving the Boko Haram problem.

According to the Governor, “the bombs and the killings would not deter the government of President Goodluck Jonathan from delivering on its mandate of transforming the country.”

maasoap: May be it is high time you told Seun to start sending details of every single Muslim on nairaland to SSS so that they can put surveillance on us all. Is David Mark not the senate president? Why couldn't he amend our constitution so that any person found guilty of terrorism will given life sentence, at least.

dayo23: well said sir! In addition some of there sponsors are members of the National assembly which u hapen 2 b the president,they are u collegues and I believe u knw dem, do us a favour by atleast exposin them even if is indirectly, dat we will appreciate u!

noiseless: Sorry my dear, but are you trying to pretend that as if your SEUN is no longer a JIHADIST? We all are aware that fact.

maasoap: In that case, I suggest nairaland be closed down because Seun happened to be a "Muslim" going by your words. They continue to talk as if we haven't lost the count on the number of christian Boko Harams that have been captured or even killed by the same church members while attacking churches.

Eziachi:
Who or what is Almajiris?
Trust Nigerian dictatorial rulers, if you don't know or haven't heard about David Mark, you will think that he is a novice foreign visiting lecturer instead a member of ruling elite and number three part of the govt for that matter.

When MEND were flexing their muscles, southern leaders weren't called to speak out and if any of them had dare, that person would had been dead. Boko Haram are ten times more dangerous and daring than MEND and he is calling this unnamed northerner to speak out. What does he mean by speaking it? What is the public paying him for as number three person in government? What has he done himself, instead sitting in far away peaceful Uyo wasting public money in the name of retreat? Why can't they take the first step by daring Boko Haram and take their retreat to Damaturu?

Abdication of responsibility has always been their operational method. Does the people want to hear about 17 virgin joke or do they want a straight forward proactive action by their government and its officials? Whenever Mark and the likes of him, no matter which part they come from showed any sort of concern, it only when the statu of One Nigeria (their milking cow) is at threat.

All the years he spent is enjoying all sorts of political patronage in the army, he was doing so as a northerner. But now the north has lost power, suddenly a line is being drawn and they think all of us are gullible to forget. As number three man, how many of such places Boko Haram had been destroying the peace has he visited to get a fist hand information or how many law has he and his cronies pass to reflect the menacing problem and now he is talking as if he is not part of te governance that suppose to have all the answers.

Eziachi:
Who or what is Almajiris?
Trust Nigerian dictatorial rulers, if you don't know or haven't heard about David Mark, you will think that he is a novice foreign visiting lecturer instead a member of ruling elite and number three part of the govt for that matter.

When MEND were flexing their muscles, southern leaders weren't called to speak out and if any of them had dare, that person would had been dead. Boko Haram are ten times more dangerous and daring than MEND and he is calling this unnamed northerner to speak out. What does he mean by speaking it? What is the public paying him for as number three person in government? What has he done himself, instead sitting in far away peaceful Uyo wasting public money in the name of retreat? Why can't they take the first step by daring Boko Haram and take their retreat to Damaturu?

Abdication of responsibility has always been their operational method. Does the people want to hear about 17 virgin joke or do they want a straight forward proactive action by their government and its officials? Whenever Mark and the likes of him, no matter which part they come from showed any sort of concern, it only when the statu of One Nigeria (their milking cow) is at threat.

All the years he spent is enjoying all sorts of political patronage in the army, he was doing so as a northerner. But now the north has lost power, suddenly a line is being drawn and they think all of us are gullible to forget. As number three man, how many of such places Boko Haram had been destroying the peace has he visited to get a fist hand information or how many law has he and his cronies pass to reflect the menacing problem and now he is talking as if he is not part of te governance that suppose to have all the answers.

Mandelaguy: haaaaaaaa! Don't even go there. Christian boko haram? Abegi,where you hear that one? Show us proof.......una go kill person 4 dis forum o.....hahahahahahahah

lacasa: Well, david mark has given his opinion on the matter anϑ i wld say he has chosen τ̅o take the easy way, instead of the real hard truth abt boko-haram.

if he thinks bokoharam is purely a religious issue then, i think our senate president is not being true τ̅o himself anϑ Nigerians as a whole.

what fuels violence the fastest in any society is first of all "Poverty anϑ Unemployment". Without this, i doubt even if there were radical preachers anϑ financial sponsors for committing suicide bombings, it wldnt be †ђªt easy to find the people τ̅o carry these bombs anϑ commit suicide bombimgs.

if tђere wasn't an alarming rate of poverty anϑ unemployment in Nigeria; the north in this case, i dnt think religious fanatists wld be our problem.

Let's not forget, "an idle mind they say is the devil's workshop".

The Senate president is from Benue state which falls under the Northern region (former middle-belt) anϑ part anϑ parcel of the Northern Political Elites.

What i can deduce from his statement is †ђªt if he goes with the reality †ђªt the level of poverty anϑ worrying levels of unemployment in the region is as a failure of good leadership from the same people such as himself who ave been at the top echelon of power, during the IBB regime where he was a governor to a minister of communication anϑ now presently the Senate President.

He has used this stance τ̅o shy away from the fact that if he goes with the fUll "reality" of the situation, it wld be a confession of incompetence anϑ bad leadership on his part as a top northern leader anϑ elite for well over 20 years.

Though, i agree †ђªt the religious leaders need τ̅o be checkmatd on the kind of teachings anϑ radical views †ђªt can give rise τ̅o fanatism in both Islam anϑ Christianity, but the most important anϑ urgent problem is the problem of "Poverty anϑ Education".

i just don't see Ђδω an educated man †ђªt has something doing striving τ̅o develop himself anϑ upgrade hos social standing anϑ †ђªt of his family as we all aspire τ̅o, will fall victim τ̅o radical teachings and go with a bomb τ̅o waste his life anϑ others after enduring the hassles of educating anϑ empowering himself for years, be him a muslim or a xtian.

I for one can't fathom Ђδω.

Mandelaguy: haaaaaaaa! Don't even go there. Christian boko haram? Abegi,where you hear that one? Show us proof.......una go kill person 4 dis forum o.....hahahahahahahah

No contradiction there. Religion breeds terrorists. Greedy politicians use them. That's so easy to understand, it is amazing how you missed it.

lacasa: Well, david mark has given his opinion on the matter anϑ i wld say he has chosen τ̅o take the easy way, instead of the real hard truth abt boko-haram.

if he thinks bokoharam is purely a religious issue then, i think our senate president is not being true τ̅o himself anϑ Nigerians as a whole.

what fuels violence the fastest in any society is first of all "Poverty anϑ Unemployment". Without this, i doubt even if there were radical preachers anϑ financial sponsors for committing suicide bombings, it wldnt be †ђªt easy to find the people τ̅o carry these bombs anϑ commit suicide bombimgs.

if tђere wasn't an alarming rate of poverty anϑ unemployment in Nigeria; the north in this case, i dnt think religious fanatists wld be our problem.

Let's not forget, "an idle mind they say is the devil's workshop".

The Senate president is from Benue state which falls under the Northern region (former middle-belt) anϑ part anϑ parcel of the Northern Political Elites.

What i can deduce from his statement is †ђªt if he goes with the reality †ђªt the level of poverty anϑ worrying levels of unemployment in the region is as a failure of good leadership from the same people such as himself who ave been at the top echelon of power, during the IBB regime where he was a governor to a minister of communication anϑ now presently the Senate President.

He has used this stance τ̅o shy away from the fact that if he goes with the fUll "reality" of the situation, it wld be a confession of incompetence anϑ bad leadership on his part as a top northern leader anϑ elite for well over 20 years.

Though, i agree †ђªt the religious leaders need τ̅o be checkmatd on the kind of teachings anϑ radical views †ђªt can give rise τ̅o fanatism in both Islam anϑ Christianity, but the most important anϑ urgent problem is the problem of "Poverty anϑ Education".

i just don't see Ђδω an educated man †ђªt has something doing striving τ̅o develop himself anϑ upgrade hos social standing anϑ †ђªt of his family as we all aspire τ̅o, will fall victim τ̅o radical teachings and go with a bomb τ̅o waste his life anϑ others after enduring the hassles of educating anϑ empowering himself for years, be him a muslim or a xtian.

I for one can't fathom Ђδω.

lacasa: Well, david mark has given his opinion on the matter anϑ i wld say he has chosen τ̅o take the easy way, instead of the real hard truth abt boko-haram.

if he thinks bokoharam is purely a religious issue then, i think our senate president is not being true τ̅o himself anϑ Nigerians as a whole.

what fuels violence the fastest in any society is first of all "Poverty anϑ Unemployment". Without this, i doubt even if there were radical preachers anϑ financial sponsors for committing suicide bombings, it wldnt be †ђªt easy to find the people τ̅o carry these bombs anϑ commit suicide bombimgs.

if tђere wasn't an alarming rate of poverty anϑ unemployment in Nigeria; the north in this case, i dnt think religious fanatists wld be our problem.

Let's not forget, "an idle mind they say is the devil's workshop".

The Senate president is from Benue state which falls under the Northern region (former middle-belt) anϑ part anϑ parcel of the Northern Political Elites.

What i can deduce from his statement is †ђªt if he goes with the reality †ђªt the level of poverty anϑ worrying levels of unemployment in the region is as a failure of good leadership from the same people such as himself who ave been at the top echelon of power, during the IBB regime where he was a governor to a minister of communication anϑ now presently the Senate President.

He has used this stance τ̅o shy away from the fact that if he goes with the fUll "reality" of the situation, it wld be a confession of incompetence anϑ bad leadership on his part as a top northern leader anϑ elite for well over 20 years.

Though, i agree †ђªt the religious leaders need τ̅o be checkmatd on the kind of teachings anϑ radical views †ђªt can give rise τ̅o fanatism in both Islam anϑ Christianity, but the most important anϑ urgent problem is the problem of "Poverty anϑ Education".

i just don't see Ђδω an educated man †ђªt has something doing striving τ̅o develop himself anϑ upgrade hos social standing anϑ †ђªt of his family as we all aspire τ̅o, will fall victim τ̅o radical teachings and go with a bomb τ̅o waste his life anϑ others after enduring the hassles of educating anϑ empowering himself for years, be him a muslim or a xtian.

I for one can't fathom Ђδω.

lacasa: Well, david mark has given his opinion on the matter anϑ i wld say he has chosen τ̅o take the easy way, instead of the real hard truth abt boko-haram.

if he thinks bokoharam is purely a religious issue then, i think our senate president is not being true τ̅o himself anϑ Nigerians as a whole.

what fuels violence the fastest in any society is first of all "Poverty anϑ Unemployment". Without this, i doubt even if there were radical preachers anϑ financial sponsors for committing suicide bombings, it wldnt be †ђªt easy to find the people τ̅o carry these bombs anϑ commit suicide bombimgs.

if tђere wasn't an alarming rate of poverty anϑ unemployment in Nigeria; the north in this case, i dnt think religious fanatists wld be our problem.

Let's not forget, "an idle mind they say is the devil's workshop".

The Senate president is from Benue state which falls under the Northern region (former middle-belt) anϑ part anϑ parcel of the Northern Political Elites.

What i can deduce from his statement is †ђªt if he goes with the reality †ђªt the level of poverty anϑ worrying levels of unemployment in the region is as a failure of good leadership from the same people such as himself who ave been at the top echelon of power, during the IBB regime where he was a governor to a minister of communication anϑ now presently the Senate President.

He has used this stance τ̅o shy away from the fact that if he goes with the fUll "reality" of the situation, it wld be a confession of incompetence anϑ bad leadership on his part as a top northern leader anϑ elite for well over 20 years.

Though, i agree †ђªt the religious leaders need τ̅o be checkmatd on the kind of teachings anϑ radical views †ђªt can give rise τ̅o fanatism in both Islam anϑ Christianity, but the most important anϑ urgent problem is the problem of "Poverty anϑ Education".

i just don't see Ђδω an educated man †ђªt has something doing striving τ̅o develop himself anϑ upgrade hos social standing anϑ †ђªt of his family as we all aspire τ̅o, will fall victim τ̅o radical teachings and go with a bomb τ̅o waste his life anϑ others after enduring the hassles of educating anϑ empowering himself for years, be him a muslim or a xtian.

I for one can't fathom Ђδω.