mkmyers45: huh? I dont get it they decieve from the word?

buzugee: the words in the bible is a SPIRIT. the words in the bible is the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LORD AND CHRIST. now the spirit of the lord ( which is the word in the bible ) will only SYNC with the spirit of someone who is a genuine child of God. the holy spirit of the lord syncs with the holy spirit of holy men and as such they understand the word. ROMANS 8 VS 16 The Spirit himself ( which is the word ) bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Now on the basis of peddling the word of God from an organization, that makes you an antichrist. the church as described in the bible is the body of christ because the body of christ houses ( this is the house ) the holy spirit of christ which teaches the whole world, just as our bodys are the temple of the holy spirit and as such our body is the church. you take your body ( the church ) to the highways and byways ( streets ) to convert souls. the temple back in biblical days were just places were the levites did blood sacrifices according to jewish laws. however today, anyone who forms organizations or churches is an antichrist ( which only means you are against the teachings of christ ). scripture says
ACTS 17 VS 24 The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

THE TEMPLE IS YOUR BODY NOT A BUILDING OR AN ORGANIZATION. THOSE ARE DENS OF INIQUITY AND AS SUCH THEIR SPIRIT CANNOT SYNC WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD ( WHICH ARE THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ). AS SUCH THEY WILL ALWAYS PEDDLE FALSEHOODS AND THEIR OWN VAIN OPINIONS. THEY WILL GIVE THEIR OWN PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS

mkmyers45: all words in the bible? How is your own view better? What makes it right?

buzugee: personally i stick with the prophets. some of the bible is history. however the prophesys are pure holy spirit. i stick to books like
job, psalms. proverbs, isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel, on down to malachi and all the new testament. i tend to ignore the chronicles kings samuels etc. geanealogy and history. i read them once but now i stay hard on the prophets and prophesys

Niflheim: @frosbel,they once predicted the end of the world in the 70s but obviously nothing happened.they claim that they are in direct contact with god but sadly,there is no network.

mkmyers45: do you have any links to this claim?

buzugee: personally i stick with the prophets. some of the bible is history. however the prophesys are pure holy spirit. i stick to books like
job, psalms. proverbs, isaiah, jeremiah, ezekiel, on down to malachi and all the new testament. i tend to ignore the chronicles kings samuels etc. geanealogy and history. i read them once but now i stay hard on the prophets and prophesys

true2god: i have vouch not to discus jw issues but i just culdnt stand their blatant falsehood as their light keep brighter and brighter. The truth of today, to a jw, might become false tomorrow in the next edition of watchtower magazine. While attacking the nazi's for persecuting dem in ww2 in almost all their watchtower magazines, for not assistin in the war efort, they neva mention the allied forces persecutin dem as well cos nazis lost the ww2. If d nazis had won, the watchtowr write-up on ww2 incidence would have been the opposite. This is pure hypocricy perfectly crafted to brainwash most jw without questioning. And if u dare question too much u will be disfellowshiped and finally shunned for challengin any wrong watchtower teachin. May God let mature men reason well.

frosbel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Failed_predictions

BARRISTERS: @frosbel,

[size=14pt]"If the prophet speaks in the LORD's name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the LORD did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared."[/size]

[size=14pt]Then are you saying that jonah's fixed prediction of ''fourty days more'' which failed to occur within the fourty days means that jonah has not 'spoken of Gods authority?.
read pls;[/size]
jonah 3:3,4;
3 Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”

[size=14pt]fourty days lapsed,and jonah's prediction within the fixed date never was![/size]

buzugee: i dont doubt that seeing as jehovah is a demon. they teach from a demons word. the letter J only was formed like 500 years ago so christs name was not jehovah. so whomever called jehovah that they are worshipping is some hippy blonde haired white demon

frosbel:


Simple , the answer is in the same verse you quoted but you omitted it.

"Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth." - Jonah 3:3-5

Two things to note here :

1. Jonah ....proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”

2. The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.


Surely this is easy , right.

If the Ninevites remained steadfast in sin and rebellion, in 40 days they would have been destroyed.

Instead, a fast was declared in the entire city and the citizens repented of their wickedness. This is why the judgement which was to happen in '40 days ' time was never carried out, because the people repented.

Let us read the rest of the chapter :

" When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles:Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.” When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. - Jonah 3:6-10


Two things to note here again :

1. When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
2. When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.


If they had not repented , in 40 days Nineveh would have been destroyed.


Also we both agree that after a long period, they went back into their wickedness and were ultimately destroyed, this was the beginning of the end of the Assyrian empire , Nineveh was it's capital.

frosbel:


Simple , the answer is in the same verse you quoted but you omitted it.

"Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth." - Jonah 3:3-5

Two things to note here :

1. Jonah ....proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”

2. The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.


Surely this is easy , right.

If the Ninevites remained steadfast in sin and rebellion, in 40 days they would have been destroyed.

Instead, a fast was declared in the entire city and the citizens repented of their wickedness. This is why the judgement which was to happen in '40 days ' time was never carried out, because the people repented.

Let us read the rest of the chapter :

" When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles:Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.” When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. - Jonah 3:6-10


Two things to note here again :

1. When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
2. When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.


If they had not repented , in 40 days Nineveh would have been destroyed.


Also we both agree that after a long period, they went back into their wickedness and were ultimately destroyed, this was the beginning of the end of the Assyrian empire , Nineveh was it's capital.

1. When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
2. When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.


If they had not repented , in 40 days Nineveh would have been destroyed.

Also we both agree that after a long period, they went back into their wickedness and were ultimately destroyed, this was the beginning of the end of the Assyrian empire , Nineveh was it's capital.

BARRISTERS:

[b]@frosbel



oh!!! so you agreed that the temporary remorse of the ninevites deteriorated again into their sinful ways again,
then there arises a question,

why would an omniscient God (primary Definition: The attribute of God by which God perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future) would not 'keep to a fixed proclamation of fourty days' when he fore-know, or had the future knowledge that nineveh would still delve into same sin they practiced before?

why would he stressed his prophets knowing fully well that he can extend excecution?

how would scholars or critics or historians at that time view jonah's failed execution, dont you feel that it exposes him to ridiculous jesting?.

[size=14pt]remember that its not an issue maybe ninevites had a temporary remorse, but because their remorse or repentance 'is no a condition' in jonahs message from God [/size]which further worsen jonahs case of defence, and was jonah angry?well it depends on who listens to his defences. [/b]

I hope you are not a barrister in real life, you would have lost this case with the nonsense you just posted up there

1,why would an omniscient God (primary Definition: The attribute of God by which God perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future) would not 'keep to a fixed proclamation of fourty days' when he fore-know, or had the future knowledge that nineveh would still delve into same sin they practiced before?

2,why would he (God) stressed his prophet(jonah) knowing fully well that he can extend excecution?

3,how would scholars or critics or historians at that time view jonah's failed execution, dont you feel that it exposes him to ridiculous jesting?.

remember that its not an issue maybe ninevites had a temporary remorse, but because their remorse or repentance 'is no a condition' in jonahs message from God which further worsen jonahs case of defence, and was jonah angry?well it depends on who listens to his defences.

[quote author=BARRISTERS]@frosbel

so answer pls one-by-one;

1,why would an omniscient God (primary Definition: The attribute of God by which God perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future) would not 'keep to a fixed proclamation of fourty days' when he fore-know, or had the future knowledge that nineveh would still delve into same sin they practiced before?

My friend, let us not look at one aspect of God while purposely excluding the rest. God is all-knowing and He is all-powerful as well as merciful and just.
The prophesy for the destruction of Niniveh was Jonah prophesying about what God would do and not God prophesying about something beyond His power.
1. God in his justice was going to punish Niniveh for sins, God in His mercy forgives Niniveh after they repented.

Jonah 3:10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.


2,why would he (God) stressed his prophet(jonah) knowing fully well that he can extend excecution?

2. God stressed Jonah because He wanted to give the Ninivites a fighting chance. This shows God's justice and mercy. If He simply forgave them without penance, then He would be unjust. On the other hand if He simply destroyed them with no warning, He would be unmerciful.

3,how would scholars or critics or historians at that time view jonah's failed execution, dont you feel that it exposes him to ridiculous jesting?.

3. If scholars and critics could see the bigger picture, then they would see that Jonah was not a false prophet. One can't properly criticize an occurrence that one doesn't fully understand

remember that its not an issue maybe ninevites had a temporary remorse, but because their remorse or repentance 'is no a condition' in jonahs message from God which further worsen jonahs case of defence, and was jonah angry?well it depends on who listens to his defences.
You are neglecting something here: In the case of Jonah and Niniveh, The nature of God is already taken as a given, or else how would the Ninivites know exactly who to to repent to or that they are even required to repent in the first place?

thehomer:
There is nothing strange about this. The Catholic Church actually does something very similar. They have the Pope who is considered infallible etc. At least, the Jehovah's Witnesses defer to a group and not just one unelected man.

MyJoe:
Catholic folk defers to one unelected elderly man. The Witnesses defer to a group of 12 or so men - elderly, unelected, all-male, nearly all-white. The Catholics are expected to agree with everything the Pope says, but this is not so rigid.

MyJoe:
The Witnesses are expected to agree with everything the group of 12 says - this is very rigid. So while two Catholics may disagree with a papal declaration and discuss it among themselves, it is unheard-of for two Witnesses to voice out dissent about any official pronouncement of the church to each other. You are expected to agree completely in all things all the time. Very similar. Quite different.

1,why would an omniscient God (primary Definition: The attribute of God by which God perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future) would not 'keep to a fixed proclamation of fourty days' when he fore-know, or had the future knowledge that nineveh would still delve into same sin they practiced before?

2,why would he (God) stressed his prophet(jonah) knowing fully well that he can extend excecution?

3,how would scholars or critics or historians at that time view jonah's failed execution, dont you feel that it exposes him to ridiculous jesting?.

thehomer:
Says who? Haven't you heard of the battle between the American nuns and the bishops? Guess whose side the bishops are on.

Catholics are supposed to agree with everything the pope says.

The fact that some of them don't is a testament to their own elevation of independent thinking.

Your claim that Jehovah's Witnesses cannot dissent to each other I think requires you to have access to more information than you can justify.

MyJoe:
I think you need to make more effort to understand people's viewpoint before replying them. My post was meant to be read in whole. What you said about the nuns and the bishops ought to help get my point across to you. I wasn't "debating" what you said or anything of the sort. I just made a clarification. Do you know what would happen to those nuns if they were Witnesses?

MyJoe:
Read my post again. I said so.

MyJoe:
Yes. And "elevation of independent thinking" is not a rare thing among Catholics, or, even other Christians. There is a large minority of Christians, perhaps not a minority, who don't do "follow-follow" - it is not hard to notice this. Once, at the office, a Pentecostal colleague told me something her leader, Enoch Adeboye said, and how wrong she thought it was. She then wondered how anyone could be foolish enough to take the words of an old man on that particular matter. Such "elevation of independent thinking" is not a commodity among the Witnesses, as the Witness is told that God does not teach an individual. That, sir, was my point. One of the major problems with the Witnessing thing is that independent thinking is specifically censured. Further, the Witness is psychologically conditioned to think that whatever he is told cannot be questioned. You can ask for clarifications but you can't criticise it. A Witness who feels sure the church has got it wrong would have to keep that to himself. On the chance he finds someone to discuss it with and this gets to local minders this will not be received passively. There will be consequences.

MyJoe:
I do have access to information that you don't. And I can justify it. In any case, there is no claim I have made that you can't verify.

thehomer:
What clarification was that? Saying that one is rigid and the other isn't is not a clarification since dissent isn't allowed in either of those groups.

Sure you did but when you say someone is supposed to agree with what their authorities say but that the authorities aren't rigid, it implies that one doesn't necessarily have to agree with what their authorities say.

It is a well known fact that many groups don't permit self criticism from their members and the Catholic church isn't exempt from this. The fact that some people are independent thinkers doesn't mean that the church actually allows for it.

Do you think that if your colleague mentioned what she said out loud to the church authorities, her views would be welcomed and compared with that of Adeboye?

You don't think that Catholics are psychologically conditioned? Again, the fact that people are able to break free is a testament to them not to the Church because organizations like that do not like dissent.

Since you have access to this information, can you please tell me how you know that Jehovah's Witnesses cannot discuss with each other on issues that they find problematic?

truthislight: @myjoe
The JW, all of them base there teaching on the bible, from the top members down, all of them on the bible. Why will u expect them to argue with each other when they can all verify from the bible that what is said is correctly applied?

The catholic say that God talks to them, and that supper seeds what the bible says, so, it is understandable when their members refuse it owing to their understanding of what the bible says as being diff.
Peace.

MyJoe:
Dissent is TOLERATED in one group. It is not in the other. That is the clarification. Thank you.

MyJoe:
I think your knowledge of the two groups is poor. Do you or do not know of any lay Catholic who faced a panel for voicing out a disagreement with official teaching of the church? Do you or do you not know of any Witness who did?

MyJoe:
The Catholic expects its members to follow its teachings. But it TOLERATES criticism. Get it.

MyJoe:
I hope you know the difference between between going to authorities to ask questions and expressing criticism randomly? If she went to RCCG authorities isn't it logical it would be to ask for clarifications which most religions, JW or RCC, permits?

MyJoe:
The Catholic Church does not like dissent. Right. But it is aware its parishioners criticise it and it TOLERATES these people. Get it. I have read articles and listened to JWs highlight this, that is, the fact that Catholics and other Christians express dissatisfaction with Church teachings and JWs don't.

MyJoe:
Refer to my last post. You can verify this point instead of arguing where no argument exists. HOW I know does not matter. You can challenge WHAT I claim to know if you find it is untrue.